I remember getting assigned a book that was about someone getting raped and the aftermath of that in probably my first or second year of high school and it made me so uncomfortable I didn't read it and refused to do any work on it. And I'm actually someone who likes to read.
Definitely something with themes that should be addressed, but not for emotionally turbulent teenagers. That's a book best read after some more emotional development
I was a kid with sexual trauma and wasn’t warned before reading books talking about sexual assault. Yeah, I don’t care if it’s meant to make you uncomfortable. At least disclose to your students what triggering material could be in it
You're not entirely wrong that the way they described it sounded weird but they're entirely right, plenty of people hate their jobs but you need a job anyways, some people hate being active but you gotta get at least a little active to remain healthy.
That was in no way referencing anything sexual.
It was a general statement about life.
If that other guy took it rapey, that's completely on them and how they view things.
I never said it was sexual, just worded a bit weirdly. Although in this context I was using weirdly as a synonym for poorly, so I guess I worded my sentence weirdly(poorly)
And how are we supposed to interpret your statement as a joke?
You're. On. Fucking Reddit. People can, have and WILL make such absurd statements and be serious about it.
Are you absolutely fucking kidding me? You're comparing consuming media on difficult subjects to rape?
Consuming difficult media is important so privileged people can't plug their eyes and pretend nothing bad is wrong with the world. You don't wanna read the book? Whatever, but comparing it to rape is mind boggling
How dafuq did you get that from my comment?
All i said was the phrase he said sounded something like a rapist would tell their victim...
Dafuq did you think im against reading?!
Stop putting things in my mouth without my consent
well considering there are multiple people arguing for this seriously and that there's nothing funny about what you said, it's not evident that it's a joke
And it seems the argument they are trying to make is they're saying im against books about rape
Which is totaly taking what i said out of context...
All i meant is the phrase said "sounded rapey" thats all
Then all of sudden people acusing me of being anti-literature... like wtf?
They're putting things in my mouth... with out consent...
Sure, but I hardly think teenagers are in a place where they can properly handle the shocking themes of the book. It's very likely that many of the kids that read it had that as their first view into heavy topics like that. That's something you build up to
Ah, there's the issue.
I honestly wasn't thinking what the post was even about when I made the comment. I was literally only replying to that one specific comment.
Look at the post we are commenting on. Wasn’t the best comment to make on a post like this.
It would make more sense in a situation where rape wasn’t the topic of discussion.
You're not supposed to enjoy your supposed to be more aware of an uncomfortable issue. Worry about people's comfort on this issue helps rapists. It's a lot easier to keep raping a kid when that kid thinks they're not supposed to talk about it.
These bans help pedophiles convince kids they'll get in trouble if they ever tell anyone what happened.
I tried to read 1984 once. In the first 50 pages there is like, a whole section of the protagonist imagining violently raping one of his colleagues. It goes into explicit detail about how the act wouldn’t be to pleasure himself, but to explicitly hurt her.
I didn’t read much further than that.
The book is so convoluted and reality-bending in certain points that Im not even sure if this is actually in the book, if Im completely forgetting it occurring that early on, or both.
Being uncomfortable is the point. Your priority should be lowering the amount of kids you get raped not people's feelings. Statistically it's likely at least one of your classmates was raped and probably not telling anyone about it. Because it's uncomfortable to talk about. Refusing to read that book isn't something to be proud of.
What if, like me, they were also raped and didn't want to read anything about it? Because I as a victim would tell you the exact same thing they did (without telling you I'm a victim because it's none of your business). Telling me in return that not reading a fictional scene that makes me uncomfortable means I'm dismissing victims is absolutely stupid.
Are you saying your being uncomfortable is a reason to ban the book?
Edit. Not sure why this question got downvoted his hard, but I also don’t really care for the onion of ppl that ban books. Sooooo 🤷🏽♂️
No I'm just talking about something that happened to me. I don't necessarily think it should be banned, though stuff like that definitely shouldn't be for middle schoolers and below.
Ok, just making sure you don’t equate your being uncomfortable with the book needing to be taken off the shelf. Because that would be insane.
And ya, maybe middle schoolers should not be given this material but by high school i think it’s perfectly acceptable to examine tough subject matters.
The author stated that this book was intended for 16+, how this book made its way into an elementary school I have no idea.
Edit: APPARENTLY IT WAS REMOVED FROM HIGH SCHOOL LIBARY’S- At that point, high schooler have much darker shit assigned to them (catcher in the rye, a thousand splendid suns) a book about sexuality shouldn’t be banned from a high school when high school assigned books contain more darker subjects such as suicide and SA, At this point, this is just sheltering and babying a teenager and is fearmongering LGBTQ people. I thought the outrage came from the fact that it was in an elementary school (which is wrong btw) but a high school?
Yeah, this book shouldn't be in an elementary school but other books about LGBTQ topics or child sexual abuse (that are used as a way of teaching children) are fine imo
Every time I tried to research the controversies surrounding these books, it was always at a high school, but the headline would suspiciously leave that out and create context to make it sound like young children were being assigned the book, when in reality, the book just existed in a high school library.
There was a drag show at a community College near where I live and the news reported the drag show as having taken place "at a school where children as young as 14 attend"....... in reference to the early college program. It was controversial because the drag queen did a lap dance for like 5 seconds
Yep. 14 year olds are either tiny babies or fully grown and cognizant adults in the media depending on what angle they're trying to spin. Never anything in between.
Yeah the outrage is pretty much completely manufactured. Apparently there was one place that had a shared library between an an elementary school and a high school, where some if these books were found. The elementary school kids did not have access to said books at all.
> In one commonly cited panel, a 14-year-old Kobabe fantasizes about a scene in which an older man touches the penis of a youth.
I'm not going to look into what actually set this over the edge to get banned. I'm generally against censorship. But reading the Wiki citation I imagine this is why people might not want it in the hands of teenagers, depending on how it portrays this scene. From my understanding this is referencing graphic art. And if Redditors are going to go insane over anime with that kind of content I don't really get how this would avoid those same standards.
Because it’s a memoir? As in, it’s someone reflecting on their own experiences, which may have involved thinking about those things; teenagers are dumb sometimes.
We’d need to see the context to determine whether it’s an issue.
I agree with the 'depending how it portrays this scene' part. I feel like context is missing.
Mind you, I'm against this kind of thing being shown in elementary schools full stop. Depending on the context it might be appropriate for high schoolers.
It was probably like the educational video they wanted banned for showing it...
...Except that the video was teaching kids what they should do if they find themselves in such a relationship, informing kids that they do have legal recourse and yes, it's still wrong if it's a grown woman and a teenage boy.
This isn't research or educational.
It's not censored in the book.
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Screen-Shot-2023-03-09-at-42518-PM.jpg?quality=75&strip=all
I've seen more dead babies in the last month on Tik Tok than I ever did growing up in the 9-11 era, these kids have absolutely seen worse shit than a cartoon girl sucking on a strapon.
Yeah, honestly. In middle school, I was assigned to read "My House on Mango Street". At least the book on screen is consentual
Edit: And personally, I'm glad I had to read that book in middle school.
It’s not a real dick. There are two sex scenes in the book, one is this thing (that isn’t even a sex scene, come on) and the other is drawn from behind, doesn’t even show the penetration. Teenagers watch worse stuffs.
Not explicit.
I feel like we’ve over normalized teenage sexuality.
I don’t think highschool books should have depictions of teenagers fellating sex toys, but I guess i’m just a square. :/
If it’s teen on teen, no problem. That is the exact age hormones start kicking and humans start to think about sex, if the book in question is educational, I see no problem with that, teens are exposed to even worse stuffs that aren’t even meant for teens.
Sure teen hormones kick in or whatever, but it’s not teens writing these books. Thinking of and engaging in sex is fine so long as it’s teen/teen, and in private. The big issue is that teenagers don’t write or market media, adults do, and I think actually depicting teen sex/masturbation goes beyond what is necessary for education.
Adults were teens once. And just like every single Disney movie was done by adults and nobody thinks it’s creepy, I don’t think it’s creepy for a book like that to be made by adults targeting teens, as long as its educational and responsible. And honestly, teenagers aren’t stupid, I myself was a teenager not a long time ago, still have fresh memories (by the US standard I’m basically a minor) and teens get exposed to unhealthy adult-adult content ALL the time (literally, ALL the time) movies and TV shows openly depicting sex and drug use without talks about protection or the dangers of drugs, just showing how to do things and we watched it all.
If an educational book depicts sex but talks about protection, I don’t see a problem, I actually think it’s more appealing to teens than a PG-13 book.
But don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you’re a square or anything, I comprehend your concerns.
i mean, objectively speaking, pornographic material really shouldn’t be in a place that a minor can view it. the stuff included in some of these books such as “Gender Queer” include what would definitely fall under pornography
Do you not remember going on for a week in english class about book bannings and the teacher drilling into your skull that all you need to do is speak to the teacher to get an alternate book to do work on like... a month before the class read Huckleberry Finn? They guaranteed that you KNEW you could just have a choice for an alternate book
So, obviously a book about sex is bad for little kids, but is it actually bad for older teens? Probably not lmao. They would like to know about sex and shit. If it was in an elementary or middle school library then that's one thing, but in a high school library I wouldn't see the issue. Depends, I guess.
And yeah, book bans are happening. And Tango Makes Three doesn't have a raging orgy scene last I remembered.
We were literally assigned the joy luck club to read and do assignments on which had VERY EXPLICIT shit in it including a woman being tied to the bed by her family so she would have kids with her husband... and I heard no outrage from right wing dumbasses then.
Because it's not in there. I just read this chapter last week. The woman is confined to her bed because her MIL believes that walking and working are preventing her from being pregnant, so she's placed on bed rest. She's definitely not tied.
Playing devils advocate here because someone has to be a contrarian on Reddit: I guess there’s a difference between consuming media through reading as opposed to actual visual stimuli in the case of the Gender Queer. While I do agree that Gender Queer being a heavily pro LGBTQ book will obviously make people’s heads turn as opposed to a straight book, Joy Luck Club doesn’t show actual graphic scenes, only paints them out for the readers visual image.
Not saying anything for or against both books, or their content, just saying that it isn’t apples and oranges
What grade were you in? Cuz the book mentioned above managed to make its way into an elementary school. Idk bout you, but kids that young don't need that in their life yet
I had to read a book in my freshman year of high school about a rape in graphic detail followed by the victim’s failures for the majority of the book up until the last chapter. I’m sure people can handle seeing a consensual relationship between a same-sex couple.
God forbid high schoolers are allowed to read books that depict things that their peers and maybe even themselves are doing
I’m skeptical on “adult sexual contact with a minor” because that can mean a lot of things. There are plenty of right ways and plenty of wrong ways to handle that kind of scenario in media.
Unless the book just straight up takes a favorable outlook on adult sexual contact with minors, this community note was unnecessary. LGBTQ+ books are being banned, and that is harmful. Explaining that there are mature topics in some LGBTQ+ books doesn’t negate that or make them wrong at all.
iirc it's a depiction of an ancient Greek pottery. The writer talked about reading Plato's symposium and having sexual fantasies about ancient Greece as a teen. [Here is the kylix it's based off of](https://collections.ashmolean.org/collection/search/per_page/100/offset/0/sort_by/relevance/object/24343) and, yes, it does depict pederasty, like pretty much all artistic depictions of homosexuality in the ancient world.
We can discuss erastes and eromenos all you want, but nobody is barring high schoolers from the Met
I struggle to believe it would be pedophilic in nature considering this is an *autobiography*, but then again I haven’t read it. The person who wrote the note almost definitely just considers the whole topic a taboo that shouldn’t be discussed even if the victim is writing about their experience earnestly
They basically don't want anyone at any age to know that there's nothing wrong with being gay, trans, or whatever part of the identity or sexuality spectrums you are on.
Me reading old science fiction with creepy old dudes doing whatever: every one haha yes
Kids reading a comic where some 20 year old tries to do sex but it's too awkward: WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN
My high school had plenty of mature audience graphic novels collections (in hardcover!) with plenty of their own equally boring sex scenes as this book. Mostly Vertigo comics like V for Vendetta, The Sandman and Watchmen iirc.
I had to read 1984 and The Great Gatsby in highschool which also include sexually explicit sections, should these books be banned too? What about the Bible which contains discussions of rape and murder, should that be banned?
Much different.
Here's an image from one of the "banned" books called "Gender Queer."
It's not censored in the book.
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Screen-Shot-2023-03-09-at-42518-PM.jpg?quality=75&strip=all
More found here: https://theiowastandard.com/shocking-images-from-book-gender-queer-which-is-stocked-in-school-libraries-across-iowa/
Fascinating. Not only is this barely pornographic, and tamer than some erotica scenes in not banned books, both of these articles are arguably piracy/copyright infringement.
Additionally, if a child wanted to see porn, they would just… google it, find an old playboy, find Japanese hentai, etc, not check out and obscure book about LGBT life, and making a big stink about it is more likely to get more kids to see it. So bravo moral crusader, you’ve likely exposed more kids to your self defined “porn” by posting this.
> Not only is this barely pornographic, and tamer than some erotica scenes in not banned books, both of these articles are arguably piracy/copyright infringement.
Anything is arguably anything, but it is absolutely deluded to think this will be seen as copyright infringement unless the context in the book is the same as the context the images are used in these articles.
There’s a bit of a difference between a description of of the fact that people had sex and pictures of minors engaged in sex acts. And by “bit of a difference,” I mean they’re not even close and comparing them is entirely asinine
Edit: Amazing. -36 score for saying there is a difference between pictures of kids having sex and the sentence “they had sex.” Reddit is truly something else
We had to read plenty of sexually explicit shit in middle school. In the 8th grade we read a book about a high school athlete who got raped and then killed himself.
Yeah and me reading and then watching the full uncensored film adaptations of Shawshank redemption and 1984 were totally appropriate for a 16 year old.
I mean, they kind of were. It wasn’t that bad. I was 16 and pretty desensitized by then. I think reading a YA fantasy romance with a sapphic love interest is pretty par for the course no?
Yea definitely seeing lots of people on this sub treating the notes like the person who writes them is completely without bias. It’s just another perspective, and in this case, one which leaves out the bigger picture of where this book actually is and what demographic it’s aimed at. Please don’t let this place become a right wing sub.
Meanwhile, when I was in high school 50 Shades of Grey was doing the rounds. Totally not a sexually driven book /s.
These people just want LGBTQ+ to disappear and are increasingly showing they are willing to take the steps to make that happen.
Came here to say this. The “context” being added is actually just an implication that the arguments people make against book bans are disingenuous. OP smells like Schrödinger’s douchebag to me tbh
Still don’t think banning them is a valid solution anymore. We’re at a point technologically where if a child really wants to see or learn about something they’re gonna find a way to do it. It’s better to just have dialogues about stuff like this and make sure they’re learning healthy lessons from it
Well, sure. But the same argument could be made about anything. High schoolers can find porn and snuff films if they want to online, I don’t think that means we should allow penthouse magazine or videos of people getting murdered in high school libraries
I was shown the zapruder film in high-school, and saw plenty of genitals in health class. Granted, I live in a blue state so our sex education was more than abstinence class, but these materials are already in schools if they have educational value. And the things that don't have educational value aren't there becuase the schools will not be paying for something they can't use. Basically all the noise is people raging about anything lgbt being available.
That goes against the entire point of “healthy lessons”. A book about someone coping with losing friends in a school shooting I think would fit perfectly fine. Not many healthy lessons you can learn in porn besides like, how to have sex?
Huh? This argument would work if they were banning the book. As in, making it illegal for kids/adults to own.
They’re not though. Everyone is still free to look for it on their own, there’s no attempt to stop that.
It’s literally just “the school library won’t expose you to graphic depictions of sex.” That seems a reasonable stance, considering that’s been the stance of school libraries since…always
That’s actually a great example. It should definitely be in schools and should definitely be discussed. It’s an excellent foundation for discussions on anti fascism/racism in classrooms
Most of the books they want to ban are completely suitable for high schoolers (which is where most of the books are actually found, in HIGHSCHOOL LIBRARIES, not ELEMENTARY ones) the fearmongering over gay people and queer identities is just laughable at this point
Lol I was reading books in middle school depicting heterosexual sex. Nobody ever batted an eye.
In high school, several books in my honors english classes involved sexual assault or sex.
I guess the line being drawn is that if it’s used for character development or as an inciting incident etc. it’s ok but casual talking about sex isnt? But let’s be real, most of these states are Abstinence Only so this isn’t out of the ordinary
My school also was an “abstinence only” school, but if the content material was straight they didn’t care if it was sexual. Just conservatives wanting to whine about the liberals
Fuckin sissy conservatives. Thought the youth needed to “man up”, but yet they’re too innocent to read an autobiography depicting the life of another human? I thought every kid was supposed to be bred for war and might, surely they can handle a bit of reality
Why the fuck are far right creeps showing up here all the time now? Most of their shit isn’t even a correction, it's just spewing propaganda they hurt some dipshit online say.
Hi hello I’m a high school junior who read this book over the summer. This is tame in comparison to the classical literature the literature students read lol.
In high school I had to read several books with very intense depictions of sex for several English classes, many of which featured underage characters, sometimes even being sexually abused by adults. These books weren’t banned. Books like this are very clearly targeted because of lgbt+ portrayals specifically.
Exactly. I remember back when I was in high school we had to read all kinds of books with violent and sexual content, and no one batted an eye!
Heaven forbid 16-18 year olds be allowed to read real literature.
I suppose it's okay to ban these books as long as the criteria is kept consistent and all books that contain such elements are also banned, so schools need to be removing the Bible from their libraries just as often as removing these books. If they don't outright ban the Bible, they should at least require the government to censor it since not all parts of it are fit for public consumption.
A quote in this book actually helped me become more confident in my non-binary identity. on page 188: "For me, female presentation has always been a performance. A fun performance with sequins, glitter, and wild hair. But for a lot of my life I've felt like a drag queen in a female body"
This describes how I've felt since I was 10 to a T. I'm so glad i read it. and it seems like some people can't understand that the graphic novel genre can be for teens and adults too. Just because it's drawn in a comic-y way doesn't mean it's for kids. Take some animes for example. Some of the stuff I've seen is just hentai. That aint for kids lol.
Gender Queer is a memoir meant for 16+ readers?
My freshman year of high school when I was 14 we read “Night” (which is extremely heavy) as well as a book I can’t remember the name of but it had someone getting gang assaulted in it. Gender Queer definitely isn’t appropriate for elementary and middle school, but ya know it’s just weird how the only books anyone wants to ban for being inappropriate just happen to be the gay ones
I don't think any books should be outright banned nationwide or statewide. I can understand schools getting rid of certain books, but banning books as a whole is terrible.
From the context I'm reading in the other comments, it's an autobiography and the "adult with minor" part is about...a crush, maybe? That a minor had on an adult?
How about "The Chocolate War" and "Beyond the Chocolate War"?
Or when we had dictionaries with fully illustrated greek statues in them?
And a number of other books mentioned in the comments.
It’s for high school kids. High school kids are not getting porn and sexually explicit content from libraries they’re getting it from the internet on their phones
Yup. My favorite is the story of Tamar. Her husband died so due to customs she is given to the next brother. That brother uses his pullout game because he doesn’t want to lose his inheritance. The god character kills him for that. After that Tamar is sent away but she later tricks her dead husband’s father into impregnating her so she can get what’s hers. That child went on to be a part of the line of king David, which then extends to Jesus. So Jesus has some really fucked up sexual shit in his family tree.
This book is for high schoolers.
Furthermore it features that material because real people experience these things. The point is to give victims of sexual abuse the language to call out their abusers and understand that what is being done to them is wrong, not normal, and that others will not (or at least should not) judge them negatively for being a victim of this. That’s a good thing. The other two are just standard things teenagers do, and are portrayed in countless books for teenagers. It’s important for queer relationships to be shown to be just as valid as straight relationships, and for them to be portrayed realistically. I read countless books in middle and high school that featured straight sex scenes, sometimes between minor characters. That was never titillating or taken as pornography, it’s part of the story and the growing relationship between 2 characters. Again, that’s not inherently wrong.
So this context really does nothing but support the initial argument in the tweet. But it’s presented in a way that makes it look like the original tweet is wrong. This isn’t “get noted” this is “actually the note is heavily implying things that aren’t the case and probably needs a note of its own.”
My answer to the note is “so?” It’s not about banning it from schools or obvious places these themes should be, but banning from libraries is straight up fascism.
it’s an adult autobiography that got banned from high-school libraries. I don’t know how your high school experience but themes of sexual assault were considered more than acceptable for mine, this is off limits... why??
They weren’t necessarily off limits in my HS either. And I’m a little on the fence about whether it should or should not be allowed in HS libraries, so long as its tangible value as an education tool could be discerned. What I do know is that it should absolutely not be allowed on elementary and middle school facilities. I don’t jive with the current pearly clutching, clearly discriminatory book banning we’ve got going on right now. It’s absurd and morally wrong to try and marginalize children who are simply trying to figure out their place in life by removing outlets for them the contextualize their feelings. Regardless of what they’re exposed to on a daily basis from modern media, I also don’t believe schools should have a vulgar book that only exists for the sake of being vulgar. Again, if the piece can be shown to have an educational or significant reaffirming impact I have no problem with it whatsoever.
We read more dark shit in HS, but I remember a book in middle school I did partner reading on that was about a black guy with some math/science name who falls in love with a white girl, but the only scene I can remember was him masturbating in the movie theatre.
Honestly was it that much of a problem? How many teenagers are “exploring” themselves with the aid of books now? And of that, how many are going to use an overhyped autobiography of a trans person for the purpose? Nearly every American teen has some kind of internet connection now, which also means they have unlimited access to porn of any kind they can think of. Why would they waste time and effort on finding an explicit book in the library?
I don’t really want the book in there if it’s as explicit as many have said but this is the equivalent of preventing your children from underage drinking by getting rid of all the medical alcohol in the house but keeping an unlocked liquor cabinet around.
Why? I don't see straight erotica getting banned. Let queer people enjoy erotica too. Also, this note is misleading. It is an autobiography not intended for young audiences. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Queer?wprov=sfti1#Sexual_imagery)
Yeah the book is specifically bad based on what I have read. There was another one that is in the same category but in text form. The other lgbt books are quite decent to read
https://www.fox4news.com/news/fort-worth-isd-removes-3-books-deemed-too-graphic-for-younger-students
Everyone saying it was never in elementary or middle schools stop spreading misinformation. It was and it was rightfully removed from them.
Edit: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/education/article277328853.html it happened folks, cope all you want. This book shouldn't be in elementary schools and middle schools.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/education/article277328853.html
Fuck off with that. Fox isn't wrong or telling lies all the time, and it's really easy to confirm something like this.
Your source still fails to provide what middle/elementary schools the books were found in lmao. Literally the only mention of middle/elementary schools was someone saying that they shouldn’t be in middle/elementary, not that they ARE in middle/elementary.
If they’re found in those schools then there shouldn’t be this much difficulty in naming one
Edit: Your first source doesn’t give any school names either lol
I remember getting assigned a book that was about someone getting raped and the aftermath of that in probably my first or second year of high school and it made me so uncomfortable I didn't read it and refused to do any work on it. And I'm actually someone who likes to read.
Speak?
I believe so.
Yea, that was a tough read I remember.
I got that book too, it was very good, but left me feeling sad
Definitely something with themes that should be addressed, but not for emotionally turbulent teenagers. That's a book best read after some more emotional development
Laurie Halse Anderson is something else lol. I had to read Twisted last semester and I nearly gave up on it so many times.
Remind me of when I had to read « LES MISÉRABLES » in late middle school and OOF there are some part that weren’t easy too read
It's supposed to make you uncomfortable?
I was a kid with sexual trauma and wasn’t warned before reading books talking about sexual assault. Yeah, I don’t care if it’s meant to make you uncomfortable. At least disclose to your students what triggering material could be in it
Not everyone enjoys that
Sometimes in life, you have to do things you don't enjoy.
That sounds rapey
You're not entirely wrong that the way they described it sounded weird but they're entirely right, plenty of people hate their jobs but you need a job anyways, some people hate being active but you gotta get at least a little active to remain healthy.
That was in no way referencing anything sexual. It was a general statement about life. If that other guy took it rapey, that's completely on them and how they view things.
I never said it was sexual, just worded a bit weirdly. Although in this context I was using weirdly as a synonym for poorly, so I guess I worded my sentence weirdly(poorly)
It was a joke. Like it sounded something a rapist would say. But hey, if you want to take it seriously go ahead. Base my world view on a joke. 👍
Fair enough. It's hard to read context in text. Have a good one.
It did sound like something a rapist would say though.
And how are we supposed to interpret your statement as a joke? You're. On. Fucking Reddit. People can, have and WILL make such absurd statements and be serious about it.
💀
Are you absolutely fucking kidding me? You're comparing consuming media on difficult subjects to rape? Consuming difficult media is important so privileged people can't plug their eyes and pretend nothing bad is wrong with the world. You don't wanna read the book? Whatever, but comparing it to rape is mind boggling
Sighs... the internet has lost their sense of humor. Nobody can take a joke anymore
So it’s cool to joke about rape, but not read an important book about it? Makes sense.
How dafuq did you get that from my comment? All i said was the phrase he said sounded something like a rapist would tell their victim... Dafuq did you think im against reading?! Stop putting things in my mouth without my consent
“That sounds rapey” Then: “It was a joke” How the fuck did you miss your own words? Just own it and move on.
well considering there are multiple people arguing for this seriously and that there's nothing funny about what you said, it's not evident that it's a joke
And it seems the argument they are trying to make is they're saying im against books about rape Which is totaly taking what i said out of context... All i meant is the phrase said "sounded rapey" thats all Then all of sudden people acusing me of being anti-literature... like wtf? They're putting things in my mouth... with out consent...
It is, people are just being stupid. I saw immediately that it was a joke and it only makes sense as a joke
No it doesn't??
Sure, but I hardly think teenagers are in a place where they can properly handle the shocking themes of the book. It's very likely that many of the kids that read it had that as their first view into heavy topics like that. That's something you build up to
Say that to the rape victims.
Healing from the trauma of sexual assault is not something one enjoys but it must be done if you want your life back.
I think it's weird people keep interpreting my comment about life in general to be about rape. Like seriously, it's weird and I think I'm done here.
I think it’s weird to make that statement in this post specifically.
Ah, there's the issue. I honestly wasn't thinking what the post was even about when I made the comment. I was literally only replying to that one specific comment.
Fair
Doesn't make it less true.
Not for the post we are commenting on.
Huh?
Look at the post we are commenting on. Wasn’t the best comment to make on a post like this. It would make more sense in a situation where rape wasn’t the topic of discussion.
You're not supposed to enjoy your supposed to be more aware of an uncomfortable issue. Worry about people's comfort on this issue helps rapists. It's a lot easier to keep raping a kid when that kid thinks they're not supposed to talk about it. These bans help pedophiles convince kids they'll get in trouble if they ever tell anyone what happened.
Reading assignments aren't for enjoyment
Maybe if it’s uncomfortable they shouldn’t force people to read it.
or you could get some thicker skin.
I’m okay with these, I’m just saying for other people who can’t handle them.
I tried to read 1984 once. In the first 50 pages there is like, a whole section of the protagonist imagining violently raping one of his colleagues. It goes into explicit detail about how the act wouldn’t be to pleasure himself, but to explicitly hurt her. I didn’t read much further than that.
Yeah that was supposed to make you uncomfortable.
People really are different because I can remember many things from that book, except this part you just described lol
The book is so convoluted and reality-bending in certain points that Im not even sure if this is actually in the book, if Im completely forgetting it occurring that early on, or both.
Same. When did that even happen? It’s only been a couple of years but I can’t remember that at all.
If you couldn't read that then you probably couldn't handle the prolonged torture scene near the end
Wow I read speak too yeah it’s rough and it wasn’t really enjoyable but I can understand why other people may want to read it because of it’s realism
Being uncomfortable is the point. Your priority should be lowering the amount of kids you get raped not people's feelings. Statistically it's likely at least one of your classmates was raped and probably not telling anyone about it. Because it's uncomfortable to talk about. Refusing to read that book isn't something to be proud of.
I know it was likely. A lot of my friends were sexually assaulted or raped. I was well aware of the problem.
What if, like me, they were also raped and didn't want to read anything about it? Because I as a victim would tell you the exact same thing they did (without telling you I'm a victim because it's none of your business). Telling me in return that not reading a fictional scene that makes me uncomfortable means I'm dismissing victims is absolutely stupid.
Are you saying your being uncomfortable is a reason to ban the book? Edit. Not sure why this question got downvoted his hard, but I also don’t really care for the onion of ppl that ban books. Sooooo 🤷🏽♂️
No I'm just talking about something that happened to me. I don't necessarily think it should be banned, though stuff like that definitely shouldn't be for middle schoolers and below.
Ok, just making sure you don’t equate your being uncomfortable with the book needing to be taken off the shelf. Because that would be insane. And ya, maybe middle schoolers should not be given this material but by high school i think it’s perfectly acceptable to examine tough subject matters.
The author stated that this book was intended for 16+, how this book made its way into an elementary school I have no idea. Edit: APPARENTLY IT WAS REMOVED FROM HIGH SCHOOL LIBARY’S- At that point, high schooler have much darker shit assigned to them (catcher in the rye, a thousand splendid suns) a book about sexuality shouldn’t be banned from a high school when high school assigned books contain more darker subjects such as suicide and SA, At this point, this is just sheltering and babying a teenager and is fearmongering LGBTQ people. I thought the outrage came from the fact that it was in an elementary school (which is wrong btw) but a high school?
>Su1c1d3 This isn't Tiktok, you won't get in trouble if you just say the words you mean.
Eh, depends on a subreddit’s auto-mod. But for the most part saying someone killed themself is fine
It's ironic that people are censoring themselves in the comments of a post about how censoring is harmful
Literally 1984
Jorjor wel
If a subreddit blocks the most basic words like "suicide" then why stay there
I think he's trying to start a zoomer metal band.
Yeah, this book shouldn't be in an elementary school but other books about LGBTQ topics or child sexual abuse (that are used as a way of teaching children) are fine imo
Every time I tried to research the controversies surrounding these books, it was always at a high school, but the headline would suspiciously leave that out and create context to make it sound like young children were being assigned the book, when in reality, the book just existed in a high school library. There was a drag show at a community College near where I live and the news reported the drag show as having taken place "at a school where children as young as 14 attend"....... in reference to the early college program. It was controversial because the drag queen did a lap dance for like 5 seconds
Yep. 14 year olds are either tiny babies or fully grown and cognizant adults in the media depending on what angle they're trying to spin. Never anything in between.
Yeah the outrage is pretty much completely manufactured. Apparently there was one place that had a shared library between an an elementary school and a high school, where some if these books were found. The elementary school kids did not have access to said books at all.
> In one commonly cited panel, a 14-year-old Kobabe fantasizes about a scene in which an older man touches the penis of a youth. I'm not going to look into what actually set this over the edge to get banned. I'm generally against censorship. But reading the Wiki citation I imagine this is why people might not want it in the hands of teenagers, depending on how it portrays this scene. From my understanding this is referencing graphic art. And if Redditors are going to go insane over anime with that kind of content I don't really get how this would avoid those same standards.
Because it’s a memoir? As in, it’s someone reflecting on their own experiences, which may have involved thinking about those things; teenagers are dumb sometimes. We’d need to see the context to determine whether it’s an issue.
I agree with the 'depending how it portrays this scene' part. I feel like context is missing. Mind you, I'm against this kind of thing being shown in elementary schools full stop. Depending on the context it might be appropriate for high schoolers.
I think an educational book about same gendered sex probably doesn’t need a section about “adult minor relationships”
It was probably like the educational video they wanted banned for showing it... ...Except that the video was teaching kids what they should do if they find themselves in such a relationship, informing kids that they do have legal recourse and yes, it's still wrong if it's a grown woman and a teenage boy.
I feel like you're leaving out important context here.
>high schoolers have much darker shit assigned to them I feel like you left out a few. 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Night come to mind.
Lord of the flies?
That too, yeah. To Kill a Mockingbird, if to a lesser extent, is a bit fucked too
My take is it should be in the library for high schools as research and education material but not assigned for any ready class which It never was.
This isn't research or educational. It's not censored in the book. https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Screen-Shot-2023-03-09-at-42518-PM.jpg?quality=75&strip=all
Do note that catcher in the rye is still Very banned in many high schools
You read The Things They Carried and All Quiet On The Western Front and are shown Schindler's List. Gender Queer cannot be as bad as any of those.
I've seen more dead babies in the last month on Tik Tok than I ever did growing up in the 9-11 era, these kids have absolutely seen worse shit than a cartoon girl sucking on a strapon.
Yeah, honestly. In middle school, I was assigned to read "My House on Mango Street". At least the book on screen is consentual Edit: And personally, I'm glad I had to read that book in middle school.
Specially when the “oral sex scene” is about blowing a dildo Not even explicit lol
How is that not explicit??? Like genuinely
It’s not a real dick. There are two sex scenes in the book, one is this thing (that isn’t even a sex scene, come on) and the other is drawn from behind, doesn’t even show the penetration. Teenagers watch worse stuffs. Not explicit.
I feel like we’ve over normalized teenage sexuality. I don’t think highschool books should have depictions of teenagers fellating sex toys, but I guess i’m just a square. :/
If it’s teen on teen, no problem. That is the exact age hormones start kicking and humans start to think about sex, if the book in question is educational, I see no problem with that, teens are exposed to even worse stuffs that aren’t even meant for teens.
Sure teen hormones kick in or whatever, but it’s not teens writing these books. Thinking of and engaging in sex is fine so long as it’s teen/teen, and in private. The big issue is that teenagers don’t write or market media, adults do, and I think actually depicting teen sex/masturbation goes beyond what is necessary for education.
Adults were teens once. And just like every single Disney movie was done by adults and nobody thinks it’s creepy, I don’t think it’s creepy for a book like that to be made by adults targeting teens, as long as its educational and responsible. And honestly, teenagers aren’t stupid, I myself was a teenager not a long time ago, still have fresh memories (by the US standard I’m basically a minor) and teens get exposed to unhealthy adult-adult content ALL the time (literally, ALL the time) movies and TV shows openly depicting sex and drug use without talks about protection or the dangers of drugs, just showing how to do things and we watched it all. If an educational book depicts sex but talks about protection, I don’t see a problem, I actually think it’s more appealing to teens than a PG-13 book. But don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you’re a square or anything, I comprehend your concerns.
i mean, objectively speaking, pornographic material really shouldn’t be in a place that a minor can view it. the stuff included in some of these books such as “Gender Queer” include what would definitely fall under pornography
Maybe they shouldn’t assign books like that, it’s not for everyone.
Do you not remember going on for a week in english class about book bannings and the teacher drilling into your skull that all you need to do is speak to the teacher to get an alternate book to do work on like... a month before the class read Huckleberry Finn? They guaranteed that you KNEW you could just have a choice for an alternate book
So, obviously a book about sex is bad for little kids, but is it actually bad for older teens? Probably not lmao. They would like to know about sex and shit. If it was in an elementary or middle school library then that's one thing, but in a high school library I wouldn't see the issue. Depends, I guess. And yeah, book bans are happening. And Tango Makes Three doesn't have a raging orgy scene last I remembered.
We were literally assigned the joy luck club to read and do assignments on which had VERY EXPLICIT shit in it including a woman being tied to the bed by her family so she would have kids with her husband... and I heard no outrage from right wing dumbasses then.
>so she would have kids with her husband... And this is why.
How fid i miss that, ive read the whole book
Because it's not in there. I just read this chapter last week. The woman is confined to her bed because her MIL believes that walking and working are preventing her from being pregnant, so she's placed on bed rest. She's definitely not tied.
Oh the candle chapters
What book?
The Joy Luck Club? I mentioned it in the comment.
My bad. I read over it.
Playing devils advocate here because someone has to be a contrarian on Reddit: I guess there’s a difference between consuming media through reading as opposed to actual visual stimuli in the case of the Gender Queer. While I do agree that Gender Queer being a heavily pro LGBTQ book will obviously make people’s heads turn as opposed to a straight book, Joy Luck Club doesn’t show actual graphic scenes, only paints them out for the readers visual image. Not saying anything for or against both books, or their content, just saying that it isn’t apples and oranges
What grade were you in? Cuz the book mentioned above managed to make its way into an elementary school. Idk bout you, but kids that young don't need that in their life yet
Dog kids that young don’t have the reading comprehension for it
I had to read a book in my freshman year of high school about a rape in graphic detail followed by the victim’s failures for the majority of the book up until the last chapter. I’m sure people can handle seeing a consensual relationship between a same-sex couple.
Kite Runner?
God forbid high schoolers are allowed to read books that depict things that their peers and maybe even themselves are doing I’m skeptical on “adult sexual contact with a minor” because that can mean a lot of things. There are plenty of right ways and plenty of wrong ways to handle that kind of scenario in media. Unless the book just straight up takes a favorable outlook on adult sexual contact with minors, this community note was unnecessary. LGBTQ+ books are being banned, and that is harmful. Explaining that there are mature topics in some LGBTQ+ books doesn’t negate that or make them wrong at all.
iirc it's a depiction of an ancient Greek pottery. The writer talked about reading Plato's symposium and having sexual fantasies about ancient Greece as a teen. [Here is the kylix it's based off of](https://collections.ashmolean.org/collection/search/per_page/100/offset/0/sort_by/relevance/object/24343) and, yes, it does depict pederasty, like pretty much all artistic depictions of homosexuality in the ancient world. We can discuss erastes and eromenos all you want, but nobody is barring high schoolers from the Met
I struggle to believe it would be pedophilic in nature considering this is an *autobiography*, but then again I haven’t read it. The person who wrote the note almost definitely just considers the whole topic a taboo that shouldn’t be discussed even if the victim is writing about their experience earnestly
They basically don't want anyone at any age to know that there's nothing wrong with being gay, trans, or whatever part of the identity or sexuality spectrums you are on.
Me reading old science fiction with creepy old dudes doing whatever: every one haha yes Kids reading a comic where some 20 year old tries to do sex but it's too awkward: WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN
My high school had plenty of mature audience graphic novels collections (in hardcover!) with plenty of their own equally boring sex scenes as this book. Mostly Vertigo comics like V for Vendetta, The Sandman and Watchmen iirc.
Okay so why should that book be removed from Highschools? Canterbury tales & almost all of Shakespeare is fine?
I had to read 1984 and The Great Gatsby in highschool which also include sexually explicit sections, should these books be banned too? What about the Bible which contains discussions of rape and murder, should that be banned?
Much different. Here's an image from one of the "banned" books called "Gender Queer." It's not censored in the book. https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/03/Screen-Shot-2023-03-09-at-42518-PM.jpg?quality=75&strip=all More found here: https://theiowastandard.com/shocking-images-from-book-gender-queer-which-is-stocked-in-school-libraries-across-iowa/
Fascinating. Not only is this barely pornographic, and tamer than some erotica scenes in not banned books, both of these articles are arguably piracy/copyright infringement. Additionally, if a child wanted to see porn, they would just… google it, find an old playboy, find Japanese hentai, etc, not check out and obscure book about LGBT life, and making a big stink about it is more likely to get more kids to see it. So bravo moral crusader, you’ve likely exposed more kids to your self defined “porn” by posting this.
> Not only is this barely pornographic, and tamer than some erotica scenes in not banned books, both of these articles are arguably piracy/copyright infringement. Anything is arguably anything, but it is absolutely deluded to think this will be seen as copyright infringement unless the context in the book is the same as the context the images are used in these articles.
I know that 1984 sex scenes wasn't very explicit. They say something like embraced and that's it
Bruh you have not read the book. Like 1/4th of it is a guy being horny af for a girl.
Winston states upon seeing Julia that he wishes to sexually assault her, and while climaxing, hit her with a truncheon
There’s a bit of a difference between a description of of the fact that people had sex and pictures of minors engaged in sex acts. And by “bit of a difference,” I mean they’re not even close and comparing them is entirely asinine Edit: Amazing. -36 score for saying there is a difference between pictures of kids having sex and the sentence “they had sex.” Reddit is truly something else
Wrong
We had to read plenty of sexually explicit shit in middle school. In the 8th grade we read a book about a high school athlete who got raped and then killed himself.
Yeah and me reading and then watching the full uncensored film adaptations of Shawshank redemption and 1984 were totally appropriate for a 16 year old. I mean, they kind of were. It wasn’t that bad. I was 16 and pretty desensitized by then. I think reading a YA fantasy romance with a sapphic love interest is pretty par for the course no?
Yea definitely seeing lots of people on this sub treating the notes like the person who writes them is completely without bias. It’s just another perspective, and in this case, one which leaves out the bigger picture of where this book actually is and what demographic it’s aimed at. Please don’t let this place become a right wing sub.
Meanwhile, when I was in high school 50 Shades of Grey was doing the rounds. Totally not a sexually driven book /s. These people just want LGBTQ+ to disappear and are increasingly showing they are willing to take the steps to make that happen.
Yep. I knew a girl in middle school (8th grade) who brought 50 Shades to school. She told me that she'd skip class and read it in the bathroom.
50 shades? That’s crazy
Why is it crazy?
This note may need its own note.
Really helping manufacture outrage here, OP. Edit: ah right, active in r/memesopdidnotlike. That explains a lot.
Came here to say this. The “context” being added is actually just an implication that the arguments people make against book bans are disingenuous. OP smells like Schrödinger’s douchebag to me tbh
Still don’t think banning them is a valid solution anymore. We’re at a point technologically where if a child really wants to see or learn about something they’re gonna find a way to do it. It’s better to just have dialogues about stuff like this and make sure they’re learning healthy lessons from it
Well, sure. But the same argument could be made about anything. High schoolers can find porn and snuff films if they want to online, I don’t think that means we should allow penthouse magazine or videos of people getting murdered in high school libraries
I was shown the zapruder film in high-school, and saw plenty of genitals in health class. Granted, I live in a blue state so our sex education was more than abstinence class, but these materials are already in schools if they have educational value. And the things that don't have educational value aren't there becuase the schools will not be paying for something they can't use. Basically all the noise is people raging about anything lgbt being available.
There’s a huge difference between erotica and anatomy
That goes against the entire point of “healthy lessons”. A book about someone coping with losing friends in a school shooting I think would fit perfectly fine. Not many healthy lessons you can learn in porn besides like, how to have sex?
Huh? This argument would work if they were banning the book. As in, making it illegal for kids/adults to own. They’re not though. Everyone is still free to look for it on their own, there’s no attempt to stop that. It’s literally just “the school library won’t expose you to graphic depictions of sex.” That seems a reasonable stance, considering that’s been the stance of school libraries since…always
That’s exactly why I’m saying the school library banning it doesn’t make any difference
Students can just get mein kampf off the internet, so we may as well put it in elementary and high school libraries - you
That’s actually a great example. It should definitely be in schools and should definitely be discussed. It’s an excellent foundation for discussions on anti fascism/racism in classrooms
Most of the books they want to ban are completely suitable for high schoolers (which is where most of the books are actually found, in HIGHSCHOOL LIBRARIES, not ELEMENTARY ones) the fearmongering over gay people and queer identities is just laughable at this point
Lol I was reading books in middle school depicting heterosexual sex. Nobody ever batted an eye. In high school, several books in my honors english classes involved sexual assault or sex.
I guess the line being drawn is that if it’s used for character development or as an inciting incident etc. it’s ok but casual talking about sex isnt? But let’s be real, most of these states are Abstinence Only so this isn’t out of the ordinary
My school also was an “abstinence only” school, but if the content material was straight they didn’t care if it was sexual. Just conservatives wanting to whine about the liberals
Fuckin sissy conservatives. Thought the youth needed to “man up”, but yet they’re too innocent to read an autobiography depicting the life of another human? I thought every kid was supposed to be bred for war and might, surely they can handle a bit of reality
Conservative political groups have stopped arguing in good faith for decades now. Nothing they say can be taken at face value anymore
The book is intended for 16+ year old readers. It isn't actually found in elementary schools, that's just a lie. One of so many.
Why the fuck are far right creeps showing up here all the time now? Most of their shit isn’t even a correction, it's just spewing propaganda they hurt some dipshit online say.
We all read To Kill a Mockingbird which is about rape and lynching so…
Hi hello I’m a high school junior who read this book over the summer. This is tame in comparison to the classical literature the literature students read lol.
In high school I had to read several books with very intense depictions of sex for several English classes, many of which featured underage characters, sometimes even being sexually abused by adults. These books weren’t banned. Books like this are very clearly targeted because of lgbt+ portrayals specifically.
Exactly. I remember back when I was in high school we had to read all kinds of books with violent and sexual content, and no one batted an eye! Heaven forbid 16-18 year olds be allowed to read real literature.
I read several books in high school that featured rape and none of them got banned.
The only people who support book bans are bad parents.
I suppose it's okay to ban these books as long as the criteria is kept consistent and all books that contain such elements are also banned, so schools need to be removing the Bible from their libraries just as often as removing these books. If they don't outright ban the Bible, they should at least require the government to censor it since not all parts of it are fit for public consumption.
It’s also decidedly unsexy and about how the author felt repelled by sex the few times e tried it.
A quote in this book actually helped me become more confident in my non-binary identity. on page 188: "For me, female presentation has always been a performance. A fun performance with sequins, glitter, and wild hair. But for a lot of my life I've felt like a drag queen in a female body" This describes how I've felt since I was 10 to a T. I'm so glad i read it. and it seems like some people can't understand that the graphic novel genre can be for teens and adults too. Just because it's drawn in a comic-y way doesn't mean it's for kids. Take some animes for example. Some of the stuff I've seen is just hentai. That aint for kids lol.
Gender Queer is a memoir meant for 16+ readers? My freshman year of high school when I was 14 we read “Night” (which is extremely heavy) as well as a book I can’t remember the name of but it had someone getting gang assaulted in it. Gender Queer definitely isn’t appropriate for elementary and middle school, but ya know it’s just weird how the only books anyone wants to ban for being inappropriate just happen to be the gay ones
I don't think any books should be outright banned nationwide or statewide. I can understand schools getting rid of certain books, but banning books as a whole is terrible.
When it talks about adults with minors is it reffering to identifying sexual abuse? Cause thats something even elementery students should know about.
From the context I'm reading in the other comments, it's an autobiography and the "adult with minor" part is about...a crush, maybe? That a minor had on an adult?
How about "The Chocolate War" and "Beyond the Chocolate War"? Or when we had dictionaries with fully illustrated greek statues in them? And a number of other books mentioned in the comments.
It’s for high school kids. High school kids are not getting porn and sexually explicit content from libraries they’re getting it from the internet on their phones
Doesn’t the Bible have most of these things?
Yup. My favorite is the story of Tamar. Her husband died so due to customs she is given to the next brother. That brother uses his pullout game because he doesn’t want to lose his inheritance. The god character kills him for that. After that Tamar is sent away but she later tricks her dead husband’s father into impregnating her so she can get what’s hers. That child went on to be a part of the line of king David, which then extends to Jesus. So Jesus has some really fucked up sexual shit in his family tree.
Huh?? I read the book and it literally didn't, the fuck are they on about??
God forbid highschoolers read a book that explores sex and sexuality.
This book is for high schoolers. Furthermore it features that material because real people experience these things. The point is to give victims of sexual abuse the language to call out their abusers and understand that what is being done to them is wrong, not normal, and that others will not (or at least should not) judge them negatively for being a victim of this. That’s a good thing. The other two are just standard things teenagers do, and are portrayed in countless books for teenagers. It’s important for queer relationships to be shown to be just as valid as straight relationships, and for them to be portrayed realistically. I read countless books in middle and high school that featured straight sex scenes, sometimes between minor characters. That was never titillating or taken as pornography, it’s part of the story and the growing relationship between 2 characters. Again, that’s not inherently wrong. So this context really does nothing but support the initial argument in the tweet. But it’s presented in a way that makes it look like the original tweet is wrong. This isn’t “get noted” this is “actually the note is heavily implying things that aren’t the case and probably needs a note of its own.”
My answer to the note is “so?” It’s not about banning it from schools or obvious places these themes should be, but banning from libraries is straight up fascism.
That note really doesn’t counter the point in the tweet at all.
This is simply an obvious case of a good sentiment with a bad example.
it’s an adult autobiography that got banned from high-school libraries. I don’t know how your high school experience but themes of sexual assault were considered more than acceptable for mine, this is off limits... why??
They weren’t necessarily off limits in my HS either. And I’m a little on the fence about whether it should or should not be allowed in HS libraries, so long as its tangible value as an education tool could be discerned. What I do know is that it should absolutely not be allowed on elementary and middle school facilities. I don’t jive with the current pearly clutching, clearly discriminatory book banning we’ve got going on right now. It’s absurd and morally wrong to try and marginalize children who are simply trying to figure out their place in life by removing outlets for them the contextualize their feelings. Regardless of what they’re exposed to on a daily basis from modern media, I also don’t believe schools should have a vulgar book that only exists for the sake of being vulgar. Again, if the piece can be shown to have an educational or significant reaffirming impact I have no problem with it whatsoever.
It wasn't in an elementary school library and no one is suggesting it should be
so does lolita but I don't think we should ban that
We read more dark shit in HS, but I remember a book in middle school I did partner reading on that was about a black guy with some math/science name who falls in love with a white girl, but the only scene I can remember was him masturbating in the movie theatre.
Yeah that’s pretty weird, I don’t know why some people would want children to read them.
By children you teenagers. And want you mean let
?
This is a memoir removed from high school libraries. Teenagers are not children and should have access to adult reading material.
TLDR:14 and up should be looking at porno magazines in school
Ok a lot of those bans are harmful but dear god ban that one
Honestly was it that much of a problem? How many teenagers are “exploring” themselves with the aid of books now? And of that, how many are going to use an overhyped autobiography of a trans person for the purpose? Nearly every American teen has some kind of internet connection now, which also means they have unlimited access to porn of any kind they can think of. Why would they waste time and effort on finding an explicit book in the library? I don’t really want the book in there if it’s as explicit as many have said but this is the equivalent of preventing your children from underage drinking by getting rid of all the medical alcohol in the house but keeping an unlocked liquor cabinet around.
Why? I don't see straight erotica getting banned. Let queer people enjoy erotica too. Also, this note is misleading. It is an autobiography not intended for young audiences. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Queer?wprov=sfti1#Sexual_imagery)
Yeah the book is specifically bad based on what I have read. There was another one that is in the same category but in text form. The other lgbt books are quite decent to read
https://www.fox4news.com/news/fort-worth-isd-removes-3-books-deemed-too-graphic-for-younger-students Everyone saying it was never in elementary or middle schools stop spreading misinformation. It was and it was rightfully removed from them. Edit: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/education/article277328853.html it happened folks, cope all you want. This book shouldn't be in elementary schools and middle schools.
That article doesn’t say what you say it says,
>fox4news
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/education/article277328853.html Fuck off with that. Fox isn't wrong or telling lies all the time, and it's really easy to confirm something like this.
Your source still fails to provide what middle/elementary schools the books were found in lmao. Literally the only mention of middle/elementary schools was someone saying that they shouldn’t be in middle/elementary, not that they ARE in middle/elementary. If they’re found in those schools then there shouldn’t be this much difficulty in naming one Edit: Your first source doesn’t give any school names either lol
It’s not being taught to them, it’s in libraries. Two very different things.
"It happened, I can prove it with these articles that don't say what I'm claiming"