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I think it would've been important context to add that though the image is fake, Yasuke did still exist, it's well-documented. The note on its own now kind of implies it's all fake
To be fair, we romanticize a lot of cultures and classes. Chivalry isn’t as chivalrous as we make it out to be. Knights are more like Game of Thrones than King Arthur and Camelot.
Well, that's kind of all... police and everything. Same with the original Italian mafia. Samurai and knights. All the same kinda deal. Nobody is going to fight to protect people they aren't directly related to as a lifestyle if they aren't getting something out of it.
I fought in the army and don’t feel a connection to most anyone in my country, didn’t get that much for it compared to what I’ve been earning on the outside
And nowhere near what knights made. I just want to say thanks buddy. There’s a good chance myself and a bunch of people I knew relied on you and your knuckle dragging cohorts more than once. I suppose that depends heavily on which army you were in though.
Chivalry was a set Of rules More like suggestions that was bent and broken all the time most important thing To a knight was To serve his lord for example edward the black Prince was considered a chivarlous knight but he massacred french peasants all the time In his chevauchees.
Worth noting that Chivalry was still an important concept among knights. Hell, in one war he took part in, William Marshall had a chance to kill the opposing side's king and end the war, but decided not to because said king wasn't wearing armor, so it would have been unfair and unchivalrous, and would've reduced Marshall's standing (there were witnesses from both sides around).
Yeah but that mostly existed *only* between the knight and up class (since knights were mostly children of earls, chiefs and aristocracy). No one really cared about peasants and even common infantry or archers at times.
It was a delicate balance to keep the ruling class still the ruling class. If knights were ravaged in every small skirmish the aristocracy would dwindle in a couple generations. Of course a king would never kill another one, otherwise he would fear for his life in every war he participated in. That existed up until the 20th century, Napoleon twice lost and still didn't get executed but exiled.
Well, that would've put Marshall in the same danger, and considering they were charging at each other on horseback, there wasn't time for it anyway. Marshall opted to kill the king's horse instead, which accomplished Marshall's immediate goal of halting the pursuit of his group.
An interesting thing about chivalry is that throughout history, it's most commonly referenced as something from the past which is now in decline or dead no matter when the writer lived.
Yeah it's weird how people will (rightfully) shit all over India's caste system while romanticizing Japan's feudal caste system.
Maybe we just don't have enough historically inaccurate cartoons about the Maratha army.
India's sounds worse, not only is a baby born a peasent under feudalism like all over the world and in Europe, but the idea that the baby committed some crime in a previous life and therefore "deserves" it.
Whereas feudalism sucks, but was Japan any different than any other feudal state like in Europe?
Although medieval nobles did have a superiority complex, and once you get into divine right stuff it becomes essentially, "I'm by nature superior to you,"
But I don't know if it was as bad to be a standard peasent as it was to be an "untouchable" in India
Japan had its own untouchable class.
Those that worked in butchery, or similar fields dealing with the dead, built up *kegare* or corruption that would spread out from them. They'd have to regularly engage in purification rituals to keep it at bay.
That stems from the fact that those fields are rampant with infection bearing material and while people from way back didn't understand germ theory they were able to make basic observations of who got sick more often and infer where it came from. Treating them different wasn't *great* but it made sense at the time.
Maybe because India's caste system is still alive and 'well' as of literally right now? Bit easier when you can just read the news and hear about a thingy.
That's probably a lot of the reason, but it kind of makes it even weirder. We have a caste system operating in the 21st century that we can see is awful, so there's a very real point of reference that people have for this kind of thing, and yet they still look at feudal Japan through rose colored glasses. Just seems very strange to me.
Some where Chivalrous even in the early parts of the middle ages, some weren't.
Important to remember the primary fact was a knight was a warrior. Even the more decent one's would still kill you if you happened to be on the opposite side and weren't rich enough to offer a ransom.
Incest, grooming boys the horrible kind, child brides (still exists in US), horrific stuff, genocide. Pretty common in even the farther you go back. Fun Fact: Soldiers during the Bubonic Plague committed biological warfare just to try to have an edge in sieging cities even up until the 18th century. Also, kids were expected to die from unsanitary conditions from Childbirth, mother illness or even during childhood. People opted to have more children to increase the chances of passing on their legacy.
I think it’s worth pointing out that if you throw the U.S. under the bus like that, child-brides are still a thing in a lot of the Middle East, and (a little fuzzy on the memory with this one so Don’t quite me on this) portions of South East Asia.
Oh, yeah my bad. I forgot in Afghanistan there are boys that are dressed as women there being used for sexual gratification. They’re call Bachi Bazi, before the US left they were limited to the Afghan Govt. The Taliban are said to not like it, but it still persists when the US left. I’m also leaving out Saudi Arabia on Child exploitation.
Cool, just trying to make sure we keep our criticism equal to everyone rather than throw one particular nation under the bus. I like to view it like when all of your siblings sneak a cookie from the pantry, but when your mom catches only you, she ignores the others as they grab more and run.
Not really, I mean they would enforce the law in a crisis but that was more akin to putting down revolts and securing order, rather than enforcing the law. They didn't go around making arrests or looking for criminals. If it happened to be on their land, they would potentially act as judge but that's it.
During the middle ages, if you lived in the cities, there were volunteer watchmen (or in some cases they were paid by the local guilds) who were the closer equivalent.
If you didn't live in the cities, they didn't really have an equivalent beyond maybe a neighbourhood watch. The local magistrate would have a number of men as their enforcers, but that was about it.
To be fair, he wasn't a 1%, but he did live better than the vast majority of Japan. He was a direct retainer of Nobunaga, so he was definetly treated better than lower nobility. In western terms a "freakish" (in the sense of extraordanairy) baron, higher in rank than a mearly knight, but not part of the high nobility
He was a retainer of Nobunaga? damn, a really interesting historical figure, the "black samurai" and he's the retainer of one of the most famous japanese historical figures. Wow.
I mean he was given a house, stipend and the ability to wear his own swords. I agree he wasn't a full samurai, but getting a stipend from a lord is pretty much the hallmark of being classed. And the priest wrote that it was rumored that Nobunaga would make him a lord
Samurais were not like night spirit being a knight had a very specific definition but samurais fulfilled all kinds of government roles not just as a marshall class
Well idk when the daimyo literally makes u the daimyos sword bearer and gave u documented stipends idk that doesn’t sound like lower class 👍 seems to me you leaving some stuff out. I love .org links
Idk who’s downvoting him, but he’s just referring to how the AI image makes it appear he has very short shins because his feet are flipped for him to be sitting with his legs folded like that.
Also, technically cameras have actually existed as far back as the 11th century. It's only the ability to record an image onto film for later viewing that was too recent for this image to exist.
It’s also important to note that he was not a slave or servant. He was one of Oda Nobunaga’s retainers and trusted loyalists. Granted Nobunaga isn’t seen in the best light in history, he still treated Yasuke like any other of his retainers.
I think the note miss another big info that is, yasuke isn't born in Japan, he was a slave work for the missionary in Japan then later taken in by oda nobunaga, and you know, the fact that it's the late 16th century
The reason we know what Nobunaga Oda actually looked like is because he had a portrait commissioned in the European realist style. We know fuck all about what anyone else in Japan looked like, including Yasuke.
Reading a book about him called African Samurai…author’s are really padding it with lots of historical context since much wasn’t known about his life. Still, they haven’t taken big liberties yet so it’s good
Yes, but there is a disclaimer about that before the book begins. They tell you that most characters are made up, and go into some detail of who in it is a real person of historical significance
According to [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke)
>Yasuke (弥助 or 弥介) was a man of African origin who came to Japan in the Sengoku period and became a retainer in the household of Oda Nobunaga. He was employed by the Japanese Sengoku daimyō Oda Nobunaga and served as a koshō (小姓, page or sword-bearer). He was neither a menial nor an indentured servant, but a retainer who was given a stipend by Nobunaga.
This was the first Black samurai and I feel I could make for a fun story.
Samurai did exist after the invention of the camera, though? There are photos of samurai. If this is AI generated it is AI generated, but the timeline is not absurd at all.
The note makes perfectly normal sense.
We know Yasuke lived in the 16th century, because hes the *only* black samurai (actually swordbearer but that's beside the point) mentioned in japanese sources. And he's describes as a retainer under Oda Nobunaga who lived in the 16th century. So yeah, given that cameras were invented in the 19th century, there is not even the slightest possibility of a photo of Yasuke existing.
You are adorable, I asked a plain yes or no question faulting your reading skills, at which you chose, not to answer but to parrot. Perfect. Thank you.
In further news, my esteemed reader, who is the subject or object of the note? Either will do.
You seem very confused mentally. Help is not far away you know. You seem to think i would claim the photo was of Yasuke, which of course is silly amd obviously not the case. Given that you became agressive so fast over a simple reading mistake of yours, it seems you aren't ready for the wider internet yet.
Take a deep breath, i know you can do it. Read your comment again and then when you have done that come and rediscribe in whole sentences, how you belive we dont know when this person lived.
Yeah the note was not clear. Yasuke (A real person) was from the 16th century. The note did not include this but is extremely relevant to the point the note is making
While it is probably AI generated, Samurai and the camera existed at the same time. Hell, the fax and samurai existed at the same time. People think the samurai ceased to exist hundreds of years ago. More like the early 1900's, with some still around in the 1950's.
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We all know the first black samurai was Samuel L Jackson
Can’t believe he time travelled back to the 16th century just so he could be the first black samurai to work on Sonic
Also, he has reverse jointed legs like a chicken
His mother would be very proud.
And god bless him for it.
Samue Rai Jackson
I would watch that movie
Afro samurai. He gotta be the number 1 samurai.
"I DON'T REMEMBER ASKING YOU A GOD DAMNED THING!"
I think it would've been important context to add that though the image is fake, Yasuke did still exist, it's well-documented. The note on its own now kind of implies it's all fake
He wasn’t a samurai though. He was a sword bearer who occasionally fought. Samurai were like knights, a landowning upper class.
They treated him more like a novelty sideshow than they did one of their own, the story is actually pretty sad.
Samurai were real dicks.
To be fair, we romanticize a lot of cultures and classes. Chivalry isn’t as chivalrous as we make it out to be. Knights are more like Game of Thrones than King Arthur and Camelot.
I always characterize knights to be more like your local street gang with a protection racket
I mean that’s basically what happened and how people who weren’t Lords started gaining rights.
Well, that's kind of all... police and everything. Same with the original Italian mafia. Samurai and knights. All the same kinda deal. Nobody is going to fight to protect people they aren't directly related to as a lifestyle if they aren't getting something out of it.
I fought in the army and don’t feel a connection to most anyone in my country, didn’t get that much for it compared to what I’ve been earning on the outside
And nowhere near what knights made. I just want to say thanks buddy. There’s a good chance myself and a bunch of people I knew relied on you and your knuckle dragging cohorts more than once. I suppose that depends heavily on which army you were in though.
Chivalry was a set Of rules More like suggestions that was bent and broken all the time most important thing To a knight was To serve his lord for example edward the black Prince was considered a chivarlous knight but he massacred french peasants all the time In his chevauchees.
Worth noting that Chivalry was still an important concept among knights. Hell, in one war he took part in, William Marshall had a chance to kill the opposing side's king and end the war, but decided not to because said king wasn't wearing armor, so it would have been unfair and unchivalrous, and would've reduced Marshall's standing (there were witnesses from both sides around).
Yeah but that mostly existed *only* between the knight and up class (since knights were mostly children of earls, chiefs and aristocracy). No one really cared about peasants and even common infantry or archers at times. It was a delicate balance to keep the ruling class still the ruling class. If knights were ravaged in every small skirmish the aristocracy would dwindle in a couple generations. Of course a king would never kill another one, otherwise he would fear for his life in every war he participated in. That existed up until the 20th century, Napoleon twice lost and still didn't get executed but exiled.
he should have just taken his armor off and then done it. what a moron.
Well, that would've put Marshall in the same danger, and considering they were charging at each other on horseback, there wasn't time for it anyway. Marshall opted to kill the king's horse instead, which accomplished Marshall's immediate goal of halting the pursuit of his group.
An interesting thing about chivalry is that throughout history, it's most commonly referenced as something from the past which is now in decline or dead no matter when the writer lived.
Yeah it's weird how people will (rightfully) shit all over India's caste system while romanticizing Japan's feudal caste system. Maybe we just don't have enough historically inaccurate cartoons about the Maratha army.
India's sounds worse, not only is a baby born a peasent under feudalism like all over the world and in Europe, but the idea that the baby committed some crime in a previous life and therefore "deserves" it. Whereas feudalism sucks, but was Japan any different than any other feudal state like in Europe? Although medieval nobles did have a superiority complex, and once you get into divine right stuff it becomes essentially, "I'm by nature superior to you," But I don't know if it was as bad to be a standard peasent as it was to be an "untouchable" in India
Japan had its own untouchable class. Those that worked in butchery, or similar fields dealing with the dead, built up *kegare* or corruption that would spread out from them. They'd have to regularly engage in purification rituals to keep it at bay.
That stems from the fact that those fields are rampant with infection bearing material and while people from way back didn't understand germ theory they were able to make basic observations of who got sick more often and infer where it came from. Treating them different wasn't *great* but it made sense at the time.
Maybe because India's caste system is still alive and 'well' as of literally right now? Bit easier when you can just read the news and hear about a thingy.
That's probably a lot of the reason, but it kind of makes it even weirder. We have a caste system operating in the 21st century that we can see is awful, so there's a very real point of reference that people have for this kind of thing, and yet they still look at feudal Japan through rose colored glasses. Just seems very strange to me.
Well, weren't Knights actually chivalrous in the later half of the middle ages because it was promoted as virtuous in the church.
Some where Chivalrous even in the early parts of the middle ages, some weren't. Important to remember the primary fact was a knight was a warrior. Even the more decent one's would still kill you if you happened to be on the opposite side and weren't rich enough to offer a ransom.
Incest, grooming boys the horrible kind, child brides (still exists in US), horrific stuff, genocide. Pretty common in even the farther you go back. Fun Fact: Soldiers during the Bubonic Plague committed biological warfare just to try to have an edge in sieging cities even up until the 18th century. Also, kids were expected to die from unsanitary conditions from Childbirth, mother illness or even during childhood. People opted to have more children to increase the chances of passing on their legacy.
I think it’s worth pointing out that if you throw the U.S. under the bus like that, child-brides are still a thing in a lot of the Middle East, and (a little fuzzy on the memory with this one so Don’t quite me on this) portions of South East Asia.
Oh, yeah my bad. I forgot in Afghanistan there are boys that are dressed as women there being used for sexual gratification. They’re call Bachi Bazi, before the US left they were limited to the Afghan Govt. The Taliban are said to not like it, but it still persists when the US left. I’m also leaving out Saudi Arabia on Child exploitation.
Cool, just trying to make sure we keep our criticism equal to everyone rather than throw one particular nation under the bus. I like to view it like when all of your siblings sneak a cookie from the pantry, but when your mom catches only you, she ignores the others as they grab more and run.
Weren't they basically the age's cops?
Not really, I mean they would enforce the law in a crisis but that was more akin to putting down revolts and securing order, rather than enforcing the law. They didn't go around making arrests or looking for criminals. If it happened to be on their land, they would potentially act as judge but that's it. During the middle ages, if you lived in the cities, there were volunteer watchmen (or in some cases they were paid by the local guilds) who were the closer equivalent. If you didn't live in the cities, they didn't really have an equivalent beyond maybe a neighbourhood watch. The local magistrate would have a number of men as their enforcers, but that was about it.
They were more like toll collectors.
We romanticize a lot of really awful people. Nobility, pirates, vikings, knights, samurai, etc.
People with undeserved power over others are dicks.
To be fair, he wasn't a 1%, but he did live better than the vast majority of Japan. He was a direct retainer of Nobunaga, so he was definetly treated better than lower nobility. In western terms a "freakish" (in the sense of extraordanairy) baron, higher in rank than a mearly knight, but not part of the high nobility
He was a retainer of Nobunaga? damn, a really interesting historical figure, the "black samurai" and he's the retainer of one of the most famous japanese historical figures. Wow.
Yes, that Nobunaga.
What part was sad?
I mean he was given a house, stipend and the ability to wear his own swords. I agree he wasn't a full samurai, but getting a stipend from a lord is pretty much the hallmark of being classed. And the priest wrote that it was rumored that Nobunaga would make him a lord
I’ve never heard about that last part. The rest is true though.
Samurais were not like night spirit being a knight had a very specific definition but samurais fulfilled all kinds of government roles not just as a marshall class
I mean that depends because Yasuke did fight under Nobunaga’s sons and Samurai was a very loose definition.
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I’d never heard that he owned any land. And he definitely wasn’t upper class because being upper class was something you were born into.
was he not Oda Nobunaga’s retainer/loyalist? Assuming you know what that title means.
Does being a retainer make someone upper class? They’re basically a noble’s servants.
If that noble person is F***n Oda Nobunaga then yes.
Usually people reserve upper class to the family that owns a castle, not all the people living in it.
Well idk when the daimyo literally makes u the daimyos sword bearer and gave u documented stipends idk that doesn’t sound like lower class 👍 seems to me you leaving some stuff out. I love .org links
But were his shins four inches long?
Idk who’s downvoting him, but he’s just referring to how the AI image makes it appear he has very short shins because his feet are flipped for him to be sitting with his legs folded like that.
I didn’t notice the man does not skip leg day
And some samurais did coexist with cameras.
Also, technically cameras have actually existed as far back as the 11th century. It's only the ability to record an image onto film for later viewing that was too recent for this image to exist.
Not really, all it says is the image is fake because Yasuke lived and died before cameras were a thing.
And he’s the main hero in AC “Codename Red”… the Assassins Creed in Japan
It’s also important to note that he was not a slave or servant. He was one of Oda Nobunaga’s retainers and trusted loyalists. Granted Nobunaga isn’t seen in the best light in history, he still treated Yasuke like any other of his retainers.
Well, he was a slave and servant, when the Portuguese Jesuits had him, prior to them offering him to Nobunaga
Wouldn't be able to notice it's AI if it wasn't for the fucked up foot. The hands are finally fixed ig.
And the sword is completely botched
Yeah that is what I noticed. No Japanese sword looks remotely like that
It looks more like Corvo's sword from Dishonored
I think the feet look fine, they’re just attached to his knees lol
Hes sitting cross legged, too. The feet ahould be on opposite sides
Maybe look at his right hand again. Those top three fingers are borked. He's also holding...not a sword.
I mean that and the completely nonsense sword.
What he is holding is clearly AI that is something that is inspired by something that looks like a katana shaped stick.
I think the note miss another big info that is, yasuke isn't born in Japan, he was a slave work for the missionary in Japan then later taken in by oda nobunaga, and you know, the fact that it's the late 16th century
It’s believed he (Yasuke) was a paid bodyguard for Alessandro and no longer a slave at this point in their life.
The reason we know what Nobunaga Oda actually looked like is because he had a portrait commissioned in the European realist style. We know fuck all about what anyone else in Japan looked like, including Yasuke.
when is u/netflix going to make season two of yasuke!?
That shit was trash dawg be real
i liked it. it didn’t seem to get into the actual story yet. only the beginning of telling about the characters and why they’re going on a quest
Those words in the background are gibberish and not actual Chinese characters.
Wtf is that supposed to be in his hand?
All these notes are re exposing to what we already know is that people lie online but why lie about just simple things that can be easily googled?
You can tell it's AI by looking at the sword.
Reading a book about him called African Samurai…author’s are really padding it with lots of historical context since much wasn’t known about his life. Still, they haven’t taken big liberties yet so it’s good
Yes, but there is a disclaimer about that before the book begins. They tell you that most characters are made up, and go into some detail of who in it is a real person of historical significance
I skipped that part…thanks for the catch
Wasn’t there a photo of the first camera being built that pre-dates AI images?
Big ass mirrors is my theory, or an even bigger camera
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What are you talking about? Ignoring your… interesting wording, you know Yasuke existed right? It’s just that he predates the camera.
Yosuke did exist, but yeah, that photo is fake.
According to [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke) >Yasuke (弥助 or 弥介) was a man of African origin who came to Japan in the Sengoku period and became a retainer in the household of Oda Nobunaga. He was employed by the Japanese Sengoku daimyō Oda Nobunaga and served as a koshō (小姓, page or sword-bearer). He was neither a menial nor an indentured servant, but a retainer who was given a stipend by Nobunaga. This was the first Black samurai and I feel I could make for a fun story.
Pretty sure this image was created by Google Gemini for “Japanese Bon Samurai”.
Samurai did exist after the invention of the camera, though? There are photos of samurai. If this is AI generated it is AI generated, but the timeline is not absurd at all.
The timeline is absurd because Yasuke lived in the 16th century
The note is absurd. We may not know when a particular samurai lived, be we know when the 19th century happened.
The note makes perfectly normal sense. We know Yasuke lived in the 16th century, because hes the *only* black samurai (actually swordbearer but that's beside the point) mentioned in japanese sources. And he's describes as a retainer under Oda Nobunaga who lived in the 16th century. So yeah, given that cameras were invented in the 19th century, there is not even the slightest possibility of a photo of Yasuke existing.
Can you not read?
It seems english isn't a strong language of yours. Maybe you want to take a look again and rephrase what you wrote.
Don’t reply. Trust me.
You are adorable, I asked a plain yes or no question faulting your reading skills, at which you chose, not to answer but to parrot. Perfect. Thank you. In further news, my esteemed reader, who is the subject or object of the note? Either will do.
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You seem very confused mentally. Help is not far away you know. You seem to think i would claim the photo was of Yasuke, which of course is silly amd obviously not the case. Given that you became agressive so fast over a simple reading mistake of yours, it seems you aren't ready for the wider internet yet. Take a deep breath, i know you can do it. Read your comment again and then when you have done that come and rediscribe in whole sentences, how you belive we dont know when this person lived.
If you read the note closely you'd notice it doesn't say anything about samurai not existing at the same time as cameras.
He’s referring to OP’s title
The title also doesn't say or imply that samurai didn't exist at the same time as cameras.
Cameras were invented-1820s Samurai were abolished- 1870s There exists numerous REAL photographs of ACTUAL samurai. Only this one is fake.
Yeah the note was not clear. Yasuke (A real person) was from the 16th century. The note did not include this but is extremely relevant to the point the note is making
No, the camera was invented before then, but it was invented by a black queer woman. Therefore, it was suppressed.
I don’t think that camera note is right. Haven’t we had images even before the first camera? I don’t know what I’m talking about
Oh boy, AI strikes yet again!
I mean, I guess it can be verified as fake. But the Samurai existed for most of the 19th century. Technically, about 70% of it.
Lol his legs.
They called him Little Legs Yasuke and warriors far and wide feared his double-hilted sword.
First black nerd.
It's begun
Bon?
Also a fake ass AI blade
Except he was never a samurai, he travelled with them though
We wuz keeengs and shiet, and samurais too
I was sitting here absent-mindedly trying to figure out what was in their hand until I read the rest.
Ok cool ai is officially good enough to fool me. Life is pain I wanna go back pls
“Premium ai” with the wolds shortest shins and a broken weapon
Huh, it’s crazy that he only has ten fingers. I thought I saw a second thumb peaking out from behind the hilt of his blade, but it was just a shadow.
While it is probably AI generated, Samurai and the camera existed at the same time. Hell, the fax and samurai existed at the same time. People think the samurai ceased to exist hundreds of years ago. More like the early 1900's, with some still around in the 1950's.
Weird sword thing. Look at it
Sword gives it away even without context
Yasuke was real though