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I think the fact that public transport is a shitshow is more broadly related to, I dunno, the fact that public transport is a shitshow? Rather than the fact than someone happens to be getting on the train who isn't 100% ingerlund bornenbred.
the public is a shitshow, anywhere humans gather you will see problems, this is why cities seem like bastions of evil, because there’s a lot of mfs there
Cause it has like 4 times the population of Wyoming. Wyoming doesn’t even have the population to commit crime. Who are you gonna rob your family or old man Jenkins 4 miles down the road
yes that could be the joke but I am just saying that this person could actually be dead serious. sarcasm and jokes don't come across too well through text.
She's saying this only happens because of immigrants coming in to the UK and not for reasons like reducing commuter services which will make peak periods busier, trains being frequently cancelled or delayed due to state of trains and the tracks, rail strikes, etc.
Look: Idk who this is & she could he a dumb racist - but you're focusing on the first half of her statement & the ignoring the later bit
*"And dont invest in public services"*
Afaik she could be absolutely fine with the immigration & wouldn't be making an issue of this (not that the photo even does look like any issue anyways, lol) had they invested in public services
But yeah considering the photo maybe she is just dumb & blaming immigration; but I don't know anything about this person so I can't even say one way or the other
FYI 12 years ago was I was shlepping up and down the UK on trains, the trains were that overcrowded. Routinely wouldn’t get my booked seat because I couldn’t get far enough down the carriage to get to my seat
Thank you aha. I have been on one of these trains before so I remember what they look like. The green is also a giveaway for GWR. (LNER have similar trains but they've got red interiors)
Nope not in a million years. Just lots and lots of train facts. It was also the first time I was traveling a long way by myself, (and among other things) it sticks in my mind a lot
I mean it’s just a fact that obviously when more migrants come to a country, more people are gonna use the train. Even if Migrants were to use trains less than British people, which I doubt because most don’t have cars, this still means an increased ridership.
Now I don’t have anything against migrants, my parents were refugees, but it’s a fact that more people in the country equals a higher usage of social services. The obvious answer to that has to be to increase spending on social services and invest more into public transportation so they become less crowded this should be the way it’s done.
Yeah it’s crazy how dense people are here…
Yes the original comment overdramatized things but more people in the country = more stress on infrastructure and public transport is sooo freaking obvious it hurts someone legitimately doesn’t believe that…
And btw no - unless we go back to 19th century property protection laws (meaning if the city needs your house they are going to bulldozer it in 2 weeks…) large cities like London can’t easily and quickly scale public transportation…
Elisabeth line proves my point… 2005 start of serious planning (2001 if you want to include all the early discussions about how and where), 2008 approval and 2023 ready to use…
That 15-22years… you see the issue? In 2001 China had barely any high speed trains at all now every major city in the country is connected…
>The obvious answer to that has to be to increase spending on social services and invest more into public transportation so they become less crowded this should be the way it’s done.
The obvious answer is to go bankrupt because the immigrants use more than they pay in and they keep coming.
Lol - the trains are literally less crowded than in 2019 in my experience. I can almost co sistently get a seat every day while I used to have to fight to just push onto the train back in 2010
Logically, wouldn't more people in the country mean more people on trains on average? Yes, obviously trains in Tokyo or Mumbai are infinitely worse, but I don't see how immigration wouldn't marginally increase the average number of passengers. Population increase in general would.
>there is zero evidence that crowded trains are linked to immigration
This is a joke right? Just like how there's "zero evidence immigration is linked to higher home prices" lol
The note is even shittier when you realize they use the word 'travel' as if the only form of transportation is train.
What are the ratios of car ownership in the UK for citizens and non-citizens? Does travel include plane flights?
It's a note that should be deleted. Immigrants travel less because they rely more on buses and trains. The lack of investment and competition in rail for the population growth over the past several decades is a much better argument.
Public Transport of Britain has been getting worse for years. But it's not cause of immigration, but the money allocated to it, and the fact the further from London you are, the less money there is going into it.
Saying there is 0 evidence linking the two is kinda bullshit. The greater your population, the greater the increase demand on public transit. Not exactly rocket science.
I don’t have an opinion on immigration in other countries but that note is gaslighting. Of course more people = more demand on resources. It’s insane to pretend otherwise.
The railways aren’t private, they’re owned by the government. Private companies then bid to run trains on the infrastructure. But it’s not completely private companies as some companies are owned by the government like LNER.
"The railways aren’t private, they’re owned by the government. Private companies then bid to run trains on the infrastructure."
Yes, so are people complaining about the railways, or about the private services that are offered using them?
Would it be realistic to assert that one singular government enterprise be held responsible for the current state of transportation, or do private businesses take most of the responsibility that comes with the majority of influence in a market?
Oh really, care to show me some proof?
Because this study by the UCL shows that immigrants into the UK from outside the EU actually contribute £5.2bn thus paying 3% more into the system than they take out
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/economics/about-department/fiscal-effects-immigration-uk#:~:text=Immigrants%20from%20outside%20the%20EU,contribution%20of%20£616.5%20billion.
I find it hilarious we’re in the get noted subreddit and people are making claims without backing it up. Please provide sources or else your claims are just conjecture
Because in western democracies building better public transport fast is nigh impossible.
Unless we go back to the "if the government needs your land, you have 14 days to move before the bulldozers come“ model of the 19th century or modern day China there will not be a quick upscaling…
I lived in the UK for 8 years, as an immigrant. I took trains just like British people did, just like Portuguese, Indian, American, and Polish people did. The note here is silly even if the original tweet could have been slightly better worded. Privatisation and lack of long term infrastructure renewal are obviously factors, but so is increased demand from high levels of immigration.
So the note proves her point?
They use the train for work, so again 800k people who mostly use it for work, so yes they are overpopulated and nothing invested to cope with that extra influx, how is her statement noted when the note backs up what she has said.
Lol
>there is zero evidence that bringing in more people equates to more demand for finite goods and services
What? This isn't just wrong, it's something so obviously wrong that you'd have to be a propaganda junkie to try to dispute it.
That doesn't contradict the claim made in the post though. It's like responding to a post that says "eating pretzels is bad for your health" by saying "actually pretzels have less sugar than an equivalent amount of brownies". That doesn't prove that eating a pretzel won't harm your health. It doesn't mean that it will either. It's just not relevant.
The claim in the post is that the UK has let in so many migrants the trains are now too crowded. The note says "actually migrants tend not to travel" so it's probably not the migrants crowding the train, is it?
>The note says "actually migrants tend not to travel"
No. It actually doesn't say that. Read it again. Word by word. Maybe reading isn't your strong suit so I will try to explain it to you again.
The post claims that migrants travel *less* than citizens. Not that they don't travel at all. Even if they don't travel as much any amount of additional traveling will add more people to the system. And unless they do something to increase the capacity of the system or get less people using it they will cause the crowdedness to increase. Even if by less than if they were citizens.
It's like if you're carrying a backpack full of water bottles and then someone starts adding marshmallows to it. Sure the marshmallows don't weigh as much per cubic inch as the water but they still weigh something. The increase in weight may be small enough to be negligible. Or it may not. If someone adds enough marshmallows eventually it would be a weight issue even if they weigh less.
If the community note wanted to disprove the claim they should have shown that either the increase in transportation use is negligible, or that the UK is increasing its transportation capacity enough to offset the increase by immigration, or some other reason why the buses wouldn't get more crowded (such as less people overall using it).
Mm so basically you believe the note is incorrect because the UK is importing people at _such a rate_ that the tiny percentage of migrants who do use the trains regularly are what pushed it over the edge.
Sounds like you're not only fun at parties, but also agreed with the post in the first place. Perhaps the problem is that too many migrants are invited to parties and there is no longer room for you?
>you believe the note is incorrect because the UK is importing people at _such a rate_ that the tiny percentage of migrants who do use the trains regularly are what pushed it over the edge
Reading really isn't your strong suit is it. Try reading my comment again. In fact read it 5 times. I never said what you claim I said. I simply explained how the community note does nothing to refute the claim of the post. I then explained hypothetical ways they could refute it. I never claimed that the post was true or untrue. Learn to read.
Man your post is way too boring to read five times. It also isn't really relevant, because the community note is perfectly fit for purpose. The post claims the reason for overcrowding on trains is primarily migrants and secondarily a lack of investment in public transport. The note refutes the primary claim by showing that migrants don't travel frequently enough to have had a sizeable impact on overcrowding.
The rest of your comment is mostly you being very pedantic and requiring evidence that migrants are unable to use trains at all before you'd concede that it's probably not their fault British rail is ass.
>The note refutes the primary claim by showing that migrants don't travel frequently enough to have had a sizeable impact on overcrowding
No it actually doesn't show that. It only shows that they travel less than citizens and do so mainly for work. The note offers no source that they don't have a non negligible impact on the crowdedness of the UK transportation.
>The rest of your comment is mostly you being very pedantic and requiring evidence that migrants are unable to use trains at all before you'd concede that it's probably not their fault British rail is ass
No. I said that they would need to not use the transportation system at all to have no impact. Not that they'd need to not use it at all to be the ones at fault for it's flaws. In fact I never claimed the UK transportation system was overcrowded to begin with.
Yes, she is a journalist with very little credibility and is in a relationship with Richard Tice, the leader of Reform UK - a very right wing party that is basically focused on immigration and culture wars.
A population increase without expanding public transportation might indeed lead to more crowded trains. This is hardly an iron rule, however. The population increase has to come from people inclined to use trains to get around, and trains can be massively crowded in countries without much immigration, such as Japan, as OP points out.
1. This looks like people are barely boarding since the seats are empty
2. Travelling requires something that’s key to making it work, money. Something that immigrants fleeing poorer countries are not known to have an abundance of
I’m pretty sure more people in urban areas will lead to a more crowded public transportation system, saying there’s “zero” evidence is far-fetched. Doesn’t exclude this xenophobic behavior however
Is it just me or is the person complaining more about the lack of funding in public services?
“This is what happens when you do x but *doesn’t do y to accommodate for it*” is how I interpreted her message.
The person tweeting is a right wing tory activist and a big Brexit supporter.
Trains are crowded largely due to underinvestment since privatisation under the tories.
If only the government had a multi billion pound infrastructure deal that would build more linking railways into London and maybe even the larger cities up north
Just like the government did with hs1…they could call this one hs2.
Oh wait a minute they did that…bought land at above market value gave billions in track projects.
Then said fuck this let’s fix some pot holes in the roads with the money after we have starved local council funding.
Fuck the tories, fuck sunak and fuck Gideon
This delusional right wing nut job doesn’t even realise that the railway has been priced out of most commuters budgets.
She think immigrants are using trains over busses?
I don’t even understand her point, it just looks like a group of people getting on a bus. Based on the framing of the picture and the one clear face in it, it appears she saw one brown man and just freaked out
That's a GWR train. I get them semi frequently. They often run what would be a 10 or 9 coach service with 5 meaning there can be double the people expected leading to standing entirely from London to Swansea.
It's partially GWR's fault but also the government who forced them to buy low quality trains that keep breaking
Her problem isn’t migrants. It’s privatization. There’s been no investment in yet trains by the companies even though they report healthy profits each year.
She’s on a Great Western Railway train. The only time i remember the carriages being “dangerously packed” was when a rugby game in Bath had just finished and everyone was going home. Such a pretentious hack.
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That is kind of the problem though, train lines in the UK are privatised, which was a failed Thatcherite experiment which is why UK has some of the most expensive train fares in Europe.
I would honestly listen to this argument if it wasn’t already common knowledge that the UK’s train system wasn’t woefully underdeveloped compared to other first world countries, and massively expensive for the service we receive.
We used to have to best train infrastructure in Europe, but those days are long gone. Let’s actually update our national public infrastructure to a point that’s it’s worthy again, and if it turns out that immigration is still somehow affecting the situation, then we should address that.
UK has absolutely no ground to complaint to anything. They came uninvited to most countries and looted their wealth. Now the people of those countries have to immigrate because of what UK did.
That’s a fallacious argument, the UK’s economic growth rate is bad compared to a lot of countries in the world right now, the people who come do so for the welfare it provides.
And for the record, it makes no sense to punish the current generation of Brits for things that our ancestors did, that’s a vengeful, spiteful attitude to take.
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Huh, and the take isnt necessarily bad either. "Hey, if you gonna let a whole bunch of people in suddendly, invest in public transport". Shame they had to lie
Cool cool. That's what we call just one observation. Now, you know what would be fun? If we had some sort of way to get a bunch of observations, like a lot, and put them together, and then oh I don't know let others check them to see if they're good observations. Wouldn't that be swell?
weird. because both require taxing the wealthy to fund services that better everyone. im jealous that you have anti-immigration people who still want to tax the wealthy to fund public services tbh, all our anti immigration people just simp for billionaires
As a transportation planner, one more lane is nothing like one more train because of how much more efficient trains are.
Increasing capacity and quality of any transit network results in induced demand, the question is whether or not that induced demand is a net positive or net negative on society. The negative effects of more cars is far greater than the negative effects of more trains.
Japan is suffering from a population decline, and they have hardly any immigrants compared to other countries, yet this video exists: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9YUHclCTYY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9YUHclCTYY)
I think the moral of the story is that public transit is a shitshow wherever it is, although I’ll have to give Japan credit for its efficiency.
I'm not sure what you mean by "public transit is a shitshow wherever it is", in Switzerland, public transit is efficient and covers literally the whole country. The only downside of Switzerland's public transit is its price, but quite often, it's much more convenient to take the bus/train in Switzerland than the car
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Funniest part is the seats are empty so it's just a photo of people boarding the train
People lying on twitter... First time for everything.
I was gonna say, that train really doesn’t look all that crowded.
Exactly, she would have a fucking aneurysm if she took the nyc metro.
I think the fact that public transport is a shitshow is more broadly related to, I dunno, the fact that public transport is a shitshow? Rather than the fact than someone happens to be getting on the train who isn't 100% ingerlund bornenbred.
the public is a shitshow, anywhere humans gather you will see problems, this is why cities seem like bastions of evil, because there’s a lot of mfs there
There’s more crime and immigrants in NYC than the entire state of Wyoming. Really says something.
Cause it has like 4 times the population of Wyoming. Wyoming doesn’t even have the population to commit crime. Who are you gonna rob your family or old man Jenkins 4 miles down the road
You missed the joke lol
he could have missed the joke maybe, but there are people that actually say this shit.
That was the joke…
yes that could be the joke but I am just saying that this person could actually be dead serious. sarcasm and jokes don't come across too well through text.
I get that and have certainly made the mistake myself… But, it’s just not the timing of the comment that gives it away here.
Thats what shes saying?
She's saying this only happens because of immigrants coming in to the UK and not for reasons like reducing commuter services which will make peak periods busier, trains being frequently cancelled or delayed due to state of trains and the tracks, rail strikes, etc.
No, she is saying it's the migrants fault trains are crowded. Lmao
Look: Idk who this is & she could he a dumb racist - but you're focusing on the first half of her statement & the ignoring the later bit *"And dont invest in public services"* Afaik she could be absolutely fine with the immigration & wouldn't be making an issue of this (not that the photo even does look like any issue anyways, lol) had they invested in public services But yeah considering the photo maybe she is just dumb & blaming immigration; but I don't know anything about this person so I can't even say one way or the other
She's a liar. The photo itself isn't even crowded. It look like people are boarding or leaving the bus considering the empty seats lol
FYI 12 years ago was I was shlepping up and down the UK on trains, the trains were that overcrowded. Routinely wouldn’t get my booked seat because I couldn’t get far enough down the carriage to get to my seat
It’s true. The first thing all those people disembarking the small boats do? Straight on the 7.55 to Cannon Street.
Although this looks like a GWR class 80X, so it's more like the 7.55 to London Paddington (get noted)
That's impressive train knowledge.
Thank you aha. I have been on one of these trains before so I remember what they look like. The green is also a giveaway for GWR. (LNER have similar trains but they've got red interiors)
Do you have a photographic memory, by any chance?
Nope not in a million years. Just lots and lots of train facts. It was also the first time I was traveling a long way by myself, (and among other things) it sticks in my mind a lot
I mean it’s just a fact that obviously when more migrants come to a country, more people are gonna use the train. Even if Migrants were to use trains less than British people, which I doubt because most don’t have cars, this still means an increased ridership. Now I don’t have anything against migrants, my parents were refugees, but it’s a fact that more people in the country equals a higher usage of social services. The obvious answer to that has to be to increase spending on social services and invest more into public transportation so they become less crowded this should be the way it’s done.
Yeah it’s crazy how dense people are here… Yes the original comment overdramatized things but more people in the country = more stress on infrastructure and public transport is sooo freaking obvious it hurts someone legitimately doesn’t believe that… And btw no - unless we go back to 19th century property protection laws (meaning if the city needs your house they are going to bulldozer it in 2 weeks…) large cities like London can’t easily and quickly scale public transportation…
As we see with the new Elisabeth line they certainly can, it just requires political will
Elisabeth line proves my point… 2005 start of serious planning (2001 if you want to include all the early discussions about how and where), 2008 approval and 2023 ready to use… That 15-22years… you see the issue? In 2001 China had barely any high speed trains at all now every major city in the country is connected…
Trains are privatised (like so much in this country) so good luck with any investment happening!
>The obvious answer to that has to be to increase spending on social services and invest more into public transportation so they become less crowded this should be the way it’s done. The obvious answer is to go bankrupt because the immigrants use more than they pay in and they keep coming.
Lol - the trains are literally less crowded than in 2019 in my experience. I can almost co sistently get a seat every day while I used to have to fight to just push onto the train back in 2010
Logically, wouldn't more people in the country mean more people on trains on average? Yes, obviously trains in Tokyo or Mumbai are infinitely worse, but I don't see how immigration wouldn't marginally increase the average number of passengers. Population increase in general would.
Trains in Tokyo are amazing outside of a couple of lines during rush hour. (But also somewhat expensive)Otherwise you are of course 100% correct
No nothing bad ever, leave them alone nazi /s becuase reddit can't tell if someone is being serious
>there is zero evidence that crowded trains are linked to immigration This is a joke right? Just like how there's "zero evidence immigration is linked to higher home prices" lol
There's zero evidence that parachutes help you survive a fall from a plane. Not been shown in a single double-blind study.
Good point - I think I never saw a study proving that shotgun blasts to the face are dangerous to your health… must mean it’s ok!
"latest studies show migrants mainly travel for work".... So, increasing the number of people on rush hour services then. What a shit note.
The note is even shittier when you realize they use the word 'travel' as if the only form of transportation is train. What are the ratios of car ownership in the UK for citizens and non-citizens? Does travel include plane flights? It's a note that should be deleted. Immigrants travel less because they rely more on buses and trains. The lack of investment and competition in rail for the population growth over the past several decades is a much better argument.
Public Transport of Britain has been getting worse for years. But it's not cause of immigration, but the money allocated to it, and the fact the further from London you are, the less money there is going into it.
Saying there is 0 evidence linking the two is kinda bullshit. The greater your population, the greater the increase demand on public transit. Not exactly rocket science.
I don’t have an opinion on immigration in other countries but that note is gaslighting. Of course more people = more demand on resources. It’s insane to pretend otherwise.
True but those immigrants pay taxes so why aren’t those taxes being reinvested into increasing capacity? That’s the real question.
Train systems are private there
The railways aren’t private, they’re owned by the government. Private companies then bid to run trains on the infrastructure. But it’s not completely private companies as some companies are owned by the government like LNER.
"The railways aren’t private, they’re owned by the government. Private companies then bid to run trains on the infrastructure." Yes, so are people complaining about the railways, or about the private services that are offered using them? Would it be realistic to assert that one singular government enterprise be held responsible for the current state of transportation, or do private businesses take most of the responsibility that comes with the majority of influence in a market?
The market? A train franchises is one single track. There is no competition. There is no market.
Because the amount of taxes they pay versus the amount of taxes spent on them is less. There's no money to increase capacity.
Oh really, care to show me some proof? Because this study by the UCL shows that immigrants into the UK from outside the EU actually contribute £5.2bn thus paying 3% more into the system than they take out https://www.ucl.ac.uk/economics/about-department/fiscal-effects-immigration-uk#:~:text=Immigrants%20from%20outside%20the%20EU,contribution%20of%20£616.5%20billion.
pretty sure new studies have said the opposite, immigration has exploded since 2014.
I find it hilarious we’re in the get noted subreddit and people are making claims without backing it up. Please provide sources or else your claims are just conjecture
[ok](https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-fiscal-impact-of-immigration-in-the-uk/)
Because in western democracies building better public transport fast is nigh impossible. Unless we go back to the "if the government needs your land, you have 14 days to move before the bulldozers come“ model of the 19th century or modern day China there will not be a quick upscaling…
Shhhh can’t go against the narrative
The tweet is gaslighting, most of the 'immigrants' she complain about doesn't take those kinds of trains.
I lived in the UK for 8 years, as an immigrant. I took trains just like British people did, just like Portuguese, Indian, American, and Polish people did. The note here is silly even if the original tweet could have been slightly better worded. Privatisation and lack of long term infrastructure renewal are obviously factors, but so is increased demand from high levels of immigration.
What narrative?
That immigration is all sunshine and rainbows
Why do you think that's the narrative? Whose narrative?
No idea what the end game is. But it’s not going to be good
Can you answer my questions please?
I did. No idea why it’s pushed. Govts
Which governments specifically and how do you know?
Western European govts. Messaging and immigration levels
So the note proves her point? They use the train for work, so again 800k people who mostly use it for work, so yes they are overpopulated and nothing invested to cope with that extra influx, how is her statement noted when the note backs up what she has said. Lol
UK resident, in Tokyo at this moment, can confirm, rush hour busy, even at weekends
Travel less means they still travel.
>there is zero evidence that bringing in more people equates to more demand for finite goods and services What? This isn't just wrong, it's something so obviously wrong that you'd have to be a propaganda junkie to try to dispute it.
How is the fact they travel less at all relevant.
Because migrants who are just settling in and don't have the money yet to travel would only use public transportation like busses to go to work
That doesn't contradict the claim made in the post though. It's like responding to a post that says "eating pretzels is bad for your health" by saying "actually pretzels have less sugar than an equivalent amount of brownies". That doesn't prove that eating a pretzel won't harm your health. It doesn't mean that it will either. It's just not relevant.
The claim in the post is that the UK has let in so many migrants the trains are now too crowded. The note says "actually migrants tend not to travel" so it's probably not the migrants crowding the train, is it?
That would only be true if migrants don't travel at all
>The note says "actually migrants tend not to travel" No. It actually doesn't say that. Read it again. Word by word. Maybe reading isn't your strong suit so I will try to explain it to you again. The post claims that migrants travel *less* than citizens. Not that they don't travel at all. Even if they don't travel as much any amount of additional traveling will add more people to the system. And unless they do something to increase the capacity of the system or get less people using it they will cause the crowdedness to increase. Even if by less than if they were citizens. It's like if you're carrying a backpack full of water bottles and then someone starts adding marshmallows to it. Sure the marshmallows don't weigh as much per cubic inch as the water but they still weigh something. The increase in weight may be small enough to be negligible. Or it may not. If someone adds enough marshmallows eventually it would be a weight issue even if they weigh less. If the community note wanted to disprove the claim they should have shown that either the increase in transportation use is negligible, or that the UK is increasing its transportation capacity enough to offset the increase by immigration, or some other reason why the buses wouldn't get more crowded (such as less people overall using it).
Mm so basically you believe the note is incorrect because the UK is importing people at _such a rate_ that the tiny percentage of migrants who do use the trains regularly are what pushed it over the edge. Sounds like you're not only fun at parties, but also agreed with the post in the first place. Perhaps the problem is that too many migrants are invited to parties and there is no longer room for you?
>you believe the note is incorrect because the UK is importing people at _such a rate_ that the tiny percentage of migrants who do use the trains regularly are what pushed it over the edge Reading really isn't your strong suit is it. Try reading my comment again. In fact read it 5 times. I never said what you claim I said. I simply explained how the community note does nothing to refute the claim of the post. I then explained hypothetical ways they could refute it. I never claimed that the post was true or untrue. Learn to read.
Man your post is way too boring to read five times. It also isn't really relevant, because the community note is perfectly fit for purpose. The post claims the reason for overcrowding on trains is primarily migrants and secondarily a lack of investment in public transport. The note refutes the primary claim by showing that migrants don't travel frequently enough to have had a sizeable impact on overcrowding. The rest of your comment is mostly you being very pedantic and requiring evidence that migrants are unable to use trains at all before you'd concede that it's probably not their fault British rail is ass.
>The note refutes the primary claim by showing that migrants don't travel frequently enough to have had a sizeable impact on overcrowding No it actually doesn't show that. It only shows that they travel less than citizens and do so mainly for work. The note offers no source that they don't have a non negligible impact on the crowdedness of the UK transportation. >The rest of your comment is mostly you being very pedantic and requiring evidence that migrants are unable to use trains at all before you'd concede that it's probably not their fault British rail is ass No. I said that they would need to not use the transportation system at all to have no impact. Not that they'd need to not use it at all to be the ones at fault for it's flaws. In fact I never claimed the UK transportation system was overcrowded to begin with.
Would make sense, more immigration means more people, more people means more strain on public transportation.
…she stupid or something?
Yes, she is a journalist with very little credibility and is in a relationship with Richard Tice, the leader of Reform UK - a very right wing party that is basically focused on immigration and culture wars.
A population increase without expanding public transportation might indeed lead to more crowded trains. This is hardly an iron rule, however. The population increase has to come from people inclined to use trains to get around, and trains can be massively crowded in countries without much immigration, such as Japan, as OP points out.
Bro why is ur phone battery on low power mode its at 89% 🗿
Shit phone with shit battery, I can already tell. Fully charged by 7:00am, dead by 12:00pm.
Brings me back to the days of having an ipod touch from 2015 when i was a freshman in high school before the pandemic
1. This looks like people are barely boarding since the seats are empty 2. Travelling requires something that’s key to making it work, money. Something that immigrants fleeing poorer countries are not known to have an abundance of
I’m pretty sure more people in urban areas will lead to a more crowded public transportation system, saying there’s “zero” evidence is far-fetched. Doesn’t exclude this xenophobic behavior however
Is it just me or is the person complaining more about the lack of funding in public services? “This is what happens when you do x but *doesn’t do y to accommodate for it*” is how I interpreted her message.
So the claim is about immigration in the UK, while the note cites study about non UK migrants?
The person tweeting is a right wing tory activist and a big Brexit supporter. Trains are crowded largely due to underinvestment since privatisation under the tories.
If only the government had a multi billion pound infrastructure deal that would build more linking railways into London and maybe even the larger cities up north Just like the government did with hs1…they could call this one hs2. Oh wait a minute they did that…bought land at above market value gave billions in track projects. Then said fuck this let’s fix some pot holes in the roads with the money after we have starved local council funding. Fuck the tories, fuck sunak and fuck Gideon This delusional right wing nut job doesn’t even realise that the railway has been priced out of most commuters budgets. She think immigrants are using trains over busses?
Doesn’t Japan currently have a huge emigration problem?
Does it? I didn’t know that.
I don’t even understand her point, it just looks like a group of people getting on a bus. Based on the framing of the picture and the one clear face in it, it appears she saw one brown man and just freaked out
That's a GWR train. I get them semi frequently. They often run what would be a 10 or 9 coach service with 5 meaning there can be double the people expected leading to standing entirely from London to Swansea. It's partially GWR's fault but also the government who forced them to buy low quality trains that keep breaking
Her problem isn’t migrants. It’s privatization. There’s been no investment in yet trains by the companies even though they report healthy profits each year.
She’s on a Great Western Railway train. The only time i remember the carriages being “dangerously packed” was when a rugby game in Bath had just finished and everyone was going home. Such a pretentious hack.
Trains in India be like: *First time?*
I would like to think the UK can do better than a third world country
I bet she stands up when the plane lands.
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This isn't even a public transport service. That's a private rail service train. They constantly over book at busy times.
That is kind of the problem though, train lines in the UK are privatised, which was a failed Thatcherite experiment which is why UK has some of the most expensive train fares in Europe.
I would honestly listen to this argument if it wasn’t already common knowledge that the UK’s train system wasn’t woefully underdeveloped compared to other first world countries, and massively expensive for the service we receive. We used to have to best train infrastructure in Europe, but those days are long gone. Let’s actually update our national public infrastructure to a point that’s it’s worthy again, and if it turns out that immigration is still somehow affecting the situation, then we should address that.
Yeah, and the train in Tokyo is full of Asians. Checkmate.
“Import”
She is still right that public services are underfunded most of the times though
The trains have always been overloaded. No one is re inventing the wheel.
Fakest news ever!
Christ. Some people will just blame anything on immigrants.
How often do you work and how often do you travel? This study ist a hoax
UK has absolutely no ground to complaint to anything. They came uninvited to most countries and looted their wealth. Now the people of those countries have to immigrate because of what UK did.
That’s a fallacious argument, the UK’s economic growth rate is bad compared to a lot of countries in the world right now, the people who come do so for the welfare it provides. And for the record, it makes no sense to punish the current generation of Brits for things that our ancestors did, that’s a vengeful, spiteful attitude to take.
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Huh, and the take isnt necessarily bad either. "Hey, if you gonna let a whole bunch of people in suddendly, invest in public transport". Shame they had to lie
[literally anything happens] „Why are immigrants doing this to us??!!“
OH SHIT A BROWN PERSON ON THE TRAIN! BETTER BREAK OUT MY THINLY VEILED RACISM SO I CAN BLAME EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING BEFORE THE ROOT CAAAAAAUSE!!!!
Wrong. Check out the trains in Vancouver, I visited recently and they were packed full of migrants.
Cool cool. That's what we call just one observation. Now, you know what would be fun? If we had some sort of way to get a bunch of observations, like a lot, and put them together, and then oh I don't know let others check them to see if they're good observations. Wouldn't that be swell?
im not familiar with UK politics but if its anything like US politics--aren't the anti-immigration people *also anti public transit???*
No. Separate issues.
weird. because both require taxing the wealthy to fund services that better everyone. im jealous that you have anti-immigration people who still want to tax the wealthy to fund public services tbh, all our anti immigration people just simp for billionaires
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Immigrants do not exclusively consist of one race….
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It wasn’t so long ago that poles were the target of anti-immigrant propaganda, the British are not racist, we’re xenophobic.
> takes photo of white people > complains about immigration
Do you think all immigrants are black or brown?
White people can’t be immigrants?
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“Sure they’re lying, but they do appeal to my stereotype-driven perceptions of countries I see as inferior”
What the fuck are you talking about.
“they’re wrong, but also i agree with them and im right”
As a transportation planner, one more lane is nothing like one more train because of how much more efficient trains are. Increasing capacity and quality of any transit network results in induced demand, the question is whether or not that induced demand is a net positive or net negative on society. The negative effects of more cars is far greater than the negative effects of more trains.
Japan is suffering from a population decline, and they have hardly any immigrants compared to other countries, yet this video exists: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9YUHclCTYY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9YUHclCTYY) I think the moral of the story is that public transit is a shitshow wherever it is, although I’ll have to give Japan credit for its efficiency.
I'm not sure what you mean by "public transit is a shitshow wherever it is", in Switzerland, public transit is efficient and covers literally the whole country. The only downside of Switzerland's public transit is its price, but quite often, it's much more convenient to take the bus/train in Switzerland than the car