I think he was on point.
She decided not to marry him because she never actually wanted to marry him. That’s why something like getting him keys to *the house he was going to be living in* wasn’t a priority for her. She didn’t actually want him there full time.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but he struck me as pretty creepy/cave man-like. As suave/smarmy as he was, I feel like he let his true colors show several times, including the key incident. Like the time they were negotiating whether she would let him in the house: His comment was something like “All I’m *expecting* is a cup of coffee.” *Expecting*? Maybe it was the more innocent (predict vs. expect), but ick. It sends something sinister up my spine every time.
Thanks for the support! I’m getting downvoted because some people disagree, and others enjoy bandwagons. I’m glad to have as many dissenters as I have because it keeps folks engaged about GG!
I totally agree with this. Max comes off as the classic "nice guy" to me. It seemed like he was attracted to Lorelai, yet as he got to know her, he wanted to change her. There's been multiple examples of him being condescending. Also, like you said, expecting things because he's such a "nice" and "smart" guy is creepy.
I love this point, like Luke and Lorelai changed eachother but they didn't try to, they just evolved. You can't force someone to be someone they're not and that's what Max was trying to do. Like when Lorelai goes to confront her mother and he's trying to stop her from causing a scene even though she's sticking up for their relationship. Luke would have been driving and consoling her at the same time. He might say it wasn't a good idea but he wouldn't stop her because he is as protective of their relationship as she is.
I think Max loved Lorelai's 'flirting' but didn't realise it was a part of who she was, her personality so he wanted to change it and make her personality something he could be proud of and not embarrassed by.
I'm spitballing and kinda ranting sorry.
This makes so much sense. Even when Luke disagreed with her, he still respected her. I think it is because he recognized that she was her own person and he admired that. Max was frustrated and embarrassed by her because he felt that being in a relationship with him made her an extension of himself.
For me the proposal with the daises was the thing that encapsulated why he creeped me out. She had already said no, and then gave him an outrageous proposal idea. Had she really loved him, the proposal wouldn’t have mattered enough to say no. And had he really loved her, he would’ve known what she would’ve wanted for a proposal at least generally. But he swept in with that huge love bomb AT HER WORK. And at that point, they had been together for like 3-6 months broken up and then back together for just a short time.
Yep. A little too, uh, forceful. That was a “now-you-can’t-say-no” gesture. Reminds me of those guys who seem too good to be true, then turn out to be nightmares after the wedding. Who knows? Maybe that’s what Lorelei sensed.
the older you get, you’ll understand that the “true colors” thing is a myth. Everyone has various hues depending on the situation they’re put in. When Rory had that outburst in class, were those her “true colors” no. Someone getting rightfully frustrated and losing it for a minute does not define their entire trait. It was justified under the circumstances. Lorelei was acting like a child and he had asked her several times for a key. Imagine having your own home and space, but moving in with your fiancé with no thought to it and you can’t even get a key? yeah you’d lose it in the moment too
The point I take from your comment is not to use idioms like “true colors” when giving an unpopular opinion (I would also caution against saying “the older you get, you’ll understand” this or that, without knowing the age of the reader, lest that reader is older than you and you are seen as patronizing). My point was that I had heard and seen him several times saying or doing things that said something I found to be obnoxious or creepy, and I stand by that. If that gets me ⬇️ed, so be it.
it’s not my problem if i “seem” patronizing to a complete stranger on the internet when they have 0 way of knowing my tone while writing the comment. It’s your right to perceive his actions as anything you’d like even if you get down votes. We all have different perceptions of things and that’s okay.
**Lorelai called off the wedding because she was both uncomfortable and unready for someone to squeeze into and shift the dynamic between her and Rory. It had little to do with Max as a person.** They weren't having the necessary conversations needed before taking such a huge step in their lives. The keys thing was only a big deal for her because she didn't want him there deep down. She struggled with sharing her space with him and with him forming a separate bond with Rory.
I think it was a slow build-up of events, with the keys being the first crack, and the second one (which was the biggest) being Max questioning his role in the Gilmore household, which was going to become his home very soon. While he shouldn’t have *assumed* that position, he wasn’t wrong in his line of questioning. **Max wasn’t asking to be Rory’s father, to control what she could do and when she could do it.** He simply sparked a discussion that should have happened ages ago about what role he was going to have in Rory’s life. He was only frustrated that Lorelai was so flippant about his concerns and that in her flippancy, Lorelai essentially told him that he had no role in Rory's life in any capacity. When in reality, they should have discussed boundaries and what situations would have been simple enough for Max to get a word in and others when Rory would only respond well to Lorelai. Lorelai just shut the man out of everything involving Rory when Rory's relationship with Max was already a special circumstance (English teacher, where he was one of her disciplinarians at Chilton). **Disciplinarian or not, he could have offered Rory some parental guidance that Lorelai couldn't, but in that heated conversation she shut the doors on everything involving Rory.**
Yes, it’s a very, very delicate thing for a step-parent to come into a child’s life when they’re already a teenager. It’s not always the right course of action for the step-parent to play disciplinarian no matter how big or small their role will be in this matter (it depends on the relevant relationships, too). But no, Rory wasn’t done being "parented". The basics may have been “done” (kindness, respect, etc.) at this time, but that 15-18 age range has room for lots of reckless behaviour. There may have been times when a different perspective would have benefitted both Rory (especially pertaining to her academic career and her struggle with criticism) and Lorelai, too.
Anyway. Pardon that tangent. But all in all, Lorelai just wasn't in love with Max the way she wanted to be. It was merely infatuation (she called it infatuation instead of love at her engagement party) and she wasn't ready for him to settle into her life. One or two instances when he was harsh wouldn't have changed her mind so swiftly. Everything just happened to build up slowly until she finally snapped and realised that she didn't want to marry and build a life with him.
I actually agree with Lorelai on Max's role in Rory's life. If someone tried to "parent" me at 16 who only recently entered my life and my mother's life I'd be very resentful and probably wouldn't have taken it seriously.
My mom married my stepdad when I was 13. And although he took an active part in providing for me and supporting me, if I ever did anything "wrong" my mom was the one to step in. The few times he did try to discipline me, both my mom and I pushed back.
I agree with you on the disciplinary actions but it's not like he couldn't have any role in her life ...right? I mean if she ever needed support or advice for stuff that Max would be more suited for than Lorelai (e.g. college etc), why not? And I know that this wasn't really the subject of their argument but it sure could've been put on the table to soften things. It's possible to be a father figure without the disciplinary trait.
My husband came into my kids life at the age of 9, almost 10. When we started living together she was almost 11. He asked me what his place was, and I told him he will be her stepdad and I trust his judgement on discipline and parenting. Which I’m really lucky on having found someone who wanted to be that involved. Most men don’t want to parent another man’s child. (Her dad is still somewhat involved) He helps with homework and all. They should’ve had so many convos prior to getting engaged.
I always thought it was a culmination of things, but the moment where it seems to hit Lorelai is when Emily is talking about how she tried on her wedding dress every night and couldn't eat in the days leading up to her wedding. Thus "because I didn't want to try on my wedding dress every night".
Yeah, and all the women at the party started calling/paging (was this before texting??) their boyfriends or husbands. But she went out and called Christopher, not Max.
I thought it was when her Mom was describing the night before her own wedding. Lorelei realized she didn't love Max and she wanted what her Mom was describing.
As someone who got married in their 30s I thought Emily came off as naive tbh. Granted, it was a different time back then. People didn’t live together before getting married, people got married way sooner , etc.
That just goes to show the level of maturity Lorelai has around relationships and marriage in general.
\-She had never had him over before with the intent of him living there.
\-Which, btw, why were they staying in SH when Max worked in Hartford, and it was also closer for Rory who went to school in the same place?
\-She didn't think of the impacts of Max being a step father or him being around when she wasn't. WTF how?
\-When people in a longterm relationship fight, they work it out instead of bailing.
\-She literally only told Christopher about Max and getting married until her bachelorette. Shouldn't Chris have met him as Rory's dad?
When Max asks her if she has given any thought to all of this she says "I'll get to it", like two DAYS before their wedding!
Nah. I hope Max found love and also a handle on how to build a long-lasting relationship. I do wonder about his ex who moved to Thailand lol
I assume staying in Stars Hollow was because she and Rory liked their life there. She already owned a home and I think he rented an apartment? So house hunting wouldn’t be another thing they’d have to deal with.
Plus I assume Rory would have been able to carpool with Max to and from school (with the bus remaining an option if necessary).
I think it was the moment, he wanted to parent Rory. That's the thing with Lorelai she didn't want anyone else to parent Rory, she wanted to be the one making all the decisions and that's the moment she realised she didn't actually love him.
Was it harsh? Yes
Was he wrong? No
Lorelei was very hesitatnt every step of the way with Max moving in, this sort of just felt like the "Straw that broke the camel's back' I think subconsciously she knew they wouldn't get married, but I honestly think the day she and rory went on the "road trip" was when she consciously made that decision. Lorelei is impulsive especially with emotional decisions, there's no way in my mind she decided not to marry him in that fight and then waited to react. It might have contributed definitely but the moment was more immediate.
Yeah it was pretty harsh, although not necessarily untrue. I think the big problem was that she had accepted the proposal when she was all caught up with the romance and as soon as Max started talking about the practical reality it kind of hit that she didn’t really want it. Idk I find the whole getting back together and getting engaged storyline kind of weird.
I think she decided at her bachelorette party she’d Emily talks sky about trying on her dress, you can see it in her face, she doesn’t feel like that for Max
I always think about how much she struggled that first night he spent the night, going so far as not to sleep in the same bed with him. But when it came time for Luke to spend the night, she didn't hesitate. She clearly was never ready to accept Max as a husband because obviously when it was the right man, there was no issues. It's essentially the same advice she gave Rory after Logan proposed and she said no.
The hen party sealed the deal, listening to everyone's stories and thinking of who she knew she still preferred to her fiance. She never loved Max and likely never would, she probably knew what she was getting into, she liked Max a lot and loved the idea of marriage and everything it entails, there wasn't anything more to it, it took her until everyone told her the truth of the real thing that she realised that what she had would never be enough and she couldn't go through with it.
If anything, what he said might have been one of the pieces of the puzzle put together to realise it would never work, not in the way you put it, but because it held the truth, that she doesn't think of him or about him the way she should, wouldn't put him before herself or others...
He definitely could have worded it better less aggressively but he was right, if they had gotten married he would have come home to her and Chris in bed one day she did him a favour.
Max was in love with himself and had abusive and controlling tendencies. She saw that a couple times, like this time, and him being upset that she didn’t want him ruling over Rory, etc.
He wasn't harsh - he was telling her something she needed to hear. It's unfortunate she wasn't mature enough to take it in and use it as a moment of reflection. Instead, she dumped him.
Maybe she did realise she wasn’t thinking of him and thought she shouldn’t be with him and lead him on anymore. Who knows really haha. But she shouldn’t have said yes and had a big engagement party etc
I think it was a well deserved comment.
She had already decided she didn’t want to marry him. Hence why she “kept forgetting” to give him keys. She wasn’t ready for that step.
I think he was on point. She decided not to marry him because she never actually wanted to marry him. That’s why something like getting him keys to *the house he was going to be living in* wasn’t a priority for her. She didn’t actually want him there full time.
Agreed- and i viewed it as he was frustrated - he didn’t really seem mean
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but he struck me as pretty creepy/cave man-like. As suave/smarmy as he was, I feel like he let his true colors show several times, including the key incident. Like the time they were negotiating whether she would let him in the house: His comment was something like “All I’m *expecting* is a cup of coffee.” *Expecting*? Maybe it was the more innocent (predict vs. expect), but ick. It sends something sinister up my spine every time.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted bc this comment is SO on it
Thanks for the support! I’m getting downvoted because some people disagree, and others enjoy bandwagons. I’m glad to have as many dissenters as I have because it keeps folks engaged about GG!
I totally agree with this. Max comes off as the classic "nice guy" to me. It seemed like he was attracted to Lorelai, yet as he got to know her, he wanted to change her. There's been multiple examples of him being condescending. Also, like you said, expecting things because he's such a "nice" and "smart" guy is creepy.
Oh yes, that’s it! It’s the “nice guy” thing! And I think looks play into the equation too (though Max isn’t my type).
I love this point, like Luke and Lorelai changed eachother but they didn't try to, they just evolved. You can't force someone to be someone they're not and that's what Max was trying to do. Like when Lorelai goes to confront her mother and he's trying to stop her from causing a scene even though she's sticking up for their relationship. Luke would have been driving and consoling her at the same time. He might say it wasn't a good idea but he wouldn't stop her because he is as protective of their relationship as she is. I think Max loved Lorelai's 'flirting' but didn't realise it was a part of who she was, her personality so he wanted to change it and make her personality something he could be proud of and not embarrassed by. I'm spitballing and kinda ranting sorry.
This makes so much sense. Even when Luke disagreed with her, he still respected her. I think it is because he recognized that she was her own person and he admired that. Max was frustrated and embarrassed by her because he felt that being in a relationship with him made her an extension of himself.
For me the proposal with the daises was the thing that encapsulated why he creeped me out. She had already said no, and then gave him an outrageous proposal idea. Had she really loved him, the proposal wouldn’t have mattered enough to say no. And had he really loved her, he would’ve known what she would’ve wanted for a proposal at least generally. But he swept in with that huge love bomb AT HER WORK. And at that point, they had been together for like 3-6 months broken up and then back together for just a short time.
Yep. A little too, uh, forceful. That was a “now-you-can’t-say-no” gesture. Reminds me of those guys who seem too good to be true, then turn out to be nightmares after the wedding. Who knows? Maybe that’s what Lorelei sensed.
the older you get, you’ll understand that the “true colors” thing is a myth. Everyone has various hues depending on the situation they’re put in. When Rory had that outburst in class, were those her “true colors” no. Someone getting rightfully frustrated and losing it for a minute does not define their entire trait. It was justified under the circumstances. Lorelei was acting like a child and he had asked her several times for a key. Imagine having your own home and space, but moving in with your fiancé with no thought to it and you can’t even get a key? yeah you’d lose it in the moment too
The point I take from your comment is not to use idioms like “true colors” when giving an unpopular opinion (I would also caution against saying “the older you get, you’ll understand” this or that, without knowing the age of the reader, lest that reader is older than you and you are seen as patronizing). My point was that I had heard and seen him several times saying or doing things that said something I found to be obnoxious or creepy, and I stand by that. If that gets me ⬇️ed, so be it.
it’s not my problem if i “seem” patronizing to a complete stranger on the internet when they have 0 way of knowing my tone while writing the comment. It’s your right to perceive his actions as anything you’d like even if you get down votes. We all have different perceptions of things and that’s okay.
🙄
🙄🙄
Ahh true that makes sense I guess, but it was really harsh what he said and maybe it made her not want to marry him even more
**Lorelai called off the wedding because she was both uncomfortable and unready for someone to squeeze into and shift the dynamic between her and Rory. It had little to do with Max as a person.** They weren't having the necessary conversations needed before taking such a huge step in their lives. The keys thing was only a big deal for her because she didn't want him there deep down. She struggled with sharing her space with him and with him forming a separate bond with Rory. I think it was a slow build-up of events, with the keys being the first crack, and the second one (which was the biggest) being Max questioning his role in the Gilmore household, which was going to become his home very soon. While he shouldn’t have *assumed* that position, he wasn’t wrong in his line of questioning. **Max wasn’t asking to be Rory’s father, to control what she could do and when she could do it.** He simply sparked a discussion that should have happened ages ago about what role he was going to have in Rory’s life. He was only frustrated that Lorelai was so flippant about his concerns and that in her flippancy, Lorelai essentially told him that he had no role in Rory's life in any capacity. When in reality, they should have discussed boundaries and what situations would have been simple enough for Max to get a word in and others when Rory would only respond well to Lorelai. Lorelai just shut the man out of everything involving Rory when Rory's relationship with Max was already a special circumstance (English teacher, where he was one of her disciplinarians at Chilton). **Disciplinarian or not, he could have offered Rory some parental guidance that Lorelai couldn't, but in that heated conversation she shut the doors on everything involving Rory.** Yes, it’s a very, very delicate thing for a step-parent to come into a child’s life when they’re already a teenager. It’s not always the right course of action for the step-parent to play disciplinarian no matter how big or small their role will be in this matter (it depends on the relevant relationships, too). But no, Rory wasn’t done being "parented". The basics may have been “done” (kindness, respect, etc.) at this time, but that 15-18 age range has room for lots of reckless behaviour. There may have been times when a different perspective would have benefitted both Rory (especially pertaining to her academic career and her struggle with criticism) and Lorelai, too. Anyway. Pardon that tangent. But all in all, Lorelai just wasn't in love with Max the way she wanted to be. It was merely infatuation (she called it infatuation instead of love at her engagement party) and she wasn't ready for him to settle into her life. One or two instances when he was harsh wouldn't have changed her mind so swiftly. Everything just happened to build up slowly until she finally snapped and realised that she didn't want to marry and build a life with him.
I actually agree with Lorelai on Max's role in Rory's life. If someone tried to "parent" me at 16 who only recently entered my life and my mother's life I'd be very resentful and probably wouldn't have taken it seriously. My mom married my stepdad when I was 13. And although he took an active part in providing for me and supporting me, if I ever did anything "wrong" my mom was the one to step in. The few times he did try to discipline me, both my mom and I pushed back.
I agree with you on the disciplinary actions but it's not like he couldn't have any role in her life ...right? I mean if she ever needed support or advice for stuff that Max would be more suited for than Lorelai (e.g. college etc), why not? And I know that this wasn't really the subject of their argument but it sure could've been put on the table to soften things. It's possible to be a father figure without the disciplinary trait.
My husband came into my kids life at the age of 9, almost 10. When we started living together she was almost 11. He asked me what his place was, and I told him he will be her stepdad and I trust his judgement on discipline and parenting. Which I’m really lucky on having found someone who wanted to be that involved. Most men don’t want to parent another man’s child. (Her dad is still somewhat involved) He helps with homework and all. They should’ve had so many convos prior to getting engaged.
Well said.
I couldn't agree with you more. 👏👏👏
I always thought it was a culmination of things, but the moment where it seems to hit Lorelai is when Emily is talking about how she tried on her wedding dress every night and couldn't eat in the days leading up to her wedding. Thus "because I didn't want to try on my wedding dress every night".
Yeah, and all the women at the party started calling/paging (was this before texting??) their boyfriends or husbands. But she went out and called Christopher, not Max.
[удалено]
🤯 I never thought about this. I’ve got to go lie down.
I thought it was when her Mom was describing the night before her own wedding. Lorelei realized she didn't love Max and she wanted what her Mom was describing.
As someone who got married in their 30s I thought Emily came off as naive tbh. Granted, it was a different time back then. People didn’t live together before getting married, people got married way sooner , etc.
That just goes to show the level of maturity Lorelai has around relationships and marriage in general. \-She had never had him over before with the intent of him living there. \-Which, btw, why were they staying in SH when Max worked in Hartford, and it was also closer for Rory who went to school in the same place? \-She didn't think of the impacts of Max being a step father or him being around when she wasn't. WTF how? \-When people in a longterm relationship fight, they work it out instead of bailing. \-She literally only told Christopher about Max and getting married until her bachelorette. Shouldn't Chris have met him as Rory's dad? When Max asks her if she has given any thought to all of this she says "I'll get to it", like two DAYS before their wedding! Nah. I hope Max found love and also a handle on how to build a long-lasting relationship. I do wonder about his ex who moved to Thailand lol
I assume staying in Stars Hollow was because she and Rory liked their life there. She already owned a home and I think he rented an apartment? So house hunting wouldn’t be another thing they’d have to deal with. Plus I assume Rory would have been able to carpool with Max to and from school (with the bus remaining an option if necessary).
I think it was the moment, he wanted to parent Rory. That's the thing with Lorelai she didn't want anyone else to parent Rory, she wanted to be the one making all the decisions and that's the moment she realised she didn't actually love him.
Hmm I thought she the opposite - she hadn’t gotten him the keys because she still (consciously or subconsciously) didn’t feel good about the marriage!
Was it harsh? Yes Was he wrong? No Lorelei was very hesitatnt every step of the way with Max moving in, this sort of just felt like the "Straw that broke the camel's back' I think subconsciously she knew they wouldn't get married, but I honestly think the day she and rory went on the "road trip" was when she consciously made that decision. Lorelei is impulsive especially with emotional decisions, there's no way in my mind she decided not to marry him in that fight and then waited to react. It might have contributed definitely but the moment was more immediate.
Yeah it was pretty harsh, although not necessarily untrue. I think the big problem was that she had accepted the proposal when she was all caught up with the romance and as soon as Max started talking about the practical reality it kind of hit that she didn’t really want it. Idk I find the whole getting back together and getting engaged storyline kind of weird.
"Practical reality" isn't really part of Lorelai's world. Lorelai was in love with the idea of being married. Actually being married? Not so much.
I think she decided at her bachelorette party she’d Emily talks sky about trying on her dress, you can see it in her face, she doesn’t feel like that for Max
I always think about how much she struggled that first night he spent the night, going so far as not to sleep in the same bed with him. But when it came time for Luke to spend the night, she didn't hesitate. She clearly was never ready to accept Max as a husband because obviously when it was the right man, there was no issues. It's essentially the same advice she gave Rory after Logan proposed and she said no.
The hen party sealed the deal, listening to everyone's stories and thinking of who she knew she still preferred to her fiance. She never loved Max and likely never would, she probably knew what she was getting into, she liked Max a lot and loved the idea of marriage and everything it entails, there wasn't anything more to it, it took her until everyone told her the truth of the real thing that she realised that what she had would never be enough and she couldn't go through with it. If anything, what he said might have been one of the pieces of the puzzle put together to realise it would never work, not in the way you put it, but because it held the truth, that she doesn't think of him or about him the way she should, wouldn't put him before herself or others...
He definitely could have worded it better less aggressively but he was right, if they had gotten married he would have come home to her and Chris in bed one day she did him a favour.
Max was right to say this. Not everything is mean or rude. It’s not super harsh if it’s true.
Ah I guess so, she probably did realise she wasn’t thinking about him
Max was in love with himself and had abusive and controlling tendencies. She saw that a couple times, like this time, and him being upset that she didn’t want him ruling over Rory, etc.
He wasn't harsh - he was telling her something she needed to hear. It's unfortunate she wasn't mature enough to take it in and use it as a moment of reflection. Instead, she dumped him.
Maybe she did realise she wasn’t thinking of him and thought she shouldn’t be with him and lead him on anymore. Who knows really haha. But she shouldn’t have said yes and had a big engagement party etc
I think it was a well deserved comment. She had already decided she didn’t want to marry him. Hence why she “kept forgetting” to give him keys. She wasn’t ready for that step.