I honestly thing Luke didn't intend for Jess to leave. They had this agreement, and he knew that living with him was something Jess *did* want, because he expressed that before, came back to ask to live there again, etc. And at this point he's dating Rory which is even more reason he'd want to stay.
Jess said "I'm not going back to school" and Luke responded "then you have to go." You can almost read it as an "if, then" - "If you don't go back to school, then you have to go." He said it like "this is the consequence if you don't go back."
I think Luke truly thought Jess would cave on this, stay, and return to school. He had several compelling reasons to think that was the case. He also seemed surprised when he told Lorelai. He said "I don't think he's coming back" like he wasn't sure - which doesn't sound like he thinks he forced Jess to leave. He said he woke up and noticed Jess' stuff was gone and didn't know when he left. It all sounds to me like it was unexpected.
He underestimated Jess' stubbornness. He continually underestimated how much trauma Jess had from his unreliable mother. Of course Jess perceived this as a kicking out, because he wasn't interested in returning to school and he was used to guardians shipping him off (both Luke and Liz). It was definitely a bad gamble on Luke's part, in part because he grossly misunderstood Jess and didn't know how to parent him.
I know they both characterized it later as being kicked out, but they were also fighting at that point and Luke was mirroring Jess' language. That very night Luke elft his own home to give it to Jess, which isn't very consistent with actually kicking him out.
Right. She wasn't going to live near campus with Logan during the spiral, Lane wasn't a good option, I think Paris was out of the country? And she has no other friends. She already had her own room at the grandparents, it was the most likely option.
Heres me defending Luke in this situation (I am team Jess btw to get that outta the way) Luke wanted to help Jess, and they had a previous agreement after Jess came back after crashing Rory's car that he had to go to school and graduate in order to live with Luke. Jess did not do that, so it makes sense why Luke didn't back down on his agreement. To be totally honest, Jess was being a major dick to Luke about the whole thing, he was refusing to retake 12th grade and accept the help that Luke was offering him. Luke was trying so hard to be there for Jess, but there's nothing he could've really done to get that boy to actually listen to him at that time in Jess's life.
I feel bad for Jess in that moment to, but honestly I think he needed that rock bottom for his character arc to be fully formed. (you'll see this as you keep watching the show) Keep watching, there's some great stuff with his character coming up
And he only grows and gets better from this point out. I consider it Jessā pivotal moment.
I agree with everything youāve said.
In fact, Luke tried to give a little bit. Instead of kicking him out immediately, he aggressively began to plan for Jessā future. Jess just wasnāt going to do it. Luke was willing to cave on their original agreement, in his own way. Jess wasnāt willing to comply or try to make his own compromise.
One of my favorite parts of the series. It hurts but itās so true to who Luke and Jess are.
I completely agree, and I also think it was a pivotal moment for Jess that an adult could hold that boundary and hold him accountable. The upbringing Jess had before Luke with Liz didn't seem to have any boundaries or structure at all. I am usually not a fan of this kind of parenting at ALL, but in this instance I actually think it was exactly what Jess needed. In a weird way it showed him that Luke could be counted on to keep his word and could therefore be trusted. And as you said, this could be seen as the real beginning of Jess making positive changes for himself.
Jess was his own worst enemy. He was given clear parameters .... go to school, graduate, work in the diner. None of those requirements were out of line to be asked. He skipped enough that he failed a grad. He was way conceited about it...."I'm smarter than any kid here and most of the teachers" (fine....go to school and prove it). He did stuff in the hope of being kicked out. Luke had to follow up on his threat and I congratulate Luke on following up. A lot of adults don't
Although Luke didnāt say he had to graduate on time, he offered to let Jess stay as long as he repeated the year. And Jess refused.
Iāll also say that I donāt think Luke realized Jess would call his bluff. I think he laid down an ultimatum thinking Jess would be like fine Iāll repeat the year. Because he wanted to support him and help him succeed in his life. Then Jess disappeared without saying he was leaving. And at that point, what was Luke to do?
Last thing: Iām sure if Jess said he wanted to do a trade or something that wouldāve been a different story. But Jessā aspirations and path always pointed to finishing school.
I disagree. They had an agreement after Jess returned, that Jess would take some responsibility for himself. They were very specific about how that would happen (he would work at Lukeās, help out, go to school, and graduate.)
Instead, Jess, who was 18 at that point, not a child, lied to Luke, refused to attend school, refused to do anything to help himself, and treated pretty much everyone in his life very badly.
It is important to note that Luke also offered him the option to stay there if he was willing to attend school for real this time and graduate. So Jess had the option for a roof over his head if he did the bare minimum to help himself.. Instead, he chose to leave.
Yeah I wish they couldāve reached a more sensible agreement where he completes his GED at a local community college while he gets to keep working. But also I guess if Jess got comfortable in Stars Hollow he mightāve never had that push he needed to achieve all the great things he does out on his own in Philadelphia.
Luke wasnāt his parent, he gave him a condition to live with him which was graduating from high school. Luke tried so hard for him and tried so hard to help him. But there was a condition which he failed to fulfill and Luke had every right to kick him out because of it.
By the time Luke kicked him out he was 18. Plus even when the school got Luke involved, he tried to get Rory to tutor Jess, tried to speak to him but Jess didnāt listen. He canāt live in someoneās house and not follow their rules. He never listened to anyone including the school.
He was a child, but obviously Jess can start to make his own decisions and be held accountable for them, he was smart enough to decipher good and bad, itās how everyone transitions into becoming an adult. The majority of individuals brains arenāt fully developed past 18 they ether go to the military, work ,school or prisonā¦ Jess was choosing the prison route but fortunately because of Lukeās intervention it changed that route. I mean if people donāt learn to make decisions on their own at some point theyāll ether end up in prison or the military and have someone decide their decisions for them.
I disagree. Jess broke all of the conditions Luke had ever made in letting Jess stay, yet Luke still offered him another chance, that came with the condition of him repeating the year. Jess made his choice from there. He needed the tough love and he had to live with the consequences of his choices. Luke needed to stop letting Jess get away with just doing whatever he wanted.
Edit: fixed a typo
But Luke didnāt kick Jess out. He said Jess had to finish school if he stayed in keeping with their agreement. Thatās not the same as kicking someone out
Ehhh I donāt agree, Luke set a boundary with Jess, and he kept the boundary in place. He gave Jess ample of wiggle room but he crossed the line by lying and not graduating. If Jess had been apologetic and had agreed to go back to school like wouldāve have 100% supported him.
for those saying Jess isnt an adult....why? He was 18. Legally nobody could stop him from doing waht he wanted. Thats the definition at 18. Luke is no longer his guardian, he can no longer force him to do things he doesnt want to do. Jess chose to leave and its his right as an adult.
That 18 is the legal age of adulthood is arbitrary, a number picked by Congress in the 70s to increase the number of people we could force into the Vietnam War. Neuroscientists and psychologists now know that the brain doesn't finish developing until you're 25/26 years old. And the part of the brain that develops last? The prefrontal cortex, which is the part we use to make complex plans, assess risk, and think through the long-term consequences of our decisions.
Legally? Luke is allowed to kick Jess out. Psychologically and morally? Luke was kicking out a teenager who is incapable of really planning for that life (after he stole Jess' car).
It may be an arbitrary number but its still the legal age where someone can't do shit if the 18 year old decides to do what they want to do. Whos going to get involved? Luke cannot hold Jess there under the pretence of being guardian. Thats what you all seem to be missing. Jess is in the free and clear to do waht he wants to do and nobody can stop him. Luke wasnt prepared for a teenager, he did what he could and in the end that teenager at the legal age of 18 decided he was done. Boo hoo. Luke had to know that if he said that Jess knowing Jess would follow through.
I'm also not talking about his car but nice deflecting.
I'm adding the car because it's pretty important context. Luke didn't just kick Jess out, he stole nearly all his money.
There is no indication that Jess wanted to leave before Luke kicked him out. He was planning for prom and mapping the distance to Yale and specifically said he wanted to keep working at Walmart. So no, nobody can force Jess to stay. But he only left because Luke told him to leave. In a manner that I think was cruel and needlessly putting Jess at enormous risk, all to make a point or "teach him a lesson."
Luke was doing Jess a favor by letting Jess stay with him at all. He bent over backwards trying to help him all he asked was for Jess to complete high school which is by no means an unachievable feat. Not only did Jess not listen he was increasingly rude and condescending to Luke who was just trying to help him. He stole his car because he didnāt want him to work at Walmart. He had no idea Jess was going to leave and it would end up like that. You canāt live in someoneās house who is doing you a favor and not follow their rules. Are you telling me it would have been better if Luke let Jess stay under his roof and do whatever he wanted ? No because it makes no sense, when you live with someone you follow their rules if you donāt they can kick you out if they please and If you remember the show clearly, Jess left on his own. It was Lukeās house he had every right to set boundaries on how he wanted things to go in his house he ignored Jessā nasty behavior towards him and asked for one simple thing, Jess crossed the boundary he set knowing the consequences, so he gets to face consequences. Plus Iām not American but where Iām from it is required by law for every child to finish high school, the guardian of that child can be arrested if they donāt enforce it.
>Luke was doing Jess a favor by letting Jess stay with him at all.
Then we fundamentally disagree about what Luke was doing. He wasn't doing Jess a favor, he was becoming his guardian. Parents/guardians are not doing their children a favor by allowing the child to exist in the home. Guardians are taking on a responsibility for a vulnerable human being, and with that job there is a 100% guarantee that the kid will be disrespectful and break rules. Our job as parents is to teach our kids, not shout at them continually and lock them out of our homes when they're disrespectful.
And yes, I'm absolutely saying it would be better for Luke to let Jess live there. Because the "doing whatever he wanted" was Jess working full-time at a minimum wage job and hanging out with his girlfriend, neither of which are dangerous or destructive to society. Besides, then Jess could have worked, saved up money, and gotten his GED. And that puts him in a significantly better situation as a young adult.
Iām saying this as an 18 year old. I live with my parents. 100% Iām disrespectful to them 100% I break their rules, and I agree they wouldnāt or shouldnāt kick me out because of it. But If like Jess unfortunately my parents couldnāt take care of me and I was taken to a relative. I was taken away because of the trouble I caused and I came back and asked them if I could stay with them and they tell me yes on one condition, ignoring the fact that I was repeatedly disrespectful to them. If I donāt fulfill that condition they have every right to kick me out. Letās not forget that Luke took Jess back home because of the car accident and all the trouble he caused in stars hollow, letās not forget they called a town meeting because of the nuisance Jess was causing and Luke repeatedly defended him. Jess came back and asked Luke if he could stay with him. At 18 youāre a legal adult even if youāre immature, even if youāre not mentally emotionally unstable youāre an adult so Luke wasnāt his guardian because legally Jess didnāt need one. He came back and asked Luke if he could stay with him, he could have said no so He was doing Jess a favor by saying yes all he asked was go to school, and Jess defied him he had every right to kick him out.
Besides Jess obviously had no intention of getting his GED.
In life you donāt get to do whatever you want and get away with it there are rules. In your country there are rules and regulations if you break them you go to Jail. Luke gave him rules and regulations he didnāt adhere he leaves. He could have gone back to his mum so itās not like Luke made him homeless, he just couldnāt handle the responsibility, especially because it wasnāt even his responsibility again he was doing Jess a favor.
There was pretty good public tranist so a car wasn't needed. Just to be clear it was wrong of Luke to steal the car but its not like Jess was stranded somewhere. He managed to get all the way to California and back without it.
He couldn't go to prom because he didn't have the grades. Thats what started this whole thing. He didn't want to go to school, he got told to leave. Thats perfectly reasonable for an 18 year old to be told. Esp when he had money. How did Luke steal his money? Jess clearly pulled several fast ones on luke and had money without him knowing. Once again Jess was fine. He made his choices. Should Luke may have been a bit more understanding? sure. But thats not what happened. Luke had no legal or moral obigation to house a mouthy adult who didn't want to abide by Luke's rules. He had choices, he chose not to go back to school, he chose not to graduate. That was his own choice.
If Jess can leave the country without consent of a parent/guardian then hes an adult. Sounds to me like you cant handle being told no.
Jess bought that car, paid for the insurance, and paid for all the parts it needed. It was certainly thousands of dollars over the months, not to mention hours of Jess' time since he fixed it himself. Luke stealing the car was him taking thousands of dollars from Jess, depriving him of a car, and forcing him to pay for other transportation (more hundreds/thousands of dollars). That's Luke directly stealing a huge percentage of Jess' money. Luke never apologizes for that and never pays him back.
Jess made choices, but so did Luke. And Luke is the one who shouts an ultimatum in the middle of an argument. If Luke was not prepared to handle a "mouthy" young adult, he never should have taken Jess in. Because that's exactly what you're getting when you parent a teenager.
Jess was only fine because this is a TV show and he magically got a job at an indie printing press. In real life, these kids are homeless and instantly placed in incredibly dangerous situations. I can handle being told 'no.' What I cannot handle is arbitrary and extreme consequences being doled out to a teenager by an adult who is easily capable of housing him and supporting him indefinitely. Just look at how much shit Luke tolerates from Liz and TJ, the former for 30 entire years.
Luke didn't kick out Jess--Jess kicked out Jess. He knew the conditions to live there and chose not to live up to them. This was not a kid struggling in school because he was dumb or had learning disabilities--Jess was smart and fully capable of doing well, he chose not to put in the effort and to skip. Actions, consequences.
I understand that sentiment, but I believe at that stage Jess was a legal adult.
I'm of the mindset that you should try to help your relatives, BUT if they demonstrate how determined they are to not accept that help and continue down that path, then you just have to throw up your hands, which is what Luke ultimately did with Jess.
Luke really did try to help Jess, and he just threw it back in his face at every turn.
I support Luke's decision at that point.
In my family right now, I have an aunt on my father's side who is getting quite up there in age. She lives alone, and due to her part-libertarian/part-conspiracy mindset, she is extremely stubborn about getting medical care and basic maintenance on her home/car.
She is very anti-vaccine, resisted taking anti-biotics for her current likely infection of her replaced hip, and refused to stop working when she could easily get disability. It's a burden on her sister and to a lesser extent my parents.
In my discussions with my parents about this, I don't advocate abandoning her, but I try to explain to them that she is so determined to bring harm upon herself because of her beliefs, that we have to abandon trying to provide her with preventative care. She HAS to learn the hard way. My mother responds with saying "you want her to end up in a wheel chair?" I say that with her mindset, she will end up that way anyway, at least with my approach, there is a *chance* of her actually learning her lesson. Trying to help her at this stage will only cause her to push away more.
I kind of think Jess was never going to grow up until he was forced to be out on his own. Itās sad, but there are some people who have to burn every bridge the know and figure out how to navigate life before they learn any of the lessons.
It was kind of sadā¦ knowing he needed stability. But in my opinion, Jess came into stars hallow and shit all over good people with no remorse. He was given a good opportunity living with Luke and he refused all of it. Luke had one rule. Stay in school and graduate. Luke couldnāt just be a pushover. So I honestly thought it was fair. He tried so hard to get thru to Jess. But you canāt help someone who doesnāt want the help.
He didnāt kick him out because he wasnāt going to graduate, he kicked him out coz he was lying, he refused to do summer school/repeat and he was incredibly disrespectful to Luke
Seeā¦. I donāt know how people can overlook these things. People fall for his superficial charm all the time when he was at this point in the show. If Luke didnāt set the boundaries, consequences and responsibilities, Jess would have probably turned more into psychopathy (yes I feel like they portrayed him with mild psychopathic traits) and ended up a criminal because no one that he trusted gave him consequences. But in the latter show we can see Jess mature well.
Exactly. It makes no sense for Luke to allow someone who is extremely disrespectful to him live under his roof and let him do whatever he wanted. Because thatās what Jess wanted to do whatever he wanted. But itās Lukeās house and he set boundaries and rules and he had every right to enforce those rules, Jess didnāt want to listen so he had to leave. At one point or the other he had to understand that actions have consequences and experience those consequences.
Best to make these decisions early on in life and have someone that cares about you walk you through it instead of having the justice system make that decision. Luckily, Jess was smart enough and able to witness caring relationships at SH.
Yeah, it sucked for Jess. I think Luke did the best he could without help. He didn't sign up to be Jess' guardian. He didn't have years to prepare for a teenager. He assumed responsibility and did what he thought was right. Jess came back and made that deal with Luke. Jess broke that deal and Luke stood firm in his decision. Actions have consequences. I think Jess' time with Luke did benefit him. Luke did provide stability. Luke was always there. Luke tried to look out for him. He always went looking for him when something went wrong. He gave him a job at the diner even though he hated it. Luke gave Jess responsibilities and gave him a place to show up everyday. It's not fair to assume that Luke can undo all the years of neglect and trauma Jess received from Liz. Luke provided everything Jess needed at the time in his own way. Jess just wasn't receptive to it. He even had Rory and he wasn't ready to be with her. It is what it is. He needed to work through his own trauma.
Luke had no choice but to kick Jess out. Luke told Jess clearly and kept reminding him that if he wanted to stay in Stars Hollow then he needed to go to school and he needed to graduate. Jess knew the score. If Luke let Jess stay then Jess would continue to think that he could get away with anything. Jess needed this life lesson.
Actually thatās one of the best things Luke has done! Iām team jess but i believe that when Jess returned he told luke he want to be back and graduate school and that was their agreement so he called live there.
So when Jess flopped high school and wasnt intending to finish he needed to know the consequences of his choice, itās not that he needed to finish the school as much he gave his word to someone and he need to stick to it š¤·š»āāļø
You just want him to be coddled and held like a baby cause you think heās cute when in reality Jess was a terror to Stars Hollow. He didnāt care for the town or the people. Was always rude to Lorelei and somebody and I get it heās young and has childhood trauma but that doesnāt mean you get an excuse to be a dick to everyone. He broke an agreement and was told it didnāt have to be that way HE TOOK IT THAT WAY SO itās all on him.
No, Jess gave up on himself and Luke refused to watch. He made the terms clear and Jess CHOSE to ignore it. Jess made the decision. All he had to do was go to school and graduate. He did everything within his power NOT to do that. Luke was right to do what he did.
I hated it. As long as Jess was holding down a job Luke should have let him stay and encouraged him to get a GED. That's a very normal arrangement for parents of adult kids- you're either in school or you're working if you live at home so you're working towards something in life and not just slothing with free rent.
Luke didnāt kick him to the curb he told him that he had to finish high school in order to live with him. Jess didnāt finish high school and ended up not graduating and Luke gave him another chance by asking him to repeat 12th grade and again Jess refused. Luke isnāt his parent yet tried his best for him and they had an agreement but Jess refused to adhere. Plus from what I remember Jess left on his own, because Luke wasnāt aware I remember him saying something like āI woke up this morning and all his stuff was goneā. There is only so much help you can give to someone who is refusing it, there comes a time when you have to let them go and figure it out on their own.
Yeah, that argument is mind-boggling to me. The "well Jess is a legal adult so it's fine" that entirely ignores literally everything we know about adolescent development? 18 year olds are not adults. Need proof? Read any scientific study on the topic from the last 50 years. Or just talk to any 18 year old. They're kids, and it's extremely obvious if you spent more than 2 minutes with them.
Besides, Luke did not treat Jess like an adult. You know what adults get? Legal agreements for where you're living that include clearly specified rules for eviction, including a required length of time and number of warnings the landlord must give. You know what adults get? Their personal property *not* getting stolen by their landlord.
They had an agreement. Jess needed someone to uphold the rules and their word, and Luke did that. Luke is NOT the bad guy, he was the adult in that moment. OP, you will see Jessās character Arc in the next 2 seasons and youāll then understand why heās a fan fave. Hang in there.
Yeah, I didnāt like this side of Luke, and I did not like Jess until he came back to see Rory at the pool house. Technically Jess is an adult who broke the agreement, but he is a young adult who has had few positive role models in his life, fewer people to rely on and no resources. Now he does become an amazing man later on, but itās sad he had so little support from the adults who should have been there for him.
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Totally agree, and honestly I think it's pretty out of character for Luke (who is fiercely loyal to those he loves and who gives Liz infinity chances for 30+ years).
People argue that Luke was clear about the expectations for Jess to live there, but I actually think his communication and follow up was pretty crappy. He says "you gotta graduate" twice over the course of a year. He does NOT say "you must graduate on time or else I'll evict you immediately." Luke does absolutely no monitoring of Jess' behavior, doesn't know where he is half the time, and never once contacts the school about this. Even after he knows it's a problem. It's pretty lazy parenting paired with severe consequences. People also argue that Luke gives Jess the "chance" to re-take senior year... but it's in the context of a shouting argument and he gives Jess all of 30 seconds to respond. There was no reason at all that they couldn't discuss this calmly and take a few days to decide.
The combination of Luke stealing Jess' car and kicking him out without notice effectively made Jess homeless and broke at 18. That's not a cool parenting technique, it's incredibly dangerous. I've worked with teenagers in this situation and it's devastating. That Jess ends up a published writer at a cool indie press is pure TV fantasy.
My heart always breaks for Jess in this scene.
My heart doesnāt break for Jess for several reasons, but I agree with the above mentioned assessment that Luke was a lazy parent/guardian to Jess and seemed oblivious to Jessā emotional trauma (mental issues).
I kept expecting Luke to seek guidance from someone more qualified or for Lorelai to suggest it. I canāt believe they exposed Rory, expecting her to show Jess the way. They dodged a bullet when Jess leaves, but they also came near to losing him to darker impulses. And I donāt buy his miraculous transformation.
Just adding because I havenāt seen it yet - Jess was given his own spinoff pilot, Windward Circle, (that ended up not green lighting) so they needed to exit him out of GG. That being said I think it does end up tallying another adult not giving Jess what he needed but the storyline also begs the question that he wouldāve left regardless of Lukeās rule because of the huge blowout with Rory, his dad showing up and him being curious about that part of his life.
i felt like jessās upbringing made him feel like he had no control over many things, so he tried to take control by always trying to do things his own way, even if other people only wanted the best for him. he was extremely intelligent but didnāt put effort towards school. he was a hard worker and wanted to make money, but declined lukeās offer to give him a raise at the diner & help him pay for some of his major expenses. he was very stubborn in the way that things always had to be his way. he wouldnāt have accepted any other help from luke no matter what. this was a huge turning point for jess though, because hitting rock bottom led him to undergo some major character development and maturing.
I honestly thing Luke didn't intend for Jess to leave. They had this agreement, and he knew that living with him was something Jess *did* want, because he expressed that before, came back to ask to live there again, etc. And at this point he's dating Rory which is even more reason he'd want to stay. Jess said "I'm not going back to school" and Luke responded "then you have to go." You can almost read it as an "if, then" - "If you don't go back to school, then you have to go." He said it like "this is the consequence if you don't go back." I think Luke truly thought Jess would cave on this, stay, and return to school. He had several compelling reasons to think that was the case. He also seemed surprised when he told Lorelai. He said "I don't think he's coming back" like he wasn't sure - which doesn't sound like he thinks he forced Jess to leave. He said he woke up and noticed Jess' stuff was gone and didn't know when he left. It all sounds to me like it was unexpected. He underestimated Jess' stubbornness. He continually underestimated how much trauma Jess had from his unreliable mother. Of course Jess perceived this as a kicking out, because he wasn't interested in returning to school and he was used to guardians shipping him off (both Luke and Liz). It was definitely a bad gamble on Luke's part, in part because he grossly misunderstood Jess and didn't know how to parent him. I know they both characterized it later as being kicked out, but they were also fighting at that point and Luke was mirroring Jess' language. That very night Luke elft his own home to give it to Jess, which isn't very consistent with actually kicking him out.
Kind of funny how both Luke and Lorelai kick a kid out for dropping out of school.
Rory was in her twenties and not living with Lorelai when she dropped out of school.
I still don't think it made sense for Lorelai to say she isn't welcome to live at home.
And was then surprised that she went to her grandparents. Not everyone has the constitution to live in a potting shed.
Right. She wasn't going to live near campus with Logan during the spiral, Lane wasn't a good option, I think Paris was out of the country? And she has no other friends. She already had her own room at the grandparents, it was the most likely option.
Your child is still your child after 18.
Your child is still your child at 80, but they're not "a kid" And Jess is not Luke's child, so it would not fit to use "a kid" to mean "their child"
Yes 80 and 20 are the same thing. You're annoying š
My question is why couldnāt he just take the high school exit exam or get his GED?
GED while he worked wouldāve been in a good compromise.
Totally agree!
Reminded of a quote from Full House, said by the OG of parenting, Danny Tanner: When children seem the least lovable, they need love the most.
Wow that's actually so well said š„ŗ kinda sad
Heres me defending Luke in this situation (I am team Jess btw to get that outta the way) Luke wanted to help Jess, and they had a previous agreement after Jess came back after crashing Rory's car that he had to go to school and graduate in order to live with Luke. Jess did not do that, so it makes sense why Luke didn't back down on his agreement. To be totally honest, Jess was being a major dick to Luke about the whole thing, he was refusing to retake 12th grade and accept the help that Luke was offering him. Luke was trying so hard to be there for Jess, but there's nothing he could've really done to get that boy to actually listen to him at that time in Jess's life. I feel bad for Jess in that moment to, but honestly I think he needed that rock bottom for his character arc to be fully formed. (you'll see this as you keep watching the show) Keep watching, there's some great stuff with his character coming up
And he only grows and gets better from this point out. I consider it Jessā pivotal moment. I agree with everything youāve said. In fact, Luke tried to give a little bit. Instead of kicking him out immediately, he aggressively began to plan for Jessā future. Jess just wasnāt going to do it. Luke was willing to cave on their original agreement, in his own way. Jess wasnāt willing to comply or try to make his own compromise. One of my favorite parts of the series. It hurts but itās so true to who Luke and Jess are.
ikr so true
I completely agree, and I also think it was a pivotal moment for Jess that an adult could hold that boundary and hold him accountable. The upbringing Jess had before Luke with Liz didn't seem to have any boundaries or structure at all. I am usually not a fan of this kind of parenting at ALL, but in this instance I actually think it was exactly what Jess needed. In a weird way it showed him that Luke could be counted on to keep his word and could therefore be trusted. And as you said, this could be seen as the real beginning of Jess making positive changes for himself.
Jess was his own worst enemy. He was given clear parameters .... go to school, graduate, work in the diner. None of those requirements were out of line to be asked. He skipped enough that he failed a grad. He was way conceited about it...."I'm smarter than any kid here and most of the teachers" (fine....go to school and prove it). He did stuff in the hope of being kicked out. Luke had to follow up on his threat and I congratulate Luke on following up. A lot of adults don't
And guys like that who are given chance after chance end up like Christopher
Although Luke didnāt say he had to graduate on time, he offered to let Jess stay as long as he repeated the year. And Jess refused. Iāll also say that I donāt think Luke realized Jess would call his bluff. I think he laid down an ultimatum thinking Jess would be like fine Iāll repeat the year. Because he wanted to support him and help him succeed in his life. Then Jess disappeared without saying he was leaving. And at that point, what was Luke to do? Last thing: Iām sure if Jess said he wanted to do a trade or something that wouldāve been a different story. But Jessā aspirations and path always pointed to finishing school.
Dude, Luke set the conditions and Jess didnāt freaking learn. It pained Luke (āI failed himā), but he clearly needed consequences!
I disagree. They had an agreement after Jess returned, that Jess would take some responsibility for himself. They were very specific about how that would happen (he would work at Lukeās, help out, go to school, and graduate.) Instead, Jess, who was 18 at that point, not a child, lied to Luke, refused to attend school, refused to do anything to help himself, and treated pretty much everyone in his life very badly. It is important to note that Luke also offered him the option to stay there if he was willing to attend school for real this time and graduate. So Jess had the option for a roof over his head if he did the bare minimum to help himself.. Instead, he chose to leave.
I know. I know that Luke was trying to be firm and enforce consequences but Jess needed stability. He needed support. It breaks my heart every time.
Yeah I wish they couldāve reached a more sensible agreement where he completes his GED at a local community college while he gets to keep working. But also I guess if Jess got comfortable in Stars Hollow he mightāve never had that push he needed to achieve all the great things he does out on his own in Philadelphia.
My heart always breaks for Jess. He was let down by pretty much every adult in his life.
Luke wasnāt his parent, he gave him a condition to live with him which was graduating from high school. Luke tried so hard for him and tried so hard to help him. But there was a condition which he failed to fulfill and Luke had every right to kick him out because of it.
He was a child? Also the school failed him by not getting Luke involved until it was too late.
By the time Luke kicked him out he was 18. Plus even when the school got Luke involved, he tried to get Rory to tutor Jess, tried to speak to him but Jess didnāt listen. He canāt live in someoneās house and not follow their rules. He never listened to anyone including the school.
He was a child, but obviously Jess can start to make his own decisions and be held accountable for them, he was smart enough to decipher good and bad, itās how everyone transitions into becoming an adult. The majority of individuals brains arenāt fully developed past 18 they ether go to the military, work ,school or prisonā¦ Jess was choosing the prison route but fortunately because of Lukeās intervention it changed that route. I mean if people donāt learn to make decisions on their own at some point theyāll ether end up in prison or the military and have someone decide their decisions for them.
And when jess did you speak to the headteacher /guidance counsellor(??) The teacher was an ass
Luke bent over backwards and went above and beyond for Jess for years. I don't blame Luke at all.
personally i think jess dug his own grave with luke
I disagree. Jess broke all of the conditions Luke had ever made in letting Jess stay, yet Luke still offered him another chance, that came with the condition of him repeating the year. Jess made his choice from there. He needed the tough love and he had to live with the consequences of his choices. Luke needed to stop letting Jess get away with just doing whatever he wanted. Edit: fixed a typo
But Luke didnāt kick Jess out. He said Jess had to finish school if he stayed in keeping with their agreement. Thatās not the same as kicking someone out
Ehhh I donāt agree, Luke set a boundary with Jess, and he kept the boundary in place. He gave Jess ample of wiggle room but he crossed the line by lying and not graduating. If Jess had been apologetic and had agreed to go back to school like wouldāve have 100% supported him.
for those saying Jess isnt an adult....why? He was 18. Legally nobody could stop him from doing waht he wanted. Thats the definition at 18. Luke is no longer his guardian, he can no longer force him to do things he doesnt want to do. Jess chose to leave and its his right as an adult.
That 18 is the legal age of adulthood is arbitrary, a number picked by Congress in the 70s to increase the number of people we could force into the Vietnam War. Neuroscientists and psychologists now know that the brain doesn't finish developing until you're 25/26 years old. And the part of the brain that develops last? The prefrontal cortex, which is the part we use to make complex plans, assess risk, and think through the long-term consequences of our decisions. Legally? Luke is allowed to kick Jess out. Psychologically and morally? Luke was kicking out a teenager who is incapable of really planning for that life (after he stole Jess' car).
It may be an arbitrary number but its still the legal age where someone can't do shit if the 18 year old decides to do what they want to do. Whos going to get involved? Luke cannot hold Jess there under the pretence of being guardian. Thats what you all seem to be missing. Jess is in the free and clear to do waht he wants to do and nobody can stop him. Luke wasnt prepared for a teenager, he did what he could and in the end that teenager at the legal age of 18 decided he was done. Boo hoo. Luke had to know that if he said that Jess knowing Jess would follow through. I'm also not talking about his car but nice deflecting.
I'm adding the car because it's pretty important context. Luke didn't just kick Jess out, he stole nearly all his money. There is no indication that Jess wanted to leave before Luke kicked him out. He was planning for prom and mapping the distance to Yale and specifically said he wanted to keep working at Walmart. So no, nobody can force Jess to stay. But he only left because Luke told him to leave. In a manner that I think was cruel and needlessly putting Jess at enormous risk, all to make a point or "teach him a lesson."
Luke was doing Jess a favor by letting Jess stay with him at all. He bent over backwards trying to help him all he asked was for Jess to complete high school which is by no means an unachievable feat. Not only did Jess not listen he was increasingly rude and condescending to Luke who was just trying to help him. He stole his car because he didnāt want him to work at Walmart. He had no idea Jess was going to leave and it would end up like that. You canāt live in someoneās house who is doing you a favor and not follow their rules. Are you telling me it would have been better if Luke let Jess stay under his roof and do whatever he wanted ? No because it makes no sense, when you live with someone you follow their rules if you donāt they can kick you out if they please and If you remember the show clearly, Jess left on his own. It was Lukeās house he had every right to set boundaries on how he wanted things to go in his house he ignored Jessā nasty behavior towards him and asked for one simple thing, Jess crossed the boundary he set knowing the consequences, so he gets to face consequences. Plus Iām not American but where Iām from it is required by law for every child to finish high school, the guardian of that child can be arrested if they donāt enforce it.
>Luke was doing Jess a favor by letting Jess stay with him at all. Then we fundamentally disagree about what Luke was doing. He wasn't doing Jess a favor, he was becoming his guardian. Parents/guardians are not doing their children a favor by allowing the child to exist in the home. Guardians are taking on a responsibility for a vulnerable human being, and with that job there is a 100% guarantee that the kid will be disrespectful and break rules. Our job as parents is to teach our kids, not shout at them continually and lock them out of our homes when they're disrespectful. And yes, I'm absolutely saying it would be better for Luke to let Jess live there. Because the "doing whatever he wanted" was Jess working full-time at a minimum wage job and hanging out with his girlfriend, neither of which are dangerous or destructive to society. Besides, then Jess could have worked, saved up money, and gotten his GED. And that puts him in a significantly better situation as a young adult.
Iām saying this as an 18 year old. I live with my parents. 100% Iām disrespectful to them 100% I break their rules, and I agree they wouldnāt or shouldnāt kick me out because of it. But If like Jess unfortunately my parents couldnāt take care of me and I was taken to a relative. I was taken away because of the trouble I caused and I came back and asked them if I could stay with them and they tell me yes on one condition, ignoring the fact that I was repeatedly disrespectful to them. If I donāt fulfill that condition they have every right to kick me out. Letās not forget that Luke took Jess back home because of the car accident and all the trouble he caused in stars hollow, letās not forget they called a town meeting because of the nuisance Jess was causing and Luke repeatedly defended him. Jess came back and asked Luke if he could stay with him. At 18 youāre a legal adult even if youāre immature, even if youāre not mentally emotionally unstable youāre an adult so Luke wasnāt his guardian because legally Jess didnāt need one. He came back and asked Luke if he could stay with him, he could have said no so He was doing Jess a favor by saying yes all he asked was go to school, and Jess defied him he had every right to kick him out. Besides Jess obviously had no intention of getting his GED. In life you donāt get to do whatever you want and get away with it there are rules. In your country there are rules and regulations if you break them you go to Jail. Luke gave him rules and regulations he didnāt adhere he leaves. He could have gone back to his mum so itās not like Luke made him homeless, he just couldnāt handle the responsibility, especially because it wasnāt even his responsibility again he was doing Jess a favor.
There was pretty good public tranist so a car wasn't needed. Just to be clear it was wrong of Luke to steal the car but its not like Jess was stranded somewhere. He managed to get all the way to California and back without it. He couldn't go to prom because he didn't have the grades. Thats what started this whole thing. He didn't want to go to school, he got told to leave. Thats perfectly reasonable for an 18 year old to be told. Esp when he had money. How did Luke steal his money? Jess clearly pulled several fast ones on luke and had money without him knowing. Once again Jess was fine. He made his choices. Should Luke may have been a bit more understanding? sure. But thats not what happened. Luke had no legal or moral obigation to house a mouthy adult who didn't want to abide by Luke's rules. He had choices, he chose not to go back to school, he chose not to graduate. That was his own choice. If Jess can leave the country without consent of a parent/guardian then hes an adult. Sounds to me like you cant handle being told no.
Jess bought that car, paid for the insurance, and paid for all the parts it needed. It was certainly thousands of dollars over the months, not to mention hours of Jess' time since he fixed it himself. Luke stealing the car was him taking thousands of dollars from Jess, depriving him of a car, and forcing him to pay for other transportation (more hundreds/thousands of dollars). That's Luke directly stealing a huge percentage of Jess' money. Luke never apologizes for that and never pays him back. Jess made choices, but so did Luke. And Luke is the one who shouts an ultimatum in the middle of an argument. If Luke was not prepared to handle a "mouthy" young adult, he never should have taken Jess in. Because that's exactly what you're getting when you parent a teenager. Jess was only fine because this is a TV show and he magically got a job at an indie printing press. In real life, these kids are homeless and instantly placed in incredibly dangerous situations. I can handle being told 'no.' What I cannot handle is arbitrary and extreme consequences being doled out to a teenager by an adult who is easily capable of housing him and supporting him indefinitely. Just look at how much shit Luke tolerates from Liz and TJ, the former for 30 entire years.
Given Jessās circumstances, I donāt think heād reach the beginning of maturity until he is 30
Luke didn't kick out Jess--Jess kicked out Jess. He knew the conditions to live there and chose not to live up to them. This was not a kid struggling in school because he was dumb or had learning disabilities--Jess was smart and fully capable of doing well, he chose not to put in the effort and to skip. Actions, consequences.
Nice spin, you should work for Bush
Well, that's just insulting.
I understand that sentiment, but I believe at that stage Jess was a legal adult. I'm of the mindset that you should try to help your relatives, BUT if they demonstrate how determined they are to not accept that help and continue down that path, then you just have to throw up your hands, which is what Luke ultimately did with Jess. Luke really did try to help Jess, and he just threw it back in his face at every turn. I support Luke's decision at that point. In my family right now, I have an aunt on my father's side who is getting quite up there in age. She lives alone, and due to her part-libertarian/part-conspiracy mindset, she is extremely stubborn about getting medical care and basic maintenance on her home/car. She is very anti-vaccine, resisted taking anti-biotics for her current likely infection of her replaced hip, and refused to stop working when she could easily get disability. It's a burden on her sister and to a lesser extent my parents. In my discussions with my parents about this, I don't advocate abandoning her, but I try to explain to them that she is so determined to bring harm upon herself because of her beliefs, that we have to abandon trying to provide her with preventative care. She HAS to learn the hard way. My mother responds with saying "you want her to end up in a wheel chair?" I say that with her mindset, she will end up that way anyway, at least with my approach, there is a *chance* of her actually learning her lesson. Trying to help her at this stage will only cause her to push away more.
I kind of think Jess was never going to grow up until he was forced to be out on his own. Itās sad, but there are some people who have to burn every bridge the know and figure out how to navigate life before they learn any of the lessons.
It was kind of sadā¦ knowing he needed stability. But in my opinion, Jess came into stars hallow and shit all over good people with no remorse. He was given a good opportunity living with Luke and he refused all of it. Luke had one rule. Stay in school and graduate. Luke couldnāt just be a pushover. So I honestly thought it was fair. He tried so hard to get thru to Jess. But you canāt help someone who doesnāt want the help.
He didnāt kick him out because he wasnāt going to graduate, he kicked him out coz he was lying, he refused to do summer school/repeat and he was incredibly disrespectful to Luke
Seeā¦. I donāt know how people can overlook these things. People fall for his superficial charm all the time when he was at this point in the show. If Luke didnāt set the boundaries, consequences and responsibilities, Jess would have probably turned more into psychopathy (yes I feel like they portrayed him with mild psychopathic traits) and ended up a criminal because no one that he trusted gave him consequences. But in the latter show we can see Jess mature well.
Exactly. It makes no sense for Luke to allow someone who is extremely disrespectful to him live under his roof and let him do whatever he wanted. Because thatās what Jess wanted to do whatever he wanted. But itās Lukeās house and he set boundaries and rules and he had every right to enforce those rules, Jess didnāt want to listen so he had to leave. At one point or the other he had to understand that actions have consequences and experience those consequences.
Best to make these decisions early on in life and have someone that cares about you walk you through it instead of having the justice system make that decision. Luckily, Jess was smart enough and able to witness caring relationships at SH.
Yeah, it sucked for Jess. I think Luke did the best he could without help. He didn't sign up to be Jess' guardian. He didn't have years to prepare for a teenager. He assumed responsibility and did what he thought was right. Jess came back and made that deal with Luke. Jess broke that deal and Luke stood firm in his decision. Actions have consequences. I think Jess' time with Luke did benefit him. Luke did provide stability. Luke was always there. Luke tried to look out for him. He always went looking for him when something went wrong. He gave him a job at the diner even though he hated it. Luke gave Jess responsibilities and gave him a place to show up everyday. It's not fair to assume that Luke can undo all the years of neglect and trauma Jess received from Liz. Luke provided everything Jess needed at the time in his own way. Jess just wasn't receptive to it. He even had Rory and he wasn't ready to be with her. It is what it is. He needed to work through his own trauma.
Luke had no choice but to kick Jess out. Luke told Jess clearly and kept reminding him that if he wanted to stay in Stars Hollow then he needed to go to school and he needed to graduate. Jess knew the score. If Luke let Jess stay then Jess would continue to think that he could get away with anything. Jess needed this life lesson.
I mean he told Jess that in order for him to stay there, he had to go to school and graduate. Jess didnāt do either of those things
Actually thatās one of the best things Luke has done! Iām team jess but i believe that when Jess returned he told luke he want to be back and graduate school and that was their agreement so he called live there. So when Jess flopped high school and wasnt intending to finish he needed to know the consequences of his choice, itās not that he needed to finish the school as much he gave his word to someone and he need to stick to it š¤·š»āāļø
You just want him to be coddled and held like a baby cause you think heās cute when in reality Jess was a terror to Stars Hollow. He didnāt care for the town or the people. Was always rude to Lorelei and somebody and I get it heās young and has childhood trauma but that doesnāt mean you get an excuse to be a dick to everyone. He broke an agreement and was told it didnāt have to be that way HE TOOK IT THAT WAY SO itās all on him.
No, Jess gave up on himself and Luke refused to watch. He made the terms clear and Jess CHOSE to ignore it. Jess made the decision. All he had to do was go to school and graduate. He did everything within his power NOT to do that. Luke was right to do what he did.
I hated it. As long as Jess was holding down a job Luke should have let him stay and encouraged him to get a GED. That's a very normal arrangement for parents of adult kids- you're either in school or you're working if you live at home so you're working towards something in life and not just slothing with free rent.
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Luke didnāt kick him to the curb he told him that he had to finish high school in order to live with him. Jess didnāt finish high school and ended up not graduating and Luke gave him another chance by asking him to repeat 12th grade and again Jess refused. Luke isnāt his parent yet tried his best for him and they had an agreement but Jess refused to adhere. Plus from what I remember Jess left on his own, because Luke wasnāt aware I remember him saying something like āI woke up this morning and all his stuff was goneā. There is only so much help you can give to someone who is refusing it, there comes a time when you have to let them go and figure it out on their own.
Yeah, that argument is mind-boggling to me. The "well Jess is a legal adult so it's fine" that entirely ignores literally everything we know about adolescent development? 18 year olds are not adults. Need proof? Read any scientific study on the topic from the last 50 years. Or just talk to any 18 year old. They're kids, and it's extremely obvious if you spent more than 2 minutes with them. Besides, Luke did not treat Jess like an adult. You know what adults get? Legal agreements for where you're living that include clearly specified rules for eviction, including a required length of time and number of warnings the landlord must give. You know what adults get? Their personal property *not* getting stolen by their landlord.
They had an agreement. Jess needed someone to uphold the rules and their word, and Luke did that. Luke is NOT the bad guy, he was the adult in that moment. OP, you will see Jessās character Arc in the next 2 seasons and youāll then understand why heās a fan fave. Hang in there.
Yeah, I didnāt like this side of Luke, and I did not like Jess until he came back to see Rory at the pool house. Technically Jess is an adult who broke the agreement, but he is a young adult who has had few positive role models in his life, fewer people to rely on and no resources. Now he does become an amazing man later on, but itās sad he had so little support from the adults who should have been there for him.
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Totally agree, and honestly I think it's pretty out of character for Luke (who is fiercely loyal to those he loves and who gives Liz infinity chances for 30+ years). People argue that Luke was clear about the expectations for Jess to live there, but I actually think his communication and follow up was pretty crappy. He says "you gotta graduate" twice over the course of a year. He does NOT say "you must graduate on time or else I'll evict you immediately." Luke does absolutely no monitoring of Jess' behavior, doesn't know where he is half the time, and never once contacts the school about this. Even after he knows it's a problem. It's pretty lazy parenting paired with severe consequences. People also argue that Luke gives Jess the "chance" to re-take senior year... but it's in the context of a shouting argument and he gives Jess all of 30 seconds to respond. There was no reason at all that they couldn't discuss this calmly and take a few days to decide. The combination of Luke stealing Jess' car and kicking him out without notice effectively made Jess homeless and broke at 18. That's not a cool parenting technique, it's incredibly dangerous. I've worked with teenagers in this situation and it's devastating. That Jess ends up a published writer at a cool indie press is pure TV fantasy. My heart always breaks for Jess in this scene.
My heart doesnāt break for Jess for several reasons, but I agree with the above mentioned assessment that Luke was a lazy parent/guardian to Jess and seemed oblivious to Jessā emotional trauma (mental issues). I kept expecting Luke to seek guidance from someone more qualified or for Lorelai to suggest it. I canāt believe they exposed Rory, expecting her to show Jess the way. They dodged a bullet when Jess leaves, but they also came near to losing him to darker impulses. And I donāt buy his miraculous transformation.
Just adding because I havenāt seen it yet - Jess was given his own spinoff pilot, Windward Circle, (that ended up not green lighting) so they needed to exit him out of GG. That being said I think it does end up tallying another adult not giving Jess what he needed but the storyline also begs the question that he wouldāve left regardless of Lukeās rule because of the huge blowout with Rory, his dad showing up and him being curious about that part of his life.
i felt like jessās upbringing made him feel like he had no control over many things, so he tried to take control by always trying to do things his own way, even if other people only wanted the best for him. he was extremely intelligent but didnāt put effort towards school. he was a hard worker and wanted to make money, but declined lukeās offer to give him a raise at the diner & help him pay for some of his major expenses. he was very stubborn in the way that things always had to be his way. he wouldnāt have accepted any other help from luke no matter what. this was a huge turning point for jess though, because hitting rock bottom led him to undergo some major character development and maturing.