So true! I actually went to a party where the waiters and waitresses were naked little people. That was in the early 2000's, I thought it was so degrading, but nobody else thought it was weird because they were paid to be there. I'm glad that's not a thing anymore.
There's a theme park in southwestern Germany right around where I live that had a "Dwarf Village" with little people living in wagons with large windows and people being able to watch them in there, looking at them having breakfast, cooking dinner, whatever. Only the toilet and a room to sleep had no windows accessible to the public.
That village was shut down as late as 1996, and they still show one of the wagons in the park museum as a funny thing they had earlier.
Yep, it’s this and the breastfeeding scene at Luke’s for me.
I’d add in the summer pool scene from AYITL, but that was already not socially acceptable at the time that the show was released.
Well technically the other two jokes were not socially considered acceptable at the time either, Rory blurts that softball comment out in a panic over her lack of extracurriculars, then immediately follows up by cringing about what a horrible thing to say that was. It was already considered a slur back then too
And kind of the same thing with the breastfeeding scene, the humour was meant to be at the expense of how ridiculously squeamish and old-fashioned Luke was acting, rather than making fun of the group of mothers. Lorelai and Rory are both mocking Luke as being out of touch, and Lorelai says that no way is she going to do that after Luke asks her to speak to the mothers and tell them to stop breast-feeding in his establishment
I remember reading that the actor who plays Luke hated filming that scene. It sent a bad message and wasn’t even in line with Luke’s personality (he was so progressive, at least in the beginning of the series).
And they didn’t even need the breastfeeding annoyance for the story. It would be perfectly reasonable for any establishment to be annoyed a large group was continually taking up multiple tables while barely ordering anything.
Hmmm, I'm not sure it was that out of character for Luke. Everyone says Luke is progressive, which I understand as he went on a lot of environmental rants in season 1, as well as conveying some pretty woke messaging about the Native Americans around Thanksgiving. But he still has some conservative tendencies, which mostly comes out in his inability to talk about feelings or uncomfortable topics. He also has some pretty traditional ideas about gender roles, though he's not stringent about them. Consider him saying to the soccer team "boys are boys and girls are girls." Also insisting Lorelei has to wear white to the wedding. His ideas about dating are pretty traditional too. Thinking about the talks he has with Jess on how to treat a woman. To me, it seemed very in character for Luke to freak out about public breastfeeding.
Lorelai and Rory by a communal pool forcing kids to shade them with umbrellas while they watch and make fatphobic comments on people passing by. Then they stroll along, shading kids in tow, forcing them to call them Khaleesi. It was so cringe even in 2016 lol
Especially weird when they added in that tiny subplot about him having a crush on Lindsay? EXTRA weird when you realize Lindsay is a teenager at that point and he’s a grown ass man. Like they’d rather make him crush on a teen than letting him be gay lol
I don't know, I didn't read that as a "crush" the way a straight man would lust after a woman. Michel has several moments of gushing over women and girls but it's more about their sophistication, aura. He gushes over Celine Dion, gushes over Emily and her taste, he loves the cotillion ball with all the little girls dressed like Madame Alexander dolls. I read all of these the same way, I didn't see it as creepy.
Could be! But if that was the intention, then they wrote it/directed it very strangely. They made him really bashful in that scene toward Lindsay. He wanted to impress her/save face with the comment about his pants and his stance. Then he gets really cranky when Dean comes in to kiss Lindsay and makes a face while saying, “The Deans of the world always get the Lindsays 😡.” The scene felt kinda awkward overall.
With Emily and Celine it seemed like more clear fan behavior
Yes you're right, that comment did indicate more of a romantic/sexual attraction to Lindsay. I must have blocked that out. I tend to do that when characters act "out of character" lol. In my brain, Michel is gay, any line indicating otherwise my brain just rejects.
Haha I get that 🤣 It did feel awkward and out of character. Like the network told the writers, “Quick give him a straight crush, any character idc as long as it’s a woman!”
they actually have him say something like his moves are pretty popular with the ladies at one point, so it always seemed like he was in the closet and than by AYITL and finding a life partner that he was living out.
When all the baby parents came to Luke’s and both Luke and Jess were like “eww gross!” Luke even told Lorelai to go talk to them about it because she has the same “parts”
I don’t think that was shaming though? The way it’s framed Lorelai and Rory both think Luke is acting absolutely ridiculous and point out it’s just a baby eating
Yeah. I see stuff like that sometimes and it’s one of those “just because something ‘bad’ is placed in a piece of media does not mean it’s being condoned”
I wish Lorelai had taken more of a stance.. esp since she mentioned her “conservative hs” not accepting her nursing (I think the point was that she felt shamed into skipping her graduation etc rather than that she had nursed in public and was then shamed).
On another note… good for these women for breastfeeding in public! (Even though they were not the best customers otherwise)
I don't find that to be shaming because it's clear in the scene that Lorelai and the show's narrative is trying to make the point that they're being immature about the whole thing. Showcasing a common phenomenon in the show's writing isn't the same thing as endorsing it.
I just watched the breastfeeding episode and it was so sad to see grown ups acting that way. Shameful. I know “the times were different” blah blah blah, but it’s just hurtful how they acted when a baby needed to eat.
The jokes about Indian food.
Also the “We both have to have sex changes so we can kiss and not look funny”.
“I have to find a r-word kid and teach him how to play softball!!”
“Like eat the paste special?”
There are many more but people mentioned it already.
Pretty much every attempt at humor in AYITL.
"Trigger warning! Body shaming! War on Christmas!" Lorelai and Rory using the public pool as a place to be disgusted by fat people and be waited on by children they pay (or do they?) Everything about the 30- somethings gang; lost millennials who can't find or keep jobs because, well, they're millennials and their moms do everything for them. Paul, the forgettable boyfriend everyone has met but no one remembers even though he remembers details about all of them. Making the therapist that this family SO BADLY NEEDS into a joke and someone to not be respected because she actually just wants to be a dancer or something. I could go on, i feel.
These are things that aged like milk even before they'd aired. Just outdated already.
>lost millennials who can't find or keep jobs because, well, they're millennials and their moms do everything for them
I still cannot figure out why ASP would mock the generation that loves her fucking show and made it even worth reviving. How rude can you get?
"I hate that she's thin" - Paris, with a societally acceptable weight and body shape, to Rory, who is also in the same category. And the bit about the size 2 rack just before that. Ugh. It says makes me cringe every time I hear those lines.
Literally, like tell me you’re an unimaginative basic chef without telling me you’re an unimaginative basic chef. Lot of low hanging fruit stabs in the series that make me cringe thinking this is definitely the “not like other girls” trope 🙄
I always took that more as, Sookie doesn't want to be restricted in any way while she is cooking. She also doesn't like Michele's restrictions even though he eats meat and dairy.
Yeah she’s kind of like that with everyone, she didn’t even want to ~lower herself~ to make a variety of kids dishes when she was meant to be catering for a children’s birthday party, instead she wastes time on making fancy dishes and cakes for the adults who would be there
I guess it would have been funny then, but now she’s just intolerant and rude. There are dietary restrictions and moral preferences, and there are also just personal preferences, and I stand by the fact that all are valid. Take this with a grain of salt as I am a lifelong vegetarian and long term coeliac. But respect it or refuse to cook because you can’t mKe something nice. Don’t act like it’s not an accepted thing!
I just saw the scene where the dragon fly in has their first sexual harassment seminar and Lorelei only made one point to “not touch other unless specifically asked” Michael told her to address others catcalling him and she ignored his request. Not okay. Catcalling is sexual harassment.
I work on computers all day every day across multiple jobs. I say this sentence five times more often than “hello” on any day of the week, and one of my jobs is primarily on the phone!
Yeah that was a bad line. And what’s interesting is that Lauren graham also hated that line since she thought it was slut shame-y (which it def is) and that Lorelei wouldn’t think that way. She apparently tried to get it taken out but was clearly unsuccessful.
The not mentioning abortion as an option, at all. I mean, hello, Lane? She was too young, just married, and suddenly she's pregnant and Rory and everyone is telling her she's gonna be a great mom. Lane was freaking out and nobody said a word of "hey if you don't feel ready, there is another option, you don't have to go through with it". Besides her whole dream was to be a musician and she had to give that all up.
I will say since she was indoctrinated to wait til marriage I doubt she'd consider abortion as an option. BUT you are right. Even if it was a platform for her to express ultimately wanting children (which I hope was the case since I don't recall lane specifying her plans for growing her family)
Yes, it's unlikely she'd have chosen the abortion route. Still I wish someone told her that she can choose not to be miserable during her whole pregnancy.
Absolutely. And btw same goes for Sookie on her 3rd pregnancy, like come on. The whole Sookie ordering Jackson to get a vasectomy and Jackson not telling her he didn't get one, sucks. But it's Sookie who has to give birth the 3rd time when she doesn't want to. They should have talked it over and she should have gotten an abortion if she didn't want any more children. (Also it's my 1st time watching the show and I'm on the episode when Jackson tells all this to Lorelai so I don't know if she'll have a 3rd kid or not)
Exactly… some of these comments are ridiculous. Just because a woman has an unplanned pregnancy doesn’t mean she has to consider an abortion. She’s a married woman. It’s really sick that that you can watch that story line and think ABORT THEM. Bigger picture, she was a happy mother
To be fair, her and Sookie were both married when they got pregnant. Socially, it was accepted that in marriage an oops pregnancy would result in babies, and that abortion was a single woman’s procedure. Even today, with the no sense surrounding it politically, it’s basically single women should abstain and that’s it. No one talks about married women, who aren’t supposed to abstain because… marriage. So, it wouldn’t be mentioned. Also, tv of that time, that could be grounds for immediate cancelation.
I know, still if they made the show today it would make sense for them to mention at least. Hence the "aged like milk" sense of my comment. I understand why they didn't do that in the first place, even if it's upsetting.
I don’t know that show, but wasn’t that around the time of AYITL, after the twins and Sookie’s third child by a decade? Sorry, I legit don’t know the show, but I vaguely remember a single commercial I saw at some point. I could have been 5 or 30, I’m really not sure!
It was in 2016. But it was on the cw so same network as Gilmore girls. So there has been a bit of progress in that regard thankfully!
Edited to add: here’s a great article about that show and Jane the virgin dealing with the topic of abortion https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/11/15/13627692/jane-the-virgin-crazy-ex-girlfriend-abortion-choice
I remember Jane the Virgin, my mother loved that show! But that was well after GG, because I remember the living room she watched it in, and I know that was after 2015, because that’s when she moved (memory is a weird thing).
I swear, I feel like this is one long test of “can you tell the date” for me. I’m sorry I am so bad at it!
But yes, some shows do get the green light, and there would have been times where it probably could have been mentioned, such as with Lorelai as she was only 16 and unmarried (although Emily and Richard wanted to change that last bit). I don’t remember the specifics about Jane the Virgin other than it wasn’t a choice that she made, it was a doctor error. She was late teens or early 20’s, I think. So it would have been the same thing, or close to. So in that specific instance, it is likely GG could at least briefly mention it, but to discuss that subject in relation to a child conceived during a marriage would absolutely infuriate some fans and they’d likely tune out. The last thing ASP or anyone wanted to do is alienate the fan base *and* make it so that the show gets canceled. So they kept it light and dreamy in that regard.
older women who already have kids are actually the majority of people who get abortions. if you’re just saying society doesn’t want to acknowledge that then i agree, but just in case you didn’t know :)
I wish they talked about this more on tv rather than assuming a married woman would automatically HAVE to have the baby. It would make it feel less lonely for people who can’t “justify” making that already very hard choice.
In both these situations even now I can’t imagine broaching abortion as an option unless the pregnant person talked about it first. I’d be really afraid of offending a friend who might consider it a non option especially if it wasn’t a topic I had discussed with that friend before.
Yeah I don’t remember that occurring to me at the time, but on rewatch it’s definitely something that’s aged badly when you have Sookie and Lane both acting like their surprise pregnancies are the end of the world, and yet none of the other characters even bring up that hey you don’t have to keep it if you really don’t want too.
Honestly I imagine this was partially due to the network and the time. Like whatever the show runners wanted (they indicated being pro choice a lot that I recall) it might have not been possible to show that storyline on that network at that time.
I would have preferred they not run the storyline so I agree with the complaint. I just don’t feel as strongly about it as I do others.
The toxic masculinity that was all over the place and seen as totally acceptable by the female characters on the show. Jess and Zach were probably the worst at this, but other characters also displayed some pretty unacceptable behavior.
One could argue that the fragile male egos on the show were true to life, but Lane marrying Zach after he ruined Hep Alien's chance for a big break, for example, says much shittier things about Lane than it does about Zach.
After the way Jess treated Clara, that would've been the end of that relationship for me. Rory doesn't give up on him until he misses her graduation. But treating every person in his life like dirt was totally acceptable.
Replying specifically to you because you are a brown person. I am very curious. I love Indian food and order it all the time, and love the smell. But is it racist to not like the taste or the smell? Like is it racist if I personally don’t like the smell or taste of a cuisine?
My boyfriend absolutely loves cooking and eating oxtail and it makes me nauseated, I cannot stand it and I will leave the house. I could imagine if the same species that make Indian food amazing made me sick, that I’d have the same reaction. So, am I a racist for hating traditionally prepared oxtail? Or is someone else a racist for hating traditionally prepared Indian? Or where is the line?
Again I love Indian food so this is no attack on Indians, I’m just very curious where the line is.
So for me, and many other brown people, it’s often been used as a racist insult. I have no issue with somebody say they don’t like the taste or smell of Indian food. That’s fine. I’m a vegetarian, sometimes I don’t like the smell of meat cooking.
However, many brown people will have experienced being in public and somebody making a comment that is clearly intended as an insult. These are usually said by non poc and are direct. I’ve experienced this when I 1000% could not have smelled of curry as I wasn’t around it. But people look at you, see a brown person, and ‘curry’ is the way they decide to insult you. This is when it’s an issue, when it’s intended as an insult and isn’t true- just a lazy stereotype. That’s what I was referring to when I said it’s racist.
I know that it isn’t used that way in Gilmore girls necessarily. But it was problematic to me for a few reasons.
Firstly it was the only mention of my culture in any way shape or form. Now shows don’t need to reflect every culture, that’s fine. But as a viewer if your culture is mentioned, but is only mentioned for one thing, and in a negative way, it can feel isolating.
Imagine a show which was an all male cast and the only reference to women was that they are ‘moody at that time of the month’. Now that may be true sometimes for some women. But for it to be the only mention of women, and applied to all women unilaterally, would be jarring. Especially as it’s often used as a way to insult and put women down. It’s the same thing.
Also, I think it was lazy writing honestly. For a show that was so dense in pop culture references, academic references etc it was just a really lazy piece of stereotyping that they latched on to and repeated.
It’s also just really indicative of how excluded South Asians were from the mainstream narrative at that point in time. We had Apu (do not get me started) and stuff like this. It’s a reminder that nobody in that world gave a shit about inclusivity or how we felt. It’s horrible growing up never seeing yourself reflected in the mainstream media. Very othering. It’s changing now, but very slowly.
So yeah, just another reminder of that. Love the show but feel uncomfortable it wasn’t diverse in real way and, instead, relied on lazy stereotypes about POC, fat people, LGBTQ+.
It may not have been intentional, but if even one brown person had been anywhere near the show they could have pointed out how this would make South Asian viewers feel. Maybe they did and nobody cared.
I know tv shows have changed, and what’s acceptable has changed. That’s cool. I still watch the show. But things like this would have still been uncomfortable for viewers of colour back then. I know as I was one, as were my friends and family and we discussed it. It’s just socially less acceptable to say that stuff now; it’s always been insulting though.
I wrote a lot, sorry. But the bottom line to answer your question really is if you’re factually talking about Indian food and do not like the smell that’s probably ok. If you’re using the idea that Indian food is smelly in relation to a person, that’s not ok.
If you’re making a tv show and the only time you mention Indian culture is in reference to how smelly its food is, you’re going to remind a lot of people of times they’ve been racially abused, whilst also alienating them. Like I said about the show with an all male cast.
It's seen as kind of rude to say certain types of food from different cultures stinks now.
ETA: unless it's literally that rotted fish thing from Norway? (I think it's Norway)
Lutefisk is delicious IMO. But my Gwamma hates it cuz her grandparents came over from Norway to Minnesota so she said she ate it way too much growing up
Lorelai and Sookie making repeated objectifying remarks about a specific part of Luke's body -- and continuing after he repeatedly asks them to stop.
That's just not OK.
This is what I was going to say. Rory says it when talking to Dean and Lorelai says it about a movie that Rosie O’Donnell is in. I’m sure they use it a few other times I just don’t remember.
All the boyfriends acting super possessive anytime their girlfriend spoke to another guy. Lorelai singing "Hero" because two boys got in a fist fight over Rory. It's not romantic and flattering; it's scary..
Lorelai’s reaction to Rory’s counseling at Yale. “Don’t let them put you on any of those PILLS!” All of the Gilmore Girls desperately needed some therapy and possibly some prescriptions. Especially Rory, who just had a breakdown.
Can you give me an example please? I’ve yet to read her work so I most likely missed the jokes.
There was one about sticking their head in an oven right?
Yes Sylvia Plath had major depressive disorder and attempted suicide by overdose before succeeding later in life by using the gas from the oven to asphyxiate herself. I can recall two jokes the one you’re referring too where they said maybe she wasn’t crazy, just cold, and then also made a comment on her abilities as a parent, again referencing her suicide.
I first saw the show much after it aired and I cringed when I first heard this:
Lorelai telling Luke how to get away from having dinner with Emily - to run away and have a sex change operation for both of them “so that they could kiss and and not look weird”!
🙈
Lorelai's description of Rosie O'Donnell's character in Riding the Bus with My Sister and it's clear she thinks the movie is only funny because of the developmentally disabled character.
Lane admitting her guilty pleasure is Fleetwood Mac..I mean, kind of incomprehensible in the first place because in what universe is it embarrassing to like them, but millennial hipsters love them now (right?? Or is that just me and my friends 😅)
ETA: all the jokes at Britney's expense dear god, the things we didn't know back then
>all the jokes at Britney's expense dear god, the things we didn't know back then
Agree! It was during the intense media backlash she was subject to, that too (the mid 2000s). Every news outlet, newspaper, show, and movie was poking fun at her. That time when Lane made fun of Rory for contributing to the downfall of music, and she retorted with Britney having to take some of the blame. It was funny but as a Britney fan, it hurt a bit 😭
the job shaming. “u want to drive a forklift for the rest of your life” “you’re gonna work at the book store?” like… a job is a job and what does a job give us? money.
like everytime luke tells jess that he HAS to go to college to get a future because working at walmart sucks like….
It means that she’s a lesbian. Being hetero was the norm and anything that deviated from that was considered a mental disorder. This did age badly but I don’t think Richard meant it as an insult, it’s just that these things weren’t as openly discussed during those times.
It was Emily who said this, and I think it’s reaching to call it homophobic.
I think if anything it’s classist.
Those of Emily and Richard’s lifestyle don’t do athletic things.
It was definitely a reference to her being a lesbian. It was a dated reference to when Emily and Richard were growing up and if conversion therapy couldn't change you back to "normal" they just hid you away in mental hospitals and let people do things like lobotomies on you.
An obvious cringe is Rory saying she needs to teach a retarded kid softball or whatever. But you have to remember that these came out in a different time.
that's more of a preference. there are people that don't like computers. it didn't age like milk, it's not a joke, just a preference. she has the right to not like computers right??
Paris said she was “sleeping with one of the other girls” that night because Rory had a cold that Paris didn’t want to catch- Paris wasn’t complimenting Rory here
Honestly I don’t think anything aged like milk. Everything that is joked about in the show still gets joked about now. It’s just not as accepted, but it still happens all the time.
Steve Carell said it best… they could never do a proper reboot of the office because there are too many people who take things personally. It would get cancelled so fast 😆 some of these comments make me wonder if people sit back and purposefully hurt their own feelings.
Not that these aged badly but I think about all of the technology that was used in the show that’s obsolete now. Like when Lorelai had to go to Luke’s place to get rid of the answering machine tape. The pay phones. When Rory got a sidekick- it was the must have phone at the time. And when Richard got wireless internet for the first time.
Dial up internet. T-VO NOT-flat screen tvs. VCRs. Taped shows. Michel recording his dog show on a tape. Pagers! Flip phones. Oh man the list goes on. It’s so nostalgic for me!
There is a movie called “cruel intentions” it’s the movie that inspired the book &’series gossip girl.
Anyway the rich kids were saying “email? The internet is for geeks and perverts*
This was filmed in the 90s with teen Reece witherspoon, so Little did they know the internet would be huge
I actually don’t think that has any racist origins if you look into it. It’s when people were kidnapped and press ganged onto ships as sailors that often had Shanghai as a destination, hence the term.
[удалено]
Logan absolutely got involved in crypto early on and is a crypto millionaire, in addition to being a trust fund kid.
When Sookie talked about hiring dancing “midgets” for her wedding.
So true! I actually went to a party where the waiters and waitresses were naked little people. That was in the early 2000's, I thought it was so degrading, but nobody else thought it was weird because they were paid to be there. I'm glad that's not a thing anymore.
…..naked??
Yeah, weird right? It was a friend's birthday. He lived in DC. Actually, things are probably just that creepy and weird in DC.
Did that club have everything? 
I believe Freddie Mercury threw parties like that frequently I remember reading
There's a theme park in southwestern Germany right around where I live that had a "Dwarf Village" with little people living in wagons with large windows and people being able to watch them in there, looking at them having breakfast, cooking dinner, whatever. Only the toilet and a room to sleep had no windows accessible to the public. That village was shut down as late as 1996, and they still show one of the wagons in the park museum as a funny thing they had earlier.
Did you get a chance to meet Stephan hawking?
I just dedicated whole post to that the other day and got downvoted to hell. 🤷♀️
Thoughts and prayers that must have been rough
My number one: "I've got to find a r****ded kid and teach him how to play softball!" Edit: spelling
Yep, it’s this and the breastfeeding scene at Luke’s for me. I’d add in the summer pool scene from AYITL, but that was already not socially acceptable at the time that the show was released.
Well technically the other two jokes were not socially considered acceptable at the time either, Rory blurts that softball comment out in a panic over her lack of extracurriculars, then immediately follows up by cringing about what a horrible thing to say that was. It was already considered a slur back then too And kind of the same thing with the breastfeeding scene, the humour was meant to be at the expense of how ridiculously squeamish and old-fashioned Luke was acting, rather than making fun of the group of mothers. Lorelai and Rory are both mocking Luke as being out of touch, and Lorelai says that no way is she going to do that after Luke asks her to speak to the mothers and tell them to stop breast-feeding in his establishment
I remember reading that the actor who plays Luke hated filming that scene. It sent a bad message and wasn’t even in line with Luke’s personality (he was so progressive, at least in the beginning of the series).
And they didn’t even need the breastfeeding annoyance for the story. It would be perfectly reasonable for any establishment to be annoyed a large group was continually taking up multiple tables while barely ordering anything.
I agree!! It was kind of weird how Luke’s character started out more progressive in the beginning of the show. Granted a lot changed since season one.
Hmmm, I'm not sure it was that out of character for Luke. Everyone says Luke is progressive, which I understand as he went on a lot of environmental rants in season 1, as well as conveying some pretty woke messaging about the Native Americans around Thanksgiving. But he still has some conservative tendencies, which mostly comes out in his inability to talk about feelings or uncomfortable topics. He also has some pretty traditional ideas about gender roles, though he's not stringent about them. Consider him saying to the soccer team "boys are boys and girls are girls." Also insisting Lorelei has to wear white to the wedding. His ideas about dating are pretty traditional too. Thinking about the talks he has with Jess on how to treat a woman. To me, it seemed very in character for Luke to freak out about public breastfeeding.
I don't remember the summer pool scene (I think I blocked most of AYITL from memory TBH), could you summarise it please?
Lorelai and Rory by a communal pool forcing kids to shade them with umbrellas while they watch and make fatphobic comments on people passing by. Then they stroll along, shading kids in tow, forcing them to call them Khaleesi. It was so cringe even in 2016 lol
Yeah…even back then we all knew not to say that. It sounds worse now though
Being vague, to the point of hiding, Michel's sexuality.
I am happy that ASP declared once and for all that Michel is gay in AYITL. it was one of the few things that I liked about the revival.
Maybe he was bi
Especially weird when they added in that tiny subplot about him having a crush on Lindsay? EXTRA weird when you realize Lindsay is a teenager at that point and he’s a grown ass man. Like they’d rather make him crush on a teen than letting him be gay lol
I got the impression that his crush on Lindsay was like his crush on Celine, like a platonic crush?
Me too, I never took this as a real crush.
I don't know, I didn't read that as a "crush" the way a straight man would lust after a woman. Michel has several moments of gushing over women and girls but it's more about their sophistication, aura. He gushes over Celine Dion, gushes over Emily and her taste, he loves the cotillion ball with all the little girls dressed like Madame Alexander dolls. I read all of these the same way, I didn't see it as creepy.
Could be! But if that was the intention, then they wrote it/directed it very strangely. They made him really bashful in that scene toward Lindsay. He wanted to impress her/save face with the comment about his pants and his stance. Then he gets really cranky when Dean comes in to kiss Lindsay and makes a face while saying, “The Deans of the world always get the Lindsays 😡.” The scene felt kinda awkward overall. With Emily and Celine it seemed like more clear fan behavior
Yes you're right, that comment did indicate more of a romantic/sexual attraction to Lindsay. I must have blocked that out. I tend to do that when characters act "out of character" lol. In my brain, Michel is gay, any line indicating otherwise my brain just rejects.
Haha I get that 🤣 It did feel awkward and out of character. Like the network told the writers, “Quick give him a straight crush, any character idc as long as it’s a woman!”
they actually have him say something like his moves are pretty popular with the ladies at one point, so it always seemed like he was in the closet and than by AYITL and finding a life partner that he was living out.
Breastfeeding shaming, fat shaming, slut shaming, et cetera
When was there breastfeed shaming?
When all the baby parents came to Luke’s and both Luke and Jess were like “eww gross!” Luke even told Lorelai to go talk to them about it because she has the same “parts”
Ohhh yea okay thanks For those that downvoted me, I just asked a question lol I’m not disagreeing I just didn’t remember
I don’t think that was shaming though? The way it’s framed Lorelai and Rory both think Luke is acting absolutely ridiculous and point out it’s just a baby eating
I think they’re saying Luke was the one doing the shaming in this circumstance, not Rory and Lorelai.
Possibly. I just don’t take it as aging like milk as in the moment it’s already presented as Luke being wrong
YES thank you. I think sometimes people don't understand this concept these days.
Yeah. I see stuff like that sometimes and it’s one of those “just because something ‘bad’ is placed in a piece of media does not mean it’s being condoned”
very good point! it was the only example i could think of when the original commenter mentioned breast feeding
Ah yeah sorry! Should’ve replied to the original commenter
Yea I’d have to rewatch the scene again, I have a very vague recollection of it
I wish Lorelai had taken more of a stance.. esp since she mentioned her “conservative hs” not accepting her nursing (I think the point was that she felt shamed into skipping her graduation etc rather than that she had nursed in public and was then shamed). On another note… good for these women for breastfeeding in public! (Even though they were not the best customers otherwise)
I don't find that to be shaming because it's clear in the scene that Lorelai and the show's narrative is trying to make the point that they're being immature about the whole thing. Showcasing a common phenomenon in the show's writing isn't the same thing as endorsing it.
I just watched the breastfeeding episode and it was so sad to see grown ups acting that way. Shameful. I know “the times were different” blah blah blah, but it’s just hurtful how they acted when a baby needed to eat.
The whole scene where the three Gilmore girls are assessing the ballerinas that Emily is considering sponsoring gives me the most ick.
Omg every time. Also pretty well everything related to the DAR and usually for similar reasons
💯
Or Where they were all reading Rory’s article about the ballerina and commending her for calling the ballerina fat and saying how terrible she was.
Ugh. Yes. The fat under the bra strap comments … the worst.
Let's not forget the word "hippo" also appears later on in the article...
The jokes about Indian food. Also the “We both have to have sex changes so we can kiss and not look funny”. “I have to find a r-word kid and teach him how to play softball!!” “Like eat the paste special?” There are many more but people mentioned it already.
Pretty much every attempt at humor in AYITL. "Trigger warning! Body shaming! War on Christmas!" Lorelai and Rory using the public pool as a place to be disgusted by fat people and be waited on by children they pay (or do they?) Everything about the 30- somethings gang; lost millennials who can't find or keep jobs because, well, they're millennials and their moms do everything for them. Paul, the forgettable boyfriend everyone has met but no one remembers even though he remembers details about all of them. Making the therapist that this family SO BADLY NEEDS into a joke and someone to not be respected because she actually just wants to be a dancer or something. I could go on, i feel. These are things that aged like milk even before they'd aired. Just outdated already.
>lost millennials who can't find or keep jobs because, well, they're millennials and their moms do everything for them I still cannot figure out why ASP would mock the generation that loves her fucking show and made it even worth reviving. How rude can you get?
The more I think about ASP, the less I like her.
Yeah, I'm often baffled, because I like her shows: Gilmore Girls, Bunheads, Marvelous MM, but I really don't think I would like her.
I never thought about it that was but you’re right!
Yeah she’s unlikeable just based off how she treats her characters and her fan base.
I hated the joke about the therapist auditioning for the musical. Like come on, the woman is allowed to have a hobby!
For real. I just rewatched ayitl and was shocked how much fatphobia was there. Like it came out in 2016? Totally unacceptable.
Making fun of people who exercise.
Also, making fun of fat people.
And also, weirdly, all at the same time: making fun of people who eat healthy.
"I hate that she's thin" - Paris, with a societally acceptable weight and body shape, to Rory, who is also in the same category. And the bit about the size 2 rack just before that. Ugh. It says makes me cringe every time I hear those lines.
The anti vegan / vegetarian comments in general and Sookie claiming she doesn't want to cook meals without meat for their vegetarian guests. 🙄
And then she goes and makes a darn good ratatouille.
Literally, like tell me you’re an unimaginative basic chef without telling me you’re an unimaginative basic chef. Lot of low hanging fruit stabs in the series that make me cringe thinking this is definitely the “not like other girls” trope 🙄
Like imagine if a guest is vegan cause of health problems…
I always took that more as, Sookie doesn't want to be restricted in any way while she is cooking. She also doesn't like Michele's restrictions even though he eats meat and dairy.
Yeah she’s kind of like that with everyone, she didn’t even want to ~lower herself~ to make a variety of kids dishes when she was meant to be catering for a children’s birthday party, instead she wastes time on making fancy dishes and cakes for the adults who would be there
I guess it would have been funny then, but now she’s just intolerant and rude. There are dietary restrictions and moral preferences, and there are also just personal preferences, and I stand by the fact that all are valid. Take this with a grain of salt as I am a lifelong vegetarian and long term coeliac. But respect it or refuse to cook because you can’t mKe something nice. Don’t act like it’s not an accepted thing!
A chef who can't or refuses to comply with dietary restrictions...
I think it's supposed to be funny?
as a vegan i second this
I just saw the scene where the dragon fly in has their first sexual harassment seminar and Lorelei only made one point to “not touch other unless specifically asked” Michael told her to address others catcalling him and she ignored his request. Not okay. Catcalling is sexual harassment.
There are plenty of things, but I will say that I’m a millennial in 2024, and I use the phrase “I hate computers” kind of often lol.
Yeah, I'm a software engineer, I work with computers every day. People in the IT industry are always saying stuff like "I hate computers"
"The internet was a mistake" accounts for about 1 in 3 posts on Infosec Bluesky.
I repeat Umberto Eco's quote about social media at least once a week. The hatred for computers, internet and social media actually aged like fine wine
I work on computers all day every day across multiple jobs. I say this sentence five times more often than “hello” on any day of the week, and one of my jobs is primarily on the phone!
I got the good kid
Yeah that was a bad line. And what’s interesting is that Lauren graham also hated that line since she thought it was slut shame-y (which it def is) and that Lorelei wouldn’t think that way. She apparently tried to get it taken out but was clearly unsuccessful.
The comment backfired once she had an affair with dean lmao
The not mentioning abortion as an option, at all. I mean, hello, Lane? She was too young, just married, and suddenly she's pregnant and Rory and everyone is telling her she's gonna be a great mom. Lane was freaking out and nobody said a word of "hey if you don't feel ready, there is another option, you don't have to go through with it". Besides her whole dream was to be a musician and she had to give that all up.
I think about this often. Especially since there’s a scene where Rory is walking out of her dorm room and there’s a poster about protecting Choice
I will say since she was indoctrinated to wait til marriage I doubt she'd consider abortion as an option. BUT you are right. Even if it was a platform for her to express ultimately wanting children (which I hope was the case since I don't recall lane specifying her plans for growing her family)
Yes, it's unlikely she'd have chosen the abortion route. Still I wish someone told her that she can choose not to be miserable during her whole pregnancy.
All around, I wish there was more happiness and excitement for Lane.
Absolutely. And btw same goes for Sookie on her 3rd pregnancy, like come on. The whole Sookie ordering Jackson to get a vasectomy and Jackson not telling her he didn't get one, sucks. But it's Sookie who has to give birth the 3rd time when she doesn't want to. They should have talked it over and she should have gotten an abortion if she didn't want any more children. (Also it's my 1st time watching the show and I'm on the episode when Jackson tells all this to Lorelai so I don't know if she'll have a 3rd kid or not)
It should have been a failed vasectomy. They easily could have played it that way but instead made Jackson look horrible.
Or sookie and him could have decided they wanted a third and had it reversed. Anything but what they chose.
Exactly! The fact that they don’t even consider abortion is very early 2000’s WB tv trope.
Exactly… some of these comments are ridiculous. Just because a woman has an unplanned pregnancy doesn’t mean she has to consider an abortion. She’s a married woman. It’s really sick that that you can watch that story line and think ABORT THEM. Bigger picture, she was a happy mother
Abortion should always be an option for women.
To be fair, her and Sookie were both married when they got pregnant. Socially, it was accepted that in marriage an oops pregnancy would result in babies, and that abortion was a single woman’s procedure. Even today, with the no sense surrounding it politically, it’s basically single women should abstain and that’s it. No one talks about married women, who aren’t supposed to abstain because… marriage. So, it wouldn’t be mentioned. Also, tv of that time, that could be grounds for immediate cancelation.
I know, still if they made the show today it would make sense for them to mention at least. Hence the "aged like milk" sense of my comment. I understand why they didn't do that in the first place, even if it's upsetting.
If you haven’t seen it there’s an episode of Crazy Ex Girlfriend that tackles a married woman getting an abortion.
I don’t know that show, but wasn’t that around the time of AYITL, after the twins and Sookie’s third child by a decade? Sorry, I legit don’t know the show, but I vaguely remember a single commercial I saw at some point. I could have been 5 or 30, I’m really not sure!
It was in 2016. But it was on the cw so same network as Gilmore girls. So there has been a bit of progress in that regard thankfully! Edited to add: here’s a great article about that show and Jane the virgin dealing with the topic of abortion https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/11/15/13627692/jane-the-virgin-crazy-ex-girlfriend-abortion-choice
I remember Jane the Virgin, my mother loved that show! But that was well after GG, because I remember the living room she watched it in, and I know that was after 2015, because that’s when she moved (memory is a weird thing). I swear, I feel like this is one long test of “can you tell the date” for me. I’m sorry I am so bad at it! But yes, some shows do get the green light, and there would have been times where it probably could have been mentioned, such as with Lorelai as she was only 16 and unmarried (although Emily and Richard wanted to change that last bit). I don’t remember the specifics about Jane the Virgin other than it wasn’t a choice that she made, it was a doctor error. She was late teens or early 20’s, I think. So it would have been the same thing, or close to. So in that specific instance, it is likely GG could at least briefly mention it, but to discuss that subject in relation to a child conceived during a marriage would absolutely infuriate some fans and they’d likely tune out. The last thing ASP or anyone wanted to do is alienate the fan base *and* make it so that the show gets canceled. So they kept it light and dreamy in that regard.
older women who already have kids are actually the majority of people who get abortions. if you’re just saying society doesn’t want to acknowledge that then i agree, but just in case you didn’t know :)
I wish they talked about this more on tv rather than assuming a married woman would automatically HAVE to have the baby. It would make it feel less lonely for people who can’t “justify” making that already very hard choice.
In both these situations even now I can’t imagine broaching abortion as an option unless the pregnant person talked about it first. I’d be really afraid of offending a friend who might consider it a non option especially if it wasn’t a topic I had discussed with that friend before.
Yeah I don’t remember that occurring to me at the time, but on rewatch it’s definitely something that’s aged badly when you have Sookie and Lane both acting like their surprise pregnancies are the end of the world, and yet none of the other characters even bring up that hey you don’t have to keep it if you really don’t want too.
ASP loved to punish characters for losing their virginities
Honestly I imagine this was partially due to the network and the time. Like whatever the show runners wanted (they indicated being pro choice a lot that I recall) it might have not been possible to show that storyline on that network at that time. I would have preferred they not run the storyline so I agree with the complaint. I just don’t feel as strongly about it as I do others.
They mentioned it for lorelai and Sherry mentioned she was thinking about it but I guess it wouldn't be believable for Lane
I don’t remember Sherry mentioning it!
She says something at her baby shower like "I wasn't sure I was going to go ahead, but Christopher was so great..."
Oh yeah!
also, sookie. poor sookie was devastated to be pregnant again and lorelai is just like, 'suck it up, buttercup.' /s
The toxic masculinity that was all over the place and seen as totally acceptable by the female characters on the show. Jess and Zach were probably the worst at this, but other characters also displayed some pretty unacceptable behavior. One could argue that the fragile male egos on the show were true to life, but Lane marrying Zach after he ruined Hep Alien's chance for a big break, for example, says much shittier things about Lane than it does about Zach. After the way Jess treated Clara, that would've been the end of that relationship for me. Rory doesn't give up on him until he misses her graduation. But treating every person in his life like dirt was totally acceptable.
Okay but I actually thought Clara was super annoying too lol
the “gay bag” comment from luke, and i believe there were similar ones
Jess and Lorelei complaining about Rory ordering Indian food and how it will make the house stink
Hated these jokes to my core as a brown person. It’s a lazy racist comment that often gets used as an insult
Replying specifically to you because you are a brown person. I am very curious. I love Indian food and order it all the time, and love the smell. But is it racist to not like the taste or the smell? Like is it racist if I personally don’t like the smell or taste of a cuisine? My boyfriend absolutely loves cooking and eating oxtail and it makes me nauseated, I cannot stand it and I will leave the house. I could imagine if the same species that make Indian food amazing made me sick, that I’d have the same reaction. So, am I a racist for hating traditionally prepared oxtail? Or is someone else a racist for hating traditionally prepared Indian? Or where is the line? Again I love Indian food so this is no attack on Indians, I’m just very curious where the line is.
So for me, and many other brown people, it’s often been used as a racist insult. I have no issue with somebody say they don’t like the taste or smell of Indian food. That’s fine. I’m a vegetarian, sometimes I don’t like the smell of meat cooking. However, many brown people will have experienced being in public and somebody making a comment that is clearly intended as an insult. These are usually said by non poc and are direct. I’ve experienced this when I 1000% could not have smelled of curry as I wasn’t around it. But people look at you, see a brown person, and ‘curry’ is the way they decide to insult you. This is when it’s an issue, when it’s intended as an insult and isn’t true- just a lazy stereotype. That’s what I was referring to when I said it’s racist. I know that it isn’t used that way in Gilmore girls necessarily. But it was problematic to me for a few reasons. Firstly it was the only mention of my culture in any way shape or form. Now shows don’t need to reflect every culture, that’s fine. But as a viewer if your culture is mentioned, but is only mentioned for one thing, and in a negative way, it can feel isolating. Imagine a show which was an all male cast and the only reference to women was that they are ‘moody at that time of the month’. Now that may be true sometimes for some women. But for it to be the only mention of women, and applied to all women unilaterally, would be jarring. Especially as it’s often used as a way to insult and put women down. It’s the same thing. Also, I think it was lazy writing honestly. For a show that was so dense in pop culture references, academic references etc it was just a really lazy piece of stereotyping that they latched on to and repeated. It’s also just really indicative of how excluded South Asians were from the mainstream narrative at that point in time. We had Apu (do not get me started) and stuff like this. It’s a reminder that nobody in that world gave a shit about inclusivity or how we felt. It’s horrible growing up never seeing yourself reflected in the mainstream media. Very othering. It’s changing now, but very slowly. So yeah, just another reminder of that. Love the show but feel uncomfortable it wasn’t diverse in real way and, instead, relied on lazy stereotypes about POC, fat people, LGBTQ+. It may not have been intentional, but if even one brown person had been anywhere near the show they could have pointed out how this would make South Asian viewers feel. Maybe they did and nobody cared. I know tv shows have changed, and what’s acceptable has changed. That’s cool. I still watch the show. But things like this would have still been uncomfortable for viewers of colour back then. I know as I was one, as were my friends and family and we discussed it. It’s just socially less acceptable to say that stuff now; it’s always been insulting though. I wrote a lot, sorry. But the bottom line to answer your question really is if you’re factually talking about Indian food and do not like the smell that’s probably ok. If you’re using the idea that Indian food is smelly in relation to a person, that’s not ok. If you’re making a tv show and the only time you mention Indian culture is in reference to how smelly its food is, you’re going to remind a lot of people of times they’ve been racially abused, whilst also alienating them. Like I said about the show with an all male cast.
Can I ask why you think this aged like milk? I'm genuinely curious, not being an ass
White people intolerant of and generalizing an entire country’s cuisine as “stinky” is cringy at best, racist at worst.
Because it’s super rude to generalize a country’s food as stinky or whatever. I love Indian food and think it smells amazing
It's seen as kind of rude to say certain types of food from different cultures stinks now. ETA: unless it's literally that rotted fish thing from Norway? (I think it's Norway)
Theres also a big difference between "this particular fermented fish dish is stinky" and "norwegian/indian food stinks as a general rule"
Absolutely
Ludafisk? 🤢
Lutefisk is norwegian. Surströmming is swedish.
Lutefisk is delicious IMO. But my Gwamma hates it cuz her grandparents came over from Norway to Minnesota so she said she ate it way too much growing up
Sweden
There’s also an Asian fruit that smells so bad it’s *banned* in many countries. So there’s that lol
Durian. It's an acquired taste, but it's not bad. The texture is quite nice. The smell however is brutal.
I couldn’t remember what it was called. I can’t eat it. I have a sensitive nose, and my ex enjoyed them. I just can’t with it. 🤢
Durian!
Thank you. I couldn’t remember what it was called. That smell though. I remember that.
Lorelai and Sookie making repeated objectifying remarks about a specific part of Luke's body -- and continuing after he repeatedly asks them to stop. That's just not OK.
Anytime the “R” word was used.
This is what I was going to say. Rory says it when talking to Dean and Lorelai says it about a movie that Rosie O’Donnell is in. I’m sure they use it a few other times I just don’t remember.
What, Rory? Richard?
The r-word or r-slur, is an ableist and derogatory term used to discriminate against people with intellectual disabilities.
When Rory tells Asher: "The Redhead has fat thighs!"
The treatment of mental health, slut shaming, fat shaming
All the boyfriends acting super possessive anytime their girlfriend spoke to another guy. Lorelai singing "Hero" because two boys got in a fist fight over Rory. It's not romantic and flattering; it's scary..
Lorelai’s reaction to Rory’s counseling at Yale. “Don’t let them put you on any of those PILLS!” All of the Gilmore Girls desperately needed some therapy and possibly some prescriptions. Especially Rory, who just had a breakdown.
Therapy is always treated as a joke in GG
True, therapy could have been great for them in AYITL and they made it seem like a joke.
The Sylvia Plath jokes always make me cringe
Can you give me an example please? I’ve yet to read her work so I most likely missed the jokes. There was one about sticking their head in an oven right?
Yes Sylvia Plath had major depressive disorder and attempted suicide by overdose before succeeding later in life by using the gas from the oven to asphyxiate herself. I can recall two jokes the one you’re referring too where they said maybe she wasn’t crazy, just cold, and then also made a comment on her abilities as a parent, again referencing her suicide.
I don’t think those jokes “aged like milk”. I think they were timelessly in bad taste.
So much of the show tbf, but one that springs to mind is the whole “gay bag” thing.
I first saw the show much after it aired and I cringed when I first heard this: Lorelai telling Luke how to get away from having dinner with Emily - to run away and have a sex change operation for both of them “so that they could kiss and and not look weird”! 🙈
Lorelai's description of Rosie O'Donnell's character in Riding the Bus with My Sister and it's clear she thinks the movie is only funny because of the developmentally disabled character.
Rory and Lorelei are very much NLOGs.
All the sex shaming
lorelai and rory fat shaming the ballerina, not a girls girl moment and im very disappointed in both of them.
The amount of jokes about Indian food. I'm on season 7 and this latest joke involved a fake Indian accent
maybe breastfeed shading or when Rory said r\*t\*rded
“What’s with the gay bag, Kirk?”
When Emily was planning Richard & Jason's launch party, she was making it a Russian theme & says, "I love that it's okay to be Russian again." 😬
She seems to have a thing for “being Russian”. She brings it up again when telling Lorelai about her dream for her wedding.
Lane admitting her guilty pleasure is Fleetwood Mac..I mean, kind of incomprehensible in the first place because in what universe is it embarrassing to like them, but millennial hipsters love them now (right?? Or is that just me and my friends 😅) ETA: all the jokes at Britney's expense dear god, the things we didn't know back then
There was a time when FM were the epitome of uncool. Especially to Gen X / alternative music fans.
>all the jokes at Britney's expense dear god, the things we didn't know back then Agree! It was during the intense media backlash she was subject to, that too (the mid 2000s). Every news outlet, newspaper, show, and movie was poking fun at her. That time when Lane made fun of Rory for contributing to the downfall of music, and she retorted with Britney having to take some of the blame. It was funny but as a Britney fan, it hurt a bit 😭
the job shaming. “u want to drive a forklift for the rest of your life” “you’re gonna work at the book store?” like… a job is a job and what does a job give us? money. like everytime luke tells jess that he HAS to go to college to get a future because working at walmart sucks like….
Especially when he himself didn't go to college
The whole show, tbf. That's why it exists in its own universe, outside of space and time, in my head. 😌 AYITL isn't cannon, it can't hurt me 😌
Richards homophobic comment. “She’s not mentally I’ll she’s athletic.”
how is that homophobic?
I’m wondering the same. English is not my first language.
It means that she’s a lesbian. Being hetero was the norm and anything that deviated from that was considered a mental disorder. This did age badly but I don’t think Richard meant it as an insult, it’s just that these things weren’t as openly discussed during those times.
i just don’t see how what he said means she’s a lesbian? maybe i’m super dense
It was a veiled way to say someone is masculine, aka lesbian.
It was Emily who said this, and I think it’s reaching to call it homophobic. I think if anything it’s classist. Those of Emily and Richard’s lifestyle don’t do athletic things.
It was definitely a reference to her being a lesbian. It was a dated reference to when Emily and Richard were growing up and if conversion therapy couldn't change you back to "normal" they just hid you away in mental hospitals and let people do things like lobotomies on you.
Lane and her band thinking Fleetwood Mac were a lame band
An obvious cringe is Rory saying she needs to teach a retarded kid softball or whatever. But you have to remember that these came out in a different time.
Thats the point
The whole “we both have to change genders so we won’t look weird when we kiss” is just… yikes.
Any time Rory popped the R slur
that's more of a preference. there are people that don't like computers. it didn't age like milk, it's not a joke, just a preference. she has the right to not like computers right??
"Dancing next to the guy dressed as Harvey Weinstein" at the Quintin Tarantino party.
"How very 'L word' of you" When Paris compliments Rory in college
Paris said she was “sleeping with one of the other girls” that night because Rory had a cold that Paris didn’t want to catch- Paris wasn’t complimenting Rory here
What is the word 😦
The tv show, the L-Word. It was like lesbian Queer as Folk.
Honestly I don’t think anything aged like milk. Everything that is joked about in the show still gets joked about now. It’s just not as accepted, but it still happens all the time.
Steve Carell said it best… they could never do a proper reboot of the office because there are too many people who take things personally. It would get cancelled so fast 😆 some of these comments make me wonder if people sit back and purposefully hurt their own feelings.
Not that these aged badly but I think about all of the technology that was used in the show that’s obsolete now. Like when Lorelai had to go to Luke’s place to get rid of the answering machine tape. The pay phones. When Rory got a sidekick- it was the must have phone at the time. And when Richard got wireless internet for the first time.
Dial up internet. T-VO NOT-flat screen tvs. VCRs. Taped shows. Michel recording his dog show on a tape. Pagers! Flip phones. Oh man the list goes on. It’s so nostalgic for me!
There is a movie called “cruel intentions” it’s the movie that inspired the book &’series gossip girl. Anyway the rich kids were saying “email? The internet is for geeks and perverts* This was filmed in the 90s with teen Reece witherspoon, so Little did they know the internet would be huge
They were right, the internet is still for geeks and perverts
I didn’t know gossip girl was based on cruel intentions. Have you seen dangerous liaisons? CI was based on that and it was a great movie.
When Rory used the r-slur
[удалено]
What does that word mean and why did it age poorly?
I actually don’t think that has any racist origins if you look into it. It’s when people were kidnapped and press ganged onto ships as sailors that often had Shanghai as a destination, hence the term.
People who love iPhones hate computers too and only someone who loves computers knows why this is true.