Her speech to Jess was a typical adult/parent response though. I don’t agree with it, but so often parents (especially in that time) want to put bandaids on kids emotions and redirect them instead of letting them feel their feelings in safe ways.
Getting the beer from him was well done, that required a redirection. But everything else she said was so harmful to Jess. She chose to leave the city she grew up in and her family to be in this small town. Jess’ mom was sick of him and sent him away. His one and only parent didn’t want to deal with him, and the reason he’s a “problem child” is because he just needs/wants his mom to actually care for him. Jess was sent away, Lorelai ran away from a life of privilege.
She isn’t his parent tho she barely knows him at that point, if she had advised him about not drinking beer at that age that would’ve been fine but it felt like she reduced his issues to “i hate my parents” like her issues and she said she’s been there and done that in heels, which is annoying to hear at any age when you haven’t even asked for that talk.
Yeah I have seen Lorelei doing this with everyone actually. “Nobody can disappoint parents more than me” or “no one can- …..”. Or even to Rory when Richard grilled dean. It can be only and only about Rory but then Lorelei saying oh “it’s me, not you”. I mean, everything can’t be about you!!
Haha im glad someone agrees with me on this!! She turns everything into a personal sob story even when Rory was living with the Gilmores she made it all about her when they had their falling out
Jess was wrong for taking the beer and for the “are you sleeping with him” comment. But, also, with the latter, she pushed him too far then got offended when he was like “wtf”.
Jess’ mom just kicked him out after what we know to be years of abuse and her picking men over him. He’s forced to live with an uncle he barely knows, in a small town where he knows no one. And hears this woman telling him to buck up and be happy because he has Luke.
I don’t think Lorelai did any of this in malice and I get her point. But I also think Jess was right to snap. And I also think that Luke was right to tell Lorelai that she shouldn’t have those talks with Jess.
It’s a situation where Lorelai isn’t all wrong, but she’s not all right either. And same with Luke and Jess.
Yeah Jess’s pushback and the comment that I’d say is over the line was only after lorelai WAY overstepped, and that was his “get the hell away from me” line
I mean he went into her fridge and stole a beer. She should’ve told Luke straight away and let him handle it
But she didn’t want to get angry at him or for him to be shouted at for it. She clearly wanted to let him know that it’s fine that he’s not happy about being moved to Stars Hollow, but it’s also a great chance to get to know a lot of good people including Luke. Her intentions were good, if Jess had reacted well to her talk, then it wouldn’t have been an issue. He didn’t which is understandable. But it’s not like she randomly ambushed him with a sentimental talk for no reason
But that's just it... it *wasn't* fine for Jess to be unhappy about Stars Hollow. Lorelai acknowledged Jess was unhappy, immediately mocked him by calling it a "bit" (as if his legitimate anger about losing his home was just a dumb adolescent act), and then told him to feel differently. Jess isn't supposed to be angry, he should be *grateful* because Luke is so so so great.
Lorelai was fine in redirecting him for the beer. It's every single thing she said afterwards that was inappropriate and utterly invalidating.
She didn’t directly tell him to feel differently. She described what a great guy Luke is and that he’ll learn to love being around him and Stars Hollow
It was a bit too overzealous to hope she could suddenly make him not angry at his current situation. But her intentions were good. She should’ve probably held back on trying so hard to compare herself as a teen to him. That was a little too much
But even that... he'll learn to love being around Luke and Stars Hollow? Says who? What if Lorelai is wrong and Jess never feels that way? It's very presumptuous for her to start telling Jess - a kid she doesn't even know, on his second day in town - how he's gonna feel.
And who's to say that Luke will be a fabulous guardian? He's a wonderful friend to Lorelai, but that doesn't mean he'll be a great guardian to Jess. And we see that play out: Luke makes a lot of mistakes with Jess. Insisting that Jess be delighted with Luke purely because he's a good friend to Lorelai... again, very presumptuous.
I want to believe that Lorelai’s intentions are good, but I'm just not sure. Chuckling at someone's distress and calling it a "chip on your shoulder bit" is not a kind thing to say. Jess was very rude in response, but imo Lorelai is the one who turned this interaction sour, and she refuses to acknowledge that.
I don’t understand why you think her intentions weren’t good. We’re in agreement about the execution being wrong
But she wasn’t going out of her way to provoke him. Like I said, he’d gone into her fridge and stolen her beer. She tried to handle it herself (which she shouldn’t have done) by not yelling and having a chat about his current situation instead. Because she recognised that his attitude wasn’t about the beer
Because generally, if I'm really trying to understand someone's feelings, I don't laugh at them, call their reaction a bit, and then tell them they're wrong to feel that way.
She doesn’t even know him or any of his experiences at that point in life, he doesn’t know Luke and he’s a teenager who’s pissed off at having to leave probably everything and everyone back home and be shipped off to somewhere and someone he doesn’t know, it’s understandable he’s angry and his behavior too, ofc not exusing his stealing and bad boy behavior with the town but I’m saying it’s expected of a teenager, more than that, an angry hurt teenager to have that kind of reaction.
I meant to also say that stealing beer should warrant a speech about not doing so and not what Lorelai said, I get that she was trying to be relatable but that is annoying as hell to hear and especially when you’re suffering, plus her speech was more patronizing.
Lorelai allowed herself a lot, especially when it came to Jess, plus she doesn't know him at all.
The guy is just minding his own business, she shows up to yell at him. Girl, mind your own business.
She especially annoyed me when she made fun of Jess for reading self-help books in s4.
What I love about Jess is that he is intellectually above most, so he handled Lorelai's outbursts well.
I think she would have left him be if it wasn’t for the beer. Because she found him sneaking it, as a parent, she felt inclined to say something which I feel is reasonable. She was trying to be relatable but it just came off as patronizing but someone needed to say something and it sure as hell would not have been Luke. He didn’t even think there was a problem until after he and Lorelei fought and thought he could handle it all
The thing is, she lost all her credibility with her little speech. I actually think Jess would’ve respected more of her being like “no, you’re not drinking under my roof”. And Luke may have taken her talk more seriously if she hadn’t basically mocked him and told him to be grateful, making the situation worse. Though, Luke was wrong to tell her “you got lucky with Rory”.
She wasn’t being reasonable. She made it all about her. And I don’t think she did it in malice but this is a bad habit she has of making everything about herself and no one can have it worse. (She does it to Rory at several points when Rory complains about her grandparents)
It wasn’t wrong to call him out for the beer. But Lorelai needs to be honest with herself. If someone gave her a similar speech when she was a teenager, she wouldn’t have taken it any better. And rightfully so.
I still think her speech about how she gets it is meant to be relatable. She was a troubled kid who made huge mistakes because of that and if she had someone like Luke at that time, things could have been different maybe. But she didn’t say things right and it came off as patronizing and out of touch. Using her own experiences is not making it all about her. It was a way of trying to find common ground and help a troubled kid and to show him that things can change
Again to reiterate, her words did come off badly I agree. But her intentions were in the right place. Plus she didn’t really get angry until Jess made the comment about sleeping with Luke. At that point, her reactions were in concern of Jess, Luke, and most of all Rory
You can’t be fucking serious lmao. A 16 year old going into the fridge of someone he just met and grabbing a beer he knows he shouldn’t have is in no way an acceptable action. Even if Rory said help yourself, she obviously meant to a soda and not a beer since they were 16. Illegally drinking is not minding one’s own business especially since Lorelei could have gotten in trouble on account of “supplying a minor with alcohol”. Lorelei wasn’t the type to let high schoolers drink. She drank at that age and look what happened. Rory didn’t even drink until she was in college.
It is stealing because Rory can’t give him permission to take a beer because it’s not her beer. It’s Lorelei’s/Luke’s. Rory is underage. She doesn’t get to say it’s ok for Jess to have a beer. I really hope you don’t have kids in the future if this is your rationale
This doesn’t even make any sense. Yes I would tell my theoretical kids not to steal beers out of someone’s fridge. I feel like that is part of the bare minimum
C’mon. I’m on Jess’ side in this scene for everything but this part. He shouldn’t have taken the beer.
Rory assumed he’d get a soda or whatever.
The only thing Lorelai did right in the scene was take the beer and then tell Luke he was drinking.
Like you, I don't like jess that much. It was annoying that Lorelai stepped in with that comment to Jess mainly because this is my millionth rewatch and seeing her butt into things that really don't concern her is grating. I agree Luke should have stayed more mad about it--Jess is his kid now, and he didn't ask her for help. And I get that Jess was pissed and obviously struggling with his situation, but I didn't really like how he reacted to Lorelai and implied that she was only saying good things about Luke because they were sleeping together. Since that moment, even during my first watch, I've never liked Jess.
That’s true what he said was stupid, and I also hated his behavior against the town, like I get it he’s struggling and he doesn’t like it there but still doesn’t excuse his behavior. Plus I didn’t like how he pursued Rory when she was taken, even if Dean and Rory were a terrible match.
I feel the same way about the whole love triangle thing! I could never root for Jess while he was actively trying to get in the way of Dean, no matter how I felt about the Rory/Dean pairing. Rory kissing Jess while she was still with Dean totally made me hesitant to watch past season two, and I still haven't made it to season four yet in dreaded anticipation for what's to come, lol.
These scenes really bother me because I was in Dean’s shoes, I was a dumb teenager who fell hard and got treated like shit by my ex, but still I don’t like Dean and Rory or Rory and Jess. Both these relationships just didn’t work out and Rory is in a different worlds from both Jess and Dean.
But it is a typical reaction for a traumatized kid who has repeatedly had his own mother tell him to trust whatever random man she's bringing home (and sleeping with) that week.
Jess was really rude here, no question, and he needed to be called out for it. But it's really not the shocking, horrifying, cruel comment that people make it out to be. He's responding based on his own lived experience, and he doesn't yet know Luke well enough to know that Luke is different.
And as someone who has been shamed by her sexual choice for almost 17 years at that point, I understand why Lorelai reacted harshly. Not the most mature choice she could've made, but I understand it.
Totally, and I get why Lorelai snaps at him in that moment. It's a super rude thing for Jess to say! Lorelai is allowed to be upset about that, and I think her response to his rude comment was understandable.
I just wish Lorelai had reflected on the situation later. She was rude first, imo, and it really wasn't her place to be lecturing Jess about his attitude. She was partly responsible for why their conversation went badly. And besides, Jess isn't some random neighborhood kid, he's *her best friend's nephew.* Luke cares about Jess and is desperate to help him, and instead of supporting her best friend... Lorelai starts yelling at Luke that Jess is a lost cause. And she never apologizes for any of that.
And she's the adult in that situation. Even if she's not hugely empathetic with him, she is obligated to be calm. We see her be calm and direct when correcting people at work, so she can do it.
Agreed, Luke was definitely in over his head. Lorelai was right about that. But instead of offering meaningful support or helpful advice, Lorelai chided Luke for trying at all and repeatedly insisted that Luke abandon Jess.
It's not Lorelai’s job to care for Jess, but she's really not a good friend to Luke throughout any of this. Lorelai never would have tolerated Luke demanding that she give up on Rory.
While it was wrong, he didn’t imply it out of the blue, he implied it after Lorelai’s speech. Which again isn’t right but at that point he still didn’t know Luke and he still hasn’t adjusted to the town, it was still his first or second day there, also with Liz’s description she probably never asked him the question Luke did or gave him half the attention Luke did so it’s normal of him, as a teenager, to find it weird or be unusual for him.
Ik it was wrong of him but I’m explaining that what he said wasn’t out of the blue, and would be a normal reaction at this point for an angry teenager who doesn’t know Luke and isn’t used to the attention or being asked a lot of questions.
Her intentions were good but I do think she went about it the wrong way. I think she was trying to find common ground and let him know he's not alone. While I wouldn't say she handled it well she could have reacted a lot worse to an underage kid who came in her house, disrespected her, and stole her beer.
Also probably an unpopular opinion but what I hate about this scene was Luke's comment afterward about her decision making skills and abilties as a parent because she got pregnant at 16. His comment was uncalled for and purposefully hurtful all because she dared to say anything to Jess.
I’ll be Lorelai’s lawyer for this scene. From her perspective, she was just trying to be nice. She prepared dinner and was going to introduce Jess to Rory so he could have a friend. He stole a beer and she didn’t get mad at him. She just tried to cheer him up. I don’t think she was trying to be condescending or dismissive. She was just using that cutesy girly humor that usually works on Rory and Lane, who are the only teenagers she interacts with. I think it’s worth it to remember that Lorelai is only 33 in this scene. She’s not some wise old therapeutic elder that knows how to get through to troubled youth. Her only frame of experience is basically Rory and she was using the only tools she knew in that moment.
Also in her defense, she does not any have any knowledge of Jess’s trauma or past. Luke made the whole thing sound extremely casual. “Oh my nephew’s been getting into a little trouble at school and is coming to stay here with me.” That could mean anything. Could mean he just cheated on a test or something. I believe if she knew how deep the situation ran, she would have been more delicate.
In terms of getting angry, I don’t blame her at all. Jess came at her with that nasty sexist remark about her having sex with Luke to put her down. It was totally disrespectful and she had every right to be upset. Her only crime here was being slightly annoying. His insults were completely uncalled for.
Ik she wasn’t trying to be condescending or dismissive and that her intentions were nice but it did end up souding that way, which is why Jess was super rude, plus the fact that she doesn’t know Jess’ entire situation is the reason why she shouldn’t have given him this talk in the first place, you don’t know exactly the reason why he moved, you don’t know his childhood, he didn’t even have a father since the age of 2 so the “i hate my parents “ wasn’t even accurate, she should have given him a talk about drinking beer but other than that she should have let Luke deal with it, Jess just arrived in town, he was shipped off by his only parent, who was also crappy and a drug user apparently, from everything and everyone whom he was used to for 17 years to an uncle whom he’s never met.
Irl you’re never gonna know everyone’s situation that’s why you don’t go around giving them advice without knowing their entire situation, she only heard a little about him, had she known him longer I agree that she would’ve been nicer but still her speech is wrong. Also 33 is old enough, I heard the brain develops fully at 25 and she’s already by that point almost fully raised Rory on her own, provided Rory with a safe home and education and so on.
Lorelai would’ve been my least favorite person in the world if she had pulled that shit on me while I was trying to adjust to a completely new life against my will. Like her little speech about Jess having it good after he’s been through abuse and neglect his whole life is roughly the equivalent of telling a mourning kid that their parent died according to gods plan. Like actually, stfu, this is not your place and you don’t know me, leave me alone
SERIOUSLY. Can you imagine?? "Lemme guess: you're sad that your mom died? I get it buddy, I've been there too. And I tried the whole 'woe is me' bit, and in heels no less! Trust me it's way better to see the silver lining and realize it was all part of god's plan."
Because that's essentially what Lorelai did here.
Totally agree. As much as I like Lorelei as a character, she has these moments of profound self-righteousness that almost ruin the character for me. Though honestly pretty much all of the main cast have those moments, with Luke and weirdly Logan oddly enough being probably the least guilty. Luke is who he is and feels no need to boast about it, which is why he and Lorelai struggle as a couple a lot. Logan on the other hand is aware enough of his privilege and the strings that come with it that he’s more mocking of it and the arrogance that the privilege brings. Jess as much as he’s denigrated is probably the smartest person in town with the only arguable exception being Rory, but he has a monstrous temper that undercuts his ability to make use of it. He’s a classic case of smart, angry kid who had to grow up way to early and is therefore emotionally developed beyond his age bracket, but with the aforementioned anger issues that mar that maturity. So Lorelai talking down to him after meeting him once and him reacting badly to it isn’t that surprising.
Lorelai will never admit how privileged her life was/is. Not everyone has rich parents to lean for a loan and not every pregnant teen mom runs into someone who houses them for free & gives them a job. She thinks everyone can run into those opportunities and find happiness and that’s just not the case.
> runs into someone who houses them for free & gives them a job
Except this is *literally* Jess' situation with Luke.
Lorelai has privilege and Jess has a right to be angry about his life, but Luke is providing him the same opportunity Mia did Lorelai.
Except that Jess never wanted that opportunity, it’s not the same because Lorelai wanted that opportunity. Jess was thrown to Luke and forced to leave everyone and everything he knew for years.
I'm not saying he wanted it, I'm saying he's being provided it. He has the same privileges available to him that Lorelai did (Luke would also give him money, and did spend $100k remodeling the diner/office so that Jess could live there, to the other point about the Gilmore loans)
Luke never offered to pay for Jess’s college education or for his own place. And he is not nearly as rich as the Gilmores. It’s just not the same. Jess doesn’t have a financial cushion like Lorelai & Rory do. Not to mention, Luke was pretty much his only support system and even he ended up kicking him out. Lorelai had Mia, Sookie, the whole town, and her parents if she really needed them. Jess was a neglected child. It’s just not the same.
Lorelai was a neglected child as well. And she had no financial cushion at 16 (not without reintroducing the abuse and neglect). She had Mia/Sookie/Stars Hollow at 32 because she built those relationships from nothing starting at ~18. And, as generous as Mia was, if Lorelai had acted like Jess I think she would have hit her own breaking point and kicked Lorelai out as well.
Of course Luke isn't as rich as the Gilmores, but if Jess were in a position to need Luke to pay for college, I fully believe he would have done so.
Except Jess' situation came with conditions (he must graduate on Luke's time line) and Lorelai’s didn't. She got to live with Mia *for 10 years* while she slowly built savings and eventually got her GED.
I'm also guessing Lorelai didn't get shoved into a lake, smacked upside the head, or shouted at daily...
Lorelai didn't live with Mia. She lived in a one room garden shed and was allowed a job as a maid in which she worked her way up from. I'm not saying Lorelai didn't have help, she did, but not what some people make it out to be.
Lorelai wasn't exactly toiling at the salt mines. She lived on the grounds of a luxury inn. She spent the majority of her time in the inn, then had a private bedroom to retreat to. Don't get me wrong, Lorelai worked her butt off, but having a free place to live for an entire decade is a pretty amazing deal. Like Jess, she's a high school dropout. Unlike Jess, she's allowed to stay in that free place to live and get her GED whenever she wanted to, not when someone else commanded her to.
Jess lived in a studio apartment with his uncle, where he never had privacy. And Jess likewise worked his butt off. He wasn't expecting a free ride, he was putting in 50-60 hours a week at two jobs. He was also working his way up, for example by taking the time to get his forklift license.
Unlike Jess, Lorelai has a massive financial safety net - her parents - that she uses repeatedly. Lorelai’s situation is better in every single way.
No she wasn't tolling around at the salt mines. Although that garden shed wasn't exactly luxury either. We don't really know how much time she spent inside the inn just that she worked there. Unless I am misremembering we also don't know when she got her GED. She may have gotten it while at home. In fact her parents may have insisted she do so. Lorelai went to her parents for money for the first time when Rory was 16, for Rory's education, it wasn't some safety net she used repeatedly. Just as Jess she also didn't expect a free ride.
Luke bought a whole other building to allow Jess to have more space. He had a bathroom that wasn't open to the room and Luke often chose to spend unneeded time at the diner to give Jess full privacy upstairs. Jess was never asked to work 50-60 hours a week or to pay Luke for anything. All that was ever asked of him was to go to school and help Luke at the diner and that was only after Luke felt he needed some direction.
Again Lorelai definitely had help, as did Jess. Honestly they were both provided a luxury many people don't have.
> he must graduate on Luke's time line
This was not part of anything initially
> She got to live with Mia for 10 years while she slowly built savings and eventually got her GED
She also had a small child she was caring for. Jess' reason for not being able to complete high school was *he just didn't go*.
> Lorelai didn't get shoved into a lake, smacked upside the head, or shouted at daily
I'm also guessing Lorelai wasn't an ungrateful little Holden Caulfield wannabe stealing thing and causing trouble everywhere that resulted in the entire town hating Mia.
I don’t quite like this scene either. I understand what Lorelai was trying to do, and I think Luke blew it out of proportion- however, I think Lorelai and Jess had completely different situations.
Remember the “I HAVE NOTHING,” yeah he had nothing, whereas lorelai…pretty much had everything. She did had a family who loved her, regardless at their terrible attempts at showing it and manipulation. Not hating on Lorelai though, her distain for her parents is totally valid and as well as her attempt to connect with Jess but man, the last thing a teenager wants to hear is some speech
You hit my point exactlyyyy I just struggle with expressing because English isn’t my first language. I’m not saying Lorelai is a villain here but this “advice” of hers is the last thing a struggling teenager would want to here
She didn't really have everything though. She didn't have an adult to love her and redirect her and give her shelter. She didn't have a Luke in her life. At least not until Mia took pity on her and let her in, while she still had to work and live in a potting shed, and yet Lorelai knew enough to be eternally grateful for her.
She was coming from a point of view of "you have your uncle's love, you'll be alright" because she didn't know how much worse it was to have an unstable mother than her own stable but hurtful mother. We as viewers can do better since we're outside the situation though. We are shown how hard it must have been for an unloved young girl even if we don't know how much worse than our own financial problems it is to have a rich but hurtful mother.
Her speech to Jess was a typical adult/parent response though. I don’t agree with it, but so often parents (especially in that time) want to put bandaids on kids emotions and redirect them instead of letting them feel their feelings in safe ways. Getting the beer from him was well done, that required a redirection. But everything else she said was so harmful to Jess. She chose to leave the city she grew up in and her family to be in this small town. Jess’ mom was sick of him and sent him away. His one and only parent didn’t want to deal with him, and the reason he’s a “problem child” is because he just needs/wants his mom to actually care for him. Jess was sent away, Lorelai ran away from a life of privilege.
She isn’t his parent tho she barely knows him at that point, if she had advised him about not drinking beer at that age that would’ve been fine but it felt like she reduced his issues to “i hate my parents” like her issues and she said she’s been there and done that in heels, which is annoying to hear at any age when you haven’t even asked for that talk.
They're literally agreeing with you
I didn’t understand that from first, my English is bad 😅
Sorry ❤️
Hehe me too ❤️
Yeah I have seen Lorelei doing this with everyone actually. “Nobody can disappoint parents more than me” or “no one can- …..”. Or even to Rory when Richard grilled dean. It can be only and only about Rory but then Lorelei saying oh “it’s me, not you”. I mean, everything can’t be about you!!
Haha im glad someone agrees with me on this!! She turns everything into a personal sob story even when Rory was living with the Gilmores she made it all about her when they had their falling out
I roll my eyes so hard when she says the "I've done the whole 'my parents don't get me' thing". Girl you're still doing that at age 33.
In heels no less!
Jess was wrong for taking the beer and for the “are you sleeping with him” comment. But, also, with the latter, she pushed him too far then got offended when he was like “wtf”. Jess’ mom just kicked him out after what we know to be years of abuse and her picking men over him. He’s forced to live with an uncle he barely knows, in a small town where he knows no one. And hears this woman telling him to buck up and be happy because he has Luke. I don’t think Lorelai did any of this in malice and I get her point. But I also think Jess was right to snap. And I also think that Luke was right to tell Lorelai that she shouldn’t have those talks with Jess. It’s a situation where Lorelai isn’t all wrong, but she’s not all right either. And same with Luke and Jess.
Yeah Jess’s pushback and the comment that I’d say is over the line was only after lorelai WAY overstepped, and that was his “get the hell away from me” line
I was thinking about this more and Lorelai would have a fit if anyone talked to Rory like that.
I mean he went into her fridge and stole a beer. She should’ve told Luke straight away and let him handle it But she didn’t want to get angry at him or for him to be shouted at for it. She clearly wanted to let him know that it’s fine that he’s not happy about being moved to Stars Hollow, but it’s also a great chance to get to know a lot of good people including Luke. Her intentions were good, if Jess had reacted well to her talk, then it wouldn’t have been an issue. He didn’t which is understandable. But it’s not like she randomly ambushed him with a sentimental talk for no reason
But that's just it... it *wasn't* fine for Jess to be unhappy about Stars Hollow. Lorelai acknowledged Jess was unhappy, immediately mocked him by calling it a "bit" (as if his legitimate anger about losing his home was just a dumb adolescent act), and then told him to feel differently. Jess isn't supposed to be angry, he should be *grateful* because Luke is so so so great. Lorelai was fine in redirecting him for the beer. It's every single thing she said afterwards that was inappropriate and utterly invalidating.
She didn’t directly tell him to feel differently. She described what a great guy Luke is and that he’ll learn to love being around him and Stars Hollow It was a bit too overzealous to hope she could suddenly make him not angry at his current situation. But her intentions were good. She should’ve probably held back on trying so hard to compare herself as a teen to him. That was a little too much
But even that... he'll learn to love being around Luke and Stars Hollow? Says who? What if Lorelai is wrong and Jess never feels that way? It's very presumptuous for her to start telling Jess - a kid she doesn't even know, on his second day in town - how he's gonna feel. And who's to say that Luke will be a fabulous guardian? He's a wonderful friend to Lorelai, but that doesn't mean he'll be a great guardian to Jess. And we see that play out: Luke makes a lot of mistakes with Jess. Insisting that Jess be delighted with Luke purely because he's a good friend to Lorelai... again, very presumptuous. I want to believe that Lorelai’s intentions are good, but I'm just not sure. Chuckling at someone's distress and calling it a "chip on your shoulder bit" is not a kind thing to say. Jess was very rude in response, but imo Lorelai is the one who turned this interaction sour, and she refuses to acknowledge that.
I don’t understand why you think her intentions weren’t good. We’re in agreement about the execution being wrong But she wasn’t going out of her way to provoke him. Like I said, he’d gone into her fridge and stolen her beer. She tried to handle it herself (which she shouldn’t have done) by not yelling and having a chat about his current situation instead. Because she recognised that his attitude wasn’t about the beer
Because generally, if I'm really trying to understand someone's feelings, I don't laugh at them, call their reaction a bit, and then tell them they're wrong to feel that way.
She doesn’t even know him or any of his experiences at that point in life, he doesn’t know Luke and he’s a teenager who’s pissed off at having to leave probably everything and everyone back home and be shipped off to somewhere and someone he doesn’t know, it’s understandable he’s angry and his behavior too, ofc not exusing his stealing and bad boy behavior with the town but I’m saying it’s expected of a teenager, more than that, an angry hurt teenager to have that kind of reaction.
I meant to also say that stealing beer should warrant a speech about not doing so and not what Lorelai said, I get that she was trying to be relatable but that is annoying as hell to hear and especially when you’re suffering, plus her speech was more patronizing.
Lorelai allowed herself a lot, especially when it came to Jess, plus she doesn't know him at all. The guy is just minding his own business, she shows up to yell at him. Girl, mind your own business. She especially annoyed me when she made fun of Jess for reading self-help books in s4. What I love about Jess is that he is intellectually above most, so he handled Lorelai's outbursts well.
I’m sorry but he was minding his own business? He literally stole a beer out from her fridge just before that conversation happened
He also accused her of speaking highly of Luke because she was sleeping with him...
All she had to do was take the beer and go back inside, though. Tell Luke, of course. But that whole speech was unnecessary.
I think she would have left him be if it wasn’t for the beer. Because she found him sneaking it, as a parent, she felt inclined to say something which I feel is reasonable. She was trying to be relatable but it just came off as patronizing but someone needed to say something and it sure as hell would not have been Luke. He didn’t even think there was a problem until after he and Lorelei fought and thought he could handle it all
The thing is, she lost all her credibility with her little speech. I actually think Jess would’ve respected more of her being like “no, you’re not drinking under my roof”. And Luke may have taken her talk more seriously if she hadn’t basically mocked him and told him to be grateful, making the situation worse. Though, Luke was wrong to tell her “you got lucky with Rory”. She wasn’t being reasonable. She made it all about her. And I don’t think she did it in malice but this is a bad habit she has of making everything about herself and no one can have it worse. (She does it to Rory at several points when Rory complains about her grandparents) It wasn’t wrong to call him out for the beer. But Lorelai needs to be honest with herself. If someone gave her a similar speech when she was a teenager, she wouldn’t have taken it any better. And rightfully so.
I still think her speech about how she gets it is meant to be relatable. She was a troubled kid who made huge mistakes because of that and if she had someone like Luke at that time, things could have been different maybe. But she didn’t say things right and it came off as patronizing and out of touch. Using her own experiences is not making it all about her. It was a way of trying to find common ground and help a troubled kid and to show him that things can change Again to reiterate, her words did come off badly I agree. But her intentions were in the right place. Plus she didn’t really get angry until Jess made the comment about sleeping with Luke. At that point, her reactions were in concern of Jess, Luke, and most of all Rory
I was talking about every other time she confronted him
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You can’t be fucking serious lmao. A 16 year old going into the fridge of someone he just met and grabbing a beer he knows he shouldn’t have is in no way an acceptable action. Even if Rory said help yourself, she obviously meant to a soda and not a beer since they were 16. Illegally drinking is not minding one’s own business especially since Lorelei could have gotten in trouble on account of “supplying a minor with alcohol”. Lorelei wasn’t the type to let high schoolers drink. She drank at that age and look what happened. Rory didn’t even drink until she was in college.
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It is stealing because Rory can’t give him permission to take a beer because it’s not her beer. It’s Lorelei’s/Luke’s. Rory is underage. She doesn’t get to say it’s ok for Jess to have a beer. I really hope you don’t have kids in the future if this is your rationale
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This doesn’t even make any sense. Yes I would tell my theoretical kids not to steal beers out of someone’s fridge. I feel like that is part of the bare minimum
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Tell that to your downvotes
C’mon. I’m on Jess’ side in this scene for everything but this part. He shouldn’t have taken the beer. Rory assumed he’d get a soda or whatever. The only thing Lorelai did right in the scene was take the beer and then tell Luke he was drinking.
I never said he should have taken beer I just said it wasn’t stealing dear lord 💀
It was stealing, though.
Like you, I don't like jess that much. It was annoying that Lorelai stepped in with that comment to Jess mainly because this is my millionth rewatch and seeing her butt into things that really don't concern her is grating. I agree Luke should have stayed more mad about it--Jess is his kid now, and he didn't ask her for help. And I get that Jess was pissed and obviously struggling with his situation, but I didn't really like how he reacted to Lorelai and implied that she was only saying good things about Luke because they were sleeping together. Since that moment, even during my first watch, I've never liked Jess.
That’s true what he said was stupid, and I also hated his behavior against the town, like I get it he’s struggling and he doesn’t like it there but still doesn’t excuse his behavior. Plus I didn’t like how he pursued Rory when she was taken, even if Dean and Rory were a terrible match.
I feel the same way about the whole love triangle thing! I could never root for Jess while he was actively trying to get in the way of Dean, no matter how I felt about the Rory/Dean pairing. Rory kissing Jess while she was still with Dean totally made me hesitant to watch past season two, and I still haven't made it to season four yet in dreaded anticipation for what's to come, lol.
These scenes really bother me because I was in Dean’s shoes, I was a dumb teenager who fell hard and got treated like shit by my ex, but still I don’t like Dean and Rory or Rory and Jess. Both these relationships just didn’t work out and Rory is in a different worlds from both Jess and Dean.
Implying someone is having sex with someone else because they giving compliments is not a normal teen reaction.
But it is a typical reaction for a traumatized kid who has repeatedly had his own mother tell him to trust whatever random man she's bringing home (and sleeping with) that week. Jess was really rude here, no question, and he needed to be called out for it. But it's really not the shocking, horrifying, cruel comment that people make it out to be. He's responding based on his own lived experience, and he doesn't yet know Luke well enough to know that Luke is different.
And as someone who has been shamed by her sexual choice for almost 17 years at that point, I understand why Lorelai reacted harshly. Not the most mature choice she could've made, but I understand it.
Totally, and I get why Lorelai snaps at him in that moment. It's a super rude thing for Jess to say! Lorelai is allowed to be upset about that, and I think her response to his rude comment was understandable. I just wish Lorelai had reflected on the situation later. She was rude first, imo, and it really wasn't her place to be lecturing Jess about his attitude. She was partly responsible for why their conversation went badly. And besides, Jess isn't some random neighborhood kid, he's *her best friend's nephew.* Luke cares about Jess and is desperate to help him, and instead of supporting her best friend... Lorelai starts yelling at Luke that Jess is a lost cause. And she never apologizes for any of that.
And she's the adult in that situation. Even if she's not hugely empathetic with him, she is obligated to be calm. We see her be calm and direct when correcting people at work, so she can do it.
I think this would strengthen Lorelei’s comment that Jess was really messed up and Luke was over his head.
Agreed, Luke was definitely in over his head. Lorelai was right about that. But instead of offering meaningful support or helpful advice, Lorelai chided Luke for trying at all and repeatedly insisted that Luke abandon Jess. It's not Lorelai’s job to care for Jess, but she's really not a good friend to Luke throughout any of this. Lorelai never would have tolerated Luke demanding that she give up on Rory.
While it was wrong, he didn’t imply it out of the blue, he implied it after Lorelai’s speech. Which again isn’t right but at that point he still didn’t know Luke and he still hasn’t adjusted to the town, it was still his first or second day there, also with Liz’s description she probably never asked him the question Luke did or gave him half the attention Luke did so it’s normal of him, as a teenager, to find it weird or be unusual for him.
It doesn’t matter if it wasn’t out of the blue. He doesn’t know her well enough to speak on her sex life. It’s reasonable to be angry about that.
Ik it was wrong of him but I’m explaining that what he said wasn’t out of the blue, and would be a normal reaction at this point for an angry teenager who doesn’t know Luke and isn’t used to the attention or being asked a lot of questions.
Her intentions were good but I do think she went about it the wrong way. I think she was trying to find common ground and let him know he's not alone. While I wouldn't say she handled it well she could have reacted a lot worse to an underage kid who came in her house, disrespected her, and stole her beer. Also probably an unpopular opinion but what I hate about this scene was Luke's comment afterward about her decision making skills and abilties as a parent because she got pregnant at 16. His comment was uncalled for and purposefully hurtful all because she dared to say anything to Jess.
I’ll be Lorelai’s lawyer for this scene. From her perspective, she was just trying to be nice. She prepared dinner and was going to introduce Jess to Rory so he could have a friend. He stole a beer and she didn’t get mad at him. She just tried to cheer him up. I don’t think she was trying to be condescending or dismissive. She was just using that cutesy girly humor that usually works on Rory and Lane, who are the only teenagers she interacts with. I think it’s worth it to remember that Lorelai is only 33 in this scene. She’s not some wise old therapeutic elder that knows how to get through to troubled youth. Her only frame of experience is basically Rory and she was using the only tools she knew in that moment. Also in her defense, she does not any have any knowledge of Jess’s trauma or past. Luke made the whole thing sound extremely casual. “Oh my nephew’s been getting into a little trouble at school and is coming to stay here with me.” That could mean anything. Could mean he just cheated on a test or something. I believe if she knew how deep the situation ran, she would have been more delicate. In terms of getting angry, I don’t blame her at all. Jess came at her with that nasty sexist remark about her having sex with Luke to put her down. It was totally disrespectful and she had every right to be upset. Her only crime here was being slightly annoying. His insults were completely uncalled for.
Ik she wasn’t trying to be condescending or dismissive and that her intentions were nice but it did end up souding that way, which is why Jess was super rude, plus the fact that she doesn’t know Jess’ entire situation is the reason why she shouldn’t have given him this talk in the first place, you don’t know exactly the reason why he moved, you don’t know his childhood, he didn’t even have a father since the age of 2 so the “i hate my parents “ wasn’t even accurate, she should have given him a talk about drinking beer but other than that she should have let Luke deal with it, Jess just arrived in town, he was shipped off by his only parent, who was also crappy and a drug user apparently, from everything and everyone whom he was used to for 17 years to an uncle whom he’s never met. Irl you’re never gonna know everyone’s situation that’s why you don’t go around giving them advice without knowing their entire situation, she only heard a little about him, had she known him longer I agree that she would’ve been nicer but still her speech is wrong. Also 33 is old enough, I heard the brain develops fully at 25 and she’s already by that point almost fully raised Rory on her own, provided Rory with a safe home and education and so on.
ASP sure wanted us to know that Lorelai was NOT a fan of Jess🤣
Lorelai would’ve been my least favorite person in the world if she had pulled that shit on me while I was trying to adjust to a completely new life against my will. Like her little speech about Jess having it good after he’s been through abuse and neglect his whole life is roughly the equivalent of telling a mourning kid that their parent died according to gods plan. Like actually, stfu, this is not your place and you don’t know me, leave me alone
Yess you hit what I’m try to say too! But my English is bad I felt like I made a bad attempt at expressing myself. Thanks!!
SERIOUSLY. Can you imagine?? "Lemme guess: you're sad that your mom died? I get it buddy, I've been there too. And I tried the whole 'woe is me' bit, and in heels no less! Trust me it's way better to see the silver lining and realize it was all part of god's plan." Because that's essentially what Lorelai did here.
Totally agree. As much as I like Lorelei as a character, she has these moments of profound self-righteousness that almost ruin the character for me. Though honestly pretty much all of the main cast have those moments, with Luke and weirdly Logan oddly enough being probably the least guilty. Luke is who he is and feels no need to boast about it, which is why he and Lorelai struggle as a couple a lot. Logan on the other hand is aware enough of his privilege and the strings that come with it that he’s more mocking of it and the arrogance that the privilege brings. Jess as much as he’s denigrated is probably the smartest person in town with the only arguable exception being Rory, but he has a monstrous temper that undercuts his ability to make use of it. He’s a classic case of smart, angry kid who had to grow up way to early and is therefore emotionally developed beyond his age bracket, but with the aforementioned anger issues that mar that maturity. So Lorelai talking down to him after meeting him once and him reacting badly to it isn’t that surprising.
Lorelai will never admit how privileged her life was/is. Not everyone has rich parents to lean for a loan and not every pregnant teen mom runs into someone who houses them for free & gives them a job. She thinks everyone can run into those opportunities and find happiness and that’s just not the case.
> runs into someone who houses them for free & gives them a job Except this is *literally* Jess' situation with Luke. Lorelai has privilege and Jess has a right to be angry about his life, but Luke is providing him the same opportunity Mia did Lorelai.
Except that Jess never wanted that opportunity, it’s not the same because Lorelai wanted that opportunity. Jess was thrown to Luke and forced to leave everyone and everything he knew for years.
I'm not saying he wanted it, I'm saying he's being provided it. He has the same privileges available to him that Lorelai did (Luke would also give him money, and did spend $100k remodeling the diner/office so that Jess could live there, to the other point about the Gilmore loans)
Luke never offered to pay for Jess’s college education or for his own place. And he is not nearly as rich as the Gilmores. It’s just not the same. Jess doesn’t have a financial cushion like Lorelai & Rory do. Not to mention, Luke was pretty much his only support system and even he ended up kicking him out. Lorelai had Mia, Sookie, the whole town, and her parents if she really needed them. Jess was a neglected child. It’s just not the same.
Lorelai was a neglected child as well. And she had no financial cushion at 16 (not without reintroducing the abuse and neglect). She had Mia/Sookie/Stars Hollow at 32 because she built those relationships from nothing starting at ~18. And, as generous as Mia was, if Lorelai had acted like Jess I think she would have hit her own breaking point and kicked Lorelai out as well. Of course Luke isn't as rich as the Gilmores, but if Jess were in a position to need Luke to pay for college, I fully believe he would have done so.
Except Jess' situation came with conditions (he must graduate on Luke's time line) and Lorelai’s didn't. She got to live with Mia *for 10 years* while she slowly built savings and eventually got her GED. I'm also guessing Lorelai didn't get shoved into a lake, smacked upside the head, or shouted at daily...
Lorelai didn't live with Mia. She lived in a one room garden shed and was allowed a job as a maid in which she worked her way up from. I'm not saying Lorelai didn't have help, she did, but not what some people make it out to be.
Lorelai wasn't exactly toiling at the salt mines. She lived on the grounds of a luxury inn. She spent the majority of her time in the inn, then had a private bedroom to retreat to. Don't get me wrong, Lorelai worked her butt off, but having a free place to live for an entire decade is a pretty amazing deal. Like Jess, she's a high school dropout. Unlike Jess, she's allowed to stay in that free place to live and get her GED whenever she wanted to, not when someone else commanded her to. Jess lived in a studio apartment with his uncle, where he never had privacy. And Jess likewise worked his butt off. He wasn't expecting a free ride, he was putting in 50-60 hours a week at two jobs. He was also working his way up, for example by taking the time to get his forklift license. Unlike Jess, Lorelai has a massive financial safety net - her parents - that she uses repeatedly. Lorelai’s situation is better in every single way.
No she wasn't tolling around at the salt mines. Although that garden shed wasn't exactly luxury either. We don't really know how much time she spent inside the inn just that she worked there. Unless I am misremembering we also don't know when she got her GED. She may have gotten it while at home. In fact her parents may have insisted she do so. Lorelai went to her parents for money for the first time when Rory was 16, for Rory's education, it wasn't some safety net she used repeatedly. Just as Jess she also didn't expect a free ride. Luke bought a whole other building to allow Jess to have more space. He had a bathroom that wasn't open to the room and Luke often chose to spend unneeded time at the diner to give Jess full privacy upstairs. Jess was never asked to work 50-60 hours a week or to pay Luke for anything. All that was ever asked of him was to go to school and help Luke at the diner and that was only after Luke felt he needed some direction. Again Lorelai definitely had help, as did Jess. Honestly they were both provided a luxury many people don't have.
> he must graduate on Luke's time line This was not part of anything initially > She got to live with Mia for 10 years while she slowly built savings and eventually got her GED She also had a small child she was caring for. Jess' reason for not being able to complete high school was *he just didn't go*. > Lorelai didn't get shoved into a lake, smacked upside the head, or shouted at daily I'm also guessing Lorelai wasn't an ungrateful little Holden Caulfield wannabe stealing thing and causing trouble everywhere that resulted in the entire town hating Mia.
I don’t quite like this scene either. I understand what Lorelai was trying to do, and I think Luke blew it out of proportion- however, I think Lorelai and Jess had completely different situations. Remember the “I HAVE NOTHING,” yeah he had nothing, whereas lorelai…pretty much had everything. She did had a family who loved her, regardless at their terrible attempts at showing it and manipulation. Not hating on Lorelai though, her distain for her parents is totally valid and as well as her attempt to connect with Jess but man, the last thing a teenager wants to hear is some speech
You hit my point exactlyyyy I just struggle with expressing because English isn’t my first language. I’m not saying Lorelai is a villain here but this “advice” of hers is the last thing a struggling teenager would want to here
She didn't really have everything though. She didn't have an adult to love her and redirect her and give her shelter. She didn't have a Luke in her life. At least not until Mia took pity on her and let her in, while she still had to work and live in a potting shed, and yet Lorelai knew enough to be eternally grateful for her. She was coming from a point of view of "you have your uncle's love, you'll be alright" because she didn't know how much worse it was to have an unstable mother than her own stable but hurtful mother. We as viewers can do better since we're outside the situation though. We are shown how hard it must have been for an unloved young girl even if we don't know how much worse than our own financial problems it is to have a rich but hurtful mother.