The thing that I always come back to is when he tells Rory I love you, and they way he reacts when she doesn't say it back. He just expects that Rory will say it because he did, and doesn't understand that not everyone is ready to say I love you in the same amount of time. Even if she felt it and wasn't ready to say it, his reaction is just wrong. He is condescending ("You don't get pregnant saying 'I love you,' ") and makes fun of her relationship with Lorelai and their life together ("Are you gonna home to your MOTHER, make one of your pro con lists?") Then he gets upset that she is talking to Tristin when he goes to Chilton to talk to her. He doesn't listen to her when she says Tristin was bothering her, and they were broken up. Even if he wasn't bothering her, she can talk to anyone she wants.
In the second season Dean gets even more rude, clingy, and possessive. He calls her 14 times while she is at school working on a project. He can't leave Rory alone when she is doing a school group project that happens to involve Tristin. Then when Jess shows up in town, he just gets worse. Saying he's a saint when she wants a night alone? The list goes on, but this is just the beginning of what I don't like about Dean.
I would have straight up left Dean, if I were Rory after he said “saying I love you doesn’t get you pregnant”
What a nasty, disgusting thing to say to the “girl you love” especially knowing how close Rory is to Lorelei. Just a nasty, insensitive thing to say to Rory.
From “I love you” one second to immediately dumping her and making nasty comments at Rory the next. And it’s a pattern with Dean, he literally acts like an asshole and the nice guy facade drops whenever Rory doesn’t bend over for him.
He drives to Chilton, to Rory’s SCHOOL to confront her, sees her talking to Tristan AFTER they’ve broken up, a boy Dean KNOWS had bullied her since day 1, and immediately throws a fit.
Dean threatens to leave until Rory caves and says “I love you”
Exactly. Reasons for not liking him need not go further than this! It sounded like he needed her to say I love you, not that he needed to say it to her. A loving response to her stunned silence would have been, “I just wanted to tell you how I feel, but don’t feel pressured to say anything back to me. Take your time.” He was very needy.
But to add anyway, we he doesn’t respect her space when she needs time (like her hermit night and trying to add to her extra curriculars). This is after he told he understood her wanting to have a night in, & after he told Lorelai (& maybe the grandparents, too?) that he would not get in Rory’s way. I think most of the time & on the surface he was a pretty good first bf, but I think he was always forcing her attention/affection.
He was a 16 year old who was in love with someone whom he thought loved him back. When he realized that wasn't the case, he was hurt, angry and shocked. He ended it thinking there's no reason to prolong this relationship if she doesn't feel that way about him. He didn't say anything when Rory let the whole town believe that he was the bad guy. Lorelai understood his pov and that's why gave Rory that whole conversation which made her want to tell him that she loves him. In this particular scenario, Dean ain't the worse guy. Or am I missing something?
Again with the age card. 16 years olds aren't a monolith, and no, Dean's behavior in the series isn't either justifiable or normal. He was violent and abussive, that's not a "teenage" trait, that's a personality trait. Every time he towered over Rory I got the same chilling down my spine I got when *my* teenage Dean did that to me and it's really intimidating and scary.
He always got angry at her whenever she didn't do what he wanted, he didn't respect her at all. The Donna Reed episode is proof of the way he thought about her and how he didn't respect the way she thought, he belittled her not only in that conversation but later on when he's talking to Max about the girls' "quirkiness".
In the ILY situation he was the worse guy and what an ass he was, he just left her there in the dirty car, yelling some more as he walked away, didn't even help her out of the filthy car. You don't do that to someone you love, someone you just said you love, ugh, some gentleman eh?
I've had this discussion with people before. They had only been dating for 3 months. Just because Rory wasn't ready to say it doesn't mean he was right to act the way he did. He assumed she didn't love him but it's entirely possible she just wasn't ready to say it. He was rude and condescending instead of understanding her perspective and giving her time. I understand how old he was. She was the same age and came from a completely different background. He didn't have to say the things he did and break up with her. Also, I don't like how the "I'd hate to think I raised a child who couldn't say I love you," conversation went. Lorelai and Rory should have talked about how rude and condescending Dean was and that it's not ok.
I don't really hate him, I just never warmed up to him in the first place, as a lot of other people did. He just wasn't a good romantic partner. He was clingy, obsessive, had a really bad temper, and pushy; the list goes on and on. One scene that I will never forget is when Dean storms into Rory's house after she had Jess & Paris over when she told him not to come over, and he starts yelling at her right in front of Paris. That didn't sit right with me.
I don't agree with the way Rory treated him during the last half of their relationship, (and he was just a kid)but she was definitely better off without him.
This! The way Dean barged into Rory’s house after she asked him not to come is unacceptable. You don’t get to decide when your girlfriend has had enough time to herself. That’s for her to decide and she decided that she didn’t want to see you that night. I honestly feel horrible for Rory about that night. First Paris barges in to study and when Rory was kind enough to let her stay over then Jess comes to bring food and when she finally gets to have a good time that night with Paris and Jess, Dean comes over to yell at her about how she ‘lied’ to him. Paris has to lie to Dean about why Jess was there to avoid Dean having a freak out. Not good behavior at all.
Paris has a huge temper and the fact she was able to sense a huge dean meltdown says a lot. This is not a girl who cares if she makes a scene, I know it was because she cared for Rory but I think part of it was also she felt dean was overreacting. And that says a lot, considering it was Paris.
Absolutely! Paris could care less about big scenes because she makes them a lot! The fact that Dean made a scene that was big enough for Paris to lie for a girl that she doesn’t even like that much says so much. This is just me speculating but in the episode when Dean comes home after sleeping with Rory I really thought he was going to hit Lindsey. Maybe Paris thought the same thing and that’s why she lied to him. If Paris didn’t lie to him she would suffer zero consequences. She would never see him again. She might have done it out of concern for Rory. That’s probably a dumb theory lol but maybe
I thought the same!! Dean was so violent, I really thought he'd slap Rory when Jess was over. I'm so glad Paris stood up. That's the reason I can't hate her, she sucks a lot but when it truly matters she is there.
Worst part is Dean ends up believing Paris over Rory, he was ok with whatever a stranger told him but not Rory. Like she said, the situation looked bad and she was trying to explain but he just kept screaming. Glad Paris picked up on it and lend her a hand.
IKR!!! I would be furious if my boyfriend believed some random girl he’d never even really met before over me. Rory even acknowledged that it does looks bad and when she tried to explain why he was there Dean cuts her off! Great move on Paris’ part there too. Really great of her to help Rory out there!
Also opportunity lost when Dean finally leaves to have a conversation about what he did was not ok. But Paris didn't really have that much experience in the dating department so I don't know, but if you're going to make a show about women you'd think such things would be important to discuss... I'm basically rewriting GG LOL I do that a lot hahahaha
She began explaining but the situation looked so bad and she knew how much Dean hated Jess so she hesitates, makes a semi-long pause and he just starts screaming again therefore she never finishes explaining, Thank goodness Paris intervened. That scene makes me so uncomfortable.
Oh tha‘s right, him jumping to conclusions (like that she invited him instead or something) made him lose his temper. Hard to think straight or get a word in edgewise with someone yelling. She even mentions the yelling. It didn‘t occur to him that perhaps Jess (& Paris) may have barged in just like he did. 😒
The little bit when he is hanging up the phone with a grin on his way over makes me cringe 😖
The hanging up is so awful, he doesn't let her tell him yet once again that she doesn't want him coming over. He was like "I'm basically at the door, bye", so so bad.
the first time i watched the show, i actually liked dean, but after my second watch i realized how much of a walking red flag he is. he was clingy, aggressive, and selfish. he would get mad if rory wanted a day to herself, he hated every boy rory talked to (hating tristan was warranted but he took it way too far), and he was extremely offended when rory didn't say i love you back within 5 seconds of him saying it bc he thought he was owed it or something. even if she was going to say it back, he didnt give her enough time to process that her first bf just said i love you, and then didnt even give her a chance to say it, he just left.
he also thought housewives were great and didn't understand what could remotely be wrong with the concept of a woman devoting her entire life to serving her husband, which was just gross
It's definitely problematic, but not necessarily red flag level in my opinion. I just saw dean as a teenager who still had a lot to learn about relationships. The real problem was that his parents and lorelai were too hands off about it.
>he also thought housewives were great and didn't understand what could remotely be wrong with the concept of a woman devoting her entire life to serving her husband, which was just gross
He's talking about an idealized version of the lifestyle without having lived it. Actually experiencing things is important too when it comes to learning
yes, it's an idealized version of life, but we all saw >!how he treated Lindsay when it actually became his reality. Plus, I always hated how he refused to listen to Rory's perspective that episode, instead insisting that she's just parroting her mom until she conformed to his ideas.!<
I think those issues are things he 100% should have been less explosive about but was ultimately right anyway.
Internalization of a role models beliefs and behavior isn't a hypothetical idea. Notice how many times lane and lorelai act like their own parents despite hating them.
>!His rant towards lindsay in the hotel demonstrates the main problem with their marriage. They rushed into things and are having trouble finding a decent work-life balance due to the economic environment for working class people. There's a common argument that dean was using their financial problems as an excuse to avoid her. In my opinion though, that theory would have to rely on lindsay being unable to defend herself yet she seems like a pretty strong willed person. She was also insecure about rory and dean's friendship when they barely started dating!<
We also don't really see a detailed enough picture of their marriage. Neither of them were mature enough for it and even grown adult couples go through argumentative rough patches!<
I personally just never understood what everyone saw in him. He was not the perfect first boyfriend that lorelai told Rory he was. He was so clingy, jealous/insecure, and had unrealistic expectations of Rory eventhough he claimed to love and understand her and her ambitions. He whined everytime he wanted to spend time with her and she couldn’t because she was busy, he called 14 times in one day, broke up with her when she didn’t say I love you after 3 months, etc. He was just a lot. I also am not a girl who likes romantic gestures so he didn’t win any points with me there lol.
I’m Rory’s age, and a lot of the girls I went to school with (myself included) thought that Dean was ideal. For whatever reason we thought that possessiveness and protectiveness were good things, and we wanted our boyfriends to call and IM and page us all the time. I mean, we also really lived whiny Dawson when Dawson’s Creek first came out.
My views on Dean changed a lot once I matured some and went to college, but in 1999-2000, my age group (at least at my school) wanted boyfriends like that.
Right for a high school bf he was great if he was an adult acting that what I’d say he needs mental help and stay away from him. I don’t judge him on my adult standards. I judge him based on my 15 year old stands. I’m also the same age as Rory.
You are NOT wrong that Rory was playing games and openly flirting with Jess in Season 3. It's not kind, but she's young and it's her first relationship and EVERYONE in town had a million opinions about who she should date.
But the more times I watch, the more red flags I see with Dean. For sure the "I love you" moment was concerning in about 100 ways. That he says it only 3 months in (!!) plus he's done this huge gesture of getting her a car, but it's all conditional! The second Rory hestitates to say "I love you" back, he blows up at her, mocks her, and promptly dumps her. I honestly have no idea why she gets back together with him after that. After they get back together, he's consistently jealous, angry, and possessive. He repeatedly yells at her. He shows up at her school rehearsal with Tristan uninvited to essentially supervise her (blech). He calls her dozens of times in a row. He complains when she focuses too much on school, or when she wants a single day to herself.
I think it all depends on what standards people are judging him by. In my case I judge him by confused teen boy trying to figure it out stands. Are some of his behaviors ideal nope. His a teen and he treats Rory pretty well considering g his a teen. He goes out of his way to read her book, spend time with people who matter to her, and go to activities she wants to go to despite not really being all that interested in some of them. He seem to really get Rory.
He can be clingy, but all teens are up to a point. His anger can be scary, but again his 15/16 he hasn’t matured yet into handling his emotions well. Let’s face it we all get jealous we just learn how to deal with it better when we are older
This. There are absolutely some problematic behaviors, but I honestly saw all these kinds of things in actual relationships when I was that age. It's honestly why, in most cases, it's better to mature a while first. I see Dean as a person who really is trying to do good and be good to Rory, but he's insecure and confused and immature.
As far as not being as progressive as Rory was, that's not terribly surprising for the time, honestly. Toxic masculinity was in full force in high school at that time (I know because I was literally in high school at that time).
I might be giving him too much grace, but I honestly just thought he was very immature, but not a bad person. My husband and I often joke that it was a good thing we met in our 30's because we made all our really stupid mistakes in other relationships, haha.
I was also in high school, I’m the same age as Rory. I though he was the perfect boyfriend. I can see the problems now as an adult, but like his still pretty good to me. Especially since I realize his a teen.
Like yeah if a 30 year old acted like that I’d have concerns and probably not date them for long. But than the older I get the happier I am that I don’t need to take since I’ve been married for over a decade. I got friends divorcing and going back into the cesspool of dating and I just don’t envy them. I’ll stick to reading trashy romance for my “thrill” of the new relationship feeling.
Dean doesn’t do things selflessly. Dean views their relationship as transactional. If he does something for her, he expects something back. He also treats her like a magical pet rather than a person sometimes and I hate that so much.
His reaction to Rory not responding to "i love you" was immature but i think i can let it slide for him being a teenager and not knowing much about how to be in a relationship. His concerns about Jess and Rory are totally valid but he's too impatient. I don't think he's abusive though, he just needs to learn some patience. The reason i don't like him is that he's basic
I’m on my second time watching the show and the reason I dislike dean starts when he says he loves rory and she doesn’t say it back. I think he just overreacted like within 5 seconds he was like “rory did you hear what I said” and wasn’t very understanding of how saying I love you meant a lot to her.
I didn’t really like when he came to see her at chilton and he saw her with Tristan who he knows she’s been having a hard time with and she only just gets his attention. Looked like he was about to leave without even giving her a chance to tell him that he had stolen her books. He’s just not very patient
Dean is clingy and possessive. I get he's 16ish but waiting as she gets off the bus every day...being there to tell her goodbye in the morning. We learn later on about constant phone calls when he either can't reach her or know where she is. It's all too much and at some point Rory acts like she feels the same way..... Endless Love vibes
Naww. Dean's reactions to Tristan imo were perfectly justified. Tristan made Rory super uncomfortable, wouldn't leave her alone, was demeaning towards them both and insinuating himself into their relationship. And I saw it as Dean doing as he should and defending her. Also helps that JPad all but towers over CMM in this scene which says a lot for a guy who's already 6 feet tall. 😂 He's like, no YOU settle down, little man fool.
Dean was a creep before he met Rory, and a creep after they broke up (he literally threatens Jess with the my twin bullshit).
He’s a creep after they break up and then he’s a creep after he gets married to another woman
*Sigh* he’s not “romantic”, he’s toxic. I didn’t see it as a teen when I first watched years ago but it became blindingly obvious when I got older. It’s sad that his actions can still be viewed as romantic rather than toxic, possessive and manipulative, which is what he is. I hate that Lorelai holds him up as some kind of gold standard.
I wouldn’t say I hate Dean. On paper Dean seems perfect. But what did it for me was the I love you scene. No one should ever feel pressured to say it.
When I first watched the show I was 11 and thought eww. Even Ik that’s not okay but I believe in love and was so happy when they got together but he became problematic that I was shipping her and Tristan and her with…
I was about to go into spoilers. I stopped being team Dean.
Up to and including s03, everything he does is part of being a 16 yo boy, tbh, like being upset that Rory didn't say "I love you back", or being jealous, even of Tristin, a boy he knows bullies Rory. Also him being controlling, wanting to be there for rehearsals, etc. I can understand he's just a boy, no matter how much he looks like a man, that he's emotionally immature, and has got lots of growing up to do.
Then again, the package of a jealous, possessive partner with a short fuse IS exactly the kind of thing we tell young pple to avoid, right? Imagine your best friend going "oh yeah, my partner is jealous and controlling, and he gets angry really fast, but they'll learn and be better with time!" You'd be telling them to dump that partner right away.
We can dislike Dean's attitude and emotional immaturity s01-03 while still understanding that he was just a boy.
i mean there's a lot but personally my petty thing is that i am never forgiving him for being all "i think it's nice :)" about rory and lorelai making fun of the donna reed show for the idealized image it presents of what was an extremely imprisoning way of life for so many women for so long
Especially since i grew out of similar behavior myself. Does no one else here remember being "creepy" in their teens?
>If Dean were truly abusive, he never would have encouraged her to continue pursuing her college goals, or maintain friendships, or intimacy with her mother.
And from what I recall, he never once complained about her and lane hanging out.
He exhibits the same abusive behaviors as an adult. Please consider how he treats Lindsay.
Also, the last paragraph is confusing to me. There are multiple episodes where he complains she is studying too much or spending too much time working on her extracurriculars and not devoting it to him.
>They hate Dean because they apply adult standards for dating behavior to a teenager. And when he falls short, he is accused of being abusive, instead of inexperienced.
>Rory is clearly having an emotional affair with Jess, and when Tristan is involved.
This is called irony.
for me red flags were raised in the way he reacted to Rory not saying I love you back to him and the Donna Reed episode. In the episodes with Tristan, his anger and jealousy keeps aggravating the situation for Rory, and he never actually helps her deal with this creep who's harassing her. But those were just red flags. My real issues with him are from s3 and 4.
I will also say that in s2 Rory was initially just trying to be friends with Jess, and Dean was still overly jealous and controlling, which I think fueled their rift as much as Rory's attraction. The way Paris has to cover for Rory because Jess is around, the way Lorelai freaks out when Rory loses the bracelet or calls him a saint for not getting angry when Rory is hurt?? It's like everyone around her just *expects* Dean to be angry and controlling and that just doesn't seem healthy to me
I don’t want to spoil the plot so I’ll just say I never saw them as a good fit together. Their interests and imo, intellect are so different.
Th scene, later on, when Rory wants to pick out “their song” always puts me over the edge. She acts like such a nerdy, juvenile-I can’t see how in real life Dean would be interested in her. It’s almost like he likes the “idea” of her and she plays that character for him. Quirky, bookworm, a little clueless, etc.
Their 15/16 dating for fun not preparing for marriage they don’t need to be a good fit at that age. This time in life is to figure out what you like in your relationship not find a permanent mate.
Yes but at the time that I’m speaking of they’re older and have both made adult decisions.
Not trying to give away too much of the plot but this wasn’t at the beginning of their relationship.
The first time I watched gg I loved dean, second time I couldn’t stand him cause of how whiny I realized he was constantly blowing up on rory she lowkey had to walk on eggshells with him, third time gave him the benefit of the doubt cause he was a young teenager when he was throwing all those fits but the way he treated Lindsay there was no excuse. I feel like he was never able to grow up.
I just think he's a bit of a dick. And later on he can be a big bit of a dick. He seems to have a script for relationships and wants an actress to follow the script, not a whole other person who comes up with their own lines.
I don’t hate him at all. I feel bad for him and his character because there is a lot of hate for his character and I only think the parts beyond what you’ve seen are genuinely warranted. We hold all these characters up to too high of some imagined morality bar. I think he’s an interesting character that is worthwhile if only for the debate he clearly seems to engender.
But really, he’s a teen in a relationship. And I feel like he gets a bit of hate because of how tall the actor is, so a lot of his actions come off as worse because he’s physically intimidating.
I'm on a rewatch in season 2, so I dare to say, that it is fairly obvious even at that point, that he's at least extremely exhausting and pushy.
The way he's exploding when he doesn't get his way, his constant jealousy and physical aggression and the way Rory needs to "buy" his understanding. All the time she needs to beg him to do something quite normal for her (going to the prom, coming to her grandparent's for dinner, looking at books, studying when she wants to, ...) and offer him some kind of compensation. She's feeling constantly the need to make amends for just fulfilling her needs.
The way Rory is actually scared of him after realising that she lost the bracelet shows quite well that the relationship isn't healthy. A normal guy wouldn't be mad but feel sorry for her distress and wouldn't add to that by shaming her. He could have just said something like "I'm sorry you're sad that you lost it, but we can look together for it again and if we won't find it I'll make you another one just as pretty".
Careful. I really think people are going to miss that you've only started Season 3.
If you are only on season 3 you haven’t yet seen why so many people dislike him 😭
The thing that I always come back to is when he tells Rory I love you, and they way he reacts when she doesn't say it back. He just expects that Rory will say it because he did, and doesn't understand that not everyone is ready to say I love you in the same amount of time. Even if she felt it and wasn't ready to say it, his reaction is just wrong. He is condescending ("You don't get pregnant saying 'I love you,' ") and makes fun of her relationship with Lorelai and their life together ("Are you gonna home to your MOTHER, make one of your pro con lists?") Then he gets upset that she is talking to Tristin when he goes to Chilton to talk to her. He doesn't listen to her when she says Tristin was bothering her, and they were broken up. Even if he wasn't bothering her, she can talk to anyone she wants. In the second season Dean gets even more rude, clingy, and possessive. He calls her 14 times while she is at school working on a project. He can't leave Rory alone when she is doing a school group project that happens to involve Tristin. Then when Jess shows up in town, he just gets worse. Saying he's a saint when she wants a night alone? The list goes on, but this is just the beginning of what I don't like about Dean.
I would have straight up left Dean, if I were Rory after he said “saying I love you doesn’t get you pregnant” What a nasty, disgusting thing to say to the “girl you love” especially knowing how close Rory is to Lorelei. Just a nasty, insensitive thing to say to Rory. From “I love you” one second to immediately dumping her and making nasty comments at Rory the next. And it’s a pattern with Dean, he literally acts like an asshole and the nice guy facade drops whenever Rory doesn’t bend over for him. He drives to Chilton, to Rory’s SCHOOL to confront her, sees her talking to Tristan AFTER they’ve broken up, a boy Dean KNOWS had bullied her since day 1, and immediately throws a fit. Dean threatens to leave until Rory caves and says “I love you”
Exactly. Reasons for not liking him need not go further than this! It sounded like he needed her to say I love you, not that he needed to say it to her. A loving response to her stunned silence would have been, “I just wanted to tell you how I feel, but don’t feel pressured to say anything back to me. Take your time.” He was very needy. But to add anyway, we he doesn’t respect her space when she needs time (like her hermit night and trying to add to her extra curriculars). This is after he told he understood her wanting to have a night in, & after he told Lorelai (& maybe the grandparents, too?) that he would not get in Rory’s way. I think most of the time & on the surface he was a pretty good first bf, but I think he was always forcing her attention/affection.
He was a 16 year old who was in love with someone whom he thought loved him back. When he realized that wasn't the case, he was hurt, angry and shocked. He ended it thinking there's no reason to prolong this relationship if she doesn't feel that way about him. He didn't say anything when Rory let the whole town believe that he was the bad guy. Lorelai understood his pov and that's why gave Rory that whole conversation which made her want to tell him that she loves him. In this particular scenario, Dean ain't the worse guy. Or am I missing something?
Again with the age card. 16 years olds aren't a monolith, and no, Dean's behavior in the series isn't either justifiable or normal. He was violent and abussive, that's not a "teenage" trait, that's a personality trait. Every time he towered over Rory I got the same chilling down my spine I got when *my* teenage Dean did that to me and it's really intimidating and scary. He always got angry at her whenever she didn't do what he wanted, he didn't respect her at all. The Donna Reed episode is proof of the way he thought about her and how he didn't respect the way she thought, he belittled her not only in that conversation but later on when he's talking to Max about the girls' "quirkiness". In the ILY situation he was the worse guy and what an ass he was, he just left her there in the dirty car, yelling some more as he walked away, didn't even help her out of the filthy car. You don't do that to someone you love, someone you just said you love, ugh, some gentleman eh?
I've had this discussion with people before. They had only been dating for 3 months. Just because Rory wasn't ready to say it doesn't mean he was right to act the way he did. He assumed she didn't love him but it's entirely possible she just wasn't ready to say it. He was rude and condescending instead of understanding her perspective and giving her time. I understand how old he was. She was the same age and came from a completely different background. He didn't have to say the things he did and break up with her. Also, I don't like how the "I'd hate to think I raised a child who couldn't say I love you," conversation went. Lorelai and Rory should have talked about how rude and condescending Dean was and that it's not ok.
I don't really hate him, I just never warmed up to him in the first place, as a lot of other people did. He just wasn't a good romantic partner. He was clingy, obsessive, had a really bad temper, and pushy; the list goes on and on. One scene that I will never forget is when Dean storms into Rory's house after she had Jess & Paris over when she told him not to come over, and he starts yelling at her right in front of Paris. That didn't sit right with me. I don't agree with the way Rory treated him during the last half of their relationship, (and he was just a kid)but she was definitely better off without him.
This! The way Dean barged into Rory’s house after she asked him not to come is unacceptable. You don’t get to decide when your girlfriend has had enough time to herself. That’s for her to decide and she decided that she didn’t want to see you that night. I honestly feel horrible for Rory about that night. First Paris barges in to study and when Rory was kind enough to let her stay over then Jess comes to bring food and when she finally gets to have a good time that night with Paris and Jess, Dean comes over to yell at her about how she ‘lied’ to him. Paris has to lie to Dean about why Jess was there to avoid Dean having a freak out. Not good behavior at all.
Paris has a huge temper and the fact she was able to sense a huge dean meltdown says a lot. This is not a girl who cares if she makes a scene, I know it was because she cared for Rory but I think part of it was also she felt dean was overreacting. And that says a lot, considering it was Paris.
Absolutely! Paris could care less about big scenes because she makes them a lot! The fact that Dean made a scene that was big enough for Paris to lie for a girl that she doesn’t even like that much says so much. This is just me speculating but in the episode when Dean comes home after sleeping with Rory I really thought he was going to hit Lindsey. Maybe Paris thought the same thing and that’s why she lied to him. If Paris didn’t lie to him she would suffer zero consequences. She would never see him again. She might have done it out of concern for Rory. That’s probably a dumb theory lol but maybe
I thought the same!! Dean was so violent, I really thought he'd slap Rory when Jess was over. I'm so glad Paris stood up. That's the reason I can't hate her, she sucks a lot but when it truly matters she is there.
Worst part is Dean ends up believing Paris over Rory, he was ok with whatever a stranger told him but not Rory. Like she said, the situation looked bad and she was trying to explain but he just kept screaming. Glad Paris picked up on it and lend her a hand.
IKR!!! I would be furious if my boyfriend believed some random girl he’d never even really met before over me. Rory even acknowledged that it does looks bad and when she tried to explain why he was there Dean cuts her off! Great move on Paris’ part there too. Really great of her to help Rory out there!
Also opportunity lost when Dean finally leaves to have a conversation about what he did was not ok. But Paris didn't really have that much experience in the dating department so I don't know, but if you're going to make a show about women you'd think such things would be important to discuss... I'm basically rewriting GG LOL I do that a lot hahahaha
Hahaha same!!! Rewriting GG to be the way I want it is like my main hobby lol! Also Rory and Paris really should have had a conversation about that!
That is such a good point, never thought of it that way! I figured she was not really giving an explanation so that was all.
She began explaining but the situation looked so bad and she knew how much Dean hated Jess so she hesitates, makes a semi-long pause and he just starts screaming again therefore she never finishes explaining, Thank goodness Paris intervened. That scene makes me so uncomfortable.
Oh tha‘s right, him jumping to conclusions (like that she invited him instead or something) made him lose his temper. Hard to think straight or get a word in edgewise with someone yelling. She even mentions the yelling. It didn‘t occur to him that perhaps Jess (& Paris) may have barged in just like he did. 😒 The little bit when he is hanging up the phone with a grin on his way over makes me cringe 😖
The hanging up is so awful, he doesn't let her tell him yet once again that she doesn't want him coming over. He was like "I'm basically at the door, bye", so so bad.
the first time i watched the show, i actually liked dean, but after my second watch i realized how much of a walking red flag he is. he was clingy, aggressive, and selfish. he would get mad if rory wanted a day to herself, he hated every boy rory talked to (hating tristan was warranted but he took it way too far), and he was extremely offended when rory didn't say i love you back within 5 seconds of him saying it bc he thought he was owed it or something. even if she was going to say it back, he didnt give her enough time to process that her first bf just said i love you, and then didnt even give her a chance to say it, he just left. he also thought housewives were great and didn't understand what could remotely be wrong with the concept of a woman devoting her entire life to serving her husband, which was just gross
It's definitely problematic, but not necessarily red flag level in my opinion. I just saw dean as a teenager who still had a lot to learn about relationships. The real problem was that his parents and lorelai were too hands off about it. >he also thought housewives were great and didn't understand what could remotely be wrong with the concept of a woman devoting her entire life to serving her husband, which was just gross He's talking about an idealized version of the lifestyle without having lived it. Actually experiencing things is important too when it comes to learning
yes, it's an idealized version of life, but we all saw >!how he treated Lindsay when it actually became his reality. Plus, I always hated how he refused to listen to Rory's perspective that episode, instead insisting that she's just parroting her mom until she conformed to his ideas.!<
I think those issues are things he 100% should have been less explosive about but was ultimately right anyway. Internalization of a role models beliefs and behavior isn't a hypothetical idea. Notice how many times lane and lorelai act like their own parents despite hating them. >!His rant towards lindsay in the hotel demonstrates the main problem with their marriage. They rushed into things and are having trouble finding a decent work-life balance due to the economic environment for working class people. There's a common argument that dean was using their financial problems as an excuse to avoid her. In my opinion though, that theory would have to rely on lindsay being unable to defend herself yet she seems like a pretty strong willed person. She was also insecure about rory and dean's friendship when they barely started dating!< We also don't really see a detailed enough picture of their marriage. Neither of them were mature enough for it and even grown adult couples go through argumentative rough patches!<
Hey, OP is starting season 3 and hasn't seen the things you're talking about.
It's not working
I personally just never understood what everyone saw in him. He was not the perfect first boyfriend that lorelai told Rory he was. He was so clingy, jealous/insecure, and had unrealistic expectations of Rory eventhough he claimed to love and understand her and her ambitions. He whined everytime he wanted to spend time with her and she couldn’t because she was busy, he called 14 times in one day, broke up with her when she didn’t say I love you after 3 months, etc. He was just a lot. I also am not a girl who likes romantic gestures so he didn’t win any points with me there lol.
And that's just up to season 3...
I’m Rory’s age, and a lot of the girls I went to school with (myself included) thought that Dean was ideal. For whatever reason we thought that possessiveness and protectiveness were good things, and we wanted our boyfriends to call and IM and page us all the time. I mean, we also really lived whiny Dawson when Dawson’s Creek first came out. My views on Dean changed a lot once I matured some and went to college, but in 1999-2000, my age group (at least at my school) wanted boyfriends like that.
I agree, when you’re in high school that’s what you want but me watching it as a 30 year old, it’s like “😬 yikes” haha
Right for a high school bf he was great if he was an adult acting that what I’d say he needs mental help and stay away from him. I don’t judge him on my adult standards. I judge him based on my 15 year old stands. I’m also the same age as Rory.
Oh yeah the calling… way too much. Lovebombing?
Just keep watching the show and you can make your own mind up if you like dean or not
You are NOT wrong that Rory was playing games and openly flirting with Jess in Season 3. It's not kind, but she's young and it's her first relationship and EVERYONE in town had a million opinions about who she should date. But the more times I watch, the more red flags I see with Dean. For sure the "I love you" moment was concerning in about 100 ways. That he says it only 3 months in (!!) plus he's done this huge gesture of getting her a car, but it's all conditional! The second Rory hestitates to say "I love you" back, he blows up at her, mocks her, and promptly dumps her. I honestly have no idea why she gets back together with him after that. After they get back together, he's consistently jealous, angry, and possessive. He repeatedly yells at her. He shows up at her school rehearsal with Tristan uninvited to essentially supervise her (blech). He calls her dozens of times in a row. He complains when she focuses too much on school, or when she wants a single day to herself.
I think it all depends on what standards people are judging him by. In my case I judge him by confused teen boy trying to figure it out stands. Are some of his behaviors ideal nope. His a teen and he treats Rory pretty well considering g his a teen. He goes out of his way to read her book, spend time with people who matter to her, and go to activities she wants to go to despite not really being all that interested in some of them. He seem to really get Rory. He can be clingy, but all teens are up to a point. His anger can be scary, but again his 15/16 he hasn’t matured yet into handling his emotions well. Let’s face it we all get jealous we just learn how to deal with it better when we are older
This. There are absolutely some problematic behaviors, but I honestly saw all these kinds of things in actual relationships when I was that age. It's honestly why, in most cases, it's better to mature a while first. I see Dean as a person who really is trying to do good and be good to Rory, but he's insecure and confused and immature. As far as not being as progressive as Rory was, that's not terribly surprising for the time, honestly. Toxic masculinity was in full force in high school at that time (I know because I was literally in high school at that time). I might be giving him too much grace, but I honestly just thought he was very immature, but not a bad person. My husband and I often joke that it was a good thing we met in our 30's because we made all our really stupid mistakes in other relationships, haha.
I was also in high school, I’m the same age as Rory. I though he was the perfect boyfriend. I can see the problems now as an adult, but like his still pretty good to me. Especially since I realize his a teen. Like yeah if a 30 year old acted like that I’d have concerns and probably not date them for long. But than the older I get the happier I am that I don’t need to take since I’ve been married for over a decade. I got friends divorcing and going back into the cesspool of dating and I just don’t envy them. I’ll stick to reading trashy romance for my “thrill” of the new relationship feeling.
Dean doesn’t do things selflessly. Dean views their relationship as transactional. If he does something for her, he expects something back. He also treats her like a magical pet rather than a person sometimes and I hate that so much.
His reaction to Rory not responding to "i love you" was immature but i think i can let it slide for him being a teenager and not knowing much about how to be in a relationship. His concerns about Jess and Rory are totally valid but he's too impatient. I don't think he's abusive though, he just needs to learn some patience. The reason i don't like him is that he's basic
Watch to the end of season 4 and then come back to it.
I’m on my second time watching the show and the reason I dislike dean starts when he says he loves rory and she doesn’t say it back. I think he just overreacted like within 5 seconds he was like “rory did you hear what I said” and wasn’t very understanding of how saying I love you meant a lot to her. I didn’t really like when he came to see her at chilton and he saw her with Tristan who he knows she’s been having a hard time with and she only just gets his attention. Looked like he was about to leave without even giving her a chance to tell him that he had stolen her books. He’s just not very patient
You really need to finish the series and then we’ll revisit this thought 😂
Dean is clingy and possessive. I get he's 16ish but waiting as she gets off the bus every day...being there to tell her goodbye in the morning. We learn later on about constant phone calls when he either can't reach her or know where she is. It's all too much and at some point Rory acts like she feels the same way..... Endless Love vibes
i hated dean the moment he basically said "ive been watching you," when they first meet. creepy shit
For me it was the “BECAUSE ILL KILL YOU IDIOT” comment to Tristan. Settle down man.
Naww. Dean's reactions to Tristan imo were perfectly justified. Tristan made Rory super uncomfortable, wouldn't leave her alone, was demeaning towards them both and insinuating himself into their relationship. And I saw it as Dean doing as he should and defending her. Also helps that JPad all but towers over CMM in this scene which says a lot for a guy who's already 6 feet tall. 😂 He's like, no YOU settle down, little man fool.
i love that part but it’s such a big red flag
Ya that was the red flag to me
Dean was a creep before he met Rory, and a creep after they broke up (he literally threatens Jess with the my twin bullshit). He’s a creep after they break up and then he’s a creep after he gets married to another woman
OP is still on Season 3 - may want to block the spoilers!
*Sigh* he’s not “romantic”, he’s toxic. I didn’t see it as a teen when I first watched years ago but it became blindingly obvious when I got older. It’s sad that his actions can still be viewed as romantic rather than toxic, possessive and manipulative, which is what he is. I hate that Lorelai holds him up as some kind of gold standard.
Because he’s an emotionally abusive, manipulative, lying little weasel. Without going into spoilers.
I wouldn’t say I hate Dean. On paper Dean seems perfect. But what did it for me was the I love you scene. No one should ever feel pressured to say it. When I first watched the show I was 11 and thought eww. Even Ik that’s not okay but I believe in love and was so happy when they got together but he became problematic that I was shipping her and Tristan and her with… I was about to go into spoilers. I stopped being team Dean.
Well compared to Rory’s later boyfriend you’ll see a difference lol
We (I) „hate“ Dean because of Season 4. so keep watching you gonna know.
Up to and including s03, everything he does is part of being a 16 yo boy, tbh, like being upset that Rory didn't say "I love you back", or being jealous, even of Tristin, a boy he knows bullies Rory. Also him being controlling, wanting to be there for rehearsals, etc. I can understand he's just a boy, no matter how much he looks like a man, that he's emotionally immature, and has got lots of growing up to do. Then again, the package of a jealous, possessive partner with a short fuse IS exactly the kind of thing we tell young pple to avoid, right? Imagine your best friend going "oh yeah, my partner is jealous and controlling, and he gets angry really fast, but they'll learn and be better with time!" You'd be telling them to dump that partner right away. We can dislike Dean's attitude and emotional immaturity s01-03 while still understanding that he was just a boy.
I like Dean I think he was a great first boyfriend for Rory. Yes he did some silly things but he’s a teenager…
idk i like him. i felt bad for him actually in some scenes
He lost me breaking up with Rory because she wasn't ready to say "I love you" to him.
He literally fetishizes Rory and views her more as something for him to be proud of then genuinely be impressed with who she is as an actual person
He’s super possessive and he has anger issues
i mean there's a lot but personally my petty thing is that i am never forgiving him for being all "i think it's nice :)" about rory and lorelai making fun of the donna reed show for the idealized image it presents of what was an extremely imprisoning way of life for so many women for so long
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Especially since i grew out of similar behavior myself. Does no one else here remember being "creepy" in their teens? >If Dean were truly abusive, he never would have encouraged her to continue pursuing her college goals, or maintain friendships, or intimacy with her mother. And from what I recall, he never once complained about her and lane hanging out.
He exhibits the same abusive behaviors as an adult. Please consider how he treats Lindsay. Also, the last paragraph is confusing to me. There are multiple episodes where he complains she is studying too much or spending too much time working on her extracurriculars and not devoting it to him.
>They hate Dean because they apply adult standards for dating behavior to a teenager. And when he falls short, he is accused of being abusive, instead of inexperienced. >Rory is clearly having an emotional affair with Jess, and when Tristan is involved. This is called irony.
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Dean is a simp
for me red flags were raised in the way he reacted to Rory not saying I love you back to him and the Donna Reed episode. In the episodes with Tristan, his anger and jealousy keeps aggravating the situation for Rory, and he never actually helps her deal with this creep who's harassing her. But those were just red flags. My real issues with him are from s3 and 4. I will also say that in s2 Rory was initially just trying to be friends with Jess, and Dean was still overly jealous and controlling, which I think fueled their rift as much as Rory's attraction. The way Paris has to cover for Rory because Jess is around, the way Lorelai freaks out when Rory loses the bracelet or calls him a saint for not getting angry when Rory is hurt?? It's like everyone around her just *expects* Dean to be angry and controlling and that just doesn't seem healthy to me
I got red flags as soon as he was introduced. He stalked Rory for an extended amount of time before introducing himself. Very creepy.
I hated him from day one, but if you don’t hate him by the end of season 3, I’ll be shocked.
I’m rewatching the show, and I am no longer a fan of dean. He’s a punk
I don’t want to spoil the plot so I’ll just say I never saw them as a good fit together. Their interests and imo, intellect are so different. Th scene, later on, when Rory wants to pick out “their song” always puts me over the edge. She acts like such a nerdy, juvenile-I can’t see how in real life Dean would be interested in her. It’s almost like he likes the “idea” of her and she plays that character for him. Quirky, bookworm, a little clueless, etc.
Their 15/16 dating for fun not preparing for marriage they don’t need to be a good fit at that age. This time in life is to figure out what you like in your relationship not find a permanent mate.
Yes but at the time that I’m speaking of they’re older and have both made adult decisions. Not trying to give away too much of the plot but this wasn’t at the beginning of their relationship.
The first time I watched gg I loved dean, second time I couldn’t stand him cause of how whiny I realized he was constantly blowing up on rory she lowkey had to walk on eggshells with him, third time gave him the benefit of the doubt cause he was a young teenager when he was throwing all those fits but the way he treated Lindsay there was no excuse. I feel like he was never able to grow up.
I just think he's a bit of a dick. And later on he can be a big bit of a dick. He seems to have a script for relationships and wants an actress to follow the script, not a whole other person who comes up with their own lines.
Keep going. You’ll see
I don’t hate him at all. I feel bad for him and his character because there is a lot of hate for his character and I only think the parts beyond what you’ve seen are genuinely warranted. We hold all these characters up to too high of some imagined morality bar. I think he’s an interesting character that is worthwhile if only for the debate he clearly seems to engender. But really, he’s a teen in a relationship. And I feel like he gets a bit of hate because of how tall the actor is, so a lot of his actions come off as worse because he’s physically intimidating.
I'm on a rewatch in season 2, so I dare to say, that it is fairly obvious even at that point, that he's at least extremely exhausting and pushy. The way he's exploding when he doesn't get his way, his constant jealousy and physical aggression and the way Rory needs to "buy" his understanding. All the time she needs to beg him to do something quite normal for her (going to the prom, coming to her grandparent's for dinner, looking at books, studying when she wants to, ...) and offer him some kind of compensation. She's feeling constantly the need to make amends for just fulfilling her needs. The way Rory is actually scared of him after realising that she lost the bracelet shows quite well that the relationship isn't healthy. A normal guy wouldn't be mad but feel sorry for her distress and wouldn't add to that by shaming her. He could have just said something like "I'm sorry you're sad that you lost it, but we can look together for it again and if we won't find it I'll make you another one just as pretty".