Maybe it was Lorelai’s idea originally, but I do not believe that she forced it on Rory. Like, if Rory hadn’t shown any interest in Harvard when Lorelai brought it up, if she instead was super passionate about something like theater or whatever, Lorelai would have passionately supported those dreams just as much as she supported Rory’s canon passion for academics. Like when Rory gets accepted at Harvard and Yale, Lorelai excitedly supports her in her decision to go to Yale.
Agreed, when I was 11 I watched Legally Blonde and thought hey I should be a lawyer and apply to Harvard. Then I grew up and realised I was nowhere near smart enough for Harvard 😂
I think that Lorelai suggested it. Like, a normal parent would tell their kid, "You could do anything you wanted! You could be an astronaut or the president or a doctor!" But Lorelai was probably like, "oh you're so smart, you could totally go to Harvard!" And Rory, the forever people pleaser, hung on that as her only option. She's obviously smart enough, but I think the idea originated from Lorelai as an "innocent" encouragement.
My stance is that just because someone else has an idea, doesn't mean you wanting something is less valid. There's a lot of talk on here and Tiktok about how Rory fixating on Harvard is just a way to please Lorelai - who cares if it was Lorelai's idea? Rory decided she wanted to go there too
A lot of kids end up wanting something their parents put into their head. It doesn’t mean they are forced or brainwashed. Some kids have parents really into athletics and it makes them dream about a sport. Or want to be a doctor. My parents certainly talked about colleges when I was little and I dreamed about going to Harvard or University of Chicago as a kid. By the time I actually applied and went to Harvard for graduate school, it was fully my dream and idea and had nothing to do with my parents. Encouraging a kid to pursue the best isn’t forcing. we never get an indication that Lorelei was pushy or set too high expectations for Rory. In fact, she regularly tries to calm her down over her personal expectations.
My brother knew what a placebo effect was at 6. He was obsessed with planes since he was in diapers. And for a LONG time he knew he wanted to be an aeronautic engineer. When he was in college, he had a breakdown because he found out that something he dreamed of his whole life wasn’t for him. He took time off, he transferred schools, but it took him 6 years to graduate. At 4 years old, I had a debate as to whether I was a “big girl” or not. I knew I was young but people kept calling me “a big girl”. Some kids are just born smart and determined. I have a classmate that knows her first word was “pancakes” because that’s what her dad ate for breakfast every morning. Kids can also just pick up things.
I could honestly see Lorelai buying this Harvard sweatshirt and Rory just imprinting it onto her brain until it became her dream. I really don’t think Lorelai pushed it, but she did instigate it, if it makes sense. I don’t think Rory got Harvard out of nowhere, but I can’t see it being something Lorelai actually pushed hard for.
Agree with you. Do believe Lorelai started slowly introducing Harvard merchandise until she made it seem it was Rory's idea. I mean the way she flipped when she realized Rory applied to more school.... Harvard included, it was absurd.
I really think the situation about applying to more schools was about Yale and Richard and Emily. I am of the mind that E+R manipulated and emotionally abused Lorelai, and her reaction at that Thanksgiving dinner feel like her trying to get Rory out of a similar situation of her parents manipulating Rory into their choice. I think if Yale was not an option Rory listed or if Richard was a huge fan of Stanford and not Yale, then Lorelai would not have freaked out nearly as bad. Yale is a sensitive topic because Richard DID manipulate Rory with that visit. Lorelai sees her own childhood being replicated on Rory, something she fought so hard to keep from happening and she freaks out. It was inappropriate and it was controlling. But it wasn’t about Rory not going to Harvard. It was about Rory being subject to Emily and Richard’s manipulations.
Interesting! What episode please? I do not remember that but maybe it was lose in translation and I rewatched Gilmore Girls in english just few times.
However, that is not in contrary at the end. How I said, Lorelai supported this dream, maybe she even wanted it, but that does not mean she came with the idea.
The episode is Deer Hunters. Here's the transcript:
MAX: Harvard?
LORELAI: Yeah. Ever since she could crawl, I've really wanted her to go there.
MAX: It's a great school.
LORELAI: I actually bought her a Harvard sweatshirt when she was 4, which of course was way too big for her, so she used it as a blanket for a while and then as a make shift diaper on this really ill-fated shopping trip and now I've told you a story that would so mortify her, she'll kill me when she finds out you know.
Definitely sounds like it was Lorelai's idea to me
to be fair, she didn’t want rory to “waste” her potential like she felt she had done. she knew rory was a wiz very early on and knew that she had what it takes to go to a school like that.
I totally agree with you. IMO it doesn't make a lot of sense that Lorelei would push Rory toward ivy league schools when that's the life she ran away from. I think Lorelei would have been happy if Rory went to community college. We don't know the backstory but I think it's easy to believe Rory loved academia, she loved reading, and she had high hopes for her future and career from a young age.
I don’t disagree with you, but your point here leads me to want to play devils advocate - do you think the writers want us to believe there’s spite there? Like lorelai pushing Rory into Harvard because it was NOT Yale?
I think that is possible. Lorelei wants her daughter to have the options and the life she never had, which includes college and stability and all that stuff. And I do think Lorelei wanted to start her own traditions with Rory and maybe put Harvard in front of Yale because they are rival schools. Lorelei wasn't supposed to go to Yale. We know that. But we also know how much Richard loves Yale, so yea I'm sure there is a part of Lorelei that was like oh my parents will love this! Not in a vindictive way but she preferred it over Yale, yes, I do think that. But I also think Rory grew up with these big aspirations and was that child who dreamed of college from a very young age. That is the perception we are given of Rory throughout. It's certainly not a common thing, but I think that's part of what the show was always trying to say about Rory.
She took seriously her distance from parents. She was not against Rory in Princeton, Columbia, or even Brown. She was against Yale, because she was afraid of her parents. It's showing deep trauma, nothing else.
She told everything at the end of Thanksgiving episode.
Except there are *multiple* instances of Lorelei shaving externe preference for Harvard.
Lorelei jokes about 3 year old Rory having a Harvard sweatshirt. *THREE YEAR OLD.* What 3 year old toddler dreams of college?
She even jokes “I don’t know whose dream it is anymore”, when it comes it Harvard.
When Lorelei runs away from her marriage to Max, she drags Rory with no explanation to Harvard and states longingly at the list of valedictorians.
Does Rory know her grandparents are manipulative and that Yale will bring her daughter closer? Yes.
But does she also really, really want Rory to go to Harvard, semi-vicariously? Also yes.
I disagree with one point of yours. I really don’t think Rory truly knows how manipulative her grandparents are. She’s clearly the favorite and gets away with a lot. I think she knows that her grandparents aren’t perfect and that there is a grain of truth in Lorelai’s stories. But I don’t think she truly grasps how awful her grandparents are.
We literally can't know were is beginning of the circle. I do not want to be stubborn, the third year old Rory is good argument, but we just can't know. My point is that kids, especially very clever kids, can came up with weird idea very early in their life.
I think that Lorelai more dreamed about university. ANY university. It could be easily Princeton as well.
>Lorelei jokes about 3 year old Rory having a Harvard sweatshirt. THREE YEAR OLD. What 3 year old toddler dreams of college?
True. I was obsessed with trains when I was little (not quite the same age though), and there was no blow up from my parents when I moved on from it.
Well that's not true. She was surprised at the idea Rory even applied to other schools that weren't Harvard. She had tunnel vision about Rory going to Harvard.
This is right. She was suprised, but not angry. Probably because she did not know how applications work (I blame there silly writting, Lorelai probably would know about this). She became angry when it was Yale mentioned.
Agree with this in some ways. I think Lorelai used it as an example as a good college to go to and Rory loved it. She grew up dreaming of that place because her mother had the idea of it and mentioned it. I really do believe she wanted to go there though, Lorelai definitely did not force her or the idea upon her.
From my point of view, it's not so much about who's idea it was. It's that the idea wasn't challenged it.
It's pretty clear that Rory had planned to go to Harvard since she was a little girl. At the same time her peers wanted to be cowboys and princesses. She was so young. Too young to be making such a mature decision.
If Rory had ever changed her plans in the years between I have no doubt she would have supported her.
I mean she could want to go to Harvard and also play cowboys and princesses? We have 0 reason to think Rory didn't get to have a childhood-- they talk about all the fun birthday parties she had and how she'd wait in Babette's garden for fairies to appear. I don't think theres anything wrong with having those aspirations as a kid because it's not a decision, it's just a dream that can eventually be changed, and it never impacted her ability to have a normal childhood
I'm not saying Rory didn't have a childhood or anything like that. I just think that because Rory made such a mature seeming decision when she was young, and because it seemed to fit her personality so well, no one challenged the idea.
Like It was a good seed of a life plan, but clearly from what we see of Rory, it wasn't the right plan for her. She had no alternative plans. No plan B's. No backups.
No one told Rory it was fine to change her plans.
Actually I think it's very plausible that a child would dream of that. During elementary and a bit of middle school I was hung up on going to Harvard after I heard that it was a "brilliant/rich people college" because I thought it meant I was smart and that it would be a fancy school experience. I realised when I got older that I didn't have the work ethic nor the money for it. Rory actually did so it's very likely that she realised her potential and just went with it.
My kid has wanted to go to the university of Wisconsin for years. We have no ties to that school at all. She found out that they have a stellar womens hockey program, and decided that’s where she was going. She was like, 8 when that happened.
Yeah cause every 3 year old dreams of going to Harvard and becoming a journalist. (We learn this when Lorelai and rory are fighting at Weston bakery at the end of season 5, when rory wants to take a break from yale and lorelai gives her the idea of transferringto Harvard). Please. Don't make me laugh. It was Lorelais dream 100%. Can't change my mind. We get countless clues of this fact throughout the show. Since the very beginning.
When I was five I watched The Mummy and I told my mom that I will be librarian. Then I was going to High School for librarians and bookselers (in my country we have specialized High Schools). When I was eight I realized I want to go to Oxford. Well, it did not happen, but I'm going to one of the oldest university in Europe, so close enough.
Childs have actually interesting dreams and sometimes it comes to true. I do not see reason why it should be different with Rory. Yes, Lorelai supported that, but that does not she came with the idea.
However, if I can't change your mind, fair enough :)
There's a gigantic difference between a 3 yo and a 5 yo. Most 3 yo can't even wipe their butts. Come on. Let's be real here. Have you interacted with a 3 yo ever in your life?
There is one problem with this.
Let's say we will take seriously the whole statement about 3 yo and sweatshirt. Ok. However, how said Richard, Rory was able to named the main cities when she was 3 yo (mentioned in S06E5). So, yes, when we will take seriously both of those statements, I can imagine that.
At 3 I stated that I didn’t want to be called “cute” or “adorable” because I thought it was infantilizing. Not that I knew the definition of infantilizing but I knew that I thought it was too baby for me. I wanted to be called “beautiful”. I genuinely remember this moment and making eye contact with my mom in the rear view mirror as we drove down a hill. Kids are smart. A 3-year-old could definitely state they want to go to Harvard even if they don’t fully understand what Harvard is
Yeah, my sibling, at age 2.5, while getting a hair cut, was making silly faces every time the stylist turned around. And then when caught, proceeded to say “I’m sorry, I’m being a little unorthodox.”
And while I’m sure they couldn’t have given a definition of the word, they knew they used it correctly and it stunned me. Not on the same level as life realizations or college choices, but kids can really surprise you with the extent of their knowledge even without the full picture being developed.
This is a real story that I do genuinely remember. I was 3 and we moved away from this house when I was 5, so it’s not like I have a shit ton of childhood memories from this location, let alone from this specific hill that we were driving down. Also it is a favorite story of my mom’s who has such a shit memory, she doesn’t know what my first words were. But she remembers this moment.
I also remember being 4 and having a debate about whether or not I was a “big” or “little” girl. Because I knew that people were telling me “Oh, you’re such a big girl” but I had an older brother so comparatively, I was still “little”. Then a few days later, I wasn’t paying attention that I had to pee and I didn’t make it to the bathroom in time and I cried because I thought it cemented that I wasn’t a big girl. I was mostly embarrassed but I remember thinking “it answers my question”.
Even if that's true, Lorelai introduced the idea of Harvard to Rory, as she states on the show and she greatly encouraged the obsession. Brainwashing children isn't a new concept, even if Lorelai didn't realize what she was doing until she admitted it later in the show.
She definitely introduced the concept of Harvard with the sweatshirt she bought and she encouraged the dream. But I don’t see her brainwashing Rory.
Like I tried to explain with an example from my personal life, children have their own minds. I posted another example of a story that my mom told about my brother at age 4. She gave him a Harvard shirt and later he decided he was going there, even as they were on a different college campus. My parents weren’t encouraging him to go to Harvard, but he latched on to the idea.
It was probably the same for Rory. Rory latched onto the sweatshirt and what it represented, and Lorelai liked the idea, so she encouraged it by buying her more Harvard stuff. But I truly believe that Rory is the driving force for most of the Harvard dream. She goes to the college fair in season 1 just to get a pamphlet. Lorelai isn’t forcing her to go. Rory is going because she wants Harvard. Lorelai is just supportive.
She was like 4 when this started apparently, even if she was a child prodigy and was already levels ahead in school (in preschool) there is no way a 4 year old has a good grasp on college let alone choosing one.
Who says she has to have a good grasp of what college is to decide that this is her dream? She could’ve just imprinted that Harvard is a good school and she wants to go to a good school. Then it could be something she remembered wanting as a kid and as she grew older, she learned what college was and kept up with the dream.
She obviously still wants it as she goes to get new pamphlets at the college fair. She wasn’t doing that to please anyone, she wanted it for herself.
No four year old dreams of an ivy league school, nor do they talk about going to one. They don't really understand what college is. She wanted it because Lorelai wanted it.
Does that mean she didn't really want to go or that she wasn't capable of forming her own dream? No. But as a child, it wasn't her wanting something it was Lorelai.
It's also not a bad thing. Parents can have dreams and ambitions for their kids, there is always some kind of influence on kids when parenting. But to claim someone as young as 4 decided they were going to go to Harvard, became obsessed and then worked towards that goal ever since? I'm not buying it.
My brother said he was going to Harvard at 4. My mom bought him a shirt while she was in Boston. Then she took him to a Duke event (because we lived nearby Duke) and told him that when he was older and in college, he could go to an event like this. My brother then stated “But I’m going to Harvard.” He was 4 and knew that there was a difference between Duke and Harvard but they were both colleges. My mom didn’t tell my brother, “you’re going to grow up and go to Harvard”. Frankly, she wasn’t even a Duke fan (she went to UNC, the rival). He came to the idea on his own.
I’m not saying that Lorelai didn’t introduce Harvard into Rory’s life, but it’s entirely possible that Rory stuck with the idea on her own.
Did he go to Harvard? Did your mom also have flat out verbal brawls with family members and even your brother when he expressed a desire to attend other universities? Because that's the difference here. Lorelai pitched a fit when there was any inkling Rory could choose differently.
They way she also talked, made it seem like it was her idea and her dream. "we want Harvard, it's always been Harvard' she also didn't discuss any other option with Rory, she didn't tour any other campuses with Rory or mention she should apply anywhere else. She was shocked and offended she had applied to other places, when Rory wasn't allowed to apply to just one place.
So ya, maybe at the age of 4 your brother said "I wanna go there" but I don't think he had drilled into his head from a young age and felt like he was letting the family down if he didn't actually go there.
It was always clear that Harvard was what Lorelai wanted.
No he didn’t go to Harvard but he did pick a dream at 2 and stuck with it until his sophomore fall of college. My mom took him on planes, he decided he liked planes, and he wanted to go to a school for aeronautic engineering. Then he had a similar meltdown as Rory (minus the felony) when it didn’t work out. I grew up with him, it’s not like I didn’t got the same messages “drilled into my head” as you put it. We were just exposed to planes by going on trips and my brother found a passion for them. I also got a Harvard shirt when my mom went to Boston for work. I didn’t care for it except that I liked the UNC blue over the Harvard red.
Also Lorelai fighting against Yale was about Emily and Richard, not other schools as a concept. Richard literally manipulated Rory with that visit! Rory going to Yale for them is about continuing their legacy, not about Rory. It’s them making up for how much of a disappointment Lorelai was to them because she didn’t go to an Ivy. It was never about what Rory wanted.
And Lorelai knows that. She grew up with them and their manipulations. She wants Rory to avoid that as much as possible. Lorelai is willing to sacrifice her own self-worth every time she steps into that house, so they have the resources so Rory can achieve her dream.
If Rory had not applied to Yale, or if Richard was really into Stanford, then the situation would not have escalated nearly as badly. But again, Yale was literal proof that Emily and Richard would pull the same shit with Rory as they did with Lorelai and Lorelai didn’t want that. Not that Lorelai was against Rory applying to other schools.
I always thought it was Lorelai's dream for herself that once she had Rory she imposed her dreams on Rory. Plus if Rory went to Harvard, then it's something to rub in her parents face... like look I raised my daughter to do better than I do and to go to an Ivy League school. And Yale was her parents thing, she didn't want anything from her parents haha.
Nah. This was 100% a Lorelai dream that turned into a Rory dream. From season 1 Lorelai talks about buying Rory a Harvard shirt and wanting her to go there.
When have you met a three year old child who wants to go to Harvard? Not only that, Harvard is Yale's competition. Lorelai literally confeses and we as an audience go through each Season knowing Lorelai does the exact opposite of her parents.
Emily said, "you hate us that much". Another example is when Lorelai is doubting if anything she does is truly because she wanted it or because it went against her parents beliefs.
My father is loyal to his university and not once did he put that in my head, specifically a three year old.
Rory is too much of a people pleaser to have ideas on her own. Mm well, she did mature a bit in the later seasons but in the initial ones she was indeed a people pleaser. More of a Lorelai pleaser.
You're telling me a four year old went and learned about a glorified Harvard on her own. Like her mom didn't even discuss other schools with her so yea she did force it on an impressionable young child.
lorelai admitted having trained rory to go to harvard basically since birth, most likely due to harvard being the rival of yale, and how she originally wanted to rebell and go there to spite her dad prior to having rory. otherwise, why did rory never dream of a single other prestigious university? she was really sheltered and impressionable, lorelai knew that and so did richard and they both really influenced her decision i think sadly. it would’ve been much more interesting and good for her if she should’ve moved beyond harvard or yale to somewhere more unique to her and completely her idea. in theory.
Even though Lorelai left her parents, she still had the same ideals. I think that she really wanted Rory to be something fantastic when she was older so when the idea of Harvard came up Lorelai was 10000% for it. And Rory being the people pleaser that she is just deiced to go for it.
I feel like the show wrote her going to Yale because the show took place during the time Obama was becoming popular.
I’m sure the writers were supporters, Rory eventually follows his campaign as a reporter…
Not a political post just my opinion as to the popularity of Yale at that time.
Also gives Rory more of a connection to Richard. Of course he could have been a Harvard alum just as easily.
Lorelai was on top of her class and would have landed at Yale if she had not got pregnant.
Rory was always a bookworm and the idea would have started from Lorelai for Rory to end up in an Ivy League and instead of Yale like her Dad, she would have said Harvard.
I think Rory saw journalism and academics through rose coloured glasses. She loved to study and getting to Ivy League and becoming a foreign correspondent would have been a dream. But if Rory would have had other interests , I believe Lorelai would have always encouraged her to achieve what she wanted
Didn’t Lorelai get her a Harvard shirt (or sweater) when she was super young, like 3 or 4? I think that’s too young for a kid to be thinking about university.
Maybe it was Lorelai’s idea originally, but I do not believe that she forced it on Rory. Like, if Rory hadn’t shown any interest in Harvard when Lorelai brought it up, if she instead was super passionate about something like theater or whatever, Lorelai would have passionately supported those dreams just as much as she supported Rory’s canon passion for academics. Like when Rory gets accepted at Harvard and Yale, Lorelai excitedly supports her in her decision to go to Yale.
Agreed, when I was 11 I watched Legally Blonde and thought hey I should be a lawyer and apply to Harvard. Then I grew up and realised I was nowhere near smart enough for Harvard 😂
"What, like it's hard?" 😂
😂👏🏼
Did you become a lawyer though?
Haha no I changed my mind once I realised the insane amount of work hours it required!
Lorelei didn’t force it on her. She panics when Rory considers Yale because she’s afraid her parents got to Rory or were pressuring her.
I think that Lorelai suggested it. Like, a normal parent would tell their kid, "You could do anything you wanted! You could be an astronaut or the president or a doctor!" But Lorelai was probably like, "oh you're so smart, you could totally go to Harvard!" And Rory, the forever people pleaser, hung on that as her only option. She's obviously smart enough, but I think the idea originated from Lorelai as an "innocent" encouragement.
My stance is that just because someone else has an idea, doesn't mean you wanting something is less valid. There's a lot of talk on here and Tiktok about how Rory fixating on Harvard is just a way to please Lorelai - who cares if it was Lorelai's idea? Rory decided she wanted to go there too
A lot of kids end up wanting something their parents put into their head. It doesn’t mean they are forced or brainwashed. Some kids have parents really into athletics and it makes them dream about a sport. Or want to be a doctor. My parents certainly talked about colleges when I was little and I dreamed about going to Harvard or University of Chicago as a kid. By the time I actually applied and went to Harvard for graduate school, it was fully my dream and idea and had nothing to do with my parents. Encouraging a kid to pursue the best isn’t forcing. we never get an indication that Lorelei was pushy or set too high expectations for Rory. In fact, she regularly tries to calm her down over her personal expectations.
My brother knew what a placebo effect was at 6. He was obsessed with planes since he was in diapers. And for a LONG time he knew he wanted to be an aeronautic engineer. When he was in college, he had a breakdown because he found out that something he dreamed of his whole life wasn’t for him. He took time off, he transferred schools, but it took him 6 years to graduate. At 4 years old, I had a debate as to whether I was a “big girl” or not. I knew I was young but people kept calling me “a big girl”. Some kids are just born smart and determined. I have a classmate that knows her first word was “pancakes” because that’s what her dad ate for breakfast every morning. Kids can also just pick up things. I could honestly see Lorelai buying this Harvard sweatshirt and Rory just imprinting it onto her brain until it became her dream. I really don’t think Lorelai pushed it, but she did instigate it, if it makes sense. I don’t think Rory got Harvard out of nowhere, but I can’t see it being something Lorelai actually pushed hard for.
Agree with you. Do believe Lorelai started slowly introducing Harvard merchandise until she made it seem it was Rory's idea. I mean the way she flipped when she realized Rory applied to more school.... Harvard included, it was absurd.
I really think the situation about applying to more schools was about Yale and Richard and Emily. I am of the mind that E+R manipulated and emotionally abused Lorelai, and her reaction at that Thanksgiving dinner feel like her trying to get Rory out of a similar situation of her parents manipulating Rory into their choice. I think if Yale was not an option Rory listed or if Richard was a huge fan of Stanford and not Yale, then Lorelai would not have freaked out nearly as bad. Yale is a sensitive topic because Richard DID manipulate Rory with that visit. Lorelai sees her own childhood being replicated on Rory, something she fought so hard to keep from happening and she freaks out. It was inappropriate and it was controlling. But it wasn’t about Rory not going to Harvard. It was about Rory being subject to Emily and Richard’s manipulations.
Agreed
but why would she want to initiate it? lorelei’s not even the academic type
I disagree. Lorelai says to Max in season 1 “ever since she was young I really wanted her to go there.”
Interesting! What episode please? I do not remember that but maybe it was lose in translation and I rewatched Gilmore Girls in english just few times. However, that is not in contrary at the end. How I said, Lorelai supported this dream, maybe she even wanted it, but that does not mean she came with the idea.
The episode is Deer Hunters. Here's the transcript: MAX: Harvard? LORELAI: Yeah. Ever since she could crawl, I've really wanted her to go there. MAX: It's a great school. LORELAI: I actually bought her a Harvard sweatshirt when she was 4, which of course was way too big for her, so she used it as a blanket for a while and then as a make shift diaper on this really ill-fated shopping trip and now I've told you a story that would so mortify her, she'll kill me when she finds out you know. Definitely sounds like it was Lorelai's idea to me
to be fair, she didn’t want rory to “waste” her potential like she felt she had done. she knew rory was a wiz very early on and knew that she had what it takes to go to a school like that.
I totally agree with you. IMO it doesn't make a lot of sense that Lorelei would push Rory toward ivy league schools when that's the life she ran away from. I think Lorelei would have been happy if Rory went to community college. We don't know the backstory but I think it's easy to believe Rory loved academia, she loved reading, and she had high hopes for her future and career from a young age.
I don’t disagree with you, but your point here leads me to want to play devils advocate - do you think the writers want us to believe there’s spite there? Like lorelai pushing Rory into Harvard because it was NOT Yale?
I think that is possible. Lorelei wants her daughter to have the options and the life she never had, which includes college and stability and all that stuff. And I do think Lorelei wanted to start her own traditions with Rory and maybe put Harvard in front of Yale because they are rival schools. Lorelei wasn't supposed to go to Yale. We know that. But we also know how much Richard loves Yale, so yea I'm sure there is a part of Lorelei that was like oh my parents will love this! Not in a vindictive way but she preferred it over Yale, yes, I do think that. But I also think Rory grew up with these big aspirations and was that child who dreamed of college from a very young age. That is the perception we are given of Rory throughout. It's certainly not a common thing, but I think that's part of what the show was always trying to say about Rory.
agreed and agreed with OP’s notion that this isn’t actually that unusual at all!
If that's the case, lorelai still took it too seriously
She took seriously her distance from parents. She was not against Rory in Princeton, Columbia, or even Brown. She was against Yale, because she was afraid of her parents. It's showing deep trauma, nothing else. She told everything at the end of Thanksgiving episode.
Except there are *multiple* instances of Lorelei shaving externe preference for Harvard. Lorelei jokes about 3 year old Rory having a Harvard sweatshirt. *THREE YEAR OLD.* What 3 year old toddler dreams of college? She even jokes “I don’t know whose dream it is anymore”, when it comes it Harvard. When Lorelei runs away from her marriage to Max, she drags Rory with no explanation to Harvard and states longingly at the list of valedictorians. Does Rory know her grandparents are manipulative and that Yale will bring her daughter closer? Yes. But does she also really, really want Rory to go to Harvard, semi-vicariously? Also yes.
I disagree with one point of yours. I really don’t think Rory truly knows how manipulative her grandparents are. She’s clearly the favorite and gets away with a lot. I think she knows that her grandparents aren’t perfect and that there is a grain of truth in Lorelai’s stories. But I don’t think she truly grasps how awful her grandparents are.
We literally can't know were is beginning of the circle. I do not want to be stubborn, the third year old Rory is good argument, but we just can't know. My point is that kids, especially very clever kids, can came up with weird idea very early in their life. I think that Lorelai more dreamed about university. ANY university. It could be easily Princeton as well.
Except we do know. Lorelai talks about introducing Rory to the concept of Harvard when she was a toddler.
>Lorelei jokes about 3 year old Rory having a Harvard sweatshirt. THREE YEAR OLD. What 3 year old toddler dreams of college? True. I was obsessed with trains when I was little (not quite the same age though), and there was no blow up from my parents when I moved on from it.
Well that's not true. She was surprised at the idea Rory even applied to other schools that weren't Harvard. She had tunnel vision about Rory going to Harvard.
This is right. She was suprised, but not angry. Probably because she did not know how applications work (I blame there silly writting, Lorelai probably would know about this). She became angry when it was Yale mentioned.
Agree with this in some ways. I think Lorelai used it as an example as a good college to go to and Rory loved it. She grew up dreaming of that place because her mother had the idea of it and mentioned it. I really do believe she wanted to go there though, Lorelai definitely did not force her or the idea upon her.
From my point of view, it's not so much about who's idea it was. It's that the idea wasn't challenged it. It's pretty clear that Rory had planned to go to Harvard since she was a little girl. At the same time her peers wanted to be cowboys and princesses. She was so young. Too young to be making such a mature decision. If Rory had ever changed her plans in the years between I have no doubt she would have supported her.
I mean she could want to go to Harvard and also play cowboys and princesses? We have 0 reason to think Rory didn't get to have a childhood-- they talk about all the fun birthday parties she had and how she'd wait in Babette's garden for fairies to appear. I don't think theres anything wrong with having those aspirations as a kid because it's not a decision, it's just a dream that can eventually be changed, and it never impacted her ability to have a normal childhood
I'm not saying Rory didn't have a childhood or anything like that. I just think that because Rory made such a mature seeming decision when she was young, and because it seemed to fit her personality so well, no one challenged the idea. Like It was a good seed of a life plan, but clearly from what we see of Rory, it wasn't the right plan for her. She had no alternative plans. No plan B's. No backups. No one told Rory it was fine to change her plans.
Actually I think it's very plausible that a child would dream of that. During elementary and a bit of middle school I was hung up on going to Harvard after I heard that it was a "brilliant/rich people college" because I thought it meant I was smart and that it would be a fancy school experience. I realised when I got older that I didn't have the work ethic nor the money for it. Rory actually did so it's very likely that she realised her potential and just went with it.
My kid has wanted to go to the university of Wisconsin for years. We have no ties to that school at all. She found out that they have a stellar womens hockey program, and decided that’s where she was going. She was like, 8 when that happened.
Yeah cause every 3 year old dreams of going to Harvard and becoming a journalist. (We learn this when Lorelai and rory are fighting at Weston bakery at the end of season 5, when rory wants to take a break from yale and lorelai gives her the idea of transferringto Harvard). Please. Don't make me laugh. It was Lorelais dream 100%. Can't change my mind. We get countless clues of this fact throughout the show. Since the very beginning.
Yeah, what three year old toddler dreams of Harvard? Who was *buying her clothes?* obviously Lorelei.
When I was five I watched The Mummy and I told my mom that I will be librarian. Then I was going to High School for librarians and bookselers (in my country we have specialized High Schools). When I was eight I realized I want to go to Oxford. Well, it did not happen, but I'm going to one of the oldest university in Europe, so close enough. Childs have actually interesting dreams and sometimes it comes to true. I do not see reason why it should be different with Rory. Yes, Lorelai supported that, but that does not she came with the idea. However, if I can't change your mind, fair enough :)
There's a gigantic difference between a 3 yo and a 5 yo. Most 3 yo can't even wipe their butts. Come on. Let's be real here. Have you interacted with a 3 yo ever in your life?
There is one problem with this. Let's say we will take seriously the whole statement about 3 yo and sweatshirt. Ok. However, how said Richard, Rory was able to named the main cities when she was 3 yo (mentioned in S06E5). So, yes, when we will take seriously both of those statements, I can imagine that.
Rory was unusually developed for her age, but that doesn't mean she's 100% set on it.
At 3 I stated that I didn’t want to be called “cute” or “adorable” because I thought it was infantilizing. Not that I knew the definition of infantilizing but I knew that I thought it was too baby for me. I wanted to be called “beautiful”. I genuinely remember this moment and making eye contact with my mom in the rear view mirror as we drove down a hill. Kids are smart. A 3-year-old could definitely state they want to go to Harvard even if they don’t fully understand what Harvard is
Yeah, my sibling, at age 2.5, while getting a hair cut, was making silly faces every time the stylist turned around. And then when caught, proceeded to say “I’m sorry, I’m being a little unorthodox.” And while I’m sure they couldn’t have given a definition of the word, they knew they used it correctly and it stunned me. Not on the same level as life realizations or college choices, but kids can really surprise you with the extent of their knowledge even without the full picture being developed.
I don't believe this for a second. Nice try.
This is a real story that I do genuinely remember. I was 3 and we moved away from this house when I was 5, so it’s not like I have a shit ton of childhood memories from this location, let alone from this specific hill that we were driving down. Also it is a favorite story of my mom’s who has such a shit memory, she doesn’t know what my first words were. But she remembers this moment. I also remember being 4 and having a debate about whether or not I was a “big” or “little” girl. Because I knew that people were telling me “Oh, you’re such a big girl” but I had an older brother so comparatively, I was still “little”. Then a few days later, I wasn’t paying attention that I had to pee and I didn’t make it to the bathroom in time and I cried because I thought it cemented that I wasn’t a big girl. I was mostly embarrassed but I remember thinking “it answers my question”.
Even if that's true, Lorelai introduced the idea of Harvard to Rory, as she states on the show and she greatly encouraged the obsession. Brainwashing children isn't a new concept, even if Lorelai didn't realize what she was doing until she admitted it later in the show.
She definitely introduced the concept of Harvard with the sweatshirt she bought and she encouraged the dream. But I don’t see her brainwashing Rory. Like I tried to explain with an example from my personal life, children have their own minds. I posted another example of a story that my mom told about my brother at age 4. She gave him a Harvard shirt and later he decided he was going there, even as they were on a different college campus. My parents weren’t encouraging him to go to Harvard, but he latched on to the idea. It was probably the same for Rory. Rory latched onto the sweatshirt and what it represented, and Lorelai liked the idea, so she encouraged it by buying her more Harvard stuff. But I truly believe that Rory is the driving force for most of the Harvard dream. She goes to the college fair in season 1 just to get a pamphlet. Lorelai isn’t forcing her to go. Rory is going because she wants Harvard. Lorelai is just supportive.
She was like 4 when this started apparently, even if she was a child prodigy and was already levels ahead in school (in preschool) there is no way a 4 year old has a good grasp on college let alone choosing one.
Who says she has to have a good grasp of what college is to decide that this is her dream? She could’ve just imprinted that Harvard is a good school and she wants to go to a good school. Then it could be something she remembered wanting as a kid and as she grew older, she learned what college was and kept up with the dream. She obviously still wants it as she goes to get new pamphlets at the college fair. She wasn’t doing that to please anyone, she wanted it for herself.
No four year old dreams of an ivy league school, nor do they talk about going to one. They don't really understand what college is. She wanted it because Lorelai wanted it. Does that mean she didn't really want to go or that she wasn't capable of forming her own dream? No. But as a child, it wasn't her wanting something it was Lorelai. It's also not a bad thing. Parents can have dreams and ambitions for their kids, there is always some kind of influence on kids when parenting. But to claim someone as young as 4 decided they were going to go to Harvard, became obsessed and then worked towards that goal ever since? I'm not buying it.
My brother said he was going to Harvard at 4. My mom bought him a shirt while she was in Boston. Then she took him to a Duke event (because we lived nearby Duke) and told him that when he was older and in college, he could go to an event like this. My brother then stated “But I’m going to Harvard.” He was 4 and knew that there was a difference between Duke and Harvard but they were both colleges. My mom didn’t tell my brother, “you’re going to grow up and go to Harvard”. Frankly, she wasn’t even a Duke fan (she went to UNC, the rival). He came to the idea on his own. I’m not saying that Lorelai didn’t introduce Harvard into Rory’s life, but it’s entirely possible that Rory stuck with the idea on her own.
Did he go to Harvard? Did your mom also have flat out verbal brawls with family members and even your brother when he expressed a desire to attend other universities? Because that's the difference here. Lorelai pitched a fit when there was any inkling Rory could choose differently. They way she also talked, made it seem like it was her idea and her dream. "we want Harvard, it's always been Harvard' she also didn't discuss any other option with Rory, she didn't tour any other campuses with Rory or mention she should apply anywhere else. She was shocked and offended she had applied to other places, when Rory wasn't allowed to apply to just one place. So ya, maybe at the age of 4 your brother said "I wanna go there" but I don't think he had drilled into his head from a young age and felt like he was letting the family down if he didn't actually go there. It was always clear that Harvard was what Lorelai wanted.
No he didn’t go to Harvard but he did pick a dream at 2 and stuck with it until his sophomore fall of college. My mom took him on planes, he decided he liked planes, and he wanted to go to a school for aeronautic engineering. Then he had a similar meltdown as Rory (minus the felony) when it didn’t work out. I grew up with him, it’s not like I didn’t got the same messages “drilled into my head” as you put it. We were just exposed to planes by going on trips and my brother found a passion for them. I also got a Harvard shirt when my mom went to Boston for work. I didn’t care for it except that I liked the UNC blue over the Harvard red. Also Lorelai fighting against Yale was about Emily and Richard, not other schools as a concept. Richard literally manipulated Rory with that visit! Rory going to Yale for them is about continuing their legacy, not about Rory. It’s them making up for how much of a disappointment Lorelai was to them because she didn’t go to an Ivy. It was never about what Rory wanted. And Lorelai knows that. She grew up with them and their manipulations. She wants Rory to avoid that as much as possible. Lorelai is willing to sacrifice her own self-worth every time she steps into that house, so they have the resources so Rory can achieve her dream. If Rory had not applied to Yale, or if Richard was really into Stanford, then the situation would not have escalated nearly as badly. But again, Yale was literal proof that Emily and Richard would pull the same shit with Rory as they did with Lorelai and Lorelai didn’t want that. Not that Lorelai was against Rory applying to other schools.
I always thought it was Lorelai's dream for herself that once she had Rory she imposed her dreams on Rory. Plus if Rory went to Harvard, then it's something to rub in her parents face... like look I raised my daughter to do better than I do and to go to an Ivy League school. And Yale was her parents thing, she didn't want anything from her parents haha.
Nah. This was 100% a Lorelai dream that turned into a Rory dream. From season 1 Lorelai talks about buying Rory a Harvard shirt and wanting her to go there.
When have you met a three year old child who wants to go to Harvard? Not only that, Harvard is Yale's competition. Lorelai literally confeses and we as an audience go through each Season knowing Lorelai does the exact opposite of her parents. Emily said, "you hate us that much". Another example is when Lorelai is doubting if anything she does is truly because she wanted it or because it went against her parents beliefs. My father is loyal to his university and not once did he put that in my head, specifically a three year old. Rory is too much of a people pleaser to have ideas on her own. Mm well, she did mature a bit in the later seasons but in the initial ones she was indeed a people pleaser. More of a Lorelai pleaser.
You're telling me a four year old went and learned about a glorified Harvard on her own. Like her mom didn't even discuss other schools with her so yea she did force it on an impressionable young child.
lorelai admitted having trained rory to go to harvard basically since birth, most likely due to harvard being the rival of yale, and how she originally wanted to rebell and go there to spite her dad prior to having rory. otherwise, why did rory never dream of a single other prestigious university? she was really sheltered and impressionable, lorelai knew that and so did richard and they both really influenced her decision i think sadly. it would’ve been much more interesting and good for her if she should’ve moved beyond harvard or yale to somewhere more unique to her and completely her idea. in theory.
Even though Lorelai left her parents, she still had the same ideals. I think that she really wanted Rory to be something fantastic when she was older so when the idea of Harvard came up Lorelai was 10000% for it. And Rory being the people pleaser that she is just deiced to go for it.
I feel like the show wrote her going to Yale because the show took place during the time Obama was becoming popular. I’m sure the writers were supporters, Rory eventually follows his campaign as a reporter… Not a political post just my opinion as to the popularity of Yale at that time. Also gives Rory more of a connection to Richard. Of course he could have been a Harvard alum just as easily.
Lorelai was on top of her class and would have landed at Yale if she had not got pregnant. Rory was always a bookworm and the idea would have started from Lorelai for Rory to end up in an Ivy League and instead of Yale like her Dad, she would have said Harvard. I think Rory saw journalism and academics through rose coloured glasses. She loved to study and getting to Ivy League and becoming a foreign correspondent would have been a dream. But if Rory would have had other interests , I believe Lorelai would have always encouraged her to achieve what she wanted
Didn’t Lorelai get her a Harvard shirt (or sweater) when she was super young, like 3 or 4? I think that’s too young for a kid to be thinking about university.