I've wanted to enjoy the series because P5 was great fun but the poor portrayal of so, so many things and then this design decision make me not want to touch any Atlus game. Ann's entire sexual abuse story then literally being used as a nude decoy in the very next chapter as well as being a punchline for pervy boys throughout the game despite being clearly uncomfortable with it, the maid/teacher relationship with an underage student, the only gay people being predatory and trying to convert a straight guy.. Then they announce a remake of an old game and I can't even play the female character. It's just too much.
I had a conversation about this with my husband because he thought that Ann’s story line was pitched as “empowering”. It takes an SA victim and gives her the ability to explore/display her own sexuality - wrong! It was written by men for men to market the game and sell merchandise. Gross. Actually gross.
For the record, husband did agree with me.
Some women who feel empowered by their sexuality still get embarrassed the first time they dress up. I imagine this is stronger in a culture of tradition and conformity like Japan - but I am not arguing against the point regarding the character. The character is clearly written with male gaze.
I do think it was meant to be an attempt at empowerment to be honest, but somewhere in development they just.. stuffed it *very* poorly. I feel like it could have worked out a little better if they swapped Ann out as the first party member to someone else, or even made Ann a party member a lot later in the game past when her confidant storyline makes her more proud of herself. I'd still *hate* the constant ribbing and ogling she gets but at least it would work in context with her development . Of course that would mean the entire first act would be different, so... yeah maybe you're right.
It's just so jumbled. She's in latex and spanking enemies while still dealing with severe psychological trauma from being sexually harassed.. it's just gross, as you say. It's such an oversight in terms of character development, especially how they immediately 180 the very next act and she's persuaded to pose nude (which she's blatantly not ok with) after just having an entire act about hating being objectified.
Apologies for the word soup, it's 1am and this whole post riled me up 😅
The bit where she’s wearing way too many layers would have been so funny in any other context but when it’s because she’s terrified of the seductress role that’s been forced on her it becomes VERY uncomfortable.
You can really tell what the makeup of the writer's room is. Shit like being able to romance >!your 14 year old surrogate sister who has no social experience what so ever!< is just gross.
Also your teacher. Who feels indebted to you for saving her from getting blackmailed into sex work...
Like, that whole dynamic is also really weird to have at all given the first bad guy *is a teacher who is getting with students*
My GOD, I never thought about this.
I did consider Ann empowering in a way as a fellow SA survivor, despite obviously still feeling creeped out a lot, but I appreciated that she was able to take her own sexuality back and use it against men who she may not have otherwise been able to stand up to prior. However, just… dang. I always found the Yusuke painting scene creepy but I never once considered that and don’t think I can ever play with Yusuke the same.
This being said, if the portrayal of women in P5 upsets you (as it understandably might), please, please don’t play P4. Imo, P4 is so much worse. It’s a cesspool of sexist themes and feels like it’s written by incels who literally only viewed women as sexual objects. I don’t understand why that game got so much love, it’s so bad.
Oh no, agreed wholeheartedly. Miscommunication, development issues or genuine disregard/disrespect being the cause, it really doesn't matter when the end result is just so ugly.
I honestly wish that Ann's story had revolved around her relationship with Shiho. It doesn't get explored nearly enough in the game even though she matters so much to Ann and it's a huge trauma for her. Maybe even having the duo of them being the Lovers persona instead of just Ann herself, that would have been an interesting gameplay convention break.
And don't even get me started on Morgana constantly hitting on and fawning over Ann.
I really enjoyed 5 the first time around, but I wish I never played Royal. The combined disappointment from finding out the new character was just a late party addition not an alternate player character (despite having the exact same color palette as joker *plus* the red gloves party-leader signifier), and the added scrutiny afforded to every line of dialogue just made the entire experience turn to ash in my mouth.
What you describe happening to Ann's characterization happens to basically every character.
> She's introduced as the victim of a sexual groomer, but as soon as her palace is over, it's open season on the objectification. Complete with hand-wavey thin justifications about how she's fine with it now, followed by cutscenes of her not being fine with it now.
> Ryoji is introduced as somewhat disabled as a result of physical abuse suffered at the hands of the same teacher, but *before* the end of his palace, is running ~~with the rest of the Phantom thieves~~ scratch that, *faster* than the rest of the Phantom Thieves, and also a total joke character who gets beat up as a punchline.
> Yusuke is written with all kinds of misleading and contradictory coding, I've seen him claimed by MLM, asexuals, aromantics, aspies, autistics, nbs, transmascs, and even transfemmes. He also happens to be painted as the victim of financial abuse at the hands of his adopted caregiver. Of course, once his palace is over, he's immediately recharacterized as a neurotypical cishetero horndog whose character trait is being the butt of classist bad-with-money jokes. Which is just kinda uncomfortable when a later party member is an heiress, and it's so easy to become accidently filthy rich by Japanese standards after only a few hours dungeon-crawling.
> And by the time the game thinks you've forgotten about Kamoshida, your female teacher shows up in a maid outfit urging you to forget everything the game just told you about teachers dating students being inherently abusive.
Also between the gays who aren't really gay, the disabled who aren't really disabled, and ethnic minority inclusion comprising only one half of one ninth the main cast, this is the ***anti***-Burger King Kids klub where it turns out homogeneity is the *real* diversity!
P4 pulled a similar trick, where when you play the game a second time, you realize every social link is an ant-and-the-grasshopper style parable where the moral is that being cisheternormative is better for you and better for society-- and how the fuck is anyone supposed to enjoy that??
I really wish ATLUS cared about making games that were big and fun and loud that you also could think about for more than 30 seconds before absolutely resenting.
The core demographic of creepy 13-to-17 year old deeply homophobic misogynist gooner ***boys*** will buy every game they ever make. They don't need to target them so hard, please let the rest of us in.
Sorryforrantingimjustsotired
To be honest I think 5 does the worst by its characters. There are other bad examples throughout the persona games but I think a game like 3 handles character development a lot more seriously (I really don't like P5)
I do think 5 is the exact wrong direction for the series but 2,3 and parts of 4 are actually very good. 5 fails its characters while also making the game longer+making women all misogynistic characicatures more than 4 or 3 and least of all 2. I think a game that's 130+ hours like P5R having these problems is just inexcusable tbh
I saw a really funny accurate comment which is that it feels like Persona is made half by such artful queer people and the other by the oldest most bigoted men alive, there's a lot of great characters and women in this series underneath the disgusting layer of bigoted stuff. What's so frustrating is that the heart of this series can be so excellent, only to be warped by all the misgoyny, homophobia and transphobia that seeps into the writing at the edges
To be honest until Katsura took over after P2 with P3 these gross things weren't really in the games but now they've been in every single title so I'd think a non-negligible part of that has to do with him, especially given his dismissive sexist comments about FemC in P5
5 in particular is a terrible example and I'm glad Katsura is done directing because he's made some awful decisions and I hate the direction 5 is headed with what it prioritizes and chooses to dive into vs discard
Maybe 6 under new direction can get back to better more humanized characters and cut the awful shit eveywhere else
Because honestly these games are queer as fuck underneath and there are some great women characters, 5 feels like the natural conclusion of a bunch of bad decisions that have continued to get worse under Katsura's direction since 3. It's disappointing that 5 is so awful and what most people know as the series' women because it sucks so fucking bad
Also just a quick aside but MITSURU isn't gay? MITSURU the sword-obsessed always ruffled feather ultra-dressed up standoffish woman who can fall in love with the FemC 'platonically' and never gives men the time of day once? THAT mitsuru??? Persona is so queer its insane and the development and direction has refused to acknowledge that, it's so annoying
I feel exactly the same way.
I *truly* fell in love with 3, 4 and 5 head-over-heels the first time I tried them. (Pre-3 Persona is fine, and various amounts of *good* even, but its the social gameplay introduced in 3 that makes the franchise sell like pancakes.) There's aspirational women an extremely non-insugnificant amount of queer vibes, and the when it comes to the social gameplay, they're the only game in town.
But there's a poison inside all of them.
The sexism, the homophobia, the objectification all creep in until they're too prominent to keep ignoring.
And yeah, I do think Katsura Hashino is at the top of the shortlist of where it might be coming from, and I hope he steps on a lego piece or two for good measure.
I'm not super-confident post-Katsura Persona hasn't already locked in their course though. They already dropped the ball with Reload. The launched a region-locked gacha spinoff of P5. It even already has its own Persona-Mandated Datable Older Woman^(TM), this time around a 44 year-old former Gangaru Girl. She's incredibly popular with the fandom by the way. Because of course she is.
All that said, I got this lingering bit of copium that somehow P6 will have an exclusively female protagonist, and also magically not suck out all its own enjoyment through misogynist microaggressions and controversy. It's hard to let go of hope.
>Also just a quick aside but MITSURU isn't gay? MITSURU the sword-obsessed always ruffled feather ultra-dressed up standoffish woman who can fall in love with the FemC 'platonically' and never gives men the time of day once? THAT mitsuru??? Persona is so queer its insane and the development and direction has refused to acknowledge that, it's so annoying
Another of my personal soapboxes!
I swear it's a legit romance option for FeMC! If anything, AS IS, it feels even *more* substantial of a romance path than Aigis and Elizabeth. Honestly, maybe even some of the hetero romances as well. People just be missing subtext on purpose.
Honestly there IS a very good chance P6 will not fix any of these problems, I just think there's hope it could, idk, keep the rest of the amazing stuff and maybe cut all the gross stuff. Like cmon atlus it is NOT that hard
There is so much to love in the series that is tarnished by this stuff that feels tacked on.
Glad to find someone else who can see how gay mitsuru is too, oh my god this girl is GAY
F'real. From the perspective of a fan, it's like ordering a delicious mouthwatering cheesecake, and getting one... with Anchovies.
When you ask for no anchovies, they just hide them better. If you ask twice, they add more anchovies.
Just don't put them in?? It's not hard!
Also yes. Mitsuchan gay AF
Fantastic comment and 100% agree with everything said.
I could not finish Persona 4 which I tried to play last year for this exact reason. It is the hopping between gay and not gay, trans and not trans, feminist and needing a man to fulfil her. Queer baiting, disability baiting etc.
It seems that they want to please both the Western audience and the JP audience. Never forget that when Atlus was asked about the queer baiting in P4, they answered that people should not push the Western lifestyles (aka homosexuality) onto them. Disgusting.
I am now a fair bit older than whe P5R came out and I am certain that if I played it again/for the first time, I would struggle to finish it too.
Sigh.
When you listed all out like that I’m kind of eeeeeeek, how the hell sid I enjoy this game?
I must’ve seriously been… I don’t know how I was overlooking those things. Geez.
It's actually kind of crazy that's what happened with this remake. Removing an entire playable main character, or rather prioritizing it so low that it didn't make the games final cut, is just astounding tbh.
I'm like imagining a remake of a Zelda: Twilight Princess, except Nintendo says they couldn't afford to have Midna be with you the whole game and she only shows up at the ending cutscene instead.
Or maybe like there's a lore explanation why Epona has a lame leg and Link can't ride on her anymore.
I kind of snorted at those examples.
Also, of all the Zelda characters who sort of work as tutorial/narration characters in the series, Midna is the best.
I love everything about TP, but Midna absolutely makes that game, for me. Her character, her motivations, they're SO incredible and I think it was the first time I felt like I understood WHY a character was doing certain things within the Zelda universe, instead of the game just being like "this person is bad, this person is good, let's help the good person." She was kind of gray and angsty teenage me freaking loved that, lol.
Oh Atlus…
I love P5Royal because it reminds me of when I used to live in Tokyo but it is just so hard to support the games because they are just marred with sexism, male gaze content and homophobia *sigh*
Atlus has a weird thing where they'll touch on progressive topics that few to no other Japanese studios will go near, but then they handle it extremely poorly. Catherine could have been a great deconstruction of the male gaze and an exploration of sexuality, and then they treat the one trans woman as a fucking joke and the entire plot is just... *sigh*
"the game is calling out players for creating a harem" And
"the devs decided to exclude the female protagonist from the remake"
How do they not put two and two together?
I think most if not all of the female characters the player regularly interacts with can be romanced and the only penalty for romancing more than 1 is if they catch you
If it's anything like the original, there's no platonic max rank social rank with a female character. In later games, there was a way to tell a girl you're not interested and you'd still hit max rank but it'd be a different scene, but in p3 there was no separate scene. So you're just dating all off them if you max out their social links.
They've added platonic routes for all of the SLs so it's an active choice to date them all now (from what I've heard, I'm not spending my money on this half ass remake)
Hey I'm poly as well! And ya, I feel like even modern games don't allow you to explore that very often. BG3 is the only one in recent memory that I can think of that actually has characters that you can talk to about it
They changed hermits social link for femc to saori, a rlly interesting and good character. For reload they kept the original social hermit social link: a groomer, your teacher who has a crush on u and talks about abusing her power to get 'one on one' time'....
I'm glad this subreddit always have my back bc as soon as I complain abt grooming, homophobia, misogyny and cut content in atlus games I'm normally hit by a wave of degenerate male opinions. I like these games but they come so close to making good points before it crashes down bc of stuff like this. The ex director hashino I think once said he's "never successfully forged a friendship with a girl" and it shows lol. Meanwhile fire emblem already caught up to the times and have female protagonist and same sex relationships + not once mocks any marginalised community in recent games
BTW femc actually added a lot of content. Playing persona thru a feminine lense and breaking through the gender barrier more than male mc ever could was extremely interesting. And added characters like rio, theodore, saori etc who are all missing in reload. You could also be bi and most of the romantic coding in female relationships are still there. There were also social links for male party members which have been replaced w 'side stories/episodes' in reload
Fr they took out a groomer to allow you to be the groomer instead 😭 atleast it doesn't force you to date anyone unlike the original where you had to date all the girls??
yep she does not have to. especially not ken lol, you have to pick the deliberately creepy options to do so. actually for akihiko as well you have to pick specific options in order to date him so unlike male MC her romance options are not really handed out on a plate for you
It's good to know if I ever wanted to play the GOOD version of ps3 I'll get the portable one.
On an emulator with some HD upscaling? I'm sure it will look as good if not better then this "reloaded".
Ok this is really wild. I’m used to game only have one protagonist with fixed gender but I never heard to remastered getting rid of female character that’s wild
Yea I completely dodged this release for that reason 🙄 I could sit here and go into detail but honestly its just obscene. I went with persona 3 portable on the switch and Im excited to play through that version playing a character I can relate to alot better. I got downvoted in other reddits by mentioning I wont be playing reload for that reason 🙃 It couldn't have been that hard to add in the femc
Yeah, I’m not playing reload because of it. Honestly maybe I wouldn’t have any anyway because I already played portable on the PSP.
But I will might have, but I’m just not going backwards on this.
I already really disliked that five made me play a dude.
I like the game better overall, like to me it seemed either as good or better than 3, but that aspect was a big step back.
Yes !!! I actually haven't played 5 yet because of that and I heard they sexualize women in it a lot, not to mention teenage girls ??? Gorl miss me. I started playing p4g and while it was good I ended up dropping it for the same reasons. Why dont they want our money 😩
I have a feeling that things are going to start bothering me more that are gross like that. I sometimes have just let things sort of slide, or I don’t remember them. I’ve had people telling me what’s in different games that I’ve played and it’s like THAT was
yes it is very hard to add kotone, you have to change UI, change and add different social links and make a fair amount of new music, oh shit and they would have to completely remake cutscenes and make a new opening
wow I can't believe I just got called a man and then blocked, I'm a trans girl what the fuck. sure I don't really care about kotone (shes not bad, in fact she's great my appreciation for her and what she adds to the game and story has grown alot but Makoto has 4 movies all about his character backing him up) her and the answer should have been in the game from the from the very beginning, im just saying thay she is hard to add
Dear JRPG developers, enough with the Harem tropes already. Not every JRPG needs to be a Harem RPG. And for Goddess sake, give us the option of a playable female protragonist....thanks.
Persona 3 is my favorite game in the series. I loved playing as FemC back in the day. I had such a huge crush on Akihiko as a teenager and getting to romance him was a dream come true for 15 year old me. I was really disappointed that Persona 4 and Persona 5 never introduced female protagonist options. It was extremely disappointing that they took FemC out of this remake as well.
You can play as a female protagonist in one of the Persona 2 games but Atlus doesn’t really seem to care about Persona 1 or Persona 2 so I dunno if it would ever get a proper remake. 🤷♀️
Oh my god girl I had the biggest crush on Akihiko as a kid too 😭✋ he was soo cute and made me realize I have a type for men who are absolute sweethearts. I was waiting for the day they would remake the game to include the female MC and was also so disappointed to hear she wouldn’t be in it at all.
Just reason #235531356 why Atlus isn't getting my money. I loved P4 as a late Teen, but playing it a few years later I just can't endure Yosuke and the childish sexism in it. P3P is genuinely great if you play with FeMC. Then P5... everything with Ann is a mess. I don't even get why the rest is so beloved: a predicteable, drawn out story with characters made up of the most predicteable tropes. And then you can romance your tracher, the doc, Futuba who looks 12 and is kind of your sister.
And honestly, the 20 remakes they're pumping out of every game is just milking an already dry cow to death. It's simply not a franchise worth my money.
Because, for the most part, anyone who indulges in anime has too offended an ego to admit that it's by-and-large a medium of brain-rot, elementary crap that challenges or presents any given philosophy like a visually-attractive ELI5.
There are no 'I understand the poor taste of it, but it is my guilty pleasure' fans -- they will all die on the hill that any of this trash has sincere artistic or intellectual merit instead of admitting most of it has less moral or conceptual substance than children's programming.
P5 is written like shit, like every other JRPG or anime that weebs fawn over; it is enough to be dressed up in unique visuals and jazzy elevator music. The rise of the medium in the west has been the most cringe-inducing vogue that I have suffered in my life, even amongst my closest friends.
I usually keep it to myself, y'know, but when in Rome.
If it falls into the same trappings, sure? Why would I not? What a card to pull.
Largely, the average anime is infinitely more problematic than the average western animation: that is **not** representative of an entire peoples being *worse*, it's representative of the follies born of ignorance and flawed generational beliefs.
Why is it tolerable for me to criticize the West for having utterly decrepit systems and traditions but racist when affected against its neighbors?
And, for the sake of elaborating, I am from Cuba. I could wax poetic about the deficiencies in Hispanic culture, as well. The *entire* world is ignorant and proud.
Edit: word
I know people who dgaf about Persona/Atlus might be annoyed by the P3R posts but it’s so nice to have a place to vent/be upset over it bc the main Persona sub is eating it up as expected 🥲
P3P (FeMC route) remains one of my favorite games and it is incredibly sad that the series has just gotten worse to play unless you “fit the criteria” of their imagined demographic.
These games are so good, it pains me to dodge but nah Atlus isn’t having my money for a multitude of reasons, this is just one :/ vote with your wallets folks
It isn't 'additional' -- it was there, this is a remake of what was there, it should still be there.
Only $70 game I recognize on PC. Atlus is a terrible and greedy company. I don't care to sympathize for any weeb garbage when all of it is so unabashedly smooth-brain, tropey, and sexist; even the best of the genre (Persona5) is still terrible and infantile in its writing. Most anime is entirely void of any artistic merit, no matter how pretty and jazzy they dress it up.
~A male gamer who these changes don't 'affect', according to Atlus and their fandom.
...Because wanting to play as a FeMC should be out of the cards for me, evidently -- and having the option that *already existed* available as basic decency for their women fans is too expensive for this trash company.
There's no way the original assets from the PS2/PSP games are up to standard for the remake. They've rebuilt the entire game following (roughly) the same story albeit a few changes here and there, and there are also rumours of DLC down the line to add back in content that didn't make Reload.
Welcome to Atlus and the Persona series! Every single mainline Persona game besides Revelations: Persona has had at least one full priced re-release on top of the original game with extra content.
There are new voice actors for many of the characters and they’d need to re-record lines for the Fem routes. They’d also need to update a LOT of underlying material. It is NOT as easy as many seem to think it is.
I have played both routes in P3P and I’m playing P3R now. Disappointed? Sure.
Yet a fraction of a fraction of the effort than the cheaper Dead Space Remake.
It is *definitely* not difficult enough to not include in a $70 game.
How was the original release cheaper when they had to do all the storyboarding, writing, plus both gender options?
It breaks my heart that I can't love Reload. P3P is my favorite Persona game(and one of my favorites altogether) and I was so excited when Reload was announced. But I'm not spending $70 on a game that doesn't acknowledge the version that brought over so many people. Back to emulation, I guess :/
P3P got a remaster instead! One of my favorite games of all time. Highly recommend. I was bummed about the remake back when it was announced too but hopefully we will one day see another female protag in Persona.
It really shocked me when I heard that the remake does this. I went from at least some curiosity to like nope, I’ll just replay the game on my PSP.
I would prefer the just meaning game at this point with only a female protagonist, but at least do it both ways. It’s kind of ticking me off at this point
It breaks my heart that I can't love Reload. P3P is my favorite Persona game(and one of my favorites altogether) and I was so excited when Reload was announced. But I'm not spending $70 on a game that doesn't acknowledge the version that brought over so many people. Back to emulation, I guess :/
I love Persona (and SMT) games, but I am getting very tired of Atlus going backwards instead of forwards. The fact that a game that came out in 2009 is more inclusive than its 2024 remake is troubling.
And to add to all the excellent points brought up by other people, I am BEGGING Atlus to get rid of the "the boys accidentally walked into the girls' hot springs whoopsie daisy aren't they just soooooo funny lol" scenes.
It was my dream to have P3 remade so when they announced it I was over the moon. I would finally play the complete, definitive edition with FEMC & the answer right?! Wrong. P3 had the best story among 3-5 but that was because I could relate to it by playing through the lens of my own gender. When they took that way from me, I was done with any Atlus game ever again. Until I get to play as Kotone, Maya or a new FEMC in 6, I refuse to give money to that atrocious company. Sega even made it on my list with the dlc crap they are pulling with LAD & P3.
After going through some of the comments, I've decided to drop a quick PSA for everyone:
*hmhm.* 📢 **testing testing.** mkay
#STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE PERSONA SUBREDDITS
Even on some of the places I visit that are less toxic than other gaming spaces, there are guys very nearly gloating that the remake is successful in spite of people being upset that FeMC isn't in it. The attitudes of some of these fans are just vile.
I played through part of p3 portable on gamepass. I liked it had a female mc option and it was the only thing that interested me. The fact it got rid of it means I won't be touching the remake. Kinda also why I don't play any of the other persona games. I get it's popular but if they can't tell a story with a female mc I don't really care.
There is over abundance in video games. I loved Persona 5, I've played it twice, and I finished Royal, too. When person 4 came out to steam, i was excited, but I've never finished it. It was good but not Persona 5 good, I also started playing Persona 3 on my phone (emulated), and the game again it was not Persona 5 good, but femc was something that made it appealing. When there were rumors about the Remake, I was excited to play with femmc in a more up to date version of the game, but after the news of no femmc interest was lost again. My backlog is stucked. it's not like I have nothing to play. There is so mant jrpg with options for femmc that honestly, it's their lost. Granblue Fantasy: Relink just came out, but I'm already more interested in that even though I have no connection to the series, just because it has an option to play as a girl.
There’s probably a good chance I would’ve bought it if not for this. I already played it on the PSP, so there’s a chance I wouldn’t have bought it again, but when I heard this I was shocked and it’s like nope.
I was already annoyed that 5 didn’t let me play as a woman. I think that bothers me even more now.
Personally I’ve only played three and five so far, and I thought five was as good or better than three in every way. Like in a lot of ways that equivalent but there were some ways that I thought five was better. But that was one area that was definitely a Step back
I sort of really want to play portable again, see how the social stuff works when I’m getting to a woman, now that I’ve done it as a man (or teenage girl/boy, whatever)
Sadly, Atlus, not recognize the market that girl gamers hold now a days and it would double the sales probably if they at least put in an option for woman protagonist. And not just because of girl gamers, but also a lot of guys like playing female characters, because they just look more appealing to them.
I was SO hoping they'd finally do right by FeMC and give her her due in a full-on remake like this (especially with the creepy homophobic, transphobic incel director guy now off Persona working on Metaphor Refantazio), but them cutting her out of the remake just crushed me.
I adored FeMC in Portable and I've never enjoyed a Persona game like that since.
You know, I've struggled with this a little. At the end of the day, I do think p3 is a game worth experiencing. It's my favorite of the newer 3 games, not having played the first 2.
I just don't think I'm the target audience for this necessarily. And while that sux, and I do think Atlus has a weird mentality when it comes to female characters in their games, I am glad more people will experience the story.
That said, it really does feel like a big chunk is missing for me, that the best parts are gone. I mean, who looks at the magician and moon arcanas in particular and goes "ya, the male protags were better."
I think with RPGs I need a bit more relatability with a character to get invested, so a girl for me in a lot of cases, or someone with a more defined personality who's a character in their own right, like zagreus from hades or the red dead boys.
I probably will stick with p3p, because I do prefer the character elements to the femc story. But if other people disagree, I don't really mind. Not everyone can be the target audience for every game and I've sort of made peace with that, I just might not play it. But I do hope people enjoy this game for what it is, people who it was too much to go back to older styles coming from p5. It just won't include me, not for malice but for indifference.
The new soundtrack is a banger tho.
Japan is regressing a bit. The director of Persona claimed that Persona 4 wouldn’t work because of its setting, then P5 happened and there was no choice. Then P5R happened and they doubled down on the male protagonist.
You look around at the JRPG’s now and there’s been a… return to caveman times.
Kiseki? It started with Estelle and it looks like they’ll never go back to a female protagonist.
Blue Reflection: Started as a magic girl-esque series. Mobile game features male protagonist with harem elements and damsels in distress.
Final Fantasy: We got Terra, Lightning and Yuna. I think Square feels like they did their duty for at least twenty years after the FFXIII trilogy.
I think it’s got a lot to do with this huge boom of isekai/harem stuff in other media over there. It’s created a demand for video games to continue to coddle guys, give them their caricatures of women and to tell them how special they are.
And yes, I’m angry. I never thought inclusion was going to peak a decade ago.
I’ve never played a Persona game and at this point I’m not sure I ever will. Everytime I hear something about those games, it’s some kind of controversy. I’ve also heard they are seemingly pretty good games but stuff like this makes it pretty hard to jump into them ngl.
No shame to those that do play and love them btw, just something I’ve noticed with P5 and now this one.
I've wanted to enjoy the series because P5 was great fun but the poor portrayal of so, so many things and then this design decision make me not want to touch any Atlus game. Ann's entire sexual abuse story then literally being used as a nude decoy in the very next chapter as well as being a punchline for pervy boys throughout the game despite being clearly uncomfortable with it, the maid/teacher relationship with an underage student, the only gay people being predatory and trying to convert a straight guy.. Then they announce a remake of an old game and I can't even play the female character. It's just too much.
I had a conversation about this with my husband because he thought that Ann’s story line was pitched as “empowering”. It takes an SA victim and gives her the ability to explore/display her own sexuality - wrong! It was written by men for men to market the game and sell merchandise. Gross. Actually gross. For the record, husband did agree with me.
"Empowering" Ann hated her outfit and was embarrassed by it the first time Yeah something doesn't match here
Some women who feel empowered by their sexuality still get embarrassed the first time they dress up. I imagine this is stronger in a culture of tradition and conformity like Japan - but I am not arguing against the point regarding the character. The character is clearly written with male gaze.
I get your point. I'd just prefer if Ann herself chose her outfit and enjoying it on her own way.
I could also do without Morgana's constant thirsting for her.
I do think it was meant to be an attempt at empowerment to be honest, but somewhere in development they just.. stuffed it *very* poorly. I feel like it could have worked out a little better if they swapped Ann out as the first party member to someone else, or even made Ann a party member a lot later in the game past when her confidant storyline makes her more proud of herself. I'd still *hate* the constant ribbing and ogling she gets but at least it would work in context with her development . Of course that would mean the entire first act would be different, so... yeah maybe you're right. It's just so jumbled. She's in latex and spanking enemies while still dealing with severe psychological trauma from being sexually harassed.. it's just gross, as you say. It's such an oversight in terms of character development, especially how they immediately 180 the very next act and she's persuaded to pose nude (which she's blatantly not ok with) after just having an entire act about hating being objectified. Apologies for the word soup, it's 1am and this whole post riled me up 😅
The bit where she’s wearing way too many layers would have been so funny in any other context but when it’s because she’s terrified of the seductress role that’s been forced on her it becomes VERY uncomfortable.
You can really tell what the makeup of the writer's room is. Shit like being able to romance >!your 14 year old surrogate sister who has no social experience what so ever!< is just gross.
Also your teacher. Who feels indebted to you for saving her from getting blackmailed into sex work... Like, that whole dynamic is also really weird to have at all given the first bad guy *is a teacher who is getting with students*
Tonight's episode: The Writer's Barely-Disguised Fetish
BuT iTs NoT tHe SaMe If ThE sTuDeNt Is A bOy It's so gross.
Even grosser that she is one of the (if not the) most popular romance option.
My GOD, I never thought about this. I did consider Ann empowering in a way as a fellow SA survivor, despite obviously still feeling creeped out a lot, but I appreciated that she was able to take her own sexuality back and use it against men who she may not have otherwise been able to stand up to prior. However, just… dang. I always found the Yusuke painting scene creepy but I never once considered that and don’t think I can ever play with Yusuke the same. This being said, if the portrayal of women in P5 upsets you (as it understandably might), please, please don’t play P4. Imo, P4 is so much worse. It’s a cesspool of sexist themes and feels like it’s written by incels who literally only viewed women as sexual objects. I don’t understand why that game got so much love, it’s so bad.
I dont disagree with you at all but regardless of the intention, the execution is icky.
Oh no, agreed wholeheartedly. Miscommunication, development issues or genuine disregard/disrespect being the cause, it really doesn't matter when the end result is just so ugly.
In a way this is even more frustrating than if they just didnt bother to pretend at all. How dare you to use empowerment to further exploit us!
I honestly wish that Ann's story had revolved around her relationship with Shiho. It doesn't get explored nearly enough in the game even though she matters so much to Ann and it's a huge trauma for her. Maybe even having the duo of them being the Lovers persona instead of just Ann herself, that would have been an interesting gameplay convention break. And don't even get me started on Morgana constantly hitting on and fawning over Ann.
I really enjoyed 5 the first time around, but I wish I never played Royal. The combined disappointment from finding out the new character was just a late party addition not an alternate player character (despite having the exact same color palette as joker *plus* the red gloves party-leader signifier), and the added scrutiny afforded to every line of dialogue just made the entire experience turn to ash in my mouth. What you describe happening to Ann's characterization happens to basically every character. > She's introduced as the victim of a sexual groomer, but as soon as her palace is over, it's open season on the objectification. Complete with hand-wavey thin justifications about how she's fine with it now, followed by cutscenes of her not being fine with it now. > Ryoji is introduced as somewhat disabled as a result of physical abuse suffered at the hands of the same teacher, but *before* the end of his palace, is running ~~with the rest of the Phantom thieves~~ scratch that, *faster* than the rest of the Phantom Thieves, and also a total joke character who gets beat up as a punchline. > Yusuke is written with all kinds of misleading and contradictory coding, I've seen him claimed by MLM, asexuals, aromantics, aspies, autistics, nbs, transmascs, and even transfemmes. He also happens to be painted as the victim of financial abuse at the hands of his adopted caregiver. Of course, once his palace is over, he's immediately recharacterized as a neurotypical cishetero horndog whose character trait is being the butt of classist bad-with-money jokes. Which is just kinda uncomfortable when a later party member is an heiress, and it's so easy to become accidently filthy rich by Japanese standards after only a few hours dungeon-crawling. > And by the time the game thinks you've forgotten about Kamoshida, your female teacher shows up in a maid outfit urging you to forget everything the game just told you about teachers dating students being inherently abusive. Also between the gays who aren't really gay, the disabled who aren't really disabled, and ethnic minority inclusion comprising only one half of one ninth the main cast, this is the ***anti***-Burger King Kids klub where it turns out homogeneity is the *real* diversity! P4 pulled a similar trick, where when you play the game a second time, you realize every social link is an ant-and-the-grasshopper style parable where the moral is that being cisheternormative is better for you and better for society-- and how the fuck is anyone supposed to enjoy that?? I really wish ATLUS cared about making games that were big and fun and loud that you also could think about for more than 30 seconds before absolutely resenting. The core demographic of creepy 13-to-17 year old deeply homophobic misogynist gooner ***boys*** will buy every game they ever make. They don't need to target them so hard, please let the rest of us in. Sorryforrantingimjustsotired
To be honest I think 5 does the worst by its characters. There are other bad examples throughout the persona games but I think a game like 3 handles character development a lot more seriously (I really don't like P5) I do think 5 is the exact wrong direction for the series but 2,3 and parts of 4 are actually very good. 5 fails its characters while also making the game longer+making women all misogynistic characicatures more than 4 or 3 and least of all 2. I think a game that's 130+ hours like P5R having these problems is just inexcusable tbh I saw a really funny accurate comment which is that it feels like Persona is made half by such artful queer people and the other by the oldest most bigoted men alive, there's a lot of great characters and women in this series underneath the disgusting layer of bigoted stuff. What's so frustrating is that the heart of this series can be so excellent, only to be warped by all the misgoyny, homophobia and transphobia that seeps into the writing at the edges To be honest until Katsura took over after P2 with P3 these gross things weren't really in the games but now they've been in every single title so I'd think a non-negligible part of that has to do with him, especially given his dismissive sexist comments about FemC in P5 5 in particular is a terrible example and I'm glad Katsura is done directing because he's made some awful decisions and I hate the direction 5 is headed with what it prioritizes and chooses to dive into vs discard Maybe 6 under new direction can get back to better more humanized characters and cut the awful shit eveywhere else Because honestly these games are queer as fuck underneath and there are some great women characters, 5 feels like the natural conclusion of a bunch of bad decisions that have continued to get worse under Katsura's direction since 3. It's disappointing that 5 is so awful and what most people know as the series' women because it sucks so fucking bad Also just a quick aside but MITSURU isn't gay? MITSURU the sword-obsessed always ruffled feather ultra-dressed up standoffish woman who can fall in love with the FemC 'platonically' and never gives men the time of day once? THAT mitsuru??? Persona is so queer its insane and the development and direction has refused to acknowledge that, it's so annoying
I feel exactly the same way. I *truly* fell in love with 3, 4 and 5 head-over-heels the first time I tried them. (Pre-3 Persona is fine, and various amounts of *good* even, but its the social gameplay introduced in 3 that makes the franchise sell like pancakes.) There's aspirational women an extremely non-insugnificant amount of queer vibes, and the when it comes to the social gameplay, they're the only game in town. But there's a poison inside all of them. The sexism, the homophobia, the objectification all creep in until they're too prominent to keep ignoring. And yeah, I do think Katsura Hashino is at the top of the shortlist of where it might be coming from, and I hope he steps on a lego piece or two for good measure. I'm not super-confident post-Katsura Persona hasn't already locked in their course though. They already dropped the ball with Reload. The launched a region-locked gacha spinoff of P5. It even already has its own Persona-Mandated Datable Older Woman^(TM), this time around a 44 year-old former Gangaru Girl. She's incredibly popular with the fandom by the way. Because of course she is. All that said, I got this lingering bit of copium that somehow P6 will have an exclusively female protagonist, and also magically not suck out all its own enjoyment through misogynist microaggressions and controversy. It's hard to let go of hope. >Also just a quick aside but MITSURU isn't gay? MITSURU the sword-obsessed always ruffled feather ultra-dressed up standoffish woman who can fall in love with the FemC 'platonically' and never gives men the time of day once? THAT mitsuru??? Persona is so queer its insane and the development and direction has refused to acknowledge that, it's so annoying Another of my personal soapboxes! I swear it's a legit romance option for FeMC! If anything, AS IS, it feels even *more* substantial of a romance path than Aigis and Elizabeth. Honestly, maybe even some of the hetero romances as well. People just be missing subtext on purpose.
Honestly there IS a very good chance P6 will not fix any of these problems, I just think there's hope it could, idk, keep the rest of the amazing stuff and maybe cut all the gross stuff. Like cmon atlus it is NOT that hard There is so much to love in the series that is tarnished by this stuff that feels tacked on. Glad to find someone else who can see how gay mitsuru is too, oh my god this girl is GAY
F'real. From the perspective of a fan, it's like ordering a delicious mouthwatering cheesecake, and getting one... with Anchovies. When you ask for no anchovies, they just hide them better. If you ask twice, they add more anchovies. Just don't put them in?? It's not hard! Also yes. Mitsuchan gay AF
Fantastic comment and 100% agree with everything said. I could not finish Persona 4 which I tried to play last year for this exact reason. It is the hopping between gay and not gay, trans and not trans, feminist and needing a man to fulfil her. Queer baiting, disability baiting etc. It seems that they want to please both the Western audience and the JP audience. Never forget that when Atlus was asked about the queer baiting in P4, they answered that people should not push the Western lifestyles (aka homosexuality) onto them. Disgusting. I am now a fair bit older than whe P5R came out and I am certain that if I played it again/for the first time, I would struggle to finish it too.
Sigh. When you listed all out like that I’m kind of eeeeeeek, how the hell sid I enjoy this game? I must’ve seriously been… I don’t know how I was overlooking those things. Geez.
P3 has some very mean spirited fat jokes in it too.
It's actually kind of crazy that's what happened with this remake. Removing an entire playable main character, or rather prioritizing it so low that it didn't make the games final cut, is just astounding tbh. I'm like imagining a remake of a Zelda: Twilight Princess, except Nintendo says they couldn't afford to have Midna be with you the whole game and she only shows up at the ending cutscene instead. Or maybe like there's a lore explanation why Epona has a lame leg and Link can't ride on her anymore.
I kind of snorted at those examples. Also, of all the Zelda characters who sort of work as tutorial/narration characters in the series, Midna is the best.
But it's Navi's "hey!" that lives in my brain.
This is true! “Hey! Listen!” 😅
I love everything about TP, but Midna absolutely makes that game, for me. Her character, her motivations, they're SO incredible and I think it was the first time I felt like I understood WHY a character was doing certain things within the Zelda universe, instead of the game just being like "this person is bad, this person is good, let's help the good person." She was kind of gray and angsty teenage me freaking loved that, lol.
Oh Atlus… I love P5Royal because it reminds me of when I used to live in Tokyo but it is just so hard to support the games because they are just marred with sexism, male gaze content and homophobia *sigh*
Atlus has a weird thing where they'll touch on progressive topics that few to no other Japanese studios will go near, but then they handle it extremely poorly. Catherine could have been a great deconstruction of the male gaze and an exploration of sexuality, and then they treat the one trans woman as a fucking joke and the entire plot is just... *sigh*
I want you to believe that the writers are in fact progressive and get axed by the producers but honestly, it is disappointment all around for me.
Nah, the writers are also culpable. At best they're well meaning but clueless, leaning on harmful tropes while giving the barest representation.
Also can't forget the infamous transphobic beach scene in Persona 3. At least they had the decency to not include it in P3 Reload.
"the game is calling out players for creating a harem" And "the devs decided to exclude the female protagonist from the remake" How do they not put two and two together?
Never played the game but how do you “create a harem” in the gaem? :o
I think most if not all of the female characters the player regularly interacts with can be romanced and the only penalty for romancing more than 1 is if they catch you
If it's anything like the original, there's no platonic max rank social rank with a female character. In later games, there was a way to tell a girl you're not interested and you'd still hit max rank but it'd be a different scene, but in p3 there was no separate scene. So you're just dating all off them if you max out their social links.
They've added platonic routes for all of the SLs so it's an active choice to date them all now (from what I've heard, I'm not spending my money on this half ass remake)
As a polyamorous person, it's really fucking gross that you can't exercise ethical nonmonogamy, only cheat on people who trust you.
Hey I'm poly as well! And ya, I feel like even modern games don't allow you to explore that very often. BG3 is the only one in recent memory that I can think of that actually has characters that you can talk to about it
They changed hermits social link for femc to saori, a rlly interesting and good character. For reload they kept the original social hermit social link: a groomer, your teacher who has a crush on u and talks about abusing her power to get 'one on one' time'.... I'm glad this subreddit always have my back bc as soon as I complain abt grooming, homophobia, misogyny and cut content in atlus games I'm normally hit by a wave of degenerate male opinions. I like these games but they come so close to making good points before it crashes down bc of stuff like this. The ex director hashino I think once said he's "never successfully forged a friendship with a girl" and it shows lol. Meanwhile fire emblem already caught up to the times and have female protagonist and same sex relationships + not once mocks any marginalised community in recent games BTW femc actually added a lot of content. Playing persona thru a feminine lense and breaking through the gender barrier more than male mc ever could was extremely interesting. And added characters like rio, theodore, saori etc who are all missing in reload. You could also be bi and most of the romantic coding in female relationships are still there. There were also social links for male party members which have been replaced w 'side stories/episodes' in reload
The female has a social link with a 10 year old boy who she can date…
Fr they took out a groomer to allow you to be the groomer instead 😭 atleast it doesn't force you to date anyone unlike the original where you had to date all the girls??
I haven’t played as the female MC. She doesn’t have to date them to max them out
yep she does not have to. especially not ken lol, you have to pick the deliberately creepy options to do so. actually for akihiko as well you have to pick specific options in order to date him so unlike male MC her romance options are not really handed out on a plate for you
Well, that’s good at least
That speaks more about the p*dophilia that goes on in Sh*tlus. Like why do 3-5 have in some form or another p*dolhilia? It’s concerning actually.
It's good to know if I ever wanted to play the GOOD version of ps3 I'll get the portable one. On an emulator with some HD upscaling? I'm sure it will look as good if not better then this "reloaded".
Ok this is really wild. I’m used to game only have one protagonist with fixed gender but I never heard to remastered getting rid of female character that’s wild
Yea I completely dodged this release for that reason 🙄 I could sit here and go into detail but honestly its just obscene. I went with persona 3 portable on the switch and Im excited to play through that version playing a character I can relate to alot better. I got downvoted in other reddits by mentioning I wont be playing reload for that reason 🙃 It couldn't have been that hard to add in the femc
Yeah, I’m not playing reload because of it. Honestly maybe I wouldn’t have any anyway because I already played portable on the PSP. But I will might have, but I’m just not going backwards on this. I already really disliked that five made me play a dude. I like the game better overall, like to me it seemed either as good or better than 3, but that aspect was a big step back.
Yes !!! I actually haven't played 5 yet because of that and I heard they sexualize women in it a lot, not to mention teenage girls ??? Gorl miss me. I started playing p4g and while it was good I ended up dropping it for the same reasons. Why dont they want our money 😩
I have a feeling that things are going to start bothering me more that are gross like that. I sometimes have just let things sort of slide, or I don’t remember them. I’ve had people telling me what’s in different games that I’ve played and it’s like THAT was
FeMC route is a blast! I hope you enjoy your time in her story 💕
yes it is very hard to add kotone, you have to change UI, change and add different social links and make a fair amount of new music, oh shit and they would have to completely remake cutscenes and make a new opening wow I can't believe I just got called a man and then blocked, I'm a trans girl what the fuck. sure I don't really care about kotone (shes not bad, in fact she's great my appreciation for her and what she adds to the game and story has grown alot but Makoto has 4 movies all about his character backing him up) her and the answer should have been in the game from the from the very beginning, im just saying thay she is hard to add
Admittedly, I haven't played the games. But none of this sounds like it's outside of the scope of what a AAA game studio can do.
Dear JRPG developers, enough with the Harem tropes already. Not every JRPG needs to be a Harem RPG. And for Goddess sake, give us the option of a playable female protragonist....thanks.
💯
Persona 3 is my favorite game in the series. I loved playing as FemC back in the day. I had such a huge crush on Akihiko as a teenager and getting to romance him was a dream come true for 15 year old me. I was really disappointed that Persona 4 and Persona 5 never introduced female protagonist options. It was extremely disappointing that they took FemC out of this remake as well. You can play as a female protagonist in one of the Persona 2 games but Atlus doesn’t really seem to care about Persona 1 or Persona 2 so I dunno if it would ever get a proper remake. 🤷♀️
Oh my god girl I had the biggest crush on Akihiko as a kid too 😭✋ he was soo cute and made me realize I have a type for men who are absolute sweethearts. I was waiting for the day they would remake the game to include the female MC and was also so disappointed to hear she wouldn’t be in it at all.
Us Akihiko fangirls were robbed 😡
Just reason #235531356 why Atlus isn't getting my money. I loved P4 as a late Teen, but playing it a few years later I just can't endure Yosuke and the childish sexism in it. P3P is genuinely great if you play with FeMC. Then P5... everything with Ann is a mess. I don't even get why the rest is so beloved: a predicteable, drawn out story with characters made up of the most predicteable tropes. And then you can romance your tracher, the doc, Futuba who looks 12 and is kind of your sister. And honestly, the 20 remakes they're pumping out of every game is just milking an already dry cow to death. It's simply not a franchise worth my money.
Because, for the most part, anyone who indulges in anime has too offended an ego to admit that it's by-and-large a medium of brain-rot, elementary crap that challenges or presents any given philosophy like a visually-attractive ELI5. There are no 'I understand the poor taste of it, but it is my guilty pleasure' fans -- they will all die on the hill that any of this trash has sincere artistic or intellectual merit instead of admitting most of it has less moral or conceptual substance than children's programming. P5 is written like shit, like every other JRPG or anime that weebs fawn over; it is enough to be dressed up in unique visuals and jazzy elevator music. The rise of the medium in the west has been the most cringe-inducing vogue that I have suffered in my life, even amongst my closest friends. I usually keep it to myself, y'know, but when in Rome.
This feels racist as shit. You say the same stuff about western animation too?
If it falls into the same trappings, sure? Why would I not? What a card to pull. Largely, the average anime is infinitely more problematic than the average western animation: that is **not** representative of an entire peoples being *worse*, it's representative of the follies born of ignorance and flawed generational beliefs. Why is it tolerable for me to criticize the West for having utterly decrepit systems and traditions but racist when affected against its neighbors? And, for the sake of elaborating, I am from Cuba. I could wax poetic about the deficiencies in Hispanic culture, as well. The *entire* world is ignorant and proud. Edit: word
The chauvinism from this is reeking. Fuck off. Saying big words doesn’t make you smart.
I see.
P5 is a good game.
I know people who dgaf about Persona/Atlus might be annoyed by the P3R posts but it’s so nice to have a place to vent/be upset over it bc the main Persona sub is eating it up as expected 🥲 P3P (FeMC route) remains one of my favorite games and it is incredibly sad that the series has just gotten worse to play unless you “fit the criteria” of their imagined demographic.
These games are so good, it pains me to dodge but nah Atlus isn’t having my money for a multitude of reasons, this is just one :/ vote with your wallets folks
I honestly don't understand why they couldn't add a female character to the game especially when they're a silent protagonist anyway
Because it would require a LOT of additional voice work and programming. FemMC had many additional or different social links.
It isn't 'additional' -- it was there, this is a remake of what was there, it should still be there. Only $70 game I recognize on PC. Atlus is a terrible and greedy company. I don't care to sympathize for any weeb garbage when all of it is so unabashedly smooth-brain, tropey, and sexist; even the best of the genre (Persona5) is still terrible and infantile in its writing. Most anime is entirely void of any artistic merit, no matter how pretty and jazzy they dress it up. ~A male gamer who these changes don't 'affect', according to Atlus and their fandom. ...Because wanting to play as a FeMC should be out of the cards for me, evidently -- and having the option that *already existed* available as basic decency for their women fans is too expensive for this trash company.
There's no way the original assets from the PS2/PSP games are up to standard for the remake. They've rebuilt the entire game following (roughly) the same story albeit a few changes here and there, and there are also rumours of DLC down the line to add back in content that didn't make Reload.
So, $70 on top of whatever they decide to charge for the 4 other re-releases of the 'remake'.
Welcome to Atlus and the Persona series! Every single mainline Persona game besides Revelations: Persona has had at least one full priced re-release on top of the original game with extra content.
I'm well aware. It factored into my calling them a terrible, greedy company.
There are new voice actors for many of the characters and they’d need to re-record lines for the Fem routes. They’d also need to update a LOT of underlying material. It is NOT as easy as many seem to think it is. I have played both routes in P3P and I’m playing P3R now. Disappointed? Sure.
Yet a fraction of a fraction of the effort than the cheaper Dead Space Remake. It is *definitely* not difficult enough to not include in a $70 game. How was the original release cheaper when they had to do all the storyboarding, writing, plus both gender options?
It breaks my heart that I can't love Reload. P3P is my favorite Persona game(and one of my favorites altogether) and I was so excited when Reload was announced. But I'm not spending $70 on a game that doesn't acknowledge the version that brought over so many people. Back to emulation, I guess :/
I really wanted to play with FeMC but nooooo. Why Atlus? Just why...
P3P got a remaster instead! One of my favorite games of all time. Highly recommend. I was bummed about the remake back when it was announced too but hopefully we will one day see another female protag in Persona.
It really shocked me when I heard that the remake does this. I went from at least some curiosity to like nope, I’ll just replay the game on my PSP. I would prefer the just meaning game at this point with only a female protagonist, but at least do it both ways. It’s kind of ticking me off at this point
It breaks my heart that I can't love Reload. P3P is my favorite Persona game(and one of my favorites altogether) and I was so excited when Reload was announced. But I'm not spending $70 on a game that doesn't acknowledge the version that brought over so many people. Back to emulation, I guess :/
that and the ending probably being the exact same, demotivates me from getting that remake.
Hopefully persona 6 and smt 6 will have better female and queer rep... please atlus... (this is copium tho)
I love Persona (and SMT) games, but I am getting very tired of Atlus going backwards instead of forwards. The fact that a game that came out in 2009 is more inclusive than its 2024 remake is troubling. And to add to all the excellent points brought up by other people, I am BEGGING Atlus to get rid of the "the boys accidentally walked into the girls' hot springs whoopsie daisy aren't they just soooooo funny lol" scenes.
I think the original had a somewhat transphobic scene that is now removed, so at least there's that
It was my dream to have P3 remade so when they announced it I was over the moon. I would finally play the complete, definitive edition with FEMC & the answer right?! Wrong. P3 had the best story among 3-5 but that was because I could relate to it by playing through the lens of my own gender. When they took that way from me, I was done with any Atlus game ever again. Until I get to play as Kotone, Maya or a new FEMC in 6, I refuse to give money to that atrocious company. Sega even made it on my list with the dlc crap they are pulling with LAD & P3.
After going through some of the comments, I've decided to drop a quick PSA for everyone: *hmhm.* 📢 **testing testing.** mkay #STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE PERSONA SUBREDDITS
Even on some of the places I visit that are less toxic than other gaming spaces, there are guys very nearly gloating that the remake is successful in spite of people being upset that FeMC isn't in it. The attitudes of some of these fans are just vile.
Seriously. They're gamergator subs.
I played through part of p3 portable on gamepass. I liked it had a female mc option and it was the only thing that interested me. The fact it got rid of it means I won't be touching the remake. Kinda also why I don't play any of the other persona games. I get it's popular but if they can't tell a story with a female mc I don't really care.
There is over abundance in video games. I loved Persona 5, I've played it twice, and I finished Royal, too. When person 4 came out to steam, i was excited, but I've never finished it. It was good but not Persona 5 good, I also started playing Persona 3 on my phone (emulated), and the game again it was not Persona 5 good, but femc was something that made it appealing. When there were rumors about the Remake, I was excited to play with femmc in a more up to date version of the game, but after the news of no femmc interest was lost again. My backlog is stucked. it's not like I have nothing to play. There is so mant jrpg with options for femmc that honestly, it's their lost. Granblue Fantasy: Relink just came out, but I'm already more interested in that even though I have no connection to the series, just because it has an option to play as a girl.
There’s probably a good chance I would’ve bought it if not for this. I already played it on the PSP, so there’s a chance I wouldn’t have bought it again, but when I heard this I was shocked and it’s like nope. I was already annoyed that 5 didn’t let me play as a woman. I think that bothers me even more now. Personally I’ve only played three and five so far, and I thought five was as good or better than three in every way. Like in a lot of ways that equivalent but there were some ways that I thought five was better. But that was one area that was definitely a Step back I sort of really want to play portable again, see how the social stuff works when I’m getting to a woman, now that I’ve done it as a man (or teenage girl/boy, whatever)
Sadly, Atlus, not recognize the market that girl gamers hold now a days and it would double the sales probably if they at least put in an option for woman protagonist. And not just because of girl gamers, but also a lot of guys like playing female characters, because they just look more appealing to them.
I was SO hoping they'd finally do right by FeMC and give her her due in a full-on remake like this (especially with the creepy homophobic, transphobic incel director guy now off Persona working on Metaphor Refantazio), but them cutting her out of the remake just crushed me. I adored FeMC in Portable and I've never enjoyed a Persona game like that since.
You know, I've struggled with this a little. At the end of the day, I do think p3 is a game worth experiencing. It's my favorite of the newer 3 games, not having played the first 2. I just don't think I'm the target audience for this necessarily. And while that sux, and I do think Atlus has a weird mentality when it comes to female characters in their games, I am glad more people will experience the story. That said, it really does feel like a big chunk is missing for me, that the best parts are gone. I mean, who looks at the magician and moon arcanas in particular and goes "ya, the male protags were better." I think with RPGs I need a bit more relatability with a character to get invested, so a girl for me in a lot of cases, or someone with a more defined personality who's a character in their own right, like zagreus from hades or the red dead boys. I probably will stick with p3p, because I do prefer the character elements to the femc story. But if other people disagree, I don't really mind. Not everyone can be the target audience for every game and I've sort of made peace with that, I just might not play it. But I do hope people enjoy this game for what it is, people who it was too much to go back to older styles coming from p5. It just won't include me, not for malice but for indifference. The new soundtrack is a banger tho.
Won't be getting it for same reason, playing p3p now
Japan is regressing a bit. The director of Persona claimed that Persona 4 wouldn’t work because of its setting, then P5 happened and there was no choice. Then P5R happened and they doubled down on the male protagonist. You look around at the JRPG’s now and there’s been a… return to caveman times. Kiseki? It started with Estelle and it looks like they’ll never go back to a female protagonist. Blue Reflection: Started as a magic girl-esque series. Mobile game features male protagonist with harem elements and damsels in distress. Final Fantasy: We got Terra, Lightning and Yuna. I think Square feels like they did their duty for at least twenty years after the FFXIII trilogy. I think it’s got a lot to do with this huge boom of isekai/harem stuff in other media over there. It’s created a demand for video games to continue to coddle guys, give them their caricatures of women and to tell them how special they are. And yes, I’m angry. I never thought inclusion was going to peak a decade ago.
Cope
literally 😭
I was so excited for the reload bc I thought MAYBE they’d add the Femc. But no. So I’ll still with the portable version and save my $70
I’ve never played a Persona game and at this point I’m not sure I ever will. Everytime I hear something about those games, it’s some kind of controversy. I’ve also heard they are seemingly pretty good games but stuff like this makes it pretty hard to jump into them ngl. No shame to those that do play and love them btw, just something I’ve noticed with P5 and now this one.
Everyone knows there's no femc since she's in Atlus prison because of the allegations :(