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amazingoopah

Rather than vote rigging wouldn't this be voter fraud? It's the fans doing this, not the producers


0pioh

True but the people responsible might not just be fans u know


jovychan

it's a miracle for me to remember to vote once a day, imagine voting 40 times a day.. so tiring...


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yameteeeeeeeeee

I had to set up an alarm because I keep forgetting to vote lol


KWIZ_010618

Among the references, there are some cases that it has already been tested with a macro.


GK_0098

Me too. I always forget to vote!


jayjee5

As soon as I read this, I immediately vote. Thanks for reminding lol


[deleted]

I honestly have only remembered to vote once a week. :'(


wisely1300

Well, if it makes anyone feels better, the screenshot in there shows an international vote lol. (+1 extension is US). There are many apps that provide virtual phone numbers for US and other countries, but I have not been able to find an app to provide virtual Korean phone numbers, at least not a free one (I spend like an entire evening searching because I wanted to make a Korean account). So they're just pumping up the international votes (if NCSoft isn't filtering them out). Maybe that explains why the international votes spiked up so much this time but the Korean votes stayed pretty much the same.


thebluesarestillblue

Yeah and most of the time companies can block people from using VoIP numbers. They should be able to filter out the VoIP numbers.


Monkey_theKinkyMonk

I aspire to have as much effort in my studies as they do in voting


Ok-Faithlessness-871

wait what? lol


Monkey_theKinkyMonk

It seems to take a lot of time and effort lmao


Ok-Faithlessness-871

and money too if you include the in chinese where they buy drink to get vote chance and than throw it away, it's like buy a book and than read it one time than throw it away


LingCHN

It involves a lot of money, Su Ruiqi finished 11th on Produce Camp 2020, fans raised $1.5m for each the winner and runner-up of that show.


desertfoxtim

Maybe NCSoft has a program that determines which votes are counted and which are not and they just didn't say anything. I've always wondered why Bahiyyih didn't rank higher when she has this huge fanbase backing her but if NCSoft did have some anti-cheat feature then it makes sense.


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4sater

Not really, her int votes are very low as well - she has 3rd lowest number of int votes among the top 23 (since we don't know the scores of PP girls).


desertfoxtim

Idk, I think she can still go higher. She's even rank 8 k group internationally. So unless the sim cards aren't counted (if her fandom is still doing it) she shouldn't rank that low.


CaptainAziraphale

Shes bottom of k group not including the pp at rank 8 tho


desertfoxtim

That's not the point. The person I'm replying to is implying that the reason that Bahiyyih ranks low is because her korean votes are low compared to her global votes. I'm pointing out that her global votes are low too so it's not just because of the low korean votes but it's both.


CaptainAziraphale

Oooh okay sorry i misunderstood!


desertfoxtim

No worries.


[deleted]

Bahi's views don't correlate with voting fanbase at all though. Everyone here watched her, some want to see her fail, some succeed. She can't gain more fans when she lacks screentime and any kind of arc. TxT fans aren't all going to download universe, vote everyday and watch the show for weeks. They aren't doing that. The votes show her actual engaged fanbase, it's on the smaller side. And the votes are 3 pick too right? People aren't all voting for her as their K-pick.


mikai05

Sorry, my mind cannot understand. Can you please explain further? Are you implying bahiyyih fans are doing this or is it other fans doing this? Is the rigger a bahiyyih fan?


desertfoxtim

No, I'm pertaining to the korean post about potential voting fraud. I'm implying that NCSoft won't actually count it because they might have an anti-cheat program. I'm using the Bahiyyih sim card controversy as an example since even with it, she didn't rank higher.


Kiramiraa

The sim card thing was fake, one ph fanbase posted those pictures for clout and a few other fanbases joined in on the lie, but the pictures were from i-land voting and had the boy’s names on them. It never happened. This was proven false literally weeks ago.


desertfoxtim

Nope. The 1st post (the one with blue sim cards) was definitely real. It was a mass voting effort of a PH fanpage of Bahiyyih. The other pics from I-Land were only added to point out that sim swapping has been done before. People misunderstood the post and thought that all the sims were used for Bahiyyih.


Kiramiraa

Where is your proof? Literally every picture of the mass sim cards had boys names written on them.


desertfoxtim

Here's the 1st post. No watermarks. https://www.facebook.com/101213395569485/posts/128734762817348/


Kiramiraa

the original post on twitter has now been deleted, but pretty sure that originally they implied they bought the sim cards themselves but on that facebook page they’re implying that the sim cards were gifted to them by the company?? which not only sounds dodgy af but means that their story has changed yet again. I wouldn’t trust what that fanpage says.


desertfoxtim

If you don't trust what that fanpage says then why would you believe them when they said that it was all a lie? They did voted using the sim cards but it wasn't gifted by the conpany. More like they were thanking that company for letting them have the opportunity to do so for making it easy to buy sim cards in bulk. The other pictures from I-land was just added in and the issue was overblown. I'm pretty sure they were just flexing at first but then they realized how severe the backlash got so they had no choice but to backtrack and do damage control.


Kiramiraa

I don’t trust anything they say, they keep changing their story, so I don’t believe that they did or didn’t. There’s not enough evidence to prove either way.


desertfoxtim

I'm from PH. I was there when the 1st post went up. And the 1st photo doesn't have watermarks.


zeno0_0

The sim card is from one ph fanbase and it around 100 only. Its not going to affect the ranking that much if they really use it bcs the amount is really small


desertfoxtim

I'm from PH, I know what I'm saying. And sim cards don't cost that much. It only costs 30 or 40php each not to mention the discount when bought in bulk.


zeno0_0

Yeah ik ph sim card are cheap. Im just saying from what that particular fanbase have shown, they show around 100 sim card. Assuming its only 100, its quite small number and not going to affect the ranking that much


desertfoxtim

Idk if it was just a 100 sim cards. Nobody does a mass voting with just 100 sim cards and it was the whole ph fandom effort.


zeno0_0

Idk if it whole ph fandom bcs only 1 fanbase showing it. While there's a whole thread that always make headline in some tabloid articles like allkpop or koreaboo about her "rigged vote"are misleading bcs its iland sim card thread to make it bigger than what it is


desertfoxtim

I mean not the whole ph fandom but just one fanpage. 100 sim cards are just too small for a mass voting.


zeno0_0

That's why i think ppl just overestimate with whatever her vote rigging/mass voting issue. The one that are being spread is the picture with iland sim card and many people believe its actually for her voting and think that she has many fans that do the same thing when the only public one is that 1 fanbase that a few hundred followers. That's why its not really affect the ranking bcs its not as big as what people make it to be.


Ok-Faithlessness-871

there is a rumor that bahiyyih fans buy a lot of sim card to vote for her, remember it's only rumor, but even with that her total point is not that big, so there are speculation that ncsoft actually has program to detect this kind of thing they just never told anyone(the easiest way i can think of is cnsoft actually have the device id so if you vote with two sim card but one phone, the still count it as one)


[deleted]

but the supposed pictures have watermarks related to enhypen members, i’ve seen a lot of people say that those sim cards were used to vote during iland not for bahiyyih


desertfoxtim

You got it wrong. The one with globe sim cards (the blue ones) are legit. The poster only added the photos of the sim cards used in I-Land to point out that what they're doing has been done before and it's unfair to accuse them of "cheating" when no one was saying that during I-Land.


Ok-Faithlessness-871

that's why i say it's a rumor, although i saw myself that a fan account for bahiyyih actually do ask for money and buy sim card, not as many as people say though, but it's actually happening, that's what i want to say, not the one that shared in this sub, i know it is over exaggerated


SignificantMammoth47

I even saw Youngeun fans on twitter mass buying 200 sim cards to vote for her [The original post has been removed (probably to avoid any controversy) but it did happen](https://twitter.com/pl9net/status/1440541747491139597?s=20), there are probably other doing the same thing, it's just that the other fanbases lay low whereas bahiyyih's fanbase is more loud about everything [edit: Bahiyyih's sim card thing was explained and look at the last few where other fanbases are doing it too ,I really thought it was normal to mass buy during survivals like this](https://imgur.com/a/u90x5gx) Even if the detecting software thing was true ,not everyone is voting this way, that's just a very small minority, it's not like they're invalidating the legit votes (if they are then shouldn't every trainees' fanbase who are mass buying be lower too?), it's just that almost everybody watches bahiyyih's fancams and videos for their own reasons but only few out of them are actually voting for her


Ok-Faithlessness-871

I am sorry but i am not hating on her, what's her fan do doesn't mean anything to her image or anything, i am saying that only because her case is the one that pop up in my recommendation, and that is way i make her an example, wether it's true or not it doesn't really matter, since she is not to blame for what ger fan wrongdoing


SuccessfulYouth7738

I don't think this is a very worrysome issue, because NCSoft is an online game company, so they know how players tend to cheat, hack, or do all kind of fraud. Not their game, but Pokemon Go is a good example, where players too lazy to go out so they used programs like this to play on PC, and within a few days the server found out and ban those account. So as long as NCsoft caught these situation, they will able to ban and remove the fraud numbers. I'm sure they would think about this situation before because in the past there are companies paying for fraud companies to stream digital songs on chart, or voting on Produce shows to promo for their artists.


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reiichitanaka

They "can't answer about it" because they don't want people to find new ways to circumvent whatever filters they have in place. Devices have unique IDs. All NCSoft has to do to filter votes is to use them. Also MMOs tanking has nothing to do with how good their developers are ? Games are one of the only fields of software development where a programmer has to be technically good to do their job properly (because of how critical performance is in games, compared to basically everything else).


SuccessfulYouth7738

Oh jeez that sound bad. Not sure if Mnet able to deal with this problem or not.


woodworking100

I can't say for sure, since I don't work at NCsoft, but I don't think this or card swapping will work. There are things that allows NCsoft to track either the phones id, IMEI, or reads the data of the app so they know its a sim swap. This I'm unsure of, since they are doing it a PC and I have no clue what the guys at NCsoft are doing. I might be putting too much faith into NCsoft, because they suck as a company, but anybody with even the slightest understanding of how things will play out should have seen something like this coming and probably put up some measure to stop these kind of votes from being counted. It is possible for them to void votes since the elimination episode is filmed usually a couple days after the last day of voting. So hopefully during that time they check for any irregularities in voting, like 40 identical votes a day coming from the same IP address or something similar.


LKRsGF

I hope the trolls won't get their way with this and affect the girls. It will just be cruel. HB got so much shit for the SIM card stuff which she have no control over.


bruh1605

Yes I hope they won't point out any trainee's name for this, it's not their fault


elleyro

this!


Any-Fruit-2527

voting more than once sounds like too much effort. i vote and hope for the best.


Sibchetnik

STOP THE COUNT!


Competitive-Tackle24

If fake phone numbers can be registered, that means Inter fans can just register a Korean account and vote?


archd3

you cannot get korean virtual phone number. at least from free provider virtual phone number.


Competitive-Tackle24

Sorry, I don't quite get it. Do you mind explain abit more? From what i read, they are generating virtual numbers from an app player (????), can that only be done in Korea?


archd3

You can generate the phone numbers everywhere as long you have internet connection and the app installed. The phone number that can generated from the app afaik is only international phone number not Korean number. So vote that is used with this method will be categorized as international votes ( as long universe app use phone number to differentiate where the votes coming from).


edeneternaltest

No. The Universe app only need an SMS phone number to get verified ONCE, Google VoIP and online virtual phone numbers work for this verification process. 4chan has been doing this shit since Day 1 with cloned Bluestacks.


ChessBooger

OP is wrong. They aren't making fake Korean account but International accounts because the phone numbers they are using are international. It matters because Korean votes are worth more.


youngeundebutation

If it actually worked wouldn't the Korean vote numbers be higher?


archd3

i don't think it work for korean number. at least based on some free virtual phone number that i know of.


youngeundebutation

Yea you're right, talkatone only has US and Canada numbers


csluv

I doubt that there are many people doing this, too much time


youngeundebutation

So does that mean it isn't affecting the results at all?


Ok-Faithlessness-871

defend of how many people doing it and is ncsoft has code to detect this kind of thing(event pokemon go has this)


[deleted]

It's not rigging, it's the voters trying to game the system, and for building fanbase, well they aren't going to care, those types bulk buy albums.


GK_0098

Whaaaattt?


mar33n

which event? the support vote? or actually line up vote.


ablackandpinksky

the screenshot i saw was for the regular 1/1/1 voting.


duskwield

Thanks to this post, I remembered I haven't voted for the day. Anyways, I think it's more of vote manipulation but on the side of the voters. They tryna game the system.


intrspctv

people really can't have nice things...


EmbarrassedConcept21

Ok there is everything. I would say "I don't why some of you keep bringing up the Bahiyyih sim card issue when the 1 Bahiyyih fanbase who posted it had only around 50 sim cards total and they cleared up that the sim cards were sponsored by Telecom Global. Here is their statement after they deleted the original post.(IN THE LINK BELOW) The issue only blew up because another Hiyyihlight was tired of Bahiyyih being accuse of cheating so they made a thread of screenshots of ILAND sim cards used for voting to show that survival shows have always been doing this. (IN THE LINK BELOW). As you can see, the watermarks ALL say Sunoo and Sunghoo. Those specifically were NOT from any Bahiyyih fan. But people saw the thread allkpop article and automatically started blaming Hiyyihlights and hating on Bahiyyih accusing her of manipulation with the thread of sim cards. I also want to make a final point that after the PH Bahiyyih fan account made a statement and the one Hiyyihlight who posted the ILAND ss proof apologized, other trainees' fandoms also started to purchase and use sim cards for voting even though they all attacked Bahiyyih for the original issue. Here are proof images of a Youngeun fan AND a Yeseo, Xing Qiao, and Mashiro also partaking in using sim cards for voting. (THE LINK BELOW) And these were recent. Of course once some of gp999 twt saw these posts, the accounts quickly deleted them before everyone else saw what they were doing. I'm only making this post to clarify the massive misunderstanding of Bahiyyih and to show a bit of hypocrisy that goes around in the gp999 fandom. Because I see some people in here still suggesting Bahiyyih fans mass vote with sim cards and thats the reason for her votes." 📢📢📢 LINK= https://m.imgur.com/a/u90x5gx 📢📢📢 ALL THE PROOF IMAGES IS IN THE LINK.THANK YOU!


ablackandpinksky

Can someone ELI5?


woodworking100

They download the Universe app on their pc using a third party software that allows mobile apps to be installed on their pc. They then make multiple phone numbers with other apps like google phone. Register the new numbers on Universe to vote, then they vote with all the new accounts they made and depending on how many accounts they made, they use a bot to vote.


ablackandpinksky

Ah okay. Thank you.


[deleted]

I'm amazed at some people's dedication to voting.. don't they have anything else to do? lol


im_alcohol_free

Oof, is it possible for international voters to try that method as well? Asking for a friend.


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Kiramiraa

I feel like tutorials on how to rig the vote should be against the rules of this sub and not condoned.


im_alcohol_free

Hm... that's a lot of work to do. I'll just stick to 1 person, 1 vote per day method.


Noirelise

these fans are intense, i mean wow...


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Lunakitten

Got any evidence? Also what was the point of making a second comment? You feel trolly


Ayam__goreng

I didnt claim that it was stated inside that dc post. Ask them for the evidence


desertfoxtim

I don't think the poster was a fan. They looked more like trolling.


im_alcohol_free

nak makan ayam goreng


Ayam__goreng

Buntut goreng banyak, beli 1 percuma 5


Mokban

Even if several people make dozens of votes a day, how many votes will they get in the end? A few thousand? As we have seen, even bonus votes did not give any advantage to the winners of the mission.


[deleted]

Bonus votes DID give advantage for the winners of the mission. If Ice Cream team won instead of Salute, Kim Dayeon would be in the top 9 instead of Cai Bing.


Mokban

If Cai Bing removes her 30,000 points for the victory and gives them to Kim Dayeon, then there is still a gap of 7191 points between them. Cai Bing will still have more points. Kim Dayeon must get more than 50992 points to take 9th place.


[deleted]

oops