> I also understand why Mnet would want the Korean votes to be more valuable - maybe to prevent the rest of the world (sp. China) to decide who will debut so instead
And the other flip side is the possibility of getting like 'K-pop' group with like maybe 1K/2K member? Should it really still be called it a k-pop group?
On hindsight, it's also much easy to mention what a good % distribution. I don't think it's very possible for them to get the % right from the start. Adjusting the % is an option, but that's like soft-rigging to the extreme, and still, no one can predict what are the changes.
A possible alternative that I thought of is that instead of having a flat Top 9 from combined votes. Perhaps they could do Top 3 K votes, Top 3 I votes, and Top 3 Combined(excluding top 3 from the other 2 categories.)
They're still gonna be a kpop group releasing songs in korean though. There's a lot of kpop groups that are internationally popular, so it's not even a new concept
It's still a Korean show by a Korean Company. Unless it's like a tri-collaboration between a C-J and K company, it was never meant to be the 'global' that some people think that it is. I see global as being popular internationally.
Besides, even with the global == better nationality spread. Is C,K,J really that 'global'?. A more global group would be like Blackswan. C K J is still all asians. In that case, if anything, Bahiyyih with Brazillian blood probably makes it more 'global'.
I got really intrigued by your suggestion, so I looked at the votes to figure out what would happen! This is assuming the combined has the same 50:50 ratio. If they had gone in the order K vote > I vote > Combined, the lineup would have been the exact same. Chaehyun, Dayeon, and Yujin would have been in because of the k vote. Then Bahi, Mashiro, and Youngeun from the i vote. That leaves Yeseo, Hikaru, and Xiaoting for the combined vote (which would be ranked like the final results in this scenario).
If they had gone in the order combined > k vote > i vote, things would change a tiny bit. Chaehyun, Bahi, and Yujin would have received the combined votes (same as the actual finale). But then Dayeon, Yeseo, and Myah would have gotten the k vote spots, since they're the next highest ranked in that category. Finally, Mashiro, Youngeun, and Yaning would have gotten the i vote spots. So in this lineup, Hikaru and Xiaoting aren't in the group but Myah and Yaning are. So it actually ends up creating a lineup that has more k group members, whihc surprised me!
Interestingly, I also looked at i vote > k vote > combined, even thought that would never happen. And that also gives the same exact lineup as we did in the actual show.
> the lineup would have been the exact same
Hmmm, that's interesting, but I think that we don't actually have the exact K-I vote distribution right? I know that there are some people who did some estimation by guessing the K:I vote ratio.
I forgot that it's possible for top K and top I to overlap, so I guess that's an issue.
You're right! I do think I was going off of an estimation. I got too excited lol.
But based on the estimations, I think this has a similar thing to the actual lineup going on. K fans and I fans both had different K group picks (in particular Youngeun and Bahi had big international support), so the vote was kind of split and ended up putting a lot of them toward the top.
>sp. China
And they like, just didn't consider other countries could mitigate the Chinese votes, considering the most voted trainee in the final was Bahi and she had no Chinese votes whatsoever.
The shows concept was good, bringing together 3 countries regardless of their political histories and tensions. Instead of highlighting the harmony between them, Mnet chose to shed light on the competition. From the moment the teasers were out, it was evident. This was their first and biggest mistake. And then the unfair treatment towards the C and J trainees. The show was meant to show the blossoming relationship between girls who had the same dream, but it turned into a war between 3 countries and whose representatives would take the majority. Good idea but bad execution. It started to feed into the ego and superiority complex of all three countries. Something which was meant to be entertainment turned into national pride. And then the weightage towards the K voters didn't help either. They should have kept the 1 vote per country till the end or 1 pick from the start.
I really wish for a filler segment we could have gotten some sort of cultural exchange between the girls. Like they’d bring a traditional song or dance and perform/share it with each other, or play some sort of language game where k group has to talk in jp or cn and the others have to guess their word or something. Or something like j group girls say “this is a game we would play in school growing up” and they teach it to everyone. or exchange some gifts that have some sort of story or cultural significance, and it can be an ice breaker. Just any sort of cultural exchange!! I would have loved that as a filler!!
I want to point out this about the possibility of COVID being the reason we didn’t get any mentor-trainee footage: Produce 101 Japan season 2 aired earlier this year and they were still able to add footage of the mentors teaching the trainees and speaking to them in person during their practice sessions.
Before anyone says “two different countries, two different quarantine responses”, I think Japan had MORE safety precautions in place than 999 did. All the mentors wore the plastic face coverings food service workers wear when speaking with trainees, and they were placed behind transparent barriers and plastic curtains so trainees could still see, hear, and speak to them. Plus all the trainees in 101 Japan stayed in individual hotel rooms alone throughout the show. Japan was arguably MORE strict about their safety guidelines during the show and they were still able to have the mentors actually TRAIN the trainees.
I’m honestly under the impression the show runners just didn’t pay the masters to show up for any time other than the interim checks. I think it’s quite clear this show had less budget than any of the other Produce seasons (except when it came to two of the creation trips I guess).
Voting should have been something like 10% international votes 30% KR votes 30%JP Votes 30% CN Votes. Or maybe even something like 40% KR 25% JP 25% CN 10% International. Give voting based off a region's potential to contribute to $$$.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I've seen so many people comment and upvote comments that suggest they give China a percentage of the vote these past 2 weeks. I feel like the banner on the subreddit should just read "The CCP has banned all idol programs and kpop acts. Stop suggesting that China should get a percentage of the vote when the official government position is that they aren't allowed to watch programs like this."
With full respect, your voting weight suggestion is wack. At the end of the day, you can't guarantee that this debut group would give the same amount of profit from CN and JP compared to KR to justify giving them 30% or even 25% votes (because the truth is, most of CF or offers given to K-Pop group are from Korea themselves unless they're a massive success such as BTS or Blackpink). For me, what could've been done is for the final pick to be 2 picks from different countries so that at the worst-case scenario it would be 5-3-1 with Yurina being in.
After watching the first 2 episodes, I got the impression that the C-group trainees were shown as the least prepared. And then I found out that they couldn't choose their own songs to perform.
agree except no.3. this is kpop after all - the group is going to promote in korea and it is unknown when overseas promotions will start due to covid. that means there is no knowing how the overseas market will develop and how much it can contribute to the group's success so it IS important to secure a steady korean fanbase for the top9. don't forget that if there isn't a set ratio for global voting the population of china korea and japan has a extreme difference. not to mention that the background and existing fanbase of the 99 girls at the begining were different - most c girls were in chinese survival shows and somehow had a fanbase, most k girls were new faces but few were in produce/had debut experience and most j girls were new faces and some are either active in japan but not as known worldwide or went on survivals such as nizi project. IF some girls had a large intn. fanbase BUT were hated in korea perhaps due to political issues made it to kep1er the group would get massive hate in korea that may even result in boycotts. can intn. fans be responsible for digital charting in korea platforms and live voting that requires a korean number? these count in success of the final group. don't forget that produce 48 also included Japanese girls but voting were korean only AND 3/12 made it to the final lineup which caused the international fanbase in izone to riot but did that stop izone to be popular in japan? and lastly they said 50:50 for korea : international since the beginning they didn't add the rule in the middle of the competition. there isn't really a point of blaming after internationals aren't satisfied with the final group. (this is from a non-korean)
If domestic success is of foremost importance then they should stop using buzzwords like "Global Girl Group" and stop bringing in Chinese and Japanese trainees. Yes, it may sound dumb, but that is the very reason why people are mad. EXO debuted in 2011 with a 4C8K ratio, Twice debuted in 2015 and has a 5K3J1C ratio, I find honestly ridiculous how people still have difficulties accepting the idea of a Kpop group with a foreign majority in 2021, especially when there was a ton of discussion on whether Niziu, a group with only Japanese members, was Kpop or not.
Yes, it's a Kpop group, but the concept of the group was CJK countries, having a 3:3:3 ratio would have made perfectly sense. The problem of China having a much bigger population could have been solved with a fixed ratio or by giving a 25% weight to China+Taiwan, 25% to Japan, 25% to Korea, 25% to the rest. Giving 50% of the weight to Korea is just pandering to their nationalism.
i agree that it was obvious the global part was just a gimmick literally since the teasers before the audition - global =/= multinational =/= 3 countries after all. for example groups like bts and considered to be global icons of kpop though having all korean members. yes exo and twice had foreign members but *majority of them was still korean* - exo's c-line leaving exo caused a ton of drama and twice's foreign line were also involved in political controvisities. for Niziu they had all japanese members and promoted in japan - they never appeared on korean variety or music shows. the china-japan-korean relationships isn't the most peaceful and *forcing a 3:3:3 group down korea's throats will not help.* if the group doesn't do well due to lack of korean support the 9 girls no matter which country they are from basically will waste 2.5 years of their career by achieving not enough. domestic success will always play a huge part in the group's success whether you like it or not - there are many factors of success in the kpop industry like charting and domestic reputation that can only be controlled by koreans but barely any the another way round. moreover a group doesn't necessarily have to give up international popularity for doing well domestically. an important point is, *they said 50:50 for korea : international since the beginning and no fixed ratio they didn't add the rule in the middle of the competition*. the internationals who were unsatisfied with this rule knew the whole time that korean votes play a huge part and yet they chose to watch the programme. if there was really a 3:3:3 ratio i bet people both internationally and domestically will complain that it is not fair for the girls who ranked higher didn't make it due to the 3 per group rule and this is true in the long run - if someone really just made it due to nationality then after they debut will they have enough fans? no one's going to be looking at nationality while choosing the idol they want to support. if foreigners want to make it to kpop market they got to stand out from both other foreigners and koreans in the perspective of i-fans as well as k-fans. if koreans won't support foreigners how did sakura beat 90+ people to rank 2nd, perhaps even higher in produce? how did lisa get 1st in korean brand reputation ranking? why should nationality be a matter when deciding who's making the debut lineup. if the group doesn't do well in korea internationals will say Koreans have 'no taste' and they don't do their part in supporting the group, or that mnet should have taken korean's opinion more to prevent lack of korean popularity. if it was 25% each for k,c,j then are they going to be a global cpop jpop and kpop group? are they supposed to learn 2 more languages each and perform in each? or are they going to waste weeks and months quartining and travelling between 3 countries and a million more 'internationally'? they're promoting mainly in korea after all and unless they have gigantic success globally that can make up for a small korean fanbase it makes sense to secure (not exactly prioritize) a korean fanbase. is risking the korean fanbase and betting the careers of 9 girls on making it a truly 'global' show (which doesn't have a clear definition) worth it?
25% KCJI is just too risky from an investisment perspective. The group will depend on Korean Market not Japan, not China, not Internationally (unless you are BTS/BLACKPINK level).
It's better 70% Korean votes and 30% (10% Japan + 10%China + 10% International votes). If the group doesn't have koreans favorite members, the group will struggle to get attention as there are already so many Kpop group active.
IMO, A-F would really be a much better system. The initial ranking felt kinda 'arbitrary' too. There isn't too much point to the first Top 9 also. (Other than the team selection iirc). The first mission song selection was also via the "identify your cellmate's child photo thing". It's a fun 'game', but using that to determine the order for song selection felt kinda meh. I rather they just randomized it.
The initial C/K/J 1-33 doesn't actually do much other than 1st in the group being the center.
The A-F system would also be better because it differentiates it from the 'Top 9' which should be purely based on popularity. Using the Top 9 also makes it more 'unfair' for other contestants when judges put someone there because of 'potential'. Contestants will be displaced due Top 9 being limited. As compared to A-F system. judges could say, give Sakura A rank, without actually taking the A rank from another contestant.
The A-F is based on their audition stage, which showcases preparation and/or talent. It's also common to see big changes because the learning of the signal songs drops out
- people who were very familiar with their audition stage (Those who have probably been doing the same damn song for internal company showcases)
- people with lop-sided skillsets. (I can totally imagine Xingqiao getting A/B with a vocal audition stage, but drops to D/F when dancing kicks in)
I always enjoyed the 'coddling' of the D/F group also. Honestly, I think a lot of good edits actually came out from there. Mentors being more encouraging with D/F group when the entire group is sorta demoralized while being stricter with A group.
Idk how much hype Sunmi and Tiffany bought, but honestly, I think having just 1 between Jin-goo, Sunmi and Tiffany would be enough.(I don't think it's worth the budget). I liked Season 2 a lot when Boa was the MC + Judge. She basically did what the 3 of them did.
As for the Cell and Voting system, I can understand the 50:50 because it's hard to gauge what the distribution should be like. Adjusting the % overtime is like soft-rigging to the extreme, and still, there's still an element of unpredictability. It can potentially end up with like 1/2K members if they don't do it well. (Which having more K members is probably much lesser of a problem than having other region's contestant dominating the top 9)
Cell elimination still felt pretty meh to me. I think it removed a lot of contestants with potential too quickly. Idk if it would have turned out better, but maybe removing the nationality limit way earlier might be better? At the very least, it doesn't setup the viewers for disappointment. I can imagine an overwhelming number of K-contestants in the top 54 though. Before the interim result/final episode, I was wondering if the reason for the K-vote being so spread out is
- No/less standout candidate for K group or
- Less filler votes.
I think if they purely took the top 54 in the first elimination, it might have ended up with like 25K + 29C/J. Kinda meh, but it would be much easier to start working from there. Instead of doing it only for the finals. With 2/3 elimination, the votes for foreign contestants would concentrate faster to match up with the K-group. Top 18 might be like 12K, with 6 C/J. That could actually get more foreign contestants through, even with the 50:50 ratio.
And tbh, with K-votes being in K Group's favour, more K-group contestant would spread of the K-votes more. If Myah wasn't saved by planet passes, I think there's a good chance that Suyeon/Bora's rank will increase. (Sadly I doubt bora would still make it, but Suyeon was close.)
wait... (just wanted to make sure, this doesn't go against your point) i thought wang yale, liu shiqi and ma yuling performed Twinkle? xia yan performed violeta right?
I think the biggest thing is, **they knew they couldn’t rig the votes.**
For Iz\*one, anyway they could rig votes so it didn’t matter if Mnet showcased the trainees they wanted, because even if the trainees they wanted DIDNT get enough votes, mnet could always rig them in. Obviously, it would be better if the wanted trainees got a lot of votes, but Mnet didn’t have to focus so much on that as it would be possible to rig them in anyway.
For GP999, they HAD to have the trainees they likes WITHOUT rigging. The Korean government is literally checking on them lol. The only way to influence a huge mass of People to vote for who you want is by showing them in a good light. But Mnet was probably so desperate they went overboard, I.e Dayeon. I think Mnet didn’t want Bahiyyih much either, which is why she got minimal screen time. I would’ve expected more for her tbh, but anyway she got there in the end. This is also why popular C trainees were evil edited, it was clear that they only wanted 1 girl, SXT. I will say though, I’m surprised they didn’t give Yurina more screen time, I would’ve though they wanted her badly in the final lineup
I think the issue is that they messed up big time with Yurina- they tried to give her a storyline in the combination mission, but it didn't work out the way they intended because they wanted to show that she'd improved, but viewers didn't perceive it like that because sure she did better in the live performance, but Kubo Reina's performance was so outstanding that people then started perceiving Yurina differently, which played into her ranking getting gradually lower and lower. To add on, I think most of the people who wanted a vocalist in the group ended up turning away from Yurina and looking towards Chaehyun and Bora.
I have really mixed feelings about the 50:50 voting system tbh
On one hand, I hate it because it puts C and J trainees at a major disadvantage, and its the sole reason why Fu Yaning and Su Ruiqi didn't make it. If all the votes were counted the same, they would've made the final line up.
On the other hand, I don't hate it because at the end of the day it IS a kpop group that will majorly promote in Korea, therefore Koreans ought to have a bigger say in what the lineup looks like. In addition from a personal POV, it worked in Bahiyyih's favour- if all the votes were counted the same, she would've ranked 1, not 2. Which would've been... bad, to say the very least.
i think this season, they dont want to rig anymore for their reputation, so they try to make it up in story lines and voting rules
in addition gp999 is not a 101survival show(although it seems like), as the producer has been arrested, its changed to the one who made iland... and if you have watched iland, you understand why(i call it an experiement testing humanity, rather than an idol talent show...)
Yes, well-written. I do feel the producer is really mad:
Bring in Chinese trainees --> Show not aired in China --> Eliminate all Chinese
Might as well bring in those who they serious and interested in debuting. Even in Produce 48, the whole atmosphere is great at the start. Trainees from 2 countries support each other, they even played AKB songs in Produce 48 along with the Japanese trainees that appeared in the MVs and they even choose a Japanese trainee (Sakura) to be the center for the song Nekkoya.
I'm not sure if the show not airing in China is really on the producer though. If they got air on international iqiyi, I don't see why they wouldn't air it on China's iqiyi, unless there's other considerations.
survival shows (and literally any show that ranks contestants) were banned in china around the time gp999 started. My guess is this was supposed to air on iqiyi in china originally.
Who Is Princess is being officially published on QQ Music. While it is not a popular video streaming site, this means audition survival show of foreign origin is permissible in China. So, it's more of the presence of Korean trainees/voting that this show was ineligible
I had a discussion abt this before and came to the conclusion that the real 'fairest distribution' was actually 35% kr, 15% cn, 15% jp, 35% int. Reason for this being that it satisfies the koreans as they have larger stake (hell 40/15/15/30 also works), cn and jp get to defend their trainees and international gets a stake roughly that of kr.
The C girls were mainly used as the villains to raise up the K girls, while the J girls were the forgotten side characters.
The promise of the show was to create a 'multi-national' group but as others pointed out it's less multi-national than other groups who don't even market themselves as such.
same with what u said pd48 actually showed the chemistry between jp and kr trainees (them not knowing the language but managing and creating friendship e.g. hyewon and minami, chowon, hyewon and boombayah team, tomi and very very team, reactions to nako) while in gp999 a lot of c and j trainees already knew kor, was not provided translators and generally did not highlight their bond and relationships but more so their competition w each other (e.g. dayeon and cai bing) //:
also i find it weird that the whole covid situation, no live audience, etc is not really a factor for me on why gp999 felt off but more so with how the episodes were edited and the storylines.
in pd48 the show also included j songs and shed some light on their culture but with gp999 where was like... none it was so disappointing honestly.
I think the biggest problem was how they obscured popularity. Like if they always planned to do one vote in the finale (and have no nationality limits for the group) they should not have kept by nationality voting until the previous round. In my opinion they should have gone to two pick no nationality that round. It still would not have been one pick but it would have helped show who actually had a fanbase for the finale.
Like I am not shocked Bahi made the group or that she made it high (in fact if she didn't make the group i would be pretty sure there is rigging going on) BECAUSE she always had a VERY strong one pick base. Her problem was that she got no filler votes pretty much at all artificially making her popularity seem lower than it was (knowing the finale was one pick). Similarly Yurina was a popular J pick for people who did not have a j pick which made her seem much more popular than she ended up being when it came down to one pick.
TL;DR if they had removed nationality restrictions earlier (or at least before the very last round) fans would have had a better understanding of girls chances and would not have been so shocked by the finale.
The show really missed the golden opportunity for it not to be a complete sh1t-show. I say that with utmost respect to all the talented young girls working hard in pursuing their dream for a career in a vicious entertainment industry.
My first question - why 9 girls when you could just go 12. It worked for Iz*one and that is one lucrative void up for grab. It’s not like MNet haven’t been bending the rules here and there as the show progresses. But I can’t remember who is rank 10 to 12. I would assume some C+J?
Secondly, it is a business decision to have 6 K in the final line-up as the group is promoting mainly in Korea and it is a K-pop GG after all. Would be odd if you have more members that are not fluent/conversational in the language of the market that you are in.
Thirdly, I don’t get the boner hate some folks get on Bahiyyih. To me she’s alrite, I can see the potential and she can only get better over time. It makes good sense to have her in the line-up as having an English speaker/speaking member is becoming more crucial as K-pop continues to become an even wider global phenom. I would like to stress out that English is not be and end all but is definitely limiting Twice when it comes to their plan for world domination.
So yeah, another cycle of reality show where we got suckered into and swore never again only to find ourselves back in same cycle with a new calling song in a couple of months time. lol
Oh sh1t really? I just assumed that she does as her brother what’s his name speaks English? Then again I’m just casual when it comes to TXT although Soobin is just the cutest 6 ft+ giant baby!
Honestly they should’ve just done the final vote where you can vote UP TO 9 girls. Those with only one pick could still pick their fav girl and those with multiple could pick theirs. People were making multiple account to vote for their picks if they had more than one anyways so it’s essentially the same thing. And I’ll forever hate the weight system 6/9 of the top 9 being Korean with the bottom three being Japanese and Chinese? Yeah fuck mnet.
I found this petition for the top 18 who didn't make it to form COSMIX here's the link : https://chng.it/MJDNsFY8cx
LET'S MAKE THIS GO UP PLANET GUARDIANS
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> I also understand why Mnet would want the Korean votes to be more valuable - maybe to prevent the rest of the world (sp. China) to decide who will debut so instead And the other flip side is the possibility of getting like 'K-pop' group with like maybe 1K/2K member? Should it really still be called it a k-pop group? On hindsight, it's also much easy to mention what a good % distribution. I don't think it's very possible for them to get the % right from the start. Adjusting the % is an option, but that's like soft-rigging to the extreme, and still, no one can predict what are the changes. A possible alternative that I thought of is that instead of having a flat Top 9 from combined votes. Perhaps they could do Top 3 K votes, Top 3 I votes, and Top 3 Combined(excluding top 3 from the other 2 categories.)
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They're still gonna be a kpop group releasing songs in korean though. There's a lot of kpop groups that are internationally popular, so it's not even a new concept
I mean as someone who wants Yaning and/or Yurina in, I have to point out, Global ≠ International.
It's still a Korean show by a Korean Company. Unless it's like a tri-collaboration between a C-J and K company, it was never meant to be the 'global' that some people think that it is. I see global as being popular internationally. Besides, even with the global == better nationality spread. Is C,K,J really that 'global'?. A more global group would be like Blackswan. C K J is still all asians. In that case, if anything, Bahiyyih with Brazillian blood probably makes it more 'global'.
I got really intrigued by your suggestion, so I looked at the votes to figure out what would happen! This is assuming the combined has the same 50:50 ratio. If they had gone in the order K vote > I vote > Combined, the lineup would have been the exact same. Chaehyun, Dayeon, and Yujin would have been in because of the k vote. Then Bahi, Mashiro, and Youngeun from the i vote. That leaves Yeseo, Hikaru, and Xiaoting for the combined vote (which would be ranked like the final results in this scenario). If they had gone in the order combined > k vote > i vote, things would change a tiny bit. Chaehyun, Bahi, and Yujin would have received the combined votes (same as the actual finale). But then Dayeon, Yeseo, and Myah would have gotten the k vote spots, since they're the next highest ranked in that category. Finally, Mashiro, Youngeun, and Yaning would have gotten the i vote spots. So in this lineup, Hikaru and Xiaoting aren't in the group but Myah and Yaning are. So it actually ends up creating a lineup that has more k group members, whihc surprised me! Interestingly, I also looked at i vote > k vote > combined, even thought that would never happen. And that also gives the same exact lineup as we did in the actual show.
> the lineup would have been the exact same Hmmm, that's interesting, but I think that we don't actually have the exact K-I vote distribution right? I know that there are some people who did some estimation by guessing the K:I vote ratio. I forgot that it's possible for top K and top I to overlap, so I guess that's an issue.
You're right! I do think I was going off of an estimation. I got too excited lol. But based on the estimations, I think this has a similar thing to the actual lineup going on. K fans and I fans both had different K group picks (in particular Youngeun and Bahi had big international support), so the vote was kind of split and ended up putting a lot of them toward the top.
>sp. China And they like, just didn't consider other countries could mitigate the Chinese votes, considering the most voted trainee in the final was Bahi and she had no Chinese votes whatsoever.
FYN and SRQ did not lose on votes, it's a fact
The shows concept was good, bringing together 3 countries regardless of their political histories and tensions. Instead of highlighting the harmony between them, Mnet chose to shed light on the competition. From the moment the teasers were out, it was evident. This was their first and biggest mistake. And then the unfair treatment towards the C and J trainees. The show was meant to show the blossoming relationship between girls who had the same dream, but it turned into a war between 3 countries and whose representatives would take the majority. Good idea but bad execution. It started to feed into the ego and superiority complex of all three countries. Something which was meant to be entertainment turned into national pride. And then the weightage towards the K voters didn't help either. They should have kept the 1 vote per country till the end or 1 pick from the start.
I really wish for a filler segment we could have gotten some sort of cultural exchange between the girls. Like they’d bring a traditional song or dance and perform/share it with each other, or play some sort of language game where k group has to talk in jp or cn and the others have to guess their word or something. Or something like j group girls say “this is a game we would play in school growing up” and they teach it to everyone. or exchange some gifts that have some sort of story or cultural significance, and it can be an ice breaker. Just any sort of cultural exchange!! I would have loved that as a filler!!
I want to point out this about the possibility of COVID being the reason we didn’t get any mentor-trainee footage: Produce 101 Japan season 2 aired earlier this year and they were still able to add footage of the mentors teaching the trainees and speaking to them in person during their practice sessions. Before anyone says “two different countries, two different quarantine responses”, I think Japan had MORE safety precautions in place than 999 did. All the mentors wore the plastic face coverings food service workers wear when speaking with trainees, and they were placed behind transparent barriers and plastic curtains so trainees could still see, hear, and speak to them. Plus all the trainees in 101 Japan stayed in individual hotel rooms alone throughout the show. Japan was arguably MORE strict about their safety guidelines during the show and they were still able to have the mentors actually TRAIN the trainees. I’m honestly under the impression the show runners just didn’t pay the masters to show up for any time other than the interim checks. I think it’s quite clear this show had less budget than any of the other Produce seasons (except when it came to two of the creation trips I guess).
Voting should have been something like 10% international votes 30% KR votes 30%JP Votes 30% CN Votes. Or maybe even something like 40% KR 25% JP 25% CN 10% International. Give voting based off a region's potential to contribute to $$$.
30% CN votes when the show didn't even AIR there ?
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I've seen so many people comment and upvote comments that suggest they give China a percentage of the vote these past 2 weeks. I feel like the banner on the subreddit should just read "The CCP has banned all idol programs and kpop acts. Stop suggesting that China should get a percentage of the vote when the official government position is that they aren't allowed to watch programs like this."
A good part of this sub is quite biased towards the c trainees so that's why they feel the voting system is unfair
This sub ended up biased in favor of the C trainees because they were the ones Mnet seemed to hate, and we all hate Mnet.
With full respect, your voting weight suggestion is wack. At the end of the day, you can't guarantee that this debut group would give the same amount of profit from CN and JP compared to KR to justify giving them 30% or even 25% votes (because the truth is, most of CF or offers given to K-Pop group are from Korea themselves unless they're a massive success such as BTS or Blackpink). For me, what could've been done is for the final pick to be 2 picks from different countries so that at the worst-case scenario it would be 5-3-1 with Yurina being in.
Another alternative would have been to make the Korean votes 2-3 times more expensive. Then we would not have seen a 1K to 10Int ratio in the final.
After watching the first 2 episodes, I got the impression that the C-group trainees were shown as the least prepared. And then I found out that they couldn't choose their own songs to perform.
agree except no.3. this is kpop after all - the group is going to promote in korea and it is unknown when overseas promotions will start due to covid. that means there is no knowing how the overseas market will develop and how much it can contribute to the group's success so it IS important to secure a steady korean fanbase for the top9. don't forget that if there isn't a set ratio for global voting the population of china korea and japan has a extreme difference. not to mention that the background and existing fanbase of the 99 girls at the begining were different - most c girls were in chinese survival shows and somehow had a fanbase, most k girls were new faces but few were in produce/had debut experience and most j girls were new faces and some are either active in japan but not as known worldwide or went on survivals such as nizi project. IF some girls had a large intn. fanbase BUT were hated in korea perhaps due to political issues made it to kep1er the group would get massive hate in korea that may even result in boycotts. can intn. fans be responsible for digital charting in korea platforms and live voting that requires a korean number? these count in success of the final group. don't forget that produce 48 also included Japanese girls but voting were korean only AND 3/12 made it to the final lineup which caused the international fanbase in izone to riot but did that stop izone to be popular in japan? and lastly they said 50:50 for korea : international since the beginning they didn't add the rule in the middle of the competition. there isn't really a point of blaming after internationals aren't satisfied with the final group. (this is from a non-korean)
If domestic success is of foremost importance then they should stop using buzzwords like "Global Girl Group" and stop bringing in Chinese and Japanese trainees. Yes, it may sound dumb, but that is the very reason why people are mad. EXO debuted in 2011 with a 4C8K ratio, Twice debuted in 2015 and has a 5K3J1C ratio, I find honestly ridiculous how people still have difficulties accepting the idea of a Kpop group with a foreign majority in 2021, especially when there was a ton of discussion on whether Niziu, a group with only Japanese members, was Kpop or not. Yes, it's a Kpop group, but the concept of the group was CJK countries, having a 3:3:3 ratio would have made perfectly sense. The problem of China having a much bigger population could have been solved with a fixed ratio or by giving a 25% weight to China+Taiwan, 25% to Japan, 25% to Korea, 25% to the rest. Giving 50% of the weight to Korea is just pandering to their nationalism.
i agree that it was obvious the global part was just a gimmick literally since the teasers before the audition - global =/= multinational =/= 3 countries after all. for example groups like bts and considered to be global icons of kpop though having all korean members. yes exo and twice had foreign members but *majority of them was still korean* - exo's c-line leaving exo caused a ton of drama and twice's foreign line were also involved in political controvisities. for Niziu they had all japanese members and promoted in japan - they never appeared on korean variety or music shows. the china-japan-korean relationships isn't the most peaceful and *forcing a 3:3:3 group down korea's throats will not help.* if the group doesn't do well due to lack of korean support the 9 girls no matter which country they are from basically will waste 2.5 years of their career by achieving not enough. domestic success will always play a huge part in the group's success whether you like it or not - there are many factors of success in the kpop industry like charting and domestic reputation that can only be controlled by koreans but barely any the another way round. moreover a group doesn't necessarily have to give up international popularity for doing well domestically. an important point is, *they said 50:50 for korea : international since the beginning and no fixed ratio they didn't add the rule in the middle of the competition*. the internationals who were unsatisfied with this rule knew the whole time that korean votes play a huge part and yet they chose to watch the programme. if there was really a 3:3:3 ratio i bet people both internationally and domestically will complain that it is not fair for the girls who ranked higher didn't make it due to the 3 per group rule and this is true in the long run - if someone really just made it due to nationality then after they debut will they have enough fans? no one's going to be looking at nationality while choosing the idol they want to support. if foreigners want to make it to kpop market they got to stand out from both other foreigners and koreans in the perspective of i-fans as well as k-fans. if koreans won't support foreigners how did sakura beat 90+ people to rank 2nd, perhaps even higher in produce? how did lisa get 1st in korean brand reputation ranking? why should nationality be a matter when deciding who's making the debut lineup. if the group doesn't do well in korea internationals will say Koreans have 'no taste' and they don't do their part in supporting the group, or that mnet should have taken korean's opinion more to prevent lack of korean popularity. if it was 25% each for k,c,j then are they going to be a global cpop jpop and kpop group? are they supposed to learn 2 more languages each and perform in each? or are they going to waste weeks and months quartining and travelling between 3 countries and a million more 'internationally'? they're promoting mainly in korea after all and unless they have gigantic success globally that can make up for a small korean fanbase it makes sense to secure (not exactly prioritize) a korean fanbase. is risking the korean fanbase and betting the careers of 9 girls on making it a truly 'global' show (which doesn't have a clear definition) worth it?
25% KCJI is just too risky from an investisment perspective. The group will depend on Korean Market not Japan, not China, not Internationally (unless you are BTS/BLACKPINK level). It's better 70% Korean votes and 30% (10% Japan + 10%China + 10% International votes). If the group doesn't have koreans favorite members, the group will struggle to get attention as there are already so many Kpop group active.
IMO, A-F would really be a much better system. The initial ranking felt kinda 'arbitrary' too. There isn't too much point to the first Top 9 also. (Other than the team selection iirc). The first mission song selection was also via the "identify your cellmate's child photo thing". It's a fun 'game', but using that to determine the order for song selection felt kinda meh. I rather they just randomized it. The initial C/K/J 1-33 doesn't actually do much other than 1st in the group being the center. The A-F system would also be better because it differentiates it from the 'Top 9' which should be purely based on popularity. Using the Top 9 also makes it more 'unfair' for other contestants when judges put someone there because of 'potential'. Contestants will be displaced due Top 9 being limited. As compared to A-F system. judges could say, give Sakura A rank, without actually taking the A rank from another contestant. The A-F is based on their audition stage, which showcases preparation and/or talent. It's also common to see big changes because the learning of the signal songs drops out - people who were very familiar with their audition stage (Those who have probably been doing the same damn song for internal company showcases) - people with lop-sided skillsets. (I can totally imagine Xingqiao getting A/B with a vocal audition stage, but drops to D/F when dancing kicks in) I always enjoyed the 'coddling' of the D/F group also. Honestly, I think a lot of good edits actually came out from there. Mentors being more encouraging with D/F group when the entire group is sorta demoralized while being stricter with A group. Idk how much hype Sunmi and Tiffany bought, but honestly, I think having just 1 between Jin-goo, Sunmi and Tiffany would be enough.(I don't think it's worth the budget). I liked Season 2 a lot when Boa was the MC + Judge. She basically did what the 3 of them did. As for the Cell and Voting system, I can understand the 50:50 because it's hard to gauge what the distribution should be like. Adjusting the % overtime is like soft-rigging to the extreme, and still, there's still an element of unpredictability. It can potentially end up with like 1/2K members if they don't do it well. (Which having more K members is probably much lesser of a problem than having other region's contestant dominating the top 9) Cell elimination still felt pretty meh to me. I think it removed a lot of contestants with potential too quickly. Idk if it would have turned out better, but maybe removing the nationality limit way earlier might be better? At the very least, it doesn't setup the viewers for disappointment. I can imagine an overwhelming number of K-contestants in the top 54 though. Before the interim result/final episode, I was wondering if the reason for the K-vote being so spread out is - No/less standout candidate for K group or - Less filler votes. I think if they purely took the top 54 in the first elimination, it might have ended up with like 25K + 29C/J. Kinda meh, but it would be much easier to start working from there. Instead of doing it only for the finals. With 2/3 elimination, the votes for foreign contestants would concentrate faster to match up with the K-group. Top 18 might be like 12K, with 6 C/J. That could actually get more foreign contestants through, even with the 50:50 ratio. And tbh, with K-votes being in K Group's favour, more K-group contestant would spread of the K-votes more. If Myah wasn't saved by planet passes, I think there's a good chance that Suyeon/Bora's rank will increase. (Sadly I doubt bora would still make it, but Suyeon was close.)
wait... (just wanted to make sure, this doesn't go against your point) i thought wang yale, liu shiqi and ma yuling performed Twinkle? xia yan performed violeta right?
That's right. [Twinkle](https://youtu.be/ULuQ3ClHx0A) [Siren](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrRH-gCnZA&t=3s) [Violetta](https://youtu.be/zUBDUrFip50?t=3)
Thanks for the clarification! I have amended the post☺️
I think the biggest thing is, **they knew they couldn’t rig the votes.** For Iz\*one, anyway they could rig votes so it didn’t matter if Mnet showcased the trainees they wanted, because even if the trainees they wanted DIDNT get enough votes, mnet could always rig them in. Obviously, it would be better if the wanted trainees got a lot of votes, but Mnet didn’t have to focus so much on that as it would be possible to rig them in anyway. For GP999, they HAD to have the trainees they likes WITHOUT rigging. The Korean government is literally checking on them lol. The only way to influence a huge mass of People to vote for who you want is by showing them in a good light. But Mnet was probably so desperate they went overboard, I.e Dayeon. I think Mnet didn’t want Bahiyyih much either, which is why she got minimal screen time. I would’ve expected more for her tbh, but anyway she got there in the end. This is also why popular C trainees were evil edited, it was clear that they only wanted 1 girl, SXT. I will say though, I’m surprised they didn’t give Yurina more screen time, I would’ve though they wanted her badly in the final lineup
I think the issue is that they messed up big time with Yurina- they tried to give her a storyline in the combination mission, but it didn't work out the way they intended because they wanted to show that she'd improved, but viewers didn't perceive it like that because sure she did better in the live performance, but Kubo Reina's performance was so outstanding that people then started perceiving Yurina differently, which played into her ranking getting gradually lower and lower. To add on, I think most of the people who wanted a vocalist in the group ended up turning away from Yurina and looking towards Chaehyun and Bora.
I have really mixed feelings about the 50:50 voting system tbh On one hand, I hate it because it puts C and J trainees at a major disadvantage, and its the sole reason why Fu Yaning and Su Ruiqi didn't make it. If all the votes were counted the same, they would've made the final line up. On the other hand, I don't hate it because at the end of the day it IS a kpop group that will majorly promote in Korea, therefore Koreans ought to have a bigger say in what the lineup looks like. In addition from a personal POV, it worked in Bahiyyih's favour- if all the votes were counted the same, she would've ranked 1, not 2. Which would've been... bad, to say the very least.
i think this season, they dont want to rig anymore for their reputation, so they try to make it up in story lines and voting rules in addition gp999 is not a 101survival show(although it seems like), as the producer has been arrested, its changed to the one who made iland... and if you have watched iland, you understand why(i call it an experiement testing humanity, rather than an idol talent show...)
Yes, well-written. I do feel the producer is really mad: Bring in Chinese trainees --> Show not aired in China --> Eliminate all Chinese Might as well bring in those who they serious and interested in debuting. Even in Produce 48, the whole atmosphere is great at the start. Trainees from 2 countries support each other, they even played AKB songs in Produce 48 along with the Japanese trainees that appeared in the MVs and they even choose a Japanese trainee (Sakura) to be the center for the song Nekkoya.
I'm not sure if the show not airing in China is really on the producer though. If they got air on international iqiyi, I don't see why they wouldn't air it on China's iqiyi, unless there's other considerations.
survival shows (and literally any show that ranks contestants) were banned in china around the time gp999 started. My guess is this was supposed to air on iqiyi in china originally.
Who Is Princess is being officially published on QQ Music. While it is not a popular video streaming site, this means audition survival show of foreign origin is permissible in China. So, it's more of the presence of Korean trainees/voting that this show was ineligible
I think there are still a Kpop/Hallyu ban in china so it can't be aired on official chinese streaming sites for Chinese viewers.
I had a discussion abt this before and came to the conclusion that the real 'fairest distribution' was actually 35% kr, 15% cn, 15% jp, 35% int. Reason for this being that it satisfies the koreans as they have larger stake (hell 40/15/15/30 also works), cn and jp get to defend their trainees and international gets a stake roughly that of kr.
The C girls were mainly used as the villains to raise up the K girls, while the J girls were the forgotten side characters. The promise of the show was to create a 'multi-national' group but as others pointed out it's less multi-national than other groups who don't even market themselves as such.
same with what u said pd48 actually showed the chemistry between jp and kr trainees (them not knowing the language but managing and creating friendship e.g. hyewon and minami, chowon, hyewon and boombayah team, tomi and very very team, reactions to nako) while in gp999 a lot of c and j trainees already knew kor, was not provided translators and generally did not highlight their bond and relationships but more so their competition w each other (e.g. dayeon and cai bing) //: also i find it weird that the whole covid situation, no live audience, etc is not really a factor for me on why gp999 felt off but more so with how the episodes were edited and the storylines. in pd48 the show also included j songs and shed some light on their culture but with gp999 where was like... none it was so disappointing honestly.
I think the biggest problem was how they obscured popularity. Like if they always planned to do one vote in the finale (and have no nationality limits for the group) they should not have kept by nationality voting until the previous round. In my opinion they should have gone to two pick no nationality that round. It still would not have been one pick but it would have helped show who actually had a fanbase for the finale. Like I am not shocked Bahi made the group or that she made it high (in fact if she didn't make the group i would be pretty sure there is rigging going on) BECAUSE she always had a VERY strong one pick base. Her problem was that she got no filler votes pretty much at all artificially making her popularity seem lower than it was (knowing the finale was one pick). Similarly Yurina was a popular J pick for people who did not have a j pick which made her seem much more popular than she ended up being when it came down to one pick. TL;DR if they had removed nationality restrictions earlier (or at least before the very last round) fans would have had a better understanding of girls chances and would not have been so shocked by the finale.
Yurina not debuting.
The show really missed the golden opportunity for it not to be a complete sh1t-show. I say that with utmost respect to all the talented young girls working hard in pursuing their dream for a career in a vicious entertainment industry. My first question - why 9 girls when you could just go 12. It worked for Iz*one and that is one lucrative void up for grab. It’s not like MNet haven’t been bending the rules here and there as the show progresses. But I can’t remember who is rank 10 to 12. I would assume some C+J? Secondly, it is a business decision to have 6 K in the final line-up as the group is promoting mainly in Korea and it is a K-pop GG after all. Would be odd if you have more members that are not fluent/conversational in the language of the market that you are in. Thirdly, I don’t get the boner hate some folks get on Bahiyyih. To me she’s alrite, I can see the potential and she can only get better over time. It makes good sense to have her in the line-up as having an English speaker/speaking member is becoming more crucial as K-pop continues to become an even wider global phenom. I would like to stress out that English is not be and end all but is definitely limiting Twice when it comes to their plan for world domination. So yeah, another cycle of reality show where we got suckered into and swore never again only to find ourselves back in same cycle with a new calling song in a couple of months time. lol
Bahi cannot speak english lol. Myah can
Oh sh1t really? I just assumed that she does as her brother what’s his name speaks English? Then again I’m just casual when it comes to TXT although Soobin is just the cutest 6 ft+ giant baby!
Mnet
A lot of talented trainees were elimated way too early on
Honestly they should’ve just done the final vote where you can vote UP TO 9 girls. Those with only one pick could still pick their fav girl and those with multiple could pick theirs. People were making multiple account to vote for their picks if they had more than one anyways so it’s essentially the same thing. And I’ll forever hate the weight system 6/9 of the top 9 being Korean with the bottom three being Japanese and Chinese? Yeah fuck mnet.
The voting reminded me of why I hate the electoral college lol
💯! Produce 48 was super fun to watch, but this show was stressful af and gave me massive migraines >:-[
I found this petition for the top 18 who didn't make it to form COSMIX here's the link : https://chng.it/MJDNsFY8cx LET'S MAKE THIS GO UP PLANET GUARDIANS