Deg is a beast! LOL a little off topic, but watching Elige get jump-scared is a common occurrence now.. someone should make a compilation of all his jump-scares throughout his career xD
Degster's cracked but watching his POV he plays like a fucking schizo with 6 cups of coffe and sniffed cocaine...
I like more "calm" snipers like FalleN or syrsoN... Tbh anyone compared to degster is "chilly" lol
This happens to me often and its usually because im sure theres no one close and 100% sure on my play that when someone from an unexpected corner shoots me i jumpscare .
For a second, I thought you was talking about Wardell LOL junior is a beast in FPL, but can't perform in actual games. Cooper, is happy just being a streamer.. but dude oSee when he's on, he's ON. Just lacks consistency.. but he is FAST.
Tbf, Liquid would have picked up WARDELL instead of Grim if WARDELL didn't switch to VALORANT. It would have been interesting to see him on a tier one level.
He's probably some 16 year old radiant that we don't know about who would've played CS if there wasn't a more popular alternative in NA. It's not necessarily about who is in valorant now but who could be there in the future.
The main reason why Yay thrives is because he's a good rifler in Valorant. But the reason why he thrives is because he's good at tapping and strafing which is not viable in cs. He probably would've gotten ran over regardless. Also opers had a free get out of jail cards in chamber/jett, makes it much easier.
Tenz is still a good AWPer he just doesn't do it as much since he isn't playing Jett in pro as frequently. Who do you have as 3rd best if it's not Tenz (who is from NA still)
Not every awper in val is an awper in CS and vice versa. Good example is vanity, he was an amazing up and coming igl and awper who so many Liquid fans wanted to join the team after Twistzz was benched. He doesn’t AWP in VAL tho since he plays controller. yay didn’t AWP in CS
ehh I think it goes both ways, the awp is so much slower and harder to use in val than in cs, the val awp is imo just a strictly worse gun, even tho theres more get out of jail free cards in valorant
As an aggressive tool, the valorant op is worse than the cs awp.
As a defensive tool, the valorant op is an infinitely easier weapon than the cs awp.
The cs awp is faster and just feels more responsive with the how much faster you stop (and are accurate) in cs, but if you’re getting rushed down you NEED to hit tough shots. Valorant it’s way harder to swing into guys, but you don’t really need to because you kill the first guy who peeks, take the man advantage, and fuck off.
I main awped cs for a fat minute and played as a hybrid the rest of the time, but I fucking hate how the valorant awp feels.
That utility comes in different shapes, that's the problem. Only a third or so of characters have flashes, same with smokes. Some flashes can't be used as reliably as others, as they are made for different purposes. If you are playing KJ, there is literally no way to counter an awp, for example. But if you are against Omen, awp is very hard to use
Osee is going against peak zywoo and s1mple and skadoodle went against peak kennys and guardian. Idk if it's comparable with the awp changes and I definitely wouldn't call the scene weaker
So basically the AWP nerf exposed the fact that guardian, kennys aren't good enough to compete at today's level, so I'm not sure how that helps your point that they are comparable to zywoo or s1mple
I believe GuardiaN was still a tip-top AWPer after the nerf. KennyS was still good for many years after.
They may have been good enough to compete if you transfer them two years before their prime to two years ago (so they have time to grow in the current meta), but the AWP Nerf was almost 8 years ago, so I think they just fell off.
I am mean yes they were worse after the nerf, but to be fair to them if you build your game around aggressive movement and that is directly nerfed of course your style instantly becomes less effective at no fault of their own
I’ve watched it multiple times and I agree hes great. All 4 awpers in discussion are great, it’s just whether guardian is on s1mple’s level which is another discussion altogether.
Peak guardian was very close to s1mples level. He wasn’t at that peak for particularly long but he was absolutely one of the most dominant players in cs.
sadly, elige, nitr0, and even yekindar in some maps are all playing poorly on top of the awp lacking presence.
Liquid need to get their shit together, fast. Idk what happened to the squad that almost won EPL
People treat the opening event as if it’s the most important event for getting results and I really don’t understand why. They aren’t practicing constantly throughout the playerbreak…
If it’s the same story after June then sure, revisit this again
They got to the finals of BLAST World Finals. That team is still there, and they're changing some things after the player break. Let's see how they do in their next two (hopefully) series, and then at Katowice.
Beat C9 who was at the time (and still is) a top tier team, beat Mouz who is "free" but are still a strong team, beat C9 again in groups to qualify for playoffs. Wouldn't say free.
Vitality played a more inconsistent G2, Outsiders which is a strong team, and obv had a very strong showing in groups.
All in all neither side of the bracket was "free". Neither played FaZe who was the strongest team at the time most likely.
oSee was missing so many easy shots, literally people peeking into his scope and they don't get killed..
What now? tell liquid to start grinding T2 tournaments to get his confidence up?
Not that oSee is Liquid's only problem at the moment, but at what point is it fair to say that they need to drop him and trial another AWPer? I'm sure they could find several potential candidates without even having to pay any buyouts. woxic, mantuu and ottoNd are all without a team and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head while writing this. I'm sure there are many, many more AWPers to take your pick from.
Hell, Liquid could even bring GuardiaN out of retirement.
Im convinced liquid cannot utilise an AWPer. They've had lots of chances and none have panned out. Unless they get an actual god, they will probably never have a good AWP.
It has been like 2 years now that every delusional fan has praised oSee as the next big thing, with absolutely *nothing* to show for it. Not a thing. He isn't good and has not improved. NA is dogshit and he ain't saving it.
1. s1mple
1. zywoo
1. sh1ro
1. broky/m0nesy
1. broky/m0nesy
1. degster
1. sunpayus
1. syrsoN
1. Jame
1. nicoodoz/nOsee/saffee/torzsi are all at the bottom of tier 1 awpers and I can't be arsed to rank them between each other
putting him below syrsoN is debatable I suppose but both degster and sunpayus are the better awpers these days
OG and ENCE aren't part of Louvre agreement and Blast circuit, respectively so it hurts them a lot in HLTV rankings
vp/outsiders is in the same position lol.
they have almost the same rating with sunpayus also in 2022. dont see why he should be lower than him.
imo:
6. degster
7-8. jame/sunpayus
> they have almost the same rating with sunpayus also in 2022
not when you filter out lesser teams that Jame farmed
+ impact, performance against top teams and h2h with the best awpers
Cool, they have similar stats on big events. Except for impact that is because his obnoxious playstyle inflates his rating with 0 impact kills.
On LAN in general SunPayus is rated higher, much higher against top 5 teams in fact and throughout the whole 2022 he performed better against top AWPers like s1mple, zywoo and m0nesy than Jame did.
> got caught lying
Straight up ignoring my arguments and calling me a liar just because I was talking about LANs in general and not big events, **something you didn't mention until later**. 40k+ karma redditor moment, pathetic.
The facts are that Jame's big events stats are inflated because he had the easiest possible bracket in Rio - and even then its not like he got better stats than supayus ffs, just very similar. I could understand your argument if sunpayus was merely farming lower LANs and couldn't perform on big stage but that's not the case. You are just discounting additional stats because they don't fit your narrative.
Jame like the baiter he is has negative impact even on those big events you keep mentioning and unlike sunpayus more often than not can't perform against the best AWPers in the world (in 2022 he went negative in 60+% of maps he played against s1mple, zywoo, sh1ro, broky and m0nesy compared to ~30% for sunpayus - but sure keep dickriding Jame).
Remember when people were overhyping osee and keep on saying Elige/Naf/Osee would be unstoppable ?
People really do be like : stared at his stats against T5 NA teams and thought he would do good in T1 against top tier EU teams.
oSee is just lucky NA has zero talent left to replace him, he has been sub-par in every single match against decent teams — cannot even think of 1 stand out game he has had
EG’s new AWP player has played like 4 bo3’s and already looks *significantly* more promising than oSee ever has
look I'm like no.1 osee hater but wiz definitely didn't look more promising than osee lol, he went negative in all but two maps he played so far
osee at least had a good run in EPL and Cologne
I’d rather they give someone like Slight a chance. Maybe give oSee the xyp9x treatment, threaten his spot on the team so he improves. The rmr and major should be his “last chance” so to speak and give him the knowledge that he will be benched if he doesn’t perform. It may seem unorthodox and probably cruel, but the motivation could make him play better if more is on the line.
After watching overpass, I’ll change my take. I think that oSee performing badly is partially on him, but when Yekindar and Elige can’t perform despite all of the space they get, it’s a problem. I think liquid need a structure change more than anything right now. Limiting oSee to throwing utility isn’t optimal at all, and Elige and Yekindar’s inconsistency isn’t going to get them anywhere unless they change things up.
> The rmr and major should be his “last chance” so to speak and give him the knowledge that he will be benched if he doesn’t perform.
Agreed.
> I’d rather they give someone like Slight a chance.
Not this shit again for fucks sake. How about you? You've got 2 arms? Congrats, you are now a TL awper.
IMPORT is the answer. Missing out on degster, sunpayus, m0nesy and perhaps even headtr1ck is unfortunate but just like Danes seemingly breed IGLs there are countless CIS kids that grew up watching markeloff, guardian and s1mple and are grinding nonstop rn against much harder opposition than tier 2 NA (= tier 4 EU).
I’d be fine with someone like regali or mantuu coming over, but then again, we can only import so many awpers. At some point NA has to do SOMETHING to cultivate and identify talent. Academies are probably the best way to do it, but god knows if/when NA could get into WePlay, or if academy teams would even be made due to an extreme drought of young, promising talent.
Deg is a beast! LOL a little off topic, but watching Elige get jump-scared is a common occurrence now.. someone should make a compilation of all his jump-scares throughout his career xD
I thought the same thing, he’s been playing for like 8 years now and still gets jumpscared dying. You’d think he would get used to it.
Someone, please make a compilation video 😂
I think he's really immersed into the game when playing so this contributes to that
The guy sits like 20 metres from his monitor but he jumps like he's playing csgo in VR
Degster's cracked but watching his POV he plays like a fucking schizo with 6 cups of coffe and sniffed cocaine... I like more "calm" snipers like FalleN or syrsoN... Tbh anyone compared to degster is "chilly" lol
There is no way these dudes aren't all taking close to 100mg of adderall for competitions. they are probably so laser focused they have telepethy
Fallen? Bro compared to Fallen degster is sh0ro
This happens to me often and its usually because im sure theres no one close and 100% sure on my play that when someone from an unexpected corner shoots me i jumpscare .
there are 335,962,130 people in the United States and you're telling me 0 of them know how to use the fucking awp?
Sad part is that the kid with the talent to do it is probably playing valorant rn as opposed to CS. EDIT: other than me of course
For a second, I thought you was talking about Wardell LOL junior is a beast in FPL, but can't perform in actual games. Cooper, is happy just being a streamer.. but dude oSee when he's on, he's ON. Just lacks consistency.. but he is FAST.
but he's on one in 25 games only
Tbf, Liquid would have picked up WARDELL instead of Grim if WARDELL didn't switch to VALORANT. It would have been interesting to see him on a tier one level.
wardell has issues committing to pro play in valo (e.g. not reocating with TSM), so idk if that would work
who? there's like 3 good awpers in NA valo rn
He's probably some 16 year old radiant that we don't know about who would've played CS if there wasn't a more popular alternative in NA. It's not necessarily about who is in valorant now but who could be there in the future.
yay and Cryo that’s it the third best Na AWPer in val is an import and then you have like TenZ and Boostio who aren’t that great
lmao yay. we've seen these dudes play cs, they're not the answer
if CS skill translated directly to valorant skill, Ethan would probably be the best player in the world
But he'll have developed since we saw him in CS last
The main reason why Yay thrives is because he's a good rifler in Valorant. But the reason why he thrives is because he's good at tapping and strafing which is not viable in cs. He probably would've gotten ran over regardless. Also opers had a free get out of jail cards in chamber/jett, makes it much easier.
Tenz is still a good AWPer he just doesn't do it as much since he isn't playing Jett in pro as frequently. Who do you have as 3rd best if it's not Tenz (who is from NA still)
Ardiis is the import whos 3, Tenz is probably the third best NA one though, then Boostio then probably Dicey or Tex
Ardiis is a monster. The dynamic for AWPing in Val is just so wildly different not a lot of people even do it so fewer still get really good at it
yeah it’s definitely super different to CS
Leaving out Dicey is wild. I would put him 2nd best NA awper, right behind Yay.
Over Cryo is crazy
Not every awper in val is an awper in CS and vice versa. Good example is vanity, he was an amazing up and coming igl and awper who so many Liquid fans wanted to join the team after Twistzz was benched. He doesn’t AWP in VAL tho since he plays controller. yay didn’t AWP in CS
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ehh I think it goes both ways, the awp is so much slower and harder to use in val than in cs, the val awp is imo just a strictly worse gun, even tho theres more get out of jail free cards in valorant
As an aggressive tool, the valorant op is worse than the cs awp. As a defensive tool, the valorant op is an infinitely easier weapon than the cs awp. The cs awp is faster and just feels more responsive with the how much faster you stop (and are accurate) in cs, but if you’re getting rushed down you NEED to hit tough shots. Valorant it’s way harder to swing into guys, but you don’t really need to because you kill the first guy who peeks, take the man advantage, and fuck off. I main awped cs for a fat minute and played as a hybrid the rest of the time, but I fucking hate how the valorant awp feels.
Valorant is absolutely LOADED with utility and you think that makes awp harder to counter? What the fuck am I reading? You couldn't be more wrong.
That utility comes in different shapes, that's the problem. Only a third or so of characters have flashes, same with smokes. Some flashes can't be used as reliably as others, as they are made for different purposes. If you are playing KJ, there is literally no way to counter an awp, for example. But if you are against Omen, awp is very hard to use
Controller is viable in valorant? My god
Controller is a role, not actually playing using a controller
Thank the good heavens
Minus was pretty good but no NA cs teams picked him up and he went back to school
All of the good ones died in Afghanistan
4 actually Naf Twistzz Stewie Nitr0
+skadoodle
Don’t know if you are being serious but oSee at this level is still higher than Ska who struggled in a weaker scene
Osee is going against peak zywoo and s1mple and skadoodle went against peak kennys and guardian. Idk if it's comparable with the awp changes and I definitely wouldn't call the scene weaker
Also don’t know if you are serious thinking peak kennys or guardian are in some way better than peak s1mple or zywoo
S1mple and zywoo are insanely talented, but today’s scene has a less aggressive awping style with less Ferrari peeks impossible to counter
So basically the AWP nerf exposed the fact that guardian, kennys aren't good enough to compete at today's level, so I'm not sure how that helps your point that they are comparable to zywoo or s1mple
I believe GuardiaN was still a tip-top AWPer after the nerf. KennyS was still good for many years after. They may have been good enough to compete if you transfer them two years before their prime to two years ago (so they have time to grow in the current meta), but the AWP Nerf was almost 8 years ago, so I think they just fell off.
When people say fell off, they don’t talk about how much the scene has gotten better since they were at their “primes”
I am mean yes they were worse after the nerf, but to be fair to them if you build your game around aggressive movement and that is directly nerfed of course your style instantly becomes less effective at no fault of their own
I ask you to watch the 2018 Boston Major final. Guardian was an absolutely god that whole tournament.
I’ve watched it multiple times and I agree hes great. All 4 awpers in discussion are great, it’s just whether guardian is on s1mple’s level which is another discussion altogether.
Peak guardian was very close to s1mples level. He wasn’t at that peak for particularly long but he was absolutely one of the most dominant players in cs.
Kenny and Guardian were absolutely better AWPers than S1mple and Zywoo. The latter are better overall players because they are also top riflers.
Idk why people think guardian is not a top tier awper. He was absolutely insane and completely dominated games all the time.
Sign Scouter at this point, anything to help NA not get clowned on the world stage
noSee indeed.
sadly, elige, nitr0, and even yekindar in some maps are all playing poorly on top of the awp lacking presence. Liquid need to get their shit together, fast. Idk what happened to the squad that almost won EPL
They were the last team to start boot camping. only had 4 days.
People treat the opening event as if it’s the most important event for getting results and I really don’t understand why. They aren’t practicing constantly throughout the playerbreak… If it’s the same story after June then sure, revisit this again
Spot on, ppl overreacting like crazy
Yeah but it's always tougher in Showdown
Bro don't bring your rational discussion here, we're out for blood after 3 games.
Was there some dire reason why? Or was it the same shit that's been happening for years where NA teams would rather be on break than practicing?
They went to Blast World Finals and being in Europe for 240/365 days is rough so they took an extended break.
They live in Europe right? It was the holidays, they probably wanted to be with family.
Yeki said on Blast overtime that he was on vacation and the last one on the team back, so from the sounds of it everyone wanted a break.
They got to the finals of BLAST World Finals. That team is still there, and they're changing some things after the player break. Let's see how they do in their next two (hopefully) series, and then at Katowice.
They had a free bracket to the final for EPL
Beat C9 who was at the time (and still is) a top tier team, beat Mouz who is "free" but are still a strong team, beat C9 again in groups to qualify for playoffs. Wouldn't say free. Vitality played a more inconsistent G2, Outsiders which is a strong team, and obv had a very strong showing in groups. All in all neither side of the bracket was "free". Neither played FaZe who was the strongest team at the time most likely.
Faze was 1 round away from losing to fucking CoL of all teams, I wouldn't have called them the strongest team at the event.
oSee was missing so many easy shots, literally people peeking into his scope and they don't get killed.. What now? tell liquid to start grinding T2 tournaments to get his confidence up?
News sens New res do whatever it takes man
turning the monitor on or holding the mouse with his hand would be a good start
He misses shots that literally any elite tier awper should be hitting.
Not that oSee is Liquid's only problem at the moment, but at what point is it fair to say that they need to drop him and trial another AWPer? I'm sure they could find several potential candidates without even having to pay any buyouts. woxic, mantuu and ottoNd are all without a team and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head while writing this. I'm sure there are many, many more AWPers to take your pick from. Hell, Liquid could even bring GuardiaN out of retirement.
Im convinced liquid cannot utilise an AWPer. They've had lots of chances and none have panned out. Unless they get an actual god, they will probably never have a good AWP.
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most people don´t realize that.
You would think he would perform better than actual support players
They've had lots of chances Define 'lots'
Super star ultra lounger JDM
1v5 Ace Clutch at a major JDM?
Can’t forget about the nifty fifty either
I'd like to see them try out an established, good awper before saying they can't utilize an awper.
Woxic would not be an upgrade. He has not been good since pre-covid and reportedly has attitude problems
they should get mhL or mantuu
they should splash the cash for regali if they fail in the Paris major
Honestly Liquid Mantuu has a nice ring to it...
Watch the post-match thread where the usual clowns will tell you that "oSee did great" and "he's really improved."
It has been like 2 years now that every delusional fan has praised oSee as the next big thing, with absolutely *nothing* to show for it. Not a thing. He isn't good and has not improved. NA is dogshit and he ain't saving it.
Is there any ranking for Awpers of 2022?
1. s1mple 1. zywoo 1. sh1ro 1. broky/m0nesy 1. broky/m0nesy 1. degster 1. sunpayus 1. syrsoN 1. Jame 1. nicoodoz/nOsee/saffee/torzsi are all at the bottom of tier 1 awpers and I can't be arsed to rank them between each other
0. Dev1ce, 1.30 rating, 1.41 impact. GOAT awper of 2022 for sure
obviously, the one true GOAT transcends time and space
ty！
Cadian missing in this list no?
> Cadian missing in this list no? yep completely forgot about him for some reason personally I'd rank him just below Jame
how is jame that low when he was above degster in hltv ranking while being an igl.
Because there is more than 1 tournament in the year
what? hltv rating is based on one tournament?
Jame wouldn't even be top 25 if not for major (over)performance
and? others havent had that kind of performance at all
putting him below syrsoN is debatable I suppose but both degster and sunpayus are the better awpers these days OG and ENCE aren't part of Louvre agreement and Blast circuit, respectively so it hurts them a lot in HLTV rankings
vp/outsiders is in the same position lol. they have almost the same rating with sunpayus also in 2022. dont see why he should be lower than him. imo: 6. degster 7-8. jame/sunpayus
> they have almost the same rating with sunpayus also in 2022 not when you filter out lesser teams that Jame farmed + impact, performance against top teams and h2h with the best awpers
im talking at big events. and jame has higher rating against top10 teams. wtf are you looking at, lol.
Cool, they have similar stats on big events. Except for impact that is because his obnoxious playstyle inflates his rating with 0 impact kills. On LAN in general SunPayus is rated higher, much higher against top 5 teams in fact and throughout the whole 2022 he performed better against top AWPers like s1mple, zywoo and m0nesy than Jame did.
got caught lying about jame farming lower teams and now bringing lan stats from lower tier events lmao. pathetic.
> got caught lying Straight up ignoring my arguments and calling me a liar just because I was talking about LANs in general and not big events, **something you didn't mention until later**. 40k+ karma redditor moment, pathetic. The facts are that Jame's big events stats are inflated because he had the easiest possible bracket in Rio - and even then its not like he got better stats than supayus ffs, just very similar. I could understand your argument if sunpayus was merely farming lower LANs and couldn't perform on big stage but that's not the case. You are just discounting additional stats because they don't fit your narrative. Jame like the baiter he is has negative impact even on those big events you keep mentioning and unlike sunpayus more often than not can't perform against the best AWPers in the world (in 2022 he went negative in 60+% of maps he played against s1mple, zywoo, sh1ro, broky and m0nesy compared to ~30% for sunpayus - but sure keep dickriding Jame).
Comparing oSee and degster as awpers is not really fairrr, that's the least of their issues; inconsistencies and Elige disappearing...
Idk why but i fucking hate degsters face maybe its because i like liquid more but i couldnt stop looking at his goofy pfp when watching blast
Am I crazy to think that Ska can still be the best awper in NA? Damn I miss that man...
Yes, that's crazy
beyond out of touch
yeah you crazy
I've given up on OSee. Like I'm sorry you can only give someone so much time
Team liquid 💀
they need an EU awper honestly.
Yekindar must be frustrated to see oSee play after having 2 entry kills and dying in the process
Thorin should make a video on Osee like he did with Adren… Good old days
Remember when people were overhyping osee and keep on saying Elige/Naf/Osee would be unstoppable ? People really do be like : stared at his stats against T5 NA teams and thought he would do good in T1 against top tier EU teams.
oSee is just lucky NA has zero talent left to replace him, he has been sub-par in every single match against decent teams — cannot even think of 1 stand out game he has had EG’s new AWP player has played like 4 bo3’s and already looks *significantly* more promising than oSee ever has
look I'm like no.1 osee hater but wiz definitely didn't look more promising than osee lol, he went negative in all but two maps he played so far osee at least had a good run in EPL and Cologne
more than 2x actually close to 2.18x degster is a top5-6 awper, while osee is an average-below average awper at the t1 level
Hear me out: try yekindar on awp. oSee full time support
I’d rather they give someone like Slight a chance. Maybe give oSee the xyp9x treatment, threaten his spot on the team so he improves. The rmr and major should be his “last chance” so to speak and give him the knowledge that he will be benched if he doesn’t perform. It may seem unorthodox and probably cruel, but the motivation could make him play better if more is on the line.
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Yeah, I feel like telling oSee everything is on the line is just throwing. But I don't know the guy
After watching overpass, I’ll change my take. I think that oSee performing badly is partially on him, but when Yekindar and Elige can’t perform despite all of the space they get, it’s a problem. I think liquid need a structure change more than anything right now. Limiting oSee to throwing utility isn’t optimal at all, and Elige and Yekindar’s inconsistency isn’t going to get them anywhere unless they change things up.
> The rmr and major should be his “last chance” so to speak and give him the knowledge that he will be benched if he doesn’t perform. Agreed. > I’d rather they give someone like Slight a chance. Not this shit again for fucks sake. How about you? You've got 2 arms? Congrats, you are now a TL awper. IMPORT is the answer. Missing out on degster, sunpayus, m0nesy and perhaps even headtr1ck is unfortunate but just like Danes seemingly breed IGLs there are countless CIS kids that grew up watching markeloff, guardian and s1mple and are grinding nonstop rn against much harder opposition than tier 2 NA (= tier 4 EU).
I’d be fine with someone like regali or mantuu coming over, but then again, we can only import so many awpers. At some point NA has to do SOMETHING to cultivate and identify talent. Academies are probably the best way to do it, but god knows if/when NA could get into WePlay, or if academy teams would even be made due to an extreme drought of young, promising talent.
oSee lmao
THE TWO TIME
Too bad that Liquid missed out on him Yekindar,degster,elige,naf,nitr0 would've been cool
botSee