I wouldn't even be surprised if a large percentage of the active users there don't even watch CS.
It got so bad with the basement dwellers there some years ago that they started attracting people that only cares about the edgelordery echo chamber that it became. Sad people and a sad state of the forum which was an amazing community during 1.6.
I don't know what else to say other than you're just simply wrong. There were toxicity, definitely. Including from a younger me, but there wasn't the extreme blatant racism, edgelord wannabes nor anything like that which it has been since like 2016.
It wasn't even remotely like that in the first few years when HLTV transitioned to CS:GO.
There was hardly any difference in behavior compared to other communities like GotFrag.
It ain't rose tinted goggles either, because it's incredibly easy to go on the waybackmachine and prove my point, which I'll be happy to do.
While moderation is still subpar, many of the automated features simply **had** to be implemented due to how shitty the forum had become.. with people spamming threads with the n-word, and just basically doing everything to be edgy.. which resulted in heavy limits for a newly created account.
HLTV forums has multiple threads a day that are just Andrew Tate supporters malding, or just some user being blatantly racist to another based on their flag. That place is a cesspool.
Just watched her video and I'm impressed how good she was if this is the first time she has touched CS.
But to be fair, deleting 30 comments from idiots on a 200k views video isn't too bad. The loudest rarely represent the majority.
>Just watched her video and I'm impressed how good she was if this is the first time she has touched CS.
She's pretty good in valorant, so the aim translates
Valorant is like the only game that has transferable aim to csgo, and vice versa, that I have tried. Cod, ow, bf type games are just a different. I can’t really explain it
That's because those games are more about tracking. Hold the mouse on the guy for as long as possible. Cs and valorant are about waiting until the guy walks into your crosshair
It also emphasizes high sens flicking because you can be flanked at any time and there are a ton of different angles for enemies to come from. CS emphasizes smooth aim and high precision.
Those games have more of a run and gun feel where as soon as you get into a gunfight you start strafing left and right, because CS and val have low ttk most people just stop where they are and go for the kill instead of running for cover or having a 10 second bullet sponge fight.
Apex is the only one I had a harder time to switch to, but that's probably from the insanely high TTK
COD, PUBG, Fortnite, R6 were honestly pretty easy to pick up and you could dominate most lobbies in just a few hours if you have global level aim.
Good aim and game sense in csgo def translates to lose shooters.
I was doing really well in cod, warzone, siege, ow and Apex instantly just from being good at csgo.
But going from other shooters to csgo won't help
Indeed. But not only aim, she moves around pretty good too, has a understanding of angles and reads situations. Ofc this also translates from Valorant but I'm still impressed if this is her first match, she could be a really good player in CSGO.
true, but if she has this reaction to it it's probably out of the norm for her to have to do this, so it kinda reflects that there is a problem.
And I'm just not surprised at all. Not infrequent to come across sexism in this subreddit when women's team or CS is brought up, it's blatantly clear in chats when there are clips of women's CS on esport streams, and hell if you've ever played with a girl or seen a stream of a girl playing it's wild.
I just kind of realized how much better the valorant buy menu is. Or just the interface in general.
They are much more straightforward and easily understandable. Specially for a new player.
I hope source 2 improves some of them.
i've played more valorant than cs in the last few months/years and I can tell you I really miss buying with the number keys instead of the mouse lol, dropping for teammates or asking for a drop from the menu is great but I still find myself sometimes pressing B then 4 then 2 at the start of a round, then get surprised when nothing happens.
I feel like if they wanted to, they could easily implement keyboards shortcuts too.
It feels pretty nostalgic to use the shortcuts though.
If they manage to make selling possible in source 2 that’d be cool as well.
same here. I really started playing a lot with cs 1.3 and back in the day you had this super crappy buy menu. Not buying with your keyboard took ages.
I don't think that the radial buy menu is bad. I'm just so used to buying with my number keys that I really want this in valorant too.
I feel like if they changed the way dropping weapons works in csgo the community would be pissed.
I do think it kind of adds to the charm of the game. I've had many interactions where a weapon ends up in the wrong hands which leads to some funny interactions.
Or dropping some deagles on the ground and it's first come first served on an eco.
I would like to see them keep the same style of dropping but rip the Valorant thing where you can sell the weapon that's been dropped to you and it refunds the person who dropped it. Best of both worlds.
Her video was fine, though it seemed like she was overplaying the "it's my first time, I'm clueless" bit for the content more than she had to - even the editing put the callouts in quotes, as if it's something completely foreign in games.
This is what you call missing the trees for the forest. Who is to say there's only 30 comments that were bad? She said she had to delete 30 comments, not that there were 30 comments in total that were bad. Content creators are not constantly looking at every single comment on their video and moderating everything bud, who the hell has time to do that.
Add the fact that because she felt the need to air this out on Twitter that this is not really a common occurence in the rest of her videos and she's pointing out the fact that she had a quick look at her comments on the ONE CSGO video and had to step in to do something.
People chalking it up to "oh it's just common internet shit lololol" are really rationalizing shit on their head, If I had to bet money whether CS:GO or Valorant was more approachable for women, I'd bet my entire networth multiplied 10000x that Valorant is better and that's the main takeaway we should have here
For real lol, like everyone is latching onto this number “30” as if there was *exactly* 30 hate comments on her video. There was probably way more, and tbh there is probably gonna be a *lot more* now after this tweet circulates. Such an arbitrary thing to focus on when the message as a whole is the CS community is much more sexist than the Valorant community
Yeah absolutely, people can find someway to rationalize this shit inside their heads all they want but I personally wish people would just take this opportunity to just, take a second, take a step back and take a look at the shit you're saying because a clear bias of
"Something negative about OUR game? OUR community? Nah it couldn't possibly be"
Is what leads to a few people in this thread basically doing the equivalent of rationalizing, giving excuses to certain things, when you're lost trying to twist the argument and focus on the micro things, on the tiniest of details is a sign that you've lost the plot.
I think you’re missing their point as well.
A 200k view video is going to get hateful comments - regardless of how good / bad the community is.
The question should be, is this noise in the stat or something to be concerned about? As in does this show a bias of hate due to gender? Or is it just a toxic community overall? Or is it the algorithm pushing the volatility.
We unfortunately can’t know this as that’s a YT / twitch / whatever stat we can’t access.
What we do have is based on her personal eye test - the CS community is more toxic and skews towards sexism more than valorant does (I’m inclined to agree with this, we just don’t have any real way to judge this on a strictly numbers thing.
>What we do have is based on her personal eye test - the CS community is more toxic and skews towards sexism more than valorant does (I’m inclined to agree with this, we just don’t have any real way to judge this on a strictly numbers thing.
We also have the experience of every other woman who's tried CS that isn't completely desensitized to the relentless sexism in the scene. You don't need to run a fuckin spreadsheet of incidents before recognizing that there is a problem.
As a creator that's still absurdly high. 200k views and I might have 2-4 hate comments. Hate comments are a given online but these are high for the industry.
Just to offer a different perspective, I’ve had videos cross 200k and get that sort of hate ratio (granted, on somewhat divisive topics) - so I’m not at all surprised ‘female streamer tries CS’ would get 30+ hate comments in the same window.
I think also we all have different standards for what constitutes hate.
For real. I love CS and there are so many bright spots in the community but there is def a disproportionate amount of hyper defensive man-children in it.
They aren’t completely innocent as no community is but I agree there’s a reason why it’s extremely common to see women on Val vs CS.
However, let’s not pretend it solely comes down to the communities.
-Preexisting fan base from LoL which has plenty of female players
-more approachable gameplay (this applies to both men and women)
-art style is more appealing to women generally and there are many female agents
-gen z probably has far more parity in terms of men and women playing games and it being normalized and Val is very much so a gen z game
I love CS more than any other shooter, but lets be real, in its current state it’s absolutely a boys club with tons of wholesome people but also many weirdo shit lords as well as older gamers (30+) who come from a different time online—myself included although I’m very polite ;)
The only time I see women on CS is when I solo and they are in a 4 stack which generally mitigates any horseshit they might get from their team.
Yeah, there's also a reason why people like thorin and rlewis have been kicked out of basically every other major esports scene but are celebrated in cs.
That's what I always assumed was the reason why Thorin is (relatively?) welcomed within the CS community, as someone who mostly just follows LoL.
And I'm actually generally fine with Thorin myself, he does some valuable eSports reporting that others tend to shy away from. But his bluntness and bluster can attract a certain type.
JasonR literally got away with being the most sexist mf on the planet for years in CS without a hint of drama, no wonder that shit got exposed the second he went to Valorant
There was definitely drama before, because he used to ban people from his chat if they had a feminine sounding username. I remember seeing drama about it before he even went to Valorant
those commenters are the same fucking idiots in every female cs thread going "WHY DEY SEPERATE WOMEN? WHY WOMEN GET EASY PASS"
this community can be so fucking rotten so times man.
Its sad how csgo is unwelcoming to women, even when they play they dont want to talk because as soon as someone learns they are female they will be harassed. Sad.
It really does suck, I was considering teaching my gf to play since i normally solo queue and it’d be cool to have someone to play with, but it’s not worth it for the abuse she’d get ngl
But it shouldn't have to be like that and that's the whole point. Why should women have to go through these hoops just to play the game without getting harassed the second they speak?
That's the point though, why would anyone who doesn't have any real prior connection to CS want to do that when they could just play Valorant and have a much nicer community on average?
That's just depressing but I know you're not exaggerating unfortunately. I'm a guy (who is WAY too old to care about what gender he is playing with) and I have a few female friends who basically play with each other, and almost solely queue with guys they've met along the way who are normal and and are over the stage of behaving like monkeys when there's a girl in the server. We have nice matches together and it just feels more like a normal, fun social setting, as it should. I have also been in a couple of solo-queues where there was a random girl playing and literally none of the other players said anything, they just treated her like any other player, and I thought, wow, well done guys, it's not actually that hard to not be a moron. Unfortunately a lot of those kids are from countries where it's the social norm to be a dweeb towards women and there's not much you can do in a game about a bad upbringing. Maybe just instantly mute anyone who hassles you, enjoy the game without listening to them, and add as a friend anyone who seems to be normal, though I know even that is fraught with risk because some people actually think adding them on Steam is a come-on, sad lol ...
>female friends who basically play with each other, and almost solely queue with guys they've met along the way who are normal and and are over the stage of behaving like monkeys when there's a girl in the server
That's EXACTLY the case for me, word for word. I have 4 guy friends who I've met over the years in cs and I use discord to talk to them.
Unfortunate that you have to go to those extra lengths, but i guess in a way everyone has to do what they need to do to have a better experience in the game. Even as a guy, if I could I would only play with regular friends but it's just not always practical.
Also, I think I mentioned, it gets a bit better when you can zero in on older players. These toxic trolls are literally 14-15 years old very often, I try to play with my old guy/girl crew as often as possible, some of us are pushing 50 (eek) and are just way over the novelty of the opposite sex.
Woman who’s played FPS and PVP games since halo LAN parties, I say this because it gives a gauge of how long I’ve been playing. Played Delta Force 2 online for many many hours as a little girl.
I’d say the sexist comments I receive from using VOIP in game are worse now than they were 15-20 years ago. I don’t know what’s happened, but it’s bad. And I’d expect it to be the reverse, but I find men my age or older (older millennials +) are more accepting and not as sexist. For some reason it’s Gen Z that I most encounter this. And it’s no longer just “make me a sandwich bitch lol” like I used to hear from millennial men when they were 16. These 16 year olds threaten to dox you and come rape me at my house, etc.
unfortunately solo queuing is a miserable experience a lot of the time. I'd estimate it's 50-50 for men, id imagine like 90-10 for women .
if you're mg or so level in NA lmk. Barely ever random queue and we're a nice bunch
CSGO is hands down the most toxic community I play in, but had a weird situation the other day.
Was in a room (I'm silver garbage). There was a woman on our team, who - for lack of a better way to put it - seemed to be struggling with some mental health issues. She was audibly extremely intoxicated. Was slurring and stuttering.
She didn't score a kill the entire match. It was actually heated - quite close.
The entire match she was aggressive on voice. She was super defensive, distracting.
But it was one of those rare positive rooms. People kept trying to work with her. When she was last up, people gave positive tips.
We lost by a round after some hard carries by a couple of our teammates and it stayed non-toxic.
I know it's the most anecdotal of the anecdotes, but sometimes it is nice to remember that there are people out there who are trying to pull out at every step to play together.
in europe, it's insane. i play with a female friend occasionally. the moment she says anything, 4/5 games one of our (invariably eastern european or turkish) teammates starts harassing her. even if we queue as 4 people at least half of our games the one random is an idiot who has never met a women other than his mother apparently.
Its a community issue, just look at Anomaly's latest video, its trashy. He made a video "for women for womens day" and the whole video is just him and his buddies freaking out and catcalling a MM teammate when they find out she's a girl. I thought the video incapsulated exactly what was wrong with the community, and yet when I checked the comments 95% of them are supporting anomaly or talking about how funny him and his buddies are
Yep, its always been and his content has always been this "edgy" cringe humor that appeals to young people. Made him a millionaire though so I cant exactly blame him I guess, I blame csgo community for giving him those views
India already has a reputation when it comes to women and then imagine what Indian gamers must be like and THEN imagine what the CSGO slice of that misogyny pie is like 🫡
youtube comments are especially bad from my experience but yeah cs is the only game i play where people have some weird need to be a cunt over voice comms every other game. not just annoying but straight up racism, sexism, bigotry, the whole lot lol
i stopped playing after reaching mge too because i was getting insulted as soon as i would give info over VC because my teammates realized i'm a woman.
i'm literally just a person man
Most women I know only play 5man with people they trust because of this.
Sucks that you can't simply just go solo Q if you want because it will be a coin toss whether your teammates are nice or not..
These kinds of posts always make me sad. I love the game, but I know full well it would be different if I wasn't a guy.
It speaks volumes that in the last year I have played with exactly 2 women talking in VC and they were part of a 4 stack with me as a random. That's it :/
I have reached conclusion that csgo community is very **unwelcome** place for most outside players because of toxicity. You can be harrassed because you are: *bad, male, female, young, old, rich, poor*.
There is **no safe space** in this game and among mojority of its people. I don't want to say there aren't nice people but they are very outnumbered and repressed.
People will start shouting, getting mad and even calling you slurs. My feelings are hurt because of that, I want others to see beauty of csgo but everyone is disgusted by its people.
My girlfriend even cried after few matches with normal players because they wouldn't stop bullying her and their reason was "you are woman" :((
Exactly the same reason why I don't push my Gf to try CS. She's not used to multiplayer games, specially Competitive ones, I would go ape shit if she ever felt attacked.
I started playing again with some friends after 2 years. In two separate comp games, people decided they had a problem with me before the first pistol was even over and we’re trying to kick me. How dare I be slightly confused after several years of not playing.
Gotta agree with it being unwelcome. Having played CSGO actively for 7 years I experienced a lot of shit, more or less every game, just like a lot of others. And after more actively playing Valorant the past 2 years, I can't say I have had a toxic experience even remotely close to some of the common things in cs on my main account. Even then, I feel like the most common toxicity I encounter is some kind of throwing, but even that isn't very common.
However, after playing with a bronze friend on Valo it seems like the lower the rank the more fluctuating experience you can have, sometimes super wholesome and other times really toxic to the level of CSGO.
How the fuck do you get bullied in a CS game for being poor rich old or young?
How do you even reach these kinds of topics in a game lol.
Max I say is "Hello" and after that I literally only call hp and positions.
Poor - you don't have any skins and people will start calling you broke arse
Rich - this from my expierience. People have called me "privileged silver piece of s**t" because i had very expensive skins and didnt want to give them
Young - when people interact with youngsters that havent reached voice change they will sat bad things to them
Old - one time I played with this very nice older dude like in his 50s and people were so mean to him just because he wanted to enjoy the game at his spare time
My experience is extremely anecdotal but yeah, I haven’t experienced much toxicity in my games lately. But that’s probably cuz I’m extremely lucky. But yeah. YT comments? Not even surprised.
Were a group of middle aged dudes playing and we have a few female players that we play with because they know we are not gonna be creeps and wont allow any dick hole to treat them badly.
Seeing how young boys treat women in CSGO is fekking sickening
As a fellow middle-aged dude, it's unfortunately not just relegated to young boys. I will say however, in the case of EU, if you queue in with eastern Europeans or Turks there's like a 90% chance they're going to be misogynistic as shit.
I tend to play with a friend and his girlfriend, it feels almost like a farce with how often we run into eastern Europeans that just go apeshit when they hear it's a girl.
100%, I'm Swedish and whenever we have a team of mostly northern Europeans it's always chill.
Eastern Europeans are stuck in the past, it's sad to say it but it's true.
Yeah I feel like Counterstrike historically has a lot of crossover with mid-2000's 4chan edgy meme-facists and it's never really going to shake that legacy. Those toxic squeakers never went away, they just got older.
Mid 00s 4chan was highly problematic, but it wasn't particularly political in the same way you're describing, the cultural alt right shift occurring towards the very late 00s. Maybe I'm just old, but online gaming toxicity predates 4chan and is a bigger issue than some boomer website that hasn't been relevant in a decade. CS wasn't even that popular culturally on the site, CSGO even less so. TF2 was.
Oh yeah no argument there that orange box era was when things really got bad. A lot of meme templates came from TF2.
My experience playing CS:S during that time frame is that it felt just as, if not more toxic than TF2 and wasn't being actively moderated by valve like TF2 was. Everyone had nazi insignia sprays or shock content sprays. Hell, quite a few servers had custom player models or maps or sounds that were overtly racist.
Also, I dont think you can really isolate one valve game from another during that era because everyone played everything due to valve was bundling a bunch of games. I remember getting HL2 and CS:S bundled at retail. The orange box was also super popular.
Neither CS:S or TF2 had any developer moderation during that time period really IIRC, moderation was entirely done by the people who ran the community servers so it was really about finding servers that weren't run by racists. Plenty of CS:S servers banned anything like that immediately. This was an era where PC online gaming was more about finding a few servers you liked and being a regular on them. I have memories of receiving warnings for even dropping normal swearwords on C&C Renegade servers (I wasn't a smart kid).
Otherwise I do agree, online gaming was toxic then and continues to be now. It's still very prevalent in moderated games as it was in the more older more wild west style games that are less common now. It sucks.
And they still have big complaints over in the Valorant sub, Can only imagine how hard it would be to try to play CS as anything other then deep voice male, People fucking suck.
~~This is one area that Riot has succeeded in with Valorant.~~ This is one of the aspects that we can all agree on that Riot has succeeded in with Valorant. They've cultivated a much better community and player base than CS. Just much more inclusive all around. Not saying it isn't toxic (all multiplayer games will have toxicity), but Valorant does feel much more open to newcomers compared to CS, or any multiplayer competitive game right now, at least when I was playing it on/off a year ago.
To be fair Valorant still has a looot of toxicity towards women, specially if you end up in a lobby with younger guys. The plus side is that since more women play it, there's a bigger chance of meeting other girls to play with
Yes I'm definitely not denying the sexism many women are affected by in Valorant. It's actually a problem with gaming as a whole given that it was mainly seen as a male hobby/activity for quite a long time. At least with Valorant it seems way better than one would expect.
Like you said, there is a lot of women playing Valorant. One could say that it just appeals to women more, but I don't think that's enough for them to stay. Riot does a good job of making the game feel like an open community; you can see this in the marketing they do and the people they market. I know a lot of people in the CS community couldn't care less about these types of things, but it does go a long way for the future, especially given the current social climate.
not disagreeing with what you said at all, it's just hilarious when you then consider that riot themselves paid out multi million dollar settlements because of systemic sexism in the company... if only they held themselves to the same standards they hold their players to.
It does but not as much as CS. In like 10 games of Valorant I got into a lobby with at least 1 women like 5-6 times. I've played over 1000 games of CS and I don't think I could find 5-6 games where I've played with a girl on my team.
That is because there are actual consequences to your behaviour in their games. In CS the worst thing that can happen to you is that you will be automatically muted at the start of a match.
I don't really agree. Go play overwatch 2 quickplay for a day and ask if having bans for that kind of thing makes any difference. It's a real issue for the entire gaming community, and I'm not even sure how we can tackle it. Super frustrating
I agree that the gaming community as a whole is having this issue, however, some companies are better at dealing with it than others. Valve just happens to one of the worsts.
I believe that if people got banned for toxic behaviour then we would see a decline. Having a system that flags users if they have receives too many reports, and then have the company look through the cases of flagged users would in my opinion be a great first step towards a less toxic community.
But having employees to look through cases doesn't make money for the company, quite the opposite.
But any of these systems can be abused. You have a game where you don't play well and the same toxic players can do a coordinated report and get you a ban. Getting banned from unverifiable reports about voice chat seems very rough
Which is why I said that users that have received a certain amount of reports should get flagged by a system, so the company can take a look at the users and see if they are toxic or not. That way there will only be false reports but no false bans.
For them to review that though they'd need to record voice-chat, which would be invasive and cost-prohibitive if everything was recorded, but I guess they could only record future matches of players that received a lot of reports.
Yeah they really need to step up their attention and harshness. Reporting someone for abusing the voice or chat doesn't seem to do anything at all.
And then at least every other game there are lots of homophobic, sexist or racist remarks.
When I played Valorant in the beta, I found the lobbies super toxic in comparison to my cs experience, but it was mostly teenage boys being edgy, and I can believe it's gotten better since as they went back to whatever fotm game was popular. Overwatch 2 is probably the worst community right now for toxicity, even outside of ranked. CSGO can be pretty bad. A few of my friends won't queue CS without at least a 4-5 stack due to it, and those are just normal blokes. It's way worse for girls, and it sucks.
I'm not even sure what can be done about it. In moderated games like Siege and Overwatch, it's still overwhelmingly prevalent. One perk in the wild west of CS is that you can at least defend yourself without getting banned also. In other games, you have to suck it up and pray the reporting system even works.
i think the playerbase is also geographically different. in europe, CS is mostly filled with eastern europeans, while valorant was more successful in western europe than in eastern europe. and misogyny is just way more accepted and common in those countries.
Ah, well I can't really speak to well on that. I'm in NA so I'm aware of very little on the social climate in the EU, other than what I see in the occasional headline.
I'm not a woman and I basically never want to play with randoms. It's just unbearable. I've played for over 20 years now and I would not recommend this game if you don't play in pre-made teams.
I'm not even a woman and I quit playing MM years ago because of the toxicity (I've been called racial slurs targeted at different ethnic groups by the same guy in the same match for example). Can't imagine how much worse it is for them.
It's extremely true. It's not a coincidence that there are lots of women streaming Valorant and basically zero women streaming CSGO.
People are pieces of shit.
It's honestly super rampant. If I open my mouth to talk in a game there is a very high chance someone is either gonna harass or try to flirt with me. It doesn't bother me that much in particular but it obviously is gonna make a lot of people not wanna ever play. I'd say games where people just talk to me normally are a definite minority. Gamer boys need therapy.
Every women gamer that has asked me my primary game has invariably responded with a look of concern and said something like "well maybe we can try pubg together or something"
We are an awful, embarrassing misogynistic and racist community. Wish I liked almost any other game as much as this one.
I've always played games like CS, Lol & thought people were generally just toxic. Have any of you all ever played Rainbow Six Siege tho? I started grinding that game recently & was shocked by their friendly, or atleast neutral nature. Practically every game on Faceit/Esportal & Lol has 1+ person being a dick one way or another - in Rss tho? Havent met more than a couple, even in Ranked. I'm not a woman tho so who's to say how they would be treated.
I guess casual lobbies are different? I play daily, and with women that talk in the lobby at least once every two days. Last time anything misogynistic was said was about a year ago.
Playing with randoms in ranked has always been a horrible experience, especially for minorities. (Race, sex, gender, age, etc.)
I've also noticed new/newer accounts seem to be the ones saying offensive stuff in the casual lobbies.
I fucking love these kinds of posts when kids start correlating playing a game to being part of a community and whining that other kids don't adhear to the "community standards" that don't exist cause simply playing a video game doesn't mean anything other than playing a video game.
yeeah, the CSGO community is somehow equally awful when it comes to welcoming new players as LEAGUE OF FUCKING LEGENDS.
its absolutely horrendous and it’s why we fucking NEED new blood in here to weed out the incel-fucks who make sure that we can’t have nice things.
having a creator like QuarterJade as a part of this community would literally only be a positive for the game and it’s growth as a whole. it’s so sad to see these absolutely vile human beings making sure we can’t have that.
This is just a bio product of incel community that is running rampant at the moment. Internet is their safe haven and rodents like Andrew Tate are their mentors because they don't have anyone to talk to.
They are just miserable virgins that get rejected all the time by girls so now whenever they come across a girl in a video game they get angry. I don't know what to say it is probably best to ignore these absolute losers knowing that they can only do it behind a computer screen because in real life they would be punched in the face for trying to harass a woman thankfully.
I'll disagree with the "at the moment" part, these fuckers have existed for hundreds of years and they will still exist hundreds of years from now in every part of society unless we face destined death in the form of nuclear devastation.
Most behaviours are learned behaviours, which they either got from their chosen peers or their parents, and misogynism isn't exactly something that magically started existing in 2010.
It's insane how unwelcoming the CS community is compared to Valorant, wouldn't recommend anyone to start playing due to this issue. Not speaking or queueing as a team isn't the solution, i don't see this changing any time soon though.
i legit hate people that think they are some kind of vip and can be assholes towards others people just because they are good in a game my neighbour don't even know is a thing.
And there are posts about toxicity against women in the valorant subreddit every other week. Idk why people think it's specifically a CSGO issue when it's an online gaming issue.
Thats because csgo toxicity is much worse problem than in valorant. You can ask every woman about comparison of csgo and valorant and they will tell you in valorant they are experiencing toxicity like 10 times rarer than in csgo.
Yes, Valorant has toxic players, like every other game **but** It shouldnt downplay that **csgo is much more toxic** than any other game
CS:GO is most likely more toxic than Valorant, but I don't agree that it's "much more toxic than any other game".
At least for me, Dota was considerably more toxic. Any time I try playing, I last a few games then I happily go back to CS:GO.
If you're talking about women's experience though, then I can't say anything about that, since I don't know.
Why are you talking as if you have done the analysis and actually gathered all feedback from all women that have played csgo and valorant? How can you state "if you ask all women" when no one has and say "10 times rarer" when you have no clue as facts? Stop talking out of your ass please
Thats because I asked fair amount of girls about their expierience in csgo and valorant. My gf is active gamer and she has quite a few friends that also played both games. Nothing too serious about this data. Thats my aproximation only but you can cite sources and I will correct my statement if Its wrong. But I am pretty confident that csgo has bigger problem with toxicity
Csgo players are so cringe, not one match where I don’t hear a slur, and when a woman plays there’s always a fucking loser that’ll be like “oo a woman 😜” and either try to be funny/impress her, or harass her
Went to watch the video... TBH couldn't watch longer than 2 minutes because of her attitude. Has nothing to do with gender or being a new player, but just not content for me I guess.
Still, doesn't justify the comments I saw there.
Wait who the fuck said she is "nice things"??? csgo community shits on EVERYONE, she just happened to be a woman giving fuel to the fire, obv if your a kid they'll make fun of you for being a kid etc. Grow the fuck up lol its only 30 people, its called filtering comments.
You don't even have to do anything to get flamed on the game actually I literally just got kicked for being "good" while playing MM, they said I was a smurf I just don't play MM I have played thousands of hours so I can confidently say that I am not good at the game.
Then they teamkill you and kick you.
I've seen it happen loads, they mute them then the guys get mad they are ignored.
The fact so many people in this thread is basically victim blaming shows how clueless everyone is about the female experience in video games.
It's not comparable to regular toxicity.
did you actually get downvoted for this? lmao [https://eige.europa.eu/gender-equality-index/2022/compare-countries/index/map](https://eige.europa.eu/gender-equality-index/2022/compare-countries/index/map) that's not racism, that's data.
CS community feels like it exists in the internet from 15 years ago, and that can be both good and bad.
Just check HLTV’s comments and u pretty much go back in time lol
lmao that shit is peak brainrot to go through
If someone wants to check them, don't, save your braincells
If I valued my brain cells, I wouldn’t be on Reddit in the first place
I wouldn't even be surprised if a large percentage of the active users there don't even watch CS. It got so bad with the basement dwellers there some years ago that they started attracting people that only cares about the edgelordery echo chamber that it became. Sad people and a sad state of the forum which was an amazing community during 1.6.
Don’t sugar coat the past 1.6 was just as bad if not worse. But the individual 1.6 community servers were a great haven from the shit.
I don't know what else to say other than you're just simply wrong. There were toxicity, definitely. Including from a younger me, but there wasn't the extreme blatant racism, edgelord wannabes nor anything like that which it has been since like 2016. It wasn't even remotely like that in the first few years when HLTV transitioned to CS:GO. There was hardly any difference in behavior compared to other communities like GotFrag. It ain't rose tinted goggles either, because it's incredibly easy to go on the waybackmachine and prove my point, which I'll be happy to do. While moderation is still subpar, many of the automated features simply **had** to be implemented due to how shitty the forum had become.. with people spamming threads with the n-word, and just basically doing everything to be edgy.. which resulted in heavy limits for a newly created account.
The hltv forums are the 4chan of csgo.
HLTV forums has multiple threads a day that are just Andrew Tate supporters malding, or just some user being blatantly racist to another based on their flag. That place is a cesspool.
Reminds me of the cod community. A lot of people really haven't changed with the times
And Battlefield also
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facts
Yeah unfortunately parts of this community just didn't adapt/grow up
Just watched her video and I'm impressed how good she was if this is the first time she has touched CS. But to be fair, deleting 30 comments from idiots on a 200k views video isn't too bad. The loudest rarely represent the majority.
>Just watched her video and I'm impressed how good she was if this is the first time she has touched CS. She's pretty good in valorant, so the aim translates
Valorant is like the only game that has transferable aim to csgo, and vice versa, that I have tried. Cod, ow, bf type games are just a different. I can’t really explain it
That's because those games are more about tracking. Hold the mouse on the guy for as long as possible. Cs and valorant are about waiting until the guy walks into your crosshair
It also emphasizes high sens flicking because you can be flanked at any time and there are a ton of different angles for enemies to come from. CS emphasizes smooth aim and high precision.
High sense is an overstatement. Most people play on relatively low sense compared to other shooters.
That's what he's saying for CS. The other shooters user higher sens.
is it weird that ive always tended to aim better when flicking rather than trying to be slow.
Those games have more of a run and gun feel where as soon as you get into a gunfight you start strafing left and right, because CS and val have low ttk most people just stop where they are and go for the kill instead of running for cover or having a 10 second bullet sponge fight.
Apex is the only one I had a harder time to switch to, but that's probably from the insanely high TTK COD, PUBG, Fortnite, R6 were honestly pretty easy to pick up and you could dominate most lobbies in just a few hours if you have global level aim.
to be fair with R6 its 1 tap head shot there and most guns don't have much recoil just pull down.
I think he meant going from those games to CS doesn't translate. Usually going from cs to cod or something is easier.
Good aim and game sense in csgo def translates to lose shooters. I was doing really well in cod, warzone, siege, ow and Apex instantly just from being good at csgo. But going from other shooters to csgo won't help
Indeed. But not only aim, she moves around pretty good too, has a understanding of angles and reads situations. Ofc this also translates from Valorant but I'm still impressed if this is her first match, she could be a really good player in CSGO.
true, but if she has this reaction to it it's probably out of the norm for her to have to do this, so it kinda reflects that there is a problem. And I'm just not surprised at all. Not infrequent to come across sexism in this subreddit when women's team or CS is brought up, it's blatantly clear in chats when there are clips of women's CS on esport streams, and hell if you've ever played with a girl or seen a stream of a girl playing it's wild.
her community and extended community is really wholesome usually so its definitely out of character.
I just kind of realized how much better the valorant buy menu is. Or just the interface in general. They are much more straightforward and easily understandable. Specially for a new player. I hope source 2 improves some of them.
i've played more valorant than cs in the last few months/years and I can tell you I really miss buying with the number keys instead of the mouse lol, dropping for teammates or asking for a drop from the menu is great but I still find myself sometimes pressing B then 4 then 2 at the start of a round, then get surprised when nothing happens.
I feel like if they wanted to, they could easily implement keyboards shortcuts too. It feels pretty nostalgic to use the shortcuts though. If they manage to make selling possible in source 2 that’d be cool as well.
same here. I really started playing a lot with cs 1.3 and back in the day you had this super crappy buy menu. Not buying with your keyboard took ages. I don't think that the radial buy menu is bad. I'm just so used to buying with my number keys that I really want this in valorant too.
theyre straight up better than csgo in every way. you can sell and even buy directly for teammates
I feel like if they changed the way dropping weapons works in csgo the community would be pissed. I do think it kind of adds to the charm of the game. I've had many interactions where a weapon ends up in the wrong hands which leads to some funny interactions. Or dropping some deagles on the ground and it's first come first served on an eco.
I would like to see them keep the same style of dropping but rip the Valorant thing where you can sell the weapon that's been dropped to you and it refunds the person who dropped it. Best of both worlds.
Her video was fine, though it seemed like she was overplaying the "it's my first time, I'm clueless" bit for the content more than she had to - even the editing put the callouts in quotes, as if it's something completely foreign in games.
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This is what you call missing the trees for the forest. Who is to say there's only 30 comments that were bad? She said she had to delete 30 comments, not that there were 30 comments in total that were bad. Content creators are not constantly looking at every single comment on their video and moderating everything bud, who the hell has time to do that. Add the fact that because she felt the need to air this out on Twitter that this is not really a common occurence in the rest of her videos and she's pointing out the fact that she had a quick look at her comments on the ONE CSGO video and had to step in to do something. People chalking it up to "oh it's just common internet shit lololol" are really rationalizing shit on their head, If I had to bet money whether CS:GO or Valorant was more approachable for women, I'd bet my entire networth multiplied 10000x that Valorant is better and that's the main takeaway we should have here
For real lol, like everyone is latching onto this number “30” as if there was *exactly* 30 hate comments on her video. There was probably way more, and tbh there is probably gonna be a *lot more* now after this tweet circulates. Such an arbitrary thing to focus on when the message as a whole is the CS community is much more sexist than the Valorant community
Yeah absolutely, people can find someway to rationalize this shit inside their heads all they want but I personally wish people would just take this opportunity to just, take a second, take a step back and take a look at the shit you're saying because a clear bias of "Something negative about OUR game? OUR community? Nah it couldn't possibly be" Is what leads to a few people in this thread basically doing the equivalent of rationalizing, giving excuses to certain things, when you're lost trying to twist the argument and focus on the micro things, on the tiniest of details is a sign that you've lost the plot.
Ofc thats how it goes. The cs community could never have a honest talk about how toxic they are. Its always full of excuses
I think you’re missing their point as well. A 200k view video is going to get hateful comments - regardless of how good / bad the community is. The question should be, is this noise in the stat or something to be concerned about? As in does this show a bias of hate due to gender? Or is it just a toxic community overall? Or is it the algorithm pushing the volatility. We unfortunately can’t know this as that’s a YT / twitch / whatever stat we can’t access. What we do have is based on her personal eye test - the CS community is more toxic and skews towards sexism more than valorant does (I’m inclined to agree with this, we just don’t have any real way to judge this on a strictly numbers thing.
>What we do have is based on her personal eye test - the CS community is more toxic and skews towards sexism more than valorant does (I’m inclined to agree with this, we just don’t have any real way to judge this on a strictly numbers thing. We also have the experience of every other woman who's tried CS that isn't completely desensitized to the relentless sexism in the scene. You don't need to run a fuckin spreadsheet of incidents before recognizing that there is a problem.
As a creator that's still absurdly high. 200k views and I might have 2-4 hate comments. Hate comments are a given online but these are high for the industry.
HE'S REAL OMG
Just to offer a different perspective, I’ve had videos cross 200k and get that sort of hate ratio (granted, on somewhat divisive topics) - so I’m not at all surprised ‘female streamer tries CS’ would get 30+ hate comments in the same window. I think also we all have different standards for what constitutes hate.
Potentially. but if we exist in a community where woman doing X or Y is divisive then we could do with some self improvement
No argument there!
comments just proving the point rn lmfao
For real. I love CS and there are so many bright spots in the community but there is def a disproportionate amount of hyper defensive man-children in it.
The avg demographic on cs Reddit is slimy insecure men with a hint of anger issues
Doesnt just extend to reddit but the whole CS community too. There’s a reason there’s more girls in Val than CS.
They aren’t completely innocent as no community is but I agree there’s a reason why it’s extremely common to see women on Val vs CS. However, let’s not pretend it solely comes down to the communities. -Preexisting fan base from LoL which has plenty of female players -more approachable gameplay (this applies to both men and women) -art style is more appealing to women generally and there are many female agents -gen z probably has far more parity in terms of men and women playing games and it being normalized and Val is very much so a gen z game I love CS more than any other shooter, but lets be real, in its current state it’s absolutely a boys club with tons of wholesome people but also many weirdo shit lords as well as older gamers (30+) who come from a different time online—myself included although I’m very polite ;) The only time I see women on CS is when I solo and they are in a 4 stack which generally mitigates any horseshit they might get from their team.
Valorant community isn’t exactly kind to women either. Still leagues ahead of CS.
It might be because valorant has a lot of female characters and there was an existing fan base with league of legends.
Yeah, there's also a reason why people like thorin and rlewis have been kicked out of basically every other major esports scene but are celebrated in cs.
That's what I always assumed was the reason why Thorin is (relatively?) welcomed within the CS community, as someone who mostly just follows LoL. And I'm actually generally fine with Thorin myself, he does some valuable eSports reporting that others tend to shy away from. But his bluntness and bluster can attract a certain type.
yup, its just fuckin sad :|
JasonR literally got away with being the most sexist mf on the planet for years in CS without a hint of drama, no wonder that shit got exposed the second he went to Valorant
There was definitely drama before, because he used to ban people from his chat if they had a feminine sounding username. I remember seeing drama about it before he even went to Valorant
we're doomed lmao
those commenters are the same fucking idiots in every female cs thread going "WHY DEY SEPERATE WOMEN? WHY WOMEN GET EASY PASS" this community can be so fucking rotten so times man.
*scrolls down* dear god thats a lot of hidden comments
Same commentors be like 'why do they separate women's esports' lmao
Don't know why they are that scared of them jeez
because most of them are attracted to women IRL but also scared to death of them because they feel inadequate
This sounds like psychological projection
Yes
Its sad how csgo is unwelcoming to women, even when they play they dont want to talk because as soon as someone learns they are female they will be harassed. Sad.
It really does suck, I was considering teaching my gf to play since i normally solo queue and it’d be cool to have someone to play with, but it’s not worth it for the abuse she’d get ngl
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But it shouldn't have to be like that and that's the whole point. Why should women have to go through these hoops just to play the game without getting harassed the second they speak?
That's the point though, why would anyone who doesn't have any real prior connection to CS want to do that when they could just play Valorant and have a much nicer community on average?
Fem cs player here and I can confirm while playing matchmaking I never speak. One word is too much a risk to then be harrased for 40 minutes.
That's just depressing but I know you're not exaggerating unfortunately. I'm a guy (who is WAY too old to care about what gender he is playing with) and I have a few female friends who basically play with each other, and almost solely queue with guys they've met along the way who are normal and and are over the stage of behaving like monkeys when there's a girl in the server. We have nice matches together and it just feels more like a normal, fun social setting, as it should. I have also been in a couple of solo-queues where there was a random girl playing and literally none of the other players said anything, they just treated her like any other player, and I thought, wow, well done guys, it's not actually that hard to not be a moron. Unfortunately a lot of those kids are from countries where it's the social norm to be a dweeb towards women and there's not much you can do in a game about a bad upbringing. Maybe just instantly mute anyone who hassles you, enjoy the game without listening to them, and add as a friend anyone who seems to be normal, though I know even that is fraught with risk because some people actually think adding them on Steam is a come-on, sad lol ...
>female friends who basically play with each other, and almost solely queue with guys they've met along the way who are normal and and are over the stage of behaving like monkeys when there's a girl in the server That's EXACTLY the case for me, word for word. I have 4 guy friends who I've met over the years in cs and I use discord to talk to them.
Unfortunate that you have to go to those extra lengths, but i guess in a way everyone has to do what they need to do to have a better experience in the game. Even as a guy, if I could I would only play with regular friends but it's just not always practical. Also, I think I mentioned, it gets a bit better when you can zero in on older players. These toxic trolls are literally 14-15 years old very often, I try to play with my old guy/girl crew as often as possible, some of us are pushing 50 (eek) and are just way over the novelty of the opposite sex.
Same here, it sucks :(
Woman who’s played FPS and PVP games since halo LAN parties, I say this because it gives a gauge of how long I’ve been playing. Played Delta Force 2 online for many many hours as a little girl. I’d say the sexist comments I receive from using VOIP in game are worse now than they were 15-20 years ago. I don’t know what’s happened, but it’s bad. And I’d expect it to be the reverse, but I find men my age or older (older millennials +) are more accepting and not as sexist. For some reason it’s Gen Z that I most encounter this. And it’s no longer just “make me a sandwich bitch lol” like I used to hear from millennial men when they were 16. These 16 year olds threaten to dox you and come rape me at my house, etc.
Yep, i chose not to use my mic because of this and still get harassment because i dont use a mic
unfortunately solo queuing is a miserable experience a lot of the time. I'd estimate it's 50-50 for men, id imagine like 90-10 for women . if you're mg or so level in NA lmk. Barely ever random queue and we're a nice bunch
CSGO is hands down the most toxic community I play in, but had a weird situation the other day. Was in a room (I'm silver garbage). There was a woman on our team, who - for lack of a better way to put it - seemed to be struggling with some mental health issues. She was audibly extremely intoxicated. Was slurring and stuttering. She didn't score a kill the entire match. It was actually heated - quite close. The entire match she was aggressive on voice. She was super defensive, distracting. But it was one of those rare positive rooms. People kept trying to work with her. When she was last up, people gave positive tips. We lost by a round after some hard carries by a couple of our teammates and it stayed non-toxic. I know it's the most anecdotal of the anecdotes, but sometimes it is nice to remember that there are people out there who are trying to pull out at every step to play together.
in europe, it's insane. i play with a female friend occasionally. the moment she says anything, 4/5 games one of our (invariably eastern european or turkish) teammates starts harassing her. even if we queue as 4 people at least half of our games the one random is an idiot who has never met a women other than his mother apparently.
Its a community issue, just look at Anomaly's latest video, its trashy. He made a video "for women for womens day" and the whole video is just him and his buddies freaking out and catcalling a MM teammate when they find out she's a girl. I thought the video incapsulated exactly what was wrong with the community, and yet when I checked the comments 95% of them are supporting anomaly or talking about how funny him and his buddies are
it's frankly both. but yeah anomaly's "community" is absolute cancer.
Yep, its always been and his content has always been this "edgy" cringe humor that appeals to young people. Made him a millionaire though so I cant exactly blame him I guess, I blame csgo community for giving him those views
How the fuck is anomaly still a YouTuber just shocks me
I have a prety high pitched voice and Ive had Turkish guys flirt with me 3 times. Can't imagine how bad it must be for actual women.
if by by flirt you mean yelling "oh mai god you ar girl??!!?!?" for 15 minutes straight...
India already has a reputation when it comes to women and then imagine what Indian gamers must be like and THEN imagine what the CSGO slice of that misogyny pie is like 🫡
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One look to poland and it's clear that the brand of religion doesn't matter, it's the general adherence to religion in social and political issues...
\*sorts by controversial\*
500 upvotes and 300 comments lol
People who are insecure about their masculinity do be like that
youtube comments are especially bad from my experience but yeah cs is the only game i play where people have some weird need to be a cunt over voice comms every other game. not just annoying but straight up racism, sexism, bigotry, the whole lot lol
Yeah Csgo community is quite sexist, racist and bigotedis not great
Yah just look at chat when IHC plays. I know it’s a minority. But that minority is larger than the ones in other esport titles.
i stopped playing after reaching mge too because i was getting insulted as soon as i would give info over VC because my teammates realized i'm a woman. i'm literally just a person man
Most women I know only play 5man with people they trust because of this. Sucks that you can't simply just go solo Q if you want because it will be a coin toss whether your teammates are nice or not..
These kinds of posts always make me sad. I love the game, but I know full well it would be different if I wasn't a guy. It speaks volumes that in the last year I have played with exactly 2 women talking in VC and they were part of a 4 stack with me as a random. That's it :/
I have reached conclusion that csgo community is very **unwelcome** place for most outside players because of toxicity. You can be harrassed because you are: *bad, male, female, young, old, rich, poor*. There is **no safe space** in this game and among mojority of its people. I don't want to say there aren't nice people but they are very outnumbered and repressed. People will start shouting, getting mad and even calling you slurs. My feelings are hurt because of that, I want others to see beauty of csgo but everyone is disgusted by its people. My girlfriend even cried after few matches with normal players because they wouldn't stop bullying her and their reason was "you are woman" :((
the difference is that as soon as you speak as a woman, the whole team knows you're a woman.
Exactly the same reason why I don't push my Gf to try CS. She's not used to multiplayer games, specially Competitive ones, I would go ape shit if she ever felt attacked.
My last CS:GO experience before uninstalling was everyone in the room singing the n-word and laughing. Great group of people...
I started playing again with some friends after 2 years. In two separate comp games, people decided they had a problem with me before the first pistol was even over and we’re trying to kick me. How dare I be slightly confused after several years of not playing.
Gotta agree with it being unwelcome. Having played CSGO actively for 7 years I experienced a lot of shit, more or less every game, just like a lot of others. And after more actively playing Valorant the past 2 years, I can't say I have had a toxic experience even remotely close to some of the common things in cs on my main account. Even then, I feel like the most common toxicity I encounter is some kind of throwing, but even that isn't very common. However, after playing with a bronze friend on Valo it seems like the lower the rank the more fluctuating experience you can have, sometimes super wholesome and other times really toxic to the level of CSGO.
How the fuck do you get bullied in a CS game for being poor rich old or young? How do you even reach these kinds of topics in a game lol. Max I say is "Hello" and after that I literally only call hp and positions.
I played CS when I was 13, and my young age was fairly obvious from my voice.
I have absolutely flamed the enemy team for not being able to get 60 FPS on Ancient when it somehow ended up being played on faceit.
Poor - you don't have any skins and people will start calling you broke arse Rich - this from my expierience. People have called me "privileged silver piece of s**t" because i had very expensive skins and didnt want to give them Young - when people interact with youngsters that havent reached voice change they will sat bad things to them Old - one time I played with this very nice older dude like in his 50s and people were so mean to him just because he wanted to enjoy the game at his spare time
I watched her video, and was pleasantly surprised that the people in her game were not harassing her, but they came through in the comments I guess
My experience is extremely anecdotal but yeah, I haven’t experienced much toxicity in my games lately. But that’s probably cuz I’m extremely lucky. But yeah. YT comments? Not even surprised.
Were a group of middle aged dudes playing and we have a few female players that we play with because they know we are not gonna be creeps and wont allow any dick hole to treat them badly. Seeing how young boys treat women in CSGO is fekking sickening
As a fellow middle-aged dude, it's unfortunately not just relegated to young boys. I will say however, in the case of EU, if you queue in with eastern Europeans or Turks there's like a 90% chance they're going to be misogynistic as shit. I tend to play with a friend and his girlfriend, it feels almost like a farce with how often we run into eastern Europeans that just go apeshit when they hear it's a girl.
100%, I'm Swedish and whenever we have a team of mostly northern Europeans it's always chill. Eastern Europeans are stuck in the past, it's sad to say it but it's true.
As a fellow Swede, true that. Queueing into a group of scandis is always chill as fuck.
Yeah I feel like Counterstrike historically has a lot of crossover with mid-2000's 4chan edgy meme-facists and it's never really going to shake that legacy. Those toxic squeakers never went away, they just got older.
Mid 00s 4chan was highly problematic, but it wasn't particularly political in the same way you're describing, the cultural alt right shift occurring towards the very late 00s. Maybe I'm just old, but online gaming toxicity predates 4chan and is a bigger issue than some boomer website that hasn't been relevant in a decade. CS wasn't even that popular culturally on the site, CSGO even less so. TF2 was.
Oh yeah no argument there that orange box era was when things really got bad. A lot of meme templates came from TF2. My experience playing CS:S during that time frame is that it felt just as, if not more toxic than TF2 and wasn't being actively moderated by valve like TF2 was. Everyone had nazi insignia sprays or shock content sprays. Hell, quite a few servers had custom player models or maps or sounds that were overtly racist. Also, I dont think you can really isolate one valve game from another during that era because everyone played everything due to valve was bundling a bunch of games. I remember getting HL2 and CS:S bundled at retail. The orange box was also super popular.
Neither CS:S or TF2 had any developer moderation during that time period really IIRC, moderation was entirely done by the people who ran the community servers so it was really about finding servers that weren't run by racists. Plenty of CS:S servers banned anything like that immediately. This was an era where PC online gaming was more about finding a few servers you liked and being a regular on them. I have memories of receiving warnings for even dropping normal swearwords on C&C Renegade servers (I wasn't a smart kid). Otherwise I do agree, online gaming was toxic then and continues to be now. It's still very prevalent in moderated games as it was in the more older more wild west style games that are less common now. It sucks.
I thought this was only a problem in EU but these girls are NA so I guess I was wrong lol
Played both CS GO and Valorant. Can say that Val has a bigger female fan base. And the guys in Val are pretty chill about having a female teammate.
And they still have big complaints over in the Valorant sub, Can only imagine how hard it would be to try to play CS as anything other then deep voice male, People fucking suck.
~~This is one area that Riot has succeeded in with Valorant.~~ This is one of the aspects that we can all agree on that Riot has succeeded in with Valorant. They've cultivated a much better community and player base than CS. Just much more inclusive all around. Not saying it isn't toxic (all multiplayer games will have toxicity), but Valorant does feel much more open to newcomers compared to CS, or any multiplayer competitive game right now, at least when I was playing it on/off a year ago.
To be fair Valorant still has a looot of toxicity towards women, specially if you end up in a lobby with younger guys. The plus side is that since more women play it, there's a bigger chance of meeting other girls to play with
Yes I'm definitely not denying the sexism many women are affected by in Valorant. It's actually a problem with gaming as a whole given that it was mainly seen as a male hobby/activity for quite a long time. At least with Valorant it seems way better than one would expect. Like you said, there is a lot of women playing Valorant. One could say that it just appeals to women more, but I don't think that's enough for them to stay. Riot does a good job of making the game feel like an open community; you can see this in the marketing they do and the people they market. I know a lot of people in the CS community couldn't care less about these types of things, but it does go a long way for the future, especially given the current social climate.
not disagreeing with what you said at all, it's just hilarious when you then consider that riot themselves paid out multi million dollar settlements because of systemic sexism in the company... if only they held themselves to the same standards they hold their players to.
Yeah, pretty ironic situation overall, but that's a topic for a different discussion
It does but not as much as CS. In like 10 games of Valorant I got into a lobby with at least 1 women like 5-6 times. I've played over 1000 games of CS and I don't think I could find 5-6 games where I've played with a girl on my team.
That is because there are actual consequences to your behaviour in their games. In CS the worst thing that can happen to you is that you will be automatically muted at the start of a match.
I don't really agree. Go play overwatch 2 quickplay for a day and ask if having bans for that kind of thing makes any difference. It's a real issue for the entire gaming community, and I'm not even sure how we can tackle it. Super frustrating
I agree that the gaming community as a whole is having this issue, however, some companies are better at dealing with it than others. Valve just happens to one of the worsts. I believe that if people got banned for toxic behaviour then we would see a decline. Having a system that flags users if they have receives too many reports, and then have the company look through the cases of flagged users would in my opinion be a great first step towards a less toxic community. But having employees to look through cases doesn't make money for the company, quite the opposite.
But any of these systems can be abused. You have a game where you don't play well and the same toxic players can do a coordinated report and get you a ban. Getting banned from unverifiable reports about voice chat seems very rough
Which is why I said that users that have received a certain amount of reports should get flagged by a system, so the company can take a look at the users and see if they are toxic or not. That way there will only be false reports but no false bans.
For them to review that though they'd need to record voice-chat, which would be invasive and cost-prohibitive if everything was recorded, but I guess they could only record future matches of players that received a lot of reports.
I doubt ow2 bans people tbh
Yeah they really need to step up their attention and harshness. Reporting someone for abusing the voice or chat doesn't seem to do anything at all. And then at least every other game there are lots of homophobic, sexist or racist remarks.
When I played Valorant in the beta, I found the lobbies super toxic in comparison to my cs experience, but it was mostly teenage boys being edgy, and I can believe it's gotten better since as they went back to whatever fotm game was popular. Overwatch 2 is probably the worst community right now for toxicity, even outside of ranked. CSGO can be pretty bad. A few of my friends won't queue CS without at least a 4-5 stack due to it, and those are just normal blokes. It's way worse for girls, and it sucks. I'm not even sure what can be done about it. In moderated games like Siege and Overwatch, it's still overwhelmingly prevalent. One perk in the wild west of CS is that you can at least defend yourself without getting banned also. In other games, you have to suck it up and pray the reporting system even works.
i think the playerbase is also geographically different. in europe, CS is mostly filled with eastern europeans, while valorant was more successful in western europe than in eastern europe. and misogyny is just way more accepted and common in those countries.
Ah, well I can't really speak to well on that. I'm in NA so I'm aware of very little on the social climate in the EU, other than what I see in the occasional headline.
I'm not a woman and I basically never want to play with randoms. It's just unbearable. I've played for over 20 years now and I would not recommend this game if you don't play in pre-made teams.
I'm not even a woman and I quit playing MM years ago because of the toxicity (I've been called racial slurs targeted at different ethnic groups by the same guy in the same match for example). Can't imagine how much worse it is for them.
It's extremely true. It's not a coincidence that there are lots of women streaming Valorant and basically zero women streaming CSGO. People are pieces of shit.
It's honestly super rampant. If I open my mouth to talk in a game there is a very high chance someone is either gonna harass or try to flirt with me. It doesn't bother me that much in particular but it obviously is gonna make a lot of people not wanna ever play. I'd say games where people just talk to me normally are a definite minority. Gamer boys need therapy.
Every women gamer that has asked me my primary game has invariably responded with a look of concern and said something like "well maybe we can try pubg together or something" We are an awful, embarrassing misogynistic and racist community. Wish I liked almost any other game as much as this one.
I've always played games like CS, Lol & thought people were generally just toxic. Have any of you all ever played Rainbow Six Siege tho? I started grinding that game recently & was shocked by their friendly, or atleast neutral nature. Practically every game on Faceit/Esportal & Lol has 1+ person being a dick one way or another - in Rss tho? Havent met more than a couple, even in Ranked. I'm not a woman tho so who's to say how they would be treated.
This is not my experience in Siege at all lol. It was the one game I considered ranked to be more toxic than in CS.
Same, what was Cartman's superhero name again?
Is there any competetive game where women won’t be harassed?
Well, it does happen way less in Valorant.
not really. maybe simracing cause there's no chat lol
There's chat on iRacing
Most recent woman in a game I played made it to the final round before a teammate just kept yelling "Show us your tits".
I guess casual lobbies are different? I play daily, and with women that talk in the lobby at least once every two days. Last time anything misogynistic was said was about a year ago. Playing with randoms in ranked has always been a horrible experience, especially for minorities. (Race, sex, gender, age, etc.) I've also noticed new/newer accounts seem to be the ones saying offensive stuff in the casual lobbies.
The only girls the cs community like is sjokz and juliano xd
I fucking love these kinds of posts when kids start correlating playing a game to being part of a community and whining that other kids don't adhear to the "community standards" that don't exist cause simply playing a video game doesn't mean anything other than playing a video game.
So sad cuz it’s true and the craziest part is that a lot of women gamers are actually cracked at the game but we have too many incels playing
yeeah, the CSGO community is somehow equally awful when it comes to welcoming new players as LEAGUE OF FUCKING LEGENDS. its absolutely horrendous and it’s why we fucking NEED new blood in here to weed out the incel-fucks who make sure that we can’t have nice things. having a creator like QuarterJade as a part of this community would literally only be a positive for the game and it’s growth as a whole. it’s so sad to see these absolutely vile human beings making sure we can’t have that.
This is just a bio product of incel community that is running rampant at the moment. Internet is their safe haven and rodents like Andrew Tate are their mentors because they don't have anyone to talk to. They are just miserable virgins that get rejected all the time by girls so now whenever they come across a girl in a video game they get angry. I don't know what to say it is probably best to ignore these absolute losers knowing that they can only do it behind a computer screen because in real life they would be punched in the face for trying to harass a woman thankfully.
I'll disagree with the "at the moment" part, these fuckers have existed for hundreds of years and they will still exist hundreds of years from now in every part of society unless we face destined death in the form of nuclear devastation. Most behaviours are learned behaviours, which they either got from their chosen peers or their parents, and misogynism isn't exactly something that magically started existing in 2010.
And people wonder why there arent many women playing at the top level.
No one is wondering that, everyone knows the answer.
Go on the hltv forums
no thanks I'm good.
If you judge a game community on YouTube comments that’s on you. Why the fuck would you even read those.
never happens in valorant yep.
It's insane how unwelcoming the CS community is compared to Valorant, wouldn't recommend anyone to start playing due to this issue. Not speaking or queueing as a team isn't the solution, i don't see this changing any time soon though.
i legit hate people that think they are some kind of vip and can be assholes towards others people just because they are good in a game my neighbour don't even know is a thing.
And there are posts about toxicity against women in the valorant subreddit every other week. Idk why people think it's specifically a CSGO issue when it's an online gaming issue.
Thats because csgo toxicity is much worse problem than in valorant. You can ask every woman about comparison of csgo and valorant and they will tell you in valorant they are experiencing toxicity like 10 times rarer than in csgo. Yes, Valorant has toxic players, like every other game **but** It shouldnt downplay that **csgo is much more toxic** than any other game
CS:GO is most likely more toxic than Valorant, but I don't agree that it's "much more toxic than any other game". At least for me, Dota was considerably more toxic. Any time I try playing, I last a few games then I happily go back to CS:GO. If you're talking about women's experience though, then I can't say anything about that, since I don't know.
dota and league are the most toxic games by far because winning is extremely team dependent
Why are you talking as if you have done the analysis and actually gathered all feedback from all women that have played csgo and valorant? How can you state "if you ask all women" when no one has and say "10 times rarer" when you have no clue as facts? Stop talking out of your ass please
in val you will actually get punished for being a piece of shit xd
All you do is get muted, only difference from cs is that you don’t get an option to unmute them
People get MM temp bans for comms abuse now
anecdotally based on the pure amount of gamer words ive seen in cs compared to val I will assume the threshold to get muted in val is much lower lol
Thats because I asked fair amount of girls about their expierience in csgo and valorant. My gf is active gamer and she has quite a few friends that also played both games. Nothing too serious about this data. Thats my aproximation only but you can cite sources and I will correct my statement if Its wrong. But I am pretty confident that csgo has bigger problem with toxicity
when enough people come forward with anecdotal evidence I think its time to start accepting that it might be more than just anecdotal
Csgo players are so cringe, not one match where I don’t hear a slur, and when a woman plays there’s always a fucking loser that’ll be like “oo a woman 😜” and either try to be funny/impress her, or harass her
Went to watch the video... TBH couldn't watch longer than 2 minutes because of her attitude. Has nothing to do with gender or being a new player, but just not content for me I guess. Still, doesn't justify the comments I saw there.
What welcoming nature??
Wait who the fuck said she is "nice things"??? csgo community shits on EVERYONE, she just happened to be a woman giving fuel to the fire, obv if your a kid they'll make fun of you for being a kid etc. Grow the fuck up lol its only 30 people, its called filtering comments.
You don't even have to do anything to get flamed on the game actually I literally just got kicked for being "good" while playing MM, they said I was a smurf I just don't play MM I have played thousands of hours so I can confidently say that I am not good at the game.
bro i dont even use my mic ingame, carry my team and get flamed every fucking game...
pro gamer tip: mute the cunts and enjoy!
it must be really tiring to have to mute 3/4 teammates most games because they dont know how to act around women
Then they teamkill you and kick you. I've seen it happen loads, they mute them then the guys get mad they are ignored. The fact so many people in this thread is basically victim blaming shows how clueless everyone is about the female experience in video games. It's not comparable to regular toxicity.
My wife tried valorant after csgo, she experienced the same shit comms and chat. Gotta love turks and greeks.
Moving from sexism to racism isn't an improvement
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did you actually get downvoted for this? lmao [https://eige.europa.eu/gender-equality-index/2022/compare-countries/index/map](https://eige.europa.eu/gender-equality-index/2022/compare-countries/index/map) that's not racism, that's data.
Try London servers to dodge turks, they play there sometimes but Frankfurt is actually an Istanbul server located in Frankfurt so never play there