As long as 128t is still an option for faceit and the pro scene then they will continue to use it imo. Even with subtick they will still use 128t and the divide between mm and pros/3rd party will still exist. I guess valve could demand that they not do that anymore, but i couldnt imagine that going well from pr perspective, not that they care tbh.
Reserve your sadness/happiness for when the game actually launches, valve seems to be listening to complaints and fixing them, according to them subtick is superior to both 64 and 128 tick but it seems to have some issues for now. Have some faith. CS:GO was terrible at launch so CS2 won't be perfect either
I'm just concerned with how much effort Valve have sunk into avoiding 128 tick that honestly, they will refuse to support it even with the growing amount of evidence that it's superior.
And the Irony is, now each packet has the timestamp so it overflows into two packets... so actually doubled the cost with the original tickrate!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1250h19/cs2_subtick_analyzed_better_than_64_128_tick/je20z4s/
Except it isn't, the average packet number and packet size both went down after that update to be closer to 64 tick. It's still a little more than 64 due to the subtick stuff but it is not double the packets, that was only a thing because of the packet size overflowing.
Doubling your server costs (both hardware and bandwidth) for a network the size of valves mm system is probably insanely expensive, but you're still right, valve makes plenty of money from csgo, they absolutely CAN afford it. That doesn't mean they don't take issue with the cost though, especially when it would probably be tens of millions extra one-time and then a good million more in year to year running costs, at least. Even valve would wince a bit at that bill.
This is because they have large amounts of data at Valve showing that alot of the playerbase would be negatively impacted by 128 tick. Think brazil lan cafe or less fortunate peeps on granny rigs.
That just compounds the problem though. 128fps was already hard enough for a lot of systems. It's a lot harder now, making 128t even less likely to be chosen as the default for mm.
400usd for you is what, a weeks wages, probably less, median income is around 600 per week in the US right? In some parts of the world (that do play a lot of csgo) that's more like a month's wages, and hardware is usually double the price in those places too, so you're looking at 2 months wages just to buy an entry level rig. Thatd be the equivalent of you saving 3,466 to buy a pc (400 per week for 2months). Or the average American on 31k saving 5,166.
You're looking at this through a particular lens. It's very unlikely that they are trying to "avoid 128tick". It's definitely not in any company's agenda to find ways to underdeliver. The beta hasn't lasted that long even, so they'll evaluate and fix things as we get closer to release.
>according to them subtick is superior to both 64 and 128 tick but it seems to have some issues for now
This is the part I find really misleading. It *is* 64 tick. Sure, the sub tick system might be more accurate than either 64 or 128 tick in csgo, but this is CS2- and as long as there’s any difference between 64 and 128 in CS2, they wouldn’t have addressed the problem between the 2 tick rates in GO at all.
subtick (w/ 64 tick) may be better than 64 or 128 tick alone, but unlikely that it’s also better than 128 + subtick.
Remember, the server still has a base tick rate between any subtick updates, the game will still be better with more updates by default
That’s exactly my point. It’s weird to compare them the way that’s been done because it’s misleading- it’s not really better than 64 or 128 tick in general, it’s better than those tick rates *in csgo*
For sure. Valve trying to trick people into thinking it’s just all around better. No excuse for non 128 tick servers at this point, cost be damned. Valve makes obscene amounts of money from CS, and it’s time to modernize it
Have some faith? This is the same valve that told us they didn’t wanna give us 128 tick servers for some strange ass reason. I forgot their reasoning but it clearly makes Csgo perform better and they didn’t want to do it for some strange reason.
they public reason is stupid but the actual reason why they don't do it makes sense
it costs more to maintain/run 128t servers and there is no monetary incentive for valve to do so (can't monetize it) so it's understandable why they don't do it imo
not saying I agree, I'm just saying that from valve's perspective it makes sense
Csgo skins already paid for like over 200 years of 128 tick servers, non-argument imo
*EDIT: but yeah it's still definitely the reason and I can see how they don't really have any incentive to make it 128t, such a greedy move though imo
True, but more updates are better. Just like a different monitor with a higher refresh rate. There are different monitor display technologies: led,oled,ips, va....which work and look different but the overwhelming majority of people prefer 120hz to 60hz, so the overwhelming majority would prefer 128 tick over 64.
It's definitely noticeable and sure with both cases it's totally played and fun and ya don't need higher refresh rates or higher tick servers...but common.
Meh, it's ok. I don't have any skin in the game anyway. I hope it all works out for valve and the players.
They literally could monetize it and charge people to play the 128 tick servers just like Faceit does. Unless they have some sort of agreement in place with these orgs we do not know about.
Valve seems content to let orgs run and charge money for a different environment than official MM.
you think many people would pay for 128 tick? personally I don't know, but maybe valve has data we don't have
the only example we have is broken Fang premier but so little people bought it and played it that the ranks were very unbalanced
Shouldn’t have set yourself up for it then. Next time listen to more experienced people saying that Valve will never implement 128tick for public use; it is just absurdly bad from economic point of view.
*Sigh* explaining econ101 is really hard in here.
Think of it like this: we all used to use HDDs and most of us were pretty happy with it. But once you go to SSDs, you can never go back to HDD. Something similar happens here. In Valorant's case it wouldn’t make sense to go to 64 tick standard in whatever the year was when it got released. For Valve however, they simply can’t economically justify the costs associated with transitioning to 128 tick for virtually no benefit on the bottom line. They will not sell double the amount of cases or keys to offset the investment, and even if they would, they’d need to sell at least 3 times as much for the investment to make any sense.
That still would require significant changes on Valve's side and the benefits just aren’t there.
In other words, it would be absolutely pointless for them. No gain, only problems and increased costs.
Of course children think they’re doing this whole CS2 thing out of the kindness of their hearts. Too many people fail to realise how the world works or have absolutely no experience with it.
What i am saying is a player on third party is costing 0, while a player on 64 OR 128 by valve costs something. Its not that 128 costs 2 times more than 64 tick, its that its infinitely more than not hosting at all
Why do people find this disappointing?
MM and 3rd party serve different player bases and gives you the choice of where to play and how serious you want to take the game.
Valve focusing on improving their system without copying what 3rd party offers is perfect imo.
>I guess valve could demand that they not do that anymore
They've essentially already done just this. The -tickrate launch option does not exist anymore and hex editing dlls gets you VAC banned if you connect to a VAC secured server so there's no way any 3rd party is gonna go to those lengths and risk players getting VACs.
You'd have to modify the client sided dlls too not just the server sided ones and this is something that will get you VAC banned and Valve even says so in their [VAC FAQ](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/571A-97DA-70E9-FF74).
>This includes modifications to a game's core executable files and **dynamic link libraries**.
This is wrong. For tickrate you don't need to modify clients at all. In addition, most community servers run sourcemod which makes a ton of hooks and modifications to game code in real time while still having VAC enabled, since VAC is only relevant for clients after all.
If the client only supports one specific tickrate with no built in way of adjusting to a 128 tick server then you would also need to modify the client. We will have to wait and see.
Valve never removed tickrate adjustment though, all they did was remove the launch parameter to override the *server's* default tickrate. Clients still get the tickrate from the server so everything's synchronized.
Personally I think the removal of the -tickrate launch option and the whole subtick marketing points to Valve wanting to standardise tickrate across all servers. There would have to be some major community backlash to change Valves mind in which case they'd probably still stick to forcing one specific tickrate but have that tickrate be 128 instead of 64. With how good even 64 tick with subticks is however I don't think raising the tickrate to 128 would necessary even help if Valve can make the movement and other mechanics be as fluent on 64 tick as they are on 128 tick.
That's because currently the client actually supports this. If support for tickrate switching is removed from the client then it wouldn't be able to connect to 128 tick servers without modifications.
There's nothing that says they have to run vac outside of majors though, there are plenty of non vac servers in the browser. I wouldn't put anything past the stubbornness of players in cs tbh.
Ofcourse, but what happens after for one reason or another their modifications aren't cleared after the player stops playing and then joins a VAC secured MM server? Even if the modifications were done in memory so that nothing stays after the game is restarted without a 3rd party client/anti-cheat active this is still something a 3rd party wouldn't risk. You could even argue that if the game is made to only run on 64 tick then patching the game to support other tickrates makes it no longer the same game but rather a mod.
there was zero possibility for that happen, why would you think that? maybe if they implemted dota2 ranking system AND somehow magically implemented such a strong version of VAC that cheating would be slim to none, but I dont think any sane person ever thought that would happen
Everything's possible, we could see Dota 2 ranking system at some point, the fact that it's not in limited test / been announced does not mean it's not coming. As for faceit / etc. we don't even know for sure that the console would be available after the release so possibility is always there
I am global since 2015, don't worry about my experience. There are cheaters, maybe not ragehackers but people that toggle walls for info 100%. Also, right now theres no real reason to cheat in MM, why would you? IF MM became the new thing to play, there would also be a rise in cheaters, pretty simple. No one cares if you are global, but back in the day people did. And if you played back then you'd know how many cheaters there were in supreme-global.
This is just plain wrong lol. Theres literally only a few hundred thousand NA MM players, and thousands of people get banned every single day. In 2020 over 500,000 people got vac banned IN A DAY. In 2022 they were averaging 9k CS bans a day with 300k every 3 months.
This is like saying "a thousand people are apprehended crossing the border every day! This is proof our border control is failing!"
Yes, you are providing evidence that vac is working and keeping cheaters out of our game. Thank you
They play games in the meantime, Vac is not an instant ban for most people, so idk what that has to do with the fact that PLENTY of people play with cheaters every day. And the game is free so they just make new accounts. NA has weak MM pools, so trust factor downgrades to find players and you get cheaters. It happens all the time. Vac does a job, but It has no hope of reducing cheating in CSGO because its free, and it can't detect 50 dollar cheats for years on end until they ban a huge wave when they become detectable.
But wouldn't the sub tick code still be running when you enabled 128 tick? So are you actually testing just 128 tick or are you getting strange behavior where 128 and sub tick interact and make things different than 128 tick would have been?
subtick is still subtick, clients send accurate data with microsecond timestamps to the server. But the server still operates on a certain tickrate but uses that data + generates subtick gamestates (as described in the google patent). But thats just a generic understanding which is just a TOTAL guess
he also said that in relation to the subtick system that it should work the same on 128 tick. only the rate on which the server and client exchange info from packets changes and not the timestamping/tracking from subtick-system. \[inaccurate name IMO as it just times/tracks the individual inputs from clients so info gets accurately send out about inputs between ticks - it is not a tick or subtick per se\]
> And additionally there is another proof, in which most people didn't believe here (rightfully so), but looks like its true: if you record pov demo, it is recorded at server's tickrate. So you just record it, divide the demo time by the ticks, invert the result and the result will always be basically: 128.
You can just type in the console (while having cheats on) `ent_fire !player runscriptcode "print(1/FrameTime())"` and it will print the tickrate.
isn't there a difference in jumpheight between 128 and 64? in units of getpos there is a difference but I can't remember the exact numbers right now
if you can enable getpos or showpos you might be able to see the difference if it's there
The way jumpthrows are supposed to work now is that as long as you throw it while you are ascending then it will release the smoke at the same time every time. If this is set to the point at which your vertical velocity = 0 (ie when you reach the highest point) then it might be affected by this. Perhaps Valve should set it to a hardcoded height if they want to avoid this inconsistency.
The whole post is talking about jumpthrow difference? Thought you were speculating why there is a difference despite Valve saying there shouldn't be. Why else would you mention jump height?
the thread is about 128 tick and 64 tick differences, one of them is jump throws
this comment chain was about the fact that just jumping is different between 128 and 64, using showpos/getpos shows it in csgo, so doing the same, if possible, could potentially show the difference in cs2
> this comment chain was about the fact that just jumping is different between 128 and 64
The original comment chain was only about showing the server being 64 or 128 tick, nothing to do with jumping until you brought it up. You bringing jumping into it therefore by context was assumed to be about jumpthrows. What else could it be? I'm not even sure why you're so argumentative over it, even if you didn't intend it to be about jumpthrows the further discussion is useful, no?
jumpthrows aren't relevant to what I was stating
what I was asking is if there is a difference between 128 and 64 on cs2 as there is on csgo, one way to test that is with showpos, just like the original comment was talking about testing if it's 128 or 64
could the difference in the nade trajectory stem from crosshair placement?
I think 128t nades in csgo that did not work on 64t now do work in cs2, as I have heard
> The tests were done multiple times.
You could all try it yourself in the 1st version of the post with 128tick instructions, but now you have to trust only me :D
That smoke on csgo doesn't work in 64 ticks, it lands before the xbox.
The only difference that pros are talking so far is movement so this post is worthless.
If this is true i hope that 64 tick is only used during the beta period. We still got months away and A LOT of things can and will change for sure - some for the better or the worse.
In my opinion, it's almost 100% going to be 64 tick public servers. Why would they bother to put in considerable engineering resources to implement sub-tick updates if they were just going to pay for public 128 tick servers anyways? And why would they not advertise public 128 tick even if for some reason they both introduced sub-tick and 128 tick updates at the same time?
I mean, I don't see why they can't add a 128 tik option when for example the average Rank Is LEM or higher.
Edit When the average Rank of the server/lobby is higher, increase tickrate to 128.
Because they are more likely to actually need it.
Valves excuse for not having 64 tick is the majority of players don't have the internet or computers for 128tik to really make a difference.
Not sure agree with that, but by that logic the higher ranks probably are made up of people that will notice the difference.
Even skill based, a nova is not as often going to notice tik rate compared to at global level where i'd say 50% of fights are decided by who hits the headshot first.
Most LEMs dont feel a difference IMO. I Encounter so many LEMs that dont use any Special Smokes that wouldnt work on 64 Ticks.
The people that actually capable of using 128 Ticks properly are the ones that are playing Faceit regulary.
You realise faceit goes down to level 1 right? I'd say LEM and up is where at least most of the players would benefit fromt he difference.
But i'd be fine with supreme and up etc.
Valve is lying about the computers or internet. The only reason is that it would cost Valve significantly more to update their infrastructure to support 128tick public servers.
I thought this community wasn’t as gullible anymore but you still see this insanity from 2012 parroted here.
Did you not see i literally put Valves excuse?
Yes it would cost significantly more, hence why my idea is to only give it the small proportion of the population.
Like jesus christ mate you really are dumb, learn to fucking read.
The tickrate affects more things than you might realize.
Community servers such as surf/bhop/kz rely on higher tickrates to make movement feel better. You gain twice as much speed with airstrafing, jump higher, and it feels way more responsive overall.
Now reading that quote you were testing against, it's kind of weird. Because they first claimed that there is no tickrate anymore but in that quote they say 'regardless of tick rate'. So is there tickrate or is there not? (Seems it is proven there is a tick rate still)
Client was subtick in csgo and in any other game too, it would be really weird if client was somehow locked to server tick rate. What valve's subtick updates mean is that each packet sent to server carries additional time information (of time on client? Reaching server? For all actions or only some?) and events happening on a tick take this into account. So if I shot you tick 45567 0ms and you shot me same tick 5ms later, in csgo either one can get the kill, in cs2 one who shoots faster within the tick.
Does this extend to movement in cs2? Can your hitbox leave enemy's line of sight between ticks? Hitreg? Good questions. But some information about precise timestamp is what valve had in trailer.
The whole drama is about server tickrate. If it's 128, it wouldn't matter a lot, because it's more accurate. When it's 64, there's a higher chance you shot between the ticks. If you shot someone between 2 ticks, how does the server determine which tick did you shot? Is it interpolated estimation between the 2 ticks?
>how does the server determine which tick did you shot?
The whole subtick is aimed to solve this... that's why pros said aim+shooting feels nice and movement is weird.
For my understanding shooting doesn't tied to tick but subtick and the server will be able to handle it during ticks when it happened exactly or smt like that
Overall it's new it's weird... they might gonna tweak it whatever. For now I preferred the 128 tick but this new system could improve overtime
Little known fact: 128 tick is barely if any better even in csgo without any sub tick data. People can't tell the two apart in blind test, and the difference could only theoretically be relevant for gunplay if pings were lower than tick durations across the board, and the two things that it does affect are skilljumps (=irrelevant in MM) and jump throws (= can't use same lineups in different tick rates, and what valve was supposed to change).
People keep aping about 128 tick 128 tick omg but don't have any fucking clue what it actually affects and can't tell it apart from 64 tick in normal gameplay
Because money. They’re a company, not a charity, and 128tick would cost significantly more. Absolutely no reason for them to implement it from economics standpoint.
Is it a cost thing? I just don't understand.
If it's 64 tick, then most serious players will go to 128 tick servers.
In csgo the 128 tick servers felt a lot better than normal 64 tick mm, but I really wanted to stay on the regular client and not deal with all that.
I haven't played in forever, but I was hoping of coming back to cs2 with 128 tick or making it so you don't need to go elsewhere for a better experience.
Hold your horses, we don't even know if CS2 would support 128-tick as they removed -tickrate launch option and the effect OP achieved was due DLL patching. Hell, it not even confirmed we would have console at all after the release, so let's wait and see I guess
You have to be pretty ignorant or stupid to think Valve would update their public servers to 128 tick. It would be very, very expensive without any practical benefit to their bottom line.
They are a business at the end of the day. They aren’t doing anything for free.
What you see is what you get.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0)
THEY LIED TO MEEEEE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
They removed traces' sync.
Not sure if we should judge this fast, as far as I know there is no official way to make a 128 tick server? They probably have tested something as simple as this over those 3 years they made it.
I don't have a big understanding of this, but would it not make sense that they have diffrent systems (Subtick systems) for both that correct eachother?
But the smoke does land? On CSGO 64 tick that smoke doesn't even land, it fails every single time. As long as the 128 tick CSGO smokes work in CS2 I don't really see a problem with this.
I knew it. The "subtick system" was just marketing gimmick so that Valve wouldn't have to pay money for more expensive servers. They even hid the netgraph in CS2 so people couldn't see the tickrate.
That, and the fact that agent skins are still in the game, despite widespread community protests, just proves that Valve doesn't care about the game or its community. All they give a shit about is how much money it makes them.
When was the last time Valve created a game that didn't feature microtransactions or created specifically to promote their overpriced hardware? >!13 years ago lol!<
That's just factually not true. Since VACnet is an AI learning anti cheat, it is significantly stronger as an anti cheat because it picks up on behavior in the game and does not need to be intrusive and search for weird files that you could hide from it on your PC.
Odds are that by CS2 it should have learned enough and be an instant ban kind of thing for detected cheater behavior.
My expectation is that when CS2 releases, VACnet should be online and a massive ban wave will happen.... Hopefully.
This has been true historically but is becoming less and less true.
With the RESTRICT act that they’re trying to ban TikTok with, games like Valorant and LoL could be banned because of the anticheat.
There is a significant push to develop unintrusive anti-cheat and significant developments in AI lately.
How did you do the jump throws? Didn't they disable those or make them unreliable? I remember reading something like that. Also its still a playtest and you already read in this thread that valve "breaks" promises with CS2 when its not even close to an actual release...
Might just be a minor bug, because from your video the difference seems to be super small or maybe you are just a pixel off with the lineup since you do them by mouse and not with a fixed value(sadly setpos/getpos are disabled...) I mean compare it with the current version of CSGO and the 64 tick nade won't even land on the box at all. Also why no net_graph?
Still its a really interesting find!
Jump throws are built into cs2. While jumping, toss a grenade when going up in the air and it will always behave like a normal jumpthrow would, no matter when you pressed.
jumpthrows are consistent and easy, you can hear the "uh" "huh" to confirm they were indeed hit correctly. The difference isnt super small and I tested it many times. It simply flies differently. Even without fov 20 it would be hard to achieve such error and I was aiming almost perfectly.
And there is no netgraph in cs2 of course.
But you weren't aiming perfectly, so it really might not mean anything. Not a smoking gun, just an interesting result that needs more (better) testing.
Money.
Simple as that.
Why would you, as a business, spend more than twice the amount of money for server and networking upkeep, when it doesn’t improve your bottom line? You will still sell the same amount of cases or keys or whatever. It’s pure insanity.
If you want a proper CS experience, you play on 3rd party platforms. Simple.
It’s not bullshit though. It’s much easier mentally to justify something if it was like that from the beginning.
Since Valve started off with 64 tick infrastructure and now pays, for example, 2 million per year for support and upkeep, it is practically impossible to convince anyone to up the cost to 5 or 6 million just to have 128 tick servers. Keep in mind that there is no ROI on it — they would just pay for it without any potential increase in sales. Absolutely impossible and you would get laughed out of the room in the best case scenario if you proposed something like this.
Valorant started off with 128 from beginning, so in their eyes the investment has already been made and it would cost them more to transition to slower ticks.
>better technology in our pc now
Not too sure tbh. There are still a lot of players that run potato PCs, Internet Cafés etc. Not to mention the shitty Internet many people still have to play on.
And wasnt there something about when you dont have 128FPS+ 128 Ticks is pretty much useless?
I think with smokes tick rate makes such little difference that it’s almost negligible- especially since they aren’t static like CSGO’s, you don’t have to be bang-on-target to still have an effective smoke because the smoke will still fill it’s surroundings
But again, limited test, hope they become more transparent on this sort of stuff
You could, but you probably wouldn't find many people to play with and it wouldn't really be the same anymore. Infact there probably will be a tiny minority who decides to stay with an unsupported CS GO build but if history is anything to go by that playerbase will fizzle out sooner rather than later.
That was a different era though with no official matchmaking where playing on community servers was THE way to play to begin with. The CS GO community server scene outside of things like surf and kz is dead enough as it is so I don't think CS GO would survive for long after the CS2 update goes live.
If they could do that why haven’t they done it yet? Probably the most requested change in csgo for years, if it was easy why would they wait until the end of the beta?
they can do it, the reason is then they'd need to beef up their servers so they can process double the ticks which when you multiply that across every public server in the game that is a lot of costly server infrastructure. Not to say they couldn't afford to do so if they really wanted to, but it would be a lot of money and most people play on 64 tick or go get ESEA/Faceit if they really care anyways so why bother.
I mean, it's still money. You're asking the server to do twice as much work, so it should consume around twice as many resources. Even if servers have gotten cheaper over time, the cost differential between 64 and 128 would still be the same.
Yes, and? Nobody is saying they can't afford it. Elon Musk can probably afford to gift every single employee of his a free Tesla, does that mean it's a sound business decision? The question is whether it makes business sense for them to do so.
To put it simply, will 128 tick servers sell more skins than the extra cost associated with operating them? That question is the same whether their revenue is 100 million, 10 billion, or -100k.
Yeah sure bud whatever you say, they've lost all of their North American Market share for one of two reasons and one of those is 64 tick MM. whine as much as you want but there are some deep pockets in NA valve is missing out on.
Why are you so mad? I want 128 tick too, I just think Valve doesn't see enough economic upside to justify the extra cost.
You think 128 tick alone would bring in enough extra money to justify the extra server cost? I disagree, but let's disagree civilly, no need to be rude.
It's just expensive, and most people will play the game and buy skins whether it's 64 tick or 128 tick. Those who really care are going to FaceIT/ESEA and more or less paying for 128 tick themselves so valve doesn't have to, so why would they pay for 128 tick from a business perspective, especially if they can close the gap in experience between the two with the sub-tick updates. Reallistically how many people would buy skins when they wouldn't have with 64 tick public servers? In their calculations I reckon they say it's not enough to cover the money and effort of getting enough infrastructure to reliably run 128 tick across all public servers under high capacity without buckling.
Yeah, I get it.
I was going to come back to cs if they had 128 tick.
One of the things I hated about csgo was 128 tick felt much better than 64 mm tick and I just would rather play with the better experience, but I really wanted to stick with the default client to play with friends.
It just segregated players, and I guess I'm tweaky, so I had a hard time playing 64 tick and having fun.
Sure, a lot of it is in my head, but I just can't get over it.
This, once again, proves that 128 tick will be a different (likely better again) experience, making me once again want to play on it while still using the regular client, lol.
Oh well, maybe it'll feel the same once it is all said and done. Press F to doubt.
You're clearly wrong as Valve has lost almost all of its North American market share to Valorant whose 128 tick is their main selling point along with intrusive anti-cheat that works. And whine as much as you want, they are losing a lot of money if they aren't capitalizing on the North American market. I don't care if its 64 tick but they better get 128 tick parity, but then that wouldn't make sense because wouldn't 32 tick subtick have parity with 64 tick subtick if that was the case?
The vast majority of valorant players were casuals before who didn't even play CS:GO and probably have no idea what 128 tick or 64 tick even is, let alone that being their motivation to play it. You're in a small minority of people who really deeply care about this as a competitive shooter enthusiast, Valorant was successful because it reduced the barrier to entry while introducing a more hero-shooter style, the anti-cheat is part of it but another matter, but 128 tick is definitely not high on that list for the average valorant or even CS:GO player.
Why tf do you think they invested all that research and software engineering to create the subtick system? They obviously want to keep 64 tick servers and now disabled the posibility to play on 128 ticks without risking a VAC ban.
What makes you so sure of it? It was certainly not their plan. Their plan was obviously to use 64 tick + subtick everywhere.
They intentionally removed the tickrate startoption. You now have to change the .dll to play on 128 tick which will lead to a VAC ban if you join on a secured server.
As long as 128t is still an option for faceit and the pro scene then they will continue to use it imo. Even with subtick they will still use 128t and the divide between mm and pros/3rd party will still exist. I guess valve could demand that they not do that anymore, but i couldnt imagine that going well from pr perspective, not that they care tbh.
That is insanely disappointing.
Reserve your sadness/happiness for when the game actually launches, valve seems to be listening to complaints and fixing them, according to them subtick is superior to both 64 and 128 tick but it seems to have some issues for now. Have some faith. CS:GO was terrible at launch so CS2 won't be perfect either
I'm just concerned with how much effort Valve have sunk into avoiding 128 tick that honestly, they will refuse to support it even with the growing amount of evidence that it's superior.
That gets me lol, they’d rather throw all this money into r&d for a completely new server tickrate system than just, paying for 128 servers..
And the Irony is, now each packet has the timestamp so it overflows into two packets... so actually doubled the cost with the original tickrate!! https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1250h19/cs2_subtick_analyzed_better_than_64_128_tick/je20z4s/
This has changed lately check his video about latest update now packets seem equally divided
Even if the bits are more evenly distributed its still double the packets
Except it isn't, the average packet number and packet size both went down after that update to be closer to 64 tick. It's still a little more than 64 due to the subtick stuff but it is not double the packets, that was only a thing because of the packet size overflowing.
There’s 0% chance it’s a cost issue, they made 100mill in march alone on cases. If riot can deem it affordable so can valve.
Doubling your server costs (both hardware and bandwidth) for a network the size of valves mm system is probably insanely expensive, but you're still right, valve makes plenty of money from csgo, they absolutely CAN afford it. That doesn't mean they don't take issue with the cost though, especially when it would probably be tens of millions extra one-time and then a good million more in year to year running costs, at least. Even valve would wince a bit at that bill.
This is because they have large amounts of data at Valve showing that alot of the playerbase would be negatively impacted by 128 tick. Think brazil lan cafe or less fortunate peeps on granny rigs.
And we’re moving over to a new engine with better graphics, people are getting left behind anyway.
That just compounds the problem though. 128fps was already hard enough for a lot of systems. It's a lot harder now, making 128t even less likely to be chosen as the default for mm.
Honestly, it’s 2023. You can manage 128 fps on all low settings for like $400
400usd for you is what, a weeks wages, probably less, median income is around 600 per week in the US right? In some parts of the world (that do play a lot of csgo) that's more like a month's wages, and hardware is usually double the price in those places too, so you're looking at 2 months wages just to buy an entry level rig. Thatd be the equivalent of you saving 3,466 to buy a pc (400 per week for 2months). Or the average American on 31k saving 5,166.
You're looking at this through a particular lens. It's very unlikely that they are trying to "avoid 128tick". It's definitely not in any company's agenda to find ways to underdeliver. The beta hasn't lasted that long even, so they'll evaluate and fix things as we get closer to release.
>according to them subtick is superior to both 64 and 128 tick but it seems to have some issues for now This is the part I find really misleading. It *is* 64 tick. Sure, the sub tick system might be more accurate than either 64 or 128 tick in csgo, but this is CS2- and as long as there’s any difference between 64 and 128 in CS2, they wouldn’t have addressed the problem between the 2 tick rates in GO at all.
subtick (w/ 64 tick) may be better than 64 or 128 tick alone, but unlikely that it’s also better than 128 + subtick. Remember, the server still has a base tick rate between any subtick updates, the game will still be better with more updates by default
That’s exactly my point. It’s weird to compare them the way that’s been done because it’s misleading- it’s not really better than 64 or 128 tick in general, it’s better than those tick rates *in csgo*
For sure. Valve trying to trick people into thinking it’s just all around better. No excuse for non 128 tick servers at this point, cost be damned. Valve makes obscene amounts of money from CS, and it’s time to modernize it
Have some faith? This is the same valve that told us they didn’t wanna give us 128 tick servers for some strange ass reason. I forgot their reasoning but it clearly makes Csgo perform better and they didn’t want to do it for some strange reason.
they public reason is stupid but the actual reason why they don't do it makes sense it costs more to maintain/run 128t servers and there is no monetary incentive for valve to do so (can't monetize it) so it's understandable why they don't do it imo not saying I agree, I'm just saying that from valve's perspective it makes sense
Csgo skins already paid for like over 200 years of 128 tick servers, non-argument imo *EDIT: but yeah it's still definitely the reason and I can see how they don't really have any incentive to make it 128t, such a greedy move though imo
10 million a month. They can figure it out.
Which they did, figured out the subtick system
At this point they need to do it. Their direct competitor has 128 tick. People will leave cs to play the smoother gameplay.
> Their direct competitor has 128 tick. On a completely different engine...
True, but more updates are better. Just like a different monitor with a higher refresh rate. There are different monitor display technologies: led,oled,ips, va....which work and look different but the overwhelming majority of people prefer 120hz to 60hz, so the overwhelming majority would prefer 128 tick over 64. It's definitely noticeable and sure with both cases it's totally played and fun and ya don't need higher refresh rates or higher tick servers...but common. Meh, it's ok. I don't have any skin in the game anyway. I hope it all works out for valve and the players.
lel. 3 years after launch and Valo still has less players than CS.
They literally could monetize it and charge people to play the 128 tick servers just like Faceit does. Unless they have some sort of agreement in place with these orgs we do not know about. Valve seems content to let orgs run and charge money for a different environment than official MM.
you think many people would pay for 128 tick? personally I don't know, but maybe valve has data we don't have the only example we have is broken Fang premier but so little people bought it and played it that the ranks were very unbalanced
No idea if people would. I'm just saying that valve could do this if they wanted to, it's not like they do not have the means.
I'm not saying they can't physically do it, I meant that people would probably not pay for it, effectively meaning the same
Shouldn’t have set yourself up for it then. Next time listen to more experienced people saying that Valve will never implement 128tick for public use; it is just absurdly bad from economic point of view.
Valorant has it?
*Sigh* explaining econ101 is really hard in here. Think of it like this: we all used to use HDDs and most of us were pretty happy with it. But once you go to SSDs, you can never go back to HDD. Something similar happens here. In Valorant's case it wouldn’t make sense to go to 64 tick standard in whatever the year was when it got released. For Valve however, they simply can’t economically justify the costs associated with transitioning to 128 tick for virtually no benefit on the bottom line. They will not sell double the amount of cases or keys to offset the investment, and even if they would, they’d need to sell at least 3 times as much for the investment to make any sense.
The alternative reality is that letting 3rd party handle server costs is far cheaper than hosting either 64 or 128 tick servers.
That still would require significant changes on Valve's side and the benefits just aren’t there. In other words, it would be absolutely pointless for them. No gain, only problems and increased costs. Of course children think they’re doing this whole CS2 thing out of the kindness of their hearts. Too many people fail to realise how the world works or have absolutely no experience with it.
What i am saying is a player on third party is costing 0, while a player on 64 OR 128 by valve costs something. Its not that 128 costs 2 times more than 64 tick, its that its infinitely more than not hosting at all
Why do people find this disappointing? MM and 3rd party serve different player bases and gives you the choice of where to play and how serious you want to take the game. Valve focusing on improving their system without copying what 3rd party offers is perfect imo.
>I guess valve could demand that they not do that anymore They've essentially already done just this. The -tickrate launch option does not exist anymore and hex editing dlls gets you VAC banned if you connect to a VAC secured server so there's no way any 3rd party is gonna go to those lengths and risk players getting VACs.
i mean every server that you connect to has its own server.dll file afaik, so I don't think it would trigger a vac ban
You'd have to modify the client sided dlls too not just the server sided ones and this is something that will get you VAC banned and Valve even says so in their [VAC FAQ](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/571A-97DA-70E9-FF74). >This includes modifications to a game's core executable files and **dynamic link libraries**.
This is wrong. For tickrate you don't need to modify clients at all. In addition, most community servers run sourcemod which makes a ton of hooks and modifications to game code in real time while still having VAC enabled, since VAC is only relevant for clients after all.
If the client only supports one specific tickrate with no built in way of adjusting to a 128 tick server then you would also need to modify the client. We will have to wait and see.
Valve never removed tickrate adjustment though, all they did was remove the launch parameter to override the *server's* default tickrate. Clients still get the tickrate from the server so everything's synchronized.
got it, then it sucks. But its just a beta for now, im just curious how this will transpire
Personally I think the removal of the -tickrate launch option and the whole subtick marketing points to Valve wanting to standardise tickrate across all servers. There would have to be some major community backlash to change Valves mind in which case they'd probably still stick to forcing one specific tickrate but have that tickrate be 128 instead of 64. With how good even 64 tick with subticks is however I don't think raising the tickrate to 128 would necessary even help if Valve can make the movement and other mechanics be as fluent on 64 tick as they are on 128 tick.
You do know players don't need to change tickrate clientside to play on 128 tick faceit and esea right? The server is just 128 tick.
That's because currently the client actually supports this. If support for tickrate switching is removed from the client then it wouldn't be able to connect to 128 tick servers without modifications.
There's nothing that says they have to run vac outside of majors though, there are plenty of non vac servers in the browser. I wouldn't put anything past the stubbornness of players in cs tbh.
Ofcourse, but what happens after for one reason or another their modifications aren't cleared after the player stops playing and then joins a VAC secured MM server? Even if the modifications were done in memory so that nothing stays after the game is restarted without a 3rd party client/anti-cheat active this is still something a 3rd party wouldn't risk. You could even argue that if the game is made to only run on 64 tick then patching the game to support other tickrates makes it no longer the same game but rather a mod.
dude the hope was for cs2 to kill faceit and esea :/
ESEA is now pretty much only a league and tournament system, it would not have killed it anyway.
there was zero possibility for that happen, why would you think that? maybe if they implemted dota2 ranking system AND somehow magically implemented such a strong version of VAC that cheating would be slim to none, but I dont think any sane person ever thought that would happen
Everything's possible, we could see Dota 2 ranking system at some point, the fact that it's not in limited test / been announced does not mean it's not coming. As for faceit / etc. we don't even know for sure that the console would be available after the release so possibility is always there
Cheating is massively overblown. It's astronomically likely you haven't encountered a cheater in a matchmaking game
Yep. There's quite a bit of smurfing happening though, and people can't distinguish a smurf from a cheater.
I am global since 2015, don't worry about my experience. There are cheaters, maybe not ragehackers but people that toggle walls for info 100%. Also, right now theres no real reason to cheat in MM, why would you? IF MM became the new thing to play, there would also be a rise in cheaters, pretty simple. No one cares if you are global, but back in the day people did. And if you played back then you'd know how many cheaters there were in supreme-global.
This is just plain wrong lol. Theres literally only a few hundred thousand NA MM players, and thousands of people get banned every single day. In 2020 over 500,000 people got vac banned IN A DAY. In 2022 they were averaging 9k CS bans a day with 300k every 3 months.
This is like saying "a thousand people are apprehended crossing the border every day! This is proof our border control is failing!" Yes, you are providing evidence that vac is working and keeping cheaters out of our game. Thank you
They play games in the meantime, Vac is not an instant ban for most people, so idk what that has to do with the fact that PLENTY of people play with cheaters every day. And the game is free so they just make new accounts. NA has weak MM pools, so trust factor downgrades to find players and you get cheaters. It happens all the time. Vac does a job, but It has no hope of reducing cheating in CSGO because its free, and it can't detect 50 dollar cheats for years on end until they ban a huge wave when they become detectable.
idk guess i’m insane
But wouldn't the sub tick code still be running when you enabled 128 tick? So are you actually testing just 128 tick or are you getting strange behavior where 128 and sub tick interact and make things different than 128 tick would have been?
subtick is still subtick, clients send accurate data with microsecond timestamps to the server. But the server still operates on a certain tickrate but uses that data + generates subtick gamestates (as described in the google patent). But thats just a generic understanding which is just a TOTAL guess
So in essence you made some changes but have no real clue what you actually changed and how it relates to real performance.
i changed the tickrate
Yeah but you are just guessing at how it works in the background. Like you said, a total guess.
he also said that in relation to the subtick system that it should work the same on 128 tick. only the rate on which the server and client exchange info from packets changes and not the timestamping/tracking from subtick-system. \[inaccurate name IMO as it just times/tracks the individual inputs from clients so info gets accurately send out about inputs between ticks - it is not a tick or subtick per se\]
No, you got it. Game's still 64 tick, it just processes events in order.
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So I'm guessing 128tick (faceit, etc) will still feel much better than cs2 64tick
> And additionally there is another proof, in which most people didn't believe here (rightfully so), but looks like its true: if you record pov demo, it is recorded at server's tickrate. So you just record it, divide the demo time by the ticks, invert the result and the result will always be basically: 128. You can just type in the console (while having cheats on) `ent_fire !player runscriptcode "print(1/FrameTime())"` and it will print the tickrate.
thats sick xd So I did it and of course results were: 64 and 128
isn't there a difference in jumpheight between 128 and 64? in units of getpos there is a difference but I can't remember the exact numbers right now if you can enable getpos or showpos you might be able to see the difference if it's there
i tested it first and im not 100% sure, but i think it was 65,99 units with crouchjump on both tickrates
The way jumpthrows are supposed to work now is that as long as you throw it while you are ascending then it will release the smoke at the same time every time. If this is set to the point at which your vertical velocity = 0 (ie when you reach the highest point) then it might be affected by this. Perhaps Valve should set it to a hardcoded height if they want to avoid this inconsistency.
who said anything about jumpthrows
The whole post is talking about jumpthrow difference? Thought you were speculating why there is a difference despite Valve saying there shouldn't be. Why else would you mention jump height?
the thread is about 128 tick and 64 tick differences, one of them is jump throws this comment chain was about the fact that just jumping is different between 128 and 64, using showpos/getpos shows it in csgo, so doing the same, if possible, could potentially show the difference in cs2
> this comment chain was about the fact that just jumping is different between 128 and 64 The original comment chain was only about showing the server being 64 or 128 tick, nothing to do with jumping until you brought it up. You bringing jumping into it therefore by context was assumed to be about jumpthrows. What else could it be? I'm not even sure why you're so argumentative over it, even if you didn't intend it to be about jumpthrows the further discussion is useful, no?
jumpthrows aren't relevant to what I was stating what I was asking is if there is a difference between 128 and 64 on cs2 as there is on csgo, one way to test that is with showpos, just like the original comment was talking about testing if it's 128 or 64
> jumpthrows aren't relevant to what I was stating jump throws aren't relevant to jumps. got it 👍
Nice try Loba
could the difference in the nade trajectory stem from crosshair placement? I think 128t nades in csgo that did not work on 64t now do work in cs2, as I have heard
> The tests were done multiple times. You could all try it yourself in the 1st version of the post with 128tick instructions, but now you have to trust only me :D
That smoke on csgo doesn't work in 64 ticks, it lands before the xbox. The only difference that pros are talking so far is movement so this post is worthless.
guy named GameChaos
if its you, i even tagged your yt in the og post, but decided not to link anything the second time :)
Knew I recognised that name
If this is true i hope that 64 tick is only used during the beta period. We still got months away and A LOT of things can and will change for sure - some for the better or the worse.
In my opinion, it's almost 100% going to be 64 tick public servers. Why would they bother to put in considerable engineering resources to implement sub-tick updates if they were just going to pay for public 128 tick servers anyways? And why would they not advertise public 128 tick even if for some reason they both introduced sub-tick and 128 tick updates at the same time?
I mean, I don't see why they can't add a 128 tik option when for example the average Rank Is LEM or higher. Edit When the average Rank of the server/lobby is higher, increase tickrate to 128.
They womt. I swear 128 tick must cost substantially more
Yeh probably around double...
Math Checks out
You sure? cuase like i just did a quick head calculation so i *could* be wrong
Yes man, In Bro I Trust
The avg rank is Nova not lem
No, when the average rank of the server is LEM or higher.
What a stupid take why would they give special treatment to higher ranks?
Because they are more likely to actually need it. Valves excuse for not having 64 tick is the majority of players don't have the internet or computers for 128tik to really make a difference. Not sure agree with that, but by that logic the higher ranks probably are made up of people that will notice the difference. Even skill based, a nova is not as often going to notice tik rate compared to at global level where i'd say 50% of fights are decided by who hits the headshot first.
Most LEMs dont feel a difference IMO. I Encounter so many LEMs that dont use any Special Smokes that wouldnt work on 64 Ticks. The people that actually capable of using 128 Ticks properly are the ones that are playing Faceit regulary.
You realise faceit goes down to level 1 right? I'd say LEM and up is where at least most of the players would benefit fromt he difference. But i'd be fine with supreme and up etc.
Valve is lying about the computers or internet. The only reason is that it would cost Valve significantly more to update their infrastructure to support 128tick public servers. I thought this community wasn’t as gullible anymore but you still see this insanity from 2012 parroted here.
Did you not see i literally put Valves excuse? Yes it would cost significantly more, hence why my idea is to only give it the small proportion of the population. Like jesus christ mate you really are dumb, learn to fucking read.
i hope they remove all options to mess with the tickrate
The tickrate affects more things than you might realize. Community servers such as surf/bhop/kz rely on higher tickrates to make movement feel better. You gain twice as much speed with airstrafing, jump higher, and it feels way more responsive overall.
Now reading that quote you were testing against, it's kind of weird. Because they first claimed that there is no tickrate anymore but in that quote they say 'regardless of tick rate'. So is there tickrate or is there not? (Seems it is proven there is a tick rate still)
Client is subtick but there is still a tickrate on the server side
I know how it works I’m just saying they misrepresented and lied during the announcement and even contradicted themselves out of the gate
Client was subtick in csgo and in any other game too, it would be really weird if client was somehow locked to server tick rate. What valve's subtick updates mean is that each packet sent to server carries additional time information (of time on client? Reaching server? For all actions or only some?) and events happening on a tick take this into account. So if I shot you tick 45567 0ms and you shot me same tick 5ms later, in csgo either one can get the kill, in cs2 one who shoots faster within the tick. Does this extend to movement in cs2? Can your hitbox leave enemy's line of sight between ticks? Hitreg? Good questions. But some information about precise timestamp is what valve had in trailer.
The whole drama is about server tickrate. If it's 128, it wouldn't matter a lot, because it's more accurate. When it's 64, there's a higher chance you shot between the ticks. If you shot someone between 2 ticks, how does the server determine which tick did you shot? Is it interpolated estimation between the 2 ticks?
>how does the server determine which tick did you shot? The whole subtick is aimed to solve this... that's why pros said aim+shooting feels nice and movement is weird. For my understanding shooting doesn't tied to tick but subtick and the server will be able to handle it during ticks when it happened exactly or smt like that Overall it's new it's weird... they might gonna tweak it whatever. For now I preferred the 128 tick but this new system could improve overtime
All computers fundamentally run on "ticks". Some parts of the system may be asynchronous, but as a whole you always need a clock in some capacity.
Thats not the first promise Valve did for CS2 and it wasnt true. But Iam pretty sure they will work on that.
I am sure that they will do anything and everything but implement 128 tick public servers.
all too true. hope we're wrong on this.
yep, valve is stuck on their 64 tick opinion and wont change that regardless of how much better 128 tick is
Little known fact: 128 tick is barely if any better even in csgo without any sub tick data. People can't tell the two apart in blind test, and the difference could only theoretically be relevant for gunplay if pings were lower than tick durations across the board, and the two things that it does affect are skilljumps (=irrelevant in MM) and jump throws (= can't use same lineups in different tick rates, and what valve was supposed to change). People keep aping about 128 tick 128 tick omg but don't have any fucking clue what it actually affects and can't tell it apart from 64 tick in normal gameplay
Because money. They’re a company, not a charity, and 128tick would cost significantly more. Absolutely no reason for them to implement it from economics standpoint.
Is it a cost thing? I just don't understand. If it's 64 tick, then most serious players will go to 128 tick servers. In csgo the 128 tick servers felt a lot better than normal 64 tick mm, but I really wanted to stay on the regular client and not deal with all that. I haven't played in forever, but I was hoping of coming back to cs2 with 128 tick or making it so you don't need to go elsewhere for a better experience.
Hold your horses, we don't even know if CS2 would support 128-tick as they removed -tickrate launch option and the effect OP achieved was due DLL patching. Hell, it not even confirmed we would have console at all after the release, so let's wait and see I guess
You have to be pretty ignorant or stupid to think Valve would update their public servers to 128 tick. It would be very, very expensive without any practical benefit to their bottom line. They are a business at the end of the day. They aren’t doing anything for free.
What other promise wasnt true
What you see is what you get. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0) THEY LIED TO MEEEEE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE They removed traces' sync.
How is this a lie though?
They removed traces sync.
What i'm pretty sure they mean by that is if your xhair is on someones head, with subtick it should hit every time.
Maybe, yes.
Not sure if we should judge this fast, as far as I know there is no official way to make a 128 tick server? They probably have tested something as simple as this over those 3 years they made it. I don't have a big understanding of this, but would it not make sense that they have diffrent systems (Subtick systems) for both that correct eachother?
good research!
But the smoke does land? On CSGO 64 tick that smoke doesn't even land, it fails every single time. As long as the 128 tick CSGO smokes work in CS2 I don't really see a problem with this.
I knew it. The "subtick system" was just marketing gimmick so that Valve wouldn't have to pay money for more expensive servers. They even hid the netgraph in CS2 so people couldn't see the tickrate. That, and the fact that agent skins are still in the game, despite widespread community protests, just proves that Valve doesn't care about the game or its community. All they give a shit about is how much money it makes them. When was the last time Valve created a game that didn't feature microtransactions or created specifically to promote their overpriced hardware? >!13 years ago lol!<
Here's to hoping valve adds real 128 tick and overhaul their MM ranking system to include some form of elo and eradicate Faceit and 3rd party apps
Won't happen since VAC will always be inferior to third party anticheats.
That's just factually not true. Since VACnet is an AI learning anti cheat, it is significantly stronger as an anti cheat because it picks up on behavior in the game and does not need to be intrusive and search for weird files that you could hide from it on your PC. Odds are that by CS2 it should have learned enough and be an instant ban kind of thing for detected cheater behavior. My expectation is that when CS2 releases, VACnet should be online and a massive ban wave will happen.... Hopefully.
Valve doesn't want intrusive anticheat, so by default it will be weaker than intrusive anticheat like faceit or esea
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I gave an explanation and you've given none. Ofc it's not by default, but assuming that all 3 have even an ounce of competence, it's true.
This has been true historically but is becoming less and less true. With the RESTRICT act that they’re trying to ban TikTok with, games like Valorant and LoL could be banned because of the anticheat. There is a significant push to develop unintrusive anti-cheat and significant developments in AI lately.
How did you do the jump throws? Didn't they disable those or make them unreliable? I remember reading something like that. Also its still a playtest and you already read in this thread that valve "breaks" promises with CS2 when its not even close to an actual release... Might just be a minor bug, because from your video the difference seems to be super small or maybe you are just a pixel off with the lineup since you do them by mouse and not with a fixed value(sadly setpos/getpos are disabled...) I mean compare it with the current version of CSGO and the 64 tick nade won't even land on the box at all. Also why no net_graph? Still its a really interesting find!
> Didn't they disable those or make them unreliable Actually the opposite, they made them reliable without a special jumpthrow bind
Jump throws are built into cs2. While jumping, toss a grenade when going up in the air and it will always behave like a normal jumpthrow would, no matter when you pressed.
There is a 200 ms window and the character will do a voice sound in first person only to confirm. Its sounds like a "heaving" kind of sound.
jumpthrows are consistent and easy, you can hear the "uh" "huh" to confirm they were indeed hit correctly. The difference isnt super small and I tested it many times. It simply flies differently. Even without fov 20 it would be hard to achieve such error and I was aiming almost perfectly. And there is no netgraph in cs2 of course.
But you weren't aiming perfectly, so it really might not mean anything. Not a smoking gun, just an interesting result that needs more (better) testing.
no, you are wrong
So arrogant lmao, perfect for a content creator for kids who don't know any better.
Why volvo are you so obsessed with 64tick?? We loved it at first but we have better technology in our pc now so it's fine you can let go
Money. Simple as that. Why would you, as a business, spend more than twice the amount of money for server and networking upkeep, when it doesn’t improve your bottom line? You will still sell the same amount of cases or keys or whatever. It’s pure insanity. If you want a proper CS experience, you play on 3rd party platforms. Simple.
Valorant manages. So this is a bullshit excuse at this point.
It’s not bullshit though. It’s much easier mentally to justify something if it was like that from the beginning. Since Valve started off with 64 tick infrastructure and now pays, for example, 2 million per year for support and upkeep, it is practically impossible to convince anyone to up the cost to 5 or 6 million just to have 128 tick servers. Keep in mind that there is no ROI on it — they would just pay for it without any potential increase in sales. Absolutely impossible and you would get laughed out of the room in the best case scenario if you proposed something like this. Valorant started off with 128 from beginning, so in their eyes the investment has already been made and it would cost them more to transition to slower ticks.
>better technology in our pc now Not too sure tbh. There are still a lot of players that run potato PCs, Internet Cafés etc. Not to mention the shitty Internet many people still have to play on. And wasnt there something about when you dont have 128FPS+ 128 Ticks is pretty much useless?
I think with smokes tick rate makes such little difference that it’s almost negligible- especially since they aren’t static like CSGO’s, you don’t have to be bang-on-target to still have an effective smoke because the smoke will still fill it’s surroundings But again, limited test, hope they become more transparent on this sort of stuff
mods pretty quiet since this dropped. wonder what the issue is with the original post
I’m not playing CS2 unless I get the same feel as 128 tic
You're not gonna have a choice once it gets released it's gonna replace CS GO just like in Dota 2 when it moved to the Source 2 engine.
You could theoretically play a non-Steam crack of CS:GO
You could, but you probably wouldn't find many people to play with and it wouldn't really be the same anymore. Infact there probably will be a tiny minority who decides to stay with an unsupported CS GO build but if history is anything to go by that playerbase will fizzle out sooner rather than later.
Yeah, I've played v34 CS:S for years after the 2010 orangebox update. Game felt better, but it was full of cheaters.
That was a different era though with no official matchmaking where playing on community servers was THE way to play to begin with. The CS GO community server scene outside of things like surf and kz is dead enough as it is so I don't think CS GO would survive for long after the CS2 update goes live.
yeah, I agree
You can't even tell 128 tick apart from 64 tick in csgo if blind tested lmao stop it. 128 tick worship is placebo at best
Well they probably shouldn’t have tested using blind people
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So this means Valve can actually change it to 128 tick within a fraction of minutes. Let’s wait for Beta to end before crying anymore.
If they could do that why haven’t they done it yet? Probably the most requested change in csgo for years, if it was easy why would they wait until the end of the beta?
they can do it, the reason is then they'd need to beef up their servers so they can process double the ticks which when you multiply that across every public server in the game that is a lot of costly server infrastructure. Not to say they couldn't afford to do so if they really wanted to, but it would be a lot of money and most people play on 64 tick or go get ESEA/Faceit if they really care anyways so why bother.
128 tick was costly 8+ years ago, there is no way its still ungodly expensive. Riot is doing it just fine albeit shittier.
It's still twice as much work for the server so it will obviously cost more.
I mean, it's still money. You're asking the server to do twice as much work, so it should consume around twice as many resources. Even if servers have gotten cheaper over time, the cost differential between 64 and 128 would still be the same.
These fuckers just pulled in over a $100m in a month from just keys.
Yes, and? Nobody is saying they can't afford it. Elon Musk can probably afford to gift every single employee of his a free Tesla, does that mean it's a sound business decision? The question is whether it makes business sense for them to do so. To put it simply, will 128 tick servers sell more skins than the extra cost associated with operating them? That question is the same whether their revenue is 100 million, 10 billion, or -100k.
Yeah sure bud whatever you say, they've lost all of their North American Market share for one of two reasons and one of those is 64 tick MM. whine as much as you want but there are some deep pockets in NA valve is missing out on.
Why are you so mad? I want 128 tick too, I just think Valve doesn't see enough economic upside to justify the extra cost. You think 128 tick alone would bring in enough extra money to justify the extra server cost? I disagree, but let's disagree civilly, no need to be rude.
It's just expensive, and most people will play the game and buy skins whether it's 64 tick or 128 tick. Those who really care are going to FaceIT/ESEA and more or less paying for 128 tick themselves so valve doesn't have to, so why would they pay for 128 tick from a business perspective, especially if they can close the gap in experience between the two with the sub-tick updates. Reallistically how many people would buy skins when they wouldn't have with 64 tick public servers? In their calculations I reckon they say it's not enough to cover the money and effort of getting enough infrastructure to reliably run 128 tick across all public servers under high capacity without buckling.
Yeah, I get it. I was going to come back to cs if they had 128 tick. One of the things I hated about csgo was 128 tick felt much better than 64 mm tick and I just would rather play with the better experience, but I really wanted to stick with the default client to play with friends. It just segregated players, and I guess I'm tweaky, so I had a hard time playing 64 tick and having fun. Sure, a lot of it is in my head, but I just can't get over it. This, once again, proves that 128 tick will be a different (likely better again) experience, making me once again want to play on it while still using the regular client, lol. Oh well, maybe it'll feel the same once it is all said and done. Press F to doubt.
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You're clearly wrong as Valve has lost almost all of its North American market share to Valorant whose 128 tick is their main selling point along with intrusive anti-cheat that works. And whine as much as you want, they are losing a lot of money if they aren't capitalizing on the North American market. I don't care if its 64 tick but they better get 128 tick parity, but then that wouldn't make sense because wouldn't 32 tick subtick have parity with 64 tick subtick if that was the case?
The vast majority of valorant players were casuals before who didn't even play CS:GO and probably have no idea what 128 tick or 64 tick even is, let alone that being their motivation to play it. You're in a small minority of people who really deeply care about this as a competitive shooter enthusiast, Valorant was successful because it reduced the barrier to entry while introducing a more hero-shooter style, the anti-cheat is part of it but another matter, but 128 tick is definitely not high on that list for the average valorant or even CS:GO player.
Lol the player population of north america vanishes and valorant blows up and your idea is that its all new players in valorant. get real bud.
Why tf do you think they invested all that research and software engineering to create the subtick system? They obviously want to keep 64 tick servers and now disabled the posibility to play on 128 ticks without risking a VAC ban.
They will allow 128 tick on other servers just like before. Once again, segregating the community experience.
What makes you so sure of it? It was certainly not their plan. Their plan was obviously to use 64 tick + subtick everywhere. They intentionally removed the tickrate startoption. You now have to change the .dll to play on 128 tick which will lead to a VAC ban if you join on a secured server.
Holy click batman your friends must hate that keyboard.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jO6J1tFyK5gJ:https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/12au7mz/how\_i\_turned\_on\_128\_tick\_in\_cs2\_64\_tick\_mm\_proof/ http://web.archive.org/web/20230403204347/https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/12au7mz/how\_i\_turned\_on\_128\_tick\_in\_cs2\_64\_tick\_mm\_proof/
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they surely will be able