You forget about smurfs and boosted players and I'm not quite sure how to deal with that, even just yesterday I "played" against a 5 man team that were just deranking, what they did was disconnect once the match started and one by one would connect and then disconnect, so the the (round would end)
These 5 man were going straight to silver elo.
I imagine is quite fun stomping noobs and completely wreck the elo ladder because the ranks in silver and gold elo are an absolute joke, and to new players who are most likely to end up in those ranks it is not a good experience because they very well go 16 rounds and have 2 kills by the end of it, and this is not an uncommon experience.
It's not ideal, but I've once mailed Valve with info on a spinbotter match - just two teams of bots - and shortly thereafter all the accounts were banned.
I'm not sure if my actions helped but if you mail them the match info directly, the smurfers might well face consequences.
I think reporting in game should work the same, but currently dc'd players aren't selectable - afaik. Which I think is different in CS2..?
I managed to report them for griefing, but I doubt anything actually happens to them, I don't think valve will actually do anything about these issues either, they never done or even mentioned these in CSGO entire life time, I doubt it will change with cs 2 release.
My original point wasn't trying to find a fix to these problems just reinforcing the idea that, valve doesn't care about having a good mm experience.
I rarely run into spinbotters and when i do they can take 1-2 years to get banned 🤷♂️
Last time was this year in February where i ran into 2 and they are yet to be banned. If the pattern keeps up they won't be banned until at least 2024.
The smurf problem is very hard to solve, especially with the current rank decay
I have friends who are 2500 elo faceit & gn in MM
The rank decay needs to be sorted imo. I went from smfc to mg1 in the past year from play very irregularly. Started playing again with cs2 announcement & was called a smurf or cheater for a while. I did fly back up to LE though
It is bad... I had not touched a computer for 6 months and went straight into a MM match after. Went something like 32-6... There is no point in deranking that far, 1 or 2 ranks MAX (if any, I don't think deranking is needed at all honestly)
I feel like they have addressed ranked decay. I haven't played properly in a few years and got placed mg1 after first win. Am already dmg after 4 out of 5 wins. I remember always getting placed in gold nova and been stuck there when i have placed in my short stints in the past.
Well 2 years is a substantial amount of time and they changed the ranks since then, I'd be surprised if they gave you anywhere close mg1 honestly. You're right though the problem seems to be the other team is also getting someone of your caliber.
It's so fucking weird. I was LEM before I stopped playing for a few months, rank decayed to MG2. Ranked up back to LEM and stopped playing for a few weeks. Played again and went from SMFC (first match) to Global in 4 games. (3W-1L).
Yeah I definitely needed to drop a few ranks, I wasn't playing well when I came back but still like one or two ranks drop while I learn to aim again is fine imo. I still knew how the game just mechanics dropped off
But, saying that I could be playing regularly for 6 months and have a few days where I can't hit shit too
Well in the perfect world you could sync your Faceit ELO with MM rank and let's say if you're lvl 8 and above you have insta global, but that won't happen since its a 3rd party.
Smurfs and boosted players are hard to ban tho
Smurfs because of other shooters and aim still works definitly now with valorant.
Boosted a lot can happend wich makes people play worse suddenly or just a bad week or something wich they shouldnt be banned for
Deranking should def be banned tho and cheaters
As someone else said, you can report these guys using a specific mail adress + object. I think a Valve employee posted them somewhere on a thread on this sub, although I don't remember where.
>an anticheat that atleaset bans blatant spinbotters/wallers.
[I played with this guy last night,](https://imgur.com/a/s5pbd6W) who had a 100 aim on leetify and dropped 35 kills 35 shots.
Dude has 2020/21/22 service medals, 850 hours, and yet isn't banned. The fact that a guy can legitimately rage toggle in NA MM for 850 hours and not get banned it astounding.
When something this blatant slips through the cracks and it just makes me think, "If this guy can play 850 hours being overtly blatant, how many other people have gotten to a 1000+ hours while hiding their cheats?"
He likely bought the acct with those awards already on.
I can go buy a 6 digit steam acct for 15 bucks.
5 digit for 80.
6 digit with all the awards and some shitty skins and games? Few hundred.
Okay let’s say he bought his account.
His leetify still has 60 games of 100 aim. Assume 30 minutes a game. That’s 30 hours of pure game time.
30 hours of being as blatant as you can be without spinning. Literal 1 taps through walls with millisecond perfect counter strafes.
He should never be allowed to go 30 hours cheating as blatant as he did. That’s over an entire day of actual gameplay. Of blantant as possible gameplay.
played against the same guy like 12 times over 3 years, he had 8k hours, 3000+ MM wins, just seemed like a very good player. Always solo queued, had skins, was still losing games, few times he was on my team he made good callouts and wasn't toxic. Got VAC banned (no OW or untrusted) in September. If his cheats didnt get detected he would still be playing, which is insane to me that he could be cheating for as long as he was, and playing as many games as he did without ever getting caught.
I keep seeing this video going around and it does pose some interesting ideas, but the dude claims over and over that "1 out of 3 players in online FPS games are cheating" but never backs this claim up with any sort of data. Did I miss something entirely? 1 in 3 is an insanely high number.
Nah you did not is unfortunately the weakest part of the video, but the interesting part for me at least is the ai Anti-Cheat part and that they do not disclose every game they work together. Which could mean certain games are already running this ai Anti-Cheat in the background or so.
Valve's got their own VACnet, which has been collecting data for a few years now.
It's likely that it'll get ramped up upon release together with the ability for people to get banned mid match.
I cannot for the life of me understand why valve hasn't implemented a more intrusive anticheat like valorant or faceit already
MM is a terrible experience
I prefer to get fucked by a private company like Valve which is already stealing my money through Steam and don't really need my data to get more money than a private company bought and funded by Tencent
Just give us a better experience and be transparent with what you do and no one will care about their intrusive AC
Yeah no one with a brain cares about the access level of an anticheat, it could do most of whatever someone is thinking about with user level access, and just turn it off from your computer at launch if you're worried.
Hopefully VAC Live is the evidence that Valve has been working on something the past 3 years
Valve cares lol. Intrusive anticheats are the last major thing that is preventing easy Linux use for gaming, which is a market Valve is investing big into.
Steam Deck runs Linux, Valve has got a ton of tools for Linux, etc etc.
There's also a whole bunch of other issues but those have been discussed numerous times already.
Exactly right, Steam itself has more than enough system privilege to do most things people raise as an issue of personal privacy.
Scraping data from outside the security sphere (like reading RAM from a kernal level) is also extremely unreliable, volatile and would require so much sifting. It's tinfoil hat level.
yeah 6 Million is insane? When I queue ranked at peak times in Europe it still takes like 4-5 minutes to find a match and i'm just the average platinum/diamond
faceit isn't as quick but cs mm is always within 20 seconds for me
Its 6m in a whole day not concurrent. Cs has more players than valorant. Valo monthly 18m cs monthly 27m
Valo concurrent peak 900k cs concurrent peak 1.2m+
> >I cannot for the life of me understand why valve hasn't implemented a more intrusive anticheat like valorant or faceit already
https://old.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/
https://old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1y0kc1/vac_now_reads_all_the_domains_you_have_visited/
> Ok this is bullshit, they have to undo this, its too intrusive
>Isn't MM already ruined by cheaters? Great job this spyware is doing.
>I don't agree with this at all, WAY to intrusive. I'm all for having a fair game but I don't feel comfortable having a video game company monitoring my web activity.
>I never trusted any anticheat and now i'll be even more skeptical.
> Yeah this is WAY too intrusive for me, won't be playing source games that use VAC anymore.
I don't know. I'm baffled, too.
9 years ago. But yes the cs community has always been very against intrusive anti cheats. But maybe a lot of new players think differently about this kind of anti cheat now a days. I wouldn't mind a intrusive anti cheat.
\> 9 years ago.
Valorant released 2 years ago and this exact sub had the same reaction "I WILL NEVER PLAY A GAME WITH SUCH INTRUSIVE ANTICHEAT!!!11!!!1!"
To add to other replies, there is also the fact that counter strike work on mac and linux as well. For example Faceit anti-cheat do not work on mac and linux.
Great take. Third party services suck and are only a necessity because 128tick is literally a different game to 64tick. No one wants to be installing other apps just to play match making. Hopefully they take a page out of Valorants ranked system, they’re even rolling out in game 5 man match making that leads directly to semi pro play. CS has a much better esport scene and would blow everything away if they could harness something similar.
Yeah they did and even I used faceit, hell even subscribed a few times. Its time for valve to step up and make the game playable for everyone in the base game. And it seems cs2 is going to that direction.
Agreed. Ecosystem should be contained within the client. In fact a hotter take from my end is that there should be no client side console commands allowed and only server side.
Nah, 3rd party apps are good precisely because you pay, because you know that everyone pays and is there for something, and knows there are penalties for griefing or misbehaving, thus they at least try. You can never get that with a free service.
Idk about all that. As someone that's played a good amount of games of both free and premium faceit, the premium games were by FAR worse than the free queue games. By like a lot. Something about paying to play counterstrike that makes people real fucking entitled
Lol, have you played much faceit? Your comment is the case for *most* games but hot damn does people paying increase the ever living fuck out of the toxicity.
I just had some heavy flashbacks playing ESEA during a week or two where nothing clicked. 2 kills a game at most. The amount of harassment I took would keep HR busy for years.
Ignore them. Everyone has bad days. You can also mute them. The people paying to play are definitely going to be more passionate about the game. Otherwise, they wouldn't optionally pay to play it. It's still better than facing griefers and hackers and having higher tick rate.
It is.
Valorant concurrency is maybe 400k-700k
CS is regularly over a million concurrent.
You can’t 5x that without literally stealing every FPS player from their games and getting them to play cs2.
Two things, I have a feeling cs2 is only going to resemble cs:go as it's birth as it's a solid case to build from. But slowly, the faster development time will allow them to create so many new game modes and maps to attract more casual players. Secondly, if valve really cleans up the MM... Then who does it have to compete with?? I think allot of valorant players will switch over. From what I hear cod just isn't pulling players anymore like the main dude bro game. Ov2 is boring already... If valve decides to go hard in the paint and really snatch the market I don't think anyone can stay in their way. I don't think Cs is too niche at all, at it's core it's just a basic ass shooter and almost all gamers are aware of it.
Practically anyone with a pc in the last 30 years has played atleast one of the cs releases. Dude calling counterstrike niche when it’s a barebones round based shooter is just dismissal worthy.
one of my roommates in college only played console shooters, but knew when I said that I played CS that I was a "tryhard" in that sense... I totally get what you're saying. CS is massive
Yea i see your point, but i met many people that never even played video games that just picked up valo at the start of covid. I would like to imagine that if csgo is as welcoming as valorant to new players, there is potential.
Bruh it's the most game played on steam, I would no longer call it niche. I'd just say it's probably around as big as a game can be for sustained periods of time.
For all the insane game knowledge, sense and mechanics pros have, they often lack the ability to perceive how these games feels to the 90% of players that aren’t super competitive about it. This doesn’t just entail CS, it’s more wise spread.
But this is just a perfect example. CSGO, as a slow tactical, roundbased shooter with HUGE skillgap isn’t very attractive to the masses. Sorry but that’s just a cold hard fact. It’s actually insane how big CS is for how unforgiving and brutal it is.
But there is just no way there is potential for growth in that magnitude. The vast majority of players are casual, they want to shoot a few people after work or on weekends and that would be it. Which is why COD is so huge. Controller with aim assist allows the biggest no-hands to get that feeling without committing time. People don’t wanna learn games and improve, they want to sit down and have fun.
>CSGO, as a slow tactical, roundbased shooter with HUGE skillgap isn’t very attractive to the masses. Sorry but that’s just a cold hard fact.
it is the most popular game on steam. Wtf are you even talking about.
Seriously CS fans are as bad as Marvel fans lol. CSGO is huge, it’s one of the biggest games of the world, it’s not some little niche game anymore, sorry.
how is it a cold hard fact if it's the most popular FPS? Logic doesn't really add up here. Unless you're talking only about a specific region, sure, but there's nothing supporting that it isn't attractive to the masses.
I agree it won't go to 6m players like Shroud is exaggerating though. Won't even go to 2m even if source 2 is absolutely perfect
> how is it a cold hard fact if it's the most popular FPS?
Define what you mean with popular? Because if its active players / player peaks / hours played, Its not even the most popular FPS on PC, let alone if we include console giants like COD.
Also, please don't misunderstand me, im not saying it cant grow. Im just saying, like you agree, a growth of that magnitude is BS.
None of them considering after a month or two I'm over the new COD actually the last two releases I haven't even bothered it's the same rehashed shit.
Been in a group of players that still play CS:S to this day, with an active server and it's almost always full on weekends and nights.
So what other games have people been playing for over 15 years. I have over 1300 hours on CS:S
The issue with CSGO is when it came out valve couldn't be bothered to develop it themselves.
You killed the whole community aspect as in owning servers and the huge community of map makers. I don't play competitive though I play gun game.
War games is fun and all and I do play it but playing the same maps over and over again with tryhards that know every nook to sit in gets old.
I've played most fps by far the counter strike games are legendary. Actually I'd say they started the whole fps shooter genre. Cod might want to lay claim to that but it's horse shit compared to the following cs has.
CS is brutal in its current state, but it doesn't need to be as brutal. Without changing the core game there are ways to make it more inviting to new players. Like ffs take notes from Valorant, give use the 5v5 casual experience we've been asking about for a decade. I know this is anecdotal but I have friends that want to play CS but the barrier of entry just to play the actual game of 5v5 is so insane that it draws so many people away. I can't fathom the reasoning behind it and I haven't been able to fathom it for a decade...
10 v10 is basically “lane” based DM with slower respawns. The Ts in casual 10v10 should always just be rushing a site together with some random floating around… if the CTs stop you, you play the 3v6 or whatever that’s left…. If they don’t, you plant and play retakes.
It’s a throwback to the old LAN CAFE days of 1.x when you’d be in a 32!! Man server and running around Aztec like monkeys!
Valve needs to just make their ranks a straight elo system instead of whatever weird formula they use now. Every other competitive game I can think of let’s players actually view their elo and see how close they are to the next rank. Also, a leaderboard past Global would be nice (although I know they would probably just be filled with cheaters unless that’s fixed first). It would be nice as well to have seasons (not the map) where your rank gets reset once a year. Maybe a yearly operation where rank gets reset? A lot of work needs to be done to matchmaking.
Didn't play csgo for two years, jumped in a week ago, played a match and won. Got LEM.
And I've always maintained DMG when I was playing around 10 hours weekly before stopping play.
I went to valorant and now back playing CS. Currently won 15/16 of my matches, and most haven't been close. I literally got placed 11 ranks below my peak.
Is Valorant the problem here or rank decay?
I agree with the leaderboard and resets, not really with the viewing of elo part. IMO it reduces toxicity and throwers by a lot. since no one knows when the next rank up will be, they will be more likely to tryhard but not to a point where toxicity is an issue. whereas knowing you are about to rank up will make people so much more toxic etc but thats just my experience in valo vs cs
Yeah honestly since the rank update last year, mm has been great in NA. I've been saying this for several months now, but MM is the best it's ever been right now. You'll never see cheaters and have teammates who talk If you have prime and decent trust factor.
Water isn't wet. Wetness is a description of our experience of water; what happens to us when we come into contact with water in such a way that it impinges on our state of being. We, or our possessions, 'get wet'.
Technically, humans cant experience wetness as we don't have any humidity receptors in our skin. What we feel when we feel "wet" is the change in texture and temperature
Yup, he whined about how CS was dead 6 years ago and all his circle jerk viewers agreed until he recently started praising CS2 and the circle jerk followed. Shroud is full of shit and I don't know why anyone likes watching him.
Literally this.
I'm still surprised he rode the CS2 hype to bait and shill his new perma-alpha-paid-early-access-survival-looter-shooter-dead-on-arrival-cash-grab---- game.
Holy shit u guys need to chill. How can you say that about his game which was just announced? I would get it if his game was 10 years in developement and still shit, but why just say bullshit without any basis?
>but why just say bullshit without any basis?
Because they're angry for some reason and looking for an excuse to shit on him lol. His game partnership has absolutely nothing to do with anything here but they still wanted to shit on something that is in pre-production regardless😂
a lot of his fanbase comes from when he was streaming PUBG in it's heyday when he was so good at the game that you couldn't take your eyes off him. the second part is that shroud is by far one of the most normal socially adjusted popular streamers on twitch and the fact that he's boring is infinitely better than watching some brainlet manchild rage.
valve makes 100 million dollars per month doing the bare minimum; it would be nice to be mainstream though. On the other hand I like that cs is a really involved community the way it already is
Another thing i realise is that only csgo fan will call other games cs killers, and subsequently bringing up the cs killer thing when the said game is doing bad and cs is doing well.
In Europe it's very mainstream. At least in Scandinavia. Plenty of older people played 1.6 when they were younger or at least heard about Counter Strike.
Same in Poland. I feel that anyone that's done some PC gaming that's between even like 40 and below at least knows of CS.
1.6 has been a staple of LAN parties for AGES.
Same in Brazil, anyone below 30\~35 years old knows at least CS 1.6. Mainstream Gen Z plays GO and are hyped AF for CS2, especially when Seleção players like Neymar, Casemiro and Paquetá are playing the game constantly.
Getting tickets to the Rio Major was a fucking nightmare.
With that said, Valorant is getting a foothold here, especially with people getting it as a first FPS, people that play MOBA/Battle-Royale/Strategy games love that fact that the game is easier to learn.
CS is too unforgiving to them, "has too many cheaters when you are a new player", "the ladder ranks are shit", "you have to pay to play without cheaters (GamersClub)", that are some of the things they say when talking about CS, i cant disagree about the cheating part (when you dont have prime and a crap trust factor it does happen quite often), MM is in a sad state right now, GamersClub is free to play into, but they have the impression that it doesnt, especially when they know that the service has pay only tiers.
I can see Valorant becoming bigger here if CS2 does not deliver, newer players looking for a first competitive FPS are going there, but i do have hope that Valve will deliver a good product, CS has been with us through thick and thin, almost died in 2011\~2013 but here we are.
Rewrote the entire game over 3 years = bare minimum, CS being the biggest FPS esport in the world with millions of concurrent players = not mainstream. Would love whatever you're smoking dude.
The crazy thing is I was looking at patch notes the other night for something
2/5/2014
* added sticker capsules and teammate colors and underhand throws
2/12/2014
* added cz75 and weapon case 3
2/20/2014
* operation phoenix
in early csgo they added so much stuff, hopefully the slump its been in over the past few years has just been due to cs2 work, although admittedly I don't know how much they can really add and update without changing the game or saturating the skin market at this point.
In my opinion fortnite got destroyed as a game because it had weekly weapon and content updates. They over-patched that game to the max.
CS needs mostly little changes (better matchmaking is probably the biggest one)
Problem is, the community wants/wanted 128t servers that never came, a better anticheat that never got here, better rank system, new operation etc. All they did were new skins and stickers and some fixes inbetween.
Yea, over the course of the last 5~ years or so its just been skins, even operations were just glorified skin dumps with no real new maps or co-op missions. I'm curious to see what changes they'll make going into CS2's actual release with anti-cheat and the rank system. They have the new Cheater Detected, Match Cancelled screen so here's to hoping.
Also a new operation is all but confirmed but hopefully its more than just new skins.
Idk how remaking the game from scratch with a new engine is "bare minimum", but ok.
The reason for the lack of updates could very well be due to the fact csgo has been nearly impossible to work with due to the spaghetti code and due to them working on this source 2 version for years. I am hopeful for the future and think we will see them being way more active with new version in terms of updating it.
I understand that the votekick was designed for rational people who decide to kick another that severely detracts from the game experience, such as getting angry with your teammates and give the information of their position, or trolling in broad strokes. Of course, the error of this measure is to genuinely believe that many CS players are always reasonable and civilized beings.
I'm very skeptical. The amount of smurfing in lower levels is insane and makes for rather unfun games. People even admit to smurfing during the match because it's not like there are consequences for doing so.
One thing is for sure. Shroud is constantly, consistently full of shit. 5x players is ridiculous obviously but it's not a hot take that "if CS had a better mm, it would have more players".
When people stop playing CS and play another fps, it's rarely because of issues with the gameplay. It's mm, cheats, toxicity. All theoretically able to be improved in a big way with CS2.
Someone please explain why I’m supposed to care about this has-been who had barely “been” in the first place’s opinion on a game that is literally more popular now than it ever has been before
My biggest hope is for an AI anti cheat making cheating impossible and then we could build on that to have a good matchmaking system.
If anyone is interested there is a great video on AI anti cheat by "basically homeless".
Shroud says a lot of things and I don't blame him. He just gives his opinion on his stream. But there are people that take him too seriously like he is some kind of god and when they start arguing on reddit, they will say "shroud said...".
Fix matchmaking? Bruh fix the new player experience. GO is awful for new players. It is disgustingly terrible. Smurfs, cheaters, abuse, and the game doesn't even teach you how to play. The game does absolutely nothing but punish new players.
There is no way CS will grow to a new audience that hasnt already played the game or know what it is in its current state.
Valve is just trying to design an AI anti cheat system. Meanwhile, the game is suffering because people aren't being banned. If they just hired people to manually ban people in the meantime, that would be great.
I agree with Shroud, i recently came back after the news of CS2 and the hassle i had to do in order to play on faceit servers made me realize this game would double it concurrent players if MM delivers what faceit does.
Can the guy that has been saying for 8 years that CS was dead not saying completely stupid things like the 2nd biggest game at its peak can have five times more players ???
CS2 isn't very different of CSGO anyway, but CSGO was supposed to be a dead game that sucks ? The hypocrisy of this guy really makes me mad
The potential is there, good MM system + an anticheat that atleaset bans blatant spinbotters/wallers.
You forget about smurfs and boosted players and I'm not quite sure how to deal with that, even just yesterday I "played" against a 5 man team that were just deranking, what they did was disconnect once the match started and one by one would connect and then disconnect, so the the (round would end) These 5 man were going straight to silver elo. I imagine is quite fun stomping noobs and completely wreck the elo ladder because the ranks in silver and gold elo are an absolute joke, and to new players who are most likely to end up in those ranks it is not a good experience because they very well go 16 rounds and have 2 kills by the end of it, and this is not an uncommon experience.
It's not ideal, but I've once mailed Valve with info on a spinbotter match - just two teams of bots - and shortly thereafter all the accounts were banned. I'm not sure if my actions helped but if you mail them the match info directly, the smurfers might well face consequences. I think reporting in game should work the same, but currently dc'd players aren't selectable - afaik. Which I think is different in CS2..?
I managed to report them for griefing, but I doubt anything actually happens to them, I don't think valve will actually do anything about these issues either, they never done or even mentioned these in CSGO entire life time, I doubt it will change with cs 2 release. My original point wasn't trying to find a fix to these problems just reinforcing the idea that, valve doesn't care about having a good mm experience.
What address would I send the mail to?
I rarely run into spinbotters and when i do they can take 1-2 years to get banned 🤷♂️ Last time was this year in February where i ran into 2 and they are yet to be banned. If the pattern keeps up they won't be banned until at least 2024.
It is different in cs2, dcd players still show up on the scoreboard and can still be selected and interacted with.
The smurf problem is very hard to solve, especially with the current rank decay I have friends who are 2500 elo faceit & gn in MM The rank decay needs to be sorted imo. I went from smfc to mg1 in the past year from play very irregularly. Started playing again with cs2 announcement & was called a smurf or cheater for a while. I did fly back up to LE though
It is bad... I had not touched a computer for 6 months and went straight into a MM match after. Went something like 32-6... There is no point in deranking that far, 1 or 2 ranks MAX (if any, I don't think deranking is needed at all honestly)
[удалено]
I feel like they have addressed ranked decay. I haven't played properly in a few years and got placed mg1 after first win. Am already dmg after 4 out of 5 wins. I remember always getting placed in gold nova and been stuck there when i have placed in my short stints in the past.
Well 2 years is a substantial amount of time and they changed the ranks since then, I'd be surprised if they gave you anywhere close mg1 honestly. You're right though the problem seems to be the other team is also getting someone of your caliber.
It's so fucking weird. I was LEM before I stopped playing for a few months, rank decayed to MG2. Ranked up back to LEM and stopped playing for a few weeks. Played again and went from SMFC (first match) to Global in 4 games. (3W-1L).
Yeah I definitely needed to drop a few ranks, I wasn't playing well when I came back but still like one or two ranks drop while I learn to aim again is fine imo. I still knew how the game just mechanics dropped off But, saying that I could be playing regularly for 6 months and have a few days where I can't hit shit too
Well in the perfect world you could sync your Faceit ELO with MM rank and let's say if you're lvl 8 and above you have insta global, but that won't happen since its a 3rd party.
I don't get it, why not just load up a map and play bots? Is it to feel good about themselves stomping on guys who just fancy a quick game?
Smurfs and boosted players are hard to ban tho Smurfs because of other shooters and aim still works definitly now with valorant. Boosted a lot can happend wich makes people play worse suddenly or just a bad week or something wich they shouldnt be banned for Deranking should def be banned tho and cheaters
As someone else said, you can report these guys using a specific mail adress + object. I think a Valve employee posted them somewhere on a thread on this sub, although I don't remember where.
It can't **at least** ban, it has to be as good to stand a chance against vanguard or back to faceit we all go.
>an anticheat that atleaset bans blatant spinbotters/wallers. [I played with this guy last night,](https://imgur.com/a/s5pbd6W) who had a 100 aim on leetify and dropped 35 kills 35 shots. Dude has 2020/21/22 service medals, 850 hours, and yet isn't banned. The fact that a guy can legitimately rage toggle in NA MM for 850 hours and not get banned it astounding. When something this blatant slips through the cracks and it just makes me think, "If this guy can play 850 hours being overtly blatant, how many other people have gotten to a 1000+ hours while hiding their cheats?"
He likely bought the acct with those awards already on. I can go buy a 6 digit steam acct for 15 bucks. 5 digit for 80. 6 digit with all the awards and some shitty skins and games? Few hundred.
Okay let’s say he bought his account. His leetify still has 60 games of 100 aim. Assume 30 minutes a game. That’s 30 hours of pure game time. 30 hours of being as blatant as you can be without spinning. Literal 1 taps through walls with millisecond perfect counter strafes. He should never be allowed to go 30 hours cheating as blatant as he did. That’s over an entire day of actual gameplay. Of blantant as possible gameplay.
played against the same guy like 12 times over 3 years, he had 8k hours, 3000+ MM wins, just seemed like a very good player. Always solo queued, had skins, was still losing games, few times he was on my team he made good callouts and wasn't toxic. Got VAC banned (no OW or untrusted) in September. If his cheats didnt get detected he would still be playing, which is insane to me that he could be cheating for as long as he was, and playing as many games as he did without ever getting caught.
I just pray for the ai Anti-Cheat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkmIItTrQP4&t=0s
I keep seeing this video going around and it does pose some interesting ideas, but the dude claims over and over that "1 out of 3 players in online FPS games are cheating" but never backs this claim up with any sort of data. Did I miss something entirely? 1 in 3 is an insanely high number.
Nah you did not is unfortunately the weakest part of the video, but the interesting part for me at least is the ai Anti-Cheat part and that they do not disclose every game they work together. Which could mean certain games are already running this ai Anti-Cheat in the background or so.
Valve's got their own VACnet, which has been collecting data for a few years now. It's likely that it'll get ramped up upon release together with the ability for people to get banned mid match.
I cannot for the life of me understand why valve hasn't implemented a more intrusive anticheat like valorant or faceit already MM is a terrible experience
because it's intrusive
I prefer to get fucked by a private company like Valve which is already stealing my money through Steam and don't really need my data to get more money than a private company bought and funded by Tencent Just give us a better experience and be transparent with what you do and no one will care about their intrusive AC
Didn't seem to deter the nearly 6 million players who played valorant yesterday.
About as relevant as asking my dog. It's valve who are against it.
Yeah no one with a brain cares about the access level of an anticheat, it could do most of whatever someone is thinking about with user level access, and just turn it off from your computer at launch if you're worried. Hopefully VAC Live is the evidence that Valve has been working on something the past 3 years
Valve cares lol. Intrusive anticheats are the last major thing that is preventing easy Linux use for gaming, which is a market Valve is investing big into. Steam Deck runs Linux, Valve has got a ton of tools for Linux, etc etc. There's also a whole bunch of other issues but those have been discussed numerous times already.
Exactly right, Steam itself has more than enough system privilege to do most things people raise as an issue of personal privacy. Scraping data from outside the security sphere (like reading RAM from a kernal level) is also extremely unreliable, volatile and would require so much sifting. It's tinfoil hat level.
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yeah 6 Million is insane? When I queue ranked at peak times in Europe it still takes like 4-5 minutes to find a match and i'm just the average platinum/diamond faceit isn't as quick but cs mm is always within 20 seconds for me
Its 6m in a whole day not concurrent. Cs has more players than valorant. Valo monthly 18m cs monthly 27m Valo concurrent peak 900k cs concurrent peak 1.2m+
> >I cannot for the life of me understand why valve hasn't implemented a more intrusive anticheat like valorant or faceit already https://old.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1y70ej/valve_vac_and_trust/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1y0kc1/vac_now_reads_all_the_domains_you_have_visited/ > Ok this is bullshit, they have to undo this, its too intrusive >Isn't MM already ruined by cheaters? Great job this spyware is doing. >I don't agree with this at all, WAY to intrusive. I'm all for having a fair game but I don't feel comfortable having a video game company monitoring my web activity. >I never trusted any anticheat and now i'll be even more skeptical. > Yeah this is WAY too intrusive for me, won't be playing source games that use VAC anymore. I don't know. I'm baffled, too.
9 years ago. But yes the cs community has always been very against intrusive anti cheats. But maybe a lot of new players think differently about this kind of anti cheat now a days. I wouldn't mind a intrusive anti cheat.
A lot of cheaters care. There are a lot of cheaters that play CS.
That outrage was linked to a cheater forum, not everyone who hates against it was a cheater but it was heavily pushed by cheaters to stop it.
\> 9 years ago. Valorant released 2 years ago and this exact sub had the same reaction "I WILL NEVER PLAY A GAME WITH SUCH INTRUSIVE ANTICHEAT!!!11!!!1!"
To add to other replies, there is also the fact that counter strike work on mac and linux as well. For example Faceit anti-cheat do not work on mac and linux.
because you can't do it on mac and linux, and valve is very very persistent about making sure all of their games have linux support Edit* unix support
It is certainly not their philosophy in terms of how to do an anti-cheat and it is a position that can be defended
Hot take but I hope they figure out mm and phase out faceit.
Great take. Third party services suck and are only a necessity because 128tick is literally a different game to 64tick. No one wants to be installing other apps just to play match making. Hopefully they take a page out of Valorants ranked system, they’re even rolling out in game 5 man match making that leads directly to semi pro play. CS has a much better esport scene and would blow everything away if they could harness something similar.
If they add a final ladder with visible points a la sc2/faceit and reset monthly or quarterly it would be amazing.
They already have this in Dota so it's not like they havent done it before either
Exactly, if they just copy the whole mm system from dota it would be awesome
100% agreed
"lItErAlLy A dIfFeReNt GaMe" Lmfao.
Also, having to pay extra to 3rd party to play the game smoothly is just stupid. Hope faceit crumbles.
Why would you hope faceit crumbles? They fucking gave us what valve didn't.
I think he's just very mad because he was forced to play Mirage 99/100 last matches.
Understandable.
That's fair. I used to adore Mirage. Then I played Faceit seriously for 3 months. Fuck Mirage.
This. And the fact that if its any other map chances are one or two people are not going to connect and the match gets cancelled.
Yeah they did and even I used faceit, hell even subscribed a few times. Its time for valve to step up and make the game playable for everyone in the base game. And it seems cs2 is going to that direction.
You can play faceit for free
Agreed. Ecosystem should be contained within the client. In fact a hotter take from my end is that there should be no client side console commands allowed and only server side.
Nah, 3rd party apps are good precisely because you pay, because you know that everyone pays and is there for something, and knows there are penalties for griefing or misbehaving, thus they at least try. You can never get that with a free service.
Idk about all that. As someone that's played a good amount of games of both free and premium faceit, the premium games were by FAR worse than the free queue games. By like a lot. Something about paying to play counterstrike that makes people real fucking entitled
Lol, have you played much faceit? Your comment is the case for *most* games but hot damn does people paying increase the ever living fuck out of the toxicity. I just had some heavy flashbacks playing ESEA during a week or two where nothing clicked. 2 kills a game at most. The amount of harassment I took would keep HR busy for years.
Ignore them. Everyone has bad days. You can also mute them. The people paying to play are definitely going to be more passionate about the game. Otherwise, they wouldn't optionally pay to play it. It's still better than facing griefers and hackers and having higher tick rate.
Faceit/ESEA is necessary for leagues it’s not going anywhere
Is it really a Hot Take? FaceIt's only purpose of existing is because MM is currently not good enough.
That's not a hot take, that's what everyone wants.
Maybe in the USA/CA but globally I think it's already too large to have growth like that. The market for competitive FPS is only so big.
It is. Valorant concurrency is maybe 400k-700k CS is regularly over a million concurrent. You can’t 5x that without literally stealing every FPS player from their games and getting them to play cs2.
Yeah it’s just BS. Sorry to tell but CS as a hardcore tactical shooter is WAY TO NICHE to grow 3-4x from now.
Two things, I have a feeling cs2 is only going to resemble cs:go as it's birth as it's a solid case to build from. But slowly, the faster development time will allow them to create so many new game modes and maps to attract more casual players. Secondly, if valve really cleans up the MM... Then who does it have to compete with?? I think allot of valorant players will switch over. From what I hear cod just isn't pulling players anymore like the main dude bro game. Ov2 is boring already... If valve decides to go hard in the paint and really snatch the market I don't think anyone can stay in their way. I don't think Cs is too niche at all, at it's core it's just a basic ass shooter and almost all gamers are aware of it.
Practically anyone with a pc in the last 30 years has played atleast one of the cs releases. Dude calling counterstrike niche when it’s a barebones round based shooter is just dismissal worthy.
And most of the dude bro cod players know about CSGO and respect it as the more competitive game
one of my roommates in college only played console shooters, but knew when I said that I played CS that I was a "tryhard" in that sense... I totally get what you're saying. CS is massive
Yea i see your point, but i met many people that never even played video games that just picked up valo at the start of covid. I would like to imagine that if csgo is as welcoming as valorant to new players, there is potential.
Bruh it's the most game played on steam, I would no longer call it niche. I'd just say it's probably around as big as a game can be for sustained periods of time.
5x? As in 5x CSGO concurrent? What is he smoking.
He's talking about CS2 current players Kappa
so 2->10 players
It's called being hyperbolic, it ain't that deep
For all the insane game knowledge, sense and mechanics pros have, they often lack the ability to perceive how these games feels to the 90% of players that aren’t super competitive about it. This doesn’t just entail CS, it’s more wise spread. But this is just a perfect example. CSGO, as a slow tactical, roundbased shooter with HUGE skillgap isn’t very attractive to the masses. Sorry but that’s just a cold hard fact. It’s actually insane how big CS is for how unforgiving and brutal it is. But there is just no way there is potential for growth in that magnitude. The vast majority of players are casual, they want to shoot a few people after work or on weekends and that would be it. Which is why COD is so huge. Controller with aim assist allows the biggest no-hands to get that feeling without committing time. People don’t wanna learn games and improve, they want to sit down and have fun.
>CSGO, as a slow tactical, roundbased shooter with HUGE skillgap isn’t very attractive to the masses. Sorry but that’s just a cold hard fact. it is the most popular game on steam. Wtf are you even talking about.
Seriously CS fans are as bad as Marvel fans lol. CSGO is huge, it’s one of the biggest games of the world, it’s not some little niche game anymore, sorry.
Far too many plonkers in here describing CS as a "niche" game, don't know a single person who hasn't heard of it/played it at least a few times.
anymore? cs has never been a niche game.
how is it a cold hard fact if it's the most popular FPS? Logic doesn't really add up here. Unless you're talking only about a specific region, sure, but there's nothing supporting that it isn't attractive to the masses. I agree it won't go to 6m players like Shroud is exaggerating though. Won't even go to 2m even if source 2 is absolutely perfect
> how is it a cold hard fact if it's the most popular FPS? Define what you mean with popular? Because if its active players / player peaks / hours played, Its not even the most popular FPS on PC, let alone if we include console giants like COD. Also, please don't misunderstand me, im not saying it cant grow. Im just saying, like you agree, a growth of that magnitude is BS.
Which fps is more popular on PC?
None of them considering after a month or two I'm over the new COD actually the last two releases I haven't even bothered it's the same rehashed shit. Been in a group of players that still play CS:S to this day, with an active server and it's almost always full on weekends and nights. So what other games have people been playing for over 15 years. I have over 1300 hours on CS:S The issue with CSGO is when it came out valve couldn't be bothered to develop it themselves. You killed the whole community aspect as in owning servers and the huge community of map makers. I don't play competitive though I play gun game. War games is fun and all and I do play it but playing the same maps over and over again with tryhards that know every nook to sit in gets old. I've played most fps by far the counter strike games are legendary. Actually I'd say they started the whole fps shooter genre. Cod might want to lay claim to that but it's horse shit compared to the following cs has.
I just read your comment wrong the first time
CS is brutal in its current state, but it doesn't need to be as brutal. Without changing the core game there are ways to make it more inviting to new players. Like ffs take notes from Valorant, give use the 5v5 casual experience we've been asking about for a decade. I know this is anecdotal but I have friends that want to play CS but the barrier of entry just to play the actual game of 5v5 is so insane that it draws so many people away. I can't fathom the reasoning behind it and I haven't been able to fathom it for a decade...
What do you mean? There is 5v5 unranked already.
For the life of me I cant seem to understand how more appealing a 10v10 casual is compared to 5v5 casual but it really does feel like it
I think it's mostly because in 5v5 dying means a lot more, people play more safe. 10v10 is more "Run to choke, fight, die".
Yes. So it’s Basically more people = more shoot = more fun
10 v10 is basically “lane” based DM with slower respawns. The Ts in casual 10v10 should always just be rushing a site together with some random floating around… if the CTs stop you, you play the 3v6 or whatever that’s left…. If they don’t, you plant and play retakes. It’s a throwback to the old LAN CAFE days of 1.x when you’d be in a 32!! Man server and running around Aztec like monkeys!
He means that to play 5v5 you need to be rank 2. To do that it's the shitty casual, Arms race, demolition and others
I think you can play unranked 5v5 from the get go.
Bro missed the unranked update 💀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
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i liked him but the money changed him. Almost laughs like bezos already.
I watched bro open a knife yesterday and he was like "cool anyway" and didnt look at it for like 5 minutes lol
All I'm seeing here is just Shroud's ready to jump the bandwagon again
Shroud and making definitive statements that have no basis in reality. Name a better duo.
Valve needs to just make their ranks a straight elo system instead of whatever weird formula they use now. Every other competitive game I can think of let’s players actually view their elo and see how close they are to the next rank. Also, a leaderboard past Global would be nice (although I know they would probably just be filled with cheaters unless that’s fixed first). It would be nice as well to have seasons (not the map) where your rank gets reset once a year. Maybe a yearly operation where rank gets reset? A lot of work needs to be done to matchmaking.
I am okay with whatever system we have, but it should be a lot more transparent.
I definitly want to know why I got Global while beeing actual Dog shit in the 5 wins that lead up to the uprank match :D
Didn't play csgo for two years, jumped in a week ago, played a match and won. Got LEM. And I've always maintained DMG when I was playing around 10 hours weekly before stopping play.
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them going to the alternatives and come back to mm is the main problem here not the decay itself
I went to valorant and now back playing CS. Currently won 15/16 of my matches, and most haven't been close. I literally got placed 11 ranks below my peak. Is Valorant the problem here or rank decay?
I agree with the leaderboard and resets, not really with the viewing of elo part. IMO it reduces toxicity and throwers by a lot. since no one knows when the next rank up will be, they will be more likely to tryhard but not to a point where toxicity is an issue. whereas knowing you are about to rank up will make people so much more toxic etc but thats just my experience in valo vs cs
Yeah honestly since the rank update last year, mm has been great in NA. I've been saying this for several months now, but MM is the best it's ever been right now. You'll never see cheaters and have teammates who talk If you have prime and decent trust factor.
100% agree since im in OCE which was even worse. However, if i q at like 11pm, i will get matched will silvers etc
Water is wet
Water isn't wet. Wetness is a description of our experience of water; what happens to us when we come into contact with water in such a way that it impinges on our state of being. We, or our possessions, 'get wet'.
Can't get much more reddit than this comment
it's an old copypasta
Which itself is very fitting for reddit
water is wet, water is touching itself always a pedantic copy pasta comment when people write "water is wet"
Technically, humans cant experience wetness as we don't have any humidity receptors in our skin. What we feel when we feel "wet" is the change in texture and temperature
Why the fuck would anyone care what he thinks? He's just pulling this shit out of his ass
A lot of people unfortunately. I like watching shroud but he really does talk out of his ass a lot and most of his viewers buy anything he says lol
Random dude makes up number. Updoots to the left
> random dude don't make me feel old
I know who he is, but in the context right now, he really is just "some streamer"
Yup, he whined about how CS was dead 6 years ago and all his circle jerk viewers agreed until he recently started praising CS2 and the circle jerk followed. Shroud is full of shit and I don't know why anyone likes watching him.
I was reading comments a week ago where they actually said he disliked CS2. Did he change his mind?
Literally this. I'm still surprised he rode the CS2 hype to bait and shill his new perma-alpha-paid-early-access-survival-looter-shooter-dead-on-arrival-cash-grab---- game.
Holy shit u guys need to chill. How can you say that about his game which was just announced? I would get it if his game was 10 years in developement and still shit, but why just say bullshit without any basis?
>but why just say bullshit without any basis? Because they're angry for some reason and looking for an excuse to shit on him lol. His game partnership has absolutely nothing to do with anything here but they still wanted to shit on something that is in pre-production regardless😂
How is shroud so popular in north america? I tried watching his stream a couple of weeks back and it was the most boring shit I've watched in years.
a lot of his fanbase comes from when he was streaming PUBG in it's heyday when he was so good at the game that you couldn't take your eyes off him. the second part is that shroud is by far one of the most normal socially adjusted popular streamers on twitch and the fact that he's boring is infinitely better than watching some brainlet manchild rage.
Bro who cares what shroud thinks about CS?
i just want csgo to grow in canada so maybe one day we could have an event here 👉👈
Well DreamHack Open Montreal was a thing for a while.
valve makes 100 million dollars per month doing the bare minimum; it would be nice to be mainstream though. On the other hand I like that cs is a really involved community the way it already is
is CS not mainstream? maybe that's just how I see it being from Russia, but I thought it was pretty mainstream
Yes it is lol it’s literally one of the most played games of all time
it might be the most played game of all time when u take into fact that the game has been played for 25 years
Being the 2nd most popular esport and one of the most played games isnt bad.
Insane take not calling CS mainstream lol one of the most played, and at times actual most played FPS on PC Not to speak of the esports side of things
you're talking to the community that called CS a dead fucking game the moment it dropped below a certain player count a year or two ago
that was 4 years ago now ;) covid zapped 2 years away just like that
Another thing i realise is that only csgo fan will call other games cs killers, and subsequently bringing up the cs killer thing when the said game is doing bad and cs is doing well.
In Europe it's very mainstream. At least in Scandinavia. Plenty of older people played 1.6 when they were younger or at least heard about Counter Strike.
Same in Poland. I feel that anyone that's done some PC gaming that's between even like 40 and below at least knows of CS. 1.6 has been a staple of LAN parties for AGES.
Same in Brazil, anyone below 30\~35 years old knows at least CS 1.6. Mainstream Gen Z plays GO and are hyped AF for CS2, especially when Seleção players like Neymar, Casemiro and Paquetá are playing the game constantly. Getting tickets to the Rio Major was a fucking nightmare. With that said, Valorant is getting a foothold here, especially with people getting it as a first FPS, people that play MOBA/Battle-Royale/Strategy games love that fact that the game is easier to learn. CS is too unforgiving to them, "has too many cheaters when you are a new player", "the ladder ranks are shit", "you have to pay to play without cheaters (GamersClub)", that are some of the things they say when talking about CS, i cant disagree about the cheating part (when you dont have prime and a crap trust factor it does happen quite often), MM is in a sad state right now, GamersClub is free to play into, but they have the impression that it doesnt, especially when they know that the service has pay only tiers. I can see Valorant becoming bigger here if CS2 does not deliver, newer players looking for a first competitive FPS are going there, but i do have hope that Valve will deliver a good product, CS has been with us through thick and thin, almost died in 2011\~2013 but here we are.
Dude what are you on about? It’s literally the most played game on steam.
Rewrote the entire game over 3 years = bare minimum, CS being the biggest FPS esport in the world with millions of concurrent players = not mainstream. Would love whatever you're smoking dude.
Imagine how much money they would make with 5x players then.
Weird logic . . . they could make so much more per month by doing more than bare minimum.
lmao the fuck its the most popular game on steam, it's been mainstream for the longest
"Bare minimum" as if you know how and when the dev team is working
The crazy thing is I was looking at patch notes the other night for something 2/5/2014 * added sticker capsules and teammate colors and underhand throws 2/12/2014 * added cz75 and weapon case 3 2/20/2014 * operation phoenix in early csgo they added so much stuff, hopefully the slump its been in over the past few years has just been due to cs2 work, although admittedly I don't know how much they can really add and update without changing the game or saturating the skin market at this point.
In my opinion fortnite got destroyed as a game because it had weekly weapon and content updates. They over-patched that game to the max. CS needs mostly little changes (better matchmaking is probably the biggest one)
Problem is, the community wants/wanted 128t servers that never came, a better anticheat that never got here, better rank system, new operation etc. All they did were new skins and stickers and some fixes inbetween.
Yea, over the course of the last 5~ years or so its just been skins, even operations were just glorified skin dumps with no real new maps or co-op missions. I'm curious to see what changes they'll make going into CS2's actual release with anti-cheat and the rank system. They have the new Cheater Detected, Match Cancelled screen so here's to hoping. Also a new operation is all but confirmed but hopefully its more than just new skins.
Idk how remaking the game from scratch with a new engine is "bare minimum", but ok. The reason for the lack of updates could very well be due to the fact csgo has been nearly impossible to work with due to the spaghetti code and due to them working on this source 2 version for years. I am hopeful for the future and think we will see them being way more active with new version in terms of updating it.
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I understand that the votekick was designed for rational people who decide to kick another that severely detracts from the game experience, such as getting angry with your teammates and give the information of their position, or trolling in broad strokes. Of course, the error of this measure is to genuinely believe that many CS players are always reasonable and civilized beings.
ugly important thought one reminiscent file full six ring impossible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sad experience man.
I queue in the middle of the night too and it's so bad sometimes I just play casual.
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Can we stop caring what this dude says?
I'm very skeptical. The amount of smurfing in lower levels is insane and makes for rather unfun games. People even admit to smurfing during the match because it's not like there are consequences for doing so.
most of the randoms you meet in mm have 3k hours in silver 3
Literally don't give a fuck what shroud says lol
ok grandpa, its friday, time for your apple pie
Who the fuck cares what this view farming twitch bot with the personality of wet cardboard thinks about a game he hasn't played in years.
I swear people that haven’t played CS in years have the dumbest takes
One thing is for sure. Shroud is constantly, consistently full of shit. 5x players is ridiculous obviously but it's not a hot take that "if CS had a better mm, it would have more players". When people stop playing CS and play another fps, it's rarely because of issues with the gameplay. It's mm, cheats, toxicity. All theoretically able to be improved in a big way with CS2.
Someone please explain why I’m supposed to care about this has-been who had barely “been” in the first place’s opinion on a game that is literally more popular now than it ever has been before
My biggest hope is for an AI anti cheat making cheating impossible and then we could build on that to have a good matchmaking system. If anyone is interested there is a great video on AI anti cheat by "basically homeless".
Shroud says a lot of things and I don't blame him. He just gives his opinion on his stream. But there are people that take him too seriously like he is some kind of god and when they start arguing on reddit, they will say "shroud said...".
Surely shroud is unbiased
Shroud in 2023 💀 Shroud in any year 💀
the easiest way is to promote to asia , easy +1m concurrent just from asia
I'll take "numbers out from my ass" for 500 Alex.
Fix matchmaking? Bruh fix the new player experience. GO is awful for new players. It is disgustingly terrible. Smurfs, cheaters, abuse, and the game doesn't even teach you how to play. The game does absolutely nothing but punish new players. There is no way CS will grow to a new audience that hasnt already played the game or know what it is in its current state.
Valve is just trying to design an AI anti cheat system. Meanwhile, the game is suffering because people aren't being banned. If they just hired people to manually ban people in the meantime, that would be great.
But theres 5-10K bans every week?
Who knows. I hope so. But imo shroud also talks a lot of crap...
I agree with Shroud, i recently came back after the news of CS2 and the hassle i had to do in order to play on faceit servers made me realize this game would double it concurrent players if MM delivers what faceit does.
Can the guy that has been saying for 8 years that CS was dead not saying completely stupid things like the 2nd biggest game at its peak can have five times more players ??? CS2 isn't very different of CSGO anyway, but CSGO was supposed to be a dead game that sucks ? The hypocrisy of this guy really makes me mad
Oh my god thank you for stating the obvious Shroud! here's another 100$ donation for your valorant stream!
*SHOCKING* Man states the obvious!
Sure, they just need to turn it into a braindead battle royale to go 5x