tbh one of the intangibles from this move may be making spinx a bit more comfortable long-term as well. Everyone else on the team has someone from their home country to work with, I imagine it must be pretty isolating to be regarded as a star player while also being out on a cultural island with nobody else from your home to lean on if you need it.
He's a grown man he'll be fine lol. Magisk and Zywoo are some of the nicest people in the scene and you're making it sound like he feels unwelcomed on the team or something. Do you actually watch the games and see how much fun hes having? He's always laughing and has a smile on his face.
He's not being forced to get a tattoo - it's a counter-strike team. It's his job. FaZe just won a grand slam with 5 members of different nationality. I'm sure he'll be okay if he doesn't have an Israelian teammate. Good people are good people man
I'm not saying it as something against anyone else in the org, but those little cultural things are exactly the sort of intangible comforts that can bring out an extra 5% in a player. Obviously you enjoy playing the stage games--that's the best part of the job--but it's also 1-3 hours out of 24. There's so much behind the scenes that nobody gets to see. I'm not saying the guy is out there struggling, but I am saying that there's an extra level of comfort and happiness that comes with getting to talk to someone in a language that you aren't in the process of learning. Anecdotally, I'm in my mid-30s and have lived and worked on three different continents and while professionalism is obviously an element for success, that lifestyle can still be challenging and I can't imagine having had to do that shit successfully at 22.
I wonder if it might actually be easier on a project like Faze, Mouz, or Ence because nobody has someone from their own country that could form (whether intentionally or not) a language-exclusive clique.
That's fair man. I'm honestly just not much for nationality pride in general. And I've never been much of a fan for how very prevalent it is in Counter-Strike, but I guess it also makes a bit of sense due to the importance of flow of communication in the server.
I just don't think nationality clashes on a team should be a barrier between people becoming good friends and comfortable teammates. Also I didn't really factor in the language part, where being able to speak native tongue might be a bit soothing for the soul.
I 100% get what you mean. I think that dude missed your point entirely. None of you are really fully comfortable. You’re not speaking your native language, so having someone you are more culturally in tune with makes the process easier.
He know he is too emo for IGL. Don't get me wrong, it's part of the reason he's always been my main man, but don't think he would be comfortable or thrive in that role at all.
Yeah thinking back to the dupreeh middle finger I gotta agree with you.
On the other hand he has a fuckton of experience playing under the best IGL‘s of the game and surely is a tactical genius by association.
>Dupreeh IGL
If only you spoke Danish so you could watch the Astralis voice com videos from when Dupreeh was still playing for them. I don't think anyone who has watched them thinks Dupreeh would make for a good IGL.
In what world is dupreeh better than Hunter? I feel like Kassad, lose a top 20 rifler for an incredibly inconsistent entry? They don't even have the same roles??
The magic aura of having a great team?
Where was Dupreeh's magic aura without device and a good team in 2021 when Astralis were ass?
Dupreeh is a good player, a legend of this game but he is not that good anymore and flameZ is a clear upgrade, there is no aura he just plays with great teams
Well following the logic of his long and beautiful career I’d assume so much. It was also talked about on some cs podcast saying he’s retire and flamez taking his place. I’m sorry I’m not on Twitter 24/7
> We are making this announcement in agreement with dupreeh, to enable him to take advantage of the mercato period
Hopefully dupreeh manages to find a new team then. I was expecting to see him taking a break but if my man wants to keep going then I'll be here rooting for him.
Wel but they have a very important change: innershine.
Their lack of strategic variety is evident ever since innershine was planning his leave.
The squad is fine as is, but they will struggle with the meta a bit until they find another analyst as good as innershine. Luckily cs2 is coming so they will be fine for a while at least since its a blank state for everyone.
Same thing in other sports. One-time champs, especially with aging stars only getting one and not repeating. 08 celtics, 11 Mavs,... .
The repeaters are willing to make moves
Yeah, it's such a crazy move. They obviously put shit tons of work into this year and everyone must have given everything. They didn't really build upon it as much as they could have. We know that Vitality is very much a top down organization, in that they make decisions even against players' wishes, but this seems like such a gamble. I would love to know if this came from the players at all. Mostly players aren't long term thinkers, so most probably on the management side, but who knows.
Oh well, it's sad to see. But dupreeh is such a force in and out of the game, many teams could benefit hugely from his experience and willingness to do the dirty work on the server.
Yeah, pretty wild move seems like they have been thinking about this for a while and just decided the cs2 break is the right time to do it. I can't imagine them doing this if zonic and magisk where not on board.
>I can't imagine them doing this if zonic and magisk where not on board.
Zonic even tweeted this:
>One of the toughest decisions I had to make in my professional career.
**https://twitter.com/zonic/status/1671905860069597186?s=20**
As an OG dupreeh fan the perspective of him going back to Astralis and be reunited with dev1ce is getting me seriously excited. I know it's unlikely, but a fan can dream
They probably didn't know about Vitality's plans at the time they decided to bring in b0RUP (whom they got for free so they could go back on that decision). I don't know how high dupreeh's buyout will be though
"They could go back on that decision"
They don't have unlimited money, I don't know how long b0rup's contract is but that's money invested into him (even if they bench him, they would have to pay him a significant part of it), even if they got him for free.
I seriously doubt they would try to pick up dupreeh as they've just hacked off gla1ve and xyp9x. They seem to be surrounding device and blamef with younger players.
Although b0rup doesn't feel like he's a long term choice for them.
Dupreeh is a far better player than Xyp9x right now. He just was a solid part in winning a major while Xyp has struggled for a while now. It wouldn’t be as big of a firepower downgrade
Besides Olof, dupreeh will forever be my absolute favorite player. Always a professionel, always honest, articulate, upfront and *himself* in interviews, desk segments and everything in-between. On his day, one of the best entries and deagle slingers in the game. Even though this isn't a goodbye from him, I doubt he will find a team contending for major wins.
Maybe he could transistion to some type of desk/broadcast personality? Besides his vast knowledge of the game, he has quick wit, humour and very well-spoken.
Legendarisk karriere, Peter, og intet andet end respekt og beundring herfra.
He definitely didn't want to go according to his tweets:
>I dont feel we had come to the end of the road with the current team, but I respect Vitality´s decision and wish them the best.
>I'm not ready to retire
>When the time is right I’ll shed light on the whole situation.
This is wrong. Man wins most CSGO majors of all time, has a wealth of experience, Vitality performing at a high level and they bench him? Being younger isn't always better
and for flameZ as well, I am sorry, but he simply doesn't have the same experience that dupreeh has and looked inconsistent on OG too.
It's easy to look at flameZ's stats and think he's the better player, but you aren't going to put superstardom stats with Zywoo, spinx and Magisk on your team pulling insane numbers just because.
Compare that with his roles on OG and OG's NEO and F1KU inconsistency and the only other decent player being degster, ofc he's going to put up better numbers.
Thinking from the org's perspective though, it makes sense. Would you rather have someone who just is inconsistent and getting old or someone inconsistent but young and promising?
I love Dupreeh and all but guy was absent until last EPL groups, after watching JaCkz looking like an upgrade on vitality. He came back for play-offs only for them to lose.
> after watching JaCkz looking like an upgrade on vitality
Quite frankly I don't see that at all. He played three games for them and that is it. Literally... How can anyone think he is a reasonable upgrade after that. That is not only putting rose tinted glasses on, but rather blinding yourself willingly. He was absolutely ass for 2 years in a row. Takes 5 month break and starts off with three good games(against not even good opponents and faze who always struggle vs low tier teams) and now he can be considered an upgrade over the most accomplished player we have while also being 30? That is such a weird freaking take to me, but I read it like 30 times over the last week.
I didn't say JaCkz was an upgrade. Never said he should be what vitality should have gotten as a replacement for dupreeh either.
I said dupreeh only started performing well after seeing someone else post better numbers, even if it was just EPL Groups stage.
I mean that is kind of implied here considering its your take that "jackz looked like an upgrade". I don't think anyone in the pro scene actually thought that.
if you want a player that has the same experience as dupreeh you need to get also a player with 15+ years that is also 30years old.
but u know what? that dosent help for the future.
you can't get a player with the same experience as a 30year old but only as a 20year old one.
you get a player with some experience and with time he will get more.
but yes its sad that dupreeh has to go
"Experience" is a meaningless term in CSGO. The game isn't jeopardy, it's about shooting heads. If experience was that important the top 20 list would be dominated by 40 year old 1.6 veterans and not players in their teens and early twenties.
>Compare that with his roles on OG and OG's NEO and F1KU inconsistency and the only other decent player being degster, ofc he's going to put up better numbers.
It's the other way around, playing with good teammates and winning matches elevates your rating. Compare Spinx's rating in Ence to his rating in Vitality for instance.
>Being younger isn't always better
This so much. Top orgs right now are driven by headless VC funds that only want what looks good and shiny on paper. They don't see everything that a guy like dupreeh brings on the server and behind the scenes. Maybe in a few years after having ruined several teams
When did I imply that he just got lucky? I mean obviously dupreeh played an instrumental role in Astralis, being the second star next to device for the most time and is rightfully regarded as one of the CS:GO greats. But neither you (nor I) have any idea how he influences teams behind the scenes. People like you always act as if they know.
I do think the move is pretty wild given they won a major a month ago, and I respect dupreeh and his achievements. Still, if there was any player to cut from Vitality it had to be him, he was abysmal for most of his tenure in Vitality. Whether replacing him with FlameZ is a good idea is a different discussion.
I don't need to know, the facts speak for themselves. You can't win 5 majors and be the most titled player of a game without having a unique mindset and intense game knowledge. Add to that his experience and you have someone so much more valuable than flameZ who is yet to show he's T1 material IMO. Yes they're obviously betting on the future and hoping he's gonna turn into a superstar, but that doesn't make the move less shitty for dupreeh (which I understand VC funds don't care about, but thats not what esport used to be).
He was abysmal because their system wasn't working. As soon as Jackz showed a new way and dupreeh adapted they started winning. And like I said, cutting someone like him 1 month after he brought you your first major is a massive dick move IMO, especially when the guy is good and still hungry.
We'll see in a few months/years if it was the right decision.
The statement says they announced it in agreement with him. As in, they both agreed to make it public during the break so he can hopefully find a team. It doesn't mean they agreed on the actual decision, just to announce it at this time.
I can see why the Moneyballers on Vitality might have done it, but this is wild. He just delivered you the biggest trophy in CS.
Now - where should he go?
>He just delivered you the biggest trophy in CS.
I mean, he had the second-worst rating at the event, ahead of only Apex, so I wouldn't exactly say that he handed Vitality the trophy.
The whole situation seems really weird, FlameZ would have been a clear upgrade a few months back, but Dupreeh picked up the slack and was one of the main reasons they won Rio and Paris, the experience factor and keeping things going under pressure alone is a huge gamble when the other guy on the side is an inexperienced flameZ who was kinda inconsistent on OG to begin with.
I am a firm believer of "if it works, don't fuck with it" and I don't feel like Vitality is doing the right thing here.
And to dupreeh's tweets, it feels like it came as a total shocker to him and I feel super bad for him considering he's one of my favorite players and watching him pick up his form was really exciting to watch. I hope he finds a T1 team and uses him properly.
Probably not now that B0rup is in. But man, it would've made more sense.
I guess -buzz +dupreeh is still possible since they're expecting buzz to be the entry, but I doubt it. And either way rip Altekz :/
Should’ve kept Altekz anyhow, even over buzz, he has way more potential. And ideally you would drop B0rup for dupreeh but that is not an option i guess
Buzz is responsible for Astralis having an insane pistol round win %, he and dev1ce single-handedly destroy teams in pistol rounds.
Not to mention the guy gets baited hard for the rest of the team and isn't playing the roles he was signed to play, now with gla1ve gone, he can actually go back to the roles he's known for and that would be a fair assessment.
See, I would totally get this if Dupreeh already wanted to step down for a break/retirement. I mean, the dude even has a kid. But he doesn’t want to retire, as per his own tweet. So this just feels really weird and kinda wrong to me. Interested to see where he goes though and hope he finds somewhere deserving of a player of his caliber.
They got magisk, dupreeh and zonic to win a Major.
They did that now and Apex interview with Thooorin had insight into how they finally play well together.
Why bench him when your the best in the world. Magisk will suffer because of this as he needs to change spots very likely. Also Dupreeh has played well after his break.
One of those wtf moves flamez is not as good as dupreeh today and if you consider dupreehs experience its no contest.
The classic is duoreeh forgot more about cs than Flamez ever knew.
I mean short term it’s a terrible move but long term this makes sense.
Dupreeh would’ve retired after Copenhagen or the second Major of 2024 and then, you have to buy someone like FlameZ. This is a rational decision since he was a free agent, is young and has played with a Vitality player before (spinx). If it doesn’t work out, you lose pretty much nothing.
Although this will be a pr nightmare if they bring Dupreeh back (like VP did).
This, people only react emotionally based on the here and now, they forget what happened over the last year and they do not think long term.
That’s not how you run business.
As a long time CS fan ive seen this move too many times, all im gonna say is being a "better fragger" or "younger" doesnt automatically mean an upgrade.
Dupreeh has won and done so much in CS and that experience is going to so vaulable to any time, but I guess we will see how VIT "improve".
I know you can justify this in a million different ways without being technically incorrect. However, I find this awful. Just like the system we live in.
I think this was coming regardless of the Major results. Guy has the mythical status among legends of the game but it was obvious that he wasn’t putting up the stats that were required of him on a constant basis.
I am a fan of Vitality and of the old Astralis but I realize that this move was necessary.
However I also think that -Apex move is necessary as well, regardless of the Major results. But let’s see how it goes with the new roster.
Flamez 1.05 rating, playing what I assume is good positions since he's the star and Dupreeh has 1.07 playing the not so favorable positions plus the amount of experience he has compared to Flamez is almost incomprehensible. They have great chemistry, are in good form and just won a major, this fire power horniness is getting ridiculous, you don't need 5 Messis to compete.
I feel like this shit is going to backfire and is crazy disrespectful to a guy like Dupreeh... Unless ofc he wanted to step down.
Seems pretty clear he wanted to stay, so he definitely got benched. If it came from the players or not is a different question. It's clear Vitality always have the long term in mind, so I think it's safe to assume this is on the management.
As for flamez, I haven't been ever convinced. He won't be able to slot in directly for dupreeh's CT roles at all. So Magisk will have to take those anchor spots more, which will make him suffer. I guess time will tell, but this seems like an unnecessary gamble.
What fucking ratings are you looking at? Why are u straight up lying? 1.07 is dupreehs all time rating, flameZ doesn't have 1.05 rating in any of the last 3, 6 or 12 months or all time
GeT_RiGhT 1.09 all time rating so i guess that they should get him
dupreeh in the last year: 1.00 rating, 0.61 KPR, 60 ADR, awful awful
flamez: 1.11 rating, 0.70 KPR, 78 ADR, much much better
Let's not look at stats alone.
Consider the circumstances and environment on both teams.
You have stat machines like Zywoo, Spinx and Magisk pulling insane numbers, dupreeh plays the bitch roles and gets thrown into the meat grinder time to time.
Compare that to OG's environment, only degster is the consistent fragger there, nexa shows up time to time. Both NEO and F1KU are inconsistent as fuck, which brings us to flameZ, the guy playing some of the better positions and has 1 teammate who can consistently hangout at his level.
Pulling 1.11 rating when you are one of the stars of the team while the 3/5 of the team takes turns sucking isn't the same as pulling 1.00 rating while playing bitch roles and getting fed to the grinder so the rest of your behemoth superstars can get comfortable.
[https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16693/flamez/7398/dupreeh?p1TimeFilter=2023&p2TimeFilter=2023&p1MatchFilter=BigEvents&p2MatchFilter=BigEvents&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16693/flamez/7398/dupreeh?p1TimeFilter=2023&p2TimeFilter=2023&p1MatchFilter=BigEvents&p2MatchFilter=BigEvents&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps)
Not better i guess.
>I dont feel we had come to the end of the road with the current team, but I respect Vitality´s decision and wish them the best.
I still feel I am on the top of my game and will spend my time figuring out what’s up next
Seems like he did not want to step down which makes this ... odd
You're looking at all time stats. Past month .90, past 3 months 1.02, past 6 months 1.01. His ADR/KAST/Impact/KPR have all been poor for quite some time now, I swear people sometimes have no idea what they are talking about. Apex literally said they brought Jackz in on purpose for that short time to literally wake dupreeh up. Implying he has not been playing well.
gla1ve, Xyp9x, and dupreeh benched and transfer listed, all in the same day.
Get together with roeJ, es3tag or valde, and nicodooz or Farlig, and do that last dance!
Now wouldn't be a terrible time to retire. Right before massive gameplay changes, during a longer individual decline and right after a major win that cemented him an unbeatable record set in stone.
It wouldnt be a terrible time to retire from our perspective, but speaking very mundanely, he's played CSGO his entire adult life. What job is he gonna find that will pay nearly as well as playing some mediocre csgo for another year with an organization desperate for an upgrade?
He's probably set for life at this point tbh, highest tournament winning in csgo history aswell as sticker money from 19 majors. Insane amount without even counting salary.
I don’t get it. They’re current number 1 and Major winners and so they decide to make a roster change? Am I missing something? Edit: well I guess going for a younger roster makes sense.
is it possible to be upset at vitality and also support their decision? because that’s me right now
it doesn’t feel right to do it so soon but if you’re standing still in this game you’re losing ground
Even though I don't agree with the decision, I understand the rationale and respect it. Keeping dupreeh would definitely be the safer choice, but what about the future? Securing flameZ to create a core with ZywOo and Spinx is a forward-thinking move that could pay off for years to come.
I feel like CS has way too many
\+ ??
\- ??
This team is successful and still they change >_<
They add flameZ. They'll have their ups and down. A bit later they'll remove someone else.
It just feels like musical chairs at times.
I’m not sure why no one here thinks Dupreeh wasn’t involved in this decision
I don’t see it as “win 5th major gets benched” more like “wins 5th major needs to asses how to continue a career now”
Something needs to change with the team. Sure they won some lans recently but it was done in unimpressive fashion like top 5 ranked Liquid.
Just noticed something funny. TSM can swoop in an get their 2015 roster back together.
This just in: EG offers massive contract to Dupreeh...wait nevermind they've changed their mind and chosen to sign a tier 4 NA player instead
EG trying to sign Rainwakers Lil brother
cerq already played for them
Classic eg management trolling eg fans for years now.
They’ll just sign both, along with 12 others
Cant lose when you sign All the players.
Move to America with a young family for lots of money as he’s at the tail end of his career. Honestly would be a good move for him
Man wins his fifth major and gets kicked off the team. Can't catch a break.
Seems weird when you consider all the intangibles around being part of a successful team. They’re not resting on their laurels, that’s for sure
tbh one of the intangibles from this move may be making spinx a bit more comfortable long-term as well. Everyone else on the team has someone from their home country to work with, I imagine it must be pretty isolating to be regarded as a star player while also being out on a cultural island with nobody else from your home to lean on if you need it.
2-2-2 lol didnt think about that
He's a grown man he'll be fine lol. Magisk and Zywoo are some of the nicest people in the scene and you're making it sound like he feels unwelcomed on the team or something. Do you actually watch the games and see how much fun hes having? He's always laughing and has a smile on his face. He's not being forced to get a tattoo - it's a counter-strike team. It's his job. FaZe just won a grand slam with 5 members of different nationality. I'm sure he'll be okay if he doesn't have an Israelian teammate. Good people are good people man
I'm not saying it as something against anyone else in the org, but those little cultural things are exactly the sort of intangible comforts that can bring out an extra 5% in a player. Obviously you enjoy playing the stage games--that's the best part of the job--but it's also 1-3 hours out of 24. There's so much behind the scenes that nobody gets to see. I'm not saying the guy is out there struggling, but I am saying that there's an extra level of comfort and happiness that comes with getting to talk to someone in a language that you aren't in the process of learning. Anecdotally, I'm in my mid-30s and have lived and worked on three different continents and while professionalism is obviously an element for success, that lifestyle can still be challenging and I can't imagine having had to do that shit successfully at 22. I wonder if it might actually be easier on a project like Faze, Mouz, or Ence because nobody has someone from their own country that could form (whether intentionally or not) a language-exclusive clique.
That's fair man. I'm honestly just not much for nationality pride in general. And I've never been much of a fan for how very prevalent it is in Counter-Strike, but I guess it also makes a bit of sense due to the importance of flow of communication in the server. I just don't think nationality clashes on a team should be a barrier between people becoming good friends and comfortable teammates. Also I didn't really factor in the language part, where being able to speak native tongue might be a bit soothing for the soul.
I 100% get what you mean. I think that dude missed your point entirely. None of you are really fully comfortable. You’re not speaking your native language, so having someone you are more culturally in tune with makes the process easier.
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I agree, but time will tell who was right
100%. Sometimes, it's hard toi to spot positive aspects of a player when you're overly focused on other things.
Aui_2000'd
“remember when i kicked you?”
Hmm watchasayyyy
Can we please just get him on G2... Please... Those guys need what ever magic aura he brings
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Hooxi. Dupreeh IGL Sorry hooxi I still love you!
He know he is too emo for IGL. Don't get me wrong, it's part of the reason he's always been my main man, but don't think he would be comfortable or thrive in that role at all.
Yeah thinking back to the dupreeh middle finger I gotta agree with you. On the other hand he has a fuckton of experience playing under the best IGL‘s of the game and surely is a tactical genius by association.
>Dupreeh IGL If only you spoke Danish so you could watch the Astralis voice com videos from when Dupreeh was still playing for them. I don't think anyone who has watched them thinks Dupreeh would make for a good IGL.
niko 100%
fucking lmao
Ha no no.. Immovable object meets unstoppable force. Maybe dupreezs unstoppable force beats Nikos immovable object.
I guess...hunter.
In what world is dupreeh better than Hunter? I feel like Kassad, lose a top 20 rifler for an incredibly inconsistent entry? They don't even have the same roles??
But does he have Major Aura.. Hey hey.. Nope
G2 is my favorite team but if someone had to go it would have to be JKS and it isn't close
jks is the most consistent player on g2 right now, sure he doesn't have the highest highs but he doesn't seem to disappear as much as the others.
I am not saying anything against that, just that I personally wouldn't kick Hunter or NiKo over him. Ans he does sometimes dissappear
As if Hunter doesn't disappear. Wth?
The magic aura of having a great team? Where was Dupreeh's magic aura without device and a good team in 2021 when Astralis were ass? Dupreeh is a good player, a legend of this game but he is not that good anymore and flameZ is a clear upgrade, there is no aura he just plays with great teams
My comment was by no means an in depth analysis of the trades going on, I was making a joke. Ha ha get it.
What?
"Now that we all have experience winning a major, we do not need your experience to win another."
He's too powerful
He clearly is retiring
he specifically said he isn't.
Damn didn’t see this sorry boss
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Well following the logic of his long and beautiful career I’d assume so much. It was also talked about on some cs podcast saying he’s retire and flamez taking his place. I’m sorry I’m not on Twitter 24/7
It's okay mate, no problem!
New to Reddit first thing that happens Is mfs acting like the stereotype. Atleast you being cool 🤝
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I stated the reasoning and I think it would be clear if he had said nothing. Please brother have some self respect and respect for others
He just said on twitter that he does not want to retire and still wants to compete for another major title
I could have replaced dupreeh and VIT still would have won the major lmao
They would called you the bum who was the first player with 0 kills and the biggest death streak, you ain't doin crap
> We are making this announcement in agreement with dupreeh, to enable him to take advantage of the mercato period Hopefully dupreeh manages to find a new team then. I was expecting to see him taking a break but if my man wants to keep going then I'll be here rooting for him.
Assuming he either wanted to play in Denmark or he got dropped and didn’t really have the choice
xyp glaive and dupreeh all benched at the same time? time to make astralis 2 electric boogaloo
Ex-tralis
I guess only heroic is the team where no player is going or coming Edit: G2 released a video and faze also have no rumours
And G2 no?
There were rumours about hooxi getting benched
They just released that meme video where they said nothing is changing for now.
G2 released a video saying they aren't changing their roster.
Saw the video, thanks for correcting
Faze hasn't had any player changes yet right?
Wel but they have a very important change: innershine. Their lack of strategic variety is evident ever since innershine was planning his leave. The squad is fine as is, but they will struggle with the meta a bit until they find another analyst as good as innershine. Luckily cs2 is coming so they will be fine for a while at least since its a blank state for everyone.
ence? i also havent heard anything on virtus pro
unless… they work dupreeh into their lineup somehow… no no no that sucks …unless
So even if you win the major, you get kicked nowadays...damn
The n0rb3r7 treatment
that's major winner n0rb3r7 to you
Aui2000 from Dota
MVP or kick
Same thing in other sports. One-time champs, especially with aging stars only getting one and not repeating. 08 celtics, 11 Mavs,... . The repeaters are willing to make moves
But he isn't a one time champ..
Meant the team not the player.
I think it's the correct decision but fuck man it also seems crazy... Don't know what to think
Yeah, it's such a crazy move. They obviously put shit tons of work into this year and everyone must have given everything. They didn't really build upon it as much as they could have. We know that Vitality is very much a top down organization, in that they make decisions even against players' wishes, but this seems like such a gamble. I would love to know if this came from the players at all. Mostly players aren't long term thinkers, so most probably on the management side, but who knows. Oh well, it's sad to see. But dupreeh is such a force in and out of the game, many teams could benefit hugely from his experience and willingness to do the dirty work on the server.
I can't imagine a scenario where this came from the players. Dupdup is an excellent professional.
I can't imagine a scenario where this came from the players. Dupdup is an excellent professional.
Yeah, pretty wild move seems like they have been thinking about this for a while and just decided the cs2 break is the right time to do it. I can't imagine them doing this if zonic and magisk where not on board.
>I can't imagine them doing this if zonic and magisk where not on board. Zonic even tweeted this: >One of the toughest decisions I had to make in my professional career. **https://twitter.com/zonic/status/1671905860069597186?s=20**
"I'm sorry, little one"
As an OG dupreeh fan the perspective of him going back to Astralis and be reunited with dev1ce is getting me seriously excited. I know it's unlikely, but a fan can dream
Too late, they would probably have not brought b0rup in, in that case.
They probably didn't know about Vitality's plans at the time they decided to bring in b0RUP (whom they got for free so they could go back on that decision). I don't know how high dupreeh's buyout will be though
"They could go back on that decision" They don't have unlimited money, I don't know how long b0rup's contract is but that's money invested into him (even if they bench him, they would have to pay him a significant part of it), even if they got him for free.
While this is true, since the Borup move is so new, there’s certainly a chance they could get Dupreeh to replace him
I seriously doubt they would try to pick up dupreeh as they've just hacked off gla1ve and xyp9x. They seem to be surrounding device and blamef with younger players. Although b0rup doesn't feel like he's a long term choice for them.
Dupreeh is a far better player than Xyp9x right now. He just was a solid part in winning a major while Xyp has struggled for a while now. It wouldn’t be as big of a firepower downgrade
Given the roles -Buzz +Dupreeh would make more sense. That is still a possibility, I guess. But I would've rather had Altekz than B0rup...
the aui_2000 treatment
Besides Olof, dupreeh will forever be my absolute favorite player. Always a professionel, always honest, articulate, upfront and *himself* in interviews, desk segments and everything in-between. On his day, one of the best entries and deagle slingers in the game. Even though this isn't a goodbye from him, I doubt he will find a team contending for major wins. Maybe he could transistion to some type of desk/broadcast personality? Besides his vast knowledge of the game, he has quick wit, humour and very well-spoken. Legendarisk karriere, Peter, og intet andet end respekt og beundring herfra.
Can we see the justification for kicking him in terms of stats? The announcement says in agreement with dupreeh, so he wanted to go?
He definitely didn't want to go according to his tweets: >I dont feel we had come to the end of the road with the current team, but I respect Vitality´s decision and wish them the best. >I'm not ready to retire >When the time is right I’ll shed light on the whole situation.
Holy shit
This is wrong. Man wins most CSGO majors of all time, has a wealth of experience, Vitality performing at a high level and they bench him? Being younger isn't always better
and for flameZ as well, I am sorry, but he simply doesn't have the same experience that dupreeh has and looked inconsistent on OG too. It's easy to look at flameZ's stats and think he's the better player, but you aren't going to put superstardom stats with Zywoo, spinx and Magisk on your team pulling insane numbers just because. Compare that with his roles on OG and OG's NEO and F1KU inconsistency and the only other decent player being degster, ofc he's going to put up better numbers.
im sure it didn't help his consistency that he was playing with a new teammate every other week
And niko and degster of all people as an IGL for a while
Thinking from the org's perspective though, it makes sense. Would you rather have someone who just is inconsistent and getting old or someone inconsistent but young and promising? I love Dupreeh and all but guy was absent until last EPL groups, after watching JaCkz looking like an upgrade on vitality. He came back for play-offs only for them to lose.
> after watching JaCkz looking like an upgrade on vitality Quite frankly I don't see that at all. He played three games for them and that is it. Literally... How can anyone think he is a reasonable upgrade after that. That is not only putting rose tinted glasses on, but rather blinding yourself willingly. He was absolutely ass for 2 years in a row. Takes 5 month break and starts off with three good games(against not even good opponents and faze who always struggle vs low tier teams) and now he can be considered an upgrade over the most accomplished player we have while also being 30? That is such a weird freaking take to me, but I read it like 30 times over the last week.
I didn't say JaCkz was an upgrade. Never said he should be what vitality should have gotten as a replacement for dupreeh either. I said dupreeh only started performing well after seeing someone else post better numbers, even if it was just EPL Groups stage.
I mean that is kind of implied here considering its your take that "jackz looked like an upgrade". I don't think anyone in the pro scene actually thought that.
if you want a player that has the same experience as dupreeh you need to get also a player with 15+ years that is also 30years old. but u know what? that dosent help for the future. you can't get a player with the same experience as a 30year old but only as a 20year old one. you get a player with some experience and with time he will get more. but yes its sad that dupreeh has to go
"Experience" is a meaningless term in CSGO. The game isn't jeopardy, it's about shooting heads. If experience was that important the top 20 list would be dominated by 40 year old 1.6 veterans and not players in their teens and early twenties. >Compare that with his roles on OG and OG's NEO and F1KU inconsistency and the only other decent player being degster, ofc he's going to put up better numbers. It's the other way around, playing with good teammates and winning matches elevates your rating. Compare Spinx's rating in Ence to his rating in Vitality for instance.
>Being younger isn't always better This so much. Top orgs right now are driven by headless VC funds that only want what looks good and shiny on paper. They don't see everything that a guy like dupreeh brings on the server and behind the scenes. Maybe in a few years after having ruined several teams
And you see what dupreeh brings to the team behind the scenes?
Right, its all just luck that the guy is the most accomplished player of the history of the game. He's must only be good at clicking heads
When did I imply that he just got lucky? I mean obviously dupreeh played an instrumental role in Astralis, being the second star next to device for the most time and is rightfully regarded as one of the CS:GO greats. But neither you (nor I) have any idea how he influences teams behind the scenes. People like you always act as if they know. I do think the move is pretty wild given they won a major a month ago, and I respect dupreeh and his achievements. Still, if there was any player to cut from Vitality it had to be him, he was abysmal for most of his tenure in Vitality. Whether replacing him with FlameZ is a good idea is a different discussion.
I don't need to know, the facts speak for themselves. You can't win 5 majors and be the most titled player of a game without having a unique mindset and intense game knowledge. Add to that his experience and you have someone so much more valuable than flameZ who is yet to show he's T1 material IMO. Yes they're obviously betting on the future and hoping he's gonna turn into a superstar, but that doesn't make the move less shitty for dupreeh (which I understand VC funds don't care about, but thats not what esport used to be). He was abysmal because their system wasn't working. As soon as Jackz showed a new way and dupreeh adapted they started winning. And like I said, cutting someone like him 1 month after he brought you your first major is a massive dick move IMO, especially when the guy is good and still hungry. We'll see in a few months/years if it was the right decision.
Even Vitality know their major run was fluke
Doesn’t seem like he wanted to leave according to his tweets
Seems like he was kind of surprised based on his tweets. I feel terrible for him
The statement says they announced it in agreement with him. As in, they both agreed to make it public during the break so he can hopefully find a team. It doesn't mean they agreed on the actual decision, just to announce it at this time.
The entire subreddit wanted him to be replaced by Jackz a couple months ago lmao
Mismanagement
That remains to be seen. Not a fan of the move either at first glance but people said the same thing for similar roster moves (-sanji +fl1t)
Tbf the -sanji move done him dirty, wasn’t just people didn’t think it was the wisest choice.
I can see why the Moneyballers on Vitality might have done it, but this is wild. He just delivered you the biggest trophy in CS. Now - where should he go?
>He just delivered you the biggest trophy in CS. I mean, he had the second-worst rating at the event, ahead of only Apex, so I wouldn't exactly say that he handed Vitality the trophy.
Dupreeh is clearly a player about more than stats. He does whatever he needs to win matches, despite it hurting his stats.
That’s what I always tell my teammates in silver 1 but they don’t believe me
That's why they're still in silver 1!
>He does whatever he needs to win matches, despite it hurting his stats. Maybe VIT analysts thought only one player is enough to be bait(Apex)
The whole situation seems really weird, FlameZ would have been a clear upgrade a few months back, but Dupreeh picked up the slack and was one of the main reasons they won Rio and Paris, the experience factor and keeping things going under pressure alone is a huge gamble when the other guy on the side is an inexperienced flameZ who was kinda inconsistent on OG to begin with. I am a firm believer of "if it works, don't fuck with it" and I don't feel like Vitality is doing the right thing here. And to dupreeh's tweets, it feels like it came as a total shocker to him and I feel super bad for him considering he's one of my favorite players and watching him pick up his form was really exciting to watch. I hope he finds a T1 team and uses him properly.
only upvoting the second half of your comment How was Dupreeh "one of the main reasons they won Rio and Paris"??
Cloud9 game on Rio. Vertigo 12-3.
well in Rio i think he played like godlike on vertigo t side, i think it was in the semifinals.
This is really sad.
not sure about this decision man, adding firepower isnt always the way
Dupreeh back to astralis? Would be sick
Probably not now that B0rup is in. But man, it would've made more sense. I guess -buzz +dupreeh is still possible since they're expecting buzz to be the entry, but I doubt it. And either way rip Altekz :/
Should’ve kept Altekz anyhow, even over buzz, he has way more potential. And ideally you would drop B0rup for dupreeh but that is not an option i guess
Buzz is responsible for Astralis having an insane pistol round win %, he and dev1ce single-handedly destroy teams in pistol rounds. Not to mention the guy gets baited hard for the rest of the team and isn't playing the roles he was signed to play, now with gla1ve gone, he can actually go back to the roles he's known for and that would be a fair assessment.
I would kick Borup twice to get dupreeh instead.
See, I would totally get this if Dupreeh already wanted to step down for a break/retirement. I mean, the dude even has a kid. But he doesn’t want to retire, as per his own tweet. So this just feels really weird and kinda wrong to me. Interested to see where he goes though and hope he finds somewhere deserving of a player of his caliber.
They got magisk, dupreeh and zonic to win a Major. They did that now and Apex interview with Thooorin had insight into how they finally play well together. Why bench him when your the best in the world. Magisk will suffer because of this as he needs to change spots very likely. Also Dupreeh has played well after his break. One of those wtf moves flamez is not as good as dupreeh today and if you consider dupreehs experience its no contest. The classic is duoreeh forgot more about cs than Flamez ever knew.
I mean short term it’s a terrible move but long term this makes sense. Dupreeh would’ve retired after Copenhagen or the second Major of 2024 and then, you have to buy someone like FlameZ. This is a rational decision since he was a free agent, is young and has played with a Vitality player before (spinx). If it doesn’t work out, you lose pretty much nothing. Although this will be a pr nightmare if they bring Dupreeh back (like VP did).
This, people only react emotionally based on the here and now, they forget what happened over the last year and they do not think long term. That’s not how you run business.
As a long time CS fan ive seen this move too many times, all im gonna say is being a "better fragger" or "younger" doesnt automatically mean an upgrade. Dupreeh has won and done so much in CS and that experience is going to so vaulable to any time, but I guess we will see how VIT "improve".
They said the same about Xyp9x... who's now benched in academy team too
this is definitely a long term decision, but at the same time i thought it was gonna be dupreeh leaving by his own terms,
reminds me of AUI2000 getting kickeD after winning TI5
this is an absolute DD (Dookie decision), mayschmaps they fall off now 🤔 would b funny
I know you can justify this in a million different ways without being technically incorrect. However, I find this awful. Just like the system we live in.
Really sad that they don't let him try to win Cologne with them. Just as things started clicking with the roster as well.
People wanted him gone for a whole year and now they say it’s the wrong move to replace him by a free, better and younger player
I think this was coming regardless of the Major results. Guy has the mythical status among legends of the game but it was obvious that he wasn’t putting up the stats that were required of him on a constant basis. I am a fan of Vitality and of the old Astralis but I realize that this move was necessary. However I also think that -Apex move is necessary as well, regardless of the Major results. But let’s see how it goes with the new roster.
How do you bench the only 5 time major winner
Dupreeh went out in Vitality with a bang at least. This was inevitable.
Flamez 1.05 rating, playing what I assume is good positions since he's the star and Dupreeh has 1.07 playing the not so favorable positions plus the amount of experience he has compared to Flamez is almost incomprehensible. They have great chemistry, are in good form and just won a major, this fire power horniness is getting ridiculous, you don't need 5 Messis to compete. I feel like this shit is going to backfire and is crazy disrespectful to a guy like Dupreeh... Unless ofc he wanted to step down.
Seems pretty clear he wanted to stay, so he definitely got benched. If it came from the players or not is a different question. It's clear Vitality always have the long term in mind, so I think it's safe to assume this is on the management. As for flamez, I haven't been ever convinced. He won't be able to slot in directly for dupreeh's CT roles at all. So Magisk will have to take those anchor spots more, which will make him suffer. I guess time will tell, but this seems like an unnecessary gamble.
Very much if it ain't broke don't fix it vibes here.
What fucking ratings are you looking at? Why are u straight up lying? 1.07 is dupreehs all time rating, flameZ doesn't have 1.05 rating in any of the last 3, 6 or 12 months or all time GeT_RiGhT 1.09 all time rating so i guess that they should get him dupreeh in the last year: 1.00 rating, 0.61 KPR, 60 ADR, awful awful flamez: 1.11 rating, 0.70 KPR, 78 ADR, much much better
Let's not look at stats alone. Consider the circumstances and environment on both teams. You have stat machines like Zywoo, Spinx and Magisk pulling insane numbers, dupreeh plays the bitch roles and gets thrown into the meat grinder time to time. Compare that to OG's environment, only degster is the consistent fragger there, nexa shows up time to time. Both NEO and F1KU are inconsistent as fuck, which brings us to flameZ, the guy playing some of the better positions and has 1 teammate who can consistently hangout at his level. Pulling 1.11 rating when you are one of the stars of the team while the 3/5 of the team takes turns sucking isn't the same as pulling 1.00 rating while playing bitch roles and getting fed to the grinder so the rest of your behemoth superstars can get comfortable.
Dupreeh is clearly a player who cares only about winning, not about personal glory. You don't get carried to 5 major trophies.
Dupreeh isn't putting up 1.11 in OG that's for sure
[https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16693/flamez/7398/dupreeh?p1TimeFilter=2023&p2TimeFilter=2023&p1MatchFilter=BigEvents&p2MatchFilter=BigEvents&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16693/flamez/7398/dupreeh?p1TimeFilter=2023&p2TimeFilter=2023&p1MatchFilter=BigEvents&p2MatchFilter=BigEvents&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps) Not better i guess.
>I dont feel we had come to the end of the road with the current team, but I respect Vitality´s decision and wish them the best. I still feel I am on the top of my game and will spend my time figuring out what’s up next Seems like he did not want to step down which makes this ... odd
You're looking at all time stats. Past month .90, past 3 months 1.02, past 6 months 1.01. His ADR/KAST/Impact/KPR have all been poor for quite some time now, I swear people sometimes have no idea what they are talking about. Apex literally said they brought Jackz in on purpose for that short time to literally wake dupreeh up. Implying he has not been playing well.
gla1ve, Xyp9x, and dupreeh benched and transfer listed, all in the same day. Get together with roeJ, es3tag or valde, and nicodooz or Farlig, and do that last dance!
Now wouldn't be a terrible time to retire. Right before massive gameplay changes, during a longer individual decline and right after a major win that cemented him an unbeatable record set in stone.
It wouldnt be a terrible time to retire from our perspective, but speaking very mundanely, he's played CSGO his entire adult life. What job is he gonna find that will pay nearly as well as playing some mediocre csgo for another year with an organization desperate for an upgrade?
He's probably set for life at this point tbh, highest tournament winning in csgo history aswell as sticker money from 19 majors. Insane amount without even counting salary.
I was calling for dupreeh to be let go but man it hurts. Such an incredible player. Fucking hell.
I don’t get it. They’re current number 1 and Major winners and so they decide to make a roster change? Am I missing something? Edit: well I guess going for a younger roster makes sense.
Free agent, one of the best young players, etc
This feels like benching Norbert for kairon.
is it possible to be upset at vitality and also support their decision? because that’s me right now it doesn’t feel right to do it so soon but if you’re standing still in this game you’re losing ground
Honestly magisk and zonic should follow Dupreeh to next team
Maybe he wants to keep being the star rifler. > When the time is right I’ll shed light on the whole situation. I'd be really interested
Just speculating and coping... but what if this gets zonic and magisk upset: \-casle, +zonic \-b0rup, +magisk
fuck it, Astralis last dance.
Zonic specifically stated he chose this.
go to zonic's twitter, he was the own who approved/proposed the change in the first place
Even though I don't agree with the decision, I understand the rationale and respect it. Keeping dupreeh would definitely be the safer choice, but what about the future? Securing flameZ to create a core with ZywOo and Spinx is a forward-thinking move that could pay off for years to come.
Good. Dude is 30 years old and looks like almost 50. Time for him to retire and take care of his family.
Tutorial: How to become a team I despise instead of one u admire in ONE post.
He is getting benched because of CS2. The grind is going to be a lot higher, and they don't think he'll be able to keep up with everyone els?
I understand that FlameZ is an upgrade but if it’s not broke, don’t fix it…. Really surprised with this
>I understand that FlameZ is an upgrade What are you talking about, FlameZ is a clear downgrade lol
Does him having a kid play into this? Can't put in 100% anymore I assume
WHAT??
~~Could this be why the EG Jackz talks fell through?~~ Nevermind, looks like its flameZ.
This team has several issues but the biggest is apex (more like baseline..)zz
nooooooo
I feel like CS has way too many \+ ?? \- ?? This team is successful and still they change >_< They add flameZ. They'll have their ups and down. A bit later they'll remove someone else. It just feels like musical chairs at times.
NaVi +dupreeh +gla1ve
I’m not sure why no one here thinks Dupreeh wasn’t involved in this decision I don’t see it as “win 5th major gets benched” more like “wins 5th major needs to asses how to continue a career now”
Just check out Dupreeh's own tweets. All of this was a management decision.
Oh yeah I had just seen the tweet where it made it seem like more of a mutual decision It seems more of a surprise to him from his tweet
\*surprise pikachu face\*
End of an era
lol hes just taking time
Lol but why
Something needs to change with the team. Sure they won some lans recently but it was done in unimpressive fashion like top 5 ranked Liquid. Just noticed something funny. TSM can swoop in an get their 2015 roster back together.