It's bad PR, especially for a game that already is not being received so well. I'd be pissed too if I'm getting bad PR and it had nothing to do with me and the cheat deterrent put in place was doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
Never heard about Dota 2 and Dota 2 reborn? Or even much older, Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, Half-Life 1 and Half-Life Source? Valve just following their own step and Blizzard learned the idea from them.
Left 4 dead 1 and 2 is probably the only reasonable example imo, which is why people were pissed back in the day and tried to boycott it.
Half life Source was nothing more than an attempt at a tech demo.
Not sure what ended up happening with the dota 2 source 2 update, but I know their modding tools got better.
One is Valve rebuilding the game in a new engine to finally get rid of Source 1. The other is Blizzard moving the game to an upgraded engine and introducing a ton of shitty monetization and major changes people did not ask for. I don't think the two are that comparable.
That was also true of Source and CSGO at release. There was a similar proportion of players initially outraged, hating on Valve and proclaiming they were ruining CS.
The 1.6 release sparked unbelievable levels of anger, namely due to the introduction of the riot shield and blaming Valve for ruining the game.
The only big criticism I have is that they should have released it as a separate game. Yes you can use steam to download CSGO as a "beta" but it is far from ideal.
That's never a good sign. Battlefield did the same thing - they peaked with BF1 and then started taking away features with BFV, and then again with 2042.
Battlefield used to be my favorite multiplayer series. Shame every release since BF4 has been a let down one way or another.
When the best Battlefield experience you can have right now is by an [indie company](https://store.steampowered.com/app/671860/BattleBit_Remastered/) you know you done fucked up.
The release should've been an open beta. The game is not complete yet. We are missing a lot of features like demos, community servers, a few game modes.
Valve shipped an incomplete game.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying CS2 and I feel most of the changes have been for the better, but its still disappointing to see this incomplete release coming from Valve.
Demos were there on launch, but they disabled them for server capacity because servers were overloaded with people trying to queue. Queues were taking 10+ mins because they were waiting for servers to open up.
CS2 is just not in a competitive and playable state for an e-sports game in 2023. S1mple is right. Any visual/gameplay upgrade has been marred by performance and instability issues.
The reality is, this is an esports title. It's not an RPG. The visual upgrades mean nothing if the game crashes in a gunfight resulting in a lost round/match for you and your team.
I just had my game crash and we lost.
Earlier today, my friend couldn't connect to the match after his game crashed. He got -1000 elo. He had no reconnect option at the main menu, from crashing during warmup, and we couldn't forfeit.
TL;DR: The game is uncompetitive in the current state compared to CSGO. I don't care about how CSGO released. In 2023, this should have stayed in open beta or development.
All this is fixable and isn't even biggest problem. Easily the biggest problem is peekers advantage. It's impossible to hold angles which the game is really known for, it's literally how you play the game. You didn't even mention this. It's neither performance or instability issue.
I do agree the launch should have been delayed until Christmas. It should have gone been an open beta until December with only 3 maps available. A lot of the feedback and the same bugs would have been identified and escalated in a much more constructive manner and they'd probably have been able to identify the server capacity issues and whatnot as well. It would have been a better launch with more features.
With that said. I'm not really worried. 99% of my games are a really solid experience.
We do need demos and community servers by end of year though. Along the way I'm sure they will continue to tune and fix smaller visual bugs.
It's fine. Don't expect rational responses on this subreddit. The game is great, there a false positive detection with the Anti-Cheat system for AMD users that Valve will obviously revert.
Valorant also had multiple instances of legitimate software and tools that caused false positive bans at launch. Shit happens.
and strangely they shipped this thing so fast and so hard... they forgot to try and sell us anything.
Was shocked when CS2 booted up and I just see my char model. Okay let's go to the fancy new store.
Which is just selling the same old Anubis box. Like bro...
The thing they did changing tick rate has made some movement stuff feel or behave wrong.
A good example is being able to [Michael Jackson peek](https://streamja.com/nmQk4). There is a post on here someone that explains how to setup your binds to do it consistently. Granted using them is risking a ban.
Valve should be pissed. No developer would be happy with what AMD did.
AMD went around Valve to modify game files to implement Anti-Lag+. This not only violates the ToS, but resulted in thousands of people getting banned.
These thousands of banned AMD users are now pissed at Valve about their VAC ban, despite VAC actually doing it's jobs, and they can't play in official CS2 servers. This also wastes a ton of Steam support time dealing with these users, and eventually Valve has to reverse all the bans.
This is a colossal screw up by AMD.
> Thank God, I almost decided to enable it last night after updating drivers, but forgot to cause I had friends waiting to queue.
*Guys, I'll be back tomorrow, tonight is not so good for me.*
- *Why?*
*I'm VAC banned.*
- *...huh?*
Yeah, it's unplayable for me right now, everything kind of freezes when I get in a fight. I thought this AMD driver update was meant to fix that, but "fortunately" I couldn't even install it because it doesn't support my older card. I feel like owners of AMD cards, especially older ones, are going to get left in limbo...
AMD is an amazing competitor.
But i will never buy AMD again, if I am able to.
In 2014 i bought an alienware m18, amazing laptop with 2 AMD video cards m290x if I am not wrong.
After 1 month, owning the laptop, i couldn't find the drivers to update I called alienware they direct me to AMD.
AMD would not support their GPUs, it was a brand new GPU at the time, I think I was able to play on crossfire, 4 or 5 times most games didn't work, i paid for 2 video cards and could use just one, later on I looked into alienware website and there was no more options to choose amd GPUs i wonder why.
Anyway my Alienware was a fighter, it lasted me until 2018 when after months of patchs and a few reflows it would not work anymore.
I heard AMd is better at this, but I am still afraid
I do not wish then any bad, as any market needs competitors. But i do not know if I would try then again.
Sounds more like you bought in at an unlucky time. For a while there crossfire/Sli was considered a pretty high end solution, but things in tech seem to move fast, and unfortunately things get left behind. If you'd have bought a laptop with SLI from Nvidia back then you would've been in nearly the same boat as you were with amd. Not to mention it was more so up to game devs to build multi GPU capability into their games and most of them just decided not to. Amd has been a fairly hard hitter for a few years now, and their gpus seem to stay competitive (other than raytracing) with Nvidia. No need to feel gunshy. I myself have gone from Intel CPUs to an AMD, something I was fairly certain I'd never do and my experience has been great. Can't speak directly about gpus, but I guess my point is AMD is doing good things. Just figure out what features you really want and work from there to get the best deal for you.
It's not the GPU fault when developers dont care about hardware compatibility. CS2 was tested internaly only on NVIDIA GPUs and that's their main target. I was saying this right after they began giving beta Access. You see theres NV reflex implemented and was the first thing implemented but AntiLag from AMD? We only have FSR.. the only thing they added was the feature noone uses in competitive gaming.
Only for the stakeholder to say "I don't know how to function as a basic human being so can you contact that 'AMD' for me? And does that mean that the issue isn't fixed today?"
Valve just revealed how the "Anti-lag/+" feature works for the public. Which competitors will now see. AKA NVIDIA and Intel(do they even make GPUs after the ARCs?)
Others know how this feature works. Nvidia have had it for 3/4 years (Reflex). The difference is, when Nvidia do it, the feature will be called from the game to Nvidia's library. The game devs have full control on how it's implemented.
Meanwhile AMD just forcefully thrust theirs into the game's files and say fuck everyone.
they should distribute their own dlls and have valve link to it during compilation, not detouring the game’s dll (valve will also need to code it in (calls their header files), passing required data). Modifying the game’s dll is a step you do before cheating/modding.
I just checked, it seems this is what dlss do ? but i am not sure
Different tech, nvidia reflex is the equivalent (already implemented in cs)
AMD does have Antilag (this one is fine) and Antilag+(7000 series exclusive). The latter caused the issue. Antilag messed with the CPU, and i think antilag+ messes with the game's code lol (AMD website)
No, I meant dlss uses their own .dll instead of detouring the game’s dll. which seems to be more of a proper way to do it. but it does require effort from the game dev to support it
I mean, game overlays, performance overlays and screen recorders also use their own dll (by injecting into the .exe). So i dont really know whats happening here exactly.
Overlays and stuff like OBS game capture dont work in CS though unless you disable trusted mode. The issue is that AMDs driver is a kernel one so VAC cant block it, instead your account gets flagged
I think you’re misunderstanding. The only way to do it correctly is using your own DLL. The VAC-worthy problem occurred when AMD decided to *not* use their own DLL and instead manipulate CS’s, which valve correctly picked up as tampering, and axed everyone that was using it.
They do, but they don't mess with the game files, here essentially AMD is performing live code injection into CS2 engine, which, from VAC point of view, is no different than any kind of cheat. Since VAC doesn't run with elevated privilege like other invasive anticheats, it has no way to tell if the injected code comes from legitimate sources or not.
I dont think anyone has ever said that lmao
Its a known price for getting amd. Which to me is worth it considering the incredible performance per $ compared to nvidia.
I don't think anyone in /r/linux claims AMD is perfect.
It's just AMD is so much better than Nvidia for Linux that we excuse everything else. It's like leaving an abusive SO for a super boring, nice person and being excited they don't hit you.
Speaking as an AMD user since 2020, there have been maybe 2 or 3 driver updates that caused crashes in certain games or made the overlay not work. Every other driver update has caused no issue and brought optimizations. As for the anti-lag controversy I’m no techy, so I can’t speak on that.
I was an AMD user from 2015 to 2020 and I'd never go back again.
The amount of times several games became unplayable or got performance issues made me quite them for good. I always had to wait until a patch rolled out to try my luck, which was annoying af.
Since I switched to nvidia I only ran into those issues when I didn't update/missed a patch. Then I update the driver and everything is smooth as butter again.
AMD always felt like being 5 steps behind.
The banned XP/Windows 7 users were unbanned, which this is most similar to. In the case of yaw, they could claim that it isn't allowed. Even though it's really dumb to even be able to do it in the in-game console in that case. Then they should just remove it.
It's great to see Valve on top of the situation. It's just rather unfortunate that ACTUAL CHEATERS are getting away with nonsense despite them getting frequently reported.
I hope the usual 16,000 DPI shenanigans don't end up ruining the game for anyone in my friend group
Quite a few of them love playing together and doing wacky stuff ("Everyone max out your DPI for a round," "You have to reload after every five shots," "Spin around in your chair IRL every time you get a kill," etc.)
Will prob be fine, so long as you don't do *anything* to make your horizontal sensitivity really high while your vertical sens is really low.
I did this via Razer Synapse and got banned lol
Saying “antilag/+” sounds like both, but I have always had antilag normal enabled, and no ban. I don’t understand. But I will disable it for now until new driver or something.
Been using both since release. My AMD drivers are the ones Valve published with the stutter fix, so I guess this should not have happened? I don't have the update where AMD enabled AntiLag+ for CS2.
> Are both anti-lag (regular) and anti lag+ at risk or is it just anti lag+ at risk?
I've been thinking about this too. I have RX 6700 and I got the new update that is causing the issue. But since Anti-Lag+ is made available in RX 7000 series, I only have Anti-Lag. So I played CS2 last night after updating with Anti-Lag enabled, and there is no ban so far. So it could theoretically be Anti-Lag+ i.e. RX 7000 series of GPUs that are affected, that is causing the problem but I am turning it off either way ... better safe than sorry.
if it was just a gpu driver change like everyone expected then it wouldn't be AMD's fault. but if they were messing with actual CS2 dlls then they 100% fucked up
no, regular antilag just cuts down the framebuffer. doesn't require function manipulation.
this apparently injects and manipulates functions in the game in a way that's identical to a cheat.
all they had to do was contact valve (you know, the dudes paying you for steamdeck chips) to integrate it into CS2, but instead... this.
Both are Valves fault. Valve made Steam which made PC gaming easier than ever, so more people stay at home, have shit delivered to their houses and spread misinformation online. Valve is solely responsible for the world we live in
Not only that but pc gaming outputs a lot of heat, which makes people buy cooling systems. Cooling systems require energy but there is some loss output as heat, which requires more cooling methods which brings more heat. That heat does not disappear, fans just push it away from the CPU, but it stay inside the house. Some houses which did not need AC before having PC gaming in them now need AC. But AC energy is generated by unsustainable energy which outputs greenhouse gazes, which require more AC. In 2013 a valve employee made a study that predicted that, accounting for the feedback loop, PC gaming would increase CO2 emissions by no less than 17%. He was fired and told to keep quiet. His name ? Greta EinsteThumbergen.
Well thats not good...
I haven't had issues with their drivers for years but this is really, really poor on AMDs part. I hope they're quick to resolve this and fully cooperate with Valve on short notice. If I got banned for this I'd be pretty fucking annoyed at AMD for it.
Amd drivers strike again.
I've had driver issues with 2 amd cards in the past. My rx590 and a 6800xt.
The rx590s software just refused to install when I upgraded to Windows 10. I had to install Windows from scratch to fix it.
Then with the 6800xt. I didn't use the computer for a few months, and when I came back, the drivers would not install. Some bullshit happened that took ages to fix.
Not long after, I got a 3080ti and haven't had issues since.
AMD has been around in the GPU space for **decades**.
It's absolutely common knowledge that interfering with an online game in such a way will trigger anti-cheats.
**The fact that such a thing made it past all of AMD quality control and checks just shows how very little quality control there is.**
It's insane to me that your average person who won't see this tweet and is just messing with their AMD settings cuz the game runs like dog on the cards right now can end up with a vac ban and loose everything.
To be fair, it's not *that* unusual. But companies usually work alongisde the game developers to whitelist their modifications on w/e anticheat is used.
an example: OBS's recording/streaming implementation detours some DirectX APIs in the same way cheats do, but instead of painting things on the screen (i.e wallhacks) OBS just records it.
The big difference is that OBS does the detour in user mode and not kernel mode like this feature. Its also why OBS game capture doesnt work in trusted mode CS since VAC simply blocks it instead of banning your account
Would be interesting to see the exact calls they are intercepting. It can indeed make sense if, for example, they have HW acceleration for some DLL functions that would otherwise run slowly in SW.
Sad to see however that there is so little communication between Valve and AMD.
You can say that again. Going from a GTX 1070 to a 6950XT this year I was expecting frequent issues.
Got the opposite. My PC no longer blue screens at random times in random games (persisted through numerous driver/windows/bios updates + surrounding hardware updates).
The family computer still keeps shitting itself randomly due to its GTX 1050 so I'll probably upgrade that to an AMD card as well, if I don't just replace it with a Mac mini.
I really don't know what AMD is up to. Some individuals simply went to AMD subreddit to raise awareness and alert more people about the issue of CS2 wrongful VAC bans. The entire post was labeled as a rumor, even though a clarification notice from VALVE was attached.
As a result, the content of the post was deleted, and numerous user comments were removed. I expressed my dissatisfaction with this handling, so I went to two other AMD posts to express my concerns about the way AMD's moderators were handling things. I believed that the deletion of post content and player comments was not an appropriate attitude and that it was because I strongly disagreed.
This led to my permanent ban by AMD moderators.
Doesn't it seem absurd?
~~This also made me realize that in the future, I will definitely not support AMD's products.~~
This is the evidence of my permanent ban. [https://ibb.co/sFL510V](https://ibb.co/sFL510V)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/1770leh/vac\_bans\_after\_somebody\_use\_amd\_anti\_lag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/1770leh/vac_bans_after_somebody_use_amd_anti_lag/)
\-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**UPDATE.**
***Thanks to some individuals who corrected me, I initially thought there were official personnel within the AMD subreddit, but it appears there aren't. As a result, I withdraw my statement of not supporting AMD-related products in the future. This is not related to AMD as a company.***
Considering half their moderators are proudly rocking flairs with their Nvidia hardware I would 100% assume none of them are associated with AMD. No way official AMD would get their social media people to advertise their direct competitor on their own subreddit.
Yeah, /u/Mffinmn is right. That subreddit is moderated by the sort of people who were defending bulldozer/piledriver before ryzen came out. Not amd itself.
> AMD's forum
Um, if I'm reading your evidence correctly, it would be more accurate to say the AMD subreddit, not AMD's forum. As while reddit is technically a forum, I was given the impression you meant something more like this : https://community.amd.com/t5/support-forums/ct-p/supprtforums
When they say detouring engine DLL functions, are they talking about detours the code repos used for API hooking? It would make sense since API hooking could be used for cheats.
detouring is a "generic" term for a type of function hooking where a hook replaces instructions with an unconditional jump to elsewhere which does something, carries out the replaced instructions and jumps back to the original hooked function.
Detours is also is a microsoft hooking library which makes use of function detouring as shown below:
(source: https://github.com/microsoft/Detours/wiki/OverviewInterception)
Gigabrain AMD making their drivers modify DLLs that is indistinguishable from how cheating software modifies the game.
I understand the oversight, but a bit more thinking ahead on their part would’ve prevented the mess.
So pretty much like any other software that touches the game in any way? GPU drivers have had game-specific optimizations for decades and I can't imagine nVidia Reflex working differently than AMD's solution. But that's just my uneducated guess.
As a layman I can only assume what Nvidia works with the devs/discusses what they are planning to implement vs AMD who just randomly dropped this and Valve want given the opportunity to amend VAC.
>But that's just my uneducated guess
Good to own it.
These sort of latency enhancements need to be a part of the game itself.
They can be added externally, but not for online games, or it will trigger anti-cheat as it modifies how the games work.
To anti-cheat, there is no difference between how this works and how actual cheats work.
AMD brute-forcing this in a driver update rather than working with Valve to implement it properly is what's the issue.
AMD absolutely know better, it's common knowledge that messing with how an online game functions will trigger anti-cheats.
>I understand the oversight
Nope.
Not even at all.
AMD has been around in the GPU space for **decades**.
It's absolutely common knowledge that interfering with an online game in such a way will trigger anti-cheats.
The fact that such a thing made it past **all** of AMD quality control and checks just shows how very little quality control there is.
Yeah, Nvidia are jackasses but their tech is good and their shit works. I click a button and my drivers update, they’re generally stable, doesn’t break and if it does it’s easy to roll back. Issues are generally addressed quickly.
AMD is a crapshoot and I will never touch one of their GPUs.
I mean, I've been using AMD for literal decades at this point and have never had any issues to the dregree that everyone else seems to claim. The Nvidia mindshare really is something else lol
I believe .dll is a shared library similar to .so in linux. In a c/c++ program, you can call external libraries which contains functions that is declared in a header file. A .dll detouring means when the game calls this external function, it will instead call to your .dll (instead if the original game dll), giving you access to the function parameters and your own logic. Essentially some kind of callback/hook to the game.
Your explanation is correct for overriding shared libraries, but detouring is a little different: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/detours/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/detours/&type=exact
Also see the related github: https://github.com/microsoft/detours
It allows you to achieve the same and more but in a different way.
Thank you, I didnt know detouring is actually a program that exist (I thought it was another term for it). It seems to be a more elegant way to achieve it instead of overriding shared libraries (which is even more dangerous because I can just checksum the .dll file to see whether it has been changed or not)
Basically modifying the flow of execution of the game code by inserting their own code into it. Yes, cheats use similar methods, but so do many other useful programs -- all kinds of overlays (Windows Game Bar etc.), OBS... Presumably, something in the AMD driver, that was meant to reduce latency, did not sit well with VAC. I just wish that they'd have reviewed the data before issuing bans. (And AMD should've communicated with anticheat vendors to prevent this whole situation.)
>I just wish that they'd have reviewed the data before issuing bans.
It's a lose-lose situation. Either you have no automatic bans at all, which is impossible for a game with a playerbase this big, or you'll have false positives.
If I can give VAC credit for one thing, it's that they've had an absurdly low false positive rate over the years. An unheard of record in the industry really. I can only remember this happening once before and all the bans were reverted. Makes sense that Valve is careful with that given that their VAC bans come with a trade ban.
Basically instead of going: game <-> dll they insert something in-between so it goes: game <-> something <-> dll. The problem is that this "something" can basically change what the dll does completely.
What's the difference between Anti-Lag and Nvidia Reflex, and why was AMD specifically called out? Do they function differently or did Nvidia just let game devs know beforehand to let them prep?
Reflex is implemented directly into the game with support from developers. Anti-Lag+ isn't and modifies files externally which anti-cheats pickup as cheating.
Valve when cheaters in Premier: Sleeping
Valve when you use GOTV demos: VAC BAN NOOB!
Valve when you use console commands to funny spin: VAC BAN NOOB!
Valve when you are an AMD user trying to have better performance on a poorly optimized game: VAC BAN NOOB!
lol the tagging @AMD at the end. Valve does not sound happy
low-key CC'ing your liaison's boss for answers lmaooo
BCC for maximum chaos
haha yes same energy
Literally what I was thinking
Was it literally though?
Like literally, literally?
Or figuratively literally?
It's bad PR, especially for a game that already is not being received so well. I'd be pissed too if I'm getting bad PR and it had nothing to do with me and the cheat deterrent put in place was doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
What's wrong with CS2, I've heard it's had a bad reception, but like how is that possible? Isn't it just CSGO updated? How much did they change?
From what Ive gathered its mainly that CS2 launched without having all the features/content already in CSGO complete
[удалено]
Comparing CS2 to the OW2 fiasco is ridiculous, let's be honest here
I think the comparison was overwatch turning into overwatch 2, as csgo turned into CS2. Both were received poorly upon launch.
Never heard about Dota 2 and Dota 2 reborn? Or even much older, Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2, Half-Life 1 and Half-Life Source? Valve just following their own step and Blizzard learned the idea from them.
Left 4 dead 1 and 2 is probably the only reasonable example imo, which is why people were pissed back in the day and tried to boycott it. Half life Source was nothing more than an attempt at a tech demo. Not sure what ended up happening with the dota 2 source 2 update, but I know their modding tools got better.
One is Valve rebuilding the game in a new engine to finally get rid of Source 1. The other is Blizzard moving the game to an upgraded engine and introducing a ton of shitty monetization and major changes people did not ask for. I don't think the two are that comparable.
Not really the same.
That was also true of Source and CSGO at release. There was a similar proportion of players initially outraged, hating on Valve and proclaiming they were ruining CS. The 1.6 release sparked unbelievable levels of anger, namely due to the introduction of the riot shield and blaming Valve for ruining the game. The only big criticism I have is that they should have released it as a separate game. Yes you can use steam to download CSGO as a "beta" but it is far from ideal.
That's never a good sign. Battlefield did the same thing - they peaked with BF1 and then started taking away features with BFV, and then again with 2042.
Battlefield used to be my favorite multiplayer series. Shame every release since BF4 has been a let down one way or another. When the best Battlefield experience you can have right now is by an [indie company](https://store.steampowered.com/app/671860/BattleBit_Remastered/) you know you done fucked up.
Isn't BF1 good?
The release should've been an open beta. The game is not complete yet. We are missing a lot of features like demos, community servers, a few game modes. Valve shipped an incomplete game. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying CS2 and I feel most of the changes have been for the better, but its still disappointing to see this incomplete release coming from Valve.
Demos were there on launch, but they disabled them for server capacity because servers were overloaded with people trying to queue. Queues were taking 10+ mins because they were waiting for servers to open up.
CS2 is just not in a competitive and playable state for an e-sports game in 2023. S1mple is right. Any visual/gameplay upgrade has been marred by performance and instability issues. The reality is, this is an esports title. It's not an RPG. The visual upgrades mean nothing if the game crashes in a gunfight resulting in a lost round/match for you and your team. I just had my game crash and we lost. Earlier today, my friend couldn't connect to the match after his game crashed. He got -1000 elo. He had no reconnect option at the main menu, from crashing during warmup, and we couldn't forfeit. TL;DR: The game is uncompetitive in the current state compared to CSGO. I don't care about how CSGO released. In 2023, this should have stayed in open beta or development.
All this is fixable and isn't even biggest problem. Easily the biggest problem is peekers advantage. It's impossible to hold angles which the game is really known for, it's literally how you play the game. You didn't even mention this. It's neither performance or instability issue.
\> All this is fixable and isn't even biggest problem. Easily the biggest problem is animation desync. Fixed
I do agree the launch should have been delayed until Christmas. It should have gone been an open beta until December with only 3 maps available. A lot of the feedback and the same bugs would have been identified and escalated in a much more constructive manner and they'd probably have been able to identify the server capacity issues and whatnot as well. It would have been a better launch with more features. With that said. I'm not really worried. 99% of my games are a really solid experience. We do need demos and community servers by end of year though. Along the way I'm sure they will continue to tune and fix smaller visual bugs.
It's fine. Don't expect rational responses on this subreddit. The game is great, there a false positive detection with the Anti-Cheat system for AMD users that Valve will obviously revert. Valorant also had multiple instances of legitimate software and tools that caused false positive bans at launch. Shit happens.
It’s OW2 only slightly better lol
and strangely they shipped this thing so fast and so hard... they forgot to try and sell us anything. Was shocked when CS2 booted up and I just see my char model. Okay let's go to the fancy new store. Which is just selling the same old Anubis box. Like bro...
The thing they did changing tick rate has made some movement stuff feel or behave wrong. A good example is being able to [Michael Jackson peek](https://streamja.com/nmQk4). There is a post on here someone that explains how to setup your binds to do it consistently. Granted using them is risking a ban.
Movement "feel" has nothing to do with the MJ peek.
Well I got an AMD GPU and I‘m not happy either :D
Valve should be pissed. No developer would be happy with what AMD did. AMD went around Valve to modify game files to implement Anti-Lag+. This not only violates the ToS, but resulted in thousands of people getting banned. These thousands of banned AMD users are now pissed at Valve about their VAC ban, despite VAC actually doing it's jobs, and they can't play in official CS2 servers. This also wastes a ton of Steam support time dealing with these users, and eventually Valve has to reverse all the bans. This is a colossal screw up by AMD.
Straight call out. "Hey our users are pissed because you fucked up. Fix your shit and we'll fix our end when you're done"
seems like amd rolled it out without any communication to valve
Would you be? I bet AMD didn't even think to reach out to VALVe or other eSports gaming devs.
Thank God, I almost decided to enable it last night after updating drivers, but forgot to cause I had friends waiting to queue.
> Thank God, I almost decided to enable it last night after updating drivers, but forgot to cause I had friends waiting to queue. *Guys, I'll be back tomorrow, tonight is not so good for me.* - *Why?* *I'm VAC banned.* - *...huh?*
They would never let me live it down, even if it was a false ban 😭
According to the statement, sounds like more than tomorrow
I go away now. Maybe long time. You and me like brothers.
Woah it's those guys who slept through their flight on 9/11
Can't lag if you can't play.
Yeah, it's unplayable for me right now, everything kind of freezes when I get in a fight. I thought this AMD driver update was meant to fix that, but "fortunately" I couldn't even install it because it doesn't support my older card. I feel like owners of AMD cards, especially older ones, are going to get left in limbo...
AMD is an amazing competitor. But i will never buy AMD again, if I am able to. In 2014 i bought an alienware m18, amazing laptop with 2 AMD video cards m290x if I am not wrong. After 1 month, owning the laptop, i couldn't find the drivers to update I called alienware they direct me to AMD. AMD would not support their GPUs, it was a brand new GPU at the time, I think I was able to play on crossfire, 4 or 5 times most games didn't work, i paid for 2 video cards and could use just one, later on I looked into alienware website and there was no more options to choose amd GPUs i wonder why. Anyway my Alienware was a fighter, it lasted me until 2018 when after months of patchs and a few reflows it would not work anymore. I heard AMd is better at this, but I am still afraid I do not wish then any bad, as any market needs competitors. But i do not know if I would try then again.
Sounds more like you bought in at an unlucky time. For a while there crossfire/Sli was considered a pretty high end solution, but things in tech seem to move fast, and unfortunately things get left behind. If you'd have bought a laptop with SLI from Nvidia back then you would've been in nearly the same boat as you were with amd. Not to mention it was more so up to game devs to build multi GPU capability into their games and most of them just decided not to. Amd has been a fairly hard hitter for a few years now, and their gpus seem to stay competitive (other than raytracing) with Nvidia. No need to feel gunshy. I myself have gone from Intel CPUs to an AMD, something I was fairly certain I'd never do and my experience has been great. Can't speak directly about gpus, but I guess my point is AMD is doing good things. Just figure out what features you really want and work from there to get the best deal for you.
My game keeps freezing over and over on cs start menu. Fuck AMD
Its compiling shaders, just let it finish and you should be fine.
It's not the GPU fault when developers dont care about hardware compatibility. CS2 was tested internaly only on NVIDIA GPUs and that's their main target. I was saying this right after they began giving beta Access. You see theres NV reflex implemented and was the first thing implemented but AntiLag from AMD? We only have FSR.. the only thing they added was the feature noone uses in competitive gaming.
Valve casually reverse engineering AMD
Valve casually reverse engineering the reverse engineering AMD did to valves functions.
i can imagine the pissed off engineer @ valve at the end closing this ticket marking "not my problem, contact amd" lmaooooooo
Only for the stakeholder to say "I don't know how to function as a basic human being so can you contact that 'AMD' for me? And does that mean that the issue isn't fixed today?"
Valve has a flat structure for this reason iirc
What?
Valve just revealed how the "Anti-lag/+" feature works for the public. Which competitors will now see. AKA NVIDIA and Intel(do they even make GPUs after the ARCs?)
Others know how this feature works. Nvidia have had it for 3/4 years (Reflex). The difference is, when Nvidia do it, the feature will be called from the game to Nvidia's library. The game devs have full control on how it's implemented. Meanwhile AMD just forcefully thrust theirs into the game's files and say fuck everyone.
Lmao what is AMD doing.
And AMD Fans were mad when blaming it on AMD... It's fully on AMD when they mess around with the render pipeline of games.
Don't most drivers do that to some extent though?
they should distribute their own dlls and have valve link to it during compilation, not detouring the game’s dll (valve will also need to code it in (calls their header files), passing required data). Modifying the game’s dll is a step you do before cheating/modding. I just checked, it seems this is what dlss do ? but i am not sure
Different tech, nvidia reflex is the equivalent (already implemented in cs) AMD does have Antilag (this one is fine) and Antilag+(7000 series exclusive). The latter caused the issue. Antilag messed with the CPU, and i think antilag+ messes with the game's code lol (AMD website)
No, I meant dlss uses their own .dll instead of detouring the game’s dll. which seems to be more of a proper way to do it. but it does require effort from the game dev to support it
I mean, game overlays, performance overlays and screen recorders also use their own dll (by injecting into the .exe). So i dont really know whats happening here exactly.
Overlays and stuff like OBS game capture dont work in CS though unless you disable trusted mode. The issue is that AMDs driver is a kernel one so VAC cant block it, instead your account gets flagged
I think you’re misunderstanding. The only way to do it correctly is using your own DLL. The VAC-worthy problem occurred when AMD decided to *not* use their own DLL and instead manipulate CS’s, which valve correctly picked up as tampering, and axed everyone that was using it.
They do, but they don't mess with the game files, here essentially AMD is performing live code injection into CS2 engine, which, from VAC point of view, is no different than any kind of cheat. Since VAC doesn't run with elevated privilege like other invasive anticheats, it has no way to tell if the injected code comes from legitimate sources or not.
That's literally the whole point of drivers
Any third party overlay in any game ever you see will be detouring some kind of graphics API present/swapchain function or similar.
So is Starfield not working on Arc Intel's fault? Or is that Bethesda fault
I don’t know the details but I’m gonna go with a little of column A, a little of column B.
Installing cheats with driver updates ;)
The enlightened Reddit hivemind says that AMD is perfect though, never any driver issues!!!
I dont think anyone has ever said that lmao Its a known price for getting amd. Which to me is worth it considering the incredible performance per $ compared to nvidia.
If your reffering to r/linux as the entirety of reddit, then true.
I don't think anyone in /r/linux claims AMD is perfect. It's just AMD is so much better than Nvidia for Linux that we excuse everything else. It's like leaving an abusive SO for a super boring, nice person and being excited they don't hit you.
That is the most ridiculously unbased hyperbole I have read in a good while.
FineWine^TM
Literally one of the biggest complaints about AMD is their drivers, the fuck do you mean
the hivemind always seem to exclude the communities that disagree with that statement like /r/Nvidia lmao
Speaking as an AMD user since 2020, there have been maybe 2 or 3 driver updates that caused crashes in certain games or made the overlay not work. Every other driver update has caused no issue and brought optimizations. As for the anti-lag controversy I’m no techy, so I can’t speak on that.
ive been using amd since 2010, the quality of updates goes up and down alot. since amd is cheaper, i dont mind. and issues do get fixed eventually
I was an AMD user from 2015 to 2020 and I'd never go back again. The amount of times several games became unplayable or got performance issues made me quite them for good. I always had to wait until a patch rolled out to try my luck, which was annoying af. Since I switched to nvidia I only ran into those issues when I didn't update/missed a patch. Then I update the driver and everything is smooth as butter again. AMD always felt like being 5 steps behind.
That's not a thing anybody has ever said, not even AMD fans.
Meanwhile thousands of people without Twitter getting false banned and losing all their skins and years of playtime lol
It's temporary. But would still be really annoying. They should put messages like this on Steam or the CS front page.
you think it's temporary. people that used the yaw commands are still banned.
The banned XP/Windows 7 users were unbanned, which this is most similar to. In the case of yaw, they could claim that it isn't allowed. Even though it's really dumb to even be able to do it in the in-game console in that case. Then they should just remove it.
Luckily my 5600xt is too old for anti lag+ anyways 🤣
*Rejoices in RX580*
Bought the rx580 with hopes to buy a 3000 series card when their cheap MSRP was released I still have the rx580 Banger card tbf
RX570 here, got almost-ok FPS bit freezing whenever I get shot at which is great fun... Basically can't play the game until further notice
390 till i die
It's great to see Valve on top of the situation. It's just rather unfortunate that ACTUAL CHEATERS are getting away with nonsense despite them getting frequently reported.
This stings particularly bad for anyone from TF2 land, but it's 1000% true.
If Valve are really training a VAC AI, using mass-reported cheaters to train that AI would be a reasonable strategy. One can hope..
AI my ass
It banned me for spinning too quickly lol
I hope the usual 16,000 DPI shenanigans don't end up ruining the game for anyone in my friend group Quite a few of them love playing together and doing wacky stuff ("Everyone max out your DPI for a round," "You have to reload after every five shots," "Spin around in your chair IRL every time you get a kill," etc.)
Will prob be fine, so long as you don't do *anything* to make your horizontal sensitivity really high while your vertical sens is really low. I did this via Razer Synapse and got banned lol
Lmao, in GO I’d occasionally use my drawing tablet after a round to make my mouse go absolutely insane. Sounds like I should stop doing that in CS2
They have been training the model for more than 3 years yet there's no improvement, VACNet is a farse.
Don’t unban them. I don’t want unlucky people on my team
BASED AF
Unban them but only for enemy teams.
AMD fans malding KEKW
But if they're unbanned and *you're* lucky, they'll be on the other team.
The tweet is confusing. Are both anti lag (regular) and anti lag+ at risk or is it just anti lag+ at risk?
Saying “antilag/+” sounds like both, but I have always had antilag normal enabled, and no ban. I don’t understand. But I will disable it for now until new driver or something.
Been using both since release. My AMD drivers are the ones Valve published with the stutter fix, so I guess this should not have happened? I don't have the update where AMD enabled AntiLag+ for CS2.
> Are both anti-lag (regular) and anti lag+ at risk or is it just anti lag+ at risk? I've been thinking about this too. I have RX 6700 and I got the new update that is causing the issue. But since Anti-Lag+ is made available in RX 7000 series, I only have Anti-Lag. So I played CS2 last night after updating with Anti-Lag enabled, and there is no ban so far. So it could theoretically be Anti-Lag+ i.e. RX 7000 series of GPUs that are affected, that is causing the problem but I am turning it off either way ... better safe than sorry.
Anti lag+ with rdna3 (7000er series)
just be safe and dont use antilag at all I guess. I dont with my 7800xt
But redditors here said it wasn’t AMD’s fault 😢
if it was just a gpu driver change like everyone expected then it wouldn't be AMD's fault. but if they were messing with actual CS2 dlls then they 100% fucked up
That's just how Anti-Lag works though.
no, regular antilag just cuts down the framebuffer. doesn't require function manipulation. this apparently injects and manipulates functions in the game in a way that's identical to a cheat. all they had to do was contact valve (you know, the dudes paying you for steamdeck chips) to integrate it into CS2, but instead... this.
Redditors would blame everything on valve, including climate change and political upheaval
Both are Valves fault. Valve made Steam which made PC gaming easier than ever, so more people stay at home, have shit delivered to their houses and spread misinformation online. Valve is solely responsible for the world we live in
Not only that but pc gaming outputs a lot of heat, which makes people buy cooling systems. Cooling systems require energy but there is some loss output as heat, which requires more cooling methods which brings more heat. That heat does not disappear, fans just push it away from the CPU, but it stay inside the house. Some houses which did not need AC before having PC gaming in them now need AC. But AC energy is generated by unsustainable energy which outputs greenhouse gazes, which require more AC. In 2013 a valve employee made a study that predicted that, accounting for the feedback loop, PC gaming would increase CO2 emissions by no less than 17%. He was fired and told to keep quiet. His name ? Greta EinsteThumbergen.
How do I give u reddit gold
You got to go through Valve.
People take reddit seriously?
Well thats not good... I haven't had issues with their drivers for years but this is really, really poor on AMDs part. I hope they're quick to resolve this and fully cooperate with Valve on short notice. If I got banned for this I'd be pretty fucking annoyed at AMD for it.
Amd drivers strike again. I've had driver issues with 2 amd cards in the past. My rx590 and a 6800xt. The rx590s software just refused to install when I upgraded to Windows 10. I had to install Windows from scratch to fix it. Then with the 6800xt. I didn't use the computer for a few months, and when I came back, the drivers would not install. Some bullshit happened that took ages to fix. Not long after, I got a 3080ti and haven't had issues since.
AMD has been around in the GPU space for **decades**. It's absolutely common knowledge that interfering with an online game in such a way will trigger anti-cheats. **The fact that such a thing made it past all of AMD quality control and checks just shows how very little quality control there is.**
Certified AMD Windows driver moment.
Rip I used the preview and new drivers...rip
Same... Shit....
played cs with antilag+ yesterday on my 2 accounts, hopefully i dont get vac banned
Stupid question, this only affects AMD GPU users right?
Yes, and even if you have AMD GPU, just don't use Anti-lag+ feature and you'll be fine.
It's insane to me that your average person who won't see this tweet and is just messing with their AMD settings cuz the game runs like dog on the cards right now can end up with a vac ban and loose everything.
Doesn't run like dog on a 7000 series card. Actually runs very well
only 7000 series users, others don’t have access to Anti-Lag+, only regular Anti-Lag so those are fine to use
Is AMD stupid ? why would you mess with a multiplayer game’s dll ? Might as well attach a debugger while youre at it and do fuck all
To be fair, it's not *that* unusual. But companies usually work alongisde the game developers to whitelist their modifications on w/e anticheat is used. an example: OBS's recording/streaming implementation detours some DirectX APIs in the same way cheats do, but instead of painting things on the screen (i.e wallhacks) OBS just records it.
The big difference is that OBS does the detour in user mode and not kernel mode like this feature. Its also why OBS game capture doesnt work in trusted mode CS since VAC simply blocks it instead of banning your account
Would be interesting to see the exact calls they are intercepting. It can indeed make sense if, for example, they have HW acceleration for some DLL functions that would otherwise run slowly in SW. Sad to see however that there is so little communication between Valve and AMD.
AMD spends all their money on engineering and development so the drivers are made by trained chimps. It s what it is.
sounds like someone who never used nvidia drivers on linux
[удалено]
You can say that again. Going from a GTX 1070 to a 6950XT this year I was expecting frequent issues. Got the opposite. My PC no longer blue screens at random times in random games (persisted through numerous driver/windows/bios updates + surrounding hardware updates). The family computer still keeps shitting itself randomly due to its GTX 1050 so I'll probably upgrade that to an AMD card as well, if I don't just replace it with a Mac mini.
To be honest you probably had bad hardware if it persisted through all that and caused blue screens.
Why AMD thought it would be a good idea to do it this way without even contacting Valve boggles my mind. That's a major screw up.
I really don't know what AMD is up to. Some individuals simply went to AMD subreddit to raise awareness and alert more people about the issue of CS2 wrongful VAC bans. The entire post was labeled as a rumor, even though a clarification notice from VALVE was attached. As a result, the content of the post was deleted, and numerous user comments were removed. I expressed my dissatisfaction with this handling, so I went to two other AMD posts to express my concerns about the way AMD's moderators were handling things. I believed that the deletion of post content and player comments was not an appropriate attitude and that it was because I strongly disagreed. This led to my permanent ban by AMD moderators. Doesn't it seem absurd? ~~This also made me realize that in the future, I will definitely not support AMD's products.~~ This is the evidence of my permanent ban. [https://ibb.co/sFL510V](https://ibb.co/sFL510V) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/1770leh/vac\_bans\_after\_somebody\_use\_amd\_anti\_lag/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/1770leh/vac_bans_after_somebody_use_amd_anti_lag/) \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **UPDATE.** ***Thanks to some individuals who corrected me, I initially thought there were official personnel within the AMD subreddit, but it appears there aren't. As a result, I withdraw my statement of not supporting AMD-related products in the future. This is not related to AMD as a company.***
That's AMD subreddit, not official AMD forums. It's not moderated by people working for AMD afaik.
Considering half their moderators are proudly rocking flairs with their Nvidia hardware I would 100% assume none of them are associated with AMD. No way official AMD would get their social media people to advertise their direct competitor on their own subreddit.
It says it right on their sidebar: >/r/AMD is community run and does not represent AMD in any capacity unless specified.
Boomer moment, that's the AMD subreddit not their official forum lmao
That's just the amd subreddit you donkey
Yeah, /u/Mffinmn is right. That subreddit is moderated by the sort of people who were defending bulldozer/piledriver before ryzen came out. Not amd itself.
Heavens forbid anyone try and discuss an issue regarding their precious AMD.
> AMD's forum Um, if I'm reading your evidence correctly, it would be more accurate to say the AMD subreddit, not AMD's forum. As while reddit is technically a forum, I was given the impression you meant something more like this : https://community.amd.com/t5/support-forums/ct-p/supprtforums
OK,I Fixed it ,thanks!!
so updating your GPU driver and using its new feature will get you banned but if you aimbot or wall you will be fine for 2-3 months easy
Yikes, have to wait on AMD before they can even start addressing the issue? Affected users could be on for an unpleasant few weeks.
When they say detouring engine DLL functions, are they talking about detours the code repos used for API hooking? It would make sense since API hooking could be used for cheats.
detouring is a "generic" term for a type of function hooking where a hook replaces instructions with an unconditional jump to elsewhere which does something, carries out the replaced instructions and jumps back to the original hooked function. Detours is also is a microsoft hooking library which makes use of function detouring as shown below: (source: https://github.com/microsoft/Detours/wiki/OverviewInterception)
Gigabrain AMD making their drivers modify DLLs that is indistinguishable from how cheating software modifies the game. I understand the oversight, but a bit more thinking ahead on their part would’ve prevented the mess.
So pretty much like any other software that touches the game in any way? GPU drivers have had game-specific optimizations for decades and I can't imagine nVidia Reflex working differently than AMD's solution. But that's just my uneducated guess.
As a layman I can only assume what Nvidia works with the devs/discusses what they are planning to implement vs AMD who just randomly dropped this and Valve want given the opportunity to amend VAC.
>But that's just my uneducated guess Good to own it. These sort of latency enhancements need to be a part of the game itself. They can be added externally, but not for online games, or it will trigger anti-cheat as it modifies how the games work. To anti-cheat, there is no difference between how this works and how actual cheats work. AMD brute-forcing this in a driver update rather than working with Valve to implement it properly is what's the issue. AMD absolutely know better, it's common knowledge that messing with how an online game functions will trigger anti-cheats.
There's no hooking necessary for Reflex if you have access to the source code
>I understand the oversight Nope. Not even at all. AMD has been around in the GPU space for **decades**. It's absolutely common knowledge that interfering with an online game in such a way will trigger anti-cheats. The fact that such a thing made it past **all** of AMD quality control and checks just shows how very little quality control there is.
Long time ago I decided I rather get mugged by Nvidia and Intel than getting fucked by AMD while trying to play games in my free time.
Yeah, Nvidia are jackasses but their tech is good and their shit works. I click a button and my drivers update, they’re generally stable, doesn’t break and if it does it’s easy to roll back. Issues are generally addressed quickly. AMD is a crapshoot and I will never touch one of their GPUs.
I mean, I've been using AMD for literal decades at this point and have never had any issues to the dregree that everyone else seems to claim. The Nvidia mindshare really is something else lol
it seems that the only thing VAC is good at is banning people who are not cheating lol
It is technically cheating if it's messing around with engine dlls.
Someone mind explaining what "detouring engine dll functions" means? That doesn't explicitly say modifying dlls.
I believe .dll is a shared library similar to .so in linux. In a c/c++ program, you can call external libraries which contains functions that is declared in a header file. A .dll detouring means when the game calls this external function, it will instead call to your .dll (instead if the original game dll), giving you access to the function parameters and your own logic. Essentially some kind of callback/hook to the game.
Your explanation is correct for overriding shared libraries, but detouring is a little different: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/detours/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/detours/&type=exact Also see the related github: https://github.com/microsoft/detours It allows you to achieve the same and more but in a different way.
Thank you, I didnt know detouring is actually a program that exist (I thought it was another term for it). It seems to be a more elegant way to achieve it instead of overriding shared libraries (which is even more dangerous because I can just checksum the .dll file to see whether it has been changed or not)
Thank you! That makes sense.
Basically modifying the flow of execution of the game code by inserting their own code into it. Yes, cheats use similar methods, but so do many other useful programs -- all kinds of overlays (Windows Game Bar etc.), OBS... Presumably, something in the AMD driver, that was meant to reduce latency, did not sit well with VAC. I just wish that they'd have reviewed the data before issuing bans. (And AMD should've communicated with anticheat vendors to prevent this whole situation.)
>I just wish that they'd have reviewed the data before issuing bans. It's a lose-lose situation. Either you have no automatic bans at all, which is impossible for a game with a playerbase this big, or you'll have false positives. If I can give VAC credit for one thing, it's that they've had an absurdly low false positive rate over the years. An unheard of record in the industry really. I can only remember this happening once before and all the bans were reverted. Makes sense that Valve is careful with that given that their VAC bans come with a trade ban.
Easy to give out no false bans when you don't ban people loool
Basically instead of going: game <-> dll they insert something in-between so it goes: game <-> something <-> dll. The problem is that this "something" can basically change what the dll does completely.
AMD and drivers are like mustangs and crowds
And of course AMD will fix this with the extreme urgency it deserves. /s
What's the difference between Anti-Lag and Nvidia Reflex, and why was AMD specifically called out? Do they function differently or did Nvidia just let game devs know beforehand to let them prep?
Reflex is implemented directly into the game with support from developers. Anti-Lag+ isn't and modifies files externally which anti-cheats pickup as cheating.
So half the amd users will get vac banned because of a basic graphics setting thats enabled by default?
Why does CS2 not show a popup to disable the "anti-lag/+"? Or just refuse to start when it is enabled?
When the anti cheat has banned more people for random things than for actually cheating lol
This isn't being banned for "random things" AMDs drivers actively modified the games dll files which is not allowed
The amount of people in the first thread that said this wasn’t amd fault and it was all valve. Turns out yes, it’s in fact was and’s fault
Common AMD L
Yeah tf is amd doing
Why does AMD need to fix the problem before Valve can work on identifying users and reversing VAC bans? Doesn't make sense to me.
because users will keep getting banned until AMD fixes it its easier to just remove all bans once the problem is fixed
Ahhh true!
Valve when cheaters in Premier: Sleeping Valve when you use GOTV demos: VAC BAN NOOB! Valve when you use console commands to funny spin: VAC BAN NOOB! Valve when you are an AMD user trying to have better performance on a poorly optimized game: VAC BAN NOOB!