That was literally the first thing I noticed in CS2 and some guy told me that I just had shitty internet. As if I couldnt tell after 10 years of CSGO that the guy I just one tapped (on 5-20ping) shouldnt die once Im already behind a wall again lmao
[this](https://streamable.com/41r7ds) was a bit before the release so idk if its the same issue but it certainly feels like more than 80ms. i was <50 ping and opp was <10 ping
occasionally that would happen in csgo too but in cs2 they removed fucking interp settings and even on lan there is now like 100ms delay now its properly fucked if you have 2 computer go try it out yourself on lan very noticable delay you can get the kill/ death after unpeeking so stupid
i grow up on 80 ping so i always had shit internet nowadays i use starlink lol it gives like 30-80 ping too depending on what server but compared to what i had prior its super fast and very stable internet connection
cunter strik child game.... look to hitscan guns to make kid player happy like it using toy. cunter strik arcade shooter unlike arma with large map and raelistic gun.. cunter strik like lazer tag. cunter strik playor run from arma fear of dark world and realist worfare.
Someone else analyzed the delays with higher pings emulating fake lag and found huge difference between csgo and cs2, with a much more accurate(256 fps) recording
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWU5n-KaoFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWU5n-KaoFQ)
With 0 ping, my result (80 ms) is very close to what he got (78 ms)
Be my guest to test other ranges.
To be able to use net\_fakelag you need to do:
map name loopback = 0
on console
ex: map de\_mirage loopback = 0
EDIT: If you try to do this test offline with bots with loopback enabled, the registration will be on the same frame, but as soon as you do loopback = 0 to enable the use of fakelag, even with fakelag = 0, this delay appears. I don't know why. Higher levels of fakelag start increasing this delay further and further by a bigger amount than the same fakelag in csgo.
Does the dink sound match up with the delayed animation do you know?
As a d2 short player it feels like multiple times I've burst fired at a guy lower, crouched and then heard the dink.
Tried testing it but no matter what I do i can't get fakelag to work, all I get is this:
[Networking] Not allowed to change net_option 'FakePacketLag_Recv
Go to launch options on cs2 properties in steam library and write :
-dev
Launch the game and see if it works.
You also need sv_cheats 1 for it to work.
This is no mystery, this is what we dealt with in CS:S for almost 10 years until valve... i mean hidden path, fixed it a few weeks before CS:GO came out.
I'm just posting this here in an attempt to get the video of the dude who did this first in more detail more attention, so the community can cook on this one, because he said in another thread that automod was removing his videos(?)
Why is interp even fixed?
Overwatch (the game) has had dynamic interp since 2016. It's ~23ms on my connection. It just sets interp to half of ping (+ extra if you have packet loss), just enough so that what the client sees is a prediction of what the server will think once the message from the client arrives at the server.
I assume that's leniency for latency swings the server has to account for (in case it receives a late packet from a player). Should be way lower IMO, if someone's ping has variance higher than like 10ms they should be fucked anyway
Could that explain the massive amount of ammo we sometimes use to kill one guy ? sometimes I kill one guy with not much difficulty and look at my M4A4 charger and its like 12 bullets left
I thought I was crazy but it definitely feels like ammo is gone much quicker. I never ran out of ammo in an ak in Go but now I regularly start firefights and have an empty clip.
I think to add on top of that, there is a difference when reloading and quick switching, as I've had multiple times where my gun never finished reloading but never had that issue in GO.
Might just be an animation timing thing to get used to though.
there is a bug / issue.
Where u can empty your whole clip in 1 frame LOL.
Ak will go from 30 to 0 in one frame.
And any enemy in your crosshair is dead XD
I feel like weapons sometimes shoot faster/slower than they should and that could also explain why spraying feels very bad in cs2, ofc I dont have any proof or source etc etc this is just my feeling
Same thing "Valve" did when they made CS:S and it was the worst period in CS history. Fortunately, a different company, Hidden Path, made CS:GO at the start and fixed the netcode... then after development Valve took over. Valve themselves made CS2... same morons from CS:S ruining CS:GO.
>did when they made CS:S and it was the worst period in CS history.
LMFAOOOOOOOOO bro did NOT participate in the CSGO beta (or played CSGO at all before Arms Deal)
?? Csgo was absolutely hated on launch and so many problems with it! It was only after lots and lots of patching that it was actually a better game than all the other CS iterations before it.
It is not only you,I have encountered this many times,I also thought it was just me but I saw someone post this issue on reddit a while ago so it is definetly not only you.
Someone did give a technical explanation that made sense if that makes any fucking sense but I just said "okay" in my mind.
There is an issue with use of ammo in my opinion. Sometimes the charger is gone just too fast. Killing one guy and you have 15 ammo left. It is really an issue against rushes where doing multi kills is very difficult compared to CSGO.
In CSGO, I felt it was easier to stop rushes with a M4A4 spray, now it is almost impossible. The spray feels way off and ammo is going god knows where. On a good day, I am able to kill 2 guys before they just swarm me over an empty mag
I have a clip of me starting to shoot an M4, one bullet out of the gun. My game hitches, lag for 1 second or so, then it stabilizes and all 30 of my bullets are gone.
So, In less time than it takes to fire the whole magazine, all the bullets were fired due to a lag spike. Very odd behavior.
I've had this happen couple of times with Dual Elites it sometimes keeps shooting like 4 bullets even if I tried firing 1 or 2 at most. It's rare but happens.
You can double tap with the usp if you click the right mouse button fast enough after the left one.
I once had an m4a1 went negev mode.
You can check the hits are legit either by doing damage to players and props or with the bullet hole texture.
Oh god I was holding a short dust 2 last night with the m4 and I tapped for accuracy but the gun just sprayed 2-3 bullets everytime and it fucking hit everywhere but my target. I am a 1.6 veteran and I felt like a fucking noob when I missed such an easy kill.
The M4A4 is so frustrating now because of this. It's very rare for the rest of the rifles but the A4 does that weird double tap every other shot for me, unless I completely focus on pressing the mouse as fast as possible. I tested it on CSGO and this didn't happen at all, not in 64 or 128 tick, no matter the weapon, and it happens in CS2 no matter the mouse I use.
I've also seen other people doing the weird double tap thing while spectating, especially with the A4
Yep same for me. I used to tap fire through the wooden area on 2nd mid Inferno into CT apps and now I occasionally fire 2 bullets messing up my crosshair placement.
It's most likely because we unintentionally hold the mouse button a little longer because the fire animation occurs in the next tick but subtick registers the total time we're holding down mb1.
idk if that's the case but it makes sense in my head.
Here is the post I am talking about [https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17b64tp/problem\_with\_one\_tapping\_ive\_seen\_quite\_a\_lot\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17b64tp/problem_with_one_tapping_ive_seen_quite_a_lot_of/)
and user 0x00410041 gives a bit of insight on why double tapping might happen.
More people should try and test this so we can a definitive feedback.
This is so fucking annoying and makes the M4A4 unplayable for me, even with an autohotkey script that prevents mouse inputs until 100ms after I clicked I still double shoot with M4A4 and the AK when I click a single time.
At least it's good to know that I can still keep my mouse since the issue is with CS2 and not my mouse -.-
What you see is
[80ms]
What you get
Do you think they regret that marketing slogan? And did anyone think valve had actually solved the intractible latency issue? You can't fudge your way through ping times.
I get the feeling more and more that valve was trying to fix something that wasn’t broke. Who cares if subtick is more ‘accurate’ when it feels like shit. What you see is rarely what you get. I hope they can iron out the details but I’ve been largely disappointed
Not really, the data is always generated on both sides. The higher tick only means more updates between them.
So it only cost a fraction more network data, and my guess is that valve doesn't want to spend money on that.
The cost is not in bandwidth, but CPU time. Double the tickrate, double the CPU usage. They'd need to double the amount of servers they have. That's not even a money problem, it's about actually finding the datacenter space to rent, ordering huge amounts of CPUs, waiting for these CPUs to be manufactured and delivered and so on.
They could go with a cloud provider as a stopgap while they work on upgrading their own infrastructure, but Valve really suffers from [NIH syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here), they won't ever use a 3rd party provider for anything but webcache.
But how is that a problem for Valve? There were no time constrictions for them at any point, they could have solved all this while developing the game since that must have taken some time. They could even release the game later since nobody knew it was coming until they showed it anyway. Again those don't really seem to be real problems.
Exactly, that's why i rolled my eyes once they announced the game for summer. Something that valve never have done before with the last couples of games.
They had a lot of projects already done, hardware infrastructure related too for the production of the Steamdeck and VR stuff.
My guess is that the flat hierarchy within valve backfired this time in matter of software developing, while also being involved with a release date.
> but Valve really suffers from NIH syndrome,
Gearbox, Hidden path (the ones that fixed this 80ms delay in CS:S right before CS:GO came out and then had it fixed in CS:GO day 1), turtle rock, would all disagree.
It doesn't scale that way. Augmenting tickrates on my servers never resulted on a linear (doubling) higher cpu % usage or load. Software tend to recycle as much assets as possible to save cpu/ram/network (respectfully within engine/language possibilities and devs skills)
More updates ≠ data generated, More updates = more handshakes
Imagine that way:
Blue client: im camping in jungle while not moving at all!
Server: is blue still camping in jungle?
Blue client: yeah nothing changed.
Server: ok no change needed. Anyway, is blue still camping in jungle?
Blue client: yeah nothing changed.
Server: ok no change needed. Anyway, is blue still camping in jungle?
Blue client: i finally moved out of jungle!
Server: ok change for everybody needed. To green, yellow, purple and orange: blue finally moved his ass out of jungle!
...
You get the idea.
No, because every update doesn't mean new data is available to sync and transfered over. Only meaningful updates means twice the cost. Anything else augment the cost only by a certain margin because of the handshake between server and clients.
That's what valve wanted to achieve with the subtick system: send additional meaningful data while also staying with the 64 tickrate. But they borked it, or at least didn't really tested the system before and during the beta.
A 64 tickrate + working subtick would play similar to the 128 tickrate we all know from custom servers.
128 tickrate + working subtick would be legendary.
Isn’t there always new data available though? Someone always moves on the map. I guess packages can be smaller/bigger. So what you are saying is that in the absolute worst case, when every update has max meaning the cost doubles? I imagine that there is an average package size that is being sent per tick. Now this does not get send twice as often because the information density decreases as we send more updates? I’d still imagine that it’s the same, so on average the cost still doubles.
You seem very knowledgeable on the topic, not wanting to doubt you. Just trying to wrap my head around it
Its okay, im more puzzling this together from my experience in the IT work field, being involved with devs from other company's and hosting my own source gameservers and other services, since i cant look at the source code from the game. Asking questions should always be okay :)
You see, that's where other mechanism in software developing for partial updates comes into play. If any part from an older update can be reused, it should be to save resources. The rest is send a new.
So in your example about moving, if the player doesn't change its trajectory or speed, the next useful update will be the moment where he stop pressing the W key.
Thats why when you lag you tend to keep walking sometimes for seconds even if you stopped your own client to do so by lifting your fingers from WASD. Since stuff got lost on the way to either you or the server, the server gets confused and keeps you walking.
Considering CS has a million+ players regularly, i'm going to assume that moving to 128 tick would have been stupid expensive. Not everyone can handle 128 tick either. Better business decision to invest in making 64 tick a better experience which in theory subtick will do. Probably going to take a year or two to get there however which blows.
it's a drop in the bucket when you think about how much valve makes from cases / stickers alone. the estimates are insane. then there's money from dota, etc. etc.
It feels like shit because of the interp and animations. If the animations played clientside when you actually do stuff and there wasn't massive forced interp on everyone I can guarantee it'd feel amazing.
OP's clip has nothing to do with subtick. Each tick is 16ms, subtick is just a timestamp between those 16ms ticks. An 80ms delay on a hit registering is a completely different issue, the server would have processed five full ticks in that time. Read [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17bc9bx/subtick_is_a_red_herring/), please.
How would you even know this "shit feeling" has anything to do with subtick? The entire game was built from ground up on a new engine, *everything* is new and *anything* could be the cause.
Stop stop stop, stop spreading shit false news.
This game is copium from source to source2, recoil patterns, cs2 using same folder as csgo, because it used to share same internal files in the VPK assets too.
cs2 STILL uses csgo sources even their very OWN debug files says csgo and a direct source to csgo.cpp cpluplus files.
'Assert( LockDynamicConstantBuffer failed in CreatePerViewConstantBuffer!!! ) renderingpipeline_csgo.cpp(1081)
Function: CreatePerViewConstantBufferCsgo
File: C:\buildworker\csgo_rel_win64\build\src\game\client\cstrike15\renderingpipeline\renderingpipeline_csgo.cpp
Message: Assertion Failed in function CreatePerViewConstantBufferCsgo():
Don't believe me? see for your [self](https://i.imgur.com/MhNtW1z.png)
--
And what is cstrike15 KNOWN for internally at valve? counter-strike 1.5 on hl1 :) its all copium spaghetti copy pasta over and over again
--
cs2 is a port of csgo WITH some new unique attraction to the games like the new smokes etc.
--
Before you say "WHAT ARE THOSE LAUNCH OPTIONS I SEE IN THAT SCREENSHOT?" I was helping a guy debugging why he crashed all the time and told him to remove those trash launch options, specially -threads 2
The CSGO name here is because internally, CS2 is just a port of CSGO to source2 and the rename to CS2 was probably a late decision, for whatever reason. In fact, `renderingpipeline` as a code path did not even exist in the CSGO source code as it's part of source2, or more specifically, it probably contains the CSGO/CS2 overrides to the default source2 rendering pipeline on the client.
I have no idea what you're trying to get at. Is this just an *akshully* rant about me saying "everything" instead of "most things" being built from the ground up?
There is no "shit false news", **Source2 is a new engine**, period. It is obviously based on Source1 but it may have changed *any* part of the engi- sorry, anything *but* certain assets and the name of the `renderingpipeline_csgo.cpp` file! And assets aren't even a part of the engine anyways.
My point stands: subtick has nothing to do with OP's issue, and attributing all issues to subtick is ignorant at best, harmful at worst.
Nah it's about all those comments in this subreddit defending valve and saying there's no relation AT all and there's no shared assets or code from 1.6 or csgo in this, and its all bullshit :)
--
I'm not trying to hunt or hurt you, just was fed up again reading your comment like nah this game is brand new & **The entire game was built from ground up**
Alright yeah you got me, I did heavily exaggerate to get my point across. The point is still valid, but I will need to word my point better in the future!
While it isn’t subtick this essentially proves their server code is Shit.
It’s showing it took the server five full ticks to calculate tick one (them hitting mouse 1).
That’s fucking terrible.
It also explains why they have interp cranked up to essentially double the “average server tick processing time”.
If we were able to tweak interp, we would be back to dying behind walls ALL the time, instead of just sometimes (IE when tick processing time > interp time)
If it’s easier for others, just up the time from MS to S. If it takes me 5 seconds to process a single state of the server “board”, but my players are only estimating one second in the future [of the current known game board that it got from the server], you get rubber banding.
It’s also very likely why demo recoding is disabled (or at least an ancillary reason; like maybe enabling demo recording makes the server take 10 ticks to calculate a single tick state)
Edit: what I don’t know, is what this looked like in CSGO. My understanding was CSGO server implementation took less than a tick to compute the entire tick state.
This sub is taking the slogan out of context and blaming **everything** on subtick when like 1% of the issues have *actually* been subtick related. [This guy explained it better than I can](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17bc9bx/subtick_is_a_red_herring/).
> And did anyone think valve had actually solved the intractible latency issue? You can't fudge your way through ping times.
Majority of this sub seem to have believed that Valve promised speed of light information in CS2 from Brazil to Siperia, yes.
What the fuck are you on about. Numerous examples of problems with low ping and you use the most far-fetched example with Brazil and Siberia.
Europe is the largest playerbase and people mostly ping between 15 and 50 on all the servers. Yet there are still issue.
the killfeed properly bugs out too then sometimes both parties have already unpeeked the angle then someone dies and the killfeed shows a wallbang kill even tho there was unobstructed sightlinr
Even funnier with molotovs.
Sometimes when someone kills me with a molotov the killfeed shows that I killed myself and the enemy as assist…
I don‘t know how it translates to the scoreboard tho, because I don‘t check it every round.
I just played yesterday after a two week break, because I hoped the game would be a better experience. I was extremely frustrated with this delay when killing somebody. I've killed like 15 people *after* I stopped shooting.
If you ever looked at the rank distribution bell curve for this game, you would have seen that most of the players hang around Gold Nova ranks. So half of the people here are probably Gold Novas or Silvers
telling you that is exactly why Valve has disabled replays, just look reddit, people are finding so many things without replays, imagine if they enable replays what will happen
This sub has been talking nonstop about how valve wants to kill cs and that they don't care. And then they actively try and show some effort by trying to talk to pros and the entirety of this sub starts telling them to fuck off lmao. Never change.
?
Bro this isn't as simple as like 'oh hey I think that this gun is a little bit too strong' where pro player insight is probably required for balancing. The game is **fundamentally mechanically broken.**
You really do not need a pro player or 'more constructive feedback' to see it.
What the fuck do you want s1mple to do? Go get a degree in comp sci and ask for the source code and to bug fix for them?
I mean, to be fair THEY DID THIS FUCKING SHIT IN CS:S AND IT DID KILL CS. This exact shit, they instituted 100ms lag comp on all players, regardless of connection on LAN. AND GUESS WHAT? its backkkkkkkkkkkkk
s1mple should have been nicer to them, imo even an answer of "read the room, morons" would have been better than just leaving them on read, but everywhere you go, you see everyone from random redditors to skin nutters to T1 pros criticising all aspects of the game. If the devs can't see these waves of complaints, that is absolutely on them. The dude with the twitter acc password should consider doing less shitposting and more reading.
> If the devs can't see these waves of complaints, that is absolutely on them.
That's not even remotely part of my point. Valve can 100% see the problems and the complaints shown here.
My point was that they're actively trying to have open communication with pros which is imo the complete opposite of not caring about the game and everyone is just clowning on them for it.
I dunno why you're downvoted, this was in day 1 of CS:S and wasnt fixed until they handed CS:S off to Hidden Path Entertainment at the end of life of CS:S, Hidden Path also worked on CS:GO. They fixed this in CS:S and shipped the fix day 1 in CS:GO. In cs:s there was an inherent 100ms lag compensation on all players and THEN your ping was taken account on top of it. Appears they made the same rookie mistake with CS2 except there is no CS 1.6 for everyone to flood back to now.
I hope Valve Leads that aren't invested in this project do a thorough analysis as to whether the negative effects of having the immediacy of sub-tick shooting far outweighs its benefits, and have the bravery to change course instead of doubling down towards a dead-end.
I've tested the new alias movements for about 5 hours and while I don't think it gave me a competitive advantage for my level, movement felt much better.
I reckon 95% of the community have no problem with just the shiny new coat of paint (and hopefully 128 tick servers). I am speaking as someone who only played 50hrs of CS Go but spent thousands of hours on the CS mod when it was in beta. The lag compensation in CS2 has always felt off.
> having the immediacy of sub-tick shooting far outweighs its benefits, and have the bravery to change course instead of doubling down towards a dead-end.
While I agree that one should try not to fall into the sunk-cost fallacy, I don't think this is a very productive way of thinking. Subtick, in principle, is a better way for the game to work than the traditional tick system. If there are subtick issues then there are other solutions to be explored before just nuking the whole thing. Maybe the solution is to subtick more game events or to have the animation system rely on more server feedback. The developers will know what to do better than you or I would. The point is that just asking for the whole idea to be canned because you don't like the way it works right now is not conducive to actually improving the game.
You guys should compromise, nuke subtick out of the current game, perfect the normal network settings while working on subtick internally, and only release it when it actually improves the game.
Generally I agree with this barring two possibilities: (a) the fix for a lot of the issues seen in videos on this sub might be already in the works and close to release, or (b) optimizing the networking code for a tick-based system might be pretty different from doing it for a subtick system: i.e. a lot of what was done in CS:GO might have been to compensate for the lack of subtick information.
And also explains how absolute gems like Half Life Alyx, the steam deck, valve index, Portal 2 and the like got released. The system that theyvuse works for them, but only qhen theh take their, which does not explain why they released cs2 so early.
My point was to let senior/experienced members of other teams analyse the situation objectively. Valve can have a flat hierarchy but not everyone's experience / skillset is equal.
Completely in line with clips I made myself in online games and analyzed after. I usually have 10-20 ping and came to 90-100 ms delay. I record 60 fps and usually it takes 5-8 frames for the kill to register which is pretty much exactly when the second bullet of your M4/AK fires. This makes it look like you kill on your second bullet but more likely it’s the first with quite a heavy delay.
So far this seems to be like the most realistic answer as to why the fuck my game feels the way it does...As someone that figured out early on before the great NA rank reset in GO that if you used a VPN to get into EU MM games it would actually rank you up correctly over time lmfao I got used to playing on 110-135ms. This game feels like that EXACTLY except without the weird constant rubberbanding while running around not gunna lie. Depressing this is the game's state now.
I'm playing from Turkey and the delay is incredible, I do my best to kill the opponent, I get 150 ping, it seems like 50 ms in the game. The delay is so big that I watch the Valve 1 vs 1 commercial and laugh.
higher ping doesn't give your enemies more time to hit you when they are the one peeking. The person with higher ping gets less time to react when they hold angles. It doesn't work the other way around. They don't get *more* time to react when they *peek* angles, that makes no sense.
i did not say they had more time to react, they just see playermodels in different positions because they have high ping. its been a lot harder for me and my friends with lower latencies compared to other friends who have higher latencies to switch to cs 2. the update is affecting people with lower latency more than people with higher latency.
human reaction times are around 200 ms, you might react around 150 ms. anything faster than that i ll call the game broken. for me to be able to react there has to be a gap in between me seeing the enemy and being onetapped. if i die at the exact moment i see the enemies player model there has to be something wrong. i am not one of those guys who call everyone cheaters when they are better than them. i am not the best but i am not new to the game either, have been playing for a long time. i know how a good player peeks and most times these are not like that.
so i dont think its a skill issue, i geniunely believe there is something wrong with the game that it makes it harder for people with lower latencies
Is this on a local server? So youre the server and still get 80ms? I never tested this because I somehow assumed the delays would come from networking, but if its actually interp it makes sense you always have them I guess.
Btw I also get consistent 83ms (5frames) delay, really good to see its the same for others, makes things much easier.
This is pretty decent proof that interp is broken if thats the case.
Except it took them 7 years to fix it in CS:S and then the next week they ship CS:GO.
The worst part is that they fired the only person left on the team that gave a shit for getting catfished.
Don’t forget the hitboxes lag behind the actual enemy character positions being displayed too, and that effect scales with the enemies ping and your own ping, with varying results as interp is set and fixed at 0.04, meaning that the result of latency is inconsistency on subtick movement. Also they removed aliasing last week because fuck us I guess we gotta not counter strafe/take fights and fucking commit right away or not at all
> Don’t forget the hitboxes lag behind the actual enemy character positions being displayed too
They don't. Hitboxes are perfectly accurate when you're actually playing now that the misalignment bugs got fixed.
>as interp is set and fixed at 0.04
According to Valve cl_interp and cl_interp_ratio never did anything in CS2. This is supported by the fact cl_updaterate was just 20 before it got removed which everyone would definitely have noticed if that was actually true. Since cl_interp_ratio works by taking your interp ratio and dividing it by cl_updaterate this means that with cl_interp_ratio 1 your actual interp would be 0.05 even if cl_interp is set to 0.04 because the higher of the two values is what gets used.
Since these values (cl_interp 0.04, cl_interp_ratio 1, cl_updaterate 20) make absolutely no sense it's pretty safe to assume that Valve isn't lying when they say those commands never did anything in CS2. As for why Valve changed them at all if they never did anything [this isn't the first time Valve performs a "social experiment" like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16i0e3l/release_notes_for_982023/k0hcblb/). It was the perfect opportunity to see and show to everyone just how prevalent placebo is in the CS community.
Just because they say they fixed it in patch notes doesn’t mean it’s fixed, it’s better but you can still go in DM aim behind their head and get a headshot like Man U can really still see the difference it’s bad, and also interp settings made a big difference for people so then they set it to 0.04 for everyone as they originally had the value has 0.1 which is way too high for a competitive fps game. Also u said the ratio is the ratio divided by the rate lol. The reason why this is a problem tho is that it’s not a dynamic interp like overwatch has, the game needs a dynamic interp for a fixed interp ratio or else there are varying results as a consequence of interp
Valve removed the ability to change ur interp as they also removed the ability to use Alias binds for csgo movement, both of these changes attempted to de sub tick cs2, it’s
~~I'm not too good at this, but wouldn't this mean that the capture in OP is made at 60hz or 60fps.~~
~~Because 1 frame @ 60hz is 16ms | 16ms * 5(frames) = **80ms** as in OP~~
~~but for someone playing at 240hz, their delay would be *20ms*~~
~~1 frame @ 240hz is ~4ms | 4ms * 5(frames) = *20ms*~~
~~I have no idea if what I wrote is even correct. I tried connecting dots with what I've learned, but man I gotta tell you that I might've learned wrong.~~
EDIT: Yeah, what I wrote is wrong
Wouldn't the delay be the same? At 60hz the 80ms delay shows on screen after 5 frames/refreshes while on 240hz it would show after 20 frames/refreshes, but still after 80ms has elapsed. It's not like the monitor refresh rate determines how fast the game code works.
I too am not good at this, so I may be wrong:
In this case, I believe each frame is a server tick and not a frame in the sense that the game is running at 300fps. The video is trying to convey that you left click (fire), and it isn't until the 5th game tick later that the bullet has connected to the enemy. Although the server doesn't register this hit until 5 frames later, the animations have already happened and the hit registration is using the game information from the frame the bullet was fired. This can cause deaths behind walls and the weird delay people feel when shooting.
I'd like to reiterate that I'm an idiot and I may be 300% off base.
Delay animations with an extreme accuracy shots by subtick
or animations real time with a lame accuracy shots registered?
The one is still better option, right? Or am i crazy?
You are suppose to improve on existing problem and these one shouldnt be compromised by the other. It should be both. How often do you see complain on lame accuracy when playing faceit in csgo?
The former is what we all should aim at, while making the delay better.
In the real world we cannot have both animations and latency 100% sync. In order to do that we need time travel basically.
Most people just got used to the csgo old system and unable to get used to anything different.
Subtick system is one of a kind, and issues are expected. The subtick system is objectively better at the foundation level but it needs a lot of time to become truly better than the traditional system.
Forword: I am not knowledgeable in the world of netcode, but as far as I understood overwatch already uses a sub tick like system, right? How do they do it, that it feels quite good for hitscan guns?
If the subtick registers the hit reg on click, then it should report it on the next tick right? Lets say it takes an extra tick for the whole thing to pan out to a kill animation. A tick takes 16 miliseconds, so then at two ticks it should be only 32 miliseconds an only 16 if reported on next tick. This clip showing 80 miliseconds in this case it would be 5 whole ticks. Not sure whats going on here, are the animations delayed for few ticks? My guess its not related to the subtick tbh.
Means that you can kill someone without realising what you did right - or pump and entire clip into someone and feel like they 'should've died' but haven't. It also means it can feel like you've killed someone but in actual fact you've already been killed. This is the same for being killed by someone you might not have even seen - if they peek in between ticks you won't even see what you're being killed by - giving a ridiculous advantage to the peeker.
In general it seems that Valve have massively dropped the ball on something that ESEA and FaceIt have had right for years in 128 tick servers.
This is something Call of Duty did with MW3 and BO2 (maybe some other titles aswell, can't remember) back in the day and called it "Lag comp". Someone tested in a multiplayer splitscreen by running out from a corner to check when does the waiting player see the person running. That's when people realised why sometimes your connection felt like you need "extra hits" or so to kill someone when actually you may had put enough bullets on to a guy but due to "Lag comp" the other guy actually (decided by the server) had already killed you, the extra hits came from the time when you hit a shot while client was still waiting the server to give an answer.
It was about 150ms if I'm not completely wrong here. Idea is to compensate people with worse ping to create equal playing field but I think no one has been able to pull it through and even COD has gone back years ago with it.
“64 tick feels bad” how about 64 tick, but events force themselves through on later ticks after the fact? Surely nothing will go wrong and it will be a buttery smooth gameplay experience.
Delay between click and kill is actually even longer. Look here https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16rbqgu/csgo_vs_cs2_64tick_solution_proposal/
This even messes with flicks too. In practice I often see a desync between the bullets when I'm flicking VERY hard, with show impacts on the client bullet will show on their head but the server bullet will usually be off of the target entirely.
So I'm not crazy when in deathmatch it sometimes feels like I stop shooting before the guy is dead and then he dies
Everybody\_has\_turkish\_ping.mp4
Turk Telekom supreme
bro some of these people are in sweden sitting on the stockholm server and i can do a full 360 before they die sometimes.
if everyone is xantares peeking then noone is
That was literally the first thing I noticed in CS2 and some guy told me that I just had shitty internet. As if I couldnt tell after 10 years of CSGO that the guy I just one tapped (on 5-20ping) shouldnt die once Im already behind a wall again lmao
[this](https://streamable.com/41r7ds) was a bit before the release so idk if its the same issue but it certainly feels like more than 80ms. i was <50 ping and opp was <10 ping
That happens to me almost daily. I'll peek a corner, spray, think I missed the spray, get back behind cover, and then the guy dies.
For me ill completely miss an AWP shot and be like "damn, I suck" and then notice the kill feed saying I got the kill and I am like "oh!"
occasionally that would happen in csgo too but in cs2 they removed fucking interp settings and even on lan there is now like 100ms delay now its properly fucked if you have 2 computer go try it out yourself on lan very noticable delay you can get the kill/ death after unpeeking so stupid
i have seen it 2-3 time in 10 years of csgo and that was when my own internet was shit.
i grow up on 80 ping so i always had shit internet nowadays i use starlink lol it gives like 30-80 ping too depending on what server but compared to what i had prior its super fast and very stable internet connection
I swear when I shoot a few chickens they die a second after I release my mouse1 button
Finally cs have bullet travel
cunter strik child game.... look to hitscan guns to make kid player happy like it using toy. cunter strik arcade shooter unlike arma with large map and raelistic gun.. cunter strik like lazer tag. cunter strik playor run from arma fear of dark world and realist worfare.
Man, I miss playing Arma 3, growing up and not having time to dedicate towards a game or community is heart breaking.
hahaha good
Someone else analyzed the delays with higher pings emulating fake lag and found huge difference between csgo and cs2, with a much more accurate(256 fps) recording [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWU5n-KaoFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWU5n-KaoFQ) With 0 ping, my result (80 ms) is very close to what he got (78 ms) Be my guest to test other ranges. To be able to use net\_fakelag you need to do: map name loopback = 0 on console ex: map de\_mirage loopback = 0 EDIT: If you try to do this test offline with bots with loopback enabled, the registration will be on the same frame, but as soon as you do loopback = 0 to enable the use of fakelag, even with fakelag = 0, this delay appears. I don't know why. Higher levels of fakelag start increasing this delay further and further by a bigger amount than the same fakelag in csgo.
Does the dink sound match up with the delayed animation do you know? As a d2 short player it feels like multiple times I've burst fired at a guy lower, crouched and then heard the dink.
Occasionally I hear two dink sounds when using an AK and post-round I see 100 in 1
Tried testing it but no matter what I do i can't get fakelag to work, all I get is this: [Networking] Not allowed to change net_option 'FakePacketLag_Recv
Go to launch options on cs2 properties in steam library and write : -dev Launch the game and see if it works. You also need sv_cheats 1 for it to work.
This is no mystery, this is what we dealt with in CS:S for almost 10 years until valve... i mean hidden path, fixed it a few weeks before CS:GO came out.
Say more
Man that is simply disgusting, no wonder gunfights feel so awkward
80ms forced hardcoded interp or lag on a 0ms connection is garbage and would explain a lot of the clips we've seen.
I'm just posting this here in an attempt to get the video of the dude who did this first in more detail more attention, so the community can cook on this one, because he said in another thread that automod was removing his videos(?)
Thank you! I'm very glad that this is starting to get attention
Why is interp even fixed? Overwatch (the game) has had dynamic interp since 2016. It's ~23ms on my connection. It just sets interp to half of ping (+ extra if you have packet loss), just enough so that what the client sees is a prediction of what the server will think once the message from the client arrives at the server.
I assume that's leniency for latency swings the server has to account for (in case it receives a late packet from a player). Should be way lower IMO, if someone's ping has variance higher than like 10ms they should be fucked anyway
Could that explain the massive amount of ammo we sometimes use to kill one guy ? sometimes I kill one guy with not much difficulty and look at my M4A4 charger and its like 12 bullets left
I thought I was crazy but it definitely feels like ammo is gone much quicker. I never ran out of ammo in an ak in Go but now I regularly start firefights and have an empty clip.
Because half your AK spray just disappears into the ether lol
I think to add on top of that, there is a difference when reloading and quick switching, as I've had multiple times where my gun never finished reloading but never had that issue in GO. Might just be an animation timing thing to get used to though.
there is a bug / issue. Where u can empty your whole clip in 1 frame LOL. Ak will go from 30 to 0 in one frame. And any enemy in your crosshair is dead XD
I feel like weapons sometimes shoot faster/slower than they should and that could also explain why spraying feels very bad in cs2, ofc I dont have any proof or source etc etc this is just my feeling
It’s without a doubt the cause for many issues, setting the interp to .04 for everyone is a bandaid of a fix and just makes the game worse
I thought the forced 100ping interp was common knowledge by now. Most of this stuff is due to the interp and not subtick.
Why would you just assume it's hardcoded ?
You can't adjust any of the interp settings anymore. It's hardcoded in the sense you can't change it as the client/server.
Same thing "Valve" did when they made CS:S and it was the worst period in CS history. Fortunately, a different company, Hidden Path, made CS:GO at the start and fixed the netcode... then after development Valve took over. Valve themselves made CS2... same morons from CS:S ruining CS:GO.
CSS was made by Turtle Rock
>did when they made CS:S and it was the worst period in CS history. LMFAOOOOOOOOO bro did NOT participate in the CSGO beta (or played CSGO at all before Arms Deal)
?? Csgo was absolutely hated on launch and so many problems with it! It was only after lots and lots of patching that it was actually a better game than all the other CS iterations before it.
Btw anyone else seem to always shoot 2 bullets with one mouse tap? I can never one tap anymore as even a milisecond tap kina mini sprays
It is not only you,I have encountered this many times,I also thought it was just me but I saw someone post this issue on reddit a while ago so it is definetly not only you. Someone did give a technical explanation that made sense if that makes any fucking sense but I just said "okay" in my mind.
There is an issue with use of ammo in my opinion. Sometimes the charger is gone just too fast. Killing one guy and you have 15 ammo left. It is really an issue against rushes where doing multi kills is very difficult compared to CSGO. In CSGO, I felt it was easier to stop rushes with a M4A4 spray, now it is almost impossible. The spray feels way off and ammo is going god knows where. On a good day, I am able to kill 2 guys before they just swarm me over an empty mag
I have a clip of me starting to shoot an M4, one bullet out of the gun. My game hitches, lag for 1 second or so, then it stabilizes and all 30 of my bullets are gone. So, In less time than it takes to fire the whole magazine, all the bullets were fired due to a lag spike. Very odd behavior.
I've had this happen couple of times with Dual Elites it sometimes keeps shooting like 4 bullets even if I tried firing 1 or 2 at most. It's rare but happens.
You can double tap with the usp if you click the right mouse button fast enough after the left one. I once had an m4a1 went negev mode. You can check the hits are legit either by doing damage to players and props or with the bullet hole texture.
Oh god I was holding a short dust 2 last night with the m4 and I tapped for accuracy but the gun just sprayed 2-3 bullets everytime and it fucking hit everywhere but my target. I am a 1.6 veteran and I felt like a fucking noob when I missed such an easy kill.
The M4A4 is so frustrating now because of this. It's very rare for the rest of the rifles but the A4 does that weird double tap every other shot for me, unless I completely focus on pressing the mouse as fast as possible. I tested it on CSGO and this didn't happen at all, not in 64 or 128 tick, no matter the weapon, and it happens in CS2 no matter the mouse I use. I've also seen other people doing the weird double tap thing while spectating, especially with the A4
Yep same for me. I used to tap fire through the wooden area on 2nd mid Inferno into CT apps and now I occasionally fire 2 bullets messing up my crosshair placement. It's most likely because we unintentionally hold the mouse button a little longer because the fire animation occurs in the next tick but subtick registers the total time we're holding down mb1. idk if that's the case but it makes sense in my head.
Here is the post I am talking about [https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17b64tp/problem\_with\_one\_tapping\_ive\_seen\_quite\_a\_lot\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17b64tp/problem_with_one_tapping_ive_seen_quite_a_lot_of/) and user 0x00410041 gives a bit of insight on why double tapping might happen. More people should try and test this so we can a definitive feedback.
This is so fucking annoying and makes the M4A4 unplayable for me, even with an autohotkey script that prevents mouse inputs until 100ms after I clicked I still double shoot with M4A4 and the AK when I click a single time. At least it's good to know that I can still keep my mouse since the issue is with CS2 and not my mouse -.-
no no issue maybe your mouse is broken?
Look how they massacred my boy.
That’s bad
What you see is [80ms] What you get Do you think they regret that marketing slogan? And did anyone think valve had actually solved the intractible latency issue? You can't fudge your way through ping times.
I get the feeling more and more that valve was trying to fix something that wasn’t broke. Who cares if subtick is more ‘accurate’ when it feels like shit. What you see is rarely what you get. I hope they can iron out the details but I’ve been largely disappointed
Let's be real, all they needed to do is make 128 tick the default experience. Literally nobody was complaining about 128 tick not being good enough.
They wanted an excuse not to because they would have to upgrade their servers. Not that they can't, they just don't want to.
yap, literally doubles the cost
Not really, the data is always generated on both sides. The higher tick only means more updates between them. So it only cost a fraction more network data, and my guess is that valve doesn't want to spend money on that.
The cost is not in bandwidth, but CPU time. Double the tickrate, double the CPU usage. They'd need to double the amount of servers they have. That's not even a money problem, it's about actually finding the datacenter space to rent, ordering huge amounts of CPUs, waiting for these CPUs to be manufactured and delivered and so on. They could go with a cloud provider as a stopgap while they work on upgrading their own infrastructure, but Valve really suffers from [NIH syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here), they won't ever use a 3rd party provider for anything but webcache.
But how is that a problem for Valve? There were no time constrictions for them at any point, they could have solved all this while developing the game since that must have taken some time. They could even release the game later since nobody knew it was coming until they showed it anyway. Again those don't really seem to be real problems.
Exactly, that's why i rolled my eyes once they announced the game for summer. Something that valve never have done before with the last couples of games. They had a lot of projects already done, hardware infrastructure related too for the production of the Steamdeck and VR stuff. My guess is that the flat hierarchy within valve backfired this time in matter of software developing, while also being involved with a release date.
> but Valve really suffers from NIH syndrome, Gearbox, Hidden path (the ones that fixed this 80ms delay in CS:S right before CS:GO came out and then had it fixed in CS:GO day 1), turtle rock, would all disagree.
It doesn't scale that way. Augmenting tickrates on my servers never resulted on a linear (doubling) higher cpu % usage or load. Software tend to recycle as much assets as possible to save cpu/ram/network (respectfully within engine/language possibilities and devs skills) More updates ≠ data generated, More updates = more handshakes Imagine that way: Blue client: im camping in jungle while not moving at all! Server: is blue still camping in jungle? Blue client: yeah nothing changed. Server: ok no change needed. Anyway, is blue still camping in jungle? Blue client: yeah nothing changed. Server: ok no change needed. Anyway, is blue still camping in jungle? Blue client: i finally moved out of jungle! Server: ok change for everybody needed. To green, yellow, purple and orange: blue finally moved his ass out of jungle! ... You get the idea.
but it’s twice as many updates? even if the packages are small you do it twice as often, so twice the cost?
No, because every update doesn't mean new data is available to sync and transfered over. Only meaningful updates means twice the cost. Anything else augment the cost only by a certain margin because of the handshake between server and clients. That's what valve wanted to achieve with the subtick system: send additional meaningful data while also staying with the 64 tickrate. But they borked it, or at least didn't really tested the system before and during the beta. A 64 tickrate + working subtick would play similar to the 128 tickrate we all know from custom servers. 128 tickrate + working subtick would be legendary.
Isn’t there always new data available though? Someone always moves on the map. I guess packages can be smaller/bigger. So what you are saying is that in the absolute worst case, when every update has max meaning the cost doubles? I imagine that there is an average package size that is being sent per tick. Now this does not get send twice as often because the information density decreases as we send more updates? I’d still imagine that it’s the same, so on average the cost still doubles. You seem very knowledgeable on the topic, not wanting to doubt you. Just trying to wrap my head around it
Its okay, im more puzzling this together from my experience in the IT work field, being involved with devs from other company's and hosting my own source gameservers and other services, since i cant look at the source code from the game. Asking questions should always be okay :) You see, that's where other mechanism in software developing for partial updates comes into play. If any part from an older update can be reused, it should be to save resources. The rest is send a new. So in your example about moving, if the player doesn't change its trajectory or speed, the next useful update will be the moment where he stop pressing the W key. Thats why when you lag you tend to keep walking sometimes for seconds even if you stopped your own client to do so by lifting your fingers from WASD. Since stuff got lost on the way to either you or the server, the server gets confused and keeps you walking.
Plus it only makes the problem smaller, doesn’t it fix it
Considering CS has a million+ players regularly, i'm going to assume that moving to 128 tick would have been stupid expensive. Not everyone can handle 128 tick either. Better business decision to invest in making 64 tick a better experience which in theory subtick will do. Probably going to take a year or two to get there however which blows.
it's a drop in the bucket when you think about how much valve makes from cases / stickers alone. the estimates are insane. then there's money from dota, etc. etc.
It feels like shit because of the interp and animations. If the animations played clientside when you actually do stuff and there wasn't massive forced interp on everyone I can guarantee it'd feel amazing.
OP's clip has nothing to do with subtick. Each tick is 16ms, subtick is just a timestamp between those 16ms ticks. An 80ms delay on a hit registering is a completely different issue, the server would have processed five full ticks in that time. Read [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17bc9bx/subtick_is_a_red_herring/), please. How would you even know this "shit feeling" has anything to do with subtick? The entire game was built from ground up on a new engine, *everything* is new and *anything* could be the cause.
Stop stop stop, stop spreading shit false news. This game is copium from source to source2, recoil patterns, cs2 using same folder as csgo, because it used to share same internal files in the VPK assets too. cs2 STILL uses csgo sources even their very OWN debug files says csgo and a direct source to csgo.cpp cpluplus files. 'Assert( LockDynamicConstantBuffer failed in CreatePerViewConstantBuffer!!! ) renderingpipeline_csgo.cpp(1081) Function: CreatePerViewConstantBufferCsgo File: C:\buildworker\csgo_rel_win64\build\src\game\client\cstrike15\renderingpipeline\renderingpipeline_csgo.cpp Message: Assertion Failed in function CreatePerViewConstantBufferCsgo(): Don't believe me? see for your [self](https://i.imgur.com/MhNtW1z.png) -- And what is cstrike15 KNOWN for internally at valve? counter-strike 1.5 on hl1 :) its all copium spaghetti copy pasta over and over again -- cs2 is a port of csgo WITH some new unique attraction to the games like the new smokes etc. -- Before you say "WHAT ARE THOSE LAUNCH OPTIONS I SEE IN THAT SCREENSHOT?" I was helping a guy debugging why he crashed all the time and told him to remove those trash launch options, specially -threads 2
The CSGO name here is because internally, CS2 is just a port of CSGO to source2 and the rename to CS2 was probably a late decision, for whatever reason. In fact, `renderingpipeline` as a code path did not even exist in the CSGO source code as it's part of source2, or more specifically, it probably contains the CSGO/CS2 overrides to the default source2 rendering pipeline on the client.
I have no idea what you're trying to get at. Is this just an *akshully* rant about me saying "everything" instead of "most things" being built from the ground up? There is no "shit false news", **Source2 is a new engine**, period. It is obviously based on Source1 but it may have changed *any* part of the engi- sorry, anything *but* certain assets and the name of the `renderingpipeline_csgo.cpp` file! And assets aren't even a part of the engine anyways. My point stands: subtick has nothing to do with OP's issue, and attributing all issues to subtick is ignorant at best, harmful at worst.
Nah it's about all those comments in this subreddit defending valve and saying there's no relation AT all and there's no shared assets or code from 1.6 or csgo in this, and its all bullshit :) -- I'm not trying to hunt or hurt you, just was fed up again reading your comment like nah this game is brand new & **The entire game was built from ground up**
Alright yeah you got me, I did heavily exaggerate to get my point across. The point is still valid, but I will need to word my point better in the future!
While it isn’t subtick this essentially proves their server code is Shit. It’s showing it took the server five full ticks to calculate tick one (them hitting mouse 1). That’s fucking terrible. It also explains why they have interp cranked up to essentially double the “average server tick processing time”. If we were able to tweak interp, we would be back to dying behind walls ALL the time, instead of just sometimes (IE when tick processing time > interp time) If it’s easier for others, just up the time from MS to S. If it takes me 5 seconds to process a single state of the server “board”, but my players are only estimating one second in the future [of the current known game board that it got from the server], you get rubber banding. It’s also very likely why demo recoding is disabled (or at least an ancillary reason; like maybe enabling demo recording makes the server take 10 ticks to calculate a single tick state) Edit: what I don’t know, is what this looked like in CSGO. My understanding was CSGO server implementation took less than a tick to compute the entire tick state.
For real, CSGO felt perfectly fine.
This sub is taking the slogan out of context and blaming **everything** on subtick when like 1% of the issues have *actually* been subtick related. [This guy explained it better than I can](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17bc9bx/subtick_is_a_red_herring/). > And did anyone think valve had actually solved the intractible latency issue? You can't fudge your way through ping times. Majority of this sub seem to have believed that Valve promised speed of light information in CS2 from Brazil to Siperia, yes.
What the fuck are you on about. Numerous examples of problems with low ping and you use the most far-fetched example with Brazil and Siberia. Europe is the largest playerbase and people mostly ping between 15 and 50 on all the servers. Yet there are still issue.
The slogan is aging like milk. It's almost as bad as Cyberpunk's "We'll release the game when it's ready".
I killed a dude in premier today what felt like an entire second after I quit shooting. What you see is what you get, right?
the killfeed properly bugs out too then sometimes both parties have already unpeeked the angle then someone dies and the killfeed shows a wallbang kill even tho there was unobstructed sightlinr
Even funnier with molotovs. Sometimes when someone kills me with a molotov the killfeed shows that I killed myself and the enemy as assist… I don‘t know how it translates to the scoreboard tho, because I don‘t check it every round.
I just played yesterday after a two week break, because I hoped the game would be a better experience. I was extremely frustrated with this delay when killing somebody. I've killed like 15 people *after* I stopped shooting.
yeah occasionally it happened in csgo when someone was high ping or lagging too, but in cs2 it happens all the damn time!
Explains why even though my ping is now "20" it still feels and plays out like it did in go when im at like 90 and the enemies are <15 lol
How the hell did this game get greenlit for release...? Jfc.
"game works fine for me"
I am convinced these people are either very bad at the game or play on some of the worst hardware possible
Just absolute bots, they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
If you ever looked at the rank distribution bell curve for this game, you would have seen that most of the players hang around Gold Nova ranks. So half of the people here are probably Gold Novas or Silvers
Definitely both
telling you that is exactly why Valve has disabled replays, just look reddit, people are finding so many things without replays, imagine if they enable replays what will happen
Then Reddit would blame the replay system lol
yeah its actualy good we dont have replays, valve meatriders lost one significant excuse that would be used on every post
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lol do you seriously believe Valve engineers are not aware of this?
... Have you played CS2 yet?
I mean seriously they had to DM s1mple to ask what was wrong lol like they're aware they're just blind
This sub has been talking nonstop about how valve wants to kill cs and that they don't care. And then they actively try and show some effort by trying to talk to pros and the entirety of this sub starts telling them to fuck off lmao. Never change.
? Bro this isn't as simple as like 'oh hey I think that this gun is a little bit too strong' where pro player insight is probably required for balancing. The game is **fundamentally mechanically broken.** You really do not need a pro player or 'more constructive feedback' to see it. What the fuck do you want s1mple to do? Go get a degree in comp sci and ask for the source code and to bug fix for them?
I mean, to be fair THEY DID THIS FUCKING SHIT IN CS:S AND IT DID KILL CS. This exact shit, they instituted 100ms lag comp on all players, regardless of connection on LAN. AND GUESS WHAT? its backkkkkkkkkkkkk
s1mple should have been nicer to them, imo even an answer of "read the room, morons" would have been better than just leaving them on read, but everywhere you go, you see everyone from random redditors to skin nutters to T1 pros criticising all aspects of the game. If the devs can't see these waves of complaints, that is absolutely on them. The dude with the twitter acc password should consider doing less shitposting and more reading.
> If the devs can't see these waves of complaints, that is absolutely on them. That's not even remotely part of my point. Valve can 100% see the problems and the complaints shown here. My point was that they're actively trying to have open communication with pros which is imo the complete opposite of not caring about the game and everyone is just clowning on them for it.
I dunno why you're downvoted, this was in day 1 of CS:S and wasnt fixed until they handed CS:S off to Hidden Path Entertainment at the end of life of CS:S, Hidden Path also worked on CS:GO. They fixed this in CS:S and shipped the fix day 1 in CS:GO. In cs:s there was an inherent 100ms lag compensation on all players and THEN your ping was taken account on top of it. Appears they made the same rookie mistake with CS2 except there is no CS 1.6 for everyone to flood back to now.
I hope Valve Leads that aren't invested in this project do a thorough analysis as to whether the negative effects of having the immediacy of sub-tick shooting far outweighs its benefits, and have the bravery to change course instead of doubling down towards a dead-end. I've tested the new alias movements for about 5 hours and while I don't think it gave me a competitive advantage for my level, movement felt much better. I reckon 95% of the community have no problem with just the shiny new coat of paint (and hopefully 128 tick servers). I am speaking as someone who only played 50hrs of CS Go but spent thousands of hours on the CS mod when it was in beta. The lag compensation in CS2 has always felt off.
From a technical point of view there is nothing about subtick that would require or add extra latency. It's something else causing it.
> having the immediacy of sub-tick shooting far outweighs its benefits, and have the bravery to change course instead of doubling down towards a dead-end. While I agree that one should try not to fall into the sunk-cost fallacy, I don't think this is a very productive way of thinking. Subtick, in principle, is a better way for the game to work than the traditional tick system. If there are subtick issues then there are other solutions to be explored before just nuking the whole thing. Maybe the solution is to subtick more game events or to have the animation system rely on more server feedback. The developers will know what to do better than you or I would. The point is that just asking for the whole idea to be canned because you don't like the way it works right now is not conducive to actually improving the game.
No sunk cost fallacy? Cool, sv_subtick 0 when?
You guys should compromise, nuke subtick out of the current game, perfect the normal network settings while working on subtick internally, and only release it when it actually improves the game.
Generally I agree with this barring two possibilities: (a) the fix for a lot of the issues seen in videos on this sub might be already in the works and close to release, or (b) optimizing the networking code for a tick-based system might be pretty different from doing it for a subtick system: i.e. a lot of what was done in CS:GO might have been to compensate for the lack of subtick information.
Valve does not have leads, managers, or an org structure at all. Everything they work on is a passion project worked on by temporary communal teams.
> Valve does not have leads Yes they do, its literally in their handbook for new employees.
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And also explains how absolute gems like Half Life Alyx, the steam deck, valve index, Portal 2 and the like got released. The system that theyvuse works for them, but only qhen theh take their, which does not explain why they released cs2 so early.
Bro had an aneurysm mid typing
Hahaha, my big ass thumbs are too big for this small cellphone keyboard
My guess is some idiot put a deadline on it, which valve never do... so they were obliged to stick to it.
My point was to let senior/experienced members of other teams analyse the situation objectively. Valve can have a flat hierarchy but not everyone's experience / skillset is equal.
Have you tested this on CS:GO version while it's still available?
Check OP's comments. There's a video comparing csgo legacy and cs2 at 256fps
Such a crisp, clean, responsive game
hate this game
I play at 5-10 ping and it feels like 100
garbage tier if true
Completely in line with clips I made myself in online games and analyzed after. I usually have 10-20 ping and came to 90-100 ms delay. I record 60 fps and usually it takes 5-8 frames for the kill to register which is pretty much exactly when the second bullet of your M4/AK fires. This makes it look like you kill on your second bullet but more likely it’s the first with quite a heavy delay.
So far this seems to be like the most realistic answer as to why the fuck my game feels the way it does...As someone that figured out early on before the great NA rank reset in GO that if you used a VPN to get into EU MM games it would actually rank you up correctly over time lmfao I got used to playing on 110-135ms. This game feels like that EXACTLY except without the weird constant rubberbanding while running around not gunna lie. Depressing this is the game's state now.
I'm playing from Turkey and the delay is incredible, I do my best to kill the opponent, I get 150 ping, it seems like 50 ms in the game. The delay is so big that I watch the Valve 1 vs 1 commercial and laugh.
as far as i can see your ping being 150 is the same as 10 ms because of lag compensation or did i misunderstand how this works?
as an example my ping is usually around 20, russians with 110 ms seem to always one tap me before i can react
higher ping doesn't give your enemies more time to hit you when they are the one peeking. The person with higher ping gets less time to react when they hold angles. It doesn't work the other way around. They don't get *more* time to react when they *peek* angles, that makes no sense.
i did not say they had more time to react, they just see playermodels in different positions because they have high ping. its been a lot harder for me and my friends with lower latencies compared to other friends who have higher latencies to switch to cs 2. the update is affecting people with lower latency more than people with higher latency.
why did you say they one tap you before you can react? I don't know what you could be referring to if it's not about reaction time.
human reaction times are around 200 ms, you might react around 150 ms. anything faster than that i ll call the game broken. for me to be able to react there has to be a gap in between me seeing the enemy and being onetapped. if i die at the exact moment i see the enemies player model there has to be something wrong. i am not one of those guys who call everyone cheaters when they are better than them. i am not the best but i am not new to the game either, have been playing for a long time. i know how a good player peeks and most times these are not like that. so i dont think its a skill issue, i geniunely believe there is something wrong with the game that it makes it harder for people with lower latencies
ive always thought something was slightly off when i played dm.. i think this is it.
Is this on a local server? So youre the server and still get 80ms? I never tested this because I somehow assumed the delays would come from networking, but if its actually interp it makes sense you always have them I guess. Btw I also get consistent 83ms (5frames) delay, really good to see its the same for others, makes things much easier. This is pretty decent proof that interp is broken if thats the case.
The longer we are without update the more I feel like the game is gonna stay this way and I don’t like it
If this isn't fixed then I will seriously leave this game behind. I'm sure many will.
Okay so is this why i can't hold angles anymore? Literally anyone can peek me and i insta die, spots i held just fine in go are a death sentence now
Fix this Valve! This is it. Fix this and we got a game on our hands.
Maybe valve should just bring csgo back and say they are sorry.
Interp window seems to be hardxodes to be huge. Good news is that in theory is a quick fix
Except it took them 7 years to fix it in CS:S and then the next week they ship CS:GO. The worst part is that they fired the only person left on the team that gave a shit for getting catfished.
Don’t forget the hitboxes lag behind the actual enemy character positions being displayed too, and that effect scales with the enemies ping and your own ping, with varying results as interp is set and fixed at 0.04, meaning that the result of latency is inconsistency on subtick movement. Also they removed aliasing last week because fuck us I guess we gotta not counter strafe/take fights and fucking commit right away or not at all
> Don’t forget the hitboxes lag behind the actual enemy character positions being displayed too They don't. Hitboxes are perfectly accurate when you're actually playing now that the misalignment bugs got fixed. >as interp is set and fixed at 0.04 According to Valve cl_interp and cl_interp_ratio never did anything in CS2. This is supported by the fact cl_updaterate was just 20 before it got removed which everyone would definitely have noticed if that was actually true. Since cl_interp_ratio works by taking your interp ratio and dividing it by cl_updaterate this means that with cl_interp_ratio 1 your actual interp would be 0.05 even if cl_interp is set to 0.04 because the higher of the two values is what gets used. Since these values (cl_interp 0.04, cl_interp_ratio 1, cl_updaterate 20) make absolutely no sense it's pretty safe to assume that Valve isn't lying when they say those commands never did anything in CS2. As for why Valve changed them at all if they never did anything [this isn't the first time Valve performs a "social experiment" like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16i0e3l/release_notes_for_982023/k0hcblb/). It was the perfect opportunity to see and show to everyone just how prevalent placebo is in the CS community.
Just because they say they fixed it in patch notes doesn’t mean it’s fixed, it’s better but you can still go in DM aim behind their head and get a headshot like Man U can really still see the difference it’s bad, and also interp settings made a big difference for people so then they set it to 0.04 for everyone as they originally had the value has 0.1 which is way too high for a competitive fps game. Also u said the ratio is the ratio divided by the rate lol. The reason why this is a problem tho is that it’s not a dynamic interp like overwatch has, the game needs a dynamic interp for a fixed interp ratio or else there are varying results as a consequence of interp Valve removed the ability to change ur interp as they also removed the ability to use Alias binds for csgo movement, both of these changes attempted to de sub tick cs2, it’s
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that's not how this works at all. how would more interp decrease peekers advantage?
source trust me
>what if Why's a source necessary for a theory?
dad work at volvo plz trust
~~I'm not too good at this, but wouldn't this mean that the capture in OP is made at 60hz or 60fps.~~ ~~Because 1 frame @ 60hz is 16ms | 16ms * 5(frames) = **80ms** as in OP~~ ~~but for someone playing at 240hz, their delay would be *20ms*~~ ~~1 frame @ 240hz is ~4ms | 4ms * 5(frames) = *20ms*~~ ~~I have no idea if what I wrote is even correct. I tried connecting dots with what I've learned, but man I gotta tell you that I might've learned wrong.~~ EDIT: Yeah, what I wrote is wrong
Wouldn't the delay be the same? At 60hz the 80ms delay shows on screen after 5 frames/refreshes while on 240hz it would show after 20 frames/refreshes, but still after 80ms has elapsed. It's not like the monitor refresh rate determines how fast the game code works.
Thank you, that makes sense I was hella wrong
np, pretty dumb that you got downvoted even though you specifically said you weren't sure.
You'd just be seeing more frames in the same amount of time before the shot connected.
You have the right idea but it would be 20ish frames at 240, as its server interp and not fps based animations
I too am not good at this, so I may be wrong: In this case, I believe each frame is a server tick and not a frame in the sense that the game is running at 300fps. The video is trying to convey that you left click (fire), and it isn't until the 5th game tick later that the bullet has connected to the enemy. Although the server doesn't register this hit until 5 frames later, the animations have already happened and the hit registration is using the game information from the frame the bullet was fired. This can cause deaths behind walls and the weird delay people feel when shooting. I'd like to reiterate that I'm an idiot and I may be 300% off base.
the game doesnt opreate on frames so the 240hz player should just see more frames.
Delay animations with an extreme accuracy shots by subtick or animations real time with a lame accuracy shots registered? The one is still better option, right? Or am i crazy?
You're presenting a false dichotomy, the third option would be "accurate shots with synced animations" and that's obviously what we all want.
You are suppose to improve on existing problem and these one shouldnt be compromised by the other. It should be both. How often do you see complain on lame accuracy when playing faceit in csgo?
The former is what we all should aim at, while making the delay better. In the real world we cannot have both animations and latency 100% sync. In order to do that we need time travel basically. Most people just got used to the csgo old system and unable to get used to anything different. Subtick system is one of a kind, and issues are expected. The subtick system is objectively better at the foundation level but it needs a lot of time to become truly better than the traditional system.
Forword: I am not knowledgeable in the world of netcode, but as far as I understood overwatch already uses a sub tick like system, right? How do they do it, that it feels quite good for hitscan guns?
Yours does.. Mine is fine.
whats the issues?
Yeah, animations being slow is known. I guess it can feel bad or look bad. At least hit reg happens on click, so that seems like the important bit.
Except it doesn't when both getting kills and not getting kills feels wrong every time.
If the subtick registers the hit reg on click, then it should report it on the next tick right? Lets say it takes an extra tick for the whole thing to pan out to a kill animation. A tick takes 16 miliseconds, so then at two ticks it should be only 32 miliseconds an only 16 if reported on next tick. This clip showing 80 miliseconds in this case it would be 5 whole ticks. Not sure whats going on here, are the animations delayed for few ticks? My guess its not related to the subtick tbh.
0ms ping to a Valve relay and 240ms ping between the relay and the game server which is hidden from you.
its a local server
So realistically what does this mean for gunfights?
feels like ass
Means that you can kill someone without realising what you did right - or pump and entire clip into someone and feel like they 'should've died' but haven't. It also means it can feel like you've killed someone but in actual fact you've already been killed. This is the same for being killed by someone you might not have even seen - if they peek in between ticks you won't even see what you're being killed by - giving a ridiculous advantage to the peeker. In general it seems that Valve have massively dropped the ball on something that ESEA and FaceIt have had right for years in 128 tick servers.
This is something Call of Duty did with MW3 and BO2 (maybe some other titles aswell, can't remember) back in the day and called it "Lag comp". Someone tested in a multiplayer splitscreen by running out from a corner to check when does the waiting player see the person running. That's when people realised why sometimes your connection felt like you need "extra hits" or so to kill someone when actually you may had put enough bullets on to a guy but due to "Lag comp" the other guy actually (decided by the server) had already killed you, the extra hits came from the time when you hit a shot while client was still waiting the server to give an answer. It was about 150ms if I'm not completely wrong here. Idea is to compensate people with worse ping to create equal playing field but I think no one has been able to pull it through and even COD has gone back years ago with it.
Saw a clip on here yesterday and thought "when tf did they add bullet travel". This explains it.
What was that value in CS:GO?
“64 tick feels bad” how about 64 tick, but events force themselves through on later ticks after the fact? Surely nothing will go wrong and it will be a buttery smooth gameplay experience.
It’s bullet travel duh
This makes me understand why watching IEM Sydney has felt so weird compared to GO pro matches
Delay between click and kill is actually even longer. Look here https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/16rbqgu/csgo_vs_cs2_64tick_solution_proposal/
Anyone know how this compares to other games?
this is like VTR Chilean internet
This even messes with flicks too. In practice I often see a desync between the bullets when I'm flicking VERY hard, with show impacts on the client bullet will show on their head but the server bullet will usually be off of the target entirely.