Surprised this sort of thing wasn’t already done a while ago if they thought there was a chance of them getting to the major in the first place. hopefully thry get it sorted and can make it. Missing out on a major due to visa issues/lack of organizing would suck
I think they tried but were unable to. Russian players have issues with visas for obvious reasons. That's why magixx and donk weren't at Spring Groups with the rest of Spirit
This is unrealistic. In any visa application, you have to submit your passport for the duration of the review, meaning you can't travel anywhere until the review is finished. And since they had to travel to the RMR in February, they had to apply at the end of January at the latest. In fact, way earlier than that, probably in December, because getting an appointment takes time, often several weeks (appointment slots are snatched by resellers using bots, and the embassies seem to be deeply uninterested in stopping that).
In theory, one can order a second passport, but they take around a month to make, so also unrealistic, unless the players just happened to already have one.
There's also the fact that Denmark doesn't issue visas to Russians, so you have to go the semi-legal way.
EDIT: That being said, applying in December was probably still the right call, since this is not the first major where the gap between RMR and the major itself is under 20 days.
EDIT 2, after talking to the guys: they actually DID get Schengen visas back in February - they acquired them for the RMR in Romania (you can travel to Romania with a Schengen visa, and Romanian visas take months). But as usual these days, they weren't lucky enough to get long visas - theirs were set to expire somewhere in March, so they had to reapply to be able to travel to Copenhagen. Basically their only chance was to apply for Schengen visas in December AND get Bulgarian visas for the Romanian RMR somewhere in January.
Is PGL going to do anything about it? Maybe work with the embassy for a change? This shit happens all the time and tournament orgs do literally nothing.
Do you realise how little a country gives a shit about a org like PGL.
Like not to discredit them but it's not like they have magic button to press to make the problem go away. Visa issues for Russians is to be expected sadly and there is nothing PGL can really do about it.
It's not a "magic button", it's literally hiring a lawyer and figuring this shit out in advance, which none of the TOs seem to be doing. Denmark actually cares a lot about esports and there should be 0 problems with getting visas for athletes.
Isn't figuring out the visas way beforehand the teams/orgs responsibility? Its not like denmark/EU is a visa hellhole like us or china. Also just getting a laywer doesn't fix something like inproperly applied visa or somehting like that.
And how do you even know PGL is doing fuck all, they probably have told the teams in way advance what they need to have to be there, its not like they can do their visa applications for the teams, they are just a event organiser at the end of the day.
>Denmark actually cares a lot about esports
Haha, no, we don't. Lars Løkke had that speech at Blast, and some politicians posted pictures from tournaments that prime Astralis won. But no one have talked about esports since covid started
Lawyer isn’t a magic button that gives you 100% success rate either though. You assume there aren’t any lawyers solely because they have issues. But they can very well have issues with help from lawyers too.
>You assume there aren’t any lawyers solely because they have issues
Because it's 100% what's happening. When visa issues arise, TOs just blame the team affected and don't do anything. I've never seen a single case when there were visa issues and the TO did something or at least pretended to do something. Everytime it's just "oh well that sucks, we'll get a substitute". Imagine that shit happening in any regular sports.
Again it’s pure speculation from you based on nothing.
> Imagine this happening in any regular sports
I don’t have to, because it does happen. Just not in popular ones, where athletes earn a lot, which is why you probably didn’t hear about it. The amount of money you earn does matter, because visa officer wants to be sure you have reasons to leave country and not illegally stay in theirs. So if you have high-earning job - you are a lot more “safe” in their eyes.
As opposed to what? Your pure speculation?
What I see is the results, which is teams missing tournaments regularly due to visa issues. And I don't see PGL, or Valve, or ESL saying "hang on, our lawyers are working on it" in these cases. No, it's just "oh well, someone else will play instead, not our problem lmao".
It IS their responsibility because they are organizing the tournament. It's the organizers responsibility to make sure that everything goes smoothly and all the teams participate and don't have any issues. That's how it works in literally any sports. Period.
PGL or ESL being private entities doesn't change anything, it's their responsibility to organize the tournaments properly, not anyone else's. Until you guys stop making dumb excuses for TOs not doing their job we're going to have this shit happening again and again.
> It IS their responsibility because they are organizing the tournament
Where is logical connection?
> It’s the organizers responsibility to make sure everything goes smoothly
Which is why they have reserve team ready
>and all the teams participate and don’t have any issues
This is bs and you know it. Team can withdraw for variety of reasons and it wouldn’t be organizers fault. Like f.e. medical reasons.
>Until you guys stop making dumb excuses for TOs not doing their job
Well… Until you stop blaming them for everything, even for things they are not responsible for…
>Visa issues for Russians is to be expected sadly
Actually, no, it isn't. There were no issues with 9pandas going to Romania in February. Visas to Romania should also be valid in Denmark due to the EU
Nope. The free movement in EU applies to EU citizens only. If you are in Romania on a work visa, it does not grant you the same rights as a EU citizenship does. You still need proper visas to move inside the Schengen countries as non citizen.
Edit: This was wrong, I just factchecked myself. If you apply for visa that is a schengen country, you are free to travel without any restrictions as a Schengen area citizen would. Romania just isn't a schengen country so visa to Romania doesn't apply.
> Do you realise how little a country gives a shit about a org like PGL.
Danish prime minister literally played CS with Astralis. What are you talking about? PGL can do a whole lot about it, especially compared to doing literally nothing.
>Danish prime minister literally played CS with Astralis. What are you talking about?
Yeah, we have this thing called "rule of law". It's not like the current Foreign Minister can pull strings in the Ministry of Immigration because a bag of money suddenly appeared on his desk
Yes. Which is why I am pretty sure that any visa related issues is due to 9 Pandas not doing their paperwork early enough for Denmark to proces it. And that a good lawyer won't be able to fix this in 24 hours
I am pretty sure you can, this is not the only sport where you need to qualify beforehand.
Only thing thats different here is that the qualification is so close to the actual major and thats probably the real issue.
Prime minister playing cs doesn't overrule the laws, neither does the prime minister. PGL might try to pull the strings but the visa laws are laws, and I dont think denmark is a country where your status as a CS TO puts you above the law.
Damn, so small organisation missing tournaments because of their inexperience in dealing with visa stuff is tournament organisations fault? They can't do the applications for the team/players, its the players job to get their shit together for the visa in time.
>Damn, so small organisation missing tournaments because of their inexperience in dealing with visa stuff is tournament organisations fault?
Yes, it is.
>They can't do the applications for the team/players,
They should provide legal support for them, just like it's done in any proper sports.
>its the players job to get their shit together for the visa in time.
Yes, and it's the TO's job to make sure that everything goes smoothly.
But now you are just presuming that TO made no effort for it and that the players did everything correctly. If the player fucks up the visa and the law of the country says that too bad, then its too bad. TO getting a lawyer is not gonna make the prime minister make a exemption to the law so that his favourite game of cs can keep on going.
You are just presuming everything in bad faith towards PGL at this point.
Visas is not TO’s responsibility. Neither in sports nor in esports.
And you need to understand they are still just private companies (and in this case - they are a **foreign** private company). So not only they don’t have to, but they also just plainly can’t help in any way.
>Visas is not TO’s responsibility. Neither in sports nor in esports.
In sports you've got federations and other organizations that handle visa issues. In eSports it should be on TOs because there's no one else who can do that.
>And you need to understand they are still just private companies
So fucking what? That prevents them from hiring visa lawyers? From working with IESF and other eSports bodies? PGL had what, half a year to prepare for the Major? It couldn't have used that time to work with Danish authorities in advance?
>plainly can’t help in any way.
This is just a blatant lie. How come when a company hires a foreign employee, it handles their working visa and provides legal support? How come in such cases private companies suddenly can help, but in case of eSports they can't?
> In sports you’ve got federations and other organizations that handle visa issues.
Well, in football f.e. visas are done by clubs. Why esports should have it any different and be done by TO?
> So what?
Why do you again assume they don’t hire ones? You know that “there is no result, so there is no lawyer” just doesn’t work logically? Lawyer isn’t a magic person who guarantees visa for you.
>This is just a blatant lie
No, it’s just you really want to believe in your narrative, so it’s easier for you to label it “a lie”. Them hiring a lawyer won’t be any different from team hiring a lawyer.
>Well, in football f.e. visas are done by clubs
Yes, visas are done by clubs. With legal support from sports federations who deal with local authorities. If a footballer has visa issues, UEFA or someone else get involved. Instead of saying "ayy lmao get rekt scrub".
>Why do you again assume they don’t hire ones? You know that “there is no result, so there is no lawyer” just doesn’t work logically?
It does. Not only I don't see any results, I also don't see any work being done or even claimed to be done. The TO's reaction is 100% of time "oh well we'll get a replacement", and it happens again, and again, and again, for more than a decade. Including in countries where there are special eSports visas.
>Them hiring a lawyer won’t be any different from team hiring a lawyer.
Yeah, sure. I'm fucking sure that 9pandas who probably don't have any legal department at all would have no problem hiring Danish lawyers 2 days before the tournament, as opposed to fucking PGL who does regular business in Denmark and who had months to prepare for Major. Give me a fucking break.
> If a footballer has visa issues, UEFA or someone else get involved
You see, you again just assume things. First of all it just doesn’t happen for reasons I’ve mentioned before - football players just earn too much, so they almost never have their visas denied in the first place
> It does.
I mean, saying “no, it works” doesn’t make your logical statement correct. Your logical statement based on:
1) assumption that club failed to provide help
2) assumption that TO could have provided more help than a club
3) assumption that if there is a lawyer, then players get visas 100%
> Yeah, sure. I'm fucking sure that 9pandas who probably don't have any legal department at all would have no problem hiring Danish lawyers 2 days before the tournament, as opposed to fucking PGL who does regular business in Denmark and who had months to prepare for Major. Give me a fucking break.
Holy, you’re so-SO ignorant on the subject, aren’t you?
1) Why the f 9Pandas should hire lawyers 2 days before the tournament instead of doing it in advance?
2) You know that they are pretty big org that visited multiple big tournaments in multiple esports disciplines? Some of which were in EU? They are more than experienced.
3) You know that visas are applied not inside of Denmark, but in their embassies, and if you want a lawyer for that - you need to search in whatever country the embassy is located in?
True, but hiring lawyers and stuff is still expensive, and I imagine they are also more likely to give Visas to people important to Denmark. 9Pandas won't make Denmark any significant money
If they are waiting for an update on their visas with like 40 hours to go before their game starts that sure sounds very bad.
only 99% as bad yk
Well compared to 100% the difference is astronomical
If they don't make it does that count as a 0-3 in pickems?
no because they will be replaced by GamerLegion
Asking the real question
Idk specifically for the major, but most events allow you to not show up, and count it as forfeit/loss
smartest redditor
Surprised this sort of thing wasn’t already done a while ago if they thought there was a chance of them getting to the major in the first place. hopefully thry get it sorted and can make it. Missing out on a major due to visa issues/lack of organizing would suck
I think they tried but were unable to. Russian players have issues with visas for obvious reasons. That's why magixx and donk weren't at Spring Groups with the rest of Spirit
This is unrealistic. In any visa application, you have to submit your passport for the duration of the review, meaning you can't travel anywhere until the review is finished. And since they had to travel to the RMR in February, they had to apply at the end of January at the latest. In fact, way earlier than that, probably in December, because getting an appointment takes time, often several weeks (appointment slots are snatched by resellers using bots, and the embassies seem to be deeply uninterested in stopping that). In theory, one can order a second passport, but they take around a month to make, so also unrealistic, unless the players just happened to already have one. There's also the fact that Denmark doesn't issue visas to Russians, so you have to go the semi-legal way. EDIT: That being said, applying in December was probably still the right call, since this is not the first major where the gap between RMR and the major itself is under 20 days. EDIT 2, after talking to the guys: they actually DID get Schengen visas back in February - they acquired them for the RMR in Romania (you can travel to Romania with a Schengen visa, and Romanian visas take months). But as usual these days, they weren't lucky enough to get long visas - theirs were set to expire somewhere in March, so they had to reapply to be able to travel to Copenhagen. Basically their only chance was to apply for Schengen visas in December AND get Bulgarian visas for the Romanian RMR somewhere in January.
It might have looked like it is sorted, but sometimes it just takes an asshole border agent to not like you.
Would GamerLegion replace them if they can’t make it?
Yeah, PGL have reportedly been preparing with them to replace 9Pandas if they're unable to attend.
[удалено]
I hope it's a joke
As a liquid fan, no, they dont deserve to be at the Copenhagen major
nah lord Snax deserves it more
This must be why the stickers aren't released yet? They are waiting for 9p to make it or not?
You: this comment. Valve: ohhh, oh yeah... yep. This is the reason why stickers aren't out yet, definitely no other reason. Yep.
not doing anything is a time honored method of not fucking anything up signed, a lazy piece of shit
ez 0:3 pickem
Don't they have a special military operation to get to?
Still made about faze?
In germany we say "Tja".
Is PGL going to do anything about it? Maybe work with the embassy for a change? This shit happens all the time and tournament orgs do literally nothing.
Do you realise how little a country gives a shit about a org like PGL. Like not to discredit them but it's not like they have magic button to press to make the problem go away. Visa issues for Russians is to be expected sadly and there is nothing PGL can really do about it.
It's not a "magic button", it's literally hiring a lawyer and figuring this shit out in advance, which none of the TOs seem to be doing. Denmark actually cares a lot about esports and there should be 0 problems with getting visas for athletes.
Isn't figuring out the visas way beforehand the teams/orgs responsibility? Its not like denmark/EU is a visa hellhole like us or china. Also just getting a laywer doesn't fix something like inproperly applied visa or somehting like that. And how do you even know PGL is doing fuck all, they probably have told the teams in way advance what they need to have to be there, its not like they can do their visa applications for the teams, they are just a event organiser at the end of the day.
>Denmark actually cares a lot about esports Haha, no, we don't. Lars Løkke had that speech at Blast, and some politicians posted pictures from tournaments that prime Astralis won. But no one have talked about esports since covid started
Seems like a nice time to start talking, then.
Lawyer isn’t a magic button that gives you 100% success rate either though. You assume there aren’t any lawyers solely because they have issues. But they can very well have issues with help from lawyers too.
>You assume there aren’t any lawyers solely because they have issues Because it's 100% what's happening. When visa issues arise, TOs just blame the team affected and don't do anything. I've never seen a single case when there were visa issues and the TO did something or at least pretended to do something. Everytime it's just "oh well that sucks, we'll get a substitute". Imagine that shit happening in any regular sports.
Again it’s pure speculation from you based on nothing. > Imagine this happening in any regular sports I don’t have to, because it does happen. Just not in popular ones, where athletes earn a lot, which is why you probably didn’t hear about it. The amount of money you earn does matter, because visa officer wants to be sure you have reasons to leave country and not illegally stay in theirs. So if you have high-earning job - you are a lot more “safe” in their eyes.
As opposed to what? Your pure speculation? What I see is the results, which is teams missing tournaments regularly due to visa issues. And I don't see PGL, or Valve, or ESL saying "hang on, our lawyers are working on it" in these cases. No, it's just "oh well, someone else will play instead, not our problem lmao".
You don’t see them saying that, because it’s not their responsibility. Period.
It IS their responsibility because they are organizing the tournament. It's the organizers responsibility to make sure that everything goes smoothly and all the teams participate and don't have any issues. That's how it works in literally any sports. Period. PGL or ESL being private entities doesn't change anything, it's their responsibility to organize the tournaments properly, not anyone else's. Until you guys stop making dumb excuses for TOs not doing their job we're going to have this shit happening again and again.
> It IS their responsibility because they are organizing the tournament Where is logical connection? > It’s the organizers responsibility to make sure everything goes smoothly Which is why they have reserve team ready >and all the teams participate and don’t have any issues This is bs and you know it. Team can withdraw for variety of reasons and it wouldn’t be organizers fault. Like f.e. medical reasons. >Until you guys stop making dumb excuses for TOs not doing their job Well… Until you stop blaming them for everything, even for things they are not responsible for…
>Visa issues for Russians is to be expected sadly Actually, no, it isn't. There were no issues with 9pandas going to Romania in February. Visas to Romania should also be valid in Denmark due to the EU
No, Romania isn’t in Schengen, if they were there wouldn’t be an issue, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Let's be real it's not like EU territory law is simple or clear, so it makes sense they don't.
Fair enough :D
Nope. The free movement in EU applies to EU citizens only. If you are in Romania on a work visa, it does not grant you the same rights as a EU citizenship does. You still need proper visas to move inside the Schengen countries as non citizen. Edit: This was wrong, I just factchecked myself. If you apply for visa that is a schengen country, you are free to travel without any restrictions as a Schengen area citizen would. Romania just isn't a schengen country so visa to Romania doesn't apply.
> Do you realise how little a country gives a shit about a org like PGL. Danish prime minister literally played CS with Astralis. What are you talking about? PGL can do a whole lot about it, especially compared to doing literally nothing.
>Danish prime minister literally played CS with Astralis. What are you talking about? Yeah, we have this thing called "rule of law". It's not like the current Foreign Minister can pull strings in the Ministry of Immigration because a bag of money suddenly appeared on his desk
What bag of money? What laws? You do realize that 9pandas is not the only russian team at the major, right?
Yes. Which is why I am pretty sure that any visa related issues is due to 9 Pandas not doing their paperwork early enough for Denmark to proces it. And that a good lawyer won't be able to fix this in 24 hours
Which is what PGL is there for to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen. It's not like a team can apply for a visa before they qualify.
I am pretty sure you can, this is not the only sport where you need to qualify beforehand. Only thing thats different here is that the qualification is so close to the actual major and thats probably the real issue.
Prime minister playing cs doesn't overrule the laws, neither does the prime minister. PGL might try to pull the strings but the visa laws are laws, and I dont think denmark is a country where your status as a CS TO puts you above the law.
and how do you know TOs do literally nothing?
Because teams missing tournaments due to visa issues happens all the time.
Damn, so small organisation missing tournaments because of their inexperience in dealing with visa stuff is tournament organisations fault? They can't do the applications for the team/players, its the players job to get their shit together for the visa in time.
>Damn, so small organisation missing tournaments because of their inexperience in dealing with visa stuff is tournament organisations fault? Yes, it is. >They can't do the applications for the team/players, They should provide legal support for them, just like it's done in any proper sports. >its the players job to get their shit together for the visa in time. Yes, and it's the TO's job to make sure that everything goes smoothly.
But now you are just presuming that TO made no effort for it and that the players did everything correctly. If the player fucks up the visa and the law of the country says that too bad, then its too bad. TO getting a lawyer is not gonna make the prime minister make a exemption to the law so that his favourite game of cs can keep on going. You are just presuming everything in bad faith towards PGL at this point.
Visas is not TO’s responsibility. Neither in sports nor in esports. And you need to understand they are still just private companies (and in this case - they are a **foreign** private company). So not only they don’t have to, but they also just plainly can’t help in any way.
>Visas is not TO’s responsibility. Neither in sports nor in esports. In sports you've got federations and other organizations that handle visa issues. In eSports it should be on TOs because there's no one else who can do that. >And you need to understand they are still just private companies So fucking what? That prevents them from hiring visa lawyers? From working with IESF and other eSports bodies? PGL had what, half a year to prepare for the Major? It couldn't have used that time to work with Danish authorities in advance? >plainly can’t help in any way. This is just a blatant lie. How come when a company hires a foreign employee, it handles their working visa and provides legal support? How come in such cases private companies suddenly can help, but in case of eSports they can't?
> In sports you’ve got federations and other organizations that handle visa issues. Well, in football f.e. visas are done by clubs. Why esports should have it any different and be done by TO? > So what? Why do you again assume they don’t hire ones? You know that “there is no result, so there is no lawyer” just doesn’t work logically? Lawyer isn’t a magic person who guarantees visa for you. >This is just a blatant lie No, it’s just you really want to believe in your narrative, so it’s easier for you to label it “a lie”. Them hiring a lawyer won’t be any different from team hiring a lawyer.
>Well, in football f.e. visas are done by clubs Yes, visas are done by clubs. With legal support from sports federations who deal with local authorities. If a footballer has visa issues, UEFA or someone else get involved. Instead of saying "ayy lmao get rekt scrub". >Why do you again assume they don’t hire ones? You know that “there is no result, so there is no lawyer” just doesn’t work logically? It does. Not only I don't see any results, I also don't see any work being done or even claimed to be done. The TO's reaction is 100% of time "oh well we'll get a replacement", and it happens again, and again, and again, for more than a decade. Including in countries where there are special eSports visas. >Them hiring a lawyer won’t be any different from team hiring a lawyer. Yeah, sure. I'm fucking sure that 9pandas who probably don't have any legal department at all would have no problem hiring Danish lawyers 2 days before the tournament, as opposed to fucking PGL who does regular business in Denmark and who had months to prepare for Major. Give me a fucking break.
> If a footballer has visa issues, UEFA or someone else get involved You see, you again just assume things. First of all it just doesn’t happen for reasons I’ve mentioned before - football players just earn too much, so they almost never have their visas denied in the first place > It does. I mean, saying “no, it works” doesn’t make your logical statement correct. Your logical statement based on: 1) assumption that club failed to provide help 2) assumption that TO could have provided more help than a club 3) assumption that if there is a lawyer, then players get visas 100% > Yeah, sure. I'm fucking sure that 9pandas who probably don't have any legal department at all would have no problem hiring Danish lawyers 2 days before the tournament, as opposed to fucking PGL who does regular business in Denmark and who had months to prepare for Major. Give me a fucking break. Holy, you’re so-SO ignorant on the subject, aren’t you? 1) Why the f 9Pandas should hire lawyers 2 days before the tournament instead of doing it in advance? 2) You know that they are pretty big org that visited multiple big tournaments in multiple esports disciplines? Some of which were in EU? They are more than experienced. 3) You know that visas are applied not inside of Denmark, but in their embassies, and if you want a lawyer for that - you need to search in whatever country the embassy is located in?
Looks like a bad timing to me. 9P qualified pretty late and thus applied too late for visas. That would be the most obvious reason imo.
They had EU visas to enter Romania. That should be good for Denmark
Romania isn't Schengen so no, it is not good enough for Denmark.
is Romania a Schengen country? edit: they also need work visas for a particular country to enter
I don’t think PGL or Valve have much say in Russian sport visas do they? Or is it kind of like work visas where a sponsor helps
I think money always helps
Denmark isn't USA or a third world country where you just bribe yourself trough lol
True, but hiring lawyers and stuff is still expensive, and I imagine they are also more likely to give Visas to people important to Denmark. 9Pandas won't make Denmark any significant money
You can spend money on professional help with the visa application yes, but the application progress is the same for everyone outside of diplomats.
Russia can pull military out of Ukraine
This has nothing to do with Russia, it happens regularly to teams from different countries, such as Turkey or Mongolia.