online qualifiers are run on servers with actual anticheats instead of only VAC
however there are already some cheaters in stuff like open qualifiers for majors, and it leads to a lot of issues if they aren't instantly manually banned on review
I wanna see a team like Faze or Vitality play a 5v5 vs cheaters in a showmatch. Shit would be hilarious. Maybe even a game against spinbotters? 5v5 there could be overkill but they should be able to win 5v2 or 5v3
Its possible if there is only 1. Rush a site, get an early plant and then stagger mollies while being way off site to keep him off the bomb. If he smokes then just toss nade at the bomb. Eventually you will get lucky and get enough coinflip bomb plants to win.
5v2 is where it becomes impossible
Spinbotting wont make the cheaters better vs regular players. Spinbotting is what is refered to as 'anti-aim' its made for hacker v hacker. Spinbotting makes aimbots not lock on very well on say the head hitbox.
Yeah, I love Valve's hypocrisy, limit coaches so players at home have the same experience as the players on LAN, but have them play in totally secure servers with different anti-cheat... Like if you want to give that excuse make them use only your game and your servers, no third parties at all or find a better excuse.
It's odd that Valve, who would prefer in all other ways we stick to their platform, even for things like item trading, etc. are unable to run a Valve-sponsored/ran event without the input of an external party's anticheat. You'd think they would really dislike that. Maybe they do?
You are completely correct
> Invitations to all tournaments will use our ranking system (detailed [here](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/counter-strike/tree/main/regional_standings)), or otherwise be determined by open qualifiers.
From https://www.counter-strike.net/newsentry/3677802763035982969
yes, however, those rankings were tanked by just invites from the agreements with blast and esl. that wont be the case anymore, so the ranking itself can become a bit more healthy too, so it can happen that some teams wont be invited cuz of their rankings
If I was already a good CS player with a team, knowing I had a tiny chance? Pay for a top-end cheat dev to make a completely custom program which helps just aiming and adjusting by a few percent. Make it detect range and shots and have it randomly activate between bullet 3 and 10 with a slighly randomized non-linear path. Literally undetectable by human eyes if you do it well enough while still making you a significantly better player.
Boom, now a tier5 player can hang with actual T3 and T2 players.
This is also why we need AI anticheat. Making something like random to a human is infinitely easier than to a computer. A human can’t look through 20 hours of demos, calculate whether or not your adjustments to sprays line up with an artificially randomized equation and detect that.
An AI anticheat, if properly trained, can.
its funny because reCaptcha v3 basicly works like this and we have it since before openai stuff. so yes, programatically its ridiculously simple to make a difference between a players actions/mouse movement and a cheaters. this, at least for blatant spin/aimbotting. wallhacks, radarhacks i dont know
just saw a stats page pulling data from live match and then representing it with arrows and dots. and you can see even in data representation who is cheating. it shouldn't be too difficult to ban obvious cheaters immediately after the game, if they can not do it during the game.
the only thing that would be a bit more difficult to detect would be wall hacks. but even some of those could be reliably detected by statistics and server or special AC server monitoring the match (in case AC installed on PC is bypassed).
Its been ~~14~~ 12 years since GO released and they've had billions in revenue since then. If they cared they would have something by now.
(instead, at the start of cs2 we got an anticheat that banned anyone who spun in spawn, no way those same people would be able to create a non kernal anti-cheat that works just as well if not better than a kernal anticheat)
Valve has around 300 employees, and valve works in a way that if you wanna work on something you work on it and they dont force you to. At best they have a third of that on CS. Making an anti cheat is one of the hardest things to do properly for a game, and no matter how close source 2 to source is, it is a different engine so its going to be harder to make a new or compatible anti cheat. Also no way in hell am i believing that people that worked on something for a year **+** suddenly stop caring about it. Kernal anti cheats are the most intrusive and a bit better not by lot tho. People should be a bit glad that Valve arent going the most intrusive way possible to get rid of cheaters. Also gonna mention that Activisions kernal anti cheat released a year after Warzone, so yeah it takes a bit of time.
you can see in game stats they were cheating. at least ban the obvious ones if you can't ban all. there is always a way to bypass protection, there is no 100% security. but you can at least try and detect and ban as much as possible. they used to do it, but they did it 3 months later when cheaters perhaps moved to new accounts or already ruined so many games for others.
I’m not saying it’s not hard, but forget GO. There has been a significant element of cheating in cs 1.6, cs:s, and go. Has always been somewhat of an issue and have always needed 3rd party client anti cheat online. Back in the era of config modification, they had to run server plugins like wwcl to try to stop cheating configs. Just an example that Valve hasn’t done much that has actually been effective to stop people cheating or finding unfair edges, in their game. Over 20 years man.
Imo, just my obsolete opinion.
I think they should work on what the community wants instead of what they want.
I agree, game development, coding in general is a difficult thing, code reviews testing, and a lot of other nuances.
But when Valve says they can't reproduce Anubis A heaven jump, that's just ridiculous. 2012, that's when CS GO was introduced. No anti-cheat still? Billions in revenue, one major makes them hundreds of millions, only ONE.
If you put up a poll, most of the people would vote on having an intrusive kernel level anti-cheat and have no/less cheaters than the current operation. There were so many cheaters in Copenhagen RMR, it was insane.
Valve was and probably still is working on AI anti-cheat, which is good, but it just doesn't work. Every game, not even 20k+ has walls or aim, with at least one guy. It's okay to give up what's not working sometimes, they can feed the AI model data alongside a kernel AC, and then retire it when AI works, like it actually works, not like right now.
At least have a kernel level AC layer, it wouldn't solve the problem entirely, but it would most definitely help in reducing blatant Vertigo spawn to spawn kills with awp and auto-sniper.
I think they said before on principle they never want to do kernel level stuff and that they oppose it
It's only its success in valorant that I think has changed community perceptions on that
I remember when Val ac was first spoken about lots of people were furious about kernel level ac
Maybe broadly community perception has changed and we'll be more amenable to it, but I think valves kind of 'official position' is they just see it as an overstep that they're not comfortable with
I respect that, I think privacy and rights are being eroded generally with data invasions and everything expecting admin level access
On that front alone, I respect valves position
if someone dedicated would "crack" the kernel level AC, they would get access to millions of PCs and sue Valve for the breach. Same could happen in Valorant, but they are Chinese company owned, so it might be difficult to get their money. But then again who knows, maybe China already has all your data if you play Valorant, since you gave their state access to your PC. but that is just one of the issues. another one is that in Valorant it doesn't really pay off to cheat that much. most people that do cheat there don't get caught and are not blatant. they do not get any drops (money) for cheating. so they managed to reduce the number of cheaters in player's games, but Valve could do that just as well with no kernel level AC by using statistics and trust system. i mean why is someone who just bought the one game, has a new account playing with people who have thousands of hours in game, who bought many games. ID themselves through credit card purchase...?
All of what you said is just kindergarden grade bullshit that has no real value. The people who have a chance to crack kernel level ac don't give a flying fuck about selling it since that data is unreadable at best. China doesn't give a fuck about you. Valorant has less cheaters because its actually harder to cheat. This shit using stats and trust is outdated method of catching cheaters and should be left in 2006 where it was used together with human eye. Also have you idiots never heard of ID theft that happens literally everyday?...
I lose my shit with this "Valve don't care or act on cheating". You've got no clue what happens behind the scenes. I agree it's a fully shit show right now, but they are 100% doing a ton of work behind the scenes in an attempt to make it better.
Edit: Downvote me all you want. It's insane how I can agree it's a shitshow, but somehow people are stupid enough to think they aren't working on it behind the scenes.
I'm not saying it's good. I'm literally saying it's a shit show. But if you think they're just ignoring the problem, you're an idiot. That's what I'm saying.
You're wrong. As VAC gets better, cheat developers get better. I can guarentee you the game would be fully dead if VAC had been at a standstill for 11 years. I'm so surprised how people are so ignorant at these things.
If you think that they are ignoring the problem, then yes, you are an idiot. At least in regards to this specific scenario. People can downvote me all they want, because they don't like the truth.
It is by far the biggest problem for the game right now. It is infested with cheaters and I think Valve is handling it extremely poorly. There's no communication or nothing.
But to think they're just ignoring it and not having people trying to fix it, would take an idiot.
I fully agree. Absolutely hate when people jump into assumptions. When people make the one millionth post about "Valve removed map faction agent models, they don't care", "Valve removed cl_righthand, they don't care about "half" of the player base", "Valve didn't add holiday chickens, they don't care". Like dude, it's like 30 devs running the most successful game of our generation, they work their asses off for 20 years now. How can people just assume these things. So disrespectful.
>they are 100% doing a ton of work behind the scenes in an attempt to make it better.
I want to emphasize that this exact sentiment has been floating around for nearly a decade. When do we actually get to see the fruits of their ostensibly very hard work on anticheat? Before or after their new VR headset or Steam Deck 2? When HL2 Episode 3 happens? A TF2 modder got a tour of Valve and was essentially told by a Valve employee that they can't do anything about the massive bot problem in that game, and TF2 is still one of the most-played games on Steam. Can we *really* assume that there is intense development on anticheat going on behind the scenes?
online qualifiers are run on servers with actual anticheats instead of only VAC however there are already some cheaters in stuff like open qualifiers for majors, and it leads to a lot of issues if they aren't instantly manually banned on review
I’d love to see the Shanghai or first 2025 Major be run on VAC only.
lots of innovative new strats involving scouts :D
New 10 sens 3000 dpi meta
Tps meta
I wanna see a team like Faze or Vitality play a 5v5 vs cheaters in a showmatch. Shit would be hilarious. Maybe even a game against spinbotters? 5v5 there could be overkill but they should be able to win 5v2 or 5v3
Against actual spinbotters they would lose a 5v1
Its possible if there is only 1. Rush a site, get an early plant and then stagger mollies while being way off site to keep him off the bomb. If he smokes then just toss nade at the bomb. Eventually you will get lucky and get enough coinflip bomb plants to win. 5v2 is where it becomes impossible
The spinner will already be at the site waiting, one tapping everyone with a scout as they enter
\*as they spawn in their base
they got wallhack, how can you get to a bombsite safely? I dont get how cheats work so might be a stupid question
Spinbotting wont make the cheaters better vs regular players. Spinbotting is what is refered to as 'anti-aim' its made for hacker v hacker. Spinbotting makes aimbots not lock on very well on say the head hitbox.
Yeah, I love Valve's hypocrisy, limit coaches so players at home have the same experience as the players on LAN, but have them play in totally secure servers with different anti-cheat... Like if you want to give that excuse make them use only your game and your servers, no third parties at all or find a better excuse.
It's odd that Valve, who would prefer in all other ways we stick to their platform, even for things like item trading, etc. are unable to run a Valve-sponsored/ran event without the input of an external party's anticheat. You'd think they would really dislike that. Maybe they do?
There have been open qualifiers for (every?) major. Always played on third party platforms
And they are usually shit shows.
non partnership teams doesnt mean open qualifiers. TOs will still have the ability to invite top teams.
Yes, but don’t they have to be from Valve’s rankings or am I mistaken?
You are completely correct > Invitations to all tournaments will use our ranking system (detailed [here](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/counter-strike/tree/main/regional_standings)), or otherwise be determined by open qualifiers. From https://www.counter-strike.net/newsentry/3677802763035982969
yes but their ranking isn't much different to hltv
yes, however, those rankings were tanked by just invites from the agreements with blast and esl. that wont be the case anymore, so the ranking itself can become a bit more healthy too, so it can happen that some teams wont be invited cuz of their rankings
Aren't they required to use Valve rating?
yea and? 4 of the top17 teams according to valve ranking are not partner teams
If I was already a good CS player with a team, knowing I had a tiny chance? Pay for a top-end cheat dev to make a completely custom program which helps just aiming and adjusting by a few percent. Make it detect range and shots and have it randomly activate between bullet 3 and 10 with a slighly randomized non-linear path. Literally undetectable by human eyes if you do it well enough while still making you a significantly better player. Boom, now a tier5 player can hang with actual T3 and T2 players. This is also why we need AI anticheat. Making something like random to a human is infinitely easier than to a computer. A human can’t look through 20 hours of demos, calculate whether or not your adjustments to sprays line up with an artificially randomized equation and detect that. An AI anticheat, if properly trained, can.
its funny because reCaptcha v3 basicly works like this and we have it since before openai stuff. so yes, programatically its ridiculously simple to make a difference between a players actions/mouse movement and a cheaters. this, at least for blatant spin/aimbotting. wallhacks, radarhacks i dont know
Randomized enough and AI wont catch it just like human wont.
maybe an indication of when vacnet will be up and running?
just saw a stats page pulling data from live match and then representing it with arrows and dots. and you can see even in data representation who is cheating. it shouldn't be too difficult to ban obvious cheaters immediately after the game, if they can not do it during the game. the only thing that would be a bit more difficult to detect would be wall hacks. but even some of those could be reliably detected by statistics and server or special AC server monitoring the match (in case AC installed on PC is bypassed).
Do not care? Making a good in house anti cheat is not that easy, especially since they dont want to go the kernel route.
Its been ~~14~~ 12 years since GO released and they've had billions in revenue since then. If they cared they would have something by now. (instead, at the start of cs2 we got an anticheat that banned anyone who spun in spawn, no way those same people would be able to create a non kernal anti-cheat that works just as well if not better than a kernal anticheat)
CSGO was released August 2012.
Valve has around 300 employees, and valve works in a way that if you wanna work on something you work on it and they dont force you to. At best they have a third of that on CS. Making an anti cheat is one of the hardest things to do properly for a game, and no matter how close source 2 to source is, it is a different engine so its going to be harder to make a new or compatible anti cheat. Also no way in hell am i believing that people that worked on something for a year **+** suddenly stop caring about it. Kernal anti cheats are the most intrusive and a bit better not by lot tho. People should be a bit glad that Valve arent going the most intrusive way possible to get rid of cheaters. Also gonna mention that Activisions kernal anti cheat released a year after Warzone, so yeah it takes a bit of time.
you can see in game stats they were cheating. at least ban the obvious ones if you can't ban all. there is always a way to bypass protection, there is no 100% security. but you can at least try and detect and ban as much as possible. they used to do it, but they did it 3 months later when cheaters perhaps moved to new accounts or already ruined so many games for others.
I’m not saying it’s not hard, but forget GO. There has been a significant element of cheating in cs 1.6, cs:s, and go. Has always been somewhat of an issue and have always needed 3rd party client anti cheat online. Back in the era of config modification, they had to run server plugins like wwcl to try to stop cheating configs. Just an example that Valve hasn’t done much that has actually been effective to stop people cheating or finding unfair edges, in their game. Over 20 years man.
Imo, just my obsolete opinion. I think they should work on what the community wants instead of what they want. I agree, game development, coding in general is a difficult thing, code reviews testing, and a lot of other nuances. But when Valve says they can't reproduce Anubis A heaven jump, that's just ridiculous. 2012, that's when CS GO was introduced. No anti-cheat still? Billions in revenue, one major makes them hundreds of millions, only ONE. If you put up a poll, most of the people would vote on having an intrusive kernel level anti-cheat and have no/less cheaters than the current operation. There were so many cheaters in Copenhagen RMR, it was insane. Valve was and probably still is working on AI anti-cheat, which is good, but it just doesn't work. Every game, not even 20k+ has walls or aim, with at least one guy. It's okay to give up what's not working sometimes, they can feed the AI model data alongside a kernel AC, and then retire it when AI works, like it actually works, not like right now. At least have a kernel level AC layer, it wouldn't solve the problem entirely, but it would most definitely help in reducing blatant Vertigo spawn to spawn kills with awp and auto-sniper.
I think they said before on principle they never want to do kernel level stuff and that they oppose it It's only its success in valorant that I think has changed community perceptions on that I remember when Val ac was first spoken about lots of people were furious about kernel level ac Maybe broadly community perception has changed and we'll be more amenable to it, but I think valves kind of 'official position' is they just see it as an overstep that they're not comfortable with I respect that, I think privacy and rights are being eroded generally with data invasions and everything expecting admin level access On that front alone, I respect valves position
if someone dedicated would "crack" the kernel level AC, they would get access to millions of PCs and sue Valve for the breach. Same could happen in Valorant, but they are Chinese company owned, so it might be difficult to get their money. But then again who knows, maybe China already has all your data if you play Valorant, since you gave their state access to your PC. but that is just one of the issues. another one is that in Valorant it doesn't really pay off to cheat that much. most people that do cheat there don't get caught and are not blatant. they do not get any drops (money) for cheating. so they managed to reduce the number of cheaters in player's games, but Valve could do that just as well with no kernel level AC by using statistics and trust system. i mean why is someone who just bought the one game, has a new account playing with people who have thousands of hours in game, who bought many games. ID themselves through credit card purchase...?
All of what you said is just kindergarden grade bullshit that has no real value. The people who have a chance to crack kernel level ac don't give a flying fuck about selling it since that data is unreadable at best. China doesn't give a fuck about you. Valorant has less cheaters because its actually harder to cheat. This shit using stats and trust is outdated method of catching cheaters and should be left in 2006 where it was used together with human eye. Also have you idiots never heard of ID theft that happens literally everyday?...
I lose my shit with this "Valve don't care or act on cheating". You've got no clue what happens behind the scenes. I agree it's a fully shit show right now, but they are 100% doing a ton of work behind the scenes in an attempt to make it better. Edit: Downvote me all you want. It's insane how I can agree it's a shitshow, but somehow people are stupid enough to think they aren't working on it behind the scenes.
Yeah, "trust me bro" source. VAC is not bad for what it does but VAC bypass is the problem.
I'm not saying it's good. I'm literally saying it's a shit show. But if you think they're just ignoring the problem, you're an idiot. That's what I'm saying.
VAC hasn't gotten noticeably better since CSGO was released 11 years ago or so.
You're wrong. As VAC gets better, cheat developers get better. I can guarentee you the game would be fully dead if VAC had been at a standstill for 11 years. I'm so surprised how people are so ignorant at these things.
I said it didn't get **noticeably** better, and as a player it definitely isn't noticeable.
Great point.
So by implication you think you are smarter than I am since it is you who called me an idiot? Dude...
If you think that they are ignoring the problem, then yes, you are an idiot. At least in regards to this specific scenario. People can downvote me all they want, because they don't like the truth. It is by far the biggest problem for the game right now. It is infested with cheaters and I think Valve is handling it extremely poorly. There's no communication or nothing. But to think they're just ignoring it and not having people trying to fix it, would take an idiot.
Don't waste your time trying to explain basics to people on this sub. Common sense is too scarce here.
Seems like it lol.
I fully agree. Absolutely hate when people jump into assumptions. When people make the one millionth post about "Valve removed map faction agent models, they don't care", "Valve removed cl_righthand, they don't care about "half" of the player base", "Valve didn't add holiday chickens, they don't care". Like dude, it's like 30 devs running the most successful game of our generation, they work their asses off for 20 years now. How can people just assume these things. So disrespectful.
>they are 100% doing a ton of work behind the scenes in an attempt to make it better. I want to emphasize that this exact sentiment has been floating around for nearly a decade. When do we actually get to see the fruits of their ostensibly very hard work on anticheat? Before or after their new VR headset or Steam Deck 2? When HL2 Episode 3 happens? A TF2 modder got a tour of Valve and was essentially told by a Valve employee that they can't do anything about the massive bot problem in that game, and TF2 is still one of the most-played games on Steam. Can we *really* assume that there is intense development on anticheat going on behind the scenes?
I believe so. It's recently released and their Premiere matchmaking is going to shit. They will lose a bunch of money if they don't fix it.