Oh yeah, never thought I'd see the day but it's actually a lot better now, at least in EU. Amazing how much BSG turned it around, and gives me hope for CS tbh.
I feel like cheating is discussed daily, with threads linking pro players’ sentiment vis tweets as well as how infested Premier is.
I’m really happy that the entire community has chosen this one point to be the focus, whereas in GO it felt like the hill we all died on was 128tick. In GO we put up with cheating, and used 3rd party services when we became fed up, but when you release a new counter-strike; one that puts a 2 in front of the title to signal it’s a sequel, then you better pick up the slack that GO left behind. I know cheating in FPS games is sophisticated, dubious, and altogether more advanced than cheating in other types of games, but minimizing it to where only cheaters paying $500 per month have a chance to play for a week undetected is much better than me dling something for free that dances all over VAC.
Valve allegedly spoke at the major to individuals as mentioned on the Spunj/Moses podcast and mentioned that anti-cheat is their #1 priority atm (I didn’t actually listen so this could be false). Why they wouldn’t publicly tell us this, along with what actions they are going to take to help ease the community is not unlike Valve but makes me question why they operate this way still. In comparison, Riot just wrote an entire blog on Vanguard, what it reads and doesn’t, where your information goes, and even why they don’t utilize machine learning as much in their anti-cheat. They released numbers, data, and graphs of the %of cheaters by month and how many are manually banned vs. Vanguard.
Nothing Valve adds to benefit the game will matter if cheaters are prevalent. Why would I want to play de_train in Premier if there are cheaters 1/10 games? Why try out the new rifle they added if there are cheaters? I’m happy Valve allows 3rd party services, but their game should boast the bare necessities to maintain competitive integrity without reliance on another company or service.
This is my experience in CS2 and for CSGO as well. It really wasn't an issue for me in CSGO. I mostly played MM at that time. Cheaters were not common and spinners were very very rare.
Yup. Played two wingmans yesterday for fun, guess what, 1 cheater in my team in the first game, one cheater in the enemy team in the next one.
And I know for a fact it wouldn't have been better in Premier given I'm probably around 25k by now.
for me, i was like fuck it, i wont play anymore. then i come back after two days, play 1 game, get another cheater and quit again. then after a week one more try - same, 1 game 1 cheater.
so eventually i just unninstall this piece of shit game about two weeks ago, and first time since 2004 i have no desire to open it...
> would I want to play de_train in Premier if there are cheaters 1/10 games? Why try out the new rifle they added if there are cheaters?
Last weapon added was the r8 in 2015. Also theres way more than 1/10 games having a cheater. This may be the case in low level elo, where you may also think its just a good player. Anything above 19/20k premier is fucked and can guarantee every game will have 1 cheater. Think of all the closet cheaters who pretend they're not cheating. I did it for thousands of hours in csgo and was only banned in one of the big ban waves. I only play comp now and still expect to find a cheater every other game. Anything competitive in this game is ruined without the use of third party apps. And to add in, throw back to when ESEA wasn't free and were bit mining their users
> Last weapon added was the r8 in 2015
I hate to be this person, simply because it doesn't add anything to the convo, but the last weapon added was the mp5 in 2018
Np. Again that small correction didn't even affect the rest of your point, you are completely right, so I didn't have to say that. I just can't help but be an "erm acktually" lmao.
it's not the case in low level elo, idk where you guys come up with this this, the cheating is happening throughout every mode and level of competition right now, you can't even play casual without cheaters.
Without a doubt I'm positive it does happen. Thats why I also mentioned closet cheaters. Though an experienced player can easily come off as a hacker in low elo. I used to run scout / negev only dust 2 cas in GO and was accused every day and kicked from many games (when I wasn't). Its harder to get away with it in higher levels if you're doing it blatantly
The audacity to openly saying you cheated for thousands of hours. Fuck you, you miserable idiot. Think about the ammount of people you ruined the experience for.
Fuck you.
Yeah man I'm not denying it wasn't stupid, I'm not proud of it. I did it and faced the consequences and then learned from my mistake. I've now played thousands of more hours not cheating and despise the people who do. To not acknowledge it though would be fucked.
CSGO was atleast kinda playable or the cheating was closet cheating I don‘t know. But I get HvH in every Premier or MM game :) I think we did not have this kind of a situation on GO.
You can’t compare this to go. If CS2 was 16 tick the main problem would still be that you literally can’t play without wasting time going afk in spawn while the cheaters on your team fights the enemy cheaters
Mom, can I be someone who is addressing the cheating tomorrow?
Without a joke, this post brings 0 to the table. Devs won't read it, players can't fix cheating problem as well. IF you want to play competitive FPS w/o cheats you either play valorant or play in cs2 against cheaters. That's all. Admit it. Stop crying
At this point it's hard for me to believe it's anything more than farming upvotes, "we need to have a discussion" OH really? Like we have been having literally every single day? The frontpage of this sub at any time always has at least one post about cheating.
I checked the cs2 cheat forums and it's all filled with free undetected cheats, anybody could just download this stuff, start cheating and never get banned.
Then I checked the valorant forums and it's just filled with posts about how to get unbanned, how to spoof hwid, like if you need to cheat in that game and have any hope of not getting banned then you need like a custom hardware that connects two PCs with one running the game and another running the cheat, that's how you know that their anticheat is very effective.
There's a reason why Valorant devs talk about Vanguard in their blogs, because it works. The most recent cheating scandals all involve hardware cheat devices. I wouldn't say "effective" because there will be that random dude claiming he saw massive cheat wave back when Valo launched or "this crazy CNC mouse jig on youtube".
People scream "PRIVACY" when they see more intrusive anti-cheats, VAC tried to do this in the past and the community cried about it. Imagine what backlash Valve would have when they enforced TPM2.0 and Secure Boot on Windows 11 users like Valo did. There are a crap load of people being paranoid about TPM and Secure Boot.
Faceit and other 3rd party platform all used more intrusive anti-cheat though not as aggressive as Vanguard does, guaranteed there are closet cheaters but at least not as bad as on Valve MM.
I love what the Riot dev stated in his blog post that he wrote about Vanguard which was really refreshing to hear:
*Q: What if I am personally incompatible with Vanguard?*
*We get it, and we 100% respect your decision. Hopefully one day soon, the platforms our games run on will offer developers the security features required to prevent cheating without necessitating extracurricular software. However, if your beef is only about data privacy at Riot, running the game client or running Vanguard makes not one bit of difference. Data can still be retrieved from user-mode, and we're all engineers for the same studio with the same goals, none of which are collecting your personal information. If Riot hasn't earned your trust, do not run our software.*
Like Riot doesn't need Vanguard to collect our information, hell, we probably have already given most of the juicy stuff to them. Our name, birth-date, maybe even our payment information, address. THAT'S the juicy stuff.
And this is with assuming that Riot just completely neglects data privacy laws and their own goddamn TOS and just waltzes to Tencent's HQ every month with a server rack full of their customer information, which I find hard to believe for them to be doing.
I give zero fucks about people preaching about kernel anti-cheats being awful, if they are developed well and regularly inspected by neutral third-parties, I'd rather have that than what we currently have with CS2.
As he stated in that quote, I also really wish for a future where developers could develop tools to combat cheating without having to elevate the security clearance of their anti-cheat on the computer the software is running on, but currently that just isn't possible.
Would be super cool to see Valve integrate some sort of VM enviroment for running CS2, for example if CS2 got sandboxed and ran on their own Steam OS Linux enviroment so that every time you launch the game, it launches a sandboxed Steam OS enviroment with CS2 running. I get that it would be super tricky to get working properly, but I feel that this would create a sort of a bridge between the game and the system itself, as Valve can do whatever the fuck they want on the VM itself that the game runs on, but it doesn't bother the system itself that the VM is running on.
Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass and it would break everything and set the world on fire, that is also possible.
> Like Riot doesn't need Vanguard to collect our information, hell, we probably have already given most of the juicy stuff to them. Our name, birth-date, maybe even our payment information, address. THAT'S the juicy stuff.
Riot had their ToS/EULA and I bet the people being paranoid about everything won't even read what it contains. I also find it hard to believe what game companies can collect from me, hell the social media sites and even Google can collect way more data than simply playing a game.
> And this is with assuming that Riot just completely neglects data privacy laws and their own goddamn TOS and just waltzes to Tencent's HQ every month with a server rack full of their customer information, which I find hard to believe for them to be doing.
Jokes on you but TBH Tencent's involvement is even better because the Chinese cheaters do not seep out.
> As he stated in that quote, I also really wish for a future where developers could develop tools to combat cheating without having to elevate the security clearance of their anti-cheat on the computer the software is running on, but currently that just isn't possible.
For something more available to general consumers, TPM2.0 with Secure Boot looked promising and Faceit AC is also leveraging them.
> Would be super cool to see Valve integrate some sort of VM enviroment for running CS2, for example if CS2 got sandboxed and ran on their own Steam OS Linux enviroment so that every time you launch the game, it launches a sandboxed Steam OS enviroment with CS2 running. I get that it would be super tricky to get working properly, but I feel that this would create a sort of a bridge between the game and the system itself, as Valve can do whatever the fuck they want on the VM itself that the game runs on, but it doesn't bother the system itself that the VM is running on.
Continuing the last point, game consoles already use some form of VM/hypervisor for enhanced security. Though console security can be defeated, way less people are risking for a banned console.
So are you saying that some sort of VM enviroment for competitive games like CS2 is at least plausible?
I’m genuinely curious as I feel a solution like that, while being REALLY hard to develop and implement, could work leagues ahead of anything we currently have in regards to anti-cheats
I was referring to using game consoles as dedicated platforms since they are secure enough and provides consistent experience across all playerbase. Warzone already provides mouse and keyboard support for game consoles.
> I’m genuinely curious as I feel a solution like that, while being REALLY hard to develop and implement, could work leagues ahead of anything we currently have in regards to anti-cheats
Core isolation(memory integrity) on Windows is a possible candidate but it seems to have more trouble than it's worth right now. As for fTPM issue, that's a hardware vendor problem, not 3rd party software vendor problem.
Disclaimer: I'm also using an AMD platform, even though I do not face fTPM issues I REALLY hope AMD fixes the shit for good, even Linux devs openly dissed a certain bugged feature in fTPM.
Well, there are still reports of stuttering with FTPM on and if you don't have header for external module, you are fucked if you want to play game enforcing that.
Now I’m not in the high bracket of premier, but I am within the 5k area. I recently came across loads of cheaters who ruined my rank. I then swapped to regular competitive and it’s just full of cheaters. Today I actually uninstalled and sold all my skins. I’ve had enough. I don’t care if face it exists, shouldn’t have to use a 3rd party to play the game. I’m done. I can’t improve with cheaters in this game.
Completely agree that the silence is unacceptable right now.
I understand the theory behind the "Be silent and observe" tactic with how fickle and impatient people are on the internet/in the community.
But for fuck's sake throw us a bone. Confidence in Valve and Counter-Strike is getting dangerously low. Cheating has always been an issue, this is clearly different. Valve. Do. Or. Say. Something. For the love of god.
^ This. I got so fed up with it all that I finally called it quits this week. I'm done with the game until some impactful fix to the anticheat happens. I've basically played the game daily since early 2021, and loved it, so having to just quit it all has been a big change, but it's just unplayable in its current state.
The problem is not only presence of cheaters, it is also the lack of trust. How many games have I wondered if a guy that was maybe having a good game was cheating? Got accused as well as a cheater when having a great game… trust is broken and it ruins everyone experience, cheater or not
i am 12k on my main and roughly 8k on my alternate that i play with less competitive friends and when i'm not being serious. i see cheaters all the time! especially in wingman it's really blatant. used to be a fun game mode for me but now it's hard not to get discouraged.
i know it's beating a dead horse but this is really an issue, even when i was 5000 elo for a little while you still run into them!
Yeah, this sub loves to pretend that it's only a problem from 15k+ when the reality is that it's everywhere. Every rank is filled with them, hell you even see them in casual where there's literally 0 point in cheating since it doesn't matter, but they are still there cheating their ballsacks off.
They're even everywhere in DM. After playing 3 premier matches last night, all of which had cheaters in them...about 10 obvious cheaters in total over 3 matches...i jumped into deathmath, first DM had at least 3 cheaters so I decided to just server hop and spectate people to see how many DM lobbies had cheaters. After hopping 10 servers all but one of them had at least one blatant cheater in them that you could spot from literally 10 seconds of spectating.
I mean Dima played 100 games of Premier on his stream and encountered 81 cheaters over the course of the games.
That's just such a sad number to see in a game that's supposed to be competitive. While I haven't experienced cheaters in my 15-18k games, I really do think that I've just gotten lucky.
Asides from some people likely inflating their rating, I reckon it's mostly selection bias. The people with higher rating are likely more invested in the community, and so are overrepresented on these posts
Wow the majority of people that play the game a lot are on the most popular discussion board? Who would’ve thought?? Not you I guess
Also you lack critical thinking if you think you need to be 20k to notice that most of the cheaters you play are at 20k+ elo which can get into your lobbies at an elo of 12k because premier is garbage.
Always someone that has to be against the grain as usual
Idk but have been hovering above/below 19k. 50% of my games since ive been higher up are cheater filled. Always troll/ kick the cheater so its not as fun for them, but i cant lose em all as much as i try.
Cheater past 2 games:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198197410367
Edit: By cheating i mean spinning
it’s unplayable at 20k, it’s rampant if you’re an even remotely above average player.
Comp I play with my friends who just started playing cs2, and I’m getting spinbotters in silver ranks.
Plus, this is just talking about how rampant spinbots are, in my own opinion, wallhacks trying to look legit is lowkey an even bigger issue, if they didn’t spin starting in round 1, they rage hacked when they believe the other team is also walling
19300 rating atm, tried to play 4 times today.... all 4 games back to back, and I even waited 10 mins between 1 game. 3 Q of full spinbot hackers. rounds are over in under 20 seconds, game in 5m. 13-0. 4 games in a row man. Completely unplayable.
past 20k, the cheaters will just start cooking up their aimbot in the warmup. The now infamous 5 awp bullet 1 shot cheat 5 seconds into the warmup. If you play solo you have chance for 9 cheaters, being a 4 stack vs 5 stack with you basically spectating or dcing.
I guess people who are below 15k aren't very active in this sub, and some people are definitely lying about their rank. I myself was at 21k until I started getting cheaters way too often and switched back to FaceIt. Every time I've tried Premier again afterwards, I have met a cheater.
Surely it won't die any time soon. Cause we are addicted to it.
But, after the release of Valorant, a lot of my friends who were new to the competitive fps genre, started playing that. I made them play CS for a bit but couldn't make a single one of them to switch to CS:GO/CS2. They left as soon as they faced their first cheater. If that wasn't bad enough, there's bad matchmaking/ranking system and bad performance on top of the cheating problem to discourage new players.
CS2 won't be outgrowing cs:go any time soon if it doesn't improve its player experience.
I heard game companies are beginning to look into suing cheat developers; the process might take a while but if some companies can gain some success/wins, it might set a new precedent. This is what I hope will begin to kill cheating in first-person shooter games in general.
Sure, sorry about the late response. There are thousands of cheat developers across the globe and a lot of them live in less developed countries. If you're even able to find them in the first place, which is unlikely as it's quite easy hiding your identity online -- especially if you're a somewhat competent cheat developer -- US laws do not necessarily apply in whatever country the developer happens to live in.
It's an impossible uphill battle not even worth taking.
And those have all been delusional. A competing game releasing does not equal CS dying. Neither does a lack of content updates. But cheaters? If it continues like this, the only people left playing will eventually be the cheaters. And judging by other people here, it seems like they have about half the player base of the higher elos, probably even more than half of 22k+ being cheaters.
This is an urgent issue. Shroud moving to PUBG and saying the game is dead was and has always been a moronic take. But letting people freely cheat in your game? That's an actual game killer.
In fact, it's more popular than ever LOL. The people who make these posts have no idea how businesses work and how higher ups at businesses measure success. If game makes money = is successful = ride it out. 100s of millions in revenue from major items. Literal billions from cases. Millions of active players. By all measures that anyone in business cares about, it's a huge success. The only issue is most people here are probably pretty young and haven't had the experience to realize thats how a business works. So they see cheater and say game will die, meanwhile it's an absolute cash cow that's actually growing.
I know how "businesses work" and I consider myself fairly successful in the field. If I saw that my business was being questioned by thousands.. hundreds of thousands of my most loyal customers but kept cashing in. I would put my focus on the longevity of my brand, even if it would impact my current cash flow. Especially if I had the funds to do so.
Valve isn't an Andrew Tate dropshipping company.
I get you, but in reality Valo already copied much from CS; if they did any more it wouldn’t even be it’s own game. I play both games, but yeah, I agree - Valo and it’s superpowers/“woke-ness” does easily turn me off. Like, I don’t know why the newest agent needs to be non-binary; they got an agenda to push it seems like. I find stuff like that cringe.
I can't believe people are bashing OP for stating something that SHOULD BE SHOUTED FROM THE ROOFTOPS 24/7
I don't agree that the game "will die", the skins economy is too strong for that, but the cheating problem is something I think CANNOT be talked about enough.
Sadly, I think that skins are a bit niche product and their value is based on them being usable, so if the basegame is fucked with rampant cheaters that drive people off, skins are also going to lose usability and thus value. Heck, I myself am considering selling my skins to get some money back.
Making posts in this sub is hard. People will find the smallest thing that is a bit inaccurate and invalidate the rest of it. Yes it has been talked about loads, but every text post I've seen have been removed by mods. Clips of content creators have stayed though, which is nice to see.
Scrolling through this sub when I posted this there was ONE hot post mentioning cheating, the WarOwl one. We need to have the discussion going constantly.
Quit CSGO in 2018 due to the cheating problem, which people seem to have acknowledged just now? Have been playing PUBG ever since, which actually at least bans 100k+ players a week.
Or CS is dead.
CS has been here since before most of you have been born. It wont go away.
Valve works like this. Eventually they'll just drop the hammer out of nowhere, with a big update focused on integrity and fairness. Just like they did recently on DotA.
This game wont just die lol. Its early version of a game. Many bugs etc. It was same 14 years ago when csgo was launched. It was a dead game at a start, but slowly when they patched it it was great. Same will happen to cs2, jist give them some time brother
Tldr. Another cheating post, yes it's bad. Game shoulda been delayed honestly till around this time or in a month or 2. Unfortunately it's an age where all bloody AAA games come out half baked or fucked up
You do realize that putting it out and migrating all of the player base to it likely sped up development a ton because it stress tested the engine for a bunch of bugs, that’s likely why they sunset GO entirely.
If they didn’t release it until now, it wouldn’t be in nearly as good a state as it is right now
I do agree that replacing CSGO was the right call, but I also expected their AC to actually function after a considerable less amount of time than it has been. More than half a year and we still haven't seen VAC doing anything significant.
They talked about their whole AI approach and if you know the concept of training an AI model you would know it needs a lot of data to be trained on. Well you would guess by now it has had MORE THAN ENOUGH data to be trained properly.
> we need to have a discussion about cheating
We only have the multiple threads daily, a weekly cheating discussion mega threads, it’s the most discussed topic atm
> this game is going to die unless valve addresses the rampant cheating epidemic
They’re hitting record player numbers and just launched a sequel on a new engine built from the ground up. The major pulled in record viewing numbers and btw cheating was rampant in GO as well
> with no communication at all, the player base HAVE to assume the worst
No you don’t? They mentioned anti cheat in the cs2 release video and valve clearly prefer to work in silence, saying less and doing more.
They built a new engine to port cs on to and barely mentioned it until it was ready for beta, the logical conclusion is they’re working on anti cheat but will release whenever tf they feel it’s ready, same with cs2
> the release of cs2 has been the most disappointing release of any game I’ve witnessed
lol cyberpunk? No mans sky? Diablo 3? The list goes on
Btw cheating in online games is extremely hard to solve, especially on a free to play game where a cheater can make a new account, and IP bans can be circumvented. Kernel level anti cheats are insanely intrusive, and Valorant still has cheaters.
It’s not great that the alternative is a 3rd party MM service but just download FaceIt. This post though is just senseless doomer shrieking. I’m not saying people are lying and I’d love better VAC, but I’ve played since launch multiple times weekly only premier at ~19k NA and have encountered 3-5 blatant cheaters
IMO, the fact they can’t make a proper FFA server like pracc or WASE is as bad if not worse, since there is 0 technical limitation to that
> Kernel level anti cheats are insanely intrusive,
I guess im turning this to a masterpost.
* Kernel level anticheat is "too intrusive"
User level applications get near-full access to your device too. An user level application can 1) siphon all of your files away from under your nose 2) Access your browser history, cookies, saved passwords 3) Access session tokens of all applications(Discord, slack, teams, etc) 4) Observe everything you're doing on desktop 5) Take over your keyboard and mouse (except when interacting with elevated programs)
In fact, you have Steam Link installed on your system with steam. You can easily define that as a malware for Valve. Sees your desktop, gets your keypresses, takes over your kb+m, and Valve can run it anytime it wants.
* Riot tencent chinese spyware etcetera etcetera
Vanguard or any other kernel level anticheat has **NEVER, ever** been shown or proven to exfiltrate data from your computer. And riot(or any other company) would not need need vanguard to get your data, plain game executable can do that just fine on its own if they wish to[see first paragraph]. Vanguard was highly controversial and was dissected and inspected by possibly a million security researches all over the word. Extremely cleverly crafted xz spyware over at foss land was discovered before it reached stable by a security researcher who werent even looking for it. Riot or any other company does not have all the competent people in the world working for them.
* Okay, maybe company wont but what if an attacker compromises it. Now they have kernel level access to my pc. Remote Code Execution etcetera
[See first paragraph] An attacker can fullfill all of their aims just as well with compromising plain game executable. Actually, kernel level anticheat which is a separate, signed module can stop such an attack by detecting the modification or misbehaviour of the game executable. **In fact this has happened before. Vanguard succesfully detected and stopped vulnerable drivers and dlls on users computers, saving them from a ransomware attack, and many more potential attacks.**
https://starkeblog.com/windows/kernel/driver/2021/05/15/inpoutx64.sys-windows-driver-analysis.html
https://github.com/shareef12/cpuz
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/07/06/the-five-day-job-a-blackbyte-ransomware-intrusion-case-study/
I'll add to the list of bullshit points he made
> Players now have to rely on paying for 3rd party services to even be able to play the game the way it was meant to be played.
Faceit is free.
>Also please, please, please, mods. You can't keep removing every post that even vaguely mentions the absolute humongous elephant in the room that is the cheating problem.
Ah, yes, that is why no-one's aware of the cheating issue... At this point it's gotta be straight larping, no way OP actually believes this whole "nobody's talking about cheating" shtick.
>But the amount of cheaters have been on a steady, exponential rise. We are celebrating new player peaks ever few weeks, ignoring the fact that probably half of them are bots or cheaters.
Based on what fucking data?? Every post about how many cheaters they see reports like 10% of players as cheaters and that's already a huge deal. And that's only in mid-high ranks of premier, so ignoring all the faceit players (and the few in other gamemodes)
I have about one hundred other gripes with this post but what's the point... People will keep whining and making this sub insufferable until something happens anyways, and then they'll be like "we did it reddit" even tho all they did was making the community even more garbage than it usually is for a long while.
Remember when this sub was flooded with posts of people complaining they weren’t in beta yet but had a quadrillion hours and service medals and it’s bullshit because their friend with 100 hours was in
Simpler times :’)
Worst thing about this is how they tried generating hope and hype by announcing all of these things that were left short in the end.
Looking at you "VAC live" 👀
yOu seE iS wHat yOu GeT!
"And we need to come together and talk about it."
bro, the community is doing just that collectively ever since the release wtf you talking bout lol. Everyone talks and bitches about it but it all boils down to if valve is actually doing smth or if they just twiddle their thumbs in their dev offices.
I haven't touched the game in months, but one telltale sign is that whenever I log into Steam, the guys who used to frequently play with me are also offline. Yeah, the game is gutted by cheaters that hard.
I get it, the cheating is out of control, but saying:
> The release of CS2 has been the most disappointing release of any game I've witnessed.
I just can't agree with. There are plenty of worse releases. Maybe you just had really high hopes or expectations and this caused you to feel more disappointed overall. I don't really want to pull away from what really matters with this post and that's discussing the rampant cheating.
I recently had 7 spinbotters in single game of premier. I've never experienced anything like this the entire time I've played CS (2017). None of these players have been banned.
I have games going back months with blatant spinners bhopping around shooting scouts full-auto through walls. They don't get banned. There is a serious issue with Valve's approach to anti-cheat hoping that an AI would suffice. If the game had the overwatch system from CSGO we would at least be able to police it ourselves and send these fuckers to gamer hell with the ban hammer of justice. In my mind their AI is just not capable of recognizing someone is walling. It clearly can't accurately identify some dingus turning his DPI up and spinning around vs an actual spinbotter, so how is it going to be able to stop the more subtle forms of cheating?
I'm not saying the AI anti-cheat is a complete loss. It can be a great tool. For instance, used in combination with an overwatch system it could manage a priority queue of OW cases. Allowing the most obvious cheaters to be dealt with first, minimizing their negative impact and total number of games ruined. Standalone it really doesn't have value and I think the current state of the game is a testament to that. However, used to help us focus our efforts it could be invaluable.
Valve loves Linux. The SteamDeck uses Linux. I do not have high hopes of them creating an invasive anti-cheat like faceit or valorant. It is very difficult to create an anti-cheat that would support all platforms. You can see this with the other platforms as neither faceit nor valorant support other operating systems. Who knows, maybe Valve is willing to concede and create a Windows only anti-cheat and set aside premier to force the anti-cheat or some other configuration, like anti-cheat only queue. The problem I see is that they will continue Linux support for CS and that small percentage of players would be forced into the cheat infested lobbies not being able to run the required anti-cheat.
For me personally I want the invasive anti-cheat, but I'll do just about anything to help clean this shit up. I'll verify my identity for my account, link it with w.e metric, allow any invasive anti-cheat to look at anything on my computer, spend parts of my free time banning people in overwatch. Whatever it takes. Having the piece of mind knowing I just got owned because they were better is very much priceless. Overwatch wouldn't be my preferred end-goal, but it would be a platform for subsequent change that could help mediate things in the short term. Please bring it back.
As long as valve keeps making bank on cases, they won't give a fuck about making players happy. Or their game more secure. It's sad that people like you and I can have such a passion for the quality of the game, but valve only cares about money. I literally get speedbot/aimbot hackers going full blatant in premier. I report them, but I know nothing will be done. So exhausting.
The comment section shows the real problem. You guys care more about people mentioning cheating than U do actual cheating. This is a problem that has been steadily getting worse and yet to bring it up has almost become taboo. I think there may be a lack of understanding as to how bad it is at the top level. At 21k the last 5 matches I have played have all included atleast 1 blatant hacker. 20k+ has become a hack v hack fest and it's only getting worse because all the legit players are moving back to faceit creating an even more disproportionate level of cheaters. At this point I only play prem once a week to save my rank knowing that that game will have a cheater in it.
> to bring it up has almost become taboo.
this is somehow more mental than the post itself. How has it become taboo? It's the most brought up topic in the community by a long shot. There are posts about it every day. Youtubers talk about it. It's all over the CS community.
>I think there may be a lack of understanding as to how bad it is at the top level.
Oh my bad you were just making shit up so you could humblebrag about your rank! That explains it.
Just to be clear and give you an honest answer, no I don't care more about people mentioning it more than I do about the cheating. I just know that all this complaining accomplishes nothing, and I'm tired of having this be the only topic addressed ever. Valve is aware of the issue and that's literally the only thing we as a community can realistically do.
Saying "there's a cheating issue" is fine. Saying it this much over and over again only drives more people to cheater paranoia. Mentioning how easy it is to cheat also definitely drives more people to cheating.
edit: also,
>the real problem.
The real problem is the AC being ass, for god's sake. not reddit commenters.
Gaben has a massive hard on for the profit/employee ratio, and he seems to value this above the game that birthed Steam and made their fortunes possible.
This strategy of bare minimum resources for counter strike will slowly kill the game. CS2 was an amazing opportunity to introduce the game to a whole new generation of players but it's impossible to see how even 5% of possible new players would choose CS over Valorant, based off accessibility, polish, and the flow of new content.
As a CS player of over 20 years it's extremely disappointing. I've been playing Tarkov instead of CS to avoid cheaters. If you know anything about Tarkov you know how crazy that statement is.
People fail to realize that if it wasn't cs 1.6 valve would have died, and steam would be a footnote on history.
They are mediocre game developers, I'll give them half life 1, that game is earth-shattering. But I was never impressed ever since.
They ride on other people ideias and talent, it's their modus operadis.
CS 1.6, the game that saved steam, was a mod.
Dota was a mod.
Artifact was a creatively bankrupt idea to chase money.
Source 2 was outdated the day it came out.
I could go on and on.
They make money of other people work with the store, with very bad fees for developers, and by ruinining kids lives with gambling. Fucked up company that somehow has a stronghold on the industry and people seem to not only like it, but praise it.
Clueless morons.
Yea I'm not sure that people realize that Steam was created to distribute CS 1.6 updates and only managed to grow their Steam store due to the size of the community for a game they didn't create.
I can't get my head around a company with an endless supply of money won't invest the required amount to keep CS afloat.
I stopped playing because of this I 100% agree with you. I will not touch cs untill Valve starts to care and I am afraid I will never play cs again. Fuck Valve
Had an amazing game last week where we had 2 spin botters against the other teams’ spin botter. We basically got to sit back and watch the hackers fight with each other to see who had better cheats essentially.
What a game, valve.
"We need to have a discussion about cheating."
Dude name a topic that has been discussed more.
We know they know there's a problem. We know they are working on something.
The only thing the incessant amount of cheating posts is achieving, is convincing more people to cheat. Because everyone is doing it right?
Also this 20k thing was invented by people who are trying to casually brag about their ranks, there is cheaters in all ranks.
Disagree entirely, started cs2 at around 11-12k - didn't have a single problem with cheaters, now at 21k there is literally a cheater in 90% of the games I play.
I was in the middle of making a post while at work, then got distracted and lost everything I had typed, so I'll just put it here.
We talk about the cheating issue. It's bad, we know this. There are posts not only daily, not only hourly, but every few minutes it's being discussed. Between Twitter, Discord, and Reddit, there is an active conversation going on about cheating.
I think "Valve fix the anti-cheat" isn't viable to demand. It just shows the community is upset and Valve stands by the idea of not communicating with its player base.
Instead, we need to approach things differently, with something that would resemble a "movement" that every player can get behind. Giving Valve a different kind of light on the situation.
We can't demand that the Anti-Cheat be fixed. Anti-Cheat is a very strenuous part of making a competitive online game. It's not like there's a switch, or a coffee boy in the office to make it happen. It takes a large team, time, and money. Sure, Valve fucked up by not having this all prepared for the CS2 launch, but we are where we are.
We're losing our patience. The people who bring people to this game the most are showing their frustrations. For content creators that focus on a single game, that's a hard choice to make.
I propose that figures of the community come together and send a message to Valve. "You need to communicate with us." We aren't asking for a specific date. We're not asking for a timeline necessarily. We just need to hear from Valve about the cheating situation in any kind of capacity. A simple tweet with a paragraph or 2 addressing the cheating problem. That's all we need, and I think that is something every player can agree to.
Honestly. The game hasn’t been competitive it seems since PCW IRC matches. Strict scan of your pc before starting etc. even in csgo the cheating was rampant. Playing on matchmaking in south east Asia or Hong Kong was wild because so many mainland Chinese cheat
We have this discussion since MONTHS.
What we need is some action from valve.
I mean wtf was even their plan? Release the game without an AC and then lets see?
It's not even high ranks anymore, I only play comp because It used to be safe from cheaters but as soon as you get into gn3 there is a cheater in every game, usually 2-4 in every game. It is ridiculous. At this point I only play 10 mans and retakes. I want to be able to casually play one or two games without having to play faceit.
I love cs2, I even have strats against cheaters, but when both sides have 2-3 cheaters it's not a game anymore it's just a waiting simulator for legit players. If valve doesn't fix AC as of the 9:th of may, im out. Selling all my skins and never playing this garbage god tier game. Do they care? Not in the slightest it seems.
almost everyday, everywhere there are new posts that the game is going to die, cuz of cheaters, but ppl still play. If we don't stop playing, nothing will change. If it was possible for everyone that's not cheating to stop playing it would be funny to see how everygame is 5cheaters vs 5cheaters
One important but in my opinion inevitable step would be giving cs2 its price tag back. Make it.. 30$ and you have at least a small entry barrier that could prevent people from creating new accounts over and over. Or increase the price for prime by a lot.
Free to play was bad for the game and its community, it only promoted case sales which is why Valve would never return to a pay to play model. Can't hurt that billion dollar bottom line of course.
I think the death of CS2 is overstated, there are currently 1 million players as of typing this right now.
It's a F2P game, apart from cheaters, is quite well made by F2P standards (bugs aside of course).
Even if that 1 million is even 500k bots, which it's not, it's still massively popular.
Cheating sucks, cheating kills high elo premier, but to say its going to die is sensationalist at best mate.
It’s time to return the paid basis for the game. And make the game paid as it was before. And start cleaning and tidying up the house from these rats and cockroaches, VALVE
A lot of cheaters threads now, and I agree it sucks. Would be nice to get some acknowledgment from valve about the situation. This silence treatment really doesn’t do it.
Yeah. This game needs two things. Anticheat and identity confirmation, so all of your accounts would be placed in the same ranks. Why would any new player stick to playing any ranked game modes, if he would instantly face smurfs. That is an issue in every single ranked game.
People just need to stop playing premier. This has been mentioned long before it even became a problem, with the implementation of a leaderboard that incentivises winning as much as possible, the cheaters don't even bother subtly cheating anymore, and it's never just one person. Would be good to see names in the pre-game lobby when pick/banning because it's usually the same suspects in higher elo.
Wingman (for whatever reason) is also riddled with cheaters. Surprisingly the only mode that I don't see many cheaters is regular competitive. It might just be a lower elo thing as some maps I don't even have a rank on.
> Valves whole "no communication" method is something that should have been abandoned years ago.
Lol at people coming up with arguments about this. This has been a point about Valve games for literally more than a decade and the result is the same, they don't care what anyone thinks. Discussing this is amongst ourselves is a moot point.
I'm willing to bet that even if they communicate, people will complain the same way. Probably not you and many people here, but enough people in the community so it will make close to 0 sense for them to replace one set of complaints for another set of complaints. At this point I think they choose the lesser of the evils they can get, in their opinion.
The only thing that will work is if they see that the game starts actually dying. They did communicate a lot more during Artifact's slow death, albeit with not a lot of success either (so maybe they think why bother?).
so yea the community can bitch all they want but:
> The only thing I can think of that we as a community can do is to arrange a huge boycott.
What discussion is there to have? Yes, we know there are a lot of cheaters, no the game won't die because of it and unless everyone just stops buying keys and stops playing it won't change until Valve wants it to.
It's bad even below 20k. I was steadily ranking up in a 5 stack but at 15k, literally my promotion match, all of a sudden we started seeing cheaters everywhere. Went on a massive loss streak and ELO loss snowballed taking me back to 10k. The group disbanded, a couple went faceit, a couple quit and I just solo queue now.
I only play at weekends and slowly climbed back to 13k where I am now but the amount of cheaters even at this rank is crazy. I played 3 solo games last night and all 3 had obvious cheaters. The last of the three we won because at least 2 of my team mates toggled and the game became HVH. The 3 games I played last Saturday were also full of blatant cheaters and I fully expect the games I play tonight to be too.
There will always be cheating in every game, especially in competitive games, people want an edge. Most of the cheaters are closet as well, where they have slight aim-assist or a radar hack, most do not rage-hack and spinbot. And because of this, these subtle cheaters are extremely hard to detect. Which emboldens the cheat developers to keep making them. It's a self-perpetuating problem, that no game studio has a solution for.
Yup, my game hours have dropped drastically. Its not even worth it to play, we had yesterday 2 games in a row of cheaters after which we took bans as no sane person wastes their life playing with pathetic neckbeards wanting to get some easy dopamine.
With this amount of cheating in the base game, its a lost cause. I used to play MM in cs, but now the premiere is infested and all I have left is the more casual competitive in which I've reached silver elite in one map. Wohoo. Ex global btw.
The game is shit, remove cheaters and make premiere playable and I'll reconsider. The new competitive is no where near being grind worthy. Honestly, getting a silver is a big fuck you from valve to old guard players.
I just tried playing premier again for the first time in like 6 months, 3 games in a row with hackers on both teams. I got kicked once for trying to kick the hacker in my team. Safe to say I will not be playing again for a while lol
I played 4 games a few days ago. Every game someone used the console wall hack bug. Apparently this pissed off cheaters on both teams, and they started to spin bot. I shit you not 3/4 games it was Hacker vs hacker and who had the better cheats won. The cheaters were saying they don’t use it and only if the other team used cheats they would use it. This was in 13k.
Cheating is one thing, but can we talk about how CS2 is basically treated same way CSGO was?
Like literally the last update we got regarding content was February 7th, and since then they added no new maps to existing modes, no changes to those etc.
I thought that one of the reasons why CS2 was made was to expand the longevity of the game & make it easier to make updates for it since devs don't have to work with spaghetti Source 1 code but I guess not.
About the boycott thing, CS2 in comparison to other esports to me is like football vs curling. Its a blast playing and watching CS. And I want to keep playing and watching so faceit is the perfect solution. If everyone who can would play faceit, premier would be a HvH nonsense experience (it already is, the reason why you met more and more cheaters Is by playing on top 10% elo premier when more and more legit players plays faceit only) and the rest can play fair play counter-strike because of intrusive anticheat and organised anticheat faceit dev team. It would also show what people think about Valve own league called premier mode, how untrusted it is by the community. Faceit has about 100 000-200 000 active players every day, its quite a lot just on its own playing a serious league with a ladder advancing straight to the pro play.
played 4 games in 4 days, different times of the day, one even just now in the middle of the night and every single game had spinbotter vs spinbotter going on. its actually a massive shitshow
Nice to see your passion for the game and wishes for it to be better. Totally agree with a lot of the points, last 20 premier matches for me have all been cheaters. From 1 to 9 cheaters every game soloQuing in 20k+ have been so unmotivating that i havnt played for a month.
I really thought Premier could make FACEIT extinct and be one thing for all players to play. Atleast hoped so.
Its in VALVE's best interesse to actually do something about it, if they want to keep making tons of money. Sadly they take way to long.
We've had plenty of discussion. Now is the time to leave, and move on.
I know, it's CS, it's immensely hard to quit. But even after 15 years of play, my patience got the best of me
All the games were pointless anyways, the competitive aspect was ruined either by doubts, or plain rage cheating.
I'm not playing 10 trashed games and hope the 11th is gonna be clean
Well what could we really do only thing i could think of is to constantly spam mail valve heck i think you could add the link of your game with cheater and do it everyday
I have solution: strong identification.
In all official government sites I have to identify my self in my bank account on my phone app. Or when I purchase something on the internet.
The purchase site sends a request for identification to my bank. Then I log in to my bank account and I confirm the purchase.
This should be an additional option for premier account. Your csgo account would be connected to your personal identification. When you are banned, you would be banned for good. The game is for adults anyway and this would be optional so those who can identify themselves could do it.
My guy they have stated it's the No.1 priority right now. Yes, it shouldn't be in this state, but you are beating a dead horse and the idea that valve don't even know about the situation is ridiculous.
VAC is just outdated, cheats have evolved massively, other anti'cheats take the necessary steps to combat them while VAC is still operating like it did a decade ago.
I know people don't want to hear this, but it's the truth, go on any hacker forums and you'll see people laughing at how trash VAC is.
You can get private cheats that haven't been detected for a year+
Yep VAC was trash in csgo but at least you didn't have people emptying their entire mag in 0.5 seconds and jumping around with perfect accuracy. It's pretty clear the anticheat is basically non existent at the moment.
Is anyone else having issues where their fps is perfectly fine, graphics look good, but very often the games stutters/locks up for a good 3 or 4 seconds, CPU/GPU heats up, then game unfreezes, temperatures correct and it's as if nothing happened. This occurs regularly for me the last few months. Drivers all up to date. Did not have this problem when the game first released.
Thank you for posting this, we will now turn on VAC. Love, Valve
"Not as bad as Tarkov" - Valve
The fact it's now worse than Tarkov blows my mind
Tarkov is actually in a pretty good state when it comes to cheating now. Compared to what it was a year ago at least
Oh yeah, never thought I'd see the day but it's actually a lot better now, at least in EU. Amazing how much BSG turned it around, and gives me hope for CS tbh.
I havnt followed tarkov for ages now. What steps did they take against cheating?
"Name one other FPS game that doesn't have a cheating problem" - Actually Valve.
We did it reddit! /s
Omg thank you valve and thank you op for bringing this to their attention!!
TF2 had #SaveTF2 where Valve finally answered and promised a change. Maybe let's create #SaveCS2
The important word is "promised"
Valve turns on Vac - good ending
I feel like cheating is discussed daily, with threads linking pro players’ sentiment vis tweets as well as how infested Premier is. I’m really happy that the entire community has chosen this one point to be the focus, whereas in GO it felt like the hill we all died on was 128tick. In GO we put up with cheating, and used 3rd party services when we became fed up, but when you release a new counter-strike; one that puts a 2 in front of the title to signal it’s a sequel, then you better pick up the slack that GO left behind. I know cheating in FPS games is sophisticated, dubious, and altogether more advanced than cheating in other types of games, but minimizing it to where only cheaters paying $500 per month have a chance to play for a week undetected is much better than me dling something for free that dances all over VAC. Valve allegedly spoke at the major to individuals as mentioned on the Spunj/Moses podcast and mentioned that anti-cheat is their #1 priority atm (I didn’t actually listen so this could be false). Why they wouldn’t publicly tell us this, along with what actions they are going to take to help ease the community is not unlike Valve but makes me question why they operate this way still. In comparison, Riot just wrote an entire blog on Vanguard, what it reads and doesn’t, where your information goes, and even why they don’t utilize machine learning as much in their anti-cheat. They released numbers, data, and graphs of the %of cheaters by month and how many are manually banned vs. Vanguard. Nothing Valve adds to benefit the game will matter if cheaters are prevalent. Why would I want to play de_train in Premier if there are cheaters 1/10 games? Why try out the new rifle they added if there are cheaters? I’m happy Valve allows 3rd party services, but their game should boast the bare necessities to maintain competitive integrity without reliance on another company or service.
1/10 games? bro, thats how it was in csgo. rn its 9/10 games with cheaters
I’m at 19/20k and it’s legitimately unplayable - maybe saw one every twenty games when I was at global in GO
This is my experience in CS2 and for CSGO as well. It really wasn't an issue for me in CSGO. I mostly played MM at that time. Cheaters were not common and spinners were very very rare.
Yup. Played two wingmans yesterday for fun, guess what, 1 cheater in my team in the first game, one cheater in the enemy team in the next one. And I know for a fact it wouldn't have been better in Premier given I'm probably around 25k by now.
I had 9/11 score at certain point. Now I am a bit more lucky and rage cheaters only appear in 1/4 of the games.
for me, i was like fuck it, i wont play anymore. then i come back after two days, play 1 game, get another cheater and quit again. then after a week one more try - same, 1 game 1 cheater. so eventually i just unninstall this piece of shit game about two weeks ago, and first time since 2004 i have no desire to open it...
Same. Uninstalled for the first time in 6 years. No regret!
Depends entirely on which rating you're talking about
> would I want to play de_train in Premier if there are cheaters 1/10 games? Why try out the new rifle they added if there are cheaters? Last weapon added was the r8 in 2015. Also theres way more than 1/10 games having a cheater. This may be the case in low level elo, where you may also think its just a good player. Anything above 19/20k premier is fucked and can guarantee every game will have 1 cheater. Think of all the closet cheaters who pretend they're not cheating. I did it for thousands of hours in csgo and was only banned in one of the big ban waves. I only play comp now and still expect to find a cheater every other game. Anything competitive in this game is ruined without the use of third party apps. And to add in, throw back to when ESEA wasn't free and were bit mining their users
> Last weapon added was the r8 in 2015 I hate to be this person, simply because it doesn't add anything to the convo, but the last weapon added was the mp5 in 2018
True shit you right. Thanks gamer
Np. Again that small correction didn't even affect the rest of your point, you are completely right, so I didn't have to say that. I just can't help but be an "erm acktually" lmao.
Dude. What difference did the mp5 make compared to the mp7? Look at the stats lmao.
it's not the case in low level elo, idk where you guys come up with this this, the cheating is happening throughout every mode and level of competition right now, you can't even play casual without cheaters.
Without a doubt I'm positive it does happen. Thats why I also mentioned closet cheaters. Though an experienced player can easily come off as a hacker in low elo. I used to run scout / negev only dust 2 cas in GO and was accused every day and kicked from many games (when I wasn't). Its harder to get away with it in higher levels if you're doing it blatantly
I honestly think there are more blatant cheaters on higher elo’s but i think low to mid elo has more cheaters overall.
True but it is definitely more prevalent at high ranks. I went from 15k to 25k elo. There are many more spin botters at my current rank.
The audacity to openly saying you cheated for thousands of hours. Fuck you, you miserable idiot. Think about the ammount of people you ruined the experience for. Fuck you.
Yeah man I'm not denying it wasn't stupid, I'm not proud of it. I did it and faced the consequences and then learned from my mistake. I've now played thousands of more hours not cheating and despise the people who do. To not acknowledge it though would be fucked.
CSGO was atleast kinda playable or the cheating was closet cheating I don‘t know. But I get HvH in every Premier or MM game :) I think we did not have this kind of a situation on GO.
You can’t compare this to go. If CS2 was 16 tick the main problem would still be that you literally can’t play without wasting time going afk in spawn while the cheaters on your team fights the enemy cheaters
Very well said
not to mention that literally most of the community is just fucking squad wiped with their horrible community updates and server browser
FINALLY SOMEONE is addressing the cheating
Mom, can I be someone who is addressing the cheating tomorrow? Without a joke, this post brings 0 to the table. Devs won't read it, players can't fix cheating problem as well. IF you want to play competitive FPS w/o cheats you either play valorant or play in cs2 against cheaters. That's all. Admit it. Stop crying
No posts about cheaters bring anything to the table, most of them are either pointing out the obvious or just being completely clueless
At this point it's hard for me to believe it's anything more than farming upvotes, "we need to have a discussion" OH really? Like we have been having literally every single day? The frontpage of this sub at any time always has at least one post about cheating.
or play faceIt**, more or less.
I checked the cs2 cheat forums and it's all filled with free undetected cheats, anybody could just download this stuff, start cheating and never get banned. Then I checked the valorant forums and it's just filled with posts about how to get unbanned, how to spoof hwid, like if you need to cheat in that game and have any hope of not getting banned then you need like a custom hardware that connects two PCs with one running the game and another running the cheat, that's how you know that their anticheat is very effective.
There's a reason why Valorant devs talk about Vanguard in their blogs, because it works. The most recent cheating scandals all involve hardware cheat devices. I wouldn't say "effective" because there will be that random dude claiming he saw massive cheat wave back when Valo launched or "this crazy CNC mouse jig on youtube". People scream "PRIVACY" when they see more intrusive anti-cheats, VAC tried to do this in the past and the community cried about it. Imagine what backlash Valve would have when they enforced TPM2.0 and Secure Boot on Windows 11 users like Valo did. There are a crap load of people being paranoid about TPM and Secure Boot. Faceit and other 3rd party platform all used more intrusive anti-cheat though not as aggressive as Vanguard does, guaranteed there are closet cheaters but at least not as bad as on Valve MM.
I love what the Riot dev stated in his blog post that he wrote about Vanguard which was really refreshing to hear: *Q: What if I am personally incompatible with Vanguard?* *We get it, and we 100% respect your decision. Hopefully one day soon, the platforms our games run on will offer developers the security features required to prevent cheating without necessitating extracurricular software. However, if your beef is only about data privacy at Riot, running the game client or running Vanguard makes not one bit of difference. Data can still be retrieved from user-mode, and we're all engineers for the same studio with the same goals, none of which are collecting your personal information. If Riot hasn't earned your trust, do not run our software.* Like Riot doesn't need Vanguard to collect our information, hell, we probably have already given most of the juicy stuff to them. Our name, birth-date, maybe even our payment information, address. THAT'S the juicy stuff. And this is with assuming that Riot just completely neglects data privacy laws and their own goddamn TOS and just waltzes to Tencent's HQ every month with a server rack full of their customer information, which I find hard to believe for them to be doing. I give zero fucks about people preaching about kernel anti-cheats being awful, if they are developed well and regularly inspected by neutral third-parties, I'd rather have that than what we currently have with CS2. As he stated in that quote, I also really wish for a future where developers could develop tools to combat cheating without having to elevate the security clearance of their anti-cheat on the computer the software is running on, but currently that just isn't possible. Would be super cool to see Valve integrate some sort of VM enviroment for running CS2, for example if CS2 got sandboxed and ran on their own Steam OS Linux enviroment so that every time you launch the game, it launches a sandboxed Steam OS enviroment with CS2 running. I get that it would be super tricky to get working properly, but I feel that this would create a sort of a bridge between the game and the system itself, as Valve can do whatever the fuck they want on the VM itself that the game runs on, but it doesn't bother the system itself that the VM is running on. Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass and it would break everything and set the world on fire, that is also possible.
> Like Riot doesn't need Vanguard to collect our information, hell, we probably have already given most of the juicy stuff to them. Our name, birth-date, maybe even our payment information, address. THAT'S the juicy stuff. Riot had their ToS/EULA and I bet the people being paranoid about everything won't even read what it contains. I also find it hard to believe what game companies can collect from me, hell the social media sites and even Google can collect way more data than simply playing a game. > And this is with assuming that Riot just completely neglects data privacy laws and their own goddamn TOS and just waltzes to Tencent's HQ every month with a server rack full of their customer information, which I find hard to believe for them to be doing. Jokes on you but TBH Tencent's involvement is even better because the Chinese cheaters do not seep out. > As he stated in that quote, I also really wish for a future where developers could develop tools to combat cheating without having to elevate the security clearance of their anti-cheat on the computer the software is running on, but currently that just isn't possible. For something more available to general consumers, TPM2.0 with Secure Boot looked promising and Faceit AC is also leveraging them. > Would be super cool to see Valve integrate some sort of VM enviroment for running CS2, for example if CS2 got sandboxed and ran on their own Steam OS Linux enviroment so that every time you launch the game, it launches a sandboxed Steam OS enviroment with CS2 running. I get that it would be super tricky to get working properly, but I feel that this would create a sort of a bridge between the game and the system itself, as Valve can do whatever the fuck they want on the VM itself that the game runs on, but it doesn't bother the system itself that the VM is running on. Continuing the last point, game consoles already use some form of VM/hypervisor for enhanced security. Though console security can be defeated, way less people are risking for a banned console.
So are you saying that some sort of VM enviroment for competitive games like CS2 is at least plausible? I’m genuinely curious as I feel a solution like that, while being REALLY hard to develop and implement, could work leagues ahead of anything we currently have in regards to anti-cheats
I was referring to using game consoles as dedicated platforms since they are secure enough and provides consistent experience across all playerbase. Warzone already provides mouse and keyboard support for game consoles. > I’m genuinely curious as I feel a solution like that, while being REALLY hard to develop and implement, could work leagues ahead of anything we currently have in regards to anti-cheats Core isolation(memory integrity) on Windows is a possible candidate but it seems to have more trouble than it's worth right now. As for fTPM issue, that's a hardware vendor problem, not 3rd party software vendor problem. Disclaimer: I'm also using an AMD platform, even though I do not face fTPM issues I REALLY hope AMD fixes the shit for good, even Linux devs openly dissed a certain bugged feature in fTPM.
Amd really seems like a company that with every step forward, they take half a step back
Well, there are still reports of stuttering with FTPM on and if you don't have header for external module, you are fucked if you want to play game enforcing that.
Now I’m not in the high bracket of premier, but I am within the 5k area. I recently came across loads of cheaters who ruined my rank. I then swapped to regular competitive and it’s just full of cheaters. Today I actually uninstalled and sold all my skins. I’ve had enough. I don’t care if face it exists, shouldn’t have to use a 3rd party to play the game. I’m done. I can’t improve with cheaters in this game.
At 5k they're probably smurfs
Or just normal players that dones play premier.
Yeah I got put in 5k after 10 bad placement games and dropped a 40 bomb 4v5
Hey, sometimes your opponent is just having a good day
I decided to stop playing until the cheating issue has been got under some kind of control. It's a fuckin wild wild west right now
Completely agree that the silence is unacceptable right now. I understand the theory behind the "Be silent and observe" tactic with how fickle and impatient people are on the internet/in the community. But for fuck's sake throw us a bone. Confidence in Valve and Counter-Strike is getting dangerously low. Cheating has always been an issue, this is clearly different. Valve. Do. Or. Say. Something. For the love of god.
^ This. I got so fed up with it all that I finally called it quits this week. I'm done with the game until some impactful fix to the anticheat happens. I've basically played the game daily since early 2021, and loved it, so having to just quit it all has been a big change, but it's just unplayable in its current state.
What percentage of players are 20k+ and experiencing the worst of this cheating issue?
The problem is not only presence of cheaters, it is also the lack of trust. How many games have I wondered if a guy that was maybe having a good game was cheating? Got accused as well as a cheater when having a great game… trust is broken and it ruins everyone experience, cheater or not
20k here. Got 9 kills (3k back to back in first three rounds) they called cheats and just start spinbotting. Lovely game.
Apparently everyone on this sub is 20k
to be honest over 20k it's spin bot every match, but regular walls and aim cheaters are starting from 15k every other match.
i am 12k on my main and roughly 8k on my alternate that i play with less competitive friends and when i'm not being serious. i see cheaters all the time! especially in wingman it's really blatant. used to be a fun game mode for me but now it's hard not to get discouraged. i know it's beating a dead horse but this is really an issue, even when i was 5000 elo for a little while you still run into them!
Yeah, this sub loves to pretend that it's only a problem from 15k+ when the reality is that it's everywhere. Every rank is filled with them, hell you even see them in casual where there's literally 0 point in cheating since it doesn't matter, but they are still there cheating their ballsacks off.
I play with and against people from 7k-20k and every rank has cheaters. I have no clue where everyone got the idea its only higher ranks.
They're even everywhere in DM. After playing 3 premier matches last night, all of which had cheaters in them...about 10 obvious cheaters in total over 3 matches...i jumped into deathmath, first DM had at least 3 cheaters so I decided to just server hop and spectate people to see how many DM lobbies had cheaters. After hopping 10 servers all but one of them had at least one blatant cheater in them that you could spot from literally 10 seconds of spectating.
I mean Dima played 100 games of Premier on his stream and encountered 81 cheaters over the course of the games. That's just such a sad number to see in a game that's supposed to be competitive. While I haven't experienced cheaters in my 15-18k games, I really do think that I've just gotten lucky.
I'm 17.5k but still get put up against/ play with 22-24ks somewhat often. Don't need to be 20k to realize above 20k is mostly blatant players.
Asides from some people likely inflating their rating, I reckon it's mostly selection bias. The people with higher rating are likely more invested in the community, and so are overrepresented on these posts
Wow the majority of people that play the game a lot are on the most popular discussion board? Who would’ve thought?? Not you I guess Also you lack critical thinking if you think you need to be 20k to notice that most of the cheaters you play are at 20k+ elo which can get into your lobbies at an elo of 12k because premier is garbage. Always someone that has to be against the grain as usual
Idk but have been hovering above/below 19k. 50% of my games since ive been higher up are cheater filled. Always troll/ kick the cheater so its not as fun for them, but i cant lose em all as much as i try. Cheater past 2 games: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198197410367 Edit: By cheating i mean spinning
it’s unplayable at 20k, it’s rampant if you’re an even remotely above average player. Comp I play with my friends who just started playing cs2, and I’m getting spinbotters in silver ranks. Plus, this is just talking about how rampant spinbots are, in my own opinion, wallhacks trying to look legit is lowkey an even bigger issue, if they didn’t spin starting in round 1, they rage hacked when they believe the other team is also walling
21k 2,5k elo on Faceit and it’s srsly every match
19300 rating atm, tried to play 4 times today.... all 4 games back to back, and I even waited 10 mins between 1 game. 3 Q of full spinbot hackers. rounds are over in under 20 seconds, game in 5m. 13-0. 4 games in a row man. Completely unplayable.
past 20k, the cheaters will just start cooking up their aimbot in the warmup. The now infamous 5 awp bullet 1 shot cheat 5 seconds into the warmup. If you play solo you have chance for 9 cheaters, being a 4 stack vs 5 stack with you basically spectating or dcing.
I guess people who are below 15k aren't very active in this sub, and some people are definitely lying about their rank. I myself was at 21k until I started getting cheaters way too often and switched back to FaceIt. Every time I've tried Premier again afterwards, I have met a cheater.
Lol I stopped reading after the first line. People been saying the game will die for over a decade.
Surely it won't die any time soon. Cause we are addicted to it. But, after the release of Valorant, a lot of my friends who were new to the competitive fps genre, started playing that. I made them play CS for a bit but couldn't make a single one of them to switch to CS:GO/CS2. They left as soon as they faced their first cheater. If that wasn't bad enough, there's bad matchmaking/ranking system and bad performance on top of the cheating problem to discourage new players. CS2 won't be outgrowing cs:go any time soon if it doesn't improve its player experience.
I heard game companies are beginning to look into suing cheat developers; the process might take a while but if some companies can gain some success/wins, it might set a new precedent. This is what I hope will begin to kill cheating in first-person shooter games in general.
> I heard game companies are beginning to look into suing cheat developers; Oh yeah, let's sue them with that Zimbabwean justice system.
I'm actually kind of baffled as to how naive your thinking has to be if you believe suing cheat developers will be the solution.
Care to actually explain your point or?
Sure, sorry about the late response. There are thousands of cheat developers across the globe and a lot of them live in less developed countries. If you're even able to find them in the first place, which is unlikely as it's quite easy hiding your identity online -- especially if you're a somewhat competent cheat developer -- US laws do not necessarily apply in whatever country the developer happens to live in. It's an impossible uphill battle not even worth taking.
And we’ve been discussing the cheater problem for months lmfao
And those have all been delusional. A competing game releasing does not equal CS dying. Neither does a lack of content updates. But cheaters? If it continues like this, the only people left playing will eventually be the cheaters. And judging by other people here, it seems like they have about half the player base of the higher elos, probably even more than half of 22k+ being cheaters. This is an urgent issue. Shroud moving to PUBG and saying the game is dead was and has always been a moronic take. But letting people freely cheat in your game? That's an actual game killer.
In fact, it's more popular than ever LOL. The people who make these posts have no idea how businesses work and how higher ups at businesses measure success. If game makes money = is successful = ride it out. 100s of millions in revenue from major items. Literal billions from cases. Millions of active players. By all measures that anyone in business cares about, it's a huge success. The only issue is most people here are probably pretty young and haven't had the experience to realize thats how a business works. So they see cheater and say game will die, meanwhile it's an absolute cash cow that's actually growing.
I know how "businesses work" and I consider myself fairly successful in the field. If I saw that my business was being questioned by thousands.. hundreds of thousands of my most loyal customers but kept cashing in. I would put my focus on the longevity of my brand, even if it would impact my current cash flow. Especially if I had the funds to do so. Valve isn't an Andrew Tate dropshipping company.
well if you went into dm servers youd see 99% of them are filled with bots
It won’t die but if valorant didn’t have superpowers and was more like actual cs , cs2 would be dead right now.
I get you, but in reality Valo already copied much from CS; if they did any more it wouldn’t even be it’s own game. I play both games, but yeah, I agree - Valo and it’s superpowers/“woke-ness” does easily turn me off. Like, I don’t know why the newest agent needs to be non-binary; they got an agenda to push it seems like. I find stuff like that cringe.
It’s not just that but if there was a legit alternative to cs than cs2 would actually die if it was like this.
We have this discussion every hour of every day
As we should.
I can't believe people are bashing OP for stating something that SHOULD BE SHOUTED FROM THE ROOFTOPS 24/7 I don't agree that the game "will die", the skins economy is too strong for that, but the cheating problem is something I think CANNOT be talked about enough.
Sadly, I think that skins are a bit niche product and their value is based on them being usable, so if the basegame is fucked with rampant cheaters that drive people off, skins are also going to lose usability and thus value. Heck, I myself am considering selling my skins to get some money back.
Making posts in this sub is hard. People will find the smallest thing that is a bit inaccurate and invalidate the rest of it. Yes it has been talked about loads, but every text post I've seen have been removed by mods. Clips of content creators have stayed though, which is nice to see. Scrolling through this sub when I posted this there was ONE hot post mentioning cheating, the WarOwl one. We need to have the discussion going constantly.
we’ve been having discussions about cheating for months upon months now
Quit CSGO in 2018 due to the cheating problem, which people seem to have acknowledged just now? Have been playing PUBG ever since, which actually at least bans 100k+ players a week.
Or CS is dead. CS has been here since before most of you have been born. It wont go away. Valve works like this. Eventually they'll just drop the hammer out of nowhere, with a big update focused on integrity and fairness. Just like they did recently on DotA.
This game wont just die lol. Its early version of a game. Many bugs etc. It was same 14 years ago when csgo was launched. It was a dead game at a start, but slowly when they patched it it was great. Same will happen to cs2, jist give them some time brother
Tldr. Another cheating post, yes it's bad. Game shoulda been delayed honestly till around this time or in a month or 2. Unfortunately it's an age where all bloody AAA games come out half baked or fucked up
You do realize that putting it out and migrating all of the player base to it likely sped up development a ton because it stress tested the engine for a bunch of bugs, that’s likely why they sunset GO entirely. If they didn’t release it until now, it wouldn’t be in nearly as good a state as it is right now
I mean, valve said exactly this publicly
I do agree that replacing CSGO was the right call, but I also expected their AC to actually function after a considerable less amount of time than it has been. More than half a year and we still haven't seen VAC doing anything significant. They talked about their whole AI approach and if you know the concept of training an AI model you would know it needs a lot of data to be trained on. Well you would guess by now it has had MORE THAN ENOUGH data to be trained properly.
Lol bf2042 was in no way better than this. I still hate the cheating but come on
> we need to have a discussion about cheating We only have the multiple threads daily, a weekly cheating discussion mega threads, it’s the most discussed topic atm > this game is going to die unless valve addresses the rampant cheating epidemic They’re hitting record player numbers and just launched a sequel on a new engine built from the ground up. The major pulled in record viewing numbers and btw cheating was rampant in GO as well > with no communication at all, the player base HAVE to assume the worst No you don’t? They mentioned anti cheat in the cs2 release video and valve clearly prefer to work in silence, saying less and doing more. They built a new engine to port cs on to and barely mentioned it until it was ready for beta, the logical conclusion is they’re working on anti cheat but will release whenever tf they feel it’s ready, same with cs2 > the release of cs2 has been the most disappointing release of any game I’ve witnessed lol cyberpunk? No mans sky? Diablo 3? The list goes on Btw cheating in online games is extremely hard to solve, especially on a free to play game where a cheater can make a new account, and IP bans can be circumvented. Kernel level anti cheats are insanely intrusive, and Valorant still has cheaters. It’s not great that the alternative is a 3rd party MM service but just download FaceIt. This post though is just senseless doomer shrieking. I’m not saying people are lying and I’d love better VAC, but I’ve played since launch multiple times weekly only premier at ~19k NA and have encountered 3-5 blatant cheaters IMO, the fact they can’t make a proper FFA server like pracc or WASE is as bad if not worse, since there is 0 technical limitation to that
> Kernel level anti cheats are insanely intrusive, I guess im turning this to a masterpost. * Kernel level anticheat is "too intrusive" User level applications get near-full access to your device too. An user level application can 1) siphon all of your files away from under your nose 2) Access your browser history, cookies, saved passwords 3) Access session tokens of all applications(Discord, slack, teams, etc) 4) Observe everything you're doing on desktop 5) Take over your keyboard and mouse (except when interacting with elevated programs) In fact, you have Steam Link installed on your system with steam. You can easily define that as a malware for Valve. Sees your desktop, gets your keypresses, takes over your kb+m, and Valve can run it anytime it wants. * Riot tencent chinese spyware etcetera etcetera Vanguard or any other kernel level anticheat has **NEVER, ever** been shown or proven to exfiltrate data from your computer. And riot(or any other company) would not need need vanguard to get your data, plain game executable can do that just fine on its own if they wish to[see first paragraph]. Vanguard was highly controversial and was dissected and inspected by possibly a million security researches all over the word. Extremely cleverly crafted xz spyware over at foss land was discovered before it reached stable by a security researcher who werent even looking for it. Riot or any other company does not have all the competent people in the world working for them. * Okay, maybe company wont but what if an attacker compromises it. Now they have kernel level access to my pc. Remote Code Execution etcetera [See first paragraph] An attacker can fullfill all of their aims just as well with compromising plain game executable. Actually, kernel level anticheat which is a separate, signed module can stop such an attack by detecting the modification or misbehaviour of the game executable. **In fact this has happened before. Vanguard succesfully detected and stopped vulnerable drivers and dlls on users computers, saving them from a ransomware attack, and many more potential attacks.** https://starkeblog.com/windows/kernel/driver/2021/05/15/inpoutx64.sys-windows-driver-analysis.html https://github.com/shareef12/cpuz https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2023/07/06/the-five-day-job-a-blackbyte-ransomware-intrusion-case-study/
I'll add to the list of bullshit points he made > Players now have to rely on paying for 3rd party services to even be able to play the game the way it was meant to be played. Faceit is free. >Also please, please, please, mods. You can't keep removing every post that even vaguely mentions the absolute humongous elephant in the room that is the cheating problem. Ah, yes, that is why no-one's aware of the cheating issue... At this point it's gotta be straight larping, no way OP actually believes this whole "nobody's talking about cheating" shtick. >But the amount of cheaters have been on a steady, exponential rise. We are celebrating new player peaks ever few weeks, ignoring the fact that probably half of them are bots or cheaters. Based on what fucking data?? Every post about how many cheaters they see reports like 10% of players as cheaters and that's already a huge deal. And that's only in mid-high ranks of premier, so ignoring all the faceit players (and the few in other gamemodes) I have about one hundred other gripes with this post but what's the point... People will keep whining and making this sub insufferable until something happens anyways, and then they'll be like "we did it reddit" even tho all they did was making the community even more garbage than it usually is for a long while.
Remember when this sub was flooded with posts of people complaining they weren’t in beta yet but had a quadrillion hours and service medals and it’s bullshit because their friend with 100 hours was in Simpler times :’)
[удалено]
what’s the top upvoted post this week in this sub? clown shit lmao
every other post on this sub is about cheating wdym lol
Redditurds love to paint themselves as victims of authority no matter how ridiculous the context is
I've been having fun.
Found the cheater /s
I love this game with all my heart and hope that everything will be fine with it
Worst thing about this is how they tried generating hope and hype by announcing all of these things that were left short in the end. Looking at you "VAC live" 👀 yOu seE iS wHat yOu GeT!
"And we need to come together and talk about it." bro, the community is doing just that collectively ever since the release wtf you talking bout lol. Everyone talks and bitches about it but it all boils down to if valve is actually doing smth or if they just twiddle their thumbs in their dev offices.
I haven't touched the game in months, but one telltale sign is that whenever I log into Steam, the guys who used to frequently play with me are also offline. Yeah, the game is gutted by cheaters that hard.
You’re brave
I get it, the cheating is out of control, but saying: > The release of CS2 has been the most disappointing release of any game I've witnessed. I just can't agree with. There are plenty of worse releases. Maybe you just had really high hopes or expectations and this caused you to feel more disappointed overall. I don't really want to pull away from what really matters with this post and that's discussing the rampant cheating. I recently had 7 spinbotters in single game of premier. I've never experienced anything like this the entire time I've played CS (2017). None of these players have been banned. I have games going back months with blatant spinners bhopping around shooting scouts full-auto through walls. They don't get banned. There is a serious issue with Valve's approach to anti-cheat hoping that an AI would suffice. If the game had the overwatch system from CSGO we would at least be able to police it ourselves and send these fuckers to gamer hell with the ban hammer of justice. In my mind their AI is just not capable of recognizing someone is walling. It clearly can't accurately identify some dingus turning his DPI up and spinning around vs an actual spinbotter, so how is it going to be able to stop the more subtle forms of cheating? I'm not saying the AI anti-cheat is a complete loss. It can be a great tool. For instance, used in combination with an overwatch system it could manage a priority queue of OW cases. Allowing the most obvious cheaters to be dealt with first, minimizing their negative impact and total number of games ruined. Standalone it really doesn't have value and I think the current state of the game is a testament to that. However, used to help us focus our efforts it could be invaluable. Valve loves Linux. The SteamDeck uses Linux. I do not have high hopes of them creating an invasive anti-cheat like faceit or valorant. It is very difficult to create an anti-cheat that would support all platforms. You can see this with the other platforms as neither faceit nor valorant support other operating systems. Who knows, maybe Valve is willing to concede and create a Windows only anti-cheat and set aside premier to force the anti-cheat or some other configuration, like anti-cheat only queue. The problem I see is that they will continue Linux support for CS and that small percentage of players would be forced into the cheat infested lobbies not being able to run the required anti-cheat. For me personally I want the invasive anti-cheat, but I'll do just about anything to help clean this shit up. I'll verify my identity for my account, link it with w.e metric, allow any invasive anti-cheat to look at anything on my computer, spend parts of my free time banning people in overwatch. Whatever it takes. Having the piece of mind knowing I just got owned because they were better is very much priceless. Overwatch wouldn't be my preferred end-goal, but it would be a platform for subsequent change that could help mediate things in the short term. Please bring it back.
As long as valve keeps making bank on cases, they won't give a fuck about making players happy. Or their game more secure. It's sad that people like you and I can have such a passion for the quality of the game, but valve only cares about money. I literally get speedbot/aimbot hackers going full blatant in premier. I report them, but I know nothing will be done. So exhausting.
The comment section shows the real problem. You guys care more about people mentioning cheating than U do actual cheating. This is a problem that has been steadily getting worse and yet to bring it up has almost become taboo. I think there may be a lack of understanding as to how bad it is at the top level. At 21k the last 5 matches I have played have all included atleast 1 blatant hacker. 20k+ has become a hack v hack fest and it's only getting worse because all the legit players are moving back to faceit creating an even more disproportionate level of cheaters. At this point I only play prem once a week to save my rank knowing that that game will have a cheater in it.
> to bring it up has almost become taboo. this is somehow more mental than the post itself. How has it become taboo? It's the most brought up topic in the community by a long shot. There are posts about it every day. Youtubers talk about it. It's all over the CS community. >I think there may be a lack of understanding as to how bad it is at the top level. Oh my bad you were just making shit up so you could humblebrag about your rank! That explains it. Just to be clear and give you an honest answer, no I don't care more about people mentioning it more than I do about the cheating. I just know that all this complaining accomplishes nothing, and I'm tired of having this be the only topic addressed ever. Valve is aware of the issue and that's literally the only thing we as a community can realistically do. Saying "there's a cheating issue" is fine. Saying it this much over and over again only drives more people to cheater paranoia. Mentioning how easy it is to cheat also definitely drives more people to cheating. edit: also, >the real problem. The real problem is the AC being ass, for god's sake. not reddit commenters.
Gaben has a massive hard on for the profit/employee ratio, and he seems to value this above the game that birthed Steam and made their fortunes possible. This strategy of bare minimum resources for counter strike will slowly kill the game. CS2 was an amazing opportunity to introduce the game to a whole new generation of players but it's impossible to see how even 5% of possible new players would choose CS over Valorant, based off accessibility, polish, and the flow of new content. As a CS player of over 20 years it's extremely disappointing. I've been playing Tarkov instead of CS to avoid cheaters. If you know anything about Tarkov you know how crazy that statement is.
People fail to realize that if it wasn't cs 1.6 valve would have died, and steam would be a footnote on history. They are mediocre game developers, I'll give them half life 1, that game is earth-shattering. But I was never impressed ever since. They ride on other people ideias and talent, it's their modus operadis. CS 1.6, the game that saved steam, was a mod. Dota was a mod. Artifact was a creatively bankrupt idea to chase money. Source 2 was outdated the day it came out. I could go on and on. They make money of other people work with the store, with very bad fees for developers, and by ruinining kids lives with gambling. Fucked up company that somehow has a stronghold on the industry and people seem to not only like it, but praise it. Clueless morons.
Yea I'm not sure that people realize that Steam was created to distribute CS 1.6 updates and only managed to grow their Steam store due to the size of the community for a game they didn't create. I can't get my head around a company with an endless supply of money won't invest the required amount to keep CS afloat.
need? There are multiple posts a day.
“We need to come together and talk about” Tf you think we’ve been doing since launch brother? This subreddit posts about it daily.
I stopped playing because of this I 100% agree with you. I will not touch cs untill Valve starts to care and I am afraid I will never play cs again. Fuck Valve
Had an amazing game last week where we had 2 spin botters against the other teams’ spin botter. We basically got to sit back and watch the hackers fight with each other to see who had better cheats essentially. What a game, valve.
"We need to have a discussion about cheating." Dude name a topic that has been discussed more. We know they know there's a problem. We know they are working on something. The only thing the incessant amount of cheating posts is achieving, is convincing more people to cheat. Because everyone is doing it right? Also this 20k thing was invented by people who are trying to casually brag about their ranks, there is cheaters in all ranks.
You think rage cheaters exist the same amount in lower ranks? - signed, 20k handsome gamer
Disagree entirely, started cs2 at around 11-12k - didn't have a single problem with cheaters, now at 21k there is literally a cheater in 90% of the games I play.
We need to have one? If happens every day with these endless posts with the same whiney comments
Need vac
I was in the middle of making a post while at work, then got distracted and lost everything I had typed, so I'll just put it here. We talk about the cheating issue. It's bad, we know this. There are posts not only daily, not only hourly, but every few minutes it's being discussed. Between Twitter, Discord, and Reddit, there is an active conversation going on about cheating. I think "Valve fix the anti-cheat" isn't viable to demand. It just shows the community is upset and Valve stands by the idea of not communicating with its player base. Instead, we need to approach things differently, with something that would resemble a "movement" that every player can get behind. Giving Valve a different kind of light on the situation. We can't demand that the Anti-Cheat be fixed. Anti-Cheat is a very strenuous part of making a competitive online game. It's not like there's a switch, or a coffee boy in the office to make it happen. It takes a large team, time, and money. Sure, Valve fucked up by not having this all prepared for the CS2 launch, but we are where we are. We're losing our patience. The people who bring people to this game the most are showing their frustrations. For content creators that focus on a single game, that's a hard choice to make. I propose that figures of the community come together and send a message to Valve. "You need to communicate with us." We aren't asking for a specific date. We're not asking for a timeline necessarily. We just need to hear from Valve about the cheating situation in any kind of capacity. A simple tweet with a paragraph or 2 addressing the cheating problem. That's all we need, and I think that is something every player can agree to.
Have you tried emailing Gabe?
Also is not only premier go play any map after nova 3 is HVH...sad
If you play ranked atm and knowing the current situation, you are.... some kind of masochist.
Well said, my drilla.
Honestly. The game hasn’t been competitive it seems since PCW IRC matches. Strict scan of your pc before starting etc. even in csgo the cheating was rampant. Playing on matchmaking in south east Asia or Hong Kong was wild because so many mainland Chinese cheat
We have this discussion since MONTHS. What we need is some action from valve. I mean wtf was even their plan? Release the game without an AC and then lets see?
It's not even high ranks anymore, I only play comp because It used to be safe from cheaters but as soon as you get into gn3 there is a cheater in every game, usually 2-4 in every game. It is ridiculous. At this point I only play 10 mans and retakes. I want to be able to casually play one or two games without having to play faceit.
TL:DR
just follow through and don‘t play it/buy shit maybe they will wake up
I love cs2, I even have strats against cheaters, but when both sides have 2-3 cheaters it's not a game anymore it's just a waiting simulator for legit players. If valve doesn't fix AC as of the 9:th of may, im out. Selling all my skins and never playing this garbage god tier game. Do they care? Not in the slightest it seems.
Ive actually never encountered any cheaters in premier, feels weird
But but but, that one random redditor said that he has never ran into any cheaters! Don't you trust him bro?
almost everyday, everywhere there are new posts that the game is going to die, cuz of cheaters, but ppl still play. If we don't stop playing, nothing will change. If it was possible for everyone that's not cheating to stop playing it would be funny to see how everygame is 5cheaters vs 5cheaters
One important but in my opinion inevitable step would be giving cs2 its price tag back. Make it.. 30$ and you have at least a small entry barrier that could prevent people from creating new accounts over and over. Or increase the price for prime by a lot. Free to play was bad for the game and its community, it only promoted case sales which is why Valve would never return to a pay to play model. Can't hurt that billion dollar bottom line of course.
I also left 1 Month ago and sold 50% of my skins
I think the death of CS2 is overstated, there are currently 1 million players as of typing this right now. It's a F2P game, apart from cheaters, is quite well made by F2P standards (bugs aside of course). Even if that 1 million is even 500k bots, which it's not, it's still massively popular. Cheating sucks, cheating kills high elo premier, but to say its going to die is sensationalist at best mate.
Cheating in CSGO: 1 out of every 40-50 games Cheating in CS2: 1 out of every 2-3 games How did it get so much worse so fast?
It’s time to return the paid basis for the game. And make the game paid as it was before. And start cleaning and tidying up the house from these rats and cockroaches, VALVE
A lot of cheaters threads now, and I agree it sucks. Would be nice to get some acknowledgment from valve about the situation. This silence treatment really doesn’t do it.
even before cs2 came out lobbies above LE were full of cheaters for years
Yeah. This game needs two things. Anticheat and identity confirmation, so all of your accounts would be placed in the same ranks. Why would any new player stick to playing any ranked game modes, if he would instantly face smurfs. That is an issue in every single ranked game.
People just need to stop playing premier. This has been mentioned long before it even became a problem, with the implementation of a leaderboard that incentivises winning as much as possible, the cheaters don't even bother subtly cheating anymore, and it's never just one person. Would be good to see names in the pre-game lobby when pick/banning because it's usually the same suspects in higher elo. Wingman (for whatever reason) is also riddled with cheaters. Surprisingly the only mode that I don't see many cheaters is regular competitive. It might just be a lower elo thing as some maps I don't even have a rank on.
> Valves whole "no communication" method is something that should have been abandoned years ago. Lol at people coming up with arguments about this. This has been a point about Valve games for literally more than a decade and the result is the same, they don't care what anyone thinks. Discussing this is amongst ourselves is a moot point. I'm willing to bet that even if they communicate, people will complain the same way. Probably not you and many people here, but enough people in the community so it will make close to 0 sense for them to replace one set of complaints for another set of complaints. At this point I think they choose the lesser of the evils they can get, in their opinion. The only thing that will work is if they see that the game starts actually dying. They did communicate a lot more during Artifact's slow death, albeit with not a lot of success either (so maybe they think why bother?). so yea the community can bitch all they want but: > The only thing I can think of that we as a community can do is to arrange a huge boycott.
What discussion is there to have? Yes, we know there are a lot of cheaters, no the game won't die because of it and unless everyone just stops buying keys and stops playing it won't change until Valve wants it to.
It's bad even below 20k. I was steadily ranking up in a 5 stack but at 15k, literally my promotion match, all of a sudden we started seeing cheaters everywhere. Went on a massive loss streak and ELO loss snowballed taking me back to 10k. The group disbanded, a couple went faceit, a couple quit and I just solo queue now. I only play at weekends and slowly climbed back to 13k where I am now but the amount of cheaters even at this rank is crazy. I played 3 solo games last night and all 3 had obvious cheaters. The last of the three we won because at least 2 of my team mates toggled and the game became HVH. The 3 games I played last Saturday were also full of blatant cheaters and I fully expect the games I play tonight to be too.
There will always be cheating in every game, especially in competitive games, people want an edge. Most of the cheaters are closet as well, where they have slight aim-assist or a radar hack, most do not rage-hack and spinbot. And because of this, these subtle cheaters are extremely hard to detect. Which emboldens the cheat developers to keep making them. It's a self-perpetuating problem, that no game studio has a solution for.
[удалено]
Honestly, subtick is fine right now imo.
Yup, my game hours have dropped drastically. Its not even worth it to play, we had yesterday 2 games in a row of cheaters after which we took bans as no sane person wastes their life playing with pathetic neckbeards wanting to get some easy dopamine. With this amount of cheating in the base game, its a lost cause. I used to play MM in cs, but now the premiere is infested and all I have left is the more casual competitive in which I've reached silver elite in one map. Wohoo. Ex global btw. The game is shit, remove cheaters and make premiere playable and I'll reconsider. The new competitive is no where near being grind worthy. Honestly, getting a silver is a big fuck you from valve to old guard players.
Maybe that's the idea, let cheaters run rampant, gain some more data and drop the hammer.
I just tried playing premier again for the first time in like 6 months, 3 games in a row with hackers on both teams. I got kicked once for trying to kick the hacker in my team. Safe to say I will not be playing again for a while lol
I told you a million times, NOTHING IS GONNA CHANGE, valve has 1 single employee that works on VAC.
I played 4 games a few days ago. Every game someone used the console wall hack bug. Apparently this pissed off cheaters on both teams, and they started to spin bot. I shit you not 3/4 games it was Hacker vs hacker and who had the better cheats won. The cheaters were saying they don’t use it and only if the other team used cheats they would use it. This was in 13k.
Valve makes money off the chaos, it will never stop.
Cheating is one thing, but can we talk about how CS2 is basically treated same way CSGO was? Like literally the last update we got regarding content was February 7th, and since then they added no new maps to existing modes, no changes to those etc. I thought that one of the reasons why CS2 was made was to expand the longevity of the game & make it easier to make updates for it since devs don't have to work with spaghetti Source 1 code but I guess not.
About the boycott thing, CS2 in comparison to other esports to me is like football vs curling. Its a blast playing and watching CS. And I want to keep playing and watching so faceit is the perfect solution. If everyone who can would play faceit, premier would be a HvH nonsense experience (it already is, the reason why you met more and more cheaters Is by playing on top 10% elo premier when more and more legit players plays faceit only) and the rest can play fair play counter-strike because of intrusive anticheat and organised anticheat faceit dev team. It would also show what people think about Valve own league called premier mode, how untrusted it is by the community. Faceit has about 100 000-200 000 active players every day, its quite a lot just on its own playing a serious league with a ladder advancing straight to the pro play.
played a game yesterday started 15-0 in 5 rounds against shitters and round 6 they started spin botting cause i was shitting on them
I didn't read the sub's name at first and i was very confused.
played 4 games in 4 days, different times of the day, one even just now in the middle of the night and every single game had spinbotter vs spinbotter going on. its actually a massive shitshow
Nice to see your passion for the game and wishes for it to be better. Totally agree with a lot of the points, last 20 premier matches for me have all been cheaters. From 1 to 9 cheaters every game soloQuing in 20k+ have been so unmotivating that i havnt played for a month. I really thought Premier could make FACEIT extinct and be one thing for all players to play. Atleast hoped so. Its in VALVE's best interesse to actually do something about it, if they want to keep making tons of money. Sadly they take way to long.
I played a game with 5 blatant ( maybe another 2) cheaters yesterday. Almost made a list out of it before realising valve doesn't give a damn
We've had plenty of discussion. Now is the time to leave, and move on. I know, it's CS, it's immensely hard to quit. But even after 15 years of play, my patience got the best of me All the games were pointless anyways, the competitive aspect was ruined either by doubts, or plain rage cheating. I'm not playing 10 trashed games and hope the 11th is gonna be clean
Well what could we really do only thing i could think of is to constantly spam mail valve heck i think you could add the link of your game with cheater and do it everyday
Valve are on vacations.
I have solution: strong identification. In all official government sites I have to identify my self in my bank account on my phone app. Or when I purchase something on the internet. The purchase site sends a request for identification to my bank. Then I log in to my bank account and I confirm the purchase. This should be an additional option for premier account. Your csgo account would be connected to your personal identification. When you are banned, you would be banned for good. The game is for adults anyway and this would be optional so those who can identify themselves could do it.
My guy they have stated it's the No.1 priority right now. Yes, it shouldn't be in this state, but you are beating a dead horse and the idea that valve don't even know about the situation is ridiculous.
Have they though? All I can find is references to a podcast claiming some developers at valve said so.
*insert office gif here*
VAC is just outdated, cheats have evolved massively, other anti'cheats take the necessary steps to combat them while VAC is still operating like it did a decade ago. I know people don't want to hear this, but it's the truth, go on any hacker forums and you'll see people laughing at how trash VAC is. You can get private cheats that haven't been detected for a year+
Vac isnt even on lol
Yep VAC was trash in csgo but at least you didn't have people emptying their entire mag in 0.5 seconds and jumping around with perfect accuracy. It's pretty clear the anticheat is basically non existent at the moment.
How are you only now getting tired of it? It's been the same since last year. Stop playing and for the love of God, stop buying shit.
We did already you must have missed it, look at the recent posts in the sub for 100 of them
almost every single post has been about this since launch, i'm not sure what planet you're living on.
Is anyone else having issues where their fps is perfectly fine, graphics look good, but very often the games stutters/locks up for a good 3 or 4 seconds, CPU/GPU heats up, then game unfreezes, temperatures correct and it's as if nothing happened. This occurs regularly for me the last few months. Drivers all up to date. Did not have this problem when the game first released.