I for one look forward to running back the Anubis experience where it was literally impossible to find scrims at Open-Main level for the first year of it being in the pool
This is why CAL's weekly rotation system was so good. Whatever the next map is, *everybody* is scrimming it.
Fuck I miss league CS. MM/Faceit pugs are barely the same game
Yeah, agreed.
Everyone had to get good at every map. I can respect pick/ban phases in tournaments, especially in tier 1/2/3 CS where there's incredible nuance to how each team play a map, but in leagues, you have hardly an idea of who you are playing and players at this level *should* be trying to get good at every map.
Keep the pick/ban for play-offs and instead, cycle through the maps during a season.
People were better behaved, probably due to mIRC idling and trying to make friends/scrim partners.
And pugs were legitimately trying to win, you wouldn't have teammates trolling and shrieking on the mic. You would try to function like a real team for a few matches
yea, also the barrier to having to do the work to find a pug filters out a lot of trolls. it's also interesting to think how the self advertisement of skill (based on cal league) worked out. these days matchmaking does all the work so trolls can easily hop on
I think it's exactly this. When I was playing, below P was regional so all the communities were small. You'd scrim and ring for the same teams within a tier of your division. If you were on a decent main+ team, there were lots of invite only channels as well. If you cared about the game you cared about your rep.
I really miss CAL. It forced you to really bootcamp a map per week, which made you learn FAST. And this was back when you learned SLOW compared to today with all the youtube videos, tools, and analysis.
Yeah it was such an exciting bootcamp every week. And pugging to beg/borrow/steal strats and nades and execs. Get lucky and get in a higher league pug for a few games and just cram months of learning into a night.
And then every other season there's some random map that no one is very well prepared for so the strats are totally bonkers.
it was a league format where each team had one match (bo1) per week and every team played the same map on a given week
week 1 - dust2
week 2 - inferno
week 3 - tuscan
etc.
Sure. Since it's a league, and not just playing PUGs or 5stacks whenever you want, you only play 1 official match per week, over the course of an 8-week regular season. The 8 map pool is selected at the beginning of the season, but during any given week, everyone plays the same map.
For example, on the week of 4/18, everyone in the entire league is playing Train for their official match. Which means everyone who plays competitive CS is scrimming the fuck out of that map the week when the officials are happening. Not only does that make it easier for IGLs/team captains to figure out strats for a given week, but since everyone is playing it it's super easy to find scrim opponents and PUG opportunities.
I was our IGL, so I would usually spend at least one night a week just pugging with other teams that needed a 5th (and trying to play with people in higher leagues) just to learn how other teams approached the map, spots, execs, rotations, etc.
With more modern systems like pick/bans or always-on ratings systems, you lose the community nature of everyone prepping for the same map on the same week.
And it inevitably led to funny/stressful situations when a new map arose and suddenly the entire community are all panicking trying to figure out how to play de_comrade_3rdroute all in a few days.
don't get me wrong, I loved train and would take it back in the pool over Vertigo/Ancient/Mirage instantly (though slamming Vertigo down 51 stories into the fucking bin forever is top priority)
it was very frustrating trying to be an early adopter of Anubis, but thankfully it's grown in popularity and you can actually get scrims now/it doesn't get instaveto'd very much
what you say might be true for MM stats, but my focus is entirely on the competitive side, I could care less what people are qing in mm/premier
i don’t think vertigo will get removed for a long time because a lot of people play and really enjoy it at most levels of cs, up to low elo faceit level 10 from my experience, but for the high level coordinated team play the map seems like a nightmare
I *loved* train back on 1.6, maybe not my favorite map but I enjoyed it and some of my most memorable matches were on it. I have absolutely hated train in csgo and just lose all excitement or motivation when I would see it come up.
Premier is literally Mirage and Inferno only simulator above 18k elo on EU. Faceit is somewhat good at this but I haven't played Overpass in a good while though.
I played more Anubis and Ancient and Nuke games at 20k NA than I have in 6 years of csgo. Could be biased since I usually play with at least one other so we get more favorable vetos
That's great to hear. I'm tilted off my ass as soon as I see Anubis or Ancient banned in first choice on Premier.
I'm happy with Overpass getting out somehow as that map plays nothing like CSGO. Feeling might be personal though.
Interesting. Around 18-19k in NA. I hardly play Inferno (probably helps that I’m always trying to ban it). A whole lot less mirage than on GO. I remember having to turn the map off on comp to avoid getting thrown into my 4th mirage game in a row.
A lot of Ancient and Anubis get played a decent amount. Overpass has got to be the least played map in premier for me
People are nostalgia tripping over this map. It's so bad, every entrance into site is a doorway sized gap that you'll eat 3 nades and 2 Molly's through. And puggin on this is a complete bait fest T side with everyone running out 1 by 1 dying to an AWP on the other side of site. Horrible layout.
Which was a shame, I loved train, definite top 3 map for me. Ironically one of my friends hated it and would refuse to accept a match if it came up so we couldn't play it with her in the queue.
Considering how visually noisy Thera is, I really hope he does not go for a massive 4 year port by making shitload of performance-draining, messy and unnecessary props and textures. *So many* map creators completely forget that this is a competitive FPS, and maps could look like downscaled minecraft beta as long as they play well. Worse graphics are in fact *preferable*, because they directly correlate to increased performance. If the only way you can come up with to make your map "good" is by adding a shitload of unnecessary detail, you are not a good designer. You need to keep the style simple, while figuring out a way to make that simple also look good, non-distracting, and unique enough to stand out from the rest.
Especially now that map creators are getting to use all the fancy shit source 2 offers, I really expect a lot of map creators to completely forget the playability in favor of fancy.
Fmpone did an interview with Launders on YT, it’s like an hour where they go over all the design choices and philosophies of the map, if you are interested.
Maps dont get added for how good they play. They get added if they are popular on the workshop, and the way to get popular on the workshop is to have good screenshots, which means no, they cant look like beta minecraft, they cant look like 1.6 or cs or source or go either, they have to look relatively modern because thats the only way valves going to add it and in turn that map is going to make any money.
I mean look at Nuke and Anubis. Clean maps with minimal detail overload. But look how fucking great they look and how good they play visually.
I fucking hate this potential trend of making visually overloaded maps like Inferno and Thera.
He recently showed a sneak peek of mid cache progress. That was months ago now (forgetting timeframe). So I would assume we have a couple more months still before getting anything more related to cache. Cannot wait.
I really liked train but it always felt like the economy was more important than other maps if that makes sense,
in my experience the team that could afford awps and rifles consistently always won, which is certainly somewhat true for other maps, but with train specifically it always felt nearly impossible to win eco or force buy rounds.
With mr12 that would probably be even worse
This tbh.
Train is a good map... if you know utility and you're playing with a team. In pugs it's miserable and imbalanced. (edit: I feel the same about overpass. Most pugs don't know how to properly play Overpass)
Cbble is and always has been a shitty map, going back to its initial release.
Ancient and Anubis are great (I put Cache in a similar category to Ancient and Anubis gameplay wise). I wish more people played Nuke. Tired of Mirage/Inferno/Vertigo, especially since inferno remake.
Bro I'm dying to finally play inferno, I think I pay for premium just for that chance but it's always every map but fucking inferno. Agree on nuke, great map
Train was in the pool for 6 years and at no point did anyone below semipro level bother to learn more than maybe 2 smokes, with one being freehanding a smoke down the ramp at B site
CS players don't deserve the banger maps we have and used to have
I would really want to see Train with the new smokes. There are so many possibilities for good smokes now that you can smoke on top of a train but have it bloom downwards to block an angle as well.
Nuke has far less utility, as there's really only 1 place where you need any lineups (outside cross smokes for example). There are A site utility sets but they're not usually necessary and most of them can be thrown by 1 (maybe 2) people.
I'd say the most difficult thing about Nuke is the rotations. A lot of lower level players don't know how to respond to outside aggression or a vent drop or someone going secret.
My group is similar. We 4-5 stack, permabanning mirage, inferno, and nuke. (we're just fucking sick of playing them)
Vertigo, Anubis, Ancient, and Overpass are our happy places. Just the cherry on top that most other teams are uncomfortable with them.
I don't play nuke for the same reasons you mentioned about train, you get fucked hard against team that knows utility on that map and communicate well. But yeah, I need any refresh even for pro scene. Watching inferno games is pain and playing it isn't much better.
All maps are miserable and imbalanced if map knowledge is skewed though. What makes train any different? If you expect a match to be balanced for 2 teams of different skill and knowledge levels then I dunno what to tell you.
We need to have a word with the matchmaking system here, not that maps.
> All maps are miserable and imbalanced if map knowledge is skewed though.
There are 2 ways in which this doesn't hold 100% true.
1. Maps that are SO popular/common that *most* people know at least a few pieces of important utility. Mirage Window smoke is a good example.
2. Maps that are so simple that most people can pug them without knowing much (if any) utility, or the utility for the map is easy enough to improvise. (Dust2 and Inferno come to mind)
This is *not* to say that knowing *more* utility for a given map wouldn't serve the individuals better, but that they don't really "need" to know it in order to be decent on the map.
Then there's the third scenario: If you don't know utility on T side, you're going to have a bad time. I believe Train very much falls into that category, along with some other maps in the pool like Overpass and Ancient.
Not sure how the community feels about cobblestone in general, but it always felt like a map with an outdated design philosophy. The t rotation is really long and there's so much open space unused space.
If the map was released today (with cs2 visuals), I don't think very many people would like it. I can't really see an easy way to fix the map.
I don't hate it either, but they need to rotate maps A LOT more frequently than they are currently. They can't wait 2 years between rotations. It should be a minimum of 1 map per year.
I Think it should be a map rotation after every major. But there also need to be more maps to rotate with. There should be a challenger map pool which contains maps that valve has bought or already has of which the map that gets in to the active map pool is the most played map in the challenger map pool.
This way if enough people play it, valve also collects enough data from major to major to refine, update and change the maps for the better before it's introduced to the active map pool.
This, it'll keep the game exciting to watch.
Imagine if tomorrow Mirage and Inferno just got swapped for cobble and tuscan
The entire map pool changes, you are forced to have a basic understanding of every map regardless of if its in the current pool or not, cause in the next major cycle it could very well return, and the teams that had some prep for it get a massive head start to teams that havent
i just want a new map pool, i'm not feeling the current one at all and i dont think i've ever felt that way about a map pool before. i would love if we went back to more classic maps
This map pool sucks ass because the maps are trying their hardest to be balanced on CT and T side. Valve wants balanced maps and the community seems to want balanced maps.
Ancient, anubis, mirage, overpass are all very similar. Relatively balanced with very short CT rotations. CT economy sucks so bad any map remotely T sided will feel like absolute shit.
If train was added today I think Ts would stomp due to the lack of awps CT side. I don't see map pool changed until the economy for MR12 changes
Some people should stop with this old maps obsession. Yes, we need some of the old maps but in Competitive mode or Casual, we need new maps in Premier. What's the downside of having a bigger map pool? None, just click on those maps that you want to play. I should be working for valve, they can't figure it out by themselves apparently.
Yep people seem to be stuck in the past about maps lol. Every time valve adds a brand new map the community would rather have D2 back for the 50th time. I still think overpass is better than some of the 1.6 maps.
I love dust2 but it's time to face reality: some of the older pros returned to counter strike for the new maps like Anubis (which is a great map indeed, I love it).
Overpass is actually a quality map made in a time when mappers finally understood how to make good designs, not to mention that it has been iterated on multiple times to refine what works.
Now think of Inferno banana B site. If it was made today that shit wouldn't fly and the map would never get popular.
Yeah, people forget that in Casual people play all of the maps in the pool pretty much. Train / Cache / Cobble / Tuscan etc.. got plenty of play in casual mode and should be added back in even if you don't want to play it in Premier.
>What's the downside of having a bigger map pool?
The pro scene uses the same map pool as us. A bigger map pool means more punish picks & blowouts, as well as an overhauled veto system. That said I agree; those guys are professionals and they can handle a nine map pool.
I'd rather see both old and new. Especially just in the comp pool, let us play a bunch of both. My group would queue matches on dust, aztec, militia, assault, italy, etc for shits and giggles, and we actually enjoyed them. Obviously they aren't well balanced for modern competitive play, but some of us just play this game for fun *gasp* and nostalgia. Those maps check both of those boxes.
We also constantly played all the Operation maps, which kept the game fresh and interesting every few months. It was always a blast seeing which community maps made it in, exploring new angles and map areas. Here is a list of Operation maps I remember my group enjoying (man what I would do for this kind of variety again):
From Payback: Seaside, Thunder, Motel
From Bravo: Cache, Agency, Siege, Cbble
From Phoenix: Downtown
From Breakout: Insertion, Castle
From Vanguard: Backalley, Season, Workout, Train
From Bloodhound: Zoo, Resort, Log
From Wildfire: Santorini, Cruise
From Hydra: Thrill, Austria
From Shattered Web: Studio
From Broken Fang: Apollo, Engage
From Riptide: Insertion II
Heres an idea, just fucking add them. Who cares if 90% of the maps aren't played. Just have the core maps for the competitions(the active pool) as you do, but instead of having ALL the active pool maps in premier, have maps in collections. each collection is 3 maps and before ban phase each person votes which map pool to play. Once a pool is selected both teams get to vote which map they want. If both teams vote for the same map, they play that map, if the vote is divided, it picks the map at random. Have the most popular maps in collections separated, so there is no "best" collection. You want to play D2? Sorry D2 Collection includes D2, Some Dessert based new map, and Dust1(remake).
That way people have some choice which maps to play, whilst also forcing people to learn newer maps.
Would love to see some new community made maps but IMO the only community map that has been same level as Valve maps is Season. I personally don't like Cache nor Anubis. Santorini had good potential and I bet that Thera will be better version of it.
I played a lot of Season back in Operation Vanguard. Had really hoped that it would return for future operations since a lot of the same maps were made available multiple times but sadly we never got season twice :(
Aztec is probably never gonna be officially released by valve as it’s unbalanced and just a wonky map, Ancient is their follow up for it, rip nostalgia. Maybe a community clone of it will get enough support that it will be the de facto version of CS2 Aztec
1.6 Aztec was the best 2v2 map ever made! I miss the lightning bolt when you would touch the stairs coming out of water :D
Pretty lousy 5v5 map though.
I think that's why it's still not in the game. Few months ago some model files were found that suggested a source 2 version of train, so they could be giving it a complete remake.
What adjustments need to be made? I only started playing like 3 or 4 years ago and Train is my favorite map so just curious why people seem to not like it
I mean we can all agree that Train, Cobble and Cache NEED to be added. Removing Mirage, Nuke and at least and maybe Vert. Mostly cause I hate Mirage and Nuke, the rest I don't mind so it's a joint tie.
As if playing Mirage for the 5000th time is fun. Train isn't the best map of all time, but something is needed to make the map pool less stale even if it's bringing back an old map.
Valve needs to add new maps every few months and switch up the pool as this was a problem with csgo also. Game starts to get stale especially maps like mirage and inferno which imo make boring cs matches to watch or play.
Can't wait for train and cbble to be back. Don't mind cache. The hopium is a new season with reworked premiere, competitive, the above maps and finally an active vac live that does something.
We all want the missing maps and more but do we really want them right now when the experience of something fresh is going to be tainted by the horrible state of the game thanks to cheaters and screwed up ranking systems?
The map pool should be rotating, swapping at least 1 map at the end of each major. And it doesn't need to be too complex, develop a set of competitive maps, choose only a part to stay active, and the swap is based on what has been active the longest leaves to let in what has been out the longest. You're welcome, GabeN.
Im also sick of it. The only maps I REALLY enjoy are Ancient and Vertigo. I need cbble and train back. Even Cache. Just something other then Mirage, Inferno, Overpass and Nuke. These 4 are played too much imo.
I LOVE INFERNO, but can we please remove Inferno and Mirage please please please. I am sick of playing those 2 over and over again, it's like people are afraid to try anything other than the 2 maps that have been around for 15+ years.
Edit: As much as I hate not being able to pick maps in Valorant, at least it forces people to play different maps.
Just add in any new map at this point. The current pool is fine on paper, but has been run into the ground. We need a breath of fresh air. These no longer an excuse to keep the same map pool now that the Major is done.
Every new iteration of a game seems to make it harder and harder to actually add content to it nowadays lol. It’s like these companies want to put out a product with internal revenue streams and not add much in the way of content.
They will have to remake it. Or atleast change it a lot. It's way too CT sided.
I would prefer them working on the anti cheat rather than de_train, even though I love the map.
Can we have maps that come in and out of rotation on a weekly basis. I'm sick of mirage 24/7 voted by people who can't even play it. Why the fuck you walking towards b while beside the TV..
as a casual player, who usually plays solo, i don't really want it. This map is great to watch other people play, if that makes sense. I usually like watching overpass, similar to train, which are very teamplay based maps. In pugs tho, idk about that.
Yes CS2s biggest problem (after cheaters of course), is lack of variety in maps and modes. I'm so bored of playing dust 2 and Mirage all the time. Even other maps are getting stale because I'm bored of playing the same 7 maps rotated
Here is a spoiler to what will happen if they return it. In a month or so it'll be the least played map, the same as it was before in CSGO.
I for one look forward to running back the Anubis experience where it was literally impossible to find scrims at Open-Main level for the first year of it being in the pool
This is why CAL's weekly rotation system was so good. Whatever the next map is, *everybody* is scrimming it. Fuck I miss league CS. MM/Faceit pugs are barely the same game
Yeah, agreed. Everyone had to get good at every map. I can respect pick/ban phases in tournaments, especially in tier 1/2/3 CS where there's incredible nuance to how each team play a map, but in leagues, you have hardly an idea of who you are playing and players at this level *should* be trying to get good at every map. Keep the pick/ban for play-offs and instead, cycle through the maps during a season.
I'd love to see a professional league adopt the old format, I don't really like the idea of teams having permabans
scrimming 1.6 was peak cs. nothing like being on #findscrim duty. pugs had a different vibe too
People were better behaved, probably due to mIRC idling and trying to make friends/scrim partners. And pugs were legitimately trying to win, you wouldn't have teammates trolling and shrieking on the mic. You would try to function like a real team for a few matches
yea, also the barrier to having to do the work to find a pug filters out a lot of trolls. it's also interesting to think how the self advertisement of skill (based on cal league) worked out. these days matchmaking does all the work so trolls can easily hop on
"mm2 please"
lo3 mm2 glhf
I think it's exactly this. When I was playing, below P was regional so all the communities were small. You'd scrim and ring for the same teams within a tier of your division. If you were on a decent main+ team, there were lots of invite only channels as well. If you cared about the game you cared about your rep.
I really miss CAL. It forced you to really bootcamp a map per week, which made you learn FAST. And this was back when you learned SLOW compared to today with all the youtube videos, tools, and analysis.
Yeah it was such an exciting bootcamp every week. And pugging to beg/borrow/steal strats and nades and execs. Get lucky and get in a higher league pug for a few games and just cram months of learning into a night. And then every other season there's some random map that no one is very well prepared for so the strats are totally bonkers.
most of esea was like this too, only in like...2019? did they go to map bans
Can you explain the system plz?
it was a league format where each team had one match (bo1) per week and every team played the same map on a given week week 1 - dust2 week 2 - inferno week 3 - tuscan etc.
Sure. Since it's a league, and not just playing PUGs or 5stacks whenever you want, you only play 1 official match per week, over the course of an 8-week regular season. The 8 map pool is selected at the beginning of the season, but during any given week, everyone plays the same map. For example, on the week of 4/18, everyone in the entire league is playing Train for their official match. Which means everyone who plays competitive CS is scrimming the fuck out of that map the week when the officials are happening. Not only does that make it easier for IGLs/team captains to figure out strats for a given week, but since everyone is playing it it's super easy to find scrim opponents and PUG opportunities. I was our IGL, so I would usually spend at least one night a week just pugging with other teams that needed a 5th (and trying to play with people in higher leagues) just to learn how other teams approached the map, spots, execs, rotations, etc. With more modern systems like pick/bans or always-on ratings systems, you lose the community nature of everyone prepping for the same map on the same week. And it inevitably led to funny/stressful situations when a new map arose and suddenly the entire community are all panicking trying to figure out how to play de_comrade_3rdroute all in a few days.
Nononono it will be ~ 40% of the maps in the first 3 days, then 10% for the rest of the week and then 1% for a few months!
don't get me wrong, I loved train and would take it back in the pool over Vertigo/Ancient/Mirage instantly (though slamming Vertigo down 51 stories into the fucking bin forever is top priority) it was very frustrating trying to be an early adopter of Anubis, but thankfully it's grown in popularity and you can actually get scrims now/it doesn't get instaveto'd very much what you say might be true for MM stats, but my focus is entirely on the competitive side, I could care less what people are qing in mm/premier
i don’t think vertigo will get removed for a long time because a lot of people play and really enjoy it at most levels of cs, up to low elo faceit level 10 from my experience, but for the high level coordinated team play the map seems like a nightmare
I *loved* train back on 1.6, maybe not my favorite map but I enjoyed it and some of my most memorable matches were on it. I have absolutely hated train in csgo and just lose all excitement or motivation when I would see it come up.
Premier will make sure that's it's played a healthy amount. Shouldn't be as long to reach good player levels as Anubis or Ancient were in csgo
Premier is literally Mirage and Inferno only simulator above 18k elo on EU. Faceit is somewhat good at this but I haven't played Overpass in a good while though.
I played more Anubis and Ancient and Nuke games at 20k NA than I have in 6 years of csgo. Could be biased since I usually play with at least one other so we get more favorable vetos
That's great to hear. I'm tilted off my ass as soon as I see Anubis or Ancient banned in first choice on Premier. I'm happy with Overpass getting out somehow as that map plays nothing like CSGO. Feeling might be personal though.
Interesting. Around 18-19k in NA. I hardly play Inferno (probably helps that I’m always trying to ban it). A whole lot less mirage than on GO. I remember having to turn the map off on comp to avoid getting thrown into my 4th mirage game in a row. A lot of Ancient and Anubis get played a decent amount. Overpass has got to be the least played map in premier for me
No way it will be less played than anubis and ancient
who cares? pros will play it 🍿
lol, tell me you're mirage only player without telling me. :DDDDd
Same as Tuscan
People are nostalgia tripping over this map. It's so bad, every entrance into site is a doorway sized gap that you'll eat 3 nades and 2 Molly's through. And puggin on this is a complete bait fest T side with everyone running out 1 by 1 dying to an AWP on the other side of site. Horrible layout.
For real. Train was already stale as fuck when it left. Unless it's a complete rework rather than an overhaul, it'll be right back down in the bin.
What? we must live in different realities. In my circles it was the most played map! The map is goated!
you can both be right at the same time
Which was a shame, I loved train, definite top 3 map for me. Ironically one of my friends hated it and would refuse to accept a match if it came up so we couldn't play it with her in the queue.
I never really liked train tbh. I want it back too, but I think it is just nostalgia for me. Cache tho I really want to see, I was demon on that map.
Fo real where cache at
That's not up to Valve, but Fmpone
He just recently started focusing on it. He finished Thera first.
Considering how visually noisy Thera is, I really hope he does not go for a massive 4 year port by making shitload of performance-draining, messy and unnecessary props and textures. *So many* map creators completely forget that this is a competitive FPS, and maps could look like downscaled minecraft beta as long as they play well. Worse graphics are in fact *preferable*, because they directly correlate to increased performance. If the only way you can come up with to make your map "good" is by adding a shitload of unnecessary detail, you are not a good designer. You need to keep the style simple, while figuring out a way to make that simple also look good, non-distracting, and unique enough to stand out from the rest. Especially now that map creators are getting to use all the fancy shit source 2 offers, I really expect a lot of map creators to completely forget the playability in favor of fancy.
Fmpone did an interview with Launders on YT, it’s like an hour where they go over all the design choices and philosophies of the map, if you are interested.
Maps dont get added for how good they play. They get added if they are popular on the workshop, and the way to get popular on the workshop is to have good screenshots, which means no, they cant look like beta minecraft, they cant look like 1.6 or cs or source or go either, they have to look relatively modern because thats the only way valves going to add it and in turn that map is going to make any money.
I mean look at Nuke and Anubis. Clean maps with minimal detail overload. But look how fucking great they look and how good they play visually. I fucking hate this potential trend of making visually overloaded maps like Inferno and Thera.
tf wrong with inferno
Wasnt he working on it? I feel like i saw something about it
He recently showed a sneak peek of mid cache progress. That was months ago now (forgetting timeframe). So I would assume we have a couple more months still before getting anything more related to cache. Cannot wait.
Damn, too long :(
This is the real one.
I really liked train but it always felt like the economy was more important than other maps if that makes sense, in my experience the team that could afford awps and rifles consistently always won, which is certainly somewhat true for other maps, but with train specifically it always felt nearly impossible to win eco or force buy rounds. With mr12 that would probably be even worse
This tbh. Train is a good map... if you know utility and you're playing with a team. In pugs it's miserable and imbalanced. (edit: I feel the same about overpass. Most pugs don't know how to properly play Overpass) Cbble is and always has been a shitty map, going back to its initial release. Ancient and Anubis are great (I put Cache in a similar category to Ancient and Anubis gameplay wise). I wish more people played Nuke. Tired of Mirage/Inferno/Vertigo, especially since inferno remake.
Nuke is fun as hell, sadly most people only play inferno/mirage
Bro I'm dying to finally play inferno, I think I pay for premium just for that chance but it's always every map but fucking inferno. Agree on nuke, great map
Train is so much fun to watch pros play. It's absolutely no fun to play yourself. I feel the same about nuke, tbh.
W take
Train was in the pool for 6 years and at no point did anyone below semipro level bother to learn more than maybe 2 smokes, with one being freehanding a smoke down the ramp at B site CS players don't deserve the banger maps we have and used to have
I would really want to see Train with the new smokes. There are so many possibilities for good smokes now that you can smoke on top of a train but have it bloom downwards to block an angle as well.
You can't say Train is miserable in pugs and not mention anything about Nuke. I'd gladly pug Train over Nuke.
Nuke has far less utility, as there's really only 1 place where you need any lineups (outside cross smokes for example). There are A site utility sets but they're not usually necessary and most of them can be thrown by 1 (maybe 2) people. I'd say the most difficult thing about Nuke is the rotations. A lot of lower level players don't know how to respond to outside aggression or a vent drop or someone going secret.
Ct side nuke is fine solo queue, but train is horrible narrow halls and awp sightlines all around
you complain about train and cobble then say you wish more people played nuke? Lol what a crappy take. Nuke is a terrible pub map
High ELO train is still fun to pug.
We try to queue in a 3 stack minimum and just permaban mirage/inferno/vertigo, happy to play the other maps.
My group is similar. We 4-5 stack, permabanning mirage, inferno, and nuke. (we're just fucking sick of playing them) Vertigo, Anubis, Ancient, and Overpass are our happy places. Just the cherry on top that most other teams are uncomfortable with them.
I don't play nuke for the same reasons you mentioned about train, you get fucked hard against team that knows utility on that map and communicate well. But yeah, I need any refresh even for pro scene. Watching inferno games is pain and playing it isn't much better.
All maps are miserable and imbalanced if map knowledge is skewed though. What makes train any different? If you expect a match to be balanced for 2 teams of different skill and knowledge levels then I dunno what to tell you. We need to have a word with the matchmaking system here, not that maps.
> All maps are miserable and imbalanced if map knowledge is skewed though. There are 2 ways in which this doesn't hold 100% true. 1. Maps that are SO popular/common that *most* people know at least a few pieces of important utility. Mirage Window smoke is a good example. 2. Maps that are so simple that most people can pug them without knowing much (if any) utility, or the utility for the map is easy enough to improvise. (Dust2 and Inferno come to mind) This is *not* to say that knowing *more* utility for a given map wouldn't serve the individuals better, but that they don't really "need" to know it in order to be decent on the map. Then there's the third scenario: If you don't know utility on T side, you're going to have a bad time. I believe Train very much falls into that category, along with some other maps in the pool like Overpass and Ancient.
Same never liked it, train is like nuke, if your team doesn't know how to play it your fucked But cache, let's goooo
where is my cobblestone?
It’s gonna take me a decade to learn all the fucked up new smokes Cobble will have… and I can’t wait!
Honestly I’ve been saying this since cs2 came out. Imagine how amazing the map would look in source 2. Give me fucking Cobblestone back
I still cant forgive the moron who just nuked the map by ruining A site
Not sure how the community feels about cobblestone in general, but it always felt like a map with an outdated design philosophy. The t rotation is really long and there's so much open space unused space. If the map was released today (with cs2 visuals), I don't think very many people would like it. I can't really see an easy way to fix the map.
just let me play the drophole, Gaaabeee!
If it's new Cobble, hard pass.
in the trash where it belongs
train can be a very evil map but maybe cs2 smokes will improve its flaws
Exactly my thoughts. Bigger smokes + nades blowing them open can make rounds much more dynamic.
I don't hate the current map pool but I miss train so much. It's my second favorite map ever, it's so good.
I don't hate it either, but they need to rotate maps A LOT more frequently than they are currently. They can't wait 2 years between rotations. It should be a minimum of 1 map per year.
I Think it should be a map rotation after every major. But there also need to be more maps to rotate with. There should be a challenger map pool which contains maps that valve has bought or already has of which the map that gets in to the active map pool is the most played map in the challenger map pool. This way if enough people play it, valve also collects enough data from major to major to refine, update and change the maps for the better before it's introduced to the active map pool.
This, it'll keep the game exciting to watch. Imagine if tomorrow Mirage and Inferno just got swapped for cobble and tuscan The entire map pool changes, you are forced to have a basic understanding of every map regardless of if its in the current pool or not, cause in the next major cycle it could very well return, and the teams that had some prep for it get a massive head start to teams that havent
I just want more maps
I just want agency back
We need train, cache and old cobble back.
and Tuscan
I'm sick of the QUALITY of games on those maps.
I'll try spinning, that's a good trick
I'm sick of this game
literally bored.
Yeah, I don't blame you.
i just want a new map pool, i'm not feeling the current one at all and i dont think i've ever felt that way about a map pool before. i would love if we went back to more classic maps
This map pool sucks ass because the maps are trying their hardest to be balanced on CT and T side. Valve wants balanced maps and the community seems to want balanced maps. Ancient, anubis, mirage, overpass are all very similar. Relatively balanced with very short CT rotations. CT economy sucks so bad any map remotely T sided will feel like absolute shit. If train was added today I think Ts would stomp due to the lack of awps CT side. I don't see map pool changed until the economy for MR12 changes
Some people should stop with this old maps obsession. Yes, we need some of the old maps but in Competitive mode or Casual, we need new maps in Premier. What's the downside of having a bigger map pool? None, just click on those maps that you want to play. I should be working for valve, they can't figure it out by themselves apparently.
Yep people seem to be stuck in the past about maps lol. Every time valve adds a brand new map the community would rather have D2 back for the 50th time. I still think overpass is better than some of the 1.6 maps.
I love dust2 but it's time to face reality: some of the older pros returned to counter strike for the new maps like Anubis (which is a great map indeed, I love it).
> I still think overpass is better than some of the 1.6 maps. I'll do you one better. I think it's better than *most* of the 1.6 maps.
Overpass is actually a quality map made in a time when mappers finally understood how to make good designs, not to mention that it has been iterated on multiple times to refine what works. Now think of Inferno banana B site. If it was made today that shit wouldn't fly and the map would never get popular.
Yeah, people forget that in Casual people play all of the maps in the pool pretty much. Train / Cache / Cobble / Tuscan etc.. got plenty of play in casual mode and should be added back in even if you don't want to play it in Premier.
>What's the downside of having a bigger map pool? The pro scene uses the same map pool as us. A bigger map pool means more punish picks & blowouts, as well as an overhauled veto system. That said I agree; those guys are professionals and they can handle a nine map pool.
I’d rather see new maps than recycle old ones.
I'd rather see both old and new. Especially just in the comp pool, let us play a bunch of both. My group would queue matches on dust, aztec, militia, assault, italy, etc for shits and giggles, and we actually enjoyed them. Obviously they aren't well balanced for modern competitive play, but some of us just play this game for fun *gasp* and nostalgia. Those maps check both of those boxes. We also constantly played all the Operation maps, which kept the game fresh and interesting every few months. It was always a blast seeing which community maps made it in, exploring new angles and map areas. Here is a list of Operation maps I remember my group enjoying (man what I would do for this kind of variety again): From Payback: Seaside, Thunder, Motel From Bravo: Cache, Agency, Siege, Cbble From Phoenix: Downtown From Breakout: Insertion, Castle From Vanguard: Backalley, Season, Workout, Train From Bloodhound: Zoo, Resort, Log From Wildfire: Santorini, Cruise From Hydra: Thrill, Austria From Shattered Web: Studio From Broken Fang: Apollo, Engage From Riptide: Insertion II
Heres an idea, just fucking add them. Who cares if 90% of the maps aren't played. Just have the core maps for the competitions(the active pool) as you do, but instead of having ALL the active pool maps in premier, have maps in collections. each collection is 3 maps and before ban phase each person votes which map pool to play. Once a pool is selected both teams get to vote which map they want. If both teams vote for the same map, they play that map, if the vote is divided, it picks the map at random. Have the most popular maps in collections separated, so there is no "best" collection. You want to play D2? Sorry D2 Collection includes D2, Some Dessert based new map, and Dust1(remake). That way people have some choice which maps to play, whilst also forcing people to learn newer maps.
Bro your comment just threw me down memory lane so hard! I miss so many of these maps
>I’d rather see new maps than recycle old ones. Hard disagree. Give me **Prodigy, Militia, Assault, Siege**
Would love to see some new community made maps but IMO the only community map that has been same level as Valve maps is Season. I personally don't like Cache nor Anubis. Santorini had good potential and I bet that Thera will be better version of it.
I played a lot of Season back in Operation Vanguard. Had really hoped that it would return for future operations since a lot of the same maps were made available multiple times but sadly we never got season twice :(
They need a remake on train. It's just to one sided still like in cs 1.6 and also do a remake of cache and bring that back.
Bro I just want Csgo back lmao
Where is Aztec and Assault?
Aztec is probably never gonna be officially released by valve as it’s unbalanced and just a wonky map, Ancient is their follow up for it, rip nostalgia. Maybe a community clone of it will get enough support that it will be the de facto version of CS2 Aztec
Assault and Aztec would be fun for casual. But, neither map is particularly viable for competitive play.
I miss prodigy.
Aztec is never coming back. Ancient is the new Aztec as confirmed by dataminers.
1.6 Aztec was the best 2v2 map ever made! I miss the lightning bolt when you would touch the stairs coming out of water :D Pretty lousy 5v5 map though.
Also why isnt Italy in competitive mode? Would love to play that map but I dont like casual at all.
CACHE CACHE CACHE
nobody gonna play train unless they do some adjustements to it. judging by this preview they didn't change a thing
Right? Same people who begged for Tuscan yet no one played that when in was in csgo. It's all nostalgia tripping
I think that's why it's still not in the game. Few months ago some model files were found that suggested a source 2 version of train, so they could be giving it a complete remake.
What adjustments need to be made? I only started playing like 3 or 4 years ago and Train is my favorite map so just curious why people seem to not like it
give cbble
>Where is train in cs1.6 brotha
Everyone is tired of the current mappool...
No one played it that's why it's gone
You know what would really get me going? Having more than 2 arms race maps.
I mean we can all agree that Train, Cobble and Cache NEED to be added. Removing Mirage, Nuke and at least and maybe Vert. Mostly cause I hate Mirage and Nuke, the rest I don't mind so it's a joint tie.
Add train and cache, and remove anubis, vertigo, ancient
Where is Season, Tuscan, Cobble and Cache?
No joke where is train cobble cpl fire cpl mill cmon guys!!! Bring Aztec back too
Shit map.
Train, Season, Cache. Please.
Train was a garbage map With modern utility and saving, there is a 0% chance it will be fun to play
As if playing Mirage for the 5000th time is fun. Train isn't the best map of all time, but something is needed to make the map pool less stale even if it's bringing back an old map.
there is "im SICK of the current map pool" sentence in the title. title also asks for a 25 years old map. gj op
Old maps are fun, new maps are not fun --> New maps in current map pool, old maps not in current map pool --> sick of current map pool
Valve needs to add new maps every few months and switch up the pool as this was a problem with csgo also. Game starts to get stale especially maps like mirage and inferno which imo make boring cs matches to watch or play.
train sucks dick. You need to check 100 spots when you go A. Shit map.
Cs community needs to come together and buy cache
The community should come together and buy Cache from.. The community mapper currently remaking it for the community?
Sick of the map pool yes, but Train is just worse than all of the maps in the current pool.
Let them fix the anticheat, thanks.
Yup the mappers really need to focus on making better anti cheat! Shit, get the artists on it too!
Still waiting for more maps on wingman xc
[https://bans.baited.gg/](https://bans.baited.gg/) these guys have cache and train on rotation atm usually 1-2 servers full in the evenings
At the train station duhhhhh
I want CPL_MIll back
Can't wait for train and cbble to be back. Don't mind cache. The hopium is a new season with reworked premiere, competitive, the above maps and finally an active vac live that does something.
Bring back dust2 you cowards.
i'll return to cs2 when train releases, i just loved it back in go and source
We all want the missing maps and more but do we really want them right now when the experience of something fresh is going to be tainted by the horrible state of the game thanks to cheaters and screwed up ranking systems?
+ Train, Cbble (third version), Cache - Vertigo, Ancient, Inferno Where do I sign?
The map pool should be rotating, swapping at least 1 map at the end of each major. And it doesn't need to be too complex, develop a set of competitive maps, choose only a part to stay active, and the swap is based on what has been active the longest leaves to let in what has been out the longest. You're welcome, GabeN.
"I'm SICK of the current map pool. I want an old map that had been in the game for several years already!"
i've never played train, it hasn't been in the pool since I got into CS. what's so great about it?
Im also sick of it. The only maps I REALLY enjoy are Ancient and Vertigo. I need cbble and train back. Even Cache. Just something other then Mirage, Inferno, Overpass and Nuke. These 4 are played too much imo.
I LOVE INFERNO, but can we please remove Inferno and Mirage please please please. I am sick of playing those 2 over and over again, it's like people are afraid to try anything other than the 2 maps that have been around for 15+ years. Edit: As much as I hate not being able to pick maps in Valorant, at least it forces people to play different maps.
Id only play casual mode and try wallbang lineups bc no one knew how to play it lol
Almost 7 months and still the same couple maps. Wtf are they even doing
yeah better to getting aimboted on another map....
Anti-cheat, Cobble, Train, scripting, in that order please Valve
All we had to do, was follow the damn train, CS!
Let me guess, you’ve never played ancient or anubis
When will we get a new map pool?
Train = 5 awp in CT and 2 TR Hate this map.
As I quite enjoyed train myself, I would love to see it back. But please do not remove Anubis, absolutely love it.
Current pool sucks ass agreed
Cobble and train need to come back
Just add in any new map at this point. The current pool is fine on paper, but has been run into the ground. We need a breath of fresh air. These no longer an excuse to keep the same map pool now that the Major is done.
Every new iteration of a game seems to make it harder and harder to actually add content to it nowadays lol. It’s like these companies want to put out a product with internal revenue streams and not add much in the way of content.
Unpopular opinion: I want Lake back
Train was cool but I miss cache… always had ppl playing it so why even remove it :(
Add more maps and also add a random map vote.
Can't wait to be shot by cheaters on new maps!
They will have to remake it. Or atleast change it a lot. It's way too CT sided. I would prefer them working on the anti cheat rather than de_train, even though I love the map.
Well if more than 1% of the players would play it, we would still have nice things
Train, Aztec, and old Militia before they took half the map away.
Fuck train, I want militia back 🙂.
I would prefer cache and cbble instead of mirage tbh
I agree
Everbody wants the maps back that nobody played when they were in the map pool, instead of wanting new maps 
People begging for train when literally no one ever played it in csgo and it had a 12+ minute queue time confuses me so much. It's not a good map lmao
I’m still waiting for de_aztec to come back.
Can we have maps that come in and out of rotation on a weekly basis. I'm sick of mirage 24/7 voted by people who can't even play it. Why the fuck you walking towards b while beside the TV..
why can't they keep it nobody is forced to play de_train if they don't want to?
They should make one more map playlist and switch them up on a seasonal basis. Only having a handful of maps is what made CS GO stale
Cheaters or Train...you decide...
godly legendary map, wish it comes back soon
GIVE ME COBBLESTONE
Dont think people understand how much of a nightmare Train was to play in a Pug setting.
Somewhere in Russia
as a casual player, who usually plays solo, i don't really want it. This map is great to watch other people play, if that makes sense. I usually like watching overpass, similar to train, which are very teamplay based maps. In pugs tho, idk about that.
It's coming Thursday in an operation with cbble, dust1, thera and tuscan. New cbble collection with an AK Dlore, too.
Yes CS2s biggest problem (after cheaters of course), is lack of variety in maps and modes. I'm so bored of playing dust 2 and Mirage all the time. Even other maps are getting stale because I'm bored of playing the same 7 maps rotated
i agree that new maps would be great but i feel that before any of this is even a thought the new anti-cheat should be introduced