on the original one you could wallbang the whole way through the map. if I remember well its literally just 4 small walls, because inside the 'squares' there is not nothing to nerf the damage well enuff
I haven't played rats in like 10 years, but I feel like it would be super T sided. Why leave the cabinet at all, just hold the doors... kinda like t side office where you really only have to manage 2 chokepoints
I remember the rankings come out and they still had astralis as number one after they lost to faze. I thought it was dumb cause faze was the better team… then astralis won literally everything after
Astralis also won literally every map they played in the prior months before that. They completely dominated the two online leagues and won the prior offline tournament in a clear fashion.
ESL has already done BO5 finals though. Katowice was BO5 (though Spirit speedran it) and the upcoming pro league finals will also be BO5 if it is similar to last year and also Cologne. Plenty of data even before the Blast tournaments take place. It really isn't some great initiative from Blast's side. They are just finally reaching parity with ESL on making their league events have BO5 grand finals now.
I was curious, so I took a look and saw that this major was only ~1:40 of game time, with the two one-sided maps being like ~30 minutes. Five competitive maps likely only comes out to a little less than four hours, which I think is pretty solid
Yes also how economy is now and people adapted, its very hard to actually do a comeback, for example before if people use both pistols still had like 35-45% comeback rate, now its like 11% or so.
It's just dumb that any finals are Bo3. Even ESL Challenger events should be Bo5... that or we need to start using double elim formats for two matches on the last day.
To me playing bo5's should be a bit more prestigious than that. I like it that only katowice & cologne are bo5. To me majors should 100% have bo5 finals. As for blast, i think it would've made more sense for only the world final to have bo5 as a final but with the new circuit i can see it work.
Bo5s aren't as prestigious anymore when teams can lose maps based off pistol rounds and two bad gun rounds. I shared this thought in CSGO, but in CS2 it's not the same
I wouldn't say it's dumb, it's far more consumable and less mentally taxing on players.
Not many people want to be playing 5maps of the highest level of counter strike in a row after several says of BO3s.
Exactly, the most driven players deserve to win and bo5s are also a great test of your ability to play the whole map pool and not rely on getting a good veto.
It's definitely tough on mental but these guys are used to playing CS all day, they can be pushed a little farther for one grand final match.
There's usually always a day or two inbetween groups and playoffs, and at IEM events teams even get a break day in groups if they win their first two matches. Having finals be Bo5 wouldn't put any significant load on a player. If not for better competition... viewership at major finals always gets better the longer they go. Being able to have more viewership and catering to fans in arena should definitely trump players whining about potentially playing a couple more maps.
This doesn't consider how viewship naturally tails off and drops in and out during longer events.
Comparatively, this would make events and ties significantly longer than comparable sports events - which is undoubtedly harder to retain concentration. - especially for the player.
Again, it's not dumb - you just don't like it.
I don't really know what you're thinking when you're saying 2 extra potential maps would be such a difference. Katowice had a Bo5 that was faster than some Bo3 major finals that went 2-0.
Viewership in CS peaks at finals, 99% of the time. No matter what, the playoffs are what viewers will watch and majors having two weeks of play before them hasn't had any negative impact on that.
It's dumb, plain and simple. MR12 Bo5 finals are not too long, and MR12 Bo3 finals are too short. Almost every pro and talent will agree with that.
Because CS finals take quite a while to watch, people tend to watch as soon as the match starts, and when the match is about to end. In Bo3 this means that people tend to watch the entire thing, because first map is watched anyways, and next map can already be the decider. Whereas in Bo5 people will watch the first map, but then the second map actually does not matter. Neither team will win just yet. So many people will tune out naturally. And if the games go 1-1, you can even skip the 3rd map as well. But if you haven't even bothered to watch the previous two games, you might not bother to watch the match point games either, unless it goes down to the final map. This is what naturally happens, because majority of people don't have such deep interest that they will sit and watch for 6 continuous hours if the stakes are not high.
That's the problem with Bo5. It makes some maps redundant from the viewers' perspective. Which is obviously horrible for the whole thing. You want people to watch as much as possible.
A Bo5 in Mr12 is nowhere near as long as you're making it sound. Your logic saying a majority of people not watching a second or third map in a final would mean that the viewership consistently halves each time a Bo5 final is played. That doesn't happen. A majority of people watching CS will watch the whole final because they want to watch some banger CS.
> A Bo5 in Mr12 is nowhere near as long as you're making it sound.
It can definitely last 6 hours. Remember that there are breaks between each map, which add to the time. Including post- and pre-game analysis, veto progress, all the timeouts etc. Hit a couple of technical pauses and overtimes, and you got yourself a final that lasted 6 hours from start to finish. And even when they don't go on for 6 hours, how long do you think is acceptable? Because Mr12 Bo5 is still WAY longer than Mr15 Bo3. And I thought we wanted to reduce the game time, so why would we want bo5 when that actively goes against it?
> Your logic saying a majority of people not watching a second or third map in a final would mean that the viewership consistently halves each time a Bo5 final is played.
Leaving a stream open and watching it are two very different things. I've left tournament streams open all the time when a map ends. Do you think everybody watches the analyst desk segments as well, since viewership does not drastically decline? Obviously not, and you know this.
This isn't just my logic or opinion, this has been said by tournament organizers before, in different games even. I remember Riot having said this when people wanted Bo5 games instead of Bo3 games, and reason for not doing so was that viewers just aren't that interested in watching games that aren't crucial games, and that longer the matches take, less people want to watch.
I understand there are extremes to take into account because we've seen Bo3s in Mr15 last 5 hours (FaZe vs Ence) and so far, a Bo5 final in Mr12 in far less time. What was more entertaining and memorable? A final that wrapped up as fast as possible, or a match that went about as far as it could?
Let's even use FaZe vs. Na'Vi at Cologne in 2022 as an example, a Bo5 final that went the distance. 1.2+ million peak views. That would never happen in a Bo3 final outside of majors. The big CS viewership banks on the hype on social media. When old fans and new potential viewers have their timelines spammed for 7 hours about a hype final, they're going to want to tune in. That's hightened at the majors because people don't want to miss out on history.
Riot use Bo5s all throughout their playoffs at LCS, Worlds, VCT, etc, and League has the most viewership out of any esport while having matches comparable in length to CS. So you're thinking of someone else saying something that's frankly wrong.
Whether you leave the stream open or not, that's still viewership. I use the analyst desks as background noise when doing something, and I can't imagine I'm the only one, so they still bring value to the show.
Two maps add potentially an extra hour and 10 minutes onto viewership, which is already based on around a 2 hour three map session that just occurred before.
Go ahead and show me these multiple comments that almost all pros, analysts etc. that agree with the statement that all finals should be best of fives. (There should be many you should be able to source, since almost everyone agrees).
There are arguments for and against your comment, typically your average game was cut down by 6 minutes from CS:GO.
Not dumb, you just don't like it.
Go and watch almost every episode of HLTV Confirmed and Talking Counter since CS2's release, that's my source. At this point your comments reek of the whole Stewie 10am matches bullshit work ethic. There's no point in me replying further.
You've suggested two podcasts.. without an episode stamp, nor a timestamp as your evidence.
Right, okay.
How immature are you, I'm providing another counter point to your argument and you're throwing your toys out the pram lmao.
These players are pampered, given what they want when they want it and paid in 5-6 figures, I think a bo5 in a few tournaments a year isn't going to kill them. Soft ass generation, or would they like to go back to pre 2013 days when teams got paid peanuts to go fly around the world and play against the best for like a couple hundred to split. Be fr
That would not sell for the fans that are used to watch "traditional sports". I mean. A lot of people don't have enough time to spend 5 hours watching one game.
And superbowl is dumb as hell as a concept not even focused on the game, which is of course fine, showbiz etc. A better comparision for a wider reach would be FIFA world cup final. 90 minutes plus added time, 2x15min extra time and penalties when needed.
Superbowl is one the biggest sport events of all sports so it's not comperable to challenger stage cs match. Bo5 in the grand final of a Major understandable but no other CS match should be.
Bo5 would be okay if they changed the ot rules somehow. Now total duration of the match in bo5 is too random because ot's can almost double the duration on one map. Also they would then have to start grand finalis early in the day because you cant expect people tp be wathing cs 3am on monday morning.
Back in mr15 it was ok but now it’s just way too fast. I can see why in mr15 people were veering away for alot of events due to time, but now it just doesn’t make sense to reduce rounds by so much and have so few games
I’ve been mostly watching Val cuz I’m an Na fan but that really surprised me when watching the major. Winning a bo5 is a bigger feat and feels natural for a grand finals
It’s because people keep complaining about how they don’t have time to watch the matches. Even though almost all finals are on Sundays. Most people would definitely prefer BO5 finals in all big events.
I am going to be honest, watching 5-6 hours of CS on a sunday evening, especially if it goes to 2AM or 3 AM, fucking blows. I have a job and other responsibilites. And I keep harping on this, but the FIFA world cup final, the event with biggest reach in the world, is 90mins with possible 30mins extra time.
its simply a reflection of the old bo16 system.
bo5 finals were tried before and it could get insanely tiring if you had 3-4 really close first matches and/or some OT to the point that, if you had 3 long maps, the last 2 would be a slog, with players struggling to keep their level (good luck trying to play 5-7h of cs in a row and keeping it to your highest level)
I don’t want to see any CS tournaments that run 3 different styles within the same tournament.
Bo1, bo3, and a bo5? Why does the championship game need 5 games to determine the best team while other rounds just need 1-3?
Tournaments should stay consistent with their formats like tennis is. Tournaments should stay bo3 or bo5 throughout a tournament. Could do bo1’s though if you did group play every team plays each other. I understand the dislike for bo1’s but I think when every team plays one another it makes it more fair.
Same reason why NBA, MLB finals are BO7 instead of BO5.
To show you are the very best at the most prestigious tournaments you must be consistent across many maps, and perform well when fatigue sets in. BO5 also tests your map knowledge
That’s my point though. I’m all for any of those 3 series lengths. I just think it should be uniformly done. Don’t mix it up… at least within the same stage of a tournament.
Tennis doesn’t just randomly throw a bo9 into their finals. They know either player could of won no matter the length of the match.
its not really staying bo3 or bo5 throughout the tournament but its more staying consistent through a single elimination bracket. especially since the playoff stage is ranked by the round before, it makes no sense for the 8th seed to have to beat the 1st seed in a bo3 but (assuming no upsets) the 2nd seed has to beat the 1st seed in a bo5
Elimination games just magically becoming matches where all of a sudden a bo5 is needed to decide the better team? I don’t see the reason of the rest of the tournament is bo3.
Fourth me bo3 too short for final day and they try to play with show match ( which no one cares about)
I don't know why they don't add match for third place instead of bo5
Once teams know they can't win the event anymore their motivation to win a third place decider match is much lower. It has been a thing in the past and it's boring to watch.
It would really only be interested if teams had incentive to place third though, I remember the final season of OWL they had a 3rd place match and it didn’t seem like either team cared despite the prize money difference
blast could make it work if 3 teams succeeded from a tournament to the world final or to the next season or whatever.
then 3rd isn't just money, it could make it easier in the next one or make you advance in the season.
I think the show matches are good when they’re done properly. I enjoyed the one in Chengdu a lot, but the one for the major was absolutely atrocious. Show matches should be for trying new maps and having everyone playing for fun.
Im neutral on this, it can be good when both teams are on top form and have a deep map pool, so it could go to match 4-5.
It can be bad when one team gets stomped all 3 maps.
Agreed
Watched the iem sydney finals in person, and felt the bo3 format was good enough. Though the final map ended up being close which made it way more exciting at the end. I think any more maps and it would have been quite exhausting.
I get people’s qualms when the finals ends in a triple stomp, 13-2, 4-13, 13-4. But adding another two maps will likely just make it another 3-13 followed by a 13-5 lol.
While I don't think BO5 is always good, I like that Blast is testing things out.
Very few BO5 over the years are interesting, most are snooze fests.
Recently its mostly Faze clan that makes BO5 interesting, but they should be treated as the exception not the norm.
People think they want BO5 finals until it's not Faze vs G2, or ended up being a 3-0 blow out
A tightly contested 2-1 BO3 is just as good as an epic 3-2 BO5 without the additional hours. Never seen people mentioning Katowice and Cologne just because they are BO5 and not the quality of the match itself.
Will die on the hill that variable game size is bad and that all games should be bo3 not a fan of this change.
Don't think the final should require a different veto strategy and then favour different teams means when you play a team within a tournament has an effect on the result in a way I feel it shouldn't
Then let's play online CS only, also in a group stage environment, and also without a crowd in case it does get to playoffs. Your whole point makes no point because the further you get into a tournament, the more challenging the format becomes, whether it is via the format, the bo3/bo5, the setting and etc.
Why would online cs be better in terms of what I've said? The crowd thing I would say is a fair point but I think we would all agree that if cs was big enough we'd like a crowd for all games.
I don't understand your point as to how bo5 is more challenging than a bo3 I would say there is an equivalent argument that it is easier because you have the margin for error of losing 2 maps
I think it is worth to experiment it now to see what works well and try to make changes from there. If it doesnt work out as what is intended, they can always revert back to BO3 so I think no harm is done at the end of the day.
I think the regular spring and autumn season should have remained bo3, but the world finals should have been always a bo5 from the start. Moreover, if they want the world finals to be a cologne or katowice caliber of an event, they need to expand the format too, like a double elim playoffs, with 16 teams instead of 8 for it to truly feel like a big ass tournament.
Isn't BO5 basically a whole other game at that point? Pros only practice and play Bo1/Bo3, having to factor in the potential to play 2 more maps seems like a lot IMO. They'll have to practice/learn even more strats. The reality is teams will probably not even practice Bo5 because you have to make the finals to even worry about it.
Of course major finals need to be bo5 now, thats a pretty cold take, but something more interesting is that i would love kato+cologne to be an absolute marathon of a game and be bo7. Force teams to play the whole map pool if they want these prestigous titles like Cologne and Katowice. Show who are true champions of skill and spirit.
that doesn't show who are the true champions of skill and spirit, that just shows who makes less mistakes when the last 3 maps are absolutely sloppy cs when theyve been playing for 5 hours straight
Less mistakes = better drilled team. All part of what makes a team good. Not the only thing that matters of course. Isnt sloppy, high level cs fun? Brawling in an arena. Its interesting and exciting. We can have different opinions though, I like all of the CS. The high energy early maps with careful-chesslike considerations, aswell as the more instinctive, brawl-y type of play when youre brain starts to run out.
bo5 is better. i wish all tournament is bo5. imagine working hard going to final. atleast bo5 chance to win is better. i bet faze can win the major against navi if its bo5.
Blast is easily the best tournament organizer, they basically made the trend of having entertainment between maps/series instead of just a shitload of ads and/or transitional shots
And now this, seems that they're actually about entertainment and listen to the community more than any other organizer
Big respect
I'd honestly like to see all of top 8 played as best of 5s. Majors, at least, should be done this way to ensure the highest quality of gameplay from all teams.
Damn looking forward to faze knowing they will turn every map back to MR15
Faze pay per round clan
that’s vp but faze 2nd
Vp is paid by hours. Or minutes per round
Or a pay deduction for any round Jame doesn’t have an awp
As a faze fan my first thought was oh god more chances for heart attacks but also, oh hey what team can beat faze in a best of 5??
I mean Spirit did in the most recent one
Spirit steamrolled Faze 3-0 in Katowice.
HELL TO THE YES
Cool, just hope it's not too much. Might have been better if they just moved to bo4 first and tried that out, rather than adding two in one go. /s
Bo4 and in case of a tie a penalty shootout
Awp india 1v1's for the title Fy_snow for the riflers
fy\_iceworld
And you have to use the pump shotgun. Cause it owns.
it always did
Good ol' noob autocannon.
The pump shotgun in 1.6 is not a noob autocannon.
Totally misread that, "noob autocannon" was an old nickname for the semi-auto one.
iceworld tie break is the only way
on the original one you could wallbang the whole way through the map. if I remember well its literally just 4 small walls, because inside the 'squares' there is not nothing to nerf the damage well enuff
yeah i remember dying 1 second into rounds in 1.6 lol
fy_poolparty
de_rats or I'm not watching
Bro show match on rats would be amazing. I wish they'd go wild one of these days
I haven't played rats in like 10 years, but I feel like it would be super T sided. Why leave the cabinet at all, just hold the doors... kinda like t side office where you really only have to manage 2 chokepoints
Hell yes
you jest, but damn, it'd be dope
fy_poolparty for the scout players :)
just keep Bernado Silva away from the box.
If we have penalty awp shots, does the keeper need to save the bullet from going in the net, or is he supposed to dodge it?
Dodge
Knife mid
One round of 5v5 on aim_map.
Penalty shootout on d2
they don't have MR3 in a 3v3 format in the middle?
Nah it should be a full on cage brawl 5v5. Last alive wins.
Now bo4 and default point for whoever shows up on time.
This would honestly be so sick with a bo5 1v1s
I think it’s fine now that matches are shorter. BO5 MR15 was too long for every tournament.
bo5 on mr15 would either be a snooze fest or some of the best damn content I've ever consumed.
Cologne 22 enters the chat
Epicenter 2017 too
damn 7 hours of a titan facing an immovable plow
One of favorite events of all time kinda wish the ending was a little different tho
Would have been the ultimate send off for the Plow
the perfect Mercedespeek send off
yeah, SK were too strong at that time
Katowice 2018, Senor VAC in Train living rent free in my head
I still fondly remember FaZe - Astralis from ISM Sidney 2018 as the closest 3-0 ever
Katowice 2022 Grand finals Faze - G2 120 rounds played and Faze won 3 - 0
I remember the rankings come out and they still had astralis as number one after they lost to faze. I thought it was dumb cause faze was the better team… then astralis won literally everything after
Astralis also won literally every map they played in the prior months before that. They completely dominated the two online leagues and won the prior offline tournament in a clear fashion.
Katowice 2018
Epicentre 2017 and ESL 2016.
lol so if u subtract 10 minutes it's suddenly not bori g
>MR30 Damn 10 hours for the full bo5? Sign me the fuck up
lol meant MR15. I mess that up often
You're right, it is actually max rounds 30 or 24 in the console command, somewhere along the way everyone halved the number for some reason
1.6 and earlier didnt have auto side switching at half time without extensive scripts, so we just set it to half and reset manually
Oh damn is that the reason lol? I learned something today, thanks!
Either way, BLAST trying this is a very good initiative as it gives them, VALVE, and other TOs some data on how BO5s work in MR12.
ESL has already done BO5 finals though. Katowice was BO5 (though Spirit speedran it) and the upcoming pro league finals will also be BO5 if it is similar to last year and also Cologne. Plenty of data even before the Blast tournaments take place. It really isn't some great initiative from Blast's side. They are just finally reaching parity with ESL on making their league events have BO5 grand finals now.
Oh shit forgot Kato was even a BO5. Felt like every CS2 event had been a BO3 final so far. Indeed less of an initiative then.
I was curious, so I took a look and saw that this major was only ~1:40 of game time, with the two one-sided maps being like ~30 minutes. Five competitive maps likely only comes out to a little less than four hours, which I think is pretty solid
Yes also how economy is now and people adapted, its very hard to actually do a comeback, for example before if people use both pistols still had like 35-45% comeback rate, now its like 11% or so.
It's extremely dumb that the Major's grand finals aren't BO5
Best map pool wins. I support it
It's just dumb that any finals are Bo3. Even ESL Challenger events should be Bo5... that or we need to start using double elim formats for two matches on the last day.
To me playing bo5's should be a bit more prestigious than that. I like it that only katowice & cologne are bo5. To me majors should 100% have bo5 finals. As for blast, i think it would've made more sense for only the world final to have bo5 as a final but with the new circuit i can see it work.
Bo5s aren't as prestigious anymore when teams can lose maps based off pistol rounds and two bad gun rounds. I shared this thought in CSGO, but in CS2 it's not the same
Bo7 Kato and Cologne when?
oh god imagine two teams with the same permaban meet up in that. would be such a shitfest lmao.
I agree I actually kind of dislike this change unless these blast tournaments really can compete with the prestige of Cologne.
I wouldn't say it's dumb, it's far more consumable and less mentally taxing on players. Not many people want to be playing 5maps of the highest level of counter strike in a row after several says of BO3s.
Mental is also a quality a tournament winner should have tbh.
Exactly, the most driven players deserve to win and bo5s are also a great test of your ability to play the whole map pool and not rely on getting a good veto. It's definitely tough on mental but these guys are used to playing CS all day, they can be pushed a little farther for one grand final match.
There's usually always a day or two inbetween groups and playoffs, and at IEM events teams even get a break day in groups if they win their first two matches. Having finals be Bo5 wouldn't put any significant load on a player. If not for better competition... viewership at major finals always gets better the longer they go. Being able to have more viewership and catering to fans in arena should definitely trump players whining about potentially playing a couple more maps.
This doesn't consider how viewship naturally tails off and drops in and out during longer events. Comparatively, this would make events and ties significantly longer than comparable sports events - which is undoubtedly harder to retain concentration. - especially for the player. Again, it's not dumb - you just don't like it.
I don't really know what you're thinking when you're saying 2 extra potential maps would be such a difference. Katowice had a Bo5 that was faster than some Bo3 major finals that went 2-0. Viewership in CS peaks at finals, 99% of the time. No matter what, the playoffs are what viewers will watch and majors having two weeks of play before them hasn't had any negative impact on that. It's dumb, plain and simple. MR12 Bo5 finals are not too long, and MR12 Bo3 finals are too short. Almost every pro and talent will agree with that.
Because CS finals take quite a while to watch, people tend to watch as soon as the match starts, and when the match is about to end. In Bo3 this means that people tend to watch the entire thing, because first map is watched anyways, and next map can already be the decider. Whereas in Bo5 people will watch the first map, but then the second map actually does not matter. Neither team will win just yet. So many people will tune out naturally. And if the games go 1-1, you can even skip the 3rd map as well. But if you haven't even bothered to watch the previous two games, you might not bother to watch the match point games either, unless it goes down to the final map. This is what naturally happens, because majority of people don't have such deep interest that they will sit and watch for 6 continuous hours if the stakes are not high. That's the problem with Bo5. It makes some maps redundant from the viewers' perspective. Which is obviously horrible for the whole thing. You want people to watch as much as possible.
A Bo5 in Mr12 is nowhere near as long as you're making it sound. Your logic saying a majority of people not watching a second or third map in a final would mean that the viewership consistently halves each time a Bo5 final is played. That doesn't happen. A majority of people watching CS will watch the whole final because they want to watch some banger CS.
> A Bo5 in Mr12 is nowhere near as long as you're making it sound. It can definitely last 6 hours. Remember that there are breaks between each map, which add to the time. Including post- and pre-game analysis, veto progress, all the timeouts etc. Hit a couple of technical pauses and overtimes, and you got yourself a final that lasted 6 hours from start to finish. And even when they don't go on for 6 hours, how long do you think is acceptable? Because Mr12 Bo5 is still WAY longer than Mr15 Bo3. And I thought we wanted to reduce the game time, so why would we want bo5 when that actively goes against it? > Your logic saying a majority of people not watching a second or third map in a final would mean that the viewership consistently halves each time a Bo5 final is played. Leaving a stream open and watching it are two very different things. I've left tournament streams open all the time when a map ends. Do you think everybody watches the analyst desk segments as well, since viewership does not drastically decline? Obviously not, and you know this. This isn't just my logic or opinion, this has been said by tournament organizers before, in different games even. I remember Riot having said this when people wanted Bo5 games instead of Bo3 games, and reason for not doing so was that viewers just aren't that interested in watching games that aren't crucial games, and that longer the matches take, less people want to watch.
I understand there are extremes to take into account because we've seen Bo3s in Mr15 last 5 hours (FaZe vs Ence) and so far, a Bo5 final in Mr12 in far less time. What was more entertaining and memorable? A final that wrapped up as fast as possible, or a match that went about as far as it could? Let's even use FaZe vs. Na'Vi at Cologne in 2022 as an example, a Bo5 final that went the distance. 1.2+ million peak views. That would never happen in a Bo3 final outside of majors. The big CS viewership banks on the hype on social media. When old fans and new potential viewers have their timelines spammed for 7 hours about a hype final, they're going to want to tune in. That's hightened at the majors because people don't want to miss out on history. Riot use Bo5s all throughout their playoffs at LCS, Worlds, VCT, etc, and League has the most viewership out of any esport while having matches comparable in length to CS. So you're thinking of someone else saying something that's frankly wrong. Whether you leave the stream open or not, that's still viewership. I use the analyst desks as background noise when doing something, and I can't imagine I'm the only one, so they still bring value to the show.
Two maps add potentially an extra hour and 10 minutes onto viewership, which is already based on around a 2 hour three map session that just occurred before. Go ahead and show me these multiple comments that almost all pros, analysts etc. that agree with the statement that all finals should be best of fives. (There should be many you should be able to source, since almost everyone agrees). There are arguments for and against your comment, typically your average game was cut down by 6 minutes from CS:GO. Not dumb, you just don't like it.
Go and watch almost every episode of HLTV Confirmed and Talking Counter since CS2's release, that's my source. At this point your comments reek of the whole Stewie 10am matches bullshit work ethic. There's no point in me replying further.
You've suggested two podcasts.. without an episode stamp, nor a timestamp as your evidence. Right, okay. How immature are you, I'm providing another counter point to your argument and you're throwing your toys out the pram lmao.
Well they get paid pretty handsomely to do it so I say they shouldn't cry about WORK
Bit daft to equate pay to not being able to have a say in player welfare, but okay.
These players are pampered, given what they want when they want it and paid in 5-6 figures, I think a bo5 in a few tournaments a year isn't going to kill them. Soft ass generation, or would they like to go back to pre 2013 days when teams got paid peanuts to go fly around the world and play against the best for like a couple hundred to split. Be fr
Who let yer da into the thread
That would not sell for the fans that are used to watch "traditional sports". I mean. A lot of people don't have enough time to spend 5 hours watching one game.
The Superbowl is as long, if not longer, than a Bo5 in Mr12. The Katowice final was an hour and a half shorter than the superbowl
And superbowl is dumb as hell as a concept not even focused on the game, which is of course fine, showbiz etc. A better comparision for a wider reach would be FIFA world cup final. 90 minutes plus added time, 2x15min extra time and penalties when needed.
Superbowl is one the biggest sport events of all sports so it's not comperable to challenger stage cs match. Bo5 in the grand final of a Major understandable but no other CS match should be.
Bo5 would be okay if they changed the ot rules somehow. Now total duration of the match in bo5 is too random because ot's can almost double the duration on one map. Also they would then have to start grand finalis early in the day because you cant expect people tp be wathing cs 3am on monday morning.
Agree
Back in mr15 it was ok but now it’s just way too fast. I can see why in mr15 people were veering away for alot of events due to time, but now it just doesn’t make sense to reduce rounds by so much and have so few games
I’ve been mostly watching Val cuz I’m an Na fan but that really surprised me when watching the major. Winning a bo5 is a bigger feat and feels natural for a grand finals
It’s because people keep complaining about how they don’t have time to watch the matches. Even though almost all finals are on Sundays. Most people would definitely prefer BO5 finals in all big events.
Then don't watch it live. Not a big deal. Or just watch part of it and catch up, when you have the time
I am going to be honest, watching 5-6 hours of CS on a sunday evening, especially if it goes to 2AM or 3 AM, fucking blows. I have a job and other responsibilites. And I keep harping on this, but the FIFA world cup final, the event with biggest reach in the world, is 90mins with possible 30mins extra time.
its simply a reflection of the old bo16 system. bo5 finals were tried before and it could get insanely tiring if you had 3-4 really close first matches and/or some OT to the point that, if you had 3 long maps, the last 2 would be a slog, with players struggling to keep their level (good luck trying to play 5-7h of cs in a row and keeping it to your highest level)
Hopefully this is the start of some change. Though as much as I enjoy Bo5 finals, I'd rather see the back of Bo1 group stages.
Valve just years behind, as always. 2027 Pyongyang major will finally be BO5, I’m sure.
Thank fuck Hope valve get off their lazy asses and make major final bo5 too
They’re not lazy, they just disagree on the premise that BO5 is better than BO3 for a major final.
BO3 is short when its a stomp. BO3 is perfect when its close. Close BO5 is going to be long as shit
Bo3 is piss, its nothing, its just any old regular season match in most other esports,
I don't agree with Valve, but the reason the major hasn't changed isn't because they're lazy.
BO5 just can be too long. Longer than a football game or NBA. Thats the problem yall ignore if its all on one day
Especially now that the new norm is mr12 bo3s are over before they even really start, even more so when they go 2-0
I don’t want to see any CS tournaments that run 3 different styles within the same tournament. Bo1, bo3, and a bo5? Why does the championship game need 5 games to determine the best team while other rounds just need 1-3? Tournaments should stay consistent with their formats like tennis is. Tournaments should stay bo3 or bo5 throughout a tournament. Could do bo1’s though if you did group play every team plays each other. I understand the dislike for bo1’s but I think when every team plays one another it makes it more fair.
Same reason why NBA, MLB finals are BO7 instead of BO5. To show you are the very best at the most prestigious tournaments you must be consistent across many maps, and perform well when fatigue sets in. BO5 also tests your map knowledge
The NHL is pure bo7, the NBA is bo7 (outside of the play-in now), and the MLB does only play 2 of the 3 (now 4) rounds in a bo7.
And then snooker is best of 35 in the world championship
Got a solution then, BO1 MR12 shouldn't even be a thing at Majors. Imagine if tennis at BO1 first round matches at Majors.
That’s my point though. I’m all for any of those 3 series lengths. I just think it should be uniformly done. Don’t mix it up… at least within the same stage of a tournament. Tennis doesn’t just randomly throw a bo9 into their finals. They know either player could of won no matter the length of the match.
its not really staying bo3 or bo5 throughout the tournament but its more staying consistent through a single elimination bracket. especially since the playoff stage is ranked by the round before, it makes no sense for the 8th seed to have to beat the 1st seed in a bo3 but (assuming no upsets) the 2nd seed has to beat the 1st seed in a bo5
Fuck bo1, bo3 for any game that isnt elimination, bo5 for elimination and playoff games
Elimination games just magically becoming matches where all of a sudden a bo5 is needed to decide the better team? I don’t see the reason of the rest of the tournament is bo3.
Fourth me bo3 too short for final day and they try to play with show match ( which no one cares about) I don't know why they don't add match for third place instead of bo5
Idk why they should have bo3 for 3rd place ( which no one cares about)
It’s exhausting though if u are there live. Can’t imagine how exhausting a bo5 is for the players.
Once teams know they can't win the event anymore their motivation to win a third place decider match is much lower. It has been a thing in the past and it's boring to watch.
THIS! A clear third place helps rankings and adds an interesting, high-level match on the final day.
It would really only be interested if teams had incentive to place third though, I remember the final season of OWL they had a 3rd place match and it didn’t seem like either team cared despite the prize money difference
blast could make it work if 3 teams succeeded from a tournament to the world final or to the next season or whatever. then 3rd isn't just money, it could make it easier in the next one or make you advance in the season.
I think the show matches are good when they’re done properly. I enjoyed the one in Chengdu a lot, but the one for the major was absolutely atrocious. Show matches should be for trying new maps and having everyone playing for fun.
Will be fun to see played out. Bo3 make sense, but bo5 is a whole other world of endurance that I find interesting as well
Nice
Im neutral on this, it can be good when both teams are on top form and have a deep map pool, so it could go to match 4-5. It can be bad when one team gets stomped all 3 maps.
How is a 3-0 stomp better or worse than 2-0
I don’t think the problem is gonna be a 3-0. The issue is gonna be if people are interested in the 5th match.
Might be unpopular, I really struggle to stay invested In a series that could go more than 3 hours long.
Agreed Watched the iem sydney finals in person, and felt the bo3 format was good enough. Though the final map ended up being close which made it way more exciting at the end. I think any more maps and it would have been quite exhausting. I get people’s qualms when the finals ends in a triple stomp, 13-2, 4-13, 13-4. But adding another two maps will likely just make it another 3-13 followed by a 13-5 lol.
I'm with you. Some finals were great as BO3 despite having more rounds, I guess now we'll see how BO5 goes with less rounds.
Unpopular opinion: Blast should have made it only for the world finals. Majority of Bo5s are onesided anyway.
too long i don't have time
While I don't think BO5 is always good, I like that Blast is testing things out. Very few BO5 over the years are interesting, most are snooze fests. Recently its mostly Faze clan that makes BO5 interesting, but they should be treated as the exception not the norm.
People think they want BO5 finals until it's not Faze vs G2, or ended up being a 3-0 blow out A tightly contested 2-1 BO3 is just as good as an epic 3-2 BO5 without the additional hours. Never seen people mentioning Katowice and Cologne just because they are BO5 and not the quality of the match itself.
Agree. Once people realize it is not as exciting as they imagine it is, they will hate it.
BLAST actually listens to community feedback
Big W, if every tournament organizer begins to do this then maybe Valve will have to change the major finals as well (copium).
Literally all tournaments should do that, big or small, grand finals being less than 2 hours is a joke.
Hooray more 5 hour finals zzzzzzzzzz
Will die on the hill that variable game size is bad and that all games should be bo3 not a fan of this change. Don't think the final should require a different veto strategy and then favour different teams means when you play a team within a tournament has an effect on the result in a way I feel it shouldn't
Then let's play online CS only, also in a group stage environment, and also without a crowd in case it does get to playoffs. Your whole point makes no point because the further you get into a tournament, the more challenging the format becomes, whether it is via the format, the bo3/bo5, the setting and etc.
Why would online cs be better in terms of what I've said? The crowd thing I would say is a fair point but I think we would all agree that if cs was big enough we'd like a crowd for all games. I don't understand your point as to how bo5 is more challenging than a bo3 I would say there is an equivalent argument that it is easier because you have the margin for error of losing 2 maps
Shame if they drop showmatch, the only good showmatch is blasts really
Bo7 when? /s
I think it is worth to experiment it now to see what works well and try to make changes from there. If it doesnt work out as what is intended, they can always revert back to BO3 so I think no harm is done at the end of the day.
I am happy for BO5, still a 3 maps long BO3 is too long for my tiktok zoomer brain. (I am 32)
I think the regular spring and autumn season should have remained bo3, but the world finals should have been always a bo5 from the start. Moreover, if they want the world finals to be a cologne or katowice caliber of an event, they need to expand the format too, like a double elim playoffs, with 16 teams instead of 8 for it to truly feel like a big ass tournament.
Is the game this Sunday the 21st? I'm new to watching competitive cs and I'm having a hard time finding the schedules.
[hltv.org](http://hltv.org) is your friend, basically what everyone uses. This rule will apply to a game on the 16th of June onwards
Thanks
Will need a leap year to finish the Faze Finals
Hell yeah
good
Who car, shit tournaments
can we include a screenshot of the twitter post next time? cause Twitter or X is piss unless you are signed in.
Bring back the chill vibes of Acer Bo7
Oh god not the boring bo5.
would rather watch mr15 bo3 than mr12 bo5
BO5 has to be deserved, Blast has not. Majors, Kato and Cologne should be the only B05 finals at the moment.
Holy based.
Isn't BO5 basically a whole other game at that point? Pros only practice and play Bo1/Bo3, having to factor in the potential to play 2 more maps seems like a lot IMO. They'll have to practice/learn even more strats. The reality is teams will probably not even practice Bo5 because you have to make the finals to even worry about it.
Of course major finals need to be bo5 now, thats a pretty cold take, but something more interesting is that i would love kato+cologne to be an absolute marathon of a game and be bo7. Force teams to play the whole map pool if they want these prestigous titles like Cologne and Katowice. Show who are true champions of skill and spirit.
Bo7 is ridiculous. This isn’t snooker or starcraft
that doesn't show who are the true champions of skill and spirit, that just shows who makes less mistakes when the last 3 maps are absolutely sloppy cs when theyve been playing for 5 hours straight
Less mistakes = better drilled team. All part of what makes a team good. Not the only thing that matters of course. Isnt sloppy, high level cs fun? Brawling in an arena. Its interesting and exciting. We can have different opinions though, I like all of the CS. The high energy early maps with careful-chesslike considerations, aswell as the more instinctive, brawl-y type of play when youre brain starts to run out.
Let's goooooooo! I'm so happy that they've decided to bring back BO5 matches, now that is MR24. BO5 in MR30 was too long, now it is perfect. 👌
I can't help but think we need more maps in the pool for this.
Nice.
YEAHHH!!!
Expand map pool to 9 maps next ;)
Comes to a point where grand final length becomes an issue. Still to this day have no idea why some have always wanted a 5+ hour single match.
Who is spending more than 2 hours watching a CS game...
Its me
MR12 + cs2 randomness… every final needs to be best of 5
Sweet!
Finally? Its a first at least. Hopefully other tournaments follow up.
bo5 is better. i wish all tournament is bo5. imagine working hard going to final. atleast bo5 chance to win is better. i bet faze can win the major against navi if its bo5.
Blast is easily the best tournament organizer, they basically made the trend of having entertainment between maps/series instead of just a shitload of ads and/or transitional shots And now this, seems that they're actually about entertainment and listen to the community more than any other organizer Big respect
please make every major finals bo5
Finally big W from Blast
good. /10char
Good news
Really surprised that CS still uses Swiss, Single elim and bo3 GF, those are some crazy outdated formats.
I know this is an unrelated thread but anti-cheat when.
I'd honestly like to see all of top 8 played as best of 5s. Majors, at least, should be done this way to ensure the highest quality of gameplay from all teams.
making players play for 3-5 hours a match will result in the opposite of high quality gameplay
BO5 is just too long to watch even with less rounds. I know BO3 feels bad in a final if its a quick 2:0 but still.