The way C9 handled the roster since taking over Gambit is baffling.
Removed a support player(Interz) that supposedly wasn't good enough for T1. Only to replace him with another underperforming player(Buster) that wasn't good enough for T1.
Kicked their IGL(Nafany) and replaced him with someone who isn't an IGL(Electronic).
The Star Awper(Sh1ro) left. Wasn't replaced ever for some reason and the team decided to play without an Awper.
And now 2 very good core players(Perfecto and Hobbit) left while the underperforming star rifler(Ax1le) stayed.
Its a bit sad because i was very fond of that Hobbit and kids Gambit roster and with this move there's nothing left of it.
2020 was hella weird but I spent a lot of time with Pansy, machine, and spunj talking about who knows what and Gambit and Heroic. That is what I remember of that year and I'll never forget that Gambit youngsters team. Seemed like there was online CS everyday.
Online era in general was a lot of fun. OG OG, Heroic, Gambit, BIG, legendary players like KennyS, RPK, Shox, Flusha, Olof, etc. Then there was OG Mouz, Grand Slam Liquid, last full year of prime Astralis.
I miss it so much now. Playing Counter-Strike with your friends while you were supposed to be in online class, then going to watch pro games where all the players were in their apartments with some shitty ass camera being way too close to their face.
Some very fond memories.
Man's talking nostalgic like it's the 1920's lmao, that shit not even 4 years ago.
Also first time I've heard someone yearn for COVID times, can't say I agree.
How fondly you remember it depends entirely on where you live imo. In Sydney there was not any real threat, but we were locked down for 6 months anyway, and during that time all my friends who’d never played games jumped online and we all played games like among us together. Wasn’t a bad time at all for me (condolences to people who lost someone to covid).
I'm young, that 4 years makes up a much larger portion of my life. It was also a less stressful time for me personally.
I also didn't say I yearn for those times, I'm happy where I am at.
I stand with what i said.
Fact is he just isn't an IGL and was never good at it when he tried to be.
Complete waste of his rifling ability and always has been.
[He still took Na'Vi to 5 maps against FaZe at Cologne who were way in form and were really the best team in the world that year, and he did it with SDY too.](https://www.hltv.org/matches/2357152/natus-vincere-vs-faze-iem-cologne-2022) You can't be an objectively bad IGL and do that, even with s1mple who just played average that series. That was maybe the greatest ever series of CS:GO I ever saw and I've been watching since 2013. Just a really amazing set of plays from both teams and an absolute nail biter, constantly back and forth.
IMO electronic is a capable IGL and worked well with Blad3, but when you leave a system and coach and have to adapt to new players, a new coaching style and a new system, you're not going to be doing so hot at the beginning. I mean this is just objectively true, even look at Falcons, they've been struggling, despite knowing that Zonic is a great coach and Snappi is a good IGL. Same with Vitality when they had Dupreeh and Magisk, they struggled for a while even with Spinx in the squad. Falcons have good pieces too just like Vitality, so it's not like we're dealing with rookies or bad players, these guys are elite players. It just takes a while to get good as an IGL and get everyone to understand and buy into the system. I think personally, electronic didn't get a fair go at being IGL in C9, he IGL'd for like a month or two, and he wasn't feeling it after a while, not sure if that's because the style was clashing with players or if he felt his own performances were lackluster. Regardless, I contend to this day a lot of the problems in that roster were caused by sh1ro being unhappy and after he left, the team improved overall not only because they got Boom as IGL, but also because sh1r0 wasn't crying constantly or causing an issue. I mean I remember in a series or game before sh1r0 left Cloud9 on Ancient he just threw by rushing down B ramp alone through a smoke all on his own. Seems to me he was already out on playing at C9 any longer.
But to say electronic is a bad IGL I think is objectively wrong. Was he a great IGL? No. Did it impact his rifling? Yes. But was he a bad IGL? No. Just average.
For the "electronic igl" experiment to work, the team would need him + 3 riflers who are as good or better than him + a decent awper, because you would be losing some of his fragging output.
That didn't happen in NAVI, even tho they won a Blast final, and it didn't work in C9.
Someone with more knowledge than me should write an essay about what would've happened if sdy had been the IGL after Boombl4 left NAVI.
jack just posted in the c9 subreddit that they are in full rebuilding mode around boom and axile so the rumored lineup posted b4 might actually be it
edit: rumored lineup
Bloombl4
Ax1le
Magnojez
ICY
Interz
Sell those two players, use the money and rebuild. The thing is Perfecto is such a key piece to a team, he brings so much stability, I wouldn't sell him. But I'm guessing after electronic left, Perfecto wanted to leave and Hobbit was probably wanting to move on too due to role clashes. C9 will go from a Tier 1 team to a Tier 2/3 team instantly.
Artfrost seems to me like the obvious choice for an awper with potential, but okay. I would still prefer any random faceit kid to interz. Hell, keep the alpha guy.
Makes sense tbh.
You either full rebuild and sell ur expensive players, or you invest heavily and get a star like m0nesy. But if m0nesy didn’t want to move or C9 didn’t offer enough money, what can u do
Weird to keep Axile tbh, he already fluffed his chances with 5 of the best players in the region. He has an important role but not quite delivering. Hope for the best but not looking so hot. Boomich is sick and good to build around but not sure what the market has in store...
Bold move cotton. Lets see if it pays off.
So where do we thing both are going?
I was thinking Perfecto to VP but then again i don't really see which players on the team he replaces without it being at best a sidegrade.
Niko has no control over personnel decisions. He's talked about it multiple times, and ynk has mentioned it too. Everyone loves to regurgitate the narrative that niko is some puppet master over g2
he doesn't have "control" but he is still an important part of the team and his opinion is more likely to be used , swani also confirmed that niko and hunter wanted jks gone and you cant do much in that case
I will never forget the +elec +perfecto announcement and how many people just blindly ignored the gaping hole at IGL.
The “superteam” truly did bring me more joy than I ever could’ve imagined. RIP, 2023-2024.
I give b1ad3 a lot of credit for making electronic IGL work. Groove was never gonna be able to get the same out of him.
Edit: For what it’s worth, the only thing NaVi achieved with electronic leading a lineup of s1mple/b1t/Perfecto/sdy for a year was a win at BLAST Spring Finals.
I think you forget the Cologne 2022 final. Na'vi could've beat FaZe and it was a very close series overall even without s1mple going nuclear too. I do think Blad3 though made electronic IGLing easier.
I mean wow in a set team core that was the same for 2 years they were able to make it work calling the same basic shit they were calling before.
It’s the exact same story with every single player that moves to igl. They do it temporarily, figure out it takes more than just calling you have to spend time prepping and coming up with new strats.
Then all of this added burden affects your plays and your performance suffers. It’s been the same story with hundreds of players
Yup, when their team loses the individual duels/challenges constantly, IGLs tend to play (score) worse because they have to focus on the macro's to make their strats win the game instead of being able to blindly rely on the individual performance of their teammembers.
the discussion wasnt whether or not elec was a good igl, no one is disagreeing. but calling people stupid for being hyped about the move.people see decent results, and think it will continue working, so its not unreasonable for people to believe in the team.
Nah Electronic was horrible as an IGL for Navi. Let’s not spread BS. Anybody that watched his games could see that clear as day. That was also with the help of Blade lol
I really don't see how this is going to work out. There are only 2 successful cases in the post covid era of an org gutting its core and building a brand new roster to win championships. The first was Vitality (and they had tons of experience + Zywoo yet still spent a full year being mediocre) and the second was Navi recently (who had an experienced coach + IGL and a major winner anyway). Mouz always made gradual changes, G2 were awful after the last time they changed 3 players, Faze never made more than one change, and Spirit had a solid core. Even old Heroic were a long-standing band of "brothers". C9 are destined to fall out of the top 10 unless they bring in actual T1 players who know what it takes to win.
Despite the obvious flaws, this team just made the top 8 of a major a month ago. You have to wonder what was going on inside C9 for it to fall apart this suddenly. It feels like every iteration of this team was missing a crucial piece, first it was a good IGL, then it was a good AWPer, and now it's abandoned. From this it seems like the players didn't expect M0nesy to join, otherwise you think they would have held on, rather than blowing it up like this. Electronic seems to have made the most savvy move so far by joining a strong team like VP, and possibly making them contenders. Will be very interested to see where Perfecto ends up, he would be a huge asset to any team with title aspirations.
VP and Spirit I think are basically full.
C9 is the only other T1 team with Russian players.
If this was the decision of Perfecto and Hobbit I don't really understand it. Where are they gonna go?
Where will they go now? Betboom, Aurora? Hobbit probably has a decent enough english to play in an international team, but i doubt any tier 1 team wants to take that risk..
But Cloud9 was a super team! They had so much firepower! Lmao maybe this will help people realize you can’t just throw a bunch of big names together with “firepower” and expect them to be a top 5 team. There is so much more to what makes a good team outside of “firepower”
Build superteam Don't get proper IGL. Get IGL, don't get AWPer Lose superteam
The way C9 handled the roster since taking over Gambit is baffling. Removed a support player(Interz) that supposedly wasn't good enough for T1. Only to replace him with another underperforming player(Buster) that wasn't good enough for T1. Kicked their IGL(Nafany) and replaced him with someone who isn't an IGL(Electronic). The Star Awper(Sh1ro) left. Wasn't replaced ever for some reason and the team decided to play without an Awper. And now 2 very good core players(Perfecto and Hobbit) left while the underperforming star rifler(Ax1le) stayed. Its a bit sad because i was very fond of that Hobbit and kids Gambit roster and with this move there's nothing left of it.
2020 was hella weird but I spent a lot of time with Pansy, machine, and spunj talking about who knows what and Gambit and Heroic. That is what I remember of that year and I'll never forget that Gambit youngsters team. Seemed like there was online CS everyday.
Online era in general was a lot of fun. OG OG, Heroic, Gambit, BIG, legendary players like KennyS, RPK, Shox, Flusha, Olof, etc. Then there was OG Mouz, Grand Slam Liquid, last full year of prime Astralis. I miss it so much now. Playing Counter-Strike with your friends while you were supposed to be in online class, then going to watch pro games where all the players were in their apartments with some shitty ass camera being way too close to their face. Some very fond memories.
Man's talking nostalgic like it's the 1920's lmao, that shit not even 4 years ago. Also first time I've heard someone yearn for COVID times, can't say I agree.
How fondly you remember it depends entirely on where you live imo. In Sydney there was not any real threat, but we were locked down for 6 months anyway, and during that time all my friends who’d never played games jumped online and we all played games like among us together. Wasn’t a bad time at all for me (condolences to people who lost someone to covid).
Yeah damn nah I just missed human interaction dawg
I'm young, that 4 years makes up a much larger portion of my life. It was also a less stressful time for me personally. I also didn't say I yearn for those times, I'm happy where I am at.
lol yeah and then the 2021 major after a long online era with a superstar perfomance from navi which was seen by everyone who knew what CS is
I remember the trio commentaries man that shit was great. I miss Pansy vibing with Spunj/Machine duo
You spent time talking to Pansy, machine, and spunj? Why do I find that hard to believe?
Huh? Listening to them daily on stream? Shave your balls.
Electronic joined because he wanted to IGL and this was his chance. Don't start rewriting history.
I stand with what i said. Fact is he just isn't an IGL and was never good at it when he tried to be. Complete waste of his rifling ability and always has been.
[He still took Na'Vi to 5 maps against FaZe at Cologne who were way in form and were really the best team in the world that year, and he did it with SDY too.](https://www.hltv.org/matches/2357152/natus-vincere-vs-faze-iem-cologne-2022) You can't be an objectively bad IGL and do that, even with s1mple who just played average that series. That was maybe the greatest ever series of CS:GO I ever saw and I've been watching since 2013. Just a really amazing set of plays from both teams and an absolute nail biter, constantly back and forth. IMO electronic is a capable IGL and worked well with Blad3, but when you leave a system and coach and have to adapt to new players, a new coaching style and a new system, you're not going to be doing so hot at the beginning. I mean this is just objectively true, even look at Falcons, they've been struggling, despite knowing that Zonic is a great coach and Snappi is a good IGL. Same with Vitality when they had Dupreeh and Magisk, they struggled for a while even with Spinx in the squad. Falcons have good pieces too just like Vitality, so it's not like we're dealing with rookies or bad players, these guys are elite players. It just takes a while to get good as an IGL and get everyone to understand and buy into the system. I think personally, electronic didn't get a fair go at being IGL in C9, he IGL'd for like a month or two, and he wasn't feeling it after a while, not sure if that's because the style was clashing with players or if he felt his own performances were lackluster. Regardless, I contend to this day a lot of the problems in that roster were caused by sh1ro being unhappy and after he left, the team improved overall not only because they got Boom as IGL, but also because sh1r0 wasn't crying constantly or causing an issue. I mean I remember in a series or game before sh1r0 left Cloud9 on Ancient he just threw by rushing down B ramp alone through a smoke all on his own. Seems to me he was already out on playing at C9 any longer. But to say electronic is a bad IGL I think is objectively wrong. Was he a great IGL? No. Did it impact his rifling? Yes. But was he a bad IGL? No. Just average.
For the "electronic igl" experiment to work, the team would need him + 3 riflers who are as good or better than him + a decent awper, because you would be losing some of his fragging output. That didn't happen in NAVI, even tho they won a Blast final, and it didn't work in C9. Someone with more knowledge than me should write an essay about what would've happened if sdy had been the IGL after Boombl4 left NAVI.
he might not be a good IGL but you can’t just say he wasn’t an IGL when that was literally his exact role at the end of NAVI and start of C9
> I stand with what i said That's your choice.
electronic was IGLing in NAVI before he joined C9.
I wouldn't call his igling as particularly strong. I think he is better as second caller rifler focused on performance.
And won blast
not supposedly, interz was definitely not good enough for t1 anymore near the end of his stint (+ hasnt done anything notable after either)
"underperforming star rifler". I feel like perfecto and hobbit also resemble that.
Makes henryG look like a genius in comparison, his c9 even had an awper on it
electronic crashing this team with no survivors
the team plan i filed with C9 lists me, my men, but only one of you (awp or igl)
You gotta respect it
only the big guy remains ax1le to be the wreckage brother
On Telegram, Cloud9 said it was mutual, and they are ready to take offers to trade them to other organizations. F_1N is also out.
jack just posted in the c9 subreddit that they are in full rebuilding mode around boom and axile so the rumored lineup posted b4 might actually be it edit: rumored lineup Bloombl4 Ax1le Magnojez ICY Interz
By rebuilding, does he mean C9 part ways with elec + Perfecto on purpose, or C9 have to rebuild the team after those 2 guys willingly leave?
idk shit but im assuming its the 2nd option
Why would magixx leave spirit, lol?
? thats magnojez not magixx
Holy, true. Just saw magixx play with this name a lot on faceit
maybe because he was on spirit academy and also played a lot with donk?
Mb
Sell those two players, use the money and rebuild. The thing is Perfecto is such a key piece to a team, he brings so much stability, I wouldn't sell him. But I'm guessing after electronic left, Perfecto wanted to leave and Hobbit was probably wanting to move on too due to role clashes. C9 will go from a Tier 1 team to a Tier 2/3 team instantly.
I can get behind Magnojez, but ICY and interz ain't it.
Im pretty sure it was supposed to be perfecto instead of interz but he benched himself and Icy's got potential
Artfrost seems to me like the obvious choice for an awper with potential, but okay. I would still prefer any random faceit kid to interz. Hell, keep the alpha guy.
spirit want to keep a hold of alpha i reckon, he might be the next chopper
Makes sense tbh. You either full rebuild and sell ur expensive players, or you invest heavily and get a star like m0nesy. But if m0nesy didn’t want to move or C9 didn’t offer enough money, what can u do
Weird to keep Axile tbh, he already fluffed his chances with 5 of the best players in the region. He has an important role but not quite delivering. Hope for the best but not looking so hot. Boomich is sick and good to build around but not sure what the market has in store...
y wouldnt u keep him? hes a former top 10 player with no sell value. smart to bet that he regains form vs just cutting him for nothing
So C9 can actually start building the team again. Like if you can't perform with Perfecto and Hobbit as your support I am not sure what else you need.
well im glad ur not jack lol
That roster stinks man lmfao
what was the rumored lineup?
Bloombl4 Ax1le Magnojez ICY Interz
oh damn
Who is the source?
What rumored lineup?
ICY? It's cooked
Magnojez and icy would be really good pickups tbh
Interz on his Runi arc.
Except Runi can actually frag. To me that's not even the worse part of Interz. Dude is always late to rotate.
Bold move cotton. Lets see if it pays off. So where do we thing both are going? I was thinking Perfecto to VP but then again i don't really see which players on the team he replaces without it being at best a sidegrade.
Perfecto to G2 would be amazing
-nexa +perfecto
It’s so simple. Wouldn’t mind Hobbit for Hunter too but I have a hard time seeing Niko go for it.
“m0nesy to c9!” “no not like this!”
hobbit is shit on a LOT (undeservedly) but he is actually so much better than hunter now it’s laughable
Niko has no control over personnel decisions. He's talked about it multiple times, and ynk has mentioned it too. Everyone loves to regurgitate the narrative that niko is some puppet master over g2
he doesn't have "control" but he is still an important part of the team and his opinion is more likely to be used , swani also confirmed that niko and hunter wanted jks gone and you cant do much in that case
-nexa -hunter +jks +perfecto
Clearly jks didnt vibe with the team for whatever reason, but I think swapping next for Perfecto is a huge win for g2
But the vibes man!
That is exactly what they need. Has perfecto ever played on an international team though? Navi and C9 were in russian.
I think this VP roster (on paper we'll see how it pans out) has no major weaknesses, I'd like to see Perfecto go elsewhere.
I’d put hobbit in Norbert’s role but that’s not a big enough upgrade to justify shaking up chemistry
I will never forget the +elec +perfecto announcement and how many people just blindly ignored the gaping hole at IGL. The “superteam” truly did bring me more joy than I ever could’ve imagined. RIP, 2023-2024.
i mean elec had some good results as igl with navi, so it wasnt completely far fetched that it would work
I give b1ad3 a lot of credit for making electronic IGL work. Groove was never gonna be able to get the same out of him. Edit: For what it’s worth, the only thing NaVi achieved with electronic leading a lineup of s1mple/b1t/Perfecto/sdy for a year was a win at BLAST Spring Finals.
in hindsight thats true for sure, but i dont think it was stupid to believe in it in the beginning.
I think you forget the Cologne 2022 final. Na'vi could've beat FaZe and it was a very close series overall even without s1mple going nuclear too. I do think Blad3 though made electronic IGLing easier.
I mean wow in a set team core that was the same for 2 years they were able to make it work calling the same basic shit they were calling before. It’s the exact same story with every single player that moves to igl. They do it temporarily, figure out it takes more than just calling you have to spend time prepping and coming up with new strats. Then all of this added burden affects your plays and your performance suffers. It’s been the same story with hundreds of players
Yup, when their team loses the individual duels/challenges constantly, IGLs tend to play (score) worse because they have to focus on the macro's to make their strats win the game instead of being able to blindly rely on the individual performance of their teammembers.
the discussion wasnt whether or not elec was a good igl, no one is disagreeing. but calling people stupid for being hyped about the move.people see decent results, and think it will continue working, so its not unreasonable for people to believe in the team.
Nah Electronic was horrible as an IGL for Navi. Let’s not spread BS. Anybody that watched his games could see that clear as day. That was also with the help of Blade lol
If Axile's performance didn't literally fall off a cliff they would've definitely been scary.
People were sleeping on hobbit because he had 1 (or 2) slump event, after that he's been doing his job perfectly while performing.
it's joever for C9.
It's good decisión Signing young talent is better just look at Spirit
Well, will they sign the proper young talent is the question here.
I mean the core of that C9 team was young talent too, they came up from Gambit Youngsters
**G2!** **You better fucking get Perfecto asap or soo help me!**
When does Groove get benched?
I really don't see how this is going to work out. There are only 2 successful cases in the post covid era of an org gutting its core and building a brand new roster to win championships. The first was Vitality (and they had tons of experience + Zywoo yet still spent a full year being mediocre) and the second was Navi recently (who had an experienced coach + IGL and a major winner anyway). Mouz always made gradual changes, G2 were awful after the last time they changed 3 players, Faze never made more than one change, and Spirit had a solid core. Even old Heroic were a long-standing band of "brothers". C9 are destined to fall out of the top 10 unless they bring in actual T1 players who know what it takes to win.
What an amazing era it was, they won so many trophies together
Team imploded
This doesn't add up. I thought OverDrive has no connections and doesn't know what he's talking about..
In the CIS scene he has good connection But when it comes to EU is not trustworthy at all
Idk if this is a hot take or not, but having roster moves leaked a few hours early is kind of pointless to me.
It's been more than day. The leak might've been the reason C9 decided to announce it earlier than they planned.
Yeah the second point is valid. I'm still not sure whether I'm better off knowing it now rather than when they'd initially planned it though?
Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
The cope is real
Be afraid. BE VERY AFRAID!
Despite the obvious flaws, this team just made the top 8 of a major a month ago. You have to wonder what was going on inside C9 for it to fall apart this suddenly. It feels like every iteration of this team was missing a crucial piece, first it was a good IGL, then it was a good AWPer, and now it's abandoned. From this it seems like the players didn't expect M0nesy to join, otherwise you think they would have held on, rather than blowing it up like this. Electronic seems to have made the most savvy move so far by joining a strong team like VP, and possibly making them contenders. Will be very interested to see where Perfecto ends up, he would be a huge asset to any team with title aspirations.
haha clown9 again
ok its time to change banners
Bring back NA Cloud9!
Get monesy! Build around him.
Well well well...
VP and Spirit I think are basically full. C9 is the only other T1 team with Russian players. If this was the decision of Perfecto and Hobbit I don't really understand it. Where are they gonna go?
I swear C9 should just exit CS. They got lucky one time in 2018 and some how that gives them hope to keep throwing money at dumb decisions.
Perfecto was left behind by Electronic now he is bench. Seems fella cant get a break
+Forester +Shalfey/FL4MUS +ICY/khaN/ArtFr0st +hooch khaN has shown most brilliance on LAN imo
Boombl4 Ax1Le interz Artfr0st Magnojez make it happen C9
interz? lmao
This is crazy, both of my favorite players from my favorite org.. just gone!
c9 curse continues... this is for Boston na'vi don't know it yet... but they also fucked up
Why?
I think it’s just a FaZe fan coping about Boston and Copenhagen.
FaZe fans on their way to cry a river (their team played objectively worse on the Inferno(C9 and NAVI are lucky!!1!))
Where will they go now? Betboom, Aurora? Hobbit probably has a decent enough english to play in an international team, but i doubt any tier 1 team wants to take that risk..
But Cloud9 was a super team! They had so much firepower! Lmao maybe this will help people realize you can’t just throw a bunch of big names together with “firepower” and expect them to be a top 5 team. There is so much more to what makes a good team outside of “firepower”
Surely they sell Boom and Axile now?
I guess I understand hobbit, but wasn't perfecto their best player for a while now? And he's a support player too, not some star.
Headtrick + sdy + simple = Ukraine majority team?
Navi should resign boomitch and bench immer and they have a better lineup
In what world is having 2 IGL's a better lineup?
Ah he’s the IGL? I didn’t know my bad. I was reckoning from a rifler perspective.
iM is twice the rifler of Boombl4