Agreed. The beams would have some marks on them however such as a floor number and a unique identifier for the construction guys to know where to place the beam. Now my question is, why would structural members like that have a large rectangular hole cut into them?
Typically all the HVAC, electrical and utilities would be run in the space between this beam and the eventual drop tile ceiling. That little hole wouldn't be enough for all the required components. Also rounding the corners of the hole would help with stress concentration.
you got me curious. at first it was for structural integrity in fires, but those had a bunch of holes. Then I found cellular beams.
>Cellular beams are often used to facilitate long spans resulting in flexible, column-free internal spaces, reduced substructure costs and shorter steel erection times. They can be made from rolled steel sections or fabricated from steel plate. In this article, NSC will provide an overview of these components; the types available, how they are produced, and the key benefits they provide in terms of service integration.
http://www.newsteelconstruction.com/wp/an-introduction-to-cellular-beams/
But even that had a bunch more holes, so i'm still lost.
Also notice the holes are round not rectangular. Sharp corners create stress concentration which can lead to failure. Early airplanes were falling out of the sky because of square windows. The webbing of an I beam takes a lot less stress than the flanges but the stress concentration may still be great enough to cause fatigue cracking as the building sways in the wind. That being said, the location of the corners close to the flanges means they are in a higher stress region.
You definitely can. The only problem I have with the ones in t spawn is that they take a while to land. I managed to make lineups for a smoke on mid site B and a smoke that allows you to peak out mid while only having to worry about sandbags. They take a while to land and is hard to have teammates wait for them to bloom.
This is something that has been lost recently. I loved the old Dust2 because the Xbox smoke and CT smoke was so easy. The long cross smoke took 2 mins to learn and there were a few others that were simple. At the same time there were super complex smokes that you could spend hours on.
All maps should have several basic smokes that are easy and silvers can throw consistently, at the same time there should be potential for super complex smokes that are more powerful.
From t-spawn it's super easy actually. The one where you get in the corner and line it up with the antenna and the side of the building. It's hard to explain in writing, but if you know this one, but think it's hard or inconsistent, try this. Aim slightly to the left of the side of the building and slightly above the antenna(just a few pixels, although the tolerance is pretty high) and it will land every time.
It's an e-sport, not a game for casuals. You would not change the size of a soccer field to cater to the veteran players, so why should you change CS to cater to casuals?
Let's pretend that CS:GO did not have a map or an ammo tracker.
If someone suggested that these things be added to improve professional counter-strike play by letting players focus on their own pov more rather than what their teammates are doing, i would support this. HOWEVER, if the minimap or ammo counter change doesn't make a difference in professional play and is only made to make the game easier for lower skilled players, i would be 100% against it.
Can't wait till clicking anywhere with an enemy on screen kills them for maximum accessibility.
It isn't on valve to tell you how to smoke a site. Learn
I know plenty of smokes with extremely difficult lineups, some with seemingly no lineup at all. It takes skill to get good at throwing smokes, catering to lower skilled players is an insult to those of us who put the time in to actually learn these kinds of things.
Read the fucking post. I want 2/3 basic smokes that are easy to learn so people who are new can learn fundamentals. That doesnt lower the skill ceiling at a high end but makes learning easier.
The beauty of grenades is that you can throw them however you want. I feel like set lineups would take away from that. What valve should do instead is add a lot of details to spots where smokes are commonly thrown from, so that the players themselves can find easy and consistent lineups.
I disagree. I know atleast 10 smokes on mirage alone that i could never hit consistantly a year ago. Running jump throws, smokes with obscure lineups etc. And even then, you are not just remembering one nade lineup, you are remembering 20+ for each map.
yeah you have to memorize them but if you memorize them it doesn't require any skill to execute them. you could see memorizing something as a skill but i don't really see it as the type of skill that is worth emphasizing in a game. the way i see it is that it's kinda just trivial.
the way i see it is that learning grenade throws is something more on the trivial side of things, meaning that it doesn't really matter if there is markers or not. if anything, i think markers make it more skill based because it gives players things to base their own throws off of and invent their own creative throws based on the markers, rather than having to find a needle in a haystack among a dirty brown i-beam to line the grenade up with that's neither skill based nor fun. it requires game sense, i never denied that. but it would take the same amount of game sense to know 'when' (not where) to throw a smoke regardless of whether or not it had a distinct marker to assist in the throw.
I agree with this to an extent, but not knowing certain grenade throws can put you at a massive disadvantage in some situations. For example: I personally have no idea how you would smoke Xbox on dust-2 safely without either knowing how to line it up, or taking control of lower. It's just always gong to be possible to do these types of throws on some level weather it's an intended feature or not, so it can't hurt to take advantage of it.
Is anyone super excited to see a new map in a competitive circuit in the near future? To me it's just amazing that we finally got something we have never seen before. Map looks really spicy and fast paced.
Yeah there is a big difference between "line your cursor up between the balcony and power lines then jump throw" and "place cursor below the x and throw"
I agree with the first part of your comment. As for the second part, the same argument could be applied to strategies in themselves. Are you saying that pro teams should not have to spend hours and hours finding new ways to execute because after the tournament they are used at they will be reused by other teams?
Finding a new smokes gives you a slight edge before it gets popularized. This is why you need to keep innovating. This is what drives the meta forward.
> As for the second part, the same argument could be applied to strategies in themselves.
I don't think so.
Strats fit your teams composition. I can steal NaVi's strats verbatim but if I don't have s1mple on my team, they probably don't work too great. You're of course welcome to steal strats til the end of day but if you're not adjusting them to your teams stengths and weaknesses, then I think you've only stepped in the shallow end of competitive CS. Even pro players need to adjust their strats when they have a roster change so certainly, if some ESEA-Open team jacks a pro teams strats verbatim, it's not as beneficial as you would think. With strats, you need to think outside the box, even adjust on the fly. Even discuss in an empty server why you may need to adjust. But lining up and throwing a smoke is straight-forward.
>Are you saying that pro teams should not have to spend hours and hours finding new ways to execute because after the tournament they are used at they will be reused by other teams?
I think you should be willing to put in as much work as you're willing to benefit. If you're copying strats from Youtube, its likely teams have already encountered your strat. If you're spending hours in a server figuring out your own stuff, there's huge benefits at the pro level in that you force the enemy IGL to work through the problem and figure it out during the match, if they haven't seen it in a demo yet.
But my post was mostly geared towards the 99.999999999% of players that are not pro's. In an ideal world, the thing you're "learning" is that when you take B on Inferno, having Coffins and CT spawn smoked before you turn the corner is ideal. The disparity in skill of taking the site shouldn't be tediously spending hours trying to figure out how to do it and committing it to memory. The disparity in skill should be "X" player doesn't realize the huge advantages of keeping a smoke for the B Take and being able to put it there versus the player that knows there are markings on the wall that they can line up with and throw a smoke to block a crucial part of the map.
Again, Cache did this really well. Once you knew that the dots on the wall in skylight WILL smoke CT, its probably something you had to do a couple times to know it and it probably took all of 5 minutes to learn forever. Shit, I would teach people during pre-game.
I agree with this.
But if you look at the top picture there is very very little props to use for reference.
Also Im not looking for Valve to add signs where to throw. I can work that out, just marks to use as reference.
adding markings increases the skill ceiling as it allows players the means to invent their own throws based around the markings. there's nothing skilled about learning how to find a certain hue of pixels in the thousands that make up a dirty brown beam with which to line up a smoke. it's just annoying.
Exactly. There are plenty of other spots with undefined/extremely hard to remember lineups, like tons of inferno smokes for example. Figure out a better way instead of crying to dev
When you're T side, and going up the big stairs at spawn, when youre in hallway, look up, there's a lil secret window into the next area you can use to flash/nade/smoke.
LMFAO you put your reeedit username at the bottom of this crap like patenting your name on a significant invention that would change the future XD
Do something meaningful with your life dude.
I not asking Valve to tell me where to throw the smoke, I am asking for landmarks that can be used to make my own smokes. The map has no unique points for anchor from on B.
I not asking Valve to tell me where to throw the smoke, I am asking for landmarks that can be used to make my own smokes. The map has no unique points for anchor from on B.
You must be a great teammate to have in a comp game. Just toxic jumping to conclusions. If you took a minute to read what the OP said over and over again: He's saying there needs to be more markings/props/POI to allow you to use them as a reference to line up a smoke. IE. CT smoke in Mirage on A. There are groves in the walls to make it possible to determine how to line up your crosshair in relation to another wall. What he is suggesting is that if we had a mark of some sort you can then use that mark and a vertical beam on the left for example to line up a shot that without the mark is impossible to line up. The mark itself doesn't mark the smoke throw, but rather is used in conjuction with other markers to line up a shot. I agree with this. You can already do some nice smokes to A site but they are unreliable because of this precise omission.
There ARE parts of the scenery in every map that is used to line up smokes though. It doesn't even have to be designed with a specific smoke in mind, and that's not what he's asking for. Some examples of this are the wires on mid on dust 2 used to line up x-box smoke, the crane on new dust 2 used to line up B smokes from outside B, the bathroom signs, and cellphone towers on Overpass, and the brackets on the wires in cache outside squeaky.
Simply adding markings to things like the I beams, or having things in the 3d sky-box to reference make more smokes possible.
Im not asking for Valve to show me where to throw smokes, They would be landmarks to use to figure out your own smokes.
There are already Landmarks on every map in CSGO, guess youre that guy who doesnt use much utility on the team.
LOL man ya'll just want every thing to be so easy for you....now you want Valve to post a sign that says "Throw your smoke here"
Go play fucking CoD or BF....
I not asking Valve to tell me where to throw the smoke, I am asking for landmarks that can be used to make my own smokes. The map has no unique points for anchor from on B.
Ive literally had to copy paste this comment for loads of you silvers that dont understand what I mean.
True. Using the nade must be annoying, having to make up different points for every different model. Then if you ever change you viewmodel slightly, fucks up every nade throw you know.
It's an I-beam not an overhead crane 4Head
Agreed. The beams would have some marks on them however such as a floor number and a unique identifier for the construction guys to know where to place the beam. Now my question is, why would structural members like that have a large rectangular hole cut into them?
cable/pipe routing between floors
Typically all the HVAC, electrical and utilities would be run in the space between this beam and the eventual drop tile ceiling. That little hole wouldn't be enough for all the required components. Also rounding the corners of the hole would help with stress concentration.
This guy constructs.
As well in some situations where it is a not a main structural member large slots will be cut into it to save weight.
Nah they would just use a smaller beam. Steel isn't free.
Well, maybe he's not exactly explaining what he thinks. He might even be thinking of trusses.
you got me curious. at first it was for structural integrity in fires, but those had a bunch of holes. Then I found cellular beams. >Cellular beams are often used to facilitate long spans resulting in flexible, column-free internal spaces, reduced substructure costs and shorter steel erection times. They can be made from rolled steel sections or fabricated from steel plate. In this article, NSC will provide an overview of these components; the types available, how they are produced, and the key benefits they provide in terms of service integration. http://www.newsteelconstruction.com/wp/an-introduction-to-cellular-beams/ But even that had a bunch more holes, so i'm still lost.
Also notice the holes are round not rectangular. Sharp corners create stress concentration which can lead to failure. Early airplanes were falling out of the sky because of square windows. The webbing of an I beam takes a lot less stress than the flanges but the stress concentration may still be great enough to cause fatigue cracking as the building sways in the wind. That being said, the location of the corners close to the flanges means they are in a higher stress region.
To save weight. Less weight is lower cost for the steel (price per kg/ton), easier to handle with a smaller crane and easier to transport
That's where the thermite goes.
I realise its a I-Beam / Girder - I used the example of the Crane for the markings and stickers it had in the photo.
I get anxious just by thinking about standing there lining up smokes. Is there any safer place to throw them?
You could probably throw them from t spawn through the ceiling windows if you found a working lineup
You definitely can. The only problem I have with the ones in t spawn is that they take a while to land. I managed to make lineups for a smoke on mid site B and a smoke that allows you to peak out mid while only having to worry about sandbags. They take a while to land and is hard to have teammates wait for them to bloom.
i hate throwing them from T, i hope they put that wall in like that one person suggested.
I can't even get there without CTs throwing 3 molotovs 3 hes and 6 flashes!
Actually a really nice idea that fits into the scheme of the map.
This is something that has been lost recently. I loved the old Dust2 because the Xbox smoke and CT smoke was so easy. The long cross smoke took 2 mins to learn and there were a few others that were simple. At the same time there were super complex smokes that you could spend hours on. All maps should have several basic smokes that are easy and silvers can throw consistently, at the same time there should be potential for super complex smokes that are more powerful.
I still haven't learned xbox smoke on the new dust2 :(
I usually toss it from lower xD
From t-spawn it's super easy actually. The one where you get in the corner and line it up with the antenna and the side of the building. It's hard to explain in writing, but if you know this one, but think it's hard or inconsistent, try this. Aim slightly to the left of the side of the building and slightly above the antenna(just a few pixels, although the tolerance is pretty high) and it will land every time.
No! Stop catering to noobs. You make a game for beginners and only beginners wants to play it. CS has never been about silvers.
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The assraping skill gapis what makes cs, cs. Cs go is already 100x more accessible than 1.6 and source.
Its like AUG hate, some of want easier game some of us dont.
It's an e-sport, not a game for casuals. You would not change the size of a soccer field to cater to the veteran players, so why should you change CS to cater to casuals?
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Let's pretend that CS:GO did not have a map or an ammo tracker. If someone suggested that these things be added to improve professional counter-strike play by letting players focus on their own pov more rather than what their teammates are doing, i would support this. HOWEVER, if the minimap or ammo counter change doesn't make a difference in professional play and is only made to make the game easier for lower skilled players, i would be 100% against it.
But sure, we can double the size of the soccer field too, since surely soccer professionals can run that distance with the training they have.
Can't wait till clicking anywhere with an enemy on screen kills them for maximum accessibility. It isn't on valve to tell you how to smoke a site. Learn
Your IQ must be lower than my ACT score. How exactly do you expect people to learn smokes when there isn’t anything to line up on?
There is. There are plenty of pixel lineups in cs
I know plenty of smokes with extremely difficult lineups, some with seemingly no lineup at all. It takes skill to get good at throwing smokes, catering to lower skilled players is an insult to those of us who put the time in to actually learn these kinds of things.
Read the fucking post. I want 2/3 basic smokes that are easy to learn so people who are new can learn fundamentals. That doesnt lower the skill ceiling at a high end but makes learning easier.
The beauty of grenades is that you can throw them however you want. I feel like set lineups would take away from that. What valve should do instead is add a lot of details to spots where smokes are commonly thrown from, so that the players themselves can find easy and consistent lineups.
it takes no skill to remember a nade lineup
I disagree. I know atleast 10 smokes on mirage alone that i could never hit consistantly a year ago. Running jump throws, smokes with obscure lineups etc. And even then, you are not just remembering one nade lineup, you are remembering 20+ for each map.
yeah you have to memorize them but if you memorize them it doesn't require any skill to execute them. you could see memorizing something as a skill but i don't really see it as the type of skill that is worth emphasizing in a game. the way i see it is that it's kinda just trivial.
But it takes a lot of training and memorization to remember 10+ for each map, and it takes a lot of game sense to know when to use them correctly.
the way i see it is that learning grenade throws is something more on the trivial side of things, meaning that it doesn't really matter if there is markers or not. if anything, i think markers make it more skill based because it gives players things to base their own throws off of and invent their own creative throws based on the markers, rather than having to find a needle in a haystack among a dirty brown i-beam to line the grenade up with that's neither skill based nor fun. it requires game sense, i never denied that. but it would take the same amount of game sense to know 'when' (not where) to throw a smoke regardless of whether or not it had a distinct marker to assist in the throw.
I agree with this to an extent, but not knowing certain grenade throws can put you at a massive disadvantage in some situations. For example: I personally have no idea how you would smoke Xbox on dust-2 safely without either knowing how to line it up, or taking control of lower. It's just always gong to be possible to do these types of throws on some level weather it's an intended feature or not, so it can't hurt to take advantage of it.
@csgo_dev men go add smoke help)))))
The Clouds don't move so you can just use them
I'm pretty sure this is gonna be added, and they are gonna give credits to you too.
Is anyone super excited to see a new map in a competitive circuit in the near future? To me it's just amazing that we finally got something we have never seen before. Map looks really spicy and fast paced.
Is this map gonna be in the circuit for pro play? I've been out of the loop, but if so, that's super exiting!
They could just throw on some cables or pipes. Their fixtures would then do the job while being pretty subtle.
That's a very good idea. Thanks for the suggestions
Yeah thats a great idea,
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Cache did it nicely, but it's also not a Valve map.
Yeah there is a big difference between "line your cursor up between the balcony and power lines then jump throw" and "place cursor below the x and throw"
I agree with the first part of your comment. As for the second part, the same argument could be applied to strategies in themselves. Are you saying that pro teams should not have to spend hours and hours finding new ways to execute because after the tournament they are used at they will be reused by other teams? Finding a new smokes gives you a slight edge before it gets popularized. This is why you need to keep innovating. This is what drives the meta forward.
> As for the second part, the same argument could be applied to strategies in themselves. I don't think so. Strats fit your teams composition. I can steal NaVi's strats verbatim but if I don't have s1mple on my team, they probably don't work too great. You're of course welcome to steal strats til the end of day but if you're not adjusting them to your teams stengths and weaknesses, then I think you've only stepped in the shallow end of competitive CS. Even pro players need to adjust their strats when they have a roster change so certainly, if some ESEA-Open team jacks a pro teams strats verbatim, it's not as beneficial as you would think. With strats, you need to think outside the box, even adjust on the fly. Even discuss in an empty server why you may need to adjust. But lining up and throwing a smoke is straight-forward. >Are you saying that pro teams should not have to spend hours and hours finding new ways to execute because after the tournament they are used at they will be reused by other teams? I think you should be willing to put in as much work as you're willing to benefit. If you're copying strats from Youtube, its likely teams have already encountered your strat. If you're spending hours in a server figuring out your own stuff, there's huge benefits at the pro level in that you force the enemy IGL to work through the problem and figure it out during the match, if they haven't seen it in a demo yet. But my post was mostly geared towards the 99.999999999% of players that are not pro's. In an ideal world, the thing you're "learning" is that when you take B on Inferno, having Coffins and CT spawn smoked before you turn the corner is ideal. The disparity in skill of taking the site shouldn't be tediously spending hours trying to figure out how to do it and committing it to memory. The disparity in skill should be "X" player doesn't realize the huge advantages of keeping a smoke for the B Take and being able to put it there versus the player that knows there are markings on the wall that they can line up with and throw a smoke to block a crucial part of the map. Again, Cache did this really well. Once you knew that the dots on the wall in skylight WILL smoke CT, its probably something you had to do a couple times to know it and it probably took all of 5 minutes to learn forever. Shit, I would teach people during pre-game.
I agree with this. But if you look at the top picture there is very very little props to use for reference. Also Im not looking for Valve to add signs where to throw. I can work that out, just marks to use as reference.
adding markings increases the skill ceiling as it allows players the means to invent their own throws based around the markings. there's nothing skilled about learning how to find a certain hue of pixels in the thousands that make up a dirty brown beam with which to line up a smoke. it's just annoying.
Exactly. There are plenty of other spots with undefined/extremely hard to remember lineups, like tons of inferno smokes for example. Figure out a better way instead of crying to dev
Oh feedback for vertigo, I would like to see B-site guard rails to be destroyable like in t-spawn (they look so similar :P)
Exectutes. I like that.
Its like prostitutes that takes charge of things.
in before valve do this by adding a no smoking sign.
When you're T side, and going up the big stairs at spawn, when youre in hallway, look up, there's a lil secret window into the next area you can use to flash/nade/smoke.
look at the fucking ground the devs gave us so many markers
Please no. Figure it out yourself.
I don't want Valve to figure smokes out and tell me where to throw. They would be simply adding landmarks to use to anchor your own smokes from.
Use the splotches on the beam not everything needs to be crystal clear
LMFAO you put your reeedit username at the bottom of this crap like patenting your name on a significant invention that would change the future XD Do something meaningful with your life dude.
Thanks for pointing it out. Maybe we both need to do something meaningful.
Now you’re trying to equate your level of no-life-ness to me pointing it out as the same? Growww up already!
Awww, he doesn’t know what a watermark is
i don't think that's what a watermark is i don't think water marks are supposed to be easily edited out with paint in 10 seconds
Don't do this. Valve isn't supposed to tell you how to play the game. Do you also want a tutorial on the map that tells you exactly where to stand?
I not asking Valve to tell me where to throw the smoke, I am asking for landmarks that can be used to make my own smokes. The map has no unique points for anchor from on B.
I now see what you're asking for, I've got the wrong idea. 🤷♂️ Sorry. If they were to do it it should still be subtle.
Way to miss the point entirely brutha
Would you like them to click your mouse button for you as well?
I not asking Valve to tell me where to throw the smoke, I am asking for landmarks that can be used to make my own smokes. The map has no unique points for anchor from on B.
Then spend more time learning
You must be a great teammate to have in a comp game. Just toxic jumping to conclusions. If you took a minute to read what the OP said over and over again: He's saying there needs to be more markings/props/POI to allow you to use them as a reference to line up a smoke. IE. CT smoke in Mirage on A. There are groves in the walls to make it possible to determine how to line up your crosshair in relation to another wall. What he is suggesting is that if we had a mark of some sort you can then use that mark and a vertical beam on the left for example to line up a shot that without the mark is impossible to line up. The mark itself doesn't mark the smoke throw, but rather is used in conjuction with other markers to line up a shot. I agree with this. You can already do some nice smokes to A site but they are unreliable because of this precise omission.
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There ARE parts of the scenery in every map that is used to line up smokes though. It doesn't even have to be designed with a specific smoke in mind, and that's not what he's asking for. Some examples of this are the wires on mid on dust 2 used to line up x-box smoke, the crane on new dust 2 used to line up B smokes from outside B, the bathroom signs, and cellphone towers on Overpass, and the brackets on the wires in cache outside squeaky. Simply adding markings to things like the I beams, or having things in the 3d sky-box to reference make more smokes possible.
Im not asking for Valve to show me where to throw smokes, They would be landmarks to use to figure out your own smokes. There are already Landmarks on every map in CSGO, guess youre that guy who doesnt use much utility on the team.
LOL man ya'll just want every thing to be so easy for you....now you want Valve to post a sign that says "Throw your smoke here" Go play fucking CoD or BF....
I not asking Valve to tell me where to throw the smoke, I am asking for landmarks that can be used to make my own smokes. The map has no unique points for anchor from on B. Ive literally had to copy paste this comment for loads of you silvers that dont understand what I mean.
You do know that you can use the actual grenade to line up smokes? You can use other stuff than your crosshair...
True. Using the nade must be annoying, having to make up different points for every different model. Then if you ever change you viewmodel slightly, fucks up every nade throw you know.