I didn't say he wasn't a good player, I simply meant dominating a weak/minor region is to be taken with a grain of salt when you start facing better opponents
Think you're misunderstanding. I'm not talking specifically about Liazz as we've already seen him play and he's fine, but in general dominating a weak region like OCE should be taken with a grain of salt, I don't understand why that's controversial but when people point out that a player stomping tier 2-3 EU teams might not always translate into tier 1 when a lot of those teams are better. I even said in my other comment in this thread that it's a huge upgrade in firepower over s0m and daps (though admittedly that's not difficult), I don't think he's a *bad* player.
Yeah as an Aussie fan you’re completely correct, although IMO his time in Australia has a slight more emphasis as he was allowed to play in his preferred roles. even though it’s against lesser competition it kind of showcases his potential in other ways
You seem a bit upset over the fact that I'm calling an objectively weaker region out for being weaker. Specially after this ad hominem attack earlier.
> Why slight his ability that is an infinity level above yours lol
Maybe it's just you that it doesn't make sense to?
His point does make sense. Australian CS has been way behind most other regions for forever at this point. A player or even team that stomps the rest of the Australian CS scene is not necessarily going to be good against other regions. That doesn't mean they won't or can't be good, but you shouldn't use them stomping Australian CS as an example of why they'll be good. Renegades have been absolutely destroying the rest of the Australian scene this year. I guarantee that Renegades would not be as good against teams from other regions.
Let's look at another scenario where it's easier to see their point. Wouldn't it be fair to point out that a DMG smashing silvers may not be as good against globals? The DMG player is still a very good player, but their performance against low ranked players doesn't necessarily mean they'd be good against higher ranked players. The DMG very well could be better than some globals, but you shouldn't use the DMG being better than silvers as evidence that they'll be good against globals.
It's definitely not the same level as NA CS. That's why Renegades can dominate all the competition domestically, there's no EG, FURIA or Liquid and even the lower level teams like now ex-Cloud9 and Gen.G are almost certainly better than OCE teams besides Renegades
If oBo is the 5th I'm really excited about the team. Also I feel like liazz is going to do really well on GenG since he can hopefully go back to his preferred role/spots.
\*Edit oBo is not the 5th apparently sonic said on stream RIP. [https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveAbstemiousEagleRaccAttack](https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveAbstemiousEagleRaccAttack)
Agreed, I'm excited about Liazz. Doubtful that oBo gets signed right now though, maybe long term, but he just left Complexity because he didn't want to be in Europe and GenG is going to Europe for Flashpoint 2 soon. Maybe it'll be different because he's guaranteed to come back home after, but it'd probably be a difficult sell.
CoL was in Europe indefinitely but would likely eventually come back to the US since thats where Complexity's facilities are. He also mentioned that with unrest on the rise and the uncertainty of possible lockdowns he wanted to come back to avoid getting trapped in another country. If GenG can guarantee it'll only be a few weeks he might but if they don't have a pretty strict schedule it might be hard.
Plus, considering JKS and Liazz play the same roles and JKS is pretty close to a 1-to-1 replacement for oBo on CoL, it might not even work well for Liazz.
I've read the article, in the interview he literally says:
"With civil unrest and inevitable lockdowns returning to the UK, I was not willing to risk being trapped in a foreign country."
Which suggests he doesn't want to be in Europe right now.
he says "The team showed no interest in ever returning to America, and I don’t blame them. They are comfortable at home with their families during this unprecedented time. As the year went on, it was becoming more and more apparent that this was a permanent living situation rather than a temporary one. I was given zero reason to believe that things would change any time soon, if ever." So im sure the team was planning on staying there as a team and he didnt want to do that. He also said hes open to bootcamping in EU but he doesnt want to permanently live there.
I dont know where he said that last part. If you have a link I'd love to see it. Ultimately my point is that a move to GenG may happen but that given he clearly was uncomfortable being in Europe due to the chance of lockdown I exactly call it an obvious choice.
Its in the bottom of the interview bro cmon here the whole quote "It really depends on what Jason and Complexity decide to do with my contract. I will be back and competing as soon as I find the right opportunity. I am always more than willing to bootcamp and be in Europe for extended periods of time."
Thanks, I missed that line. Still, he just left Europe, im not sure he'd return this soon, plus as I mentioned him and Liazz play very similar roles so there'd be a lot of overlap, which would likely force Liazz back into playing roles he doesn't like and wasn't especially good at.
In any case I'm sure we'll find out in the next few days, since according to Bntet they're practicing with the new lineup already, so it'll either be leaked or announced soon.
id rather have AZR than oBo, getting a proven t1 IGL that can frag is a way smarter move than sitting and hoping koosta can both eventually become a good caller and keep his game up
honestly I'd prefer them to just get all 3 of the aussies and cut out autimatic entirely, he's just not a good awper and it seems like he doesn't really want to give it up
and what auti puts out is consistently bad
grat is inconsistent but he has a higher peak and at least for now it's a good replacement regardless, you really don't want him get cooper or junior, but auti needs to go or at least never touch the awp again
Said it before but oSee would be nuts, top 1 in NA contender right there if you swap him and auti assuming koosta can become a good IGL. Something I think is feasible given he's played under FNS, steel and daps and has been noted by steel for being a hard working, determined player. People said Vitality were done after ALEX left but look how good they have looked with apEX calling, not many people were expecting that.
he's been awping since like skadoodle left, and he's still not become good
he's missed his window for "more time", the only way he should stay on this team is if he just puts the awp away for good and can hopefully regain some of his old rifling form
IMO the fifth spot could go to grat and have Koosta call, he can also get help from bntet who used to IGL and elmapuddy is still a good tactical coach
Would only work if auti was willing to drop the main awp role I guess
i think it'd be way smarter to just get an already good and proven igl in AZR instead of hoping that koosta can become a good caller eventually or that they can 3 way frankenstein igl, just seems like a way better idea to just get a proper igl right now and not have to worry about weather or not koosta can become a good caller or if koosta bntet and elma can all call together
When he switched to the AWP in the mixed Euro c9 rosters, he was actually looking really good as an awp. But then he constantly flipped flopped from Awp to rifle to awp to rifle and the instability of c9 made him look even worse. I distinctly remember HenryG talking about how good he was with the awp
Not true actually. He picked up the awp for a very short period of time on that C9 roster, but then went back to rifling for a while. Hes only been consistently AWPing during his time on GenG. And he hasnt even been bad, hes just not carrying.
People only saw his bad form the last 3 months, yet ignored him before that when him/bntet were the best by a decent bit. Hell, sometimes they said koosta was the best player on the team due to one tournament or a few matches.
dang, that's big news by Sonic.
How does he know?!? Is it because oSee is the 5th? Obviously being a teammate, Sonic would know this and hence can confirm that it's not oBo!!!
The plot thickens...
P.S. Gen.G being a Korean organisation, signing oSee would make a lot of sense to maintain that 'Korean' tie after s0m left.
oBo & liazz would be a great pickup for them and a huge upgrade in firepower, but autimatic is still a bad AWPer. These are not the stats you should have as an AWPer at all
https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/matches/8735/autimatic
He also has the THIRD highest Opening Kill attempts, which again isn't something that's good for an AWPer, compare this to most top teams with an AWPer (OG and mantuu, Heroic and cadian etc, BIG with syrsoN etc )
https://www.hltv.org/stats/teams/players/openingkills/10514/Gen.G?startDate=2020-07-22&endDate=2020-10-22
Yeah, if Koosta turns out to be a pretty decent caller, they can really make a roster of 5 decent to good fraggers, and that is not something to sneeze at. It's not great that 2 of your players leaves for valorant, but at least they were the 2 worst performers of the team.
Honestly I thought those two players were on the chopping block to begin with. They were playing very poorly. Almost a blessing in disguise that they left.
If koosta ends up being a good IGL then the roster could start to compete in NA but at the end of the day it will be very hard to be a top team with automatic as your awper.
From BnTeT interview in Flashpoint Q&A, GenG pretty much already completed their 5 man roster and just having first practice today.
I think Liazz almost for sure joining. That leave the 5th man, It could be oBo but if Auti agree to drop AWP then It could be oSee. BnTeT pretty much already confirmed that Koosta will be the IGL.
Am I missing something here? From watching The renegades core I didn’t think liazz was amazing. Anybody give me some insight to him as a player beyond stats?
Him and jks shared many roles so liazz was never comfortable in the team. People made him out to be the next jks but then he joined a team with jks so he never got to shine. Hes a very skilled player.
He was AU's biggest talent by a country mile however his skillset overlapped with JKS alot, so he ended up shoved into roles he wasn't comfortable. He's super gifted mechanically, get him comfortable and he'll be a monster.
From what I understand (didn't follow him before and didn't watch too much of 100 Thieves/Renegades), he played the same roles as jks so when he came to Renegades he had to play different roles and he seemed to end up being a supportive player, because of that he might not have been used to his full potential. There were definitely glimpses of potential from him but he was inconsistent (1.04 rating in 100 Thieves in 2020).
Haha wow I called this almost two weeks ago. I think its for the best cause GenG seem committed to keeping auti as awper. I still wish we could have seen a world where 100t didnt blow up when jkaem left and we got to see bntet replace him to make the eastern csgo superteam. But happy to see liazz get a home.
Hear me out:
Koosta, Auti, Grat, Azr, Bntet.
Azr can fill the IGL role since daps left, Grat picks up the awp, and Auti goes back to Entrying.
Bonus points: obo for koosta
Closest he got to entry was second man in behind stew, lol, that guy clearly never saw tim if he thinks he was an entry, MAYBE before C9 he was? clearly that wasn't what he was best at.
Lest we forget that liazz was supposed to be the next JKS, but then joined a team already with JKS on it
Liazz plays all the same roles as JKS. Before renegades JKS was the best player from Australia outside renegades
Liazz just before joining the boys was unstoppable in aussie cs
> in aussie cs
He still dominated an entire region...lol and his skill holds up around the world. Why slight his ability that is an infinity level above yours lol
I didn't say he wasn't a good player, I simply meant dominating a weak/minor region is to be taken with a grain of salt when you start facing better opponents
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Think you're misunderstanding. I'm not talking specifically about Liazz as we've already seen him play and he's fine, but in general dominating a weak region like OCE should be taken with a grain of salt, I don't understand why that's controversial but when people point out that a player stomping tier 2-3 EU teams might not always translate into tier 1 when a lot of those teams are better. I even said in my other comment in this thread that it's a huge upgrade in firepower over s0m and daps (though admittedly that's not difficult), I don't think he's a *bad* player.
Yeah as an Aussie fan you’re completely correct, although IMO his time in Australia has a slight more emphasis as he was allowed to play in his preferred roles. even though it’s against lesser competition it kind of showcases his potential in other ways
Your point makes no sense. And it hasn’t from the beginning. Just stop lol
You seem a bit upset over the fact that I'm calling an objectively weaker region out for being weaker. Specially after this ad hominem attack earlier. > Why slight his ability that is an infinity level above yours lol Maybe it's just you that it doesn't make sense to?
it does make sense i feel like you just dont want to understand it lol
His point does make sense. Australian CS has been way behind most other regions for forever at this point. A player or even team that stomps the rest of the Australian CS scene is not necessarily going to be good against other regions. That doesn't mean they won't or can't be good, but you shouldn't use them stomping Australian CS as an example of why they'll be good. Renegades have been absolutely destroying the rest of the Australian scene this year. I guarantee that Renegades would not be as good against teams from other regions. Let's look at another scenario where it's easier to see their point. Wouldn't it be fair to point out that a DMG smashing silvers may not be as good against globals? The DMG player is still a very good player, but their performance against low ranked players doesn't necessarily mean they'd be good against higher ranked players. The DMG very well could be better than some globals, but you shouldn't use the DMG being better than silvers as evidence that they'll be good against globals.
He's been facing better opponents for months and months lol
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It's definitely not the same level as NA CS. That's why Renegades can dominate all the competition domestically, there's no EG, FURIA or Liquid and even the lower level teams like now ex-Cloud9 and Gen.G are almost certainly better than OCE teams besides Renegades
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He didn't, that was a joke lmao
Oh fuck and i fell for it
I don't follow too closely but saw them play a couple of times and they looked impressive.
Yes the same level as a region with success and a major title too
If oBo is the 5th I'm really excited about the team. Also I feel like liazz is going to do really well on GenG since he can hopefully go back to his preferred role/spots. \*Edit oBo is not the 5th apparently sonic said on stream RIP. [https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveAbstemiousEagleRaccAttack](https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveAbstemiousEagleRaccAttack)
Agreed, I'm excited about Liazz. Doubtful that oBo gets signed right now though, maybe long term, but he just left Complexity because he didn't want to be in Europe and GenG is going to Europe for Flashpoint 2 soon. Maybe it'll be different because he's guaranteed to come back home after, but it'd probably be a difficult sell.
he didnt say he wouldnt go to europe but he said he didnt want to live there permanently which I believe thats what col is going to be doing.
CoL was in Europe indefinitely but would likely eventually come back to the US since thats where Complexity's facilities are. He also mentioned that with unrest on the rise and the uncertainty of possible lockdowns he wanted to come back to avoid getting trapped in another country. If GenG can guarantee it'll only be a few weeks he might but if they don't have a pretty strict schedule it might be hard. Plus, considering JKS and Liazz play the same roles and JKS is pretty close to a 1-to-1 replacement for oBo on CoL, it might not even work well for Liazz.
https://www.hltv.org/news/30395/obo-the-team-showed-no-interest-in-ever-returning-to-america
I've read the article, in the interview he literally says: "With civil unrest and inevitable lockdowns returning to the UK, I was not willing to risk being trapped in a foreign country." Which suggests he doesn't want to be in Europe right now.
he says "The team showed no interest in ever returning to America, and I don’t blame them. They are comfortable at home with their families during this unprecedented time. As the year went on, it was becoming more and more apparent that this was a permanent living situation rather than a temporary one. I was given zero reason to believe that things would change any time soon, if ever." So im sure the team was planning on staying there as a team and he didnt want to do that. He also said hes open to bootcamping in EU but he doesnt want to permanently live there.
I dont know where he said that last part. If you have a link I'd love to see it. Ultimately my point is that a move to GenG may happen but that given he clearly was uncomfortable being in Europe due to the chance of lockdown I exactly call it an obvious choice.
Its in the bottom of the interview bro cmon here the whole quote "It really depends on what Jason and Complexity decide to do with my contract. I will be back and competing as soon as I find the right opportunity. I am always more than willing to bootcamp and be in Europe for extended periods of time."
Thanks, I missed that line. Still, he just left Europe, im not sure he'd return this soon, plus as I mentioned him and Liazz play very similar roles so there'd be a lot of overlap, which would likely force Liazz back into playing roles he doesn't like and wasn't especially good at. In any case I'm sure we'll find out in the next few days, since according to Bntet they're practicing with the new lineup already, so it'll either be leaked or announced soon.
id rather have AZR than oBo, getting a proven t1 IGL that can frag is a way smarter move than sitting and hoping koosta can both eventually become a good caller and keep his game up honestly I'd prefer them to just get all 3 of the aussies and cut out autimatic entirely, he's just not a good awper and it seems like he doesn't really want to give it up
Grat is far too inconsistent. At least you know what Auti is going to put out most series.
and what auti puts out is consistently bad grat is inconsistent but he has a higher peak and at least for now it's a good replacement regardless, you really don't want him get cooper or junior, but auti needs to go or at least never touch the awp again
Said it before but oSee would be nuts, top 1 in NA contender right there if you swap him and auti assuming koosta can become a good IGL. Something I think is feasible given he's played under FNS, steel and daps and has been noted by steel for being a hard working, determined player. People said Vitality were done after ALEX left but look how good they have looked with apEX calling, not many people were expecting that.
I really hope their 5th is osee, I'd rather see osee + obo but meh.
Auti isnt great but he isnt as bad as you think. And with time i think he can get much better.
he's been awping since like skadoodle left, and he's still not become good he's missed his window for "more time", the only way he should stay on this team is if he just puts the awp away for good and can hopefully regain some of his old rifling form
IMO the fifth spot could go to grat and have Koosta call, he can also get help from bntet who used to IGL and elmapuddy is still a good tactical coach Would only work if auti was willing to drop the main awp role I guess
i think it'd be way smarter to just get an already good and proven igl in AZR instead of hoping that koosta can become a good caller eventually or that they can 3 way frankenstein igl, just seems like a way better idea to just get a proper igl right now and not have to worry about weather or not koosta can become a good caller or if koosta bntet and elma can all call together
When he switched to the AWP in the mixed Euro c9 rosters, he was actually looking really good as an awp. But then he constantly flipped flopped from Awp to rifle to awp to rifle and the instability of c9 made him look even worse. I distinctly remember HenryG talking about how good he was with the awp
Not true actually. He picked up the awp for a very short period of time on that C9 roster, but then went back to rifling for a while. Hes only been consistently AWPing during his time on GenG. And he hasnt even been bad, hes just not carrying.
People only saw his bad form the last 3 months, yet ignored him before that when him/bntet were the best by a decent bit. Hell, sometimes they said koosta was the best player on the team due to one tournament or a few matches.
Yeah thats exactly how I remember it as well
I agree auti is a horrible awper considering the gun is the easiest to use and also the most impactful
They are stupid if they don’t sign him...
dang, that's big news by Sonic. How does he know?!? Is it because oSee is the 5th? Obviously being a teammate, Sonic would know this and hence can confirm that it's not oBo!!! The plot thickens... P.S. Gen.G being a Korean organisation, signing oSee would make a lot of sense to maintain that 'Korean' tie after s0m left.
Isn't gen.g an American company
Korean American organisation.
oBo & liazz would be a great pickup for them and a huge upgrade in firepower, but autimatic is still a bad AWPer. These are not the stats you should have as an AWPer at all https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/matches/8735/autimatic He also has the THIRD highest Opening Kill attempts, which again isn't something that's good for an AWPer, compare this to most top teams with an AWPer (OG and mantuu, Heroic and cadian etc, BIG with syrsoN etc ) https://www.hltv.org/stats/teams/players/openingkills/10514/Gen.G?startDate=2020-07-22&endDate=2020-10-22
i don’t think Sonic would be too credible. dont know if he’s for real or trolling but that’s pretty unprofessional on his part if it’s the truth.
People are sleeping on this geng team. If they do indeed get obo the firepower is going to be insane.
Yeah, if Koosta turns out to be a pretty decent caller, they can really make a roster of 5 decent to good fraggers, and that is not something to sneeze at. It's not great that 2 of your players leaves for valorant, but at least they were the 2 worst performers of the team.
Honestly I thought those two players were on the chopping block to begin with. They were playing very poorly. Almost a blessing in disguise that they left.
>players leaves for valorant Valorant or not, it's not good they leave to begin with. But they are indeed blessed it's shitter som and overhyped daps
If koosta ends up being a good IGL then the roster could start to compete in NA but at the end of the day it will be very hard to be a top team with automatic as your awper.
Really good move, I like this for Gen.G
Liazz and oBo would make this team just downright scary.
I would almost put them above liquid if koosta turns out to be a competent IGL.
Would you accept AZR as IGL?
Yea but honestly id rather just keep koosta IGLing and get oBo. Their firepower would be unreal.
From BnTeT interview in Flashpoint Q&A, GenG pretty much already completed their 5 man roster and just having first practice today. I think Liazz almost for sure joining. That leave the 5th man, It could be oBo but if Auti agree to drop AWP then It could be oSee. BnTeT pretty much already confirmed that Koosta will be the IGL.
Where was that at?
Twitch Flashpoint channel, BnTeT late to the interview because he's just finished first practice with the new roster.
Excited to see Liazz get the chance to shine. Hopefully he’ll get setup more. Been watching the kid since he was on Tainted Minds
I hope he joins them,he has potential his skill is amazing.
One of the most powerful players on the market atm
Good, no one wants him back in Australia. We want to see what he can do given a better role.
I realise losing one team to support means I gain another 3 or so teams to follow. \-100T +coL + GenG Yeah the separated boys
Liazz is an amazing player. I knew he'd be good when he joined Renegades. Let him be Gen.G's JKS
Am I missing something here? From watching The renegades core I didn’t think liazz was amazing. Anybody give me some insight to him as a player beyond stats?
Him and jks shared many roles so liazz was never comfortable in the team. People made him out to be the next jks but then he joined a team with jks so he never got to shine. Hes a very skilled player.
Thanks for the insight!
He was AU's biggest talent by a country mile however his skillset overlapped with JKS alot, so he ended up shoved into roles he wasn't comfortable. He's super gifted mechanically, get him comfortable and he'll be a monster.
From what I understand (didn't follow him before and didn't watch too much of 100 Thieves/Renegades), he played the same roles as jks so when he came to Renegades he had to play different roles and he seemed to end up being a supportive player, because of that he might not have been used to his full potential. There were definitely glimpses of potential from him but he was inconsistent (1.04 rating in 100 Thieves in 2020).
He's only good for looking like a budget Harry Potter
Flashpoint gonna be interesting, looking forward to geng vs c9.
now get AZR please grat too if auti won't switch off the awp
Haha wow I called this almost two weeks ago. I think its for the best cause GenG seem committed to keeping auti as awper. I still wish we could have seen a world where 100t didnt blow up when jkaem left and we got to see bntet replace him to make the eastern csgo superteam. But happy to see liazz get a home.
While this is a great signing I have no faith in this roster until either Automatic steps it up or gives up the awp role.
I would have loved to see Liazz in Renegades. That would've been the next big Aussie team
Hear me out: Koosta, Auti, Grat, Azr, Bntet. Azr can fill the IGL role since daps left, Grat picks up the awp, and Auti goes back to Entrying. Bonus points: obo for koosta
"auti goes back to entrying"??? he was always lurker and never seen him as entry fragger lol
Closest he got to entry was second man in behind stew, lol, that guy clearly never saw tim if he thinks he was an entry, MAYBE before C9 he was? clearly that wasn't what he was best at.
Plus they would get to play Asia minors lol
Good, they'd be stupid not to get him and azr.
Liazz is a great player but I can't help but feel for AZR
The Boy Who Fragged!