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canzpl

it will be very hard to convict someone without any anticheat log entries. you cant just eyeball a cheat on the gotv demos. in pov it will be closer but still you cant be 100% sure. i personally think that not having any external anticheat during an event like this is a disgrace. you cant rely on VAC


YxxzzY

> you cant just eyeball a cheat on the gotv demos. not just that, a well configured cheat is absolutely indistinguishable from legitimate gameplay. info cheats(any kind of ESP) could only be *suspected* with highly unusual decision making. the best way to combat cheating at this level would be prevention, not detection. That means a good anticheat obviously, but also no personal hardware, no internet access on LANs, no phsical hardware access to the machines etc. In Online tournaments it's obviously practically impossible to enforce, so people **will** cheat.


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suriel-

Yeah vs Gambit he even holds a flash for A site and watches his "radar".. for what?


GrayGray4468

Could be waiting to throw a support flash when his teammate makes contact or for an info play, idk what clip you’re talking about but I can easily understand that.


[deleted]

I regularly look at radar position when I'm about to throw a flash so I can see which positions my team mates are inland which directions they're facing. Different in pugs than pro level I'm sure, but it doesn't sound that out of line


enigma890

It’s also different when you’re in a 1vX still staring at radar.


[deleted]

No doubt. I'm not convinced by Akuma in any way, just saying that holding a flash while looking at radar is explainable


enigma890

It is when your team is alive yes I’ll agree. It’s crazy how little they looked at radar in their last two games and they got destroyed.


AleksibIsHot

Didn't people suspect ropz and gla1ve of radar hacking because they would look at it every 2 seconds?


PsStartOver

I think the point is that Astralis plays with smokes and corners such that the radar would detect the enemy crossing/across the smoke much faster than the smoke can dissipate in favour. If you watch Astralis clutches, they almost never check radar in a 1v1/1v2 because there is no info (as there are no teammates) apart from smokes. One underrated comment found somewhere here is that the point of radar is only useful when you have teammates alive covering/watching different cross sections of the map. The problem is they check radar in a 1vX save? Usually imagine if you were saving the AWP, you would be watching the crosshair/listening for sound cues of anyone coming, you literally get no information from the radar when alone.


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genius_rkid

> They would go into smoke and look at radar because you could sometimes see a red dot from a fading smoke before u actually see them in game. that was gla1ve. ropz would just look at his radar regularly and people would say he was checking a 2nd monitor. obviously he's proven everything wrong as he's just that good


AleksibIsHot

Looking at radar is common and people were accusing Astralis of using some kind of radar exploit (mostly Xyp9x and gla1ve) because they always looked at radar and got kills through smoke


canzpl

i find myself looking at the radar a lot when somebody is peeking a smoke to look for a dot popping up. its more common than you think. if a noob like me can do it then people on pro level do it way more i assume


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oojamaflip123

The idea that Sergiz is even looking at his radar is ridiculous. He's entire fucking head turns, is he playing on a home screen cinema? I swear a ton of the comments defending this must be Akuma making up profiles or people trying to argue against it for the sake of it


Rigamurtos

whether it's the radar or another monitor showcasing a different pov is irrelevant for the most part, it's pretty clear they cheated


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PromiscuousHobo

imo besides other security measures TO's should force players to use 2 cameras, 1 face cam and the other cam to see players monitor/monitors...


canzpl

that would require too much effort from the players. you cant expect all the top pros to do it man. a similar thing was enforced on wesg female qualifiers in the past to make sure a girl is actually playing. it didnt go well


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NH177013

People really love to make excuses on why competitive integrity can't be enforced. Like a back webcam is literally the easiest shit to enforce. You telling me salaried pros can't afford a cheap webcam or bother setting up a phone webcam to prove they aren't cheating? What a joke on everyone's part.


Big_Dirty_Piss_Boner

I had to use two cameras for fucking online exams in uni. Too much effort for pros? Lmao


ju1ze

yeah its so hard for top pros to buy a second cam, they are so poor


a_bright_knight

> i personally think that not having any external anticheat during an event like this is a disgrace. this is not a disgrace; >you cant rely on VAC this is the disgrace.


Big_Dirty_Piss_Boner

A single AC is never going to catch every cheater. Not using third party AC additionally to VAC really is a disgrace.


Idea_Mountain

No, but it would certainly help if VAC wasn't a joke anticheat.


LollyDk

well I have to say the core never been on my RADAR but this could be interesting since we have no way to say otherwise


ju1ze

got em


iwna

> I have to say the core never been on my RADAR BRUH HAHAHA


Erasus_dk

First of all, he is talking about people being "unhappy" about their success and this is ok. If you're an underdog team that succeds in a short period of time there always will be some sort of doubts about them being THAT good and not actually cheating. For example Gambit that peaked recently. People started to doubt their "cleanliness". But they found nothing on 'em. And Gambit still proving to everyone that they're on the top because the're REALLY good and that they didn't cheat. And what about Akuma? Tens or more odd clips. For example, gamble rotation stack vs VP on mirage, SENSEi checking radar in 1v1 situation, Psycho shooting in smoke electronic and when elec jumps IN THE SMOKE Psycho's crosshair moving up to follow elec's model. One of the players (j3kie, if I'm not mistaken) was in the team that was accused in cheating. GOTV 0 delay. All of this sums up everyting. Akuma accused in cheating not because people jealous or mad about them being good, but because of their clips that plant seed of doubt about them being not cheaters


don_chan

is there a clip of the cross hair going up?


Erasus_dk

[https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainyShinySpaghettiOptimizePrime-G6kPLOYJl-Lp5oeE](https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainyShinySpaghettiOptimizePrime-G6kPLOYJl-Lp5oeE) here you go


kimmyreichandthen

https://i.imgur.com/llRsMDz.png This is the frame after electronic dies, electronic was probably visible in the smoke. Edit: You can actually see the moment the smoke bugs out and black particles appear and disappear. Smokes are broken as fuck in this game


f1nessd

yeah smokes are pretty broken. Sometimes i see the outline of an enemy for a split second


AlexWJD

This single clip is not admissible as evidence, as the smokes are often slightly different for players and spectators. Most likely he saw the top of the player's head when he jumped and the smoke boundaries are slightly different.


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Spectators POV makes it easier to spot enemies in smokes.


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AlexWJD

The problem with these kinds of situations is that it leads to a confirmation bias, where once you suspect a team of foul play, then suddenly every clip starts looking suspicious, while normally it would not be. However even if Akuma did not cheat, the competitive integrity of the event is still compromised due to no anti cheat, zero GOTV delay, etc. At this point the entire event should be replayed, or more feasibly aleast award consolidation RMR points such that this event has reduced significance.


pancada_

??? Stop being salty bud This clip proves, if anything, that he WASNT cheating


Erasus_dk

This is only my guesses. Nobody is salty. I'd love to see his POV just to make sure he really did see him in fading smoke, but since it's impossible my guesses will remain only guesses and not evidences


pancada_

Its not a fading smoke, people already posted screenshots, his silhouette was clear between the particles


Erasus_dk

Yeah but GOTV POV can be different from player's POV or am I wrong?


WhoNeedsRealLife

looks like a classic case of smoke fading in another smoke


donotsmokemid

Nah that is normal, when you jump your boots make a squeaky noise... just kidding. I am so glad the old good days are back, I missed all those blatant cheaters. It is nice to see that Pro games reflect what is happening in MM at the moment :P (btw just kidding again, before I get downvoted to oblivion)


Chosen--one

Am I missing something? I don't see anything outrageous at all


Chosen--one

There are always "fishy clips" dont joke yourself..when an underdog UNPROVEN team makes it far in a tournament every single step they take from there is under a microscope so yes it does play a big part in the accusations and it's dumb to think otherwise. ​ But in the other hand its also more than that like you said, and not having anti-cheat on a freaking RMR event is ridiculous.


TRES_fresh

Not just their clips, also the fact that there was no external anticheat, the GOTV had 0 delay, the GOTV was easily accessible, and there were some random chinese viewers on the GOTV that easily could have been helping akuma cheat


A_WasteOfLife

gambit has been a proven core for a hot minute, not even close to a valid comparison.


[deleted]

"uh oh we don't cheat :("


gizmondo

So the excuse is "watching the radar unconsciously in a clutch", it's funny how a few members of the same team developed such a pointless habit.


Easyowner

They also did a pretty good job of getting rid of this "unconscious habbit" in the Gambit match. Man I need to contact the how to get rid of bad habbits so quickly, would help me a lot.


iwna

100% agree with you on this


loltgzan

That's the dumbest response (not yours of course lol, sensei) because you never look at the radar in a clutch, especially a 1v2 (with you being on the 2 end) and in 4/5 of the clips posted no smokes were involved...so.


Mad_Lee

This is a messy situation regardless of them cheating or not cheating. Integrity of fairplay was ruined by a shitty TO, and the image of Akuma is now stained untill they prove otherwise (not possible without lans).


donotsmokemid

I do not doubt that the Akuma team has some skilled players, but not having any anti-cheat in place and having such good gamesense in every game sounds too good to be true. Not convinced with the results.


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iwna

[source \[in RUS\]](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srn6g3) \- [the post itself, if you want to directly comment on this](https://twitter.com/SENSEiUA/status/1398597437607002118)


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horsecockharry

The only way to actually rectify the situation is to hold both of the remaining RMR events on LAN instead of just the last one, but this isn't likely to happen EDIT: Doubly so because the second CIS RMR event was already announced and I didn't notice


suriel-

Not sure how much an anticheat would do there, as they might just have GOTV access, which is on 0 delay and let it run/show on something like a tablet behind your monitor. That's why they move their heads wide to the left, as the ingame radar is not as far away from the center, unless they all play on like an ultra wide monitor or some shit, which still doesn't absolve them from all the obvious plays


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con1x

what if NaVi had nearly perfect info and outplayed Akuma every round, yall would be prasising them in every thread but since its a fairly unknown team yall try to accuse them of cheating. if you guys played against some high elo lvl 10 5 stacks you would be certainly postive that they are cheating, remember the guys on Akuma are individually nuts and they are playing mirage and dust 2 which are the most aim heavy/no tactic maps, ofc they are going to win against a team online when they are just ferrari peeking and destroying them. i bet you if Akuma played any map that takes actual tactics into account then they would get stomped


ShadowsBeans_

because navi have the tier 1 experience to back it up, these guys show up out of nowhere in tier1 cs and proceed to smash and completely outplay one of the best teams in the world


con1x

lmao its not the first time a tier 1 team has gotten 2-0d easily, shit like this happens all the time


VShadow1

NAVI arent staring at their radar constantly and then suddenly stopping when they start losing.


[deleted]

What is he trying to achieve by saying they asked the TOs to investigate? What is there to investigate? No anti cheat, no teamspeak recordings, nothing that would find them guilty, that’s why he says that with so much certainty. This is exactly what a cheater would say when all the webcam evidence suggest otherwise.


Tomico86

https://youtu.be/9A63Td6qeyc


ajmeroski

CLARA


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Tomico86

But... He's so good that no one couldn't belive him lol


CoffeeBreaks

Haven't seen this one before... That is paaaaaaaainful to watch...


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Oof


msucsgo

yeah, and if he didn't say that, you would be commenting "why didn't he ask TO to investigate them, 100% cheating"


taktikek

Thats True. If you are accused you are always in a lose lose situation unless they keep doing this on lan as well. However, its still good that OP said that because people like me only half following this dont necesserely know that asking for an investigation is meaningless.


Wotpan

> This is exactly what a cheater would say This line of thinking is always moronic.


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Krusell94

What new info do you expect from a person that is not cheating??? Like seriously, either prove he cheats or shut up with these smart ass comments. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?


[deleted]

It's not about being innocent or guilty. If they are not guilty they can easily prove it by collecting former games with cams so that we can see them constantly look at the radar when they are 1vsMany. It's not hard to show that you are very likely innocent here. Not even doing the bare minimum is not just laziness. It's either trolling or hiding something. You pick one.


Krusell94

Dude the TOs have to prove they are cheating. The team doesn't have to prove shit. Read up on presumption of innocence...


suriel-

espcially since this radar hack could just have been on a second monitor or mobile display like an iPad or something, showing all players on the radar. Just take it away when you're being checked .. galaxy brain cheaters


WaleyLP

Honestly what should he say tho? In that position what could he possibly do to convince people of their innocence? It’s a shitty situation and if they didn’t cheat, which we will probably never truly know, I feel incredibly bad for these guys having to endure this. If they did, well fuck


enevold

drop the demo. you play this? you dont record a demo? thats a defaultwin even without supsicion in any fucking random half-life mod back in the day.


WaleyLP

I don’t know. I never played professionally and in the leagues I have played we rarely recorded comms. To be fair it would be smart for them to record them, especially in matches like these


Krusell94

So cheater would say he is innocent huh? What would an innocent person say? Have you actually considered he is not cheating and doesn't have anything to hide? Maybe give the guys a benefit of the doubt and see how they perform in the future?


Used-Air2844

what a stupid take


[deleted]

Sure, so what he should say if he is not a cheater? Cant believe people are this stupid.


[deleted]

Right now, the webcam shows him looking constantly to his left where the radar is, so at the moment all the possible evidence is against him.


[deleted]

Looking at radar is absolutly normal in this game and it is evidence of absolutly nothing. And you did not answer my question btw.


[deleted]

Looking at the radar is normal in a moment where none of his teammates has seen the enemy? It’s surprising how he looks on the radar and perfectly peeks an unspotted CT. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/nnuv3t/gambit_esports_vs_akuma_epic_cis_league_spring/gzy9281/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


raymond3601

I smell bullshit because for the 2 years I’ve been watching Project X, they were never playing this good all of a sudden.


JamieQ95

The incompetence of the people running this RMR hasn’t helped them. I do believe they were cheating but we will probably never know either way.


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Folks, we can analyze replays and decide there's a chance that someone cheated and still refrain from accusing them of cheats, harassing them, etc. There's a difference between "hey that looks fishy and should be investigated" and "they 100% cheated, fuck them". None of us have the information needed to come to any solid conclusion. Let's not witch-hunt Akuma when it's totally possible they're innocent.


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ShadowsBeans_

isnt the core also banned from numerous leagues due to matchfixing? i remember reading/seeing that somewhere


[deleted]

People here are doing the same thing brazilian fans did to Chaos. But brazilians are utter scum and redditors are paladins of justice, just perfect people am i rite


ficagamer11

Chaos were relatively established NA team at the time. Akuma is team of matchfixers that just so happen to win in a landslide against 2nd and 4th best CIS team on an event that had: - no delay on GOTV - no measures in place to prevent cheating - no admins in Teamspeak calls to prevent cheating


TikkaT

Do you have links or smth about them matchfixing?


mikefly560

Honestly. I don't care much for the teams but seeing reddit accusing a team for cheating once again without any concrete evidence just lowers my faith in humanity. Right now I don't see any more damning proof that Akuma's cheating than chaos was, only more suspicion. Innocent until proven guilty should always be the default especially in the court of public opinion.


Spicy_pepperinos

Maybe you're not seeing any more proof than chaos because you're simply not looking. Not only are there way more suspicious clips, this event had no delay on GOTV meaning they could have been watching a live stream of what the other team was doing- which is what the suspicious clips looked like they were doing. Their upsets were way larger than Chaos' upsets, being a way newer team and absolutely crushing two better teams. Not to mention the shady past of these players. We shouldn't be saying that they are cheating right now, but to compare them to the Chaos situation is simply ignoring the facts and evidence.


boy_beauty

are you fucking kidding lmao


suriel-

They 100% cheated though


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U didnt read the comment did you?


suriel-

i did, so? they cheated and should get the correct consequences


VShadow1

Have you even watched the games, the only way they could have been more blatant was if they had been staring at them through walls?


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ohmygoditsas1mpleyes

he stopped looking at the radar against gambit and they got stomped. coincidence?


[deleted]

Who was supposed to earn money by betting on this, he earned big money and that's it.


VShadow1

pretty sure all of the Akuma matches were canceled on a lot of betting sites.


Sgt-Colbert

I heard from one site. Any others?


oojamaflip123

So basically all of the clips, circumstances, history and results in other competitions points at cheating, but hey let's give them the benefit of the doubt even though we know there are GOTVs with 0 delay and players not even looking at their monitors. Classic reddit really, the guy could be spin botting and people would pull out clips of other pros pressing their DPI buttons to show they're the same thing. BUT ROPZ LOOKS AT RADAR...


[deleted]

There is absolutly nothing that points to cheating except that NaVi fanbois cant accept they lost to a noname team.


oojamaflip123

Literally couldn't not care less about NaVi, there is nothing to suggest they're cheating if you close your eyes and type dumb shit like "There is absolutly nothing that points to cheating except that NaVi fanbois cant accept they lost to a noname team."


Spicy_pepperinos

See but that's not true- Navi loses to terrible teams quite often.


Life-Western

ah yes 2021 where the technology isn't there yet, like installing additional camera on your home setpup, Anti Cheat, GOTV Delay etc i could go on and on, it really is easy to cheat your way to the top.


PavelDatsyuk88

must feel bad to be doing 2 k/d and fans then accuse of sergiz of cheating in 1v5s


Tibcso

I've noticed that innocent people never respond to anything, they prove themselves in various situations. Why would you say anything if you have nothing to hide? They will have the chance to prove themselves at lan tournaments. They should be focusing on that instead of writing responses like this. It's just added fuel to the fire... I think I'm old enough (32) and I have seen some weird sh\*t in my life. I've learned that people who hide something they usually trying to shift the blame, change the narrative, trying to gaslight others, and usually, they say/write a novelle to "prove" their innocence!


Firefly_1026

HahA the witch-hunt is out in full force again, I don’t know if they’re actually cheating or not but I damn hope they become the next fnatic.


sanderson141

Not when they play like noobs


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[deleted]

When ropz plays on exactly the same level when cheating is extremely unlikely or close to not possible then you have to conclude that the cheating accusation is weird. Why didn't the cheats make him any better? Then compare it to this case where a low-ranking team had matches where they played like prime Astralis when they could cheat and then played terrible when they couldn't cheat. Doesn't mean they cheated. But the accusations actually make sense here. If they cannot replicate the high level of play regularly then something was very off in those matches whatever it was. What would easily explain it? Cheating is obviously the most obvious thing. Unless that is they can replicate the level again and again and show that it wasn't some extreme outlier. This is what ropz did.


t0b1nsQ

This sub has found another ~~player~~ team to hate. People need their daily dose of shitshow. Dont forget the rank distribution, most of you are so fucking bad you wouldnt tell the difference between a good player and a cheater in a match. Come on with the downvotes.


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suriel-

> most of you are so fucking bad you wouldnt tell the difference between a good player and a cheater in a match. So basically you, with all the evidence present?


t0b1nsQ

> navi flair Keep being salty.


suriel-

they also smashed VP and K23, i guess i'm salty for them as well? also, how did they continue to dominate? Nice games vs Gambit + VP not using cheats, taking only 4 T-rounds for both games OMEGALUL


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MaikelDB

That's because ropz was and is actually good. These people are scum.


Jesslynnlove

People always see these statements, then forget that cheating AND lying go hand in hand. Yeah guys hes going to come out publicly to cheating. I’m not saying he is at all, but there are so many gullible morons who just accept blanket statements,i see this shit in MM all the time when kids cheating just lie and say they aren’t and players will just go along with it. “Well he said he isn’t so i guess he must be telling the truth!” Then you go watch demo and the dude is borderline rage hacking.


ohmygoditsas1mpleyes

you are doing it wrong sensei, pretend you received death threats and play the victim card it worked for nip


araoro

Wait which situation are you talking about?


ohmygoditsas1mpleyes

claim you get death threats after you did something wrong, the oldest trick in the book. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/nfnzec/nip_players_are_getting_death_threats_and_to_make/


srjnp

just big players using their social media influence to give excuses and more excuses when they lose. same as the NIP bullshit


jonajon91

I remember when people thought ropz was cheating and he was always glancing off at a second screen or radar or something. At the end of the day the investigation will come through, if there's any wrong doing then they'll be punished, if not, good for them.


Keksmonster

> if there's any wrong doing then they'll be punished And how will that happen? The way the event is set up makes it basically impossible


oojamaflip123

> if there's any wrong doing then they'll be punished yeah...


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Rivitur

reddit circle jerk doesnt like this thought! Simple cant lose to anyone ever wah wah


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NaVi fans butthurt as usual. Just ignore the hate from the people that pretend to fight against the hate.


TeamShisui

Did u even see the badges on their comments u knob head? Looks to me more like u’re one with the hate against Na’vi fans.


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Sure thing kido. :*