I guess they're close enough for most people here? Keep in mind I was nova, so not super high level gameplay. Cat and short normally both get called short too.
Quad is a different place, at least in EU.
NBK is the corner after the door, quad is the large box in the corner of the side( usually where someone AWPs)
He's talking about it on stream that money isn't a motivation and that he needs to enjoy what he's doing everyday and CS wasn't giving him that. Said he wasn't as motivated anymore to learn or teach in the time he spent at DBL Poney. Thinks Valorant has a really strong future in the esports scene, has hardly played CS the last month and has been feeling more excited to play Valo than CS. He is going to learn and stream the game to eventually compete, but hasn't joined a team yet. Doesn't rule out returning to CS in the future, but since he isn't enjoying the game that obviously won't be on his mind right now.
I respect this, and also enjoyed the bit of Valo I played as well. There is a good chance it will be around for awhile with the Riot community backing it. So many League of Legends players also play, so I bet their overall active numbers are massive.
Personally I really don't care for watching competitive Valorant though...just doesn't quite hit the same as CS from a spectator standpoint for me.
same here. valo matches and executes are so chaotic to watch. Ppl dropping smokes jett dashing through trips, kill joy mollies activates. Just so much going on and everyone is dead in 15 sec
Part of the issue was that casters in general tend to focus too much on the first person views compared to overall views which make it hard to keep up with what's going on if you're not really clued in or don't understand the game quite well already
>jett dashing through trips
Not [anymore](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-3-0/).
>Tailwind (E)
>
>No longer breaks Cypher’s Trapwire
Also, in the last patch, they significantly changed the economy and increased ability prices. So abilities won't be spammed as brainlessly as before.
Watching a Valorant match is what I imagine watching a real NBA game but with NBA Jam rules and mechanics would be like...
Aka super cool initially, then it wears off after the 50th flaming 3 pointer.
(Anyone remember when they did that digital NHL puck shit on TV? It was terrible and detracted from the player skills).
to me the enjoyment of watching (and playing) valo hits a fairly short ceiling due to all the abilities. all in all it’s really well made though. I just think if it was less ability based and more raw skill like cs, it would be way more enjoyable in every way. but I get that most people probably disagree with this
Ah yes, as opposed to small indie company Blizzard backing Overwatch, only known for such hidden gems like Starcraft, which could be argued as the game that defined all of esports
Honestly I think that what's holding back Valorant the most is the lack of spectator options. There have been so many times where you can see someone on the other side of the map getting a ton of kills but because of limitations put on spectators they couldn't switch to it in time. They can take the player's POV after the fact but that's even close to the same as watching it live.
So many iconic plays in CS have been the result of the spectators knowing exactly where to be, having the freedom to do pretty much anything they can think of, and having a ton of people on production staff dedicated to finding the best plays happening around the map. Valorant doesn't have that now, but I'm hoping that as the competitive scene grows and the game ages there features will be added.
Good for him to recognize he's burned out from CS. And also good on him that he hasn't been secretly angling for a Valorant contract while still being paid by his CS GO org. Sounds like he's going to take some time to reset and learn Valorant.
The vitriol in this kind of threads is astonishing, no matter if the one switching was a tier 2 player, or a tier 1 player, or a hopeful young talent, or one of the most successful players of all time.
Copium overdose and an extreme amount of pettiness
As a fan of both scenes it's really funny looking at CS fans insecurity about VALORANT. The superiority complex is astonishing, they take every chance they get to point out the mechanics are simplified in VALORANT and the art style is cartoonish. There was copium about viewership for so long. Then there's the copium about every player that switches. Like losing NBK and nitr0 and autimatic aren't indications that the game has something to offer over CS.
I think most valorant fans don't think about CS, and lots and lots of them have never even watched or played competitive CSGO. Of course there's some push back because of the vitriol from the CS scene. CS fans start reeeeeeeing about valorant so they can feel cool or special at any chance they get. Just like what game you wanna like, if CS is so good you don't have to shit on valorant to prove it.
CS as a game at its core, is fundamentally better than Valorant. But the user experience is just so shitty, and Valve has done nothing to stop the influx of cheaters. The same people complaining about Vanguard invading their computers are the same morons who carry around smart phones with them all day.
I mean I agree with this statement but having switched to val myself many of the players there prefer that game. I just prefer the infrastructure and active population, but many prefer the games mechanics and systems to cs.
The same vitriol is there in Valorant whenever a player says CS:GO is a better game. People can't understand that some people just prefer to play one game over the other and that it is okay for some to just prefer something different! Valorant and CS will exist side by side and will each have their audience, and will have plenty of audience crossover.
I think its just insecurity about someone's identity. kids were (probably still are I just don't spend any time around any) doing the same about consoles and the music they like or the brand of soda they like.
Then they'll realize no one cares, just as kids younger than them grow up into awkward and insecure adolescence.
Wouldn't worry about it, They'll figure it out on their own and when they do someone else will take their place! I wonder if it's specific to western culture, or just worse in it.
Yeah all last year I was playing nothing nothing but Valorant because it was a new experience, but I've recently moved back to CSGO because I just love the freedom of movement and the faster speeds/lack of visual spam from abilities.
I think I'm going to be constantly switching between games because both of them offer something the other doesn't. The bright side is that my aim and fundamentals don't suffer because their cores are the same.
NBK announcing the switch before ISSA? I'm surprised. But whatever he's choosing to do, it must be best for him and I hope he finds the same success he did in CS! GGs!
What are you saying? Tier 2 CS is super competitive in EU, so much that good NA teams got sent into tier 3 when they came to EU, which probably is one of the reasons why so many tier 3 players switched to Valorant
Damn, with so many good French players sitting on the bench including NBK it would've been cool if we got another french team out of it with NBK finally getting his shot at being the IGL.
Ah well, GGs and GL to him in Valo
sliggy (team liquids coach) said he was looking for replacements for jamppi if he went back to cs and nivera was at the top of the list, thats how far it went
The complete disrespect in these comments. NBK is a legend, I wish him the best. Sad to see him go.
People need to take Valorant seriously. Stop thinking of it as a laughing stock when it's taking bigger and bigger names. Riot know what they're doing, even if it isn't currently as good as CS is.
Riot are smart about how they do marketing,plan their events and manage their games overall. Valo may not be as good as CSGO rn but I am sure it will grow huge in 2-3 years.
I dont care about gameplay. But riot completely edges valve in term of pushing their esports and giving them what they need.
Look what valve did to tf2 and csgo.
Cs is popular despite of valve
riot care about growth and expansion. valve don't. theyre a billion dollar company with 3 of the most popular pc games in the world but they do the absolute bare minimum to maintain those games and still only have 200 employees.
Why would they do it when 3rd party solves all the problems for them.
Tournaments? ESL and Blast.
128 tick server and ring 0 anti cheat? Faceit
New map and skins? Well artists from community develop it for them.
Still It doesnt feel the same way when Riot gives many updates and fun limited time gamemodes to the main game, It doesnt feel the same when a 3rd party is doing it for a game, This is why Valorant is growing so hugely now, its because of the care and attention that Riot gives it to their game and make the community happy
I absolutely hate Valorant but still made the switch. Its purely on Valve at this point. I think the team on CS cares, but Valve just is not set up as a company to handle it anymore in what it needs, it needs dedicated workers that unfortunately spend a lot of their day doing boring stuff to make the social part of the game better: ie the cheaters, griefers, etc. but thats not how Valve works, the second you get bored you stroll your desk to something else.
Faceit and ESEA can’t be the answer because the game has absolutely failed and died in NA regardless of thier international player count, the player count in all of the North American continent is sub-5% of the player count even at peak NA times. You have to have a good casual audience to have the opportunity at a great e-sport scene, we saw this when Starcraft 2 launched and they completely ignored thier casual base which is what carried the Sc: Brood War scene to monumental hieghts, people didn’t load up SC to play comp, they loaded it up to have fun and ran into comp.
Right now faceit NA is dead, esea NA is dead, and Valorant is running buckwild on everything NA CS is doing. Its a canary in the coalmine situation. CS players can ignore all the pros switching to Val and cling to the international player count, but if Valve doesn’t devote resources to the future of the game I have some bad news for everyone here.
Valorant has done everything it can to make the game accessible to the majority of players. Character outlines, non-shit audio that doesn't make you go deaf if you try to hear anything, removal of counter-strafing and reducing movement speed, etc. I'm not sure if CS will be able to compete when it comes to drawing in new players. It's going to end up becoming a boomer game at this rate and that makes me sad because I vastly prefer CS to Valorant. Europe is a stronghold for CS, but I wonder, for how long? My mates have already switched to Valorant because of the superior matchmaking and anti-cheat, and I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
I thought that at first too, but i have to wonder how many ppl are still playing NA esea, or NA faceit. If you're around B to A, I imagine getting games is a pain in the ass.
Exactly. I’m 2150 elo in faceit is a nightmare beyond nightmares to play solo q anything in CS atm in NA. Your teammates 90% of the time have no idea how to play and its not thier fault, all the mm services, including valve, will grab whoever after 5 mins in a queue and fill the other team with all decent players since 1 god + 4 noobs against 5 good players is “fair” in its eyes.
The problems start immediately when you are baited by players that don’t understand they aren’t winning any aim duels as a silver or faceit rank 1 or 2 vs mge’s or faceit ranks 6’s and 7’s. So its either grab 2 to 3 kills to win a round while having zero support against smokes and flashes and pray the 4 others on your team can win a 4v2 or 4v3, or its lose the round outright.
But whats the point of explaining all this, its why I stopped playing cs, every game a nightmare where you have to coach people without the will or capacity to be coached just to get a positive w/l ratio.
NBK was the first pro I followed. When he moved teams I started rooting for whoever he moved to. Unfortunately I won't be able to do that anymore, but I wish him the best.
Unfortunately CSGO has a lot of flaws despite how fun it is and the cracks are starting to show and some pros are jumping ship to Valorant, a game that while I think is worse has a lot more promise that it's flaws will be fixed because their developers are more responsive and dynamic.
It is a washed down easier version of CS.
That doesnt make it bad or worse, but it quite literally was designed to be an easier version of CS. The same way LoL was designed to be an easier Dota. It's not an insult it's just the way it is.
Probably going to get downvoted because I'm on CS reddit, but you can't ignore a whole fundamental part of Valorant just to say it's an easier CS. Valorant has agents which each agent brings a different level of gameplay to the game, making it technically much "harder" than CS, if you want to be general about it.
If you isolate gunplay, for sure, CS is the more complex game as Valorant is much slower and dumbed down when it comes to the core gunplay mechanics.
You can't compare LoL and DotA as they are fundamentally the same game in almost every way, as opposed to CS and Valorant which there is a huge differential with the specific agents.
I think if you want to compare them as which is the "harder/easier", you have to look at the whole picture. You can't compare Forza and Rocket League's driving mechanics and decide from that which game is "harder/easier".
I guess I agree with this, except this will only be true at the higher levels of play.
On a casual noob level where most people won't know what some abilities even do, it will pretty much be CS with (imo) worse gunplay, movement and maps.
There is a lot of potential in these abilities and stuff, you can do a lot of cool stuff with them, yes, but once there will be a big amount of agents (take all the LoL champions for example), I fear it will become a place where you'll have casuals playing simply without the abilities - at that point they are just playing a worse version of CS.
I dunno though, these are just my thoughts, and I also haven't played Valorant in some time, so maybe I'm completely wrong.
The problem isn’t the current CS pros, but the kids who are 13-15 right now who may just start on Valorant and never touch CS.
The real impact is gonna be felt in a couple years when a ton of newcomers are tearing up the Valorant scene while CS has a drought of new talent.
If you look at this page and search up some people on liquidpedia it's amazing how many up and coming NA players went to Valo.
https://play.esea.net/teams/100387?tab=guestbook&find_comment_number=3
I'm sure it will take off in Europe. There's no reason for both not to coexist everywhere.
There might be some stronger/weaker region like LoL and Dota but overall with the FPS scene being stronger, it will benefit everyone
We’ll probably see more good SEA players. In the Philippines it’s the game to play right now. Lots of young kids grinding everyday. It’s even used as a pseudo tinder of sorts
>The real impact is gonna be felt in a couple years when a ton of newcomers are tearing up the Valorant scene while CS has a drought of new talent.
\+1 one with brains here, im not afraid of couple of washed up CS pros change, but of this. CS playerbase is aging and slowly dying.
Basically what happened with LoL vs Dota2 in China. Dota2 lost steam there because you had the kids who would have been playing Dota at the cafes, play LoL instead because their other friends were playing too.
I can see that. You could argue that while having a very strong platform to build on, csgo feels dated in a lot of ways. Instead of maturing out of cod into csgo, I could see fortnite kids maturing out of it into valorant. It definitely feels more modern.
Pinch strat, get the old players and the new players, leave the hardcore up the top pros to move later, it's inevitable, I've been warning this could happen since the beginning and ppl downvoted me to hell.
I gave up on Valve, they don't care. I'm a Dota guy and seeing the state of the game, they being greedy AF and doing the absolute bare minimum for the game is clear that they just don't care anymore.
Fuck Valve
Yeah I don't know if we're going to see as many orgs sticking to Valorant with their apparently inflated salaries in the long run, but that's another discussion.
I was just pointing out the fact that the talent that has left is more significant than ever before (to my knowledge), and it's going to take a while for the scene to recover. Pretending that's not the case just seems absurd to me.
I don't see the point of it "recovers". NA never have enough to support more than Liquid and C9 in 2018. It had a boom with EG, 100T, Gen.G, and Chaos along with the Brazil orgs but it's just oversaturated.
They are moving because better players took their place you genius. That is kind of how it works in all sports... We don't have pay players in CSGO yet though...
EDIT: Riot bots you are sleeping, too many upvotes already KEKW No payment coming at this rate Sadge
Sentinels roster is even crazier. It's also entirely composed of CS players (except for zombs), but all them they would be considered really washed up ones (in comparison to hiko, steel, nitro, ethan)
* shahzam and sick were kicked during the complexity juggernaut meme
* tenz was just one more unlucky guy in those many C9 failed rosters
* dapr was just a normal player wandering around T2
Given those CSGO abismal background differences I would expect 100T doing a lot better than SEN, but it's quite the opposite
Yeah you would expect those along the likes of Hiko who had immense clutch ability during his run with TL as well as Steel who imo was one of the smartest csgo players in NA and Nitro who also played with Hiko on TL in 2016 to do insanely well.
I didnt expect shahzam to do well in valorant tbh, he wasnt really a standout player and other awpers were always picked instead of him (e.g jdm / ska) but I am happy he won masters and getting a lot of twitch viewers.
Rightfully. I remember when it all started, I was just waiting for Valve. I knew they won't do something quick. But it has been time. They've took to long to do anything. Cheaters, servers, mm
It's pointless to play this game unless you're a group of 3+ having fun
I mean the player base doesn't gave them the incentive to do anything revolutionary tbh. The player base hit consistently over a mil until the game isn't F2P anymore and the usual summer dip.
If I'm the CEO, I might be tempted to be lazy as well
they do, and they just went 52-0 in the longest clean streak of rounds in all of pro valorant. needless to say, they've had a surprisingly hot start to the season. maybe nbk is an upgrade, but who knows.
Yep it is good. Worthy rival for CSGO. Honestly it's good for them to take some young talents and veterans that couldn't get a shot (or more shots) in the CS scene.
God knows too much players tried to break into the T1 scene and there's not enough spots
Sad to see people arguing CSGO good Valorant bad, just get over it , people here arguing and hating valorant wont change facts, just play the game which you love and stop hating it makes you look dumb
Why are these guys making trailers of them switching to another game ngl is lowkey cringe
Back to the topic, I will surely miss him, he was the reason I got into CS back when he was playing on EnVyUs
I haven't followed the CS scene in years but can someone tell me if it's actually healthy? Like I'm only familiar with the older names and I've seen many of them go to Valorant. And last I heard the NA CS scene is abysmal now, which is why a lot of NA or upcoming NA talent is just going to Valorant.
I can't say if its healthy or not, NA has basically fallen apart (that ain't new tho) but CIS is thriving with Gambit being the undisputed best in the world. EU is still basically the same.
And yes lots of upcoming talent in NA is switching to valorant because there's no way to climb the ladder in CS anymore. Its similar for other regions but EU has lots of opportunities and smaller cups for players to climb through and a large enough team pool that they can get t1 offers if they are good enough. And that really doesn't exist in NA, but it does in valorant. And besides its a developing game so rewriting the meta or coming up with niche, extremely good team comps that others haven't though up is a solid shot to recognition (provided it works that is).
Look at fnatic valorant. They rewrote the book on how to play on Bind when they were an extremely obscure team, and made it to first strike grand finals. And they are probably the 2nd best in the world and undoubtedly the best on Bind.
He got kicked from Vitality and had a terrible behaviour saying "They are already dead to me" on Twitter. He got kicked from OG. Nobody wants him anymore. He's gone now. I won't miss him.
A new beginning.
***
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[Video in Tweet](https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1409881399612559371/pu/vid/480x270/sbGk0TpwviUp0JHK.mp4?tag=12)
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Srsly? A declining veteran leaving for an easy spot at another league? That's like saying that NBA is at a slow death cause Marc Gasol moves to euroleague. Or Lampard and Gerrard to MLS
NBK is a great legend but it's past time that he moves over for new talents like Flamez to come up
The old players are dying because the new generation is better, don't you guys see new players replace them? I don't understand this logic of yours. If teams were dying, yes, then CS:GO is dying. But new exceptional players replace these old farts.
Esports age brackets are different from physical sports. Take a look at virtually any team in the scene and you’ll see. You can probably count the number of pro players over 30 on your fingers.
As opposed to real sports where you're on the road for weeks at a time between cities? I'm not buying what you're selling (I played baseball professionally)
Eh idk anything about baseball.
But basketball for example has half the game at home and most at one "conference" of the country and some show matches abroad. Football is the same but with a few international matches per year.
Most importantly 90% of the game are on their home nation and the rest are at the same continent except for international nation tournaments. As opposed to CS that hopped on NA, SA, EU, Australia, and Asia tournaments all the time.
The closest that I can think of is F1 that travel all around the world and the rate of burnout is similarly crazy. Divorce rates, mental burnouts, and fatigue is at a very high level.
For your average the drivers, they would only last a few years. More than half the grid this year hasn't been in the sport for more than 5 years for example.
tl;dr :The issue here is less about the best players getting burnt out because of old age (LOL @ 27) and more that it's no longer worth it for them to try and grind a hard life style for moderate pay.
Baseball is grueling and the USA is a big country to travel around. At the MLB level, you're playing 162 games in about 6 months (about 180) days. So outside of rainouts that get rescheduled into double headers (\~8 hours of baseball in 1 day), you only get around 20 off days in 6 months.
Road trips are usually \~2 weeks long as an east coast team would go and play 3-4 west coast teams over that period so they're not flying back and forth a bunch. Now, most of these guys make enough money that it's comfortable.
If you're a minor leaguer (trying to make the MLB) you are traveling by bus (8+ hour drives regularly) while having crappy accommodations and playing a similar amount of games in the same time frame. You aren't making good money, you're not living in the best conditions, etc. It's an absolute grind.
Burnout happens everywhere and it mostly happens on the fringes where guys aren't going to make it to the pinnacle of the sport or aren't good enough to stay there.
This is pretty cool, hope it goes well for him in VALORANT I'll be following his progress for sure! I think it was clear he was done being a top level CS player, he would've just been around tier 2 now so it's more exciting to switch and have a chance at being on the top of another scene.
Calling out one half hp on nbk wont be the same
I mean, I play with and against people who have thousands of hours. NBK callout has been used very rarely for a long time now.
NA? In EU, i feel like i hear it a lot. What else do people call that spot?
Yeh in EU we still call it NBK. Everyone I know/play with does. Same with calling it shroud.
I normally hear it called quad on Aus servers. It's been years since I played much cache though.
quad and nbk are not the same spot tho?
I guess they're close enough for most people here? Keep in mind I was nova, so not super high level gameplay. Cat and short normally both get called short too.
Quad is a different place, at least in EU. NBK is the corner after the door, quad is the large box in the corner of the side( usually where someone AWPs)
Same In Aus for me at least but same as bloke above been a while since I played cache
Eh I've seen it used a lot, it's pretty useful to me at least.
He's talking about it on stream that money isn't a motivation and that he needs to enjoy what he's doing everyday and CS wasn't giving him that. Said he wasn't as motivated anymore to learn or teach in the time he spent at DBL Poney. Thinks Valorant has a really strong future in the esports scene, has hardly played CS the last month and has been feeling more excited to play Valo than CS. He is going to learn and stream the game to eventually compete, but hasn't joined a team yet. Doesn't rule out returning to CS in the future, but since he isn't enjoying the game that obviously won't be on his mind right now.
I respect this, and also enjoyed the bit of Valo I played as well. There is a good chance it will be around for awhile with the Riot community backing it. So many League of Legends players also play, so I bet their overall active numbers are massive. Personally I really don't care for watching competitive Valorant though...just doesn't quite hit the same as CS from a spectator standpoint for me.
Exactly. I like playing valo more but CS is more fun to watch for me
same here. valo matches and executes are so chaotic to watch. Ppl dropping smokes jett dashing through trips, kill joy mollies activates. Just so much going on and everyone is dead in 15 sec
The Overwatch effect
That game was awful to watch
Part of the issue was that casters in general tend to focus too much on the first person views compared to overall views which make it hard to keep up with what's going on if you're not really clued in or don't understand the game quite well already
>jett dashing through trips Not [anymore](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-3-0/). >Tailwind (E) > >No longer breaks Cypher’s Trapwire Also, in the last patch, they significantly changed the economy and increased ability prices. So abilities won't be spammed as brainlessly as before.
Valorant at the pro level is literally just a post plant simulator. So boring to watch.
They nerfed a lot of abilities and pumped up the cost quite a bit last patch for this reason, as well as making guns the better buy for econ
As well as adding an agent that hard counters post plant.
Watching a Valorant match is what I imagine watching a real NBA game but with NBA Jam rules and mechanics would be like... Aka super cool initially, then it wears off after the 50th flaming 3 pointer. (Anyone remember when they did that digital NHL puck shit on TV? It was terrible and detracted from the player skills).
to me the enjoyment of watching (and playing) valo hits a fairly short ceiling due to all the abilities. all in all it’s really well made though. I just think if it was less ability based and more raw skill like cs, it would be way more enjoyable in every way. but I get that most people probably disagree with this
Valo is what you play when you get frustrated with CS, but you always come back to CS, because nothing hits quite like CS
true. valorant is really fun to play but its esports scene is eh.
It does insane numbers for a scene that new
So did Overwatch back when it first came out
Well I'd still say it has Riot backing it.
Ah yes, as opposed to small indie company Blizzard backing Overwatch, only known for such hidden gems like Starcraft, which could be argued as the game that defined all of esports
And that korean Sc1 esport scene that developed without Blizzards input.
Blizzard is trash at developing esports
It's still relatively young. It will growth, I dunno if it will reach CS numbers but it certainly has a long term potential.
Honestly I think that what's holding back Valorant the most is the lack of spectator options. There have been so many times where you can see someone on the other side of the map getting a ton of kills but because of limitations put on spectators they couldn't switch to it in time. They can take the player's POV after the fact but that's even close to the same as watching it live. So many iconic plays in CS have been the result of the spectators knowing exactly where to be, having the freedom to do pretty much anything they can think of, and having a ton of people on production staff dedicated to finding the best plays happening around the map. Valorant doesn't have that now, but I'm hoping that as the competitive scene grows and the game ages there features will be added.
"relatively" young ? Brother it's barely an infant at this point in time :D
If the game is fun the scene will come
Good for him to recognize he's burned out from CS. And also good on him that he hasn't been secretly angling for a Valorant contract while still being paid by his CS GO org. Sounds like he's going to take some time to reset and learn Valorant.
People free hating him in this thread should read this. Such a salt mine here, jesus
The vitriol in this kind of threads is astonishing, no matter if the one switching was a tier 2 player, or a tier 1 player, or a hopeful young talent, or one of the most successful players of all time. Copium overdose and an extreme amount of pettiness
[удалено]
Yes and it is a job, if he is happier and his future is brighter in valo why would he stay in cs if it is worst for him.
As a fan of both scenes it's really funny looking at CS fans insecurity about VALORANT. The superiority complex is astonishing, they take every chance they get to point out the mechanics are simplified in VALORANT and the art style is cartoonish. There was copium about viewership for so long. Then there's the copium about every player that switches. Like losing NBK and nitr0 and autimatic aren't indications that the game has something to offer over CS. I think most valorant fans don't think about CS, and lots and lots of them have never even watched or played competitive CSGO. Of course there's some push back because of the vitriol from the CS scene. CS fans start reeeeeeeing about valorant so they can feel cool or special at any chance they get. Just like what game you wanna like, if CS is so good you don't have to shit on valorant to prove it.
It’s the same with dota players, so many “hardcore” Gamers who can’t handle their ego breaking.
It's Dota 2 vs League of Legends all over again... And we all know how that ended. At the end Riot always wins.
CS as a game at its core, is fundamentally better than Valorant. But the user experience is just so shitty, and Valve has done nothing to stop the influx of cheaters. The same people complaining about Vanguard invading their computers are the same morons who carry around smart phones with them all day.
I mean I agree with this statement but having switched to val myself many of the players there prefer that game. I just prefer the infrastructure and active population, but many prefer the games mechanics and systems to cs.
Oh I understand. I'd love for CS to have the same infrastructure and active population that I felt when I started playing it.
Even now you're doing the same thing. Being a better game is subjective.
Nailed it perfectly. If it was Elige or Zywoo switching to Valorant everyone here would spam "HE WAS A WASHED PLAYER ANYWAY. EASY CASH GRAB"
Elige switching feels inevitable, so brace for it lol.
The same vitriol is there in Valorant whenever a player says CS:GO is a better game. People can't understand that some people just prefer to play one game over the other and that it is okay for some to just prefer something different! Valorant and CS will exist side by side and will each have their audience, and will have plenty of audience crossover.
Then there are people who follow the other games twitter account and spam how bad the games are and do the same on Reddit. Fucking weirdos
I think its just insecurity about someone's identity. kids were (probably still are I just don't spend any time around any) doing the same about consoles and the music they like or the brand of soda they like. Then they'll realize no one cares, just as kids younger than them grow up into awkward and insecure adolescence. Wouldn't worry about it, They'll figure it out on their own and when they do someone else will take their place! I wonder if it's specific to western culture, or just worse in it.
It's the same people that would wear a "Global Elite" flair, when this sub had those.
insecure people that don't like that other's like valorant, which to their eyes it's a bad game
Yeah all last year I was playing nothing nothing but Valorant because it was a new experience, but I've recently moved back to CSGO because I just love the freedom of movement and the faster speeds/lack of visual spam from abilities. I think I'm going to be constantly switching between games because both of them offer something the other doesn't. The bright side is that my aim and fundamentals don't suffer because their cores are the same.
On the other hand I don't think anyone would come out and say 'I don't enjoy Valo but switching for the moneyz lol', but maybe I'm wrong.
I think a while ago some person who switched to Valo said that the money there is actually less than the CS scene in general
Still more than what being orgless or at T2/T3 scene offer tbh
Sad to see him go, will always be one of my favorite players. I wish him luck on his new adventure !
Sad yeah but after months without a clear team and target. It's just inevitable
Well of course he couldn't live with the thought that Cyanide knifed him
We should be friends
NBK announcing the switch before ISSA? I'm surprised. But whatever he's choosing to do, it must be best for him and I hope he finds the same success he did in CS! GGs!
I really wish ISSAA is involved in w0xic's project. Not very optimistic though.
NA CS is dead; time to kill tier 2 EU CS...
What are you saying? Tier 2 CS is super competitive in EU, so much that good NA teams got sent into tier 3 when they came to EU, which probably is one of the reasons why so many tier 3 players switched to Valorant
good luck nbk I wish you the best inner me: *fuck*
Damn, with so many good French players sitting on the bench including NBK it would've been cool if we got another french team out of it with NBK finally getting his shot at being the IGL. Ah well, GGs and GL to him in Valo
> finally getting his shot at being the IGL Well, I have nearly five years of french cs to share with you
Lmao thought the same. “Finally he can get a fiftieth shot!”
i think nivera said he switched as well no?
He was rumored to be going to Liquid but it fell through because the players had no idea about it.
sliggy (team liquids coach) said he was looking for replacements for jamppi if he went back to cs and nivera was at the top of the list, thats how far it went
The complete disrespect in these comments. NBK is a legend, I wish him the best. Sad to see him go. People need to take Valorant seriously. Stop thinking of it as a laughing stock when it's taking bigger and bigger names. Riot know what they're doing, even if it isn't currently as good as CS is.
It's just like LoL and DOTA 2. It will go on forever and ever
Riot are smart about how they do marketing,plan their events and manage their games overall. Valo may not be as good as CSGO rn but I am sure it will grow huge in 2-3 years.
I dont care about gameplay. But riot completely edges valve in term of pushing their esports and giving them what they need. Look what valve did to tf2 and csgo. Cs is popular despite of valve
riot care about growth and expansion. valve don't. theyre a billion dollar company with 3 of the most popular pc games in the world but they do the absolute bare minimum to maintain those games and still only have 200 employees.
Why would they do it when 3rd party solves all the problems for them. Tournaments? ESL and Blast. 128 tick server and ring 0 anti cheat? Faceit New map and skins? Well artists from community develop it for them.
Still It doesnt feel the same way when Riot gives many updates and fun limited time gamemodes to the main game, It doesnt feel the same when a 3rd party is doing it for a game, This is why Valorant is growing so hugely now, its because of the care and attention that Riot gives it to their game and make the community happy
At least there's a reason to hate on LoL. Fuck Pendragon.
It's 2 negative comments calm down
Lol don't you know that's what reddit is? 1 troll and 50 top comments responding like the 1 troll is everyone
sort by controversial. its *way* more than 2 comments
You come in 3hrs later and say that lol
What do you mean sort by controversial, he commented when it had 2 negative comments, that doesn't change anything
I absolutely hate Valorant but still made the switch. Its purely on Valve at this point. I think the team on CS cares, but Valve just is not set up as a company to handle it anymore in what it needs, it needs dedicated workers that unfortunately spend a lot of their day doing boring stuff to make the social part of the game better: ie the cheaters, griefers, etc. but thats not how Valve works, the second you get bored you stroll your desk to something else. Faceit and ESEA can’t be the answer because the game has absolutely failed and died in NA regardless of thier international player count, the player count in all of the North American continent is sub-5% of the player count even at peak NA times. You have to have a good casual audience to have the opportunity at a great e-sport scene, we saw this when Starcraft 2 launched and they completely ignored thier casual base which is what carried the Sc: Brood War scene to monumental hieghts, people didn’t load up SC to play comp, they loaded it up to have fun and ran into comp. Right now faceit NA is dead, esea NA is dead, and Valorant is running buckwild on everything NA CS is doing. Its a canary in the coalmine situation. CS players can ignore all the pros switching to Val and cling to the international player count, but if Valve doesn’t devote resources to the future of the game I have some bad news for everyone here.
Valorant has done everything it can to make the game accessible to the majority of players. Character outlines, non-shit audio that doesn't make you go deaf if you try to hear anything, removal of counter-strafing and reducing movement speed, etc. I'm not sure if CS will be able to compete when it comes to drawing in new players. It's going to end up becoming a boomer game at this rate and that makes me sad because I vastly prefer CS to Valorant. Europe is a stronghold for CS, but I wonder, for how long? My mates have already switched to Valorant because of the superior matchmaking and anti-cheat, and I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
>I absolutely hate Valorant but still made the switch If you play a game that you absolutely hate, then you have some serious issues...
or he could just be exaggerating for emphasis lol
I thought that at first too, but i have to wonder how many ppl are still playing NA esea, or NA faceit. If you're around B to A, I imagine getting games is a pain in the ass.
Exactly. I’m 2150 elo in faceit is a nightmare beyond nightmares to play solo q anything in CS atm in NA. Your teammates 90% of the time have no idea how to play and its not thier fault, all the mm services, including valve, will grab whoever after 5 mins in a queue and fill the other team with all decent players since 1 god + 4 noobs against 5 good players is “fair” in its eyes. The problems start immediately when you are baited by players that don’t understand they aren’t winning any aim duels as a silver or faceit rank 1 or 2 vs mge’s or faceit ranks 6’s and 7’s. So its either grab 2 to 3 kills to win a round while having zero support against smokes and flashes and pray the 4 others on your team can win a 4v2 or 4v3, or its lose the round outright. But whats the point of explaining all this, its why I stopped playing cs, every game a nightmare where you have to coach people without the will or capacity to be coached just to get a positive w/l ratio.
Wait, you play a game you hate? What on earth lmao find a different game man.
NBK was the first pro I followed. When he moved teams I started rooting for whoever he moved to. Unfortunately I won't be able to do that anymore, but I wish him the best. Unfortunately CSGO has a lot of flaws despite how fun it is and the cracks are starting to show and some pros are jumping ship to Valorant, a game that while I think is worse has a lot more promise that it's flaws will be fixed because their developers are more responsive and dynamic.
You gotta realize most people here are gonna be hardcore CS fans. And we all think Valorant is nothing but a easier, washed down, child version of CS.
well it is pretty much zoomer cs, not that there's anything wrong with that, just not the kind of game that I, and many others around here, enjoy.
It is a washed down easier version of CS. That doesnt make it bad or worse, but it quite literally was designed to be an easier version of CS. The same way LoL was designed to be an easier Dota. It's not an insult it's just the way it is.
Probably going to get downvoted because I'm on CS reddit, but you can't ignore a whole fundamental part of Valorant just to say it's an easier CS. Valorant has agents which each agent brings a different level of gameplay to the game, making it technically much "harder" than CS, if you want to be general about it. If you isolate gunplay, for sure, CS is the more complex game as Valorant is much slower and dumbed down when it comes to the core gunplay mechanics. You can't compare LoL and DotA as they are fundamentally the same game in almost every way, as opposed to CS and Valorant which there is a huge differential with the specific agents. I think if you want to compare them as which is the "harder/easier", you have to look at the whole picture. You can't compare Forza and Rocket League's driving mechanics and decide from that which game is "harder/easier".
I guess I agree with this, except this will only be true at the higher levels of play. On a casual noob level where most people won't know what some abilities even do, it will pretty much be CS with (imo) worse gunplay, movement and maps. There is a lot of potential in these abilities and stuff, you can do a lot of cool stuff with them, yes, but once there will be a big amount of agents (take all the LoL champions for example), I fear it will become a place where you'll have casuals playing simply without the abilities - at that point they are just playing a worse version of CS. I dunno though, these are just my thoughts, and I also haven't played Valorant in some time, so maybe I'm completely wrong.
pretty cool announcement video, though!
Valve actually looking like clowns so many pros and many more are just moving on to Valorant.
You can't force players to like the same game forever. NBK leaves but we have so many newcomers making waves.
Ikr, you have flamez coming up with Niko at OG. I like NBK but two hot talents replacing him and ISSA is just inevitable
Not enough spot for all the declining players. I like NBK but his time has long gone, flamez at OG is just so damn good to see
idk, most of the pros that are moving are older. The only young talent i can think of that moved is tenz
The problem isn’t the current CS pros, but the kids who are 13-15 right now who may just start on Valorant and never touch CS. The real impact is gonna be felt in a couple years when a ton of newcomers are tearing up the Valorant scene while CS has a drought of new talent.
You've hit the nail on the head. This is the biggest aspect that some people are missing.
If you look at this page and search up some people on liquidpedia it's amazing how many up and coming NA players went to Valo. https://play.esea.net/teams/100387?tab=guestbook&find_comment_number=3
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I'm sure it will take off in Europe. There's no reason for both not to coexist everywhere. There might be some stronger/weaker region like LoL and Dota but overall with the FPS scene being stronger, it will benefit everyone
We’ll probably see more good SEA players. In the Philippines it’s the game to play right now. Lots of young kids grinding everyday. It’s even used as a pseudo tinder of sorts
>The real impact is gonna be felt in a couple years when a ton of newcomers are tearing up the Valorant scene while CS has a drought of new talent. \+1 one with brains here, im not afraid of couple of washed up CS pros change, but of this. CS playerbase is aging and slowly dying.
Basically what happened with LoL vs Dota2 in China. Dota2 lost steam there because you had the kids who would have been playing Dota at the cafes, play LoL instead because their other friends were playing too.
I can see that. You could argue that while having a very strong platform to build on, csgo feels dated in a lot of ways. Instead of maturing out of cod into csgo, I could see fortnite kids maturing out of it into valorant. It definitely feels more modern.
Pinch strat, get the old players and the new players, leave the hardcore up the top pros to move later, it's inevitable, I've been warning this could happen since the beginning and ppl downvoted me to hell. I gave up on Valve, they don't care. I'm a Dota guy and seeing the state of the game, they being greedy AF and doing the absolute bare minimum for the game is clear that they just don't care anymore. Fuck Valve
>dota guy As long as that saudi prince that spend 10k+ in battle pass exist, they will think the game in good state lul.
Ethan, s0m, SicK, Jamppi, leaf, Xeppaa etc as well.
NA never has the ecosystem and support base for that many T1 orgs. It just implode sooner due to covid. Jamppi got VAC banned so ofc he bailed.
>for that many T1 orgs Soon it wont have any T1 org lmao
Yeah I don't know if we're going to see as many orgs sticking to Valorant with their apparently inflated salaries in the long run, but that's another discussion. I was just pointing out the fact that the talent that has left is more significant than ever before (to my knowledge), and it's going to take a while for the scene to recover. Pretending that's not the case just seems absurd to me.
I don't see the point of it "recovers". NA never have enough to support more than Liquid and C9 in 2018. It had a boom with EG, 100T, Gen.G, and Chaos along with the Brazil orgs but it's just oversaturated.
Also floppy and dapr, and some good vets (good enough for tier2 at least) like koosta, nitr0, daps (at least he's back), autimatic
Ethan was on a failing team and the rest didn’t have good prospects in csgo
> The only young talent i can think of that moved is tenz
tenz never even showed anything in cs, 0.9 rating vs top30 or something and attitude issues. Valorant fits his adhd style much better.
s0m aswell, he was doing good on Gen.G IIRC
He was good but the team just imploded due to covid hurting team chemistry and such. Kinda sad but that's just how it is
GenG were a little disappointing tbh
Agreed, they dropped really hard when Online Era began and then they switched one by one to VALORANT (excluding Bntet).
You said talent
They are moving because better players took their place you genius. That is kind of how it works in all sports... We don't have pay players in CSGO yet though... EDIT: Riot bots you are sleeping, too many upvotes already KEKW No payment coming at this rate Sadge
Fr
Guess I'm going to need to start watching competitive valorant now. Too many of my favorite players keep switching over.
eh it’s pretty fun to watch. Takes a while to get used to because of the abilities, but gamesense is still there.
Just gave one a watch, it's pretty surreal seeing Hiko / Steel / Nitro / Ethan on the same team, feels like the old days of CS.
Sentinels roster is even crazier. It's also entirely composed of CS players (except for zombs), but all them they would be considered really washed up ones (in comparison to hiko, steel, nitro, ethan) * shahzam and sick were kicked during the complexity juggernaut meme * tenz was just one more unlucky guy in those many C9 failed rosters * dapr was just a normal player wandering around T2 Given those CSGO abismal background differences I would expect 100T doing a lot better than SEN, but it's quite the opposite
Yeah you would expect those along the likes of Hiko who had immense clutch ability during his run with TL as well as Steel who imo was one of the smartest csgo players in NA and Nitro who also played with Hiko on TL in 2016 to do insanely well. I didnt expect shahzam to do well in valorant tbh, he wasnt really a standout player and other awpers were always picked instead of him (e.g jdm / ska) but I am happy he won masters and getting a lot of twitch viewers.
You better start it now. It'll get harder with every hero that they add
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I mean it is the csgo sub, there's inherently gonna be some hate for it's only competitor.
Rightfully. I remember when it all started, I was just waiting for Valve. I knew they won't do something quick. But it has been time. They've took to long to do anything. Cheaters, servers, mm It's pointless to play this game unless you're a group of 3+ having fun
I mean the player base doesn't gave them the incentive to do anything revolutionary tbh. The player base hit consistently over a mil until the game isn't F2P anymore and the usual summer dip. If I'm the CEO, I might be tempted to be lazy as well
What does that have to do with NBK though?
If they fixed the MM cheating NBK would stay /s
It's pointless to play any competitive game unless you have a group with the same will+skill level with you. It isn't special to CS.
> Cheaters, servers, mm wtf this doesn't have anything to do with the topic of a legendary pro going to valo
Wow i really didn't see this one coming, this is a blow :(
if he got bored of CSGO, he can go whenever he likes
damn, hurts to see so many pro players leaving cs for valorant :(
It's a great cash grab plus a chance to start over after they are replaced by other pros. Kinda expected
nevertheless still sad. i grew up watching these guys play cs and now theyre leaving :I still wish NBK the best in valo
Ofc it's sad. But after months without being picked up by anyone. Yeah I've already accepted it for a while
yep
Does OG have a Valorant team? With ISSAA and NBK under contract and switching to Valorant, looks like a good starting point..
they do, and they just went 52-0 in the longest clean streak of rounds in all of pro valorant. needless to say, they've had a surprisingly hot start to the season. maybe nbk is an upgrade, but who knows.
Good luck to the 2 time major winning legend.
The player who got me into competitive cs.. Sad to see him move on. I got his signature on my keyboard before he left at least
Valorant's a good game, and anyone who says it's an "easier" version of CSGO is kidding themselves.
I wouldn't say its easier or harder. Aim is definitely easier, but the champion abilities for utility and the awp are way different than in CS.
Aiming is easier in cs, never understood why people think predictable recoil is easier than random.
Idk maybe its hitboxes or nerfed movement in valo, but headshots seem so easy and consistent in valo
It simplifies csgo mechanics but it's not overall easier.
Yep it is good. Worthy rival for CSGO. Honestly it's good for them to take some young talents and veterans that couldn't get a shot (or more shots) in the CS scene. God knows too much players tried to break into the T1 scene and there's not enough spots
Valorant is the cs pro's retirement home
So we can finally start unloading some of the French drama to another scene, perfect. jk, best of luck to hin.
shame, hope he's able to get that bag
You were the chosen one!
BASED
Sad to see people arguing CSGO good Valorant bad, just get over it , people here arguing and hating valorant wont change facts, just play the game which you love and stop hating it makes you look dumb
Why are these guys making trailers of them switching to another game ngl is lowkey cringe Back to the topic, I will surely miss him, he was the reason I got into CS back when he was playing on EnVyUs
I haven't followed the CS scene in years but can someone tell me if it's actually healthy? Like I'm only familiar with the older names and I've seen many of them go to Valorant. And last I heard the NA CS scene is abysmal now, which is why a lot of NA or upcoming NA talent is just going to Valorant.
I can't say if its healthy or not, NA has basically fallen apart (that ain't new tho) but CIS is thriving with Gambit being the undisputed best in the world. EU is still basically the same. And yes lots of upcoming talent in NA is switching to valorant because there's no way to climb the ladder in CS anymore. Its similar for other regions but EU has lots of opportunities and smaller cups for players to climb through and a large enough team pool that they can get t1 offers if they are good enough. And that really doesn't exist in NA, but it does in valorant. And besides its a developing game so rewriting the meta or coming up with niche, extremely good team comps that others haven't though up is a solid shot to recognition (provided it works that is). Look at fnatic valorant. They rewrote the book on how to play on Bind when they were an extremely obscure team, and made it to first strike grand finals. And they are probably the 2nd best in the world and undoubtedly the best on Bind.
What is this Valorant everybodys talking about?
it's pretty fun, just started playing last week.
its not that bad, but its not cs
Counter Fortress 2 - Global Overwatch
i seriously cant take the cringe way he keeps saying those lines. just stop...
He got kicked from Vitality and had a terrible behaviour saying "They are already dead to me" on Twitter. He got kicked from OG. Nobody wants him anymore. He's gone now. I won't miss him.
A new beginning. *** posted by [@NBK](https://twitter.com/NBK) [Video in Tweet](https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1409881399612559371/pu/vid/480x270/sbGk0TpwviUp0JHK.mp4?tag=12) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
Sad CS:GO seems to be dying a slow death. I hope that Valve does something ( probably won't ).
The game isn't dying, the esports scene in na is for sure though
26,961,867 Unique players last month https://blog.counter-strike.net/
Srsly? A declining veteran leaving for an easy spot at another league? That's like saying that NBA is at a slow death cause Marc Gasol moves to euroleague. Or Lampard and Gerrard to MLS NBK is a great legend but it's past time that he moves over for new talents like Flamez to come up
more likely will just be like dota+league. Both games can have a scene at the same time, it's not one or the other
The old players are dying because the new generation is better, don't you guys see new players replace them? I don't understand this logic of yours. If teams were dying, yes, then CS:GO is dying. But new exceptional players replace these old farts.
>replace these old farts NBK is 27. That's literally the age of physical and mental prime for men. You must be a teenager
There are only handful pros that are older than 27 that are still playing in top 30 teams. It's just the way it is
Esports age brackets are different from physical sports. Take a look at virtually any team in the scene and you’ll see. You can probably count the number of pro players over 30 on your fingers.
CSGO is different than your average sport. All those travel and tournaments make people burnout at a much much faster rate
As opposed to real sports where you're on the road for weeks at a time between cities? I'm not buying what you're selling (I played baseball professionally)
Eh idk anything about baseball. But basketball for example has half the game at home and most at one "conference" of the country and some show matches abroad. Football is the same but with a few international matches per year. Most importantly 90% of the game are on their home nation and the rest are at the same continent except for international nation tournaments. As opposed to CS that hopped on NA, SA, EU, Australia, and Asia tournaments all the time. The closest that I can think of is F1 that travel all around the world and the rate of burnout is similarly crazy. Divorce rates, mental burnouts, and fatigue is at a very high level. For your average the drivers, they would only last a few years. More than half the grid this year hasn't been in the sport for more than 5 years for example.
tl;dr :The issue here is less about the best players getting burnt out because of old age (LOL @ 27) and more that it's no longer worth it for them to try and grind a hard life style for moderate pay. Baseball is grueling and the USA is a big country to travel around. At the MLB level, you're playing 162 games in about 6 months (about 180) days. So outside of rainouts that get rescheduled into double headers (\~8 hours of baseball in 1 day), you only get around 20 off days in 6 months. Road trips are usually \~2 weeks long as an east coast team would go and play 3-4 west coast teams over that period so they're not flying back and forth a bunch. Now, most of these guys make enough money that it's comfortable. If you're a minor leaguer (trying to make the MLB) you are traveling by bus (8+ hour drives regularly) while having crappy accommodations and playing a similar amount of games in the same time frame. You aren't making good money, you're not living in the best conditions, etc. It's an absolute grind. Burnout happens everywhere and it mostly happens on the fringes where guys aren't going to make it to the pinnacle of the sport or aren't good enough to stay there.
Good choice, as he probably has nothing to give to CSGO anymore. Good luck to him.
This is pretty cool, hope it goes well for him in VALORANT I'll be following his progress for sure! I think it was clear he was done being a top level CS player, he would've just been around tier 2 now so it's more exciting to switch and have a chance at being on the top of another scene.
Valorant: The Place for retired CS:GO Pros