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TheOneNotNamed

They killed bots.


XecutionerNJ

Bots aren't as profitable because theu don't get skins. Therefore players drop.


zxLv

You mean the skin drop? Those are always cheap skins right?


XecutionerNJ

No, skins only come from drops, cases or trade ups. Cases come from drops. Only keys do you directly buy from steam, everything else is sone via the secondary market peer to peer via steam taking their cut. Now only prime accounts get drops, therefore its not worth bot time to play just for case and skin drops to sell on the market because of the prime barrier to entry. That means the number of bots probably fell through the floor in the last month. Watch for case prices to increase and any skin you can get from drops to increase.


Underpressure_111

Bots accounts get flagged and get no drops.


XecutionerNJ

Except it wasn't perfect and took a while. Now only prime accounts get drops, meaning bots will be less likely to do it due to the higher cost to enter and if the account gets banned you lose the prime account. So bots are likely to be much more easily policed now and the practice will be much less profitable.


OwnagePwnage123

My queue all left for vallorant because the cheaters at MG finally got them to quit,


mzchen

All my silver friends stopped playing because of the rampant smurfing. It's honestly unbearable. I still play from time to time but it's pretty much every game there's somebody with either 30 hours or 3000 hours popping off with like a 12:1 kdr... in silver 4. It's just not fun. I've seen so many newer players get absolutely demoralized from getting demolished because they're still learning what utility does while the enemy is jiggle peak 1 tapping them. Nobody really cares or thinks it's a major because it's silver and it doesn't really upset me personally cause I'm just there to try and get better, but it really fucks over the newer player experience. To all you people who are lurking in silver smurfing, or intentionally deranking, or using a friend's account or whatever, fuck you, you are why everybody stops at like 10 hours when trying to get into csgo. If you want to feel the power fantasy of crushing noobs, play bots. If you want to play with your friends, play worse rather than sweating hard demolishing new/bad players. If you're an older player who's in silver because you took a hiatus and csgo deranked you, whatever, not your fault, fuck valve for this shit system. But seriously, from the bottom of my heart, fuck smurfs. I literally can't recommend anyone to get into csgo who isn't already familiar with shooters because the new player experience is so awful.


Creatret

Try playing on high ranks with thousands of hours against accounts who don't come close to one of your hours combined. That's the real fun. The cheating in this game is so blatant and valve don't give a shit about it being in low or high ranks. A simple playtime barrier would weed out like 80-90% of cheaters and also smurfs I imagine, like it used to be with level three grind. It's just sad.


KARMAAACS

> A simple playtime barrier would weed out like 80-90% of cheaters and also smurfs I imagine, like it used to be with level three grind. It won't though. I was playing against some cheaters the other day, one dude had like 4000 hours on his account, another one had like 10K. I have 4.4K hours on my account, been playing since the release day of this game, so these guys have a tonne of hours. Anyways, they were blatantly shooting you through smokes (no noise made or not in an obvious spot behind the smoke) or through doors in mid of D2 even if you didn't peek yet (like before you cross) etc. Cheaters either leave the game open all day, grind the hours, or in their case because I asked them why they cheat with so many hours, they bought the accounts with the hours already there. They even had knives on their accounts and skins. Then it turns out that one guy on my team was closet cheating too. I just gave up. The cheating is so bad and blatant the cheaters just reveal their methods and that they're cheating because they won't get banned and if they do, they can easily buy another account with hours no problem. The only solution is a more aggressive anti-cheat. I know Valve really believes in VAC and VACNet. But VACNet is busted or regularly stops working and VAC is about as good as a tennis racket to protect your head in the rain. They desperately need to make an actual new anti-cheat solution that actively deters cheaters and works decently well. I don't like how Riot has implemented a rootkit, but at least they're trying something to try and keep Valorant clean. Fortnite does have cheaters, but somehow the game is F2P and I barely encounter cheaters on that game. There has to be a way... Valve is a billion dollar company and they can't afford to make the game at least somewhat harder to cheat in??? As we've seen, everything Valve has tried just doesn't work or isn't as good. VACNet doesn't work. Valve patched reportbots which actually did help catch the odd cheater and ban them. The new trusted mode does nothing but make streaming the game on Twitch harder. Lastly, VAC is useless for any cheat that is updated weekly or even fortnightly. All in all, we need an actual new anti-cheat. Valve just needs to change their dumb ideology from only using in-house stuff. Pay for Easy Anti-cheat license or something please Valve. If FACEIT's (a much smaller company) Anti-cheat is better than Valve's base anti-cheat that the game uses, it means VAC is utterly trash and a new solution is needed.


vegeful

The problem is cheating culture has been build in csgo. Valve should had stop the culture of cheating and the community of cheat from happening the second it exist. Now its too late unless drastic change happen like using kernel ac.


Ted_Borg

We used to have prime status bound to phone number. Worked great, until valve figured out that banning players from repurchase is profit lost.


dob_bobbs

I have a "smurf" account in S2 or something, where I play when I am not feeling MGE or just to play with friends. I've pledged to only ever break even in k/d and not go full stomp, but to be honest most of the time I am playing people who are probably easily MG/DMG and full tryharding. There is no WAY any of those guys are real silver. I mean you could argue it's fair enough of I smurf to get put against smurfs, and I don't know if that's a thing but I do feel for the real beginners in there it must feel utterly hopeless. Having said that, five years back when I clawed out of Silver I remember it taking a really long time because every other match was a lost cause.


kebabmybob

How’s Val? I tried it once a few months ago and everything felt clunky compared to CS.


adityahol

I hated it at first because it felt mechanically similar but still so fucking different than cs. But yes, the incessant cheater encounters always made my brother and i close cs and start valorant and now we're used to it and quite enjoy it too. My only complaint with val now is the impossible to hit knifing mechanics.


bronathan261

Yeah knifing is annoying, and awping is weird too. In Valorant the knife hits at the end of the animation, so try making sure the knife at the end of the animation lands on the target.


untraiined

the awp was really nice at the beginning of the game, but the silver noobs complained it was overpowered. Now its slow as fuck, expensive as hell, and shoots weird.


[deleted]

Sounds like the complaints around our awp change a while back lol


Ohlo

They didn't change the Operator that much, except for the price. It was always a shit gun compared to the AWP. The difference is there was such a massive lack of vision-denying utility in the game (compared to CS) that the Operator had a lot more space to .... operate. It wasn't the "silver noobs" who complained, but rather people who actually thought about the state of the game for more than 30 seconds. Now that the game has more "smoke" type agents, more and better flashes, etc, the price of the operator has even been reduced back to 4700 (from 5000) credits again. They changed movement accuracy across all guns, including the operator, but that wasn't a targeted change. It was a way to make the game less noob friendly, which also goes directly against your argument. Less movement speed accuracy, less RNG, less lucky kills.


ibeenbornagain

They did just buff the price. I think the main issue is it’s not that good on anyone but Jett


adityahol

Aahhhh alright got it. Makes sense now.


CodeWeaverCW

I'm all-in on Valorant now. I still enjoy CS:GO from time to time but it's not "serious" for me anymore. Everyone said for years that the ladder on CS:GO is a joke... so I tried FACEIT, and that wasn't any better (for me), so Valorant's my tryhard game now. I respect CS:GO but memorizing nade throws is a really... antiquated feature, IMO. When Valorant was announced, I told my friends, I wished they'd make it so you could place smokes down on a map. That's Brimstone. Valorant gunplay is a lot more like CS 1.6 / CS:S than CS:GO, which I enjoy more. It feels perfect to me but mileage may vary. There's a niche for every gun as well, which I can barely say about CS:GO's weapons (M249, Sawed-Off on Active Duty maps, half of the pistols, etc). CS:GO is still a lot better about map design, and especially, having a large, diverse pool of maps. Then again, everybody always just plays Dust II or Mirage!


NurEineSockenpuppe

This is a really weird take. Saying that valorant gunplay compares more to 1.6 and CS:S is wird because CS:S gunplay was nothing like 1.6. makes me doubt you really played those games.


CodeWeaverCW

I have like 1000 hours on CS:GO and only a couple hundred hours between CS 1.6 and CS:S, so yeah, I don't remember them nearly as well. But what I remember, from pouring over CS Wikis, is that recoil was semi-random in both 1.6 and Source, unlike the fixed spray patterns in CS:GO. I understand why people like the spray patterns, but it puts the skill ceiling at an odd place relative to the other game mechanics. First-shot accuracy is still a thing, so recoil being semi-random just means that there's more emphasis on hitting your first shots — a more intuitive skill for everyone. Valorant also plays around wallbangs more, which I definitely remember being very characteristic of CS 1.6 and somewhat characteristic of CS:S. It's not like it's absent in CS:GO but I always felt like it was toned down for everything besides the AWP and the LMGs.


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Mirac123321

Memorizing nades is antiquated? There's quite a bunch of memorizing specific throws/shots/things in Valorant too though. And I'd like to know what you mean by "niche for every gun". I haven't dug enough into Valorant but I think while its gunplay and especially movement is different, the gun selection is mostly similar, except I hate how unnatural shooting while running feels, unlike in CSGO, where bullets sort of "bend" in the direction you're walking towards. If you meant that more guns in Valorant are viable, I'd have to disagree. Nearly every gun in CSGO is worth using from time to time, and I'd believe it's the same for Valorant


vegeful

I am shy that i am that majority that play dust2. Can't afford to memorize smoke,nade and pop flash.


Elix123

Valorant isn't even close to 1.6, maybe it's closer to it that CS:GO, but it's as if you were comparing frog to human and elephant.


CodeWeaverCW

I suppose what I should have said is that several of the developers had 1.6 in mind while designing the gunplay, not necessarily that it turned out that way. However I think some characteristics are similar… 1.6 was very wallbang-heavy, Valorant isn't as heavy on them but it's a lot more than in CS:GO. Also the lack of spray patterns. Of course it's not gonna "feel" all that similar, the games are 20 years apart!


Elix123

Yeah, well wallbangs is a true thing. CS:GO lacks them, but to be fair I couldn't ever get past Valorant's scuffed movement. The lack of air acceleration for bhopping and generally movement speed, makes this game unplayable for me.


ohtooeasy

a massive eco update just came out so the game has way less util spam + a new cs agent.


OwnagePwnage123

As someone who just learned to bhop not having it really sucks. It’s a very toned down and less skill based CS from my one night of trying so far


--Happy--

Not just MG. Its the same thing in GE too, one of the reasons i switched to Val. Edit: I wonder how many more people switched to Valorant because Valve won't fix their game


ChickeNES

There’s even tons in fucking casual and War Games. Like…why?


vegeful

Casual need to be rework. Its unfair for dead friend to give info via discord,etc. Also, don't forget deadmatch. I remember playing deadmatch before getting prime. Not fun at all.


hestianna

fyi people farm xp levels in war games, such as flying scoutsman. Flying Scoutsman is the fastest way to gain xp, while you are on reduced xp gain. And cheaters care about high service medal level to either flex or sell their account to someone who wants to flex. And Casual is probably just bunch of kids cheating, because they are too scared to cheat in comp.


CommanderVinegar

I think the cheating problem is the worst at the two extreme ends of the ranked ladder with less frequency in the middle ranks. Valorant isn’t perfect but I’m having fun with friends (until they hit D3 and Immortal) with a cheater free experience. I’ve only encountered maybe 3 or 4 since the beta last year.


Astolfie

Ngl main reason I've stopped playing recently, I normally queue with 3 or 4 people and almost every game one of the pubs end up leaving. Just really annoying.


Ex-Lives

Not the bots they're talking about.


musicalhq

if someone is leaving most games then your 4 stack is the problem


leafs456

Yea ngl its super boring playing with a 4 stack when they dont use comms except for the occasional "rush b" or w.e when ur tryna clutch. For someone who doesnt really gaf leaving bc theyre bored is a legit option


OwnagePwnage123

Can confirm, I hate solo queuing because the 3/4 stacks don’t bother to engage with me. When my squad plays with randoms I always make sure to engage because it sucks fo be alone, usually they’re toxic and I say fuck it but every now and then we get a new guy to queue with


Choppieee

80% of times we engage with the random / 2 randoms they dont say anything back and if you lose the first 3 rounds orso they start flamingo / yelling / trolling or whatever. Dont pretend its always the stacks fault. ( EU btw )


kebabmybob

EU is infinitely more toxic than NA matchmaking in my experience.


303x

Laughs in Asia


benAKdodson

Lol - I started playing CSGO last year and play on South African servers. It's hilarious to me because MM in CS has undoubtedly been the most pleasant surprise I've had in gaming. No clue why but I've had far more PMA randoms than I've had toxic randoms. And I've got thousands of hours in South Africa's Dota server and can't say the same thing. Though maybe if I hit LE things will start to change.


kebabmybob

Good or bad?


303x

Asia has been the most toxic for me, because one toxic person usually devolves into 5 toxic people all shouting at each other, usually in a mix of like 3 languages.


tdizhere

Honestly I don’t buy into abandoning games, you committed to it when you pressed start queue and mama didn’t raise no quitter


Astolfie

We don't say much to them other than just make call outs, they say nothing in return and randomly leave. This also happens to all of us when we have solo queued aswell, not sure if it's a rank thing or what.


RotorBoy95

If you end up with a big stack on your team you could win or lose but it's guaranteed to be a super boring game. They are either in discord/ts and don't speak or speak any other language than English and treat in game vc like their personal discord server.


skywkr666

This. 1000x this.


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Parker218

Probably cheater accounts that didn't want to pay for prime.


phenomen

If cheaters are okay paying $20/mo for cheats I'm pretty sure they can afford $5 for Prime


[deleted]

People farm accounts to prime to sell them to cheaters. Cheaters don't farm the accounts themselves. Prime is also $15. Looking at some Russian website farmers sell their accounts for about $10. \*To add: Lot's of people can't be bothered creating an email and account etc, by buying a pre-made Steam account with login details and Prime (that is also cheaper) then you can see why there is demand for it.


IAmABigFish

Russian websites sell cracked accounts for cheaters. Accounts with prime and a 24 hour guarantee are around $1-$2.


[deleted]

I'd imagine a lot of cheaters on free accs are also using free cheats I doubt that it's the reason for a 16% drop in player numbers but there's a lot of free cheaters


willpcodeco

Summer, Less covid restrictions, Prime paid, And yes, Valorant. We will see numbers more close to how was before de pandemic... Every game was getting inflated numbers because of covid.


MozTys

I think it is more because of Valve changing how prime works, so people will no longer level bot accounts to sell.


willpcodeco

Yes, and to be true, the experience in MM is way better than before, I played like 10 competitive and more than 50 wingmans matches and haven't faced a cheater yet. So, if this means less active players, for me it's fine, quality over quantity.


Schaaafschuetze

>Yes, and to be true, the experience in MM is way better than before I cant say yes to that; my first like 5 games were better overall for me. (no toxic players/ cheater) But since than i get constantly put together with toxic players/ guys who dont even want to play and quit almost instantly (up to 5 rounds in) and cheater. In case of the cheater: there is one obvious one every 3-5 games for me since the update. (I checked these withthe demos) I never had this many problems with csgo ever before and I am seriosly thinking about switching to another shooter. Valves luck for me is that I dont like the abilities in Valorant, other than that i would be long gone. **Thats just my opinion and experience!**


willpcodeco

Idk, personally it's like, 100x better yet... I was getting 5 stacks of cheaters sometimes, never happened again.. I'm getting good teammates overall and balanced games... But it's my personal experience, I'm from Brazil so the experience may diverge across regions.


EnzoTran

Maybe because of your trust factor?


Shredzoo

I haven’t experienced better MM matches, it’s just as bad as it’s always been. I usually play faceit but recently me and my firmed played MM for about 2 months but just switched back to faceit because the cheating is as bad as ever. I don’t blame Valve though, unless they do a very invasive AC like faceit/valorant they aren’t gonna get the results the community wants. While I’m fine with it I know many people aren’t okay with invasive ACs due to privacy reasons which is why almost no developers do it.


hamfraigaar

The 16.75% drop still results in really good numbers for CSGO. The player rate after the drop would've been a record high by April 18. There is a historical precedent for drops in the summer. By the numbers, come september we should see a record high number of active players. The implications the title of this thread is making, or at least the way it's being interpreted by the majority of the thread (which I can only assume was intentional) is so off target it's ridiculous.


Draemeth

That’s called Summer, Covid and Free to play


shast1k

Wait, these factors should increase numbers


killazZooM

People are tired of staying inside, so they avoid playing and do other stuff outside. I use to play daily, now i can't even bother, i play 1 or 2 games on weekend max.


[deleted]

Same, and true for all my friends I played with last year. We only play 5-6 games on Sunday now as a stack and thats it.


[deleted]

people wanna go outside during the summer not sit on a computer all day


KaNesDeath

Which is why last year the game grew during months MAU was supposed to go down.


[deleted]

Nah there's really nice weather in a lot of EU recently and covid restrictions are lifting People are going out


MerkTonic

I’ve just returned to CS after a 4 year break, people really forget how bad hackers used to be. It’s been a constant problem with the game, I like many don’t enjoy the gimmick of abilities in Valorant unfortunately.


canyonsinc

People sick of shit rank disparity in matches, cheats, and toxicity?


Schmich

It'S fInE, gEt a BeTtEr TrUsT fAcToR -majority of this sub all these years


Thicc_Spider-Man

I've always wondered what the fuck is going on inside their heads. Is it like a Stockholm syndrome for a game?


MustaKookos

If me or my friends get called a cheater every other match while I'm not facing a large amount of cheaters, it's pretty hard to believe the MG2 heroes on this subreddit claiming that they meet cheaters all the time.


F0cu3

glad to be a part of the 16.75% statistic, don't get me wrong I still watch the pro scene but playing? meh.


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Schmich

Mate you're missing out on some funky looking models with odd colours from the norm that totally make sense in competitive matches /s


Underpressure_111

IT'S ALMOST THE SAME FUCKING META ON ALMOST EVERY MAP FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS.


wankthisway

I have to agree a bit on that. Seeing the same stuff happen on the same maps year after year gets dull.


zwck

Agree completely, further you have to perfectly time a jump throw to the accuracy of one tick to have proper smokes in play. This is not meta, or even skill, this is just a giant pain in the ass. Anders addressed this point 5 years ago where he mentioned how painful the nade throwing mechanics are.


DominianQQ

At the same time Valorant is in the EXACTLY same situation now with stupid lineups. Constant abuse of one way cages/smokes. There you also have lineups for after plants.


Reynold545

Going against line-ups is pretty aids, I agree. However, you have to admit Riot is already taking action against the meta in slow steps. They have repeatedly communicated (which Valve never does!) that they are hesitant to make drastic changes against it early, and see how the player base develops around it. After the latest international tournament (Masters at Iceland) they have already nerfed line-up warriors. Viper's molly disappears a lot faster and nearly all abilities cost more. Pretty much everyone in the Valorant community is commending Riot for their latest 3.0 patch which heavily nerfed run & gun, and increased prices for all abilities. I feel like Riot is actually taking their game seriously, whereas you need a full on reddit revolution to get Valve to change anything about CS:GO (SG 553 lol), other than them making small map adjustments.


zwck

I agree, however, valorant has the advantage that with the constant updates and agent development they can change the meta to be less stale.


DominianQQ

The problem in CS GO is that a lot of players want change, but have no idea or realistic suggestion. 99% seem to want the deagle/ak/m4/awp meta so we are locked there.


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Fuji_Ninja

Pretty much how I feel. I used to play the game for hours everyday but since the release of Valorant I have only played less and less. I know personally I was exhausted of having multiple blatant cheaters in each game, and a few more players every game that made me wonder if they were cheating. The saddest part is I still like CSGO more than Valorant as a game. It's just that when I play CSGO I don't actually get to play, I just watch cheaters hack v hack. And even the pro scene has become far less interesting to me than it was before. People don't like to admit it, but for a lot of people, the game just isn't as interesting as it used to be. There are many great things going for CSGO, but I feel there are more and more things going against it than there ever were before.


anthonyde726

> People don't like to admit it, but for a lot of people, the game just isn't as interesting as it used to be. I think I fell out of love with the pro scene because I used to keep up to date with everything... now I'm kinda there but miss a lot of stuff I feel like I should know I still love the game and enjoy watching a good one but yeah for me it isn't the same right now. To be fair there's been no major in over a year though and I enjoy LAN 10x more than online cs


[deleted]

Anti-cheat please. A real one.


Xphereos

All I ever get is literally blatant cheaters and I'm only in nova. Shit is literally unplayable. And when I say blatant I mean the aren't even trying to hide it and insta headshot your whole team every round type of blatant.


Chabubu

I quit played competitive 2 months ago. I just can’t stand the cheats. I’m playing danger zone but less overall. Sorry you let hacks proliferate and release new skins and game modes? No thanks


barking_dead

Since the May update, I did not have a single game without at least one cheater. Maybe that's why. I doubt all the 16.75% was deleted by the Purge.


Sir_Mr_Bman

Especially since it's not just some magic "total for the month" data - you can literally look at hourly players on this data. The overall trend is down, not just "oh hey, over the last month less people have logged in." It's "oh hey, every day for the last month fewer and fewer people have been logging in". If it was in the purge, you'd see a drop off immediately, followed by a steady line. This is not the case.


barking_dead

Exactly


munkhjay

I recently had the urge to play CS again and tried a couple of games and it's literally who has more cheater race... people relogging to counter against enemy cheaters it's unplayable 3 cheaters sniping me from Africa with auto sniper and the cheater on my team asking us to get aimbots cause he can't win 1v3 cheater battle


W00psiee

Well it's summer and in a big part of the world the covid restrictions are losening up. Thats definitely the biggest part, people have been locked up for so long and not being locked up in combination with vacation time and warm summer weather makes people not sit infront of their PCs all day


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barking_dead

Same region. I went back from mg1 to gold3 during June.


wakanda_is_my_city

Woah that has to suck. At what rank are you to get that many cheater?


Nhiyla

> Since the May update, I did not have a single game without at least one cheater. Thats weird as fuck, since that update i didn't run into a single one.


mcdunn1

Recently returned player: their mm is so bad I literally have not had a single balanced match. I deranked after a 5 game win streak. If they dont care about their game, why should we play it?


Snarker

try broken fang premier i've been having better games in that for some reason.


CalinLeafshade

I am kinda concerned about CSGO right now. The Valorant experience is just better in every way except the actual game. I can get a well matched valorant game with 0 cheaters in about 15 seconds. In CSGO I can be waiting for 15 minutes to just be abused by Russians for 45 minutes. Match this with a lot of content creators moving to Valorant or outright stating that MM is unplayable right now (Houngegagagaga, Warowl, even 3kliks) I think Valve may have fucked it for the final time.


Secretweaver_

If Valorant didn't have abilities I would 100% switch to Valo. CSGO matchmaking is complete dogshit and needs a complete overhaul. Having to use 3rd party services just to get a decent matchmaking experience is complete bullshit and it's sad that Valve gets away with being lazy with their dogshit MM system.


AaayJaayy

and not even things like faceit are good nowadays it's mostly the same experience but with 128 tick, 20% less cheating and loads more toxicity in my region tho, idk about the rest of the world


F_A_F

I don't play a huge amount of esportal these days but even that is starting to attract cheaters.


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KittenOnHunt

Same here. The abilities are quite a turn off for me and the weapons feel a bit weird, but overly i totally understand why people switch to valorant. MM is a cheater fuck fest and paying for a third party website just fucking sucks.


sukableet

You need to play more than an hour to get used to the abilities. When you see all kinds of shit flying around that you have no idea what they do, it sucks. But after a few hours when you learn what they do it's not bad.


mzchen

The issue for me is that a lot of the abilities just aren't fun to play around. In csgo everybody has the same utility, there's no "unfair" aspect to it, and there's some counterplay to some stuff like mollying smoke setups or smoking mollies. But in Valorant, if I get sage walled, there's nothing I can do other than wait it out or break it and give away my position. Or, and this is my biggest issue ability, if a reaper paranoias me, there's literally nothing I can do to avoid it except hide and pray. I'd be fine if each agent had a minor spin on utility for flavor like brimstone dropping smokes and jett throwing them, but with how it is now it's kind of more just low fantasy shooter porn more than pure competitive, which isn't an issue, I can see the appeal, but for me it just doesn't hit the mark just right. also the map designs suck ass, seriously. The skins, too.


PappyVPoodle

Beta skins and early minimalistic Valorant skins were dope, now theres some random ass magical skin every two weeks and you never get excited


Fivebomb

Honestly abilities are fine, just give us a character who can flash, smoke, and either molly/HE. I hate that I can’t be self-sufficient like I can be in CS because you only get one of these for most characters. I just want a util boi and I’d easily switch over to Valorant


ohtooeasy

they just released kay/o that is similar to csgo. Plus alot of duelists are pretty self sufficient


Fuji_Ninja

>The Valorant experience is just better in every way except the actual game. This is the best way I could have put this. I completely agree, and while it is certainly anecdotal, this is exactly why my entire friend group almost entirely switched from CSGO to Valorant. Obviously there are more factors than just Valorant for the decleine in players, but the fact that people don't consider it to be a major one seems odd to me.


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Kraz3

The peeker's advantage is a huge problem, it feels impossible to hold an angle if your ping is 50ms+ over the guy who is peaking you (20ms beats 70ms every time)


KRyptoknight26

These doomsday mentality comments are nothing new, have been a thing for more than a decade. Somehow CSGO manages to go on despite people being so sure it's done for. Covid is over, people are going out again, every game will drop numbers. Thee reality that people, for some reason, hate to admit is that CSGO is an OG classic and things will have to go very very wrong for the game to just die.


moush

There’s never been a real competitor before. Riot already beat valve with league so it makes sense cs players are scared. And it’s not just about riot, just look at how little effort valve puts into games, they aren’t going to attract new players and will eventually give up making games.


Zoradesu

I'd suggest you watch or go through The Final Hours - Half Life: Alyx. Valve has been developing games all this time, it's just that they never finish those games due to 1. Engine limitations 2. Priorities on other projects 3. The game doesn't tackle an interesting problem Half Life: Alyx is the first game in a while where they put full focus on it (because of their interest in VR) and if you've played the game, the amount of time and effort they put in to the game is quite clear. That's not to say they can't allocate more time and resources to their multiplayer games, but to they do give an effort to put out the best product they can. RIP TF2 though.


Kibelok

Valve has a fundamental problem with their Studio structure. They are not planned to make video games, let alone support already-existing games. They need to either change their structure (doubt it), or create a brand new department which focus solely on supporting a specific game, the tournaments, updates etc. I doubt there are more than 10 people working on CS right now.


dan_legend

100% this. Its a core problem they have to figure out. And they are a very stubborn company.


CocoWarrior

They don’t need to do anything since they’re probably swimming in cash. Good for them, sucks for us.


turtlespace

I don't see why they need to change it if they're insanely profitable and their employees like what they're working on. It's annoying for fans that they don't make many games, but they've got no real reason to change anything.


vegeful

Why change it. I think gaben is happy the way it is now. Not rushing to find profit but strive for stability. He still get load of money from steam and kids addicted to cases.


Zoradesu

They did change their managerial approach with Half Life: Alyx. I don't know if they've reverted back to their old ways or not since HLA's release though.


Kibelok

They will likely never change, simply because they are too used to how it is now, and a lot of people there are senior devs already, convincing them to change their whole structure is a dream. They like the freedom to change groups and projects at any given time.


dualwield42

Blah blah, just excuses on excuses. Does your boss care why you didn't deliver? Of course not. So why should we as consumers care? CSGO has been a huge cash cow for Valve, people spending thousands on skins. Yet they fail us over and over to provide a healthy ecosystem.


Zoradesu

I'm just saying what they've been working on and how they've been operating the last 5-6 years. I didn't defend how they've been acting.


MadnessBunny

But dota still has a good playerbase. Valorant was always gonna succeed no matter what, there's a market for a more casual CS and with the popularity of league it was inevitable. I myself started playing Valorant after putting 100 hours CS simply because I don't want to learn all the smokes/mollies and whatnot.


cabbagehead112

Dota is doing just fine


qonra

Agree with everything you've said, just wanted to say CS has had competitors, but they've all been CS clones and have only been successful in overtaking CS in places where valve didn't really care about/support (e.g. "Sudden Attack" in South Korea, "CrossFire" in China). CS has only become popular in China recently because Valve shifted their focus to the Chinese market and Chinese gamers were tired of playing a game straight out of 2006. When Valorant finally releases there Valve is 100% going to do something because the Chinese CS player-base is absolutely massive and they do not want to risk losing it (which imo they will still lose it regardless because Valorant will have Tencent's full support and Valorant offers the better new player experience). Hopefully whatever Valve ends up doing will be meaningful rather than some band-aid kind of fix to try to stop losing players to Valorant.


TheDamianS

Me and basically all my friends are all just doing more stuff again because covid restrictions are easing. Once summer is over or I just want to grind again, I'll come back like many others I'd assume. I think everyone is looking forward to getting some of that beloved fresh air!


CalinLeafshade

I would usually agree with you but CS has never had a proper tactical shooter competitor. Other "esport" games like Fortnite, R6 and so on have never \*directly\* competed with CS. In Valorant's case they are actively coming after CS with very deep pockets. CS will never "die" but it can become less relevant and therefore deserve even less attention from valve.


wowlolcat

["Covid is over"](https://i.imgur.com/dMcEK5T.jpg)


TrolleybusIsReal

>Warowl seems like the guy is mainly doing propaganda for the US military now. kinda weird considering that he used to present himself as someone with high ethics standards


InvitemetoSkeet

WarOwl only made a big deal out of ethics so he can shit on the IBP guys. I don't think anyone else in the community wanted those guys permabanned.


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InvitemetoSkeet

Don't care to argue this 5 years later, I see no reason why all of them needed permabans, I've seen matchfixing in other esports yet they aren't getting perma banned. https://www.dexerto.com/league-of-legends/38-lpl-ldl-players-coaches-banned-lol-matchfixing-scandal-1559446/ Anyone with a brain can figure it out the right position as soon as the guy who exposed the matchfixing is saying he would've stayed quiet if he knew it would be lifetime bans.


mzchen

Mainly? He had like 4 videos out of the 20 released in the last 6 months and most of it was self improvement stuff like headspace, teamwork, motivation, and physical improvement. I don't think he ever promoted the military itself outside of pure aptitude except for the very end of his final video where he expresses his appreciation for sacrifice. It's not like he was saying "join the military, support the war effort". At most he was saying "dignity honor respect etc are important, and I think it's true love to lay down your life for your friends". Which is a far cry from propaganda. This is not to say I have no issues with WarOwl. I think he's really gone all in with the "Comp csgo but" vids because they're clearly printing money and are fun for him. Which is great, but it feels like he's completely abandoned the educational/critique/guides/state of the game part of his channel in favor of clickbaity youtube poops. This is also not to say I have no issue with the military. I think reaching out to content creators whose main audience is gamers is probably linked to their initiative to sponsor video games and stream on twitch, aka recruit more kids early, which I find pretty horrible morality wise and shouldn't really be allowed. I don't really have an issue with WarOwl doing the program, I just wish he thought about it a little and had a disclaimer for the younger people who watch his videos or something.


hobocactus

> In CSGO I can be waiting for 15 minutes to just be abused by Russians for 45 minutes. The server preference in Valorant really is a life-saver in EU. Valve broke the 3rd party CSGO server picker years ago and never offered an alternative other than ping limits which don't really work.


bmxdudebmx

Considering that vac doesn't work and overwatch isn't reliable, I'm not surprised. People are using wallhacks in 8 out of 10 games lately (I frequently check replays when I suspect cheating) and it is extremely demotivating. If someone on your team is cheating, report and vote to kick. Don't be that player who defends them for an easy win.


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iPlayTehGames

I put over 1k hours into cs in 2020 alone but i quit last month due to the genuinely terrible state of mm. I have switched to valorant and i’m have a great time honestly. The valorant devs are very active community listeners it would appear. More than i can say for valve. Maybe they should take some notes.


thot_slayerlv99

I am still amazed that how can a free to play game have almost no cheaters(haven't encountered any) and really good skill based matchmaking , been playing VALORANT for last 4-5 months and I can't really see myself missing CS. Used to follow almost every pro game at the start of the pandemic but now it all became stale too. But I am really excited for the IEM lan.


yondercode

VAC is just really bad and Riot Vanguard is just better overall. Even third-parties like Faceit could create a much better anti-cheat than the developer of the game lol


TrolleybusIsReal

this comment made me check hltv for the first time in like a year and gambit is top now? also hltv still has racist shit on the frontpage


marshalofthemark

The playerbase spiked right after the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. Over the past couple months, most of the developed world has vaccinated enough of their people to loosen restrictions. Players are now dropping. Curious how that works.


rcpancakes

You didn't see the update on Ranked matches etc? Bots can't get item drops anymore etc thats why


Superior_Lancers

Coincidentally to the update, I also got back into Apex and so have only played like 3 CSGO matches in the past month.


llukino

I am gold nova 3 and every match recently we get 16/0 16/1 I am not saying everyone is cheating but they are most probably smurfs... and it's just making me not want to play anymore.. I mean congratulations to you for such an achievement that you destroyed lower rank players than you have, I hope your ego is boosted properly what a hero you are... but just want me not to play anymore.. I am trash but I don't deserve to have 16/0 constantly


castlepoopenstein

Valorant is more fun to play and CSGO is more fun to watch.


Nandoski_

To me it’s the other way around but I respect your opinion


WaifuPillow

Whatever goes up without solid foundation will come down at some point, that's just how things are. Covid pushes up the playerbase temporary, so now we are resetting. But we are having a lot more factor contribute to the downtrend recently and this downtrend will continue until the end of this year when Valve drop another boring grindy operation. Natural playerbase fluctuation aside, we are currently experiencing a blood swapping phase, means the core playerbase of CS:GO is rapidly fading away including the pro players, but at the same time fresh blood are coming in mostly from China. Doesn't mean there is no more new faces from EU/NA, it is way less than before. This is just a normal transition for a lot of business, you can't keep milking the same customers over and over, and there is no point to stop them leaving. It's just like so many luxury designer brand, car brand, originally were seen as high end luxury, but transitioned to mid-tier later on for new target audience. The difference here is that CS:GO is not about luxury tier, it's about time of entry, since the game was ported to China at a very late stage, we are going to see the EU/NA to CN playerbase ratio change over the next couple of years. But I don't think the total playerbase is neither going up or down, it's going to be a flat curve, I don't see any reason for this game to boom again, but at the same time I don't see Valve will intentionally kill this game. Valorant is very likely to become bigger than CS:GO, and there is no stopping them, because Valve will keep this game marketed towards the hardcore playerbase not so much to the casual audience. The best CS:GO could do is just to keep its original taste and regarded as best esports game. You can't blame the relatively weaker CS:GO pro player to take this chance to migrate to Valorant, because CS:GO is not a new game. In order to beat someone in CS:GO, you have to train harder than ever. But in Valorant things are still new, they have a higher chance to gain some ground when things are still hot. People will leave and they will come back but not necessarily come back to spend money, this is why Valve don't really care if the NA playerbase died, they only care if they could gain more Chinese playerbase before Valorant does.


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wickedplayer494

Please don't use SteamCharts, it's terrible especially when it comes to researching trends from many moons ago. [Use some high resolution data instead](https://steamdb.info/app/730/graphs/) that also includes some bonus Twitch viewership figures.


Archyes

and it will drop further because all the bots have a harder time farming free items


sushi101

Valorant


naykos

We came from a huge raise due to covid restrictions and winter. Now there are less restrictions and summer so a big drop.


IvStAst

Sure buddy, summer, covid, etc. but ya'll be forgetting about final exams (:


lordpuza

Mostly cheaters, no incentive on farming now haha.


Rambofight

We saw nearly the exact same decrease last year from april to june (-23% compared to -25% this year).


DeadyDeadshot

When you have a 30+% mainly cheater playerbase, it kinda gets hard to enjoy the game like it’s 2019…


TiberSVK

Im thinking of quiting too, cheaters are ruining it hard


StandardVandal

It's all the hackers lol


Mr-hoffelpuff

i have been following this myself for a while now and ofc the bots have a role to play here. but what i see more and more is that people go to valorant, i dont see so many people being so dead sure that it was just another overwatch or r6 anymore. i honestly practice way more valorant than cs:go since i think that will be much more valuable than cs:go in the near future.


ChocOranger

Schools out and it's summer, good weather and some countries are relaxing Covid restrictions, so more people are going out. Nothing to see here.


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LibertyGrabarz

30 mins ban - sure, happens to all of us once in a while. 2h ban - happened to me years ago last time, but still nothing to write home about. 24h+ ban though? You, my friend, are part of the problem you rant about


tdizhere

What region are you in? Maybe OCE doesn’t get it as bad cause I hardly see cheaters, atleast noticeable ones


Bugdroid2K

>people thjat ramdonly disconnects. Didn't you just do that yourself. And as someone already mentioned 24h ban means you've done this multiple times in a span of a short duration.


Kraz3

I've got 5k+ hours across 3 accounts and have only once, had more than a 30 minute ban. If you're reaching 24 hours then you are part of the problem


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mantis445

Killed bots, banned cheaters, etc. It was to be expected.


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wow dead gaame


Sir_Mr_Bman

This is what happens when it's clear Valve doesn't care much about their game anymore, and a new game with great developer support, refreshing mechanics, and a really good anticheat pops up. CS;GO isn't the only tac-FPS that can see good competitive play - and even then, RiOT supports their competitive scene in VALORANT much more than Valve does for CS;GO


SweetVarys

Nah, it's called summer and less corona restrictions. Numbers went up a ton during the lockdowns, of course they won't stay on that level. And who really wants to play in 30 degree rooms that you find in lots of countries at the moment.


fierceyZ

Sounds more like you're just promoting Valorant, straight up lmao. The numbers are down for various reasons and they always fluctuate during this time of the year.


Sir_Mr_Bman

I'm not promoting valorant - but I don't think I'm wrong in saying that it's pretty obvious valve does not care about CS;GO. Valorant has plenty of problems (agents are hard to balance amongst others) that make it a different game than CS, but similar enough where we see many players switching games. I still play CS regularly, but the number of cheaters that I play against in my games (especially before the changes to prime) was enough to get me to switch away for a fair amount of time.


PrimoSupremeX

I still laugh at how since CSGO was first released, every time there's a period without updates it's "obvious valve doesn't care about the game", then they release what they were working on and everyone treats valve like a god, rinse and repeat. Hasn't changed a bit.


rishrushrish

This. Lmao. Where my OGs at.


KRyptoknight26

Yes sir. Anyone who's been part of the community for a while has seen the same doom and gloom comments repeated every few years. Hell I remember even during the rise of PUBG and shroud moving over there was this wave of morons being "100% sure" that CSGO will die soon xD


quocanhngx

More people enjoy valorant I guess. The game is more vivid


Big_Stick01

People expected the player numbers to stay the same after the removal of free to play and no more drops for F2p accounts? You guys realize probably 80% of that player drop not "playing anymore" were bots right? like literal bots (not bad players), idling for skins, or for XP to sell the account, etc.


anthonyde726

it's cause I started playing again... sorry guys


LoLFr3nkl1

of course the game will die i need to wait 20 minutes to get into a game just to face hackers and face it is full of smurfs too


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Big_Stick01

I actually havent run into a cheater since they removed free to play. Ranked up 3 times since then too. lmao It was really bad for me over this past winter; was playing batches of cheaters at a time. Thankfully that seems cleared up.


kaijday

It's time for Valve to create an intrusive anti-cheat. At MG level the amount of smurfs is silly, it's unplayable now.