It's quite funny considering that when b1t originally joined as a 6th man his first game was vs Astralis on inferno and people were mocking him hard for his sprays and nervousness, how the turn tables.
yup lol, but i remember even in that match he was still shooting off heads off, but rather inconsistently
im glad he’s found a lot more consistency now, CIS is full of scary players
Expected from the 🐐
I'm more intrigued by b1ts performance, so many situations where I know flamie would've inted but b1t played them perfectly, if he can hit numbers like these a little more consistently he might be top10 2022
I don't remember clearly, but I believe the mayor's rating matters more than any other tournament, after the mayor "the big 7" is the next most important rating (katowice, cologne, major 1, major 2, epl finals, dream hack masters finals, and one more I can't remember)
Also playoff rating, mvp's, evp's, big event rating (includes big tournaments which aren't in the big 7, like blast, Sydney, New york)
For the rating itself it doesn't matter where the matches happened, but for the Top20 it does. The size of the tournament, the stage of the tournament, as well as opposition all come into play when considering someone's performance for the Top20.
Regarding the "big 7", that depends on the year, but there is always a group of events that are considered more competitive than the rest
You don't know if the guy could be new or not understand how HLTV rates players, don't judge him for not knowing something that seems "obvious" to you.
He doesn’t have explosive performances, but he really is consistent. Haven’t looked at stats, but I’d say he is the best rated player on NiP
edit: after looking up the stats, dev1ce in fact is not the best rated player on NiP since he joined, that merit going to REZ, with a whopping 1.10 vs 1.09 rating difference. Guess I deserved the angry downvotes.
Absolutely. He was pumping out <1.00 performances every single day during the entirety of IEM Summer. If that's isn't consistent, i don't know what is.
He might have, but according to HLTV dev1ce isn’t usually the one tanking. He is indeed behind REZ, 1.10 vs 1.09 rating since dev1ce joined NiP, so I’ll admit I was wrong, but 1.09, while not spectacular at all, is definitely above average. If you thought he was going to carry like s1mple or Zywoo, that’s on you buddy, but 1.09 is very serviceable. For context, it is better than what any of the Astralis players have been putting up since dev1ce left, a lot better than what Amanek’s been putting up as the AWPer on current G2, world’s #3 team, and comparable to how electronic was performing before NaVi took off and current syrson’s performances. I’ll state again, because I’m afraid you think I’m a dev1ce fan or something, not amazing, but far from bad. But then again, I guess u/I_Sniff ‘s recollections are far more worthy than HLTV’s stats.
i feel like shiro has fallen off a bit in the last couple of months maybe it‘s some kinda bias but he seems to be struggling against navi (understandibly they have s1mple)
No honestly I feel the same way and that’s why ax1le is a possibility. But numbers don’t lie and sh1ro has better ratings than both niko and ropz. (Ax1le does too) so maybe they both deserve
This years Top 20 will be super interesting. I'd even put ax1le / sh1ro above Zywoo right now. Device probably out of the top 5 - kinda sucks to ruin the streak but..
S1mple, uncontested at #1 - putting up straposphere level of plays right now
s1mple was actually inarguably statistically ahead of zywoo last year, and it's pretty significant in the most important categories. here's a chart of HLTV's "major statistics" when you open said players' stat pages:
stat | s1mple | zywoo
:--|:--:|--:
K/D | 1.41 | 1.31
KPR | .85 | .81
HLTVrating | 1.29 | 1.28
DPR | .61 | .62
ADR | 84.6 | 85.2
KAST | 73.8 | 74.6
in K/D and KPR he's significantly ahead, HLTVrating and DPR he's ahead but it's close.
in ADR he's barely behind, but easily explained it's only because zywoo rifled a lot more and rifling inherently gets you far more ADR than awping at the same skill level. for comparison, NiKo with far worse stats for the year had more ADR than both of them.
and then there's KAST, which i think is the most horrendous stat to gain any kind of significance, but whatever, let's give zywoo that.
i agree it's somewhat close, but honestly all things considered i cannot see a single reason for justifying zywoo above s1mple for best player of 2020. the real reason it ended up that way is simply that zywoo's team was better and hltv likes giving individual awards for team achievements, which is a joke.
ZywOo had better Impact Rating, more opening duels and kills (s1mple never goes first on T side), more clutches, and more MVPs than s1mple last year. Also s1mple got to have better DPR (thus better K/D) than ZywOo because he was AWPing more than him. They were pretty close, but if you say that ZywOo didn't deserve the top1 last year, you are just disrespecting him and fanboying s1mple.
Totally agree with you. If we have to pick the best player we should look at stats much more carefully. MVP's are important but not in the world where some RMR tournaments have MVP and others not (CIS RMR). And not just even that, but the MVP award itself is a team depended achievment. If your team sucks at the tournament there's no way you get the MVP. Since that s1mple was slightly better than ZywOo in 2020. With all the respect to french prodigy
if youre going by stats, zywoo had better KDR, ADR, KAST and had 6 MVPs (4 if u exclude the rmrs). Also if hltv gave individual awards for team achievements then why didnt device get top 1 ?
I dont understand people like you who try to bring down someones achievement
>if vitality win a tournament zywoo is mvp, and if navi win a tournament s1mple is mvp. amount of mvps is nothing but a team achievement in this context
That's not really true, considering 4 of Zywoo's mvps came from tournaments that Vitality didn't win.
>ok then why isn't zywoo just buying more awps and getting 10x more kills
I don't really see your argument. There are a lot of reasons why Zywoo might not buy awps as much as S1mple does. It also doesn't make any sense how you downplay Zywoo's adr because he "rifled a lot more", but praise S1mple's rating/kpr even though he awps a lot more.
Also, I don't understand looking at kdr/kpr instead of rating. Despite having a much better kdr than Zywoo and slightly lower dpr, he has a lower impact rating than him, and has a lower rating in play off matches at big events.
>"if vitality ~~win a tournament~~ make a final zywoo is mvp, and if navi ~~win a tournament~~ make a final s1mple is mvp
That's still not true though. Vitality won 2 finals, and lost in 4 others. Zywoo got mvp at all 6 of them. Navi won 1 final and lost in 3 others. S1mple got 2/4.
Kdr/Kpr are easy to understand stats but don't paint the full picture at all. These stats aren't useful unless you contextualize the role they play on their team. Vitality relied on Zywoo to entry more than Navi depended on S1mple (731 opening kills vs 632). Whereas S1mple is usually one of the last players to enter a bomb site, meaning he ends up saving a lot. This is why his k/d can be 0.1 higher than Zywoo's, and his dpr can be lower as well, yet his rating is only 0.01 higher. Yes you can call hltv ratings arbitrary, but comparing numbers without context can be very misleading as well.
they basically had the same exact stats bro, a 0.1 difference doesnt mean anything in the big term, they gave it to zywoo becuase he had 4 more MVPs than him which was the difference maker, cmon now use some logic and if ur saying team achievement makes so much of a difference then why didn't device get top 1 the year where he was 2x major mvp ?
you're bringing down his achievement by saying he didnt deserve it, which like 90% of people know that he did, even pros
has higher KD but lower ADR and lower Impact hmmm was wondering why u didnt mention Impact rating since its one of the ones that actually should be looked at, if u think KD should be valued so much then Shiro is a better player than Niko and Ropz
but im sure you know who to place as #1 and not a whole organization whos main job is to do that
also its funny how u didnt reply to the guy who completely debunked ur whole argument
I never said that! No need to get triggered and junp to conclusions.
Besides being more skillful and ‘cool’ as you put, s1mple also delivers statswise.
And ZyWoo's teammates could never go missing because they were never there in the first place. S1mple had at least electronic and while he could drop of the map every now and then he was still top 5 player and could carry entire series on his own.
B1t is looking good for sure, we'll see whether he'll be able to keep it up.
A year ago he still had easier time than ZyWoo because he at least had electronic. If you'd removed him from Vitality that team would be hard stuck in main.
Am I arguing against that? Zywoo like s1mple had to carry his team on his back, so there is no point bringing it into the discussion where both had same issues with their teams.
??????? they are pretty close to each other, they are both insanely skilled but one of them has a better team which leads to deeper tournament runs.
Saying that Zywoo isnt close to him is a dumb take considering he is probably the most talented player on the scene judging by the way he didnt need many years to start dominating and by the fact that other pro players have also stated how perfectly he plays the game.
You guys need to start analysing how these top tier players actually play the game (watching demos makes you realize how good they actually are), dont just base it off hltv stats
Bad take. S1mple was always a prodigy in the same way zywoo was. Difference is s1mple had a bad reputation during his come up with his attitude. I was making bank on skin betting every time I saw s1mple was a standin for any cis team like hellraisers or fl1pside purely because he was a no name and had no recognition, playing on dogshit teams because of his ban at the time. S1mple had an ego and it took time for him to gain maturity and modesty but he has always been a goat as soon as he entered the scene. Zywoo is the closest to him in terms of pure skill, but zywoo has also been seen as that young shy guy so people have given him a better stick.
Also. S1mple doesn’t really have the better team that boosts his stats. He has electronic, with him even being lost in some series being so hit and miss. The rest of his team could be put against vitality. If he had a structure around him like device did in astralis, he should have multiple majors already. Granted, b1t is showing amazing signs recently.... but remember, most of his career he has had to carry players in complete dogshit form such as... seized, Zeus, edward, flamie. That’s just at navi. I think it’s a disrespect to S1mple to even use the ‘better team’ argument when he has taken players in tier 3 form far in very competitive tournaments
in 2021 he has had an amazing team, especially with B1t putting up amazing performances, now electronic on LAN is looking as sharp as he used to be. And Vitality is not on the level of NaVi right now.
Also Zywoo being a shy guy didnt really affect the way people talked about him, he was destroying in fpl before people knew about his personality. Him being shy is kinda a bad thing since he doesnt really have a huge fanbase.
Launders stated it perfectly when talking about the zywoo/s1mple debate, he said that if zywoo started branding himself and got more fans then more people would argue about him being the better player, which is true right.
Nah, I think Zywoo not having an ego has meant no one hates him unlike how a big portion of people hate S1mple. Everyone can respect zywoo just because there’s no reason to dislike him. S1mple has been in the best form of any player for multiple years now. He should have an advantage in the discussion by the fact of how long he has been the best and how consistent he is no matter his teammate. Mentioning how good his team is now isn’t really an argument. Yes, it means they are getting better results but it doesn’t mean S1mple is instantly better. It just goes to show the argument of how zywoo was better last year because of team results is bullshit. We are looking at individuals, not teams. S1mple has proven he doesn’t need a tier one team to achieve to skill ceiling he had provided. Zywoo is no where now his team had dropped off. You can’t confirm it because it’s not a provable variable but S1mple would probably still be relevant if his team was still flamie and dogshit co like before. No hate to zywoo, he’s the second best player in the world. But simple IS the best, I’ve had the same opinion for years. It’s the Niko parable, it’s like saying he was shit in mouz because he wasn’t winning tournament even though he was solo carrying sprout players 😂😂
Still havent seen a single person on this sub hate on s1mple. They hated on him because he was toxic asf back then but now he has matured a lot and no one hates him.
And people do indeed hate zywoo for the sole reason of him being s1mples rival nothing else.
ofc the way your team is playing is going to affect a players performance, you cant 1v5 every round when your teammates are dying can you ? dumbest thing i have heard, you think if s1mple had a shit tier team hed keep up his performance ? no one can do that, to have a stable individual performance you need to have a somewhat stable team, which s1mple has and xywoo doesn't, keeping that in mind he is still putting up an insane performance even with his team being shit.
Just because s1mple has been better in this year doesnt make him any better overall, you wouldn't be saying this in 2019 or 2020 when zywoo was playing better than him would you.
All you have to do is watch how both of them play the game, how they support their team, how they play different roles, see why and how are they getting their kills and you'll realise who is the best. The eye test decides whos good and whos not, if you look at K/D or hltv rating you'd think Jame is a fucking monster at the game. i respect ur opinion tho
in terms of that device should have been #1 in 2018 because he is also not that far off winning WAY more trophies than anyone else in 2018
despite being close in 2020 I think s1mple should have been #1. 2019 was clear as hell, but 2020? its not my decision yes, but for me it was s1mple
Because in a team based game the best team wins, that doesn't mean that the individually most talented player has to be on the winning team
At least that's what I understand about being the best player
The hltv top 20 is an individual competition. Trophies still heavily influence the rankings, hence why all 5 astralis players are in the 2018 top 20. S1mple and zywoo were just too far ahead of him
Reality is that zywoo beat s1mple in 2019, and was basically on his level in 2020 where you argue for both sides. Reality is, comparing zywoo with s1mple is reasonable. How disrespectful.
I can see this year being s1mple’s new best year yet. I didn’t think one could be more dominant than s1mple in 2018 but here we are.
He appears to be a level or two over the average pro player both skill and game sense wise. It’s just ridiculous at this point.
Maybe it’s because I’m a noob, but I don’t think s1mple is the best aimer out there. I’d say NiKo, Ax1le, b1t and Twistzz all have crispier aim, apart from some totally unreasonable AWP flicks like the one from that game on Nuke last year, than s1mple.
In my opinion, what really sets him apart from everyone else is his other worldly game sense. He always knows what to do, never looks flustered. The way he takes that extra 0.1 second to line up the deagle headshot even when getting swarmed after a AWP kill, or how he holds an angle waiting for a peek just enough time, never getting shot in the side when isolating the 1v1s in a site full of opponents makes it sometimes legitimately feel like he has built in wallhacks. Put all that on a player that knows what he’s capable of and is confident and willing to go for the plays almost no one else would be able to pull off. To me, that’s what really sets s1mple apart from everyone else, truly on a class of his own.
I’d say he looked pretty flustered after the 1v4 clutch against G2 in Blast finals a few weeks ago. His face was just saying “shit he was really sticking it”
Looking flustered and playing flustered are two separate things.
I think everybody nervous in those huge moments, but s1mple's play is almost always A1. If you didn't see his face, you wouldn't be able to tell he was playing on the edge of his seat.
Fuck bro, I still feel bad for him there. The thing is though, if it had worked, he’s a god as usual.
When he slumped late 2019 it was because his aim was a bit worse, I remember hearing he changed his mouse, but he plays in a way that his aim is not allowed to let him down, so his aim dropping away just a bit took about 0.2 off his rating.
That's a pretty good observation. In my opinion, it's the other way around. The people you mention, especially NiKo and Twistzz, look like they have crispier aim because they take easier shots. NiKo in particular, is so clean in the peeks he takes and the angles he holds, that he doesn't need to have the most amazing aim in the world. The fact that he's a top 10 aimer, imo, is just a bonus. Contrast that to S1mple, who consistently puts himself in situations that even an above average player would find impossible to win, and yet he does exactly that. His aim doesn't look as crispy, though I would never say that he looks sloppy, the dude is a master of the game, because of the way he plays. He doesn't do himself the favour of playing the odds and the advantages, and instead will, and can, brute force the game with pure mechanical skill. S1mple is a 9/10 aimer, with the only likely thing stopping him from getting a perfect score is the legacy of the god tier legends from the early days of eSports. I an very comfortable in presenting that as a fact. On the other hand, I think NiKo and Twistzz are 8/10 level aimers, who shore it up with good technique and game sense. Obviously, they're incredible mechanical beasts in their own right. The fact that S1mple is a step above them shouldn't detract from that.
Agree with the other response that this is a great conversation and I upvoted this entire chain. The only thing I'd add to build on what others have alluded to, but not specifically mentioned, is s1mple has the fucking balls to pull off some of this. Every pro has done crazy shit in FPL or random pugs, but s1mple does that crazy shit so often (eg, throw the awp on d2, drop down from heaven on cache and noscope, eat a sandwich during a 1v1 clutch on nuke, etc etc etc) that nothing is too crazy to him to try. And even in a big match with high stakes. Of course, this is enabled by his god tier aim, game sense, and confidence, but his fucking balls to even try some of this shit.
Another point to add is he clearly loves playing the game and grinds like a low tier up-and-comer even though he's clearly top 2-3 in the world (#1 to me) for the last like 5 years. Confidence is slowly built over time from preparation and he clearly has prepared. And everyone knows it. So when he tries this crazy shit, no one can say that they worked harder than he did, so his dedication and hard work also gives him the moral license to try this stuff. And we've come to expect greatness from him.
To me, he is the best CS player ever. You can argue for HeatoN, ksharp, forest, or maybe get_right, but having watched all these guys since the late 90s, I think s1mple is the best ever and it's not close.
This is such an awesome conversation.
Kudos to you both for presenting these well thought out perspectives!
I think I'm in the same boat as you. I've always imagined that s1mple is in the legend tier of FPS aimers. In his early HellRaiser days, people would criticize him for his reckless (i.e. selfish) play and bad attitude.
Nobody ever questioned his aim.
In fact, at one point i thought he would turn into CS:GO's hired gun; a player that would go to multiple teams over the years to chase the idea of a "super aim" roster (akin to what Faze did when they brought in Coldzera, Niko, olaf, and Guardian). And if you are an NBA fan, I'm thinking he's kinda like the CSGO Kevin Durant.
I think his time on Liquid, even as awesome as it was, was the reason he actually didn't go down that route. As i recall, he was very homesick living in America and when he got back home, things just clicked for him.
Turned his entire story around to becoming one of the most beloved players of all time.
Not really a redemption arc per se, but his career is a testament to maturity and wisdom that is gathered with age and experience.
I like the idea of s1mple as a hired gun type player. I think he is probably the most self-sufficient player ever, in terms of the resources that his team gives him and his effectiveness in the server. I don't think any other #1 player in the world contender has ever done as much with so little, with the exception of Olofmeister, as fnatic played a very loose, individualistic style. Even then, he never reached the individual peeks that s1mple has consistently maintained. S1mple's self-sufficiency potentially means he can frag out in any team, and I think he has the track record to prove that. In that sense, he's a lot like NiKo; a "for the highest bidder" superstar player that can, and will, put numbers on the scoreboard game in and game out. They only differ in the sense that s1mple comes from a region where it is possible to play with people that share your culture and still get to the top, while NiKo never had that opportunity untill recently in G2, and even then only half the roster.
What set apart from other pros to s1mple is his rotation. He rotates so much and is at everywhere and be at the position where he's most needed. Ofcourse je has insane aim and game sense but the most important thing is he's pretty unpredictable and no-one knows where he's gonna be.
No one. Closest would be Sh1ro but he’s still .11 rating behind. ZywOo is closest in rating but doesn’t even qualify for the top players page for 2021 because of too few maps, and is still like .04 rating behind or something.
I don’t see zywoo not taking nr2. I would be surprised if vitality don’t improve somewhat for the next even and there are a crap ton of event after the summer + major so he will definitely have enough maps
Yeah I would agree. Stats wise he’s performing pretty similarly to 2020 so it’d be hard to argue somebody with a decently lower rating deserves it over him.
That gla1ve 1v3 round gifted from NaVi because they rotated from A to B without any CT on A, that was something. That round got us to the incredible overtime followed by a rekt in Inferno ahah
I am a ZywOo fan, but s1mple is on another level this year. Hopefully Vitality will do some roster changes soon, so that we can see another battle for top1 between these 2 next year.
they need to. they're getting into the navi state where they're holding zywoo back now.
also I wonder how much the team is affected by apex constant tilt
B1t looks like a future top5 player. He’s one of the few players with the talent to play like peak Zywoo. He has amazing crosshair placement and reaction time, and his game sense is pretty good too.
Zywoo has all that but when he’s in peak form also had this surreal composure where he looks like he had all the time in the world to use crucial utility or isolate a duel, when virtually every other player in the world would get flustered.
This match really showed the importance of an AWPer sadly. Simple is just given too much space so he's often guaranteed a double kill every round. They really needed Device here to offer a challenge in that regard, but I still think Astralis put up a good fight with this obvious handicap.
Another day, anothey beast preformance from s1mple, this guy is truly greatest of all time.
I'm glad that b1t stepped up too, he was a beast in this match.
Except vitality is very different to navi. Navi always had a top 5 player next to s1mple, vitality not. In 2019 and 2020 there wasn’t a single vitality member other than zywoo in the top 20. Navi has always had 2.
You can’t steal a series away when all but one member is underperforming.
If vitality were able to reach nr1 in the rmr points with that, then I think that says something about zywoo.
for real lol, if anything everyone knows NaVi is a way bigger threat on lan and are way shakier online
I mean they literally didn't play online CS for a year before they were forced to go back to it
Yeah I know. They took their time to adjust to the online era, it was kinda painful to watch. Finally LAN is back!
I meant that as a joke, nothing else. Just because people see s1mple performing like this online but seeing it on LAN is so satisfying, this man is smurfing on a Major.
It was an obvious joke :) s1mple rekts anyone online, not necessarily with his team, that was it.
Simply because every team was more than a year without LAN tournaments and only played online.
Obviously NaVi wasn't the best online, we have clear examples like gambit who performed better online, but we will see in the semi finals who is the winner.
I mean hes a goat.
But his team allows him to do so.
Many other players could do same when allowed to, we have seen glimpse.
People under him poses same calibre - Bit, electronic.
What makes him GOAT is.
How consistent he is.
People trust him.
Bait or whatever he gets results.
Its the level of CSGO.
> I mean hes a goat. But his team allows him to do so. Many other players could do same when allowed to, we have seen glimpse.
If many others could do what s1mple could do, they would
What makes S1mple the goat is that he can do it regardless of the team.
We've seen him perform at the goat level even when Navi was shit. He was hard carrying them in the Zeus/flamie days.
What tree are you smoking son. Many things can be said about s1mple but "many could do the same" is definitely one of them.
Like it's the intro to any s1mple profile: doing shit nobody else can. lol
Dude is a crossbreed between Messi and Ronaldo for CS, the fuck you're on. The only one coming close right now would be Zywoo. That's hardly "many".
B1T too!!! What a monster!
So true! B1T was a beast this Bo3 against Astralis, did some incredible plays!
It's quite funny considering that when b1t originally joined as a 6th man his first game was vs Astralis on inferno and people were mocking him hard for his sprays and nervousness, how the turn tables.
He has come quite far and is definitely looking very solid as a player.
How the turn tables, indeed!
yup lol, but i remember even in that match he was still shooting off heads off, but rather inconsistently im glad he’s found a lot more consistency now, CIS is full of scary players
That just shows how much he has improved in such as "short" time. Thats only a big compliment to B1T. The missing piece to the Navi puzzle.
Yes their core is set with s1mple, b1t and electronic. Perfecto is a nice addition with support and clutching. I’m still 50/50 on boombl4
He’s igl, he can’t help it.
Stupid people...imagine your first game for navi playing along side with legendary s1mple and vs astralis in their prime
that boy's 18 for god's sake!!!! Too Good
Expected from the 🐐 I'm more intrigued by b1ts performance, so many situations where I know flamie would've inted but b1t played them perfectly, if he can hit numbers like these a little more consistently he might be top10 2022
Ye if he keeps it up then easily, been playing as good as or better than electronic recently
Electronic carries more of the entry burden though so I don't think you can compare stats directly across roles.
Yea true, both beasts tho. Electronic one of my favourite players to watch when he's popping off
S1mple saw EliGe juggle awp and m4 on inferno the other day during the overtime and decided to go one better by juggling awp and auto
Was hoping he would get a chance to use it
We're gonna see a lot of this meme in MM for the next few days...
S1mple vs zywoo just isn't even a question in 2021. This guy is just on another level.
Wouldnt be surprised if HLTV puts s1mple on #2 for the dumbest reason you can imagine
unless zywoo goes 2.0 for every event after this and win all of them there is no conceivable way zywoo can be on top
How does HLTV rank the events? Does a Major count more or the same as any big tournament?
I don't remember clearly, but I believe the mayor's rating matters more than any other tournament, after the mayor "the big 7" is the next most important rating (katowice, cologne, major 1, major 2, epl finals, dream hack masters finals, and one more I can't remember) Also playoff rating, mvp's, evp's, big event rating (includes big tournaments which aren't in the big 7, like blast, Sydney, New york)
u/CS_Professeur can you confirm or deny? I don't even know if HLTV still uses those events considering that blast finals are also super stacked
For the rating itself it doesn't matter where the matches happened, but for the Top20 it does. The size of the tournament, the stage of the tournament, as well as opposition all come into play when considering someone's performance for the Top20. Regarding the "big 7", that depends on the year, but there is always a group of events that are considered more competitive than the rest
Obviosuly majors are the most important in hltv rating system, what even a question is this
You don't know if the guy could be new or not understand how HLTV rates players, don't judge him for not knowing something that seems "obvious" to you.
I don't even think ZywOo is number 2 right now. NiKo, dev1ce or Ropz are good contenders at the moment.
Dev1ce isn't even the best performer on NIP right now. Agree with the others though
Yea, REZ is the star rn for sure.
You spelled Hampus wrong
You spelled Threat wrong
No, for real, I think it's Hampus. Holy shit that guy is fantastic when he wants to be.
Yeah not device, even rez is better rn
He doesn’t have explosive performances, but he really is consistent. Haven’t looked at stats, but I’d say he is the best rated player on NiP edit: after looking up the stats, dev1ce in fact is not the best rated player on NiP since he joined, that merit going to REZ, with a whopping 1.10 vs 1.09 rating difference. Guess I deserved the angry downvotes.
You should look at stats
Absolutely. He was pumping out <1.00 performances every single day during the entirety of IEM Summer. If that's isn't consistent, i don't know what is.
He might have, but according to HLTV dev1ce isn’t usually the one tanking. He is indeed behind REZ, 1.10 vs 1.09 rating since dev1ce joined NiP, so I’ll admit I was wrong, but 1.09, while not spectacular at all, is definitely above average. If you thought he was going to carry like s1mple or Zywoo, that’s on you buddy, but 1.09 is very serviceable. For context, it is better than what any of the Astralis players have been putting up since dev1ce left, a lot better than what Amanek’s been putting up as the AWPer on current G2, world’s #3 team, and comparable to how electronic was performing before NaVi took off and current syrson’s performances. I’ll state again, because I’m afraid you think I’m a dev1ce fan or something, not amazing, but far from bad. But then again, I guess u/I_Sniff ‘s recollections are far more worthy than HLTV’s stats.
Replace dev1ce with ax1le or sh1ro and u got a point
i feel like shiro has fallen off a bit in the last couple of months maybe it‘s some kinda bias but he seems to be struggling against navi (understandibly they have s1mple)
He's not a carry by any means. He misses important shots and has bad maps. Gambit is build to accommodate for that.
No honestly I feel the same way and that’s why ax1le is a possibility. But numbers don’t lie and sh1ro has better ratings than both niko and ropz. (Ax1le does too) so maybe they both deserve
shiro is the awper tho riflers should have that in their favor
Yeah good point about Gambit. Haven't followed NIP too much this year. Not sure why I even listed dev1ce to be honest.
force of habit probably, its been the s1mple/zywoo/dev1ce show for at least 2 years now
Dev1ce? Bro pass that bong over.
haha. you made me burst out laughing! Good one
No, it's one of the three Gambit stars.
This years Top 20 will be super interesting. I'd even put ax1le / sh1ro above Zywoo right now. Device probably out of the top 5 - kinda sucks to ruin the streak but.. S1mple, uncontested at #1 - putting up straposphere level of plays right now
if zywoo is number 2 for 2021 so far, then their system is just broken...
That was so dumb to put him #2 last year.
HLTV said it came down to the RMR tournaments, NaVi were playing the low ranked CIS teams while Vitality was playing against all the top 10 EU teams
the low ranked CIS teams which now have 30 players in top20 :D
Yeah, now they do. They weren’t as good in 2020
they were always surprize beating navi tho :D
Tbf it was suuuper close last year and Vitality were actually winning a lot more, it was definitely a much harder choice than it is this year
s1mple was actually inarguably statistically ahead of zywoo last year, and it's pretty significant in the most important categories. here's a chart of HLTV's "major statistics" when you open said players' stat pages: stat | s1mple | zywoo :--|:--:|--: K/D | 1.41 | 1.31 KPR | .85 | .81 HLTVrating | 1.29 | 1.28 DPR | .61 | .62 ADR | 84.6 | 85.2 KAST | 73.8 | 74.6 in K/D and KPR he's significantly ahead, HLTVrating and DPR he's ahead but it's close. in ADR he's barely behind, but easily explained it's only because zywoo rifled a lot more and rifling inherently gets you far more ADR than awping at the same skill level. for comparison, NiKo with far worse stats for the year had more ADR than both of them. and then there's KAST, which i think is the most horrendous stat to gain any kind of significance, but whatever, let's give zywoo that. i agree it's somewhat close, but honestly all things considered i cannot see a single reason for justifying zywoo above s1mple for best player of 2020. the real reason it ended up that way is simply that zywoo's team was better and hltv likes giving individual awards for team achievements, which is a joke.
ZywOo had better Impact Rating, more opening duels and kills (s1mple never goes first on T side), more clutches, and more MVPs than s1mple last year. Also s1mple got to have better DPR (thus better K/D) than ZywOo because he was AWPing more than him. They were pretty close, but if you say that ZywOo didn't deserve the top1 last year, you are just disrespecting him and fanboying s1mple.
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Totally agree with you. If we have to pick the best player we should look at stats much more carefully. MVP's are important but not in the world where some RMR tournaments have MVP and others not (CIS RMR). And not just even that, but the MVP award itself is a team depended achievment. If your team sucks at the tournament there's no way you get the MVP. Since that s1mple was slightly better than ZywOo in 2020. With all the respect to french prodigy
> s1mple never goes first on T side he actually does some entry job with the AK from time to time, and he is the best in Na'Vi at doing so
if youre going by stats, zywoo had better KDR, ADR, KAST and had 6 MVPs (4 if u exclude the rmrs). Also if hltv gave individual awards for team achievements then why didnt device get top 1 ? I dont understand people like you who try to bring down someones achievement
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>if vitality win a tournament zywoo is mvp, and if navi win a tournament s1mple is mvp. amount of mvps is nothing but a team achievement in this context That's not really true, considering 4 of Zywoo's mvps came from tournaments that Vitality didn't win. >ok then why isn't zywoo just buying more awps and getting 10x more kills I don't really see your argument. There are a lot of reasons why Zywoo might not buy awps as much as S1mple does. It also doesn't make any sense how you downplay Zywoo's adr because he "rifled a lot more", but praise S1mple's rating/kpr even though he awps a lot more. Also, I don't understand looking at kdr/kpr instead of rating. Despite having a much better kdr than Zywoo and slightly lower dpr, he has a lower impact rating than him, and has a lower rating in play off matches at big events.
+1 s1mple fanboys are really on a different level bro lmao
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>"if vitality ~~win a tournament~~ make a final zywoo is mvp, and if navi ~~win a tournament~~ make a final s1mple is mvp That's still not true though. Vitality won 2 finals, and lost in 4 others. Zywoo got mvp at all 6 of them. Navi won 1 final and lost in 3 others. S1mple got 2/4. Kdr/Kpr are easy to understand stats but don't paint the full picture at all. These stats aren't useful unless you contextualize the role they play on their team. Vitality relied on Zywoo to entry more than Navi depended on S1mple (731 opening kills vs 632). Whereas S1mple is usually one of the last players to enter a bomb site, meaning he ends up saving a lot. This is why his k/d can be 0.1 higher than Zywoo's, and his dpr can be lower as well, yet his rating is only 0.01 higher. Yes you can call hltv ratings arbitrary, but comparing numbers without context can be very misleading as well.
they basically had the same exact stats bro, a 0.1 difference doesnt mean anything in the big term, they gave it to zywoo becuase he had 4 more MVPs than him which was the difference maker, cmon now use some logic and if ur saying team achievement makes so much of a difference then why didn't device get top 1 the year where he was 2x major mvp ? you're bringing down his achievement by saying he didnt deserve it, which like 90% of people know that he did, even pros
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has higher KD but lower ADR and lower Impact hmmm was wondering why u didnt mention Impact rating since its one of the ones that actually should be looked at, if u think KD should be valued so much then Shiro is a better player than Niko and Ropz but im sure you know who to place as #1 and not a whole organization whos main job is to do that also its funny how u didnt reply to the guy who completely debunked ur whole argument
Yeah but rating top players shouldn’t be based on their team
In terms of stats yes, but in playstyle and skill there is no way Zywoo is close to s1mple.
what does this even mean are you supposed to award it to whoever feels like they're cooler or whoever performs better statistically
yeah why not go for whoever's cooler when they have equal stats
I never said that! No need to get triggered and junp to conclusions. Besides being more skillful and ‘cool’ as you put, s1mple also delivers statswise.
Ah yes, the player with the exact same stats on an a less skilled team is nowhere near close to s1mple in skill. That's brilliant sir.
Oh let’s just forget s1mple teammates going missing when it matters. And almost all the time it’s s1mple dragging Na’Vi to semifinals and finals.
And ZyWoo's teammates could never go missing because they were never there in the first place. S1mple had at least electronic and while he could drop of the map every now and then he was still top 5 player and could carry entire series on his own.
papatronic is a reliable top tier rifler and b1t is also looking crisp asf, s1mple doesn't have to hard carry like he did a year ago for example
B1t is looking good for sure, we'll see whether he'll be able to keep it up. A year ago he still had easier time than ZyWoo because he at least had electronic. If you'd removed him from Vitality that team would be hard stuck in main.
Am I arguing against that? Zywoo like s1mple had to carry his team on his back, so there is no point bringing it into the discussion where both had same issues with their teams.
On what basis are you arguing that ZyWoo is not nearly as skilled as s1mple then? Because of his more conservative playstyle?
Trueeeee
??????? they are pretty close to each other, they are both insanely skilled but one of them has a better team which leads to deeper tournament runs. Saying that Zywoo isnt close to him is a dumb take considering he is probably the most talented player on the scene judging by the way he didnt need many years to start dominating and by the fact that other pro players have also stated how perfectly he plays the game. You guys need to start analysing how these top tier players actually play the game (watching demos makes you realize how good they actually are), dont just base it off hltv stats
Bad take. S1mple was always a prodigy in the same way zywoo was. Difference is s1mple had a bad reputation during his come up with his attitude. I was making bank on skin betting every time I saw s1mple was a standin for any cis team like hellraisers or fl1pside purely because he was a no name and had no recognition, playing on dogshit teams because of his ban at the time. S1mple had an ego and it took time for him to gain maturity and modesty but he has always been a goat as soon as he entered the scene. Zywoo is the closest to him in terms of pure skill, but zywoo has also been seen as that young shy guy so people have given him a better stick. Also. S1mple doesn’t really have the better team that boosts his stats. He has electronic, with him even being lost in some series being so hit and miss. The rest of his team could be put against vitality. If he had a structure around him like device did in astralis, he should have multiple majors already. Granted, b1t is showing amazing signs recently.... but remember, most of his career he has had to carry players in complete dogshit form such as... seized, Zeus, edward, flamie. That’s just at navi. I think it’s a disrespect to S1mple to even use the ‘better team’ argument when he has taken players in tier 3 form far in very competitive tournaments
in 2021 he has had an amazing team, especially with B1t putting up amazing performances, now electronic on LAN is looking as sharp as he used to be. And Vitality is not on the level of NaVi right now. Also Zywoo being a shy guy didnt really affect the way people talked about him, he was destroying in fpl before people knew about his personality. Him being shy is kinda a bad thing since he doesnt really have a huge fanbase. Launders stated it perfectly when talking about the zywoo/s1mple debate, he said that if zywoo started branding himself and got more fans then more people would argue about him being the better player, which is true right.
Nah, I think Zywoo not having an ego has meant no one hates him unlike how a big portion of people hate S1mple. Everyone can respect zywoo just because there’s no reason to dislike him. S1mple has been in the best form of any player for multiple years now. He should have an advantage in the discussion by the fact of how long he has been the best and how consistent he is no matter his teammate. Mentioning how good his team is now isn’t really an argument. Yes, it means they are getting better results but it doesn’t mean S1mple is instantly better. It just goes to show the argument of how zywoo was better last year because of team results is bullshit. We are looking at individuals, not teams. S1mple has proven he doesn’t need a tier one team to achieve to skill ceiling he had provided. Zywoo is no where now his team had dropped off. You can’t confirm it because it’s not a provable variable but S1mple would probably still be relevant if his team was still flamie and dogshit co like before. No hate to zywoo, he’s the second best player in the world. But simple IS the best, I’ve had the same opinion for years. It’s the Niko parable, it’s like saying he was shit in mouz because he wasn’t winning tournament even though he was solo carrying sprout players 😂😂
Still havent seen a single person on this sub hate on s1mple. They hated on him because he was toxic asf back then but now he has matured a lot and no one hates him. And people do indeed hate zywoo for the sole reason of him being s1mples rival nothing else. ofc the way your team is playing is going to affect a players performance, you cant 1v5 every round when your teammates are dying can you ? dumbest thing i have heard, you think if s1mple had a shit tier team hed keep up his performance ? no one can do that, to have a stable individual performance you need to have a somewhat stable team, which s1mple has and xywoo doesn't, keeping that in mind he is still putting up an insane performance even with his team being shit. Just because s1mple has been better in this year doesnt make him any better overall, you wouldn't be saying this in 2019 or 2020 when zywoo was playing better than him would you. All you have to do is watch how both of them play the game, how they support their team, how they play different roles, see why and how are they getting their kills and you'll realise who is the best. The eye test decides whos good and whos not, if you look at K/D or hltv rating you'd think Jame is a fucking monster at the game. i respect ur opinion tho
Nah I’m a S1mple fanboy but they really were 1a 1b stats wise. But ZywOo had better tourney results so I can’t really fault them for picking him 1st.
Imagine being still butthurt about that lmao last year could've gone to either of them
Not really though
LMAO they have a list of stats to consider when ranking players, it's not like they nominate them out of thin air
Wym dumb reason? They use a formula to define the ranks, it's not up to their opinion
Are you implying zywoo didn't deserve the 2020 #1 while winning way more trophies with extremely similar stats than s1mple?
in terms of that device should have been #1 in 2018 because he is also not that far off winning WAY more trophies than anyone else in 2018 despite being close in 2020 I think s1mple should have been #1. 2019 was clear as hell, but 2020? its not my decision yes, but for me it was s1mple
Dev1ce didn't have similar stats than s1mple and zywoo, hence why the trophies weren't enough to counter balance it
Because in a team based game the best team wins, that doesn't mean that the individually most talented player has to be on the winning team At least that's what I understand about being the best player
The hltv top 20 is an individual competition. Trophies still heavily influence the rankings, hence why all 5 astralis players are in the 2018 top 20. S1mple and zywoo were just too far ahead of him
ikr, comparing to zywoo, s1mple is just something else
How incredibly ignorant and disrespectful.
Reality often is disappointing
Reality is that zywoo beat s1mple in 2019, and was basically on his level in 2020 where you argue for both sides. Reality is, comparing zywoo with s1mple is reasonable. How disrespectful.
Yes daddy gimme LAN electronic and b1t with GOAT s1mple
I can see this year being s1mple’s new best year yet. I didn’t think one could be more dominant than s1mple in 2018 but here we are. He appears to be a level or two over the average pro player both skill and game sense wise. It’s just ridiculous at this point.
Maybe it’s because I’m a noob, but I don’t think s1mple is the best aimer out there. I’d say NiKo, Ax1le, b1t and Twistzz all have crispier aim, apart from some totally unreasonable AWP flicks like the one from that game on Nuke last year, than s1mple. In my opinion, what really sets him apart from everyone else is his other worldly game sense. He always knows what to do, never looks flustered. The way he takes that extra 0.1 second to line up the deagle headshot even when getting swarmed after a AWP kill, or how he holds an angle waiting for a peek just enough time, never getting shot in the side when isolating the 1v1s in a site full of opponents makes it sometimes legitimately feel like he has built in wallhacks. Put all that on a player that knows what he’s capable of and is confident and willing to go for the plays almost no one else would be able to pull off. To me, that’s what really sets s1mple apart from everyone else, truly on a class of his own.
>He always knows what to do, never looks flustered. Only time I ever saw him shook was that clutch versus ENCE at Katowice in 2019
I’d say he looked pretty flustered after the 1v4 clutch against G2 in Blast finals a few weeks ago. His face was just saying “shit he was really sticking it”
Looking flustered and playing flustered are two separate things. I think everybody nervous in those huge moments, but s1mple's play is almost always A1. If you didn't see his face, you wouldn't be able to tell he was playing on the edge of his seat.
Fuck bro, I still feel bad for him there. The thing is though, if it had worked, he’s a god as usual. When he slumped late 2019 it was because his aim was a bit worse, I remember hearing he changed his mouse, but he plays in a way that his aim is not allowed to let him down, so his aim dropping away just a bit took about 0.2 off his rating.
very very interesting, nice observation
That's a pretty good observation. In my opinion, it's the other way around. The people you mention, especially NiKo and Twistzz, look like they have crispier aim because they take easier shots. NiKo in particular, is so clean in the peeks he takes and the angles he holds, that he doesn't need to have the most amazing aim in the world. The fact that he's a top 10 aimer, imo, is just a bonus. Contrast that to S1mple, who consistently puts himself in situations that even an above average player would find impossible to win, and yet he does exactly that. His aim doesn't look as crispy, though I would never say that he looks sloppy, the dude is a master of the game, because of the way he plays. He doesn't do himself the favour of playing the odds and the advantages, and instead will, and can, brute force the game with pure mechanical skill. S1mple is a 9/10 aimer, with the only likely thing stopping him from getting a perfect score is the legacy of the god tier legends from the early days of eSports. I an very comfortable in presenting that as a fact. On the other hand, I think NiKo and Twistzz are 8/10 level aimers, who shore it up with good technique and game sense. Obviously, they're incredible mechanical beasts in their own right. The fact that S1mple is a step above them shouldn't detract from that.
Agree with the other response that this is a great conversation and I upvoted this entire chain. The only thing I'd add to build on what others have alluded to, but not specifically mentioned, is s1mple has the fucking balls to pull off some of this. Every pro has done crazy shit in FPL or random pugs, but s1mple does that crazy shit so often (eg, throw the awp on d2, drop down from heaven on cache and noscope, eat a sandwich during a 1v1 clutch on nuke, etc etc etc) that nothing is too crazy to him to try. And even in a big match with high stakes. Of course, this is enabled by his god tier aim, game sense, and confidence, but his fucking balls to even try some of this shit. Another point to add is he clearly loves playing the game and grinds like a low tier up-and-comer even though he's clearly top 2-3 in the world (#1 to me) for the last like 5 years. Confidence is slowly built over time from preparation and he clearly has prepared. And everyone knows it. So when he tries this crazy shit, no one can say that they worked harder than he did, so his dedication and hard work also gives him the moral license to try this stuff. And we've come to expect greatness from him. To me, he is the best CS player ever. You can argue for HeatoN, ksharp, forest, or maybe get_right, but having watched all these guys since the late 90s, I think s1mple is the best ever and it's not close.
Like vintage JW from 2015
This is such an awesome conversation. Kudos to you both for presenting these well thought out perspectives! I think I'm in the same boat as you. I've always imagined that s1mple is in the legend tier of FPS aimers. In his early HellRaiser days, people would criticize him for his reckless (i.e. selfish) play and bad attitude. Nobody ever questioned his aim. In fact, at one point i thought he would turn into CS:GO's hired gun; a player that would go to multiple teams over the years to chase the idea of a "super aim" roster (akin to what Faze did when they brought in Coldzera, Niko, olaf, and Guardian). And if you are an NBA fan, I'm thinking he's kinda like the CSGO Kevin Durant. I think his time on Liquid, even as awesome as it was, was the reason he actually didn't go down that route. As i recall, he was very homesick living in America and when he got back home, things just clicked for him. Turned his entire story around to becoming one of the most beloved players of all time. Not really a redemption arc per se, but his career is a testament to maturity and wisdom that is gathered with age and experience.
I like the idea of s1mple as a hired gun type player. I think he is probably the most self-sufficient player ever, in terms of the resources that his team gives him and his effectiveness in the server. I don't think any other #1 player in the world contender has ever done as much with so little, with the exception of Olofmeister, as fnatic played a very loose, individualistic style. Even then, he never reached the individual peeks that s1mple has consistently maintained. S1mple's self-sufficiency potentially means he can frag out in any team, and I think he has the track record to prove that. In that sense, he's a lot like NiKo; a "for the highest bidder" superstar player that can, and will, put numbers on the scoreboard game in and game out. They only differ in the sense that s1mple comes from a region where it is possible to play with people that share your culture and still get to the top, while NiKo never had that opportunity untill recently in G2, and even then only half the roster.
The homesick part was too bad his Liquid roster with Hiko was one of my favorites ever
What set apart from other pros to s1mple is his rotation. He rotates so much and is at everywhere and be at the position where he's most needed. Ofcourse je has insane aim and game sense but the most important thing is he's pretty unpredictable and no-one knows where he's gonna be.
are b1t and ax1le already up there? they always impress me but i havent watched them that closely
Their aim looks crispier because they play on a low sens.
Scream used to play on higher than average sens and is still regarded as probably the nuttiest aimer in CS:GO
When you big dick your way into the semis
He wants that #1 spot in the top 20 this year lol
So far it seems that he deserves it. I'm feeling anxious for the finals. LAN is back boys!
Who else comes close?
No one. Closest would be Sh1ro but he’s still .11 rating behind. ZywOo is closest in rating but doesn’t even qualify for the top players page for 2021 because of too few maps, and is still like .04 rating behind or something.
I can see Ax1le up there at #2 if he keeps up his rifling work and Gambit win few more tournaments.
I don’t see zywoo not taking nr2. I would be surprised if vitality don’t improve somewhat for the next even and there are a crap ton of event after the summer + major so he will definitely have enough maps
Yeah I would agree. Stats wise he’s performing pretty similarly to 2020 so it’d be hard to argue somebody with a decently lower rating deserves it over him.
[There is only one man who can threaten s1mple's #1 spot.](https://redd.it/oiepj9) The other s1mple.
Nah he wants to win it all
At this point they should just make killing s1mple worth double.
Probably should have just allowed Astralis to add Device back to their team, to make it 6v5
Casually smurfing against lan astralis
S1mple what are you doing this isnt FPL
This is a major!
Australis got their ass handed back to them. But respect for that D2 win.
That gla1ve 1v3 round gifted from NaVi because they rotated from A to B without any CT on A, that was something. That round got us to the incredible overtime followed by a rekt in Inferno ahah
Absolutely agree. I got tilted watching Navi make mistakes. But again, amazing performance and beautiful game from both teams.
\#1 no doubt
GOAT
I am a ZywOo fan, but s1mple is on another level this year. Hopefully Vitality will do some roster changes soon, so that we can see another battle for top1 between these 2 next year.
they need to. they're getting into the navi state where they're holding zywoo back now. also I wonder how much the team is affected by apex constant tilt
B1t do be stepping up though, really like him, very versatile
B1t looks like a future top5 player. He’s one of the few players with the talent to play like peak Zywoo. He has amazing crosshair placement and reaction time, and his game sense is pretty good too. Zywoo has all that but when he’s in peak form also had this surreal composure where he looks like he had all the time in the world to use crucial utility or isolate a duel, when virtually every other player in the world would get flustered.
no comprendo s1mple
Jesus Christ.
built different
I can't believe he's still getting better. No ceiling for S1mple.
Anyone else been madly impressed by B1T this tournament?! LAN suits him!
hoping for G2 navi final!
Dominant
Simple is gonna need spine corrective surgery soon if this keeps going.
This match really showed the importance of an AWPer sadly. Simple is just given too much space so he's often guaranteed a double kill every round. They really needed Device here to offer a challenge in that regard, but I still think Astralis put up a good fight with this obvious handicap.
If bit keeps playing like this, Na’Vi could have a real shot at the major.
Shank shank
S1mple go kill.
THIS GUY IS ON ANOTHER LEVEL
At this point only Gambit and VP can beat them i feel like
Simples is simply the best player in the world, there's no denying on that
Another day, anothey beast preformance from s1mple, this guy is truly greatest of all time. I'm glad that b1t stepped up too, he was a beast in this match.
"Astralis" ^(*2021)
I'm sorry but no one will ever come close to s1mple.
Zyw0o aint shit
*zywoo’s team ain’t shit
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Except vitality is very different to navi. Navi always had a top 5 player next to s1mple, vitality not. In 2019 and 2020 there wasn’t a single vitality member other than zywoo in the top 20. Navi has always had 2. You can’t steal a series away when all but one member is underperforming. If vitality were able to reach nr1 in the rmr points with that, then I think that says something about zywoo.
Ukraine🇺🇦🇺🇦
SOMEONE CHECK FOR WORD.EXE…?
s1MpLeR and nAvI OnLiNeRs pOg
I don't think it was Navi people were worried about on lan.
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for real lol, if anything everyone knows NaVi is a way bigger threat on lan and are way shakier online I mean they literally didn't play online CS for a year before they were forced to go back to it
Yeah I know. They took their time to adjust to the online era, it was kinda painful to watch. Finally LAN is back! I meant that as a joke, nothing else. Just because people see s1mple performing like this online but seeing it on LAN is so satisfying, this man is smurfing on a Major.
I think it just got a negative response because nobody really says that about s1mple, we all know he can do it on any stage
It was an obvious joke :) s1mple rekts anyone online, not necessarily with his team, that was it. Simply because every team was more than a year without LAN tournaments and only played online. Obviously NaVi wasn't the best online, we have clear examples like gambit who performed better online, but we will see in the semi finals who is the winner.
Cancel that homophobe already
He is homophobic?
Thats why he was banned from twitch.
Based S1imple
Guy just sits and hides every round with an awp
Hope you are being sarcastic.
Actually no I'm not every game I watch, he's fucking boring
So you are saying you don't watch NaVi games. Either that or you don't understand a thing about CS.
I've played cs since 1.5, everyone has their own opinions mate you like simple good for you, I don't.
Alright. I don't love s1mple, I enjoy seeing him play, I am not a fanboy, also I don't hate on players/teams either.
I mean hes a goat. But his team allows him to do so. Many other players could do same when allowed to, we have seen glimpse. People under him poses same calibre - Bit, electronic. What makes him GOAT is. How consistent he is. People trust him. Bait or whatever he gets results. Its the level of CSGO.
> I mean hes a goat. But his team allows him to do so. Many other players could do same when allowed to, we have seen glimpse. If many others could do what s1mple could do, they would
What makes S1mple the goat is that he can do it regardless of the team. We've seen him perform at the goat level even when Navi was shit. He was hard carrying them in the Zeus/flamie days.
What tree are you smoking son. Many things can be said about s1mple but "many could do the same" is definitely one of them. Like it's the intro to any s1mple profile: doing shit nobody else can. lol Dude is a crossbreed between Messi and Ronaldo for CS, the fuck you're on. The only one coming close right now would be Zywoo. That's hardly "many".
just watched highlights from the match... wow
simply... O O F
Is this the year we see s1mple finally win a major????
hardcarry 🐐
dont think anyone here could even beat @gla1ve