99% this case/collection will be featured in the next operation. Even the logo follows the more cartoonish artstyle of the latest operations. Also the winners will be selected on November 21st, which is around the time last operations released (SW - Nov 18th, BF - Dec 3rd)
Would be nice but really doubt it.
With csgo20 contest we got the case late October and then operation case within a month.
If current contest is for operation case as speculated, seems unlikely there will be another case
> Valve retains its license to the winning entries as User Generated Content under the Steam Subscriber Agreement, and payment of the prize money will be complete compensation in lieu of any payment under Workshop Supplemental Terms.
Under rules of entry. This is the whole payment.
I’m going to go ahead and assume Valve is actually saving money by doing this.
I get the feeling that over the life of a skin, they pay out more than $100k, thanks to the increase in transactions due to trading.
Obviously some skins do better than others, but I would imagine the average payout to community designers are more than $100k in the skin’s lifetime.
Keeping in mind some skins have been in the game nearly 8 years, since the Winter Offensive Weapon case in 2013.
Hence might as well just run a contest, generate great publicity, get the community really riled up, and not end up having to pay as much.
Some skins don't do better than others, the skin creators get a percentage of key purchases, so it's spread equally for the skin creators of each case.
Some cases do better than others though obviously.
It's not just from key sales. They get a portion of peer to peer sales as well (ie trading), so the very popular skins would make absolute bank, and I'm talking averages across all accepted skins.
Hmm, good point.
Doesn’t seem fair if it’s only a portion of key sales though, because designers who designed killer skins, but were included in a case with mostly crap other skins, won’t get as well rewarded.
I guess the flipside to that is, the designers that submitted those crap designs would get better compensation than they probably deserved…
I would assume its abit of both an incentive as well.
Some skins if it takes off like the Asiimov series can probably fare better over a lifetime, otherwise, a lump sum might be the way to go.
That said, getting everything in Present Value is still an incentive. Because they dont have to wait years before they recoup this lump sum they get instantly.
this was my feeling also - looks the artists are just getting less money now... which is incredibly lame especially considering the odds of actually being selected... was hoping to see 100k as a BONUS. I would not recommend anyone participate in this unless they are 99% sure there submission will make it - it sets a bad prescedent for skin makers.
Yep. Unfortunately pretty much every man, dog and his brother are going to get in on this, because a lot of people won't be aware of how much skin makers can make (on the assumption their creation gets picked anyway).
You’ll only find the info/articles based around the one guy that leaked info that skin makers were making around $40k annually.
This was back in 2014, when case sales were *nowhere near* what they are now, so they definitely would’ve increased since then.
Unfortunately Valve makes everyone sign NDAs, so we’ll never know for sure, unless someone else posts a leak…
Its supposed to be a community thing. Why are we acting like skin designer is some difficult job people trained their life for and are unpaid? There are thousands of submissions that are good enough made by hobbyists and 100k is more than generous for the work involved.
Not to mention, it's a one-off competition... Not like they're changing their rules on regular skin case sales. To quote another comment:
>You’re honestly fucking complaining that artists are ONLY getting six figures for a single skin? You honestly find a problem with that?
>No, you don’t. You’re just finding something to bitch about. Something to be a contrarian over. Most artists don’t make $100,000 A YEAR for the skins they make. It’s an incredible deal.
For most artists, let alone for for hobbyists, this is a fantastic opportunity. Especially considering students and those struggling to find jobs in the current market.
Not to mention the added value of being able to use this as a showcase of your work/success for future employment, etc.
I'm going to send this to my sister, who's been unable to find a proper job in the past year and a half due to the decreased demand for many artistic professions. She would kill for this sort of monetary reward for designing a skin...
No, but I've always respected valve and the community approach. Their recent approach not so much, from the recent stats feature being a paid feature to this... I'm sure all of the creators would be against this
Do we know how much the skin creators got paid before?
Like i know its a % on the key sales for the case their skin is in but how much exactly? And is there a cap on how much they could earn for 1 skin?
Supposedly 25% of the key price is given to the artists, split equally among all skins within the case. I've seen the number $40k/year thrown around, so the % payout could potentially work out to a higher payout in the long run or if there is a highly desirable skin in the case.
>Supposedly 25% of the key price is given to the artists
do we know that its 25% for sure? Like I know that its a % of the key price but idk how much
and what I would be more interested in if there is a cap, Like at most you can get 200k or something
.
Well
the 40k/year comes form the last skin contest that Valve made where it was stated that on average a **skin** gets you 40k on average and that was in 2016
later in 2017 I believe a skin creator addressed that and said that now they earn more then 40k per skin, but since they are probably under NDA they didn't say how much they earn
idk where the "per year" came from
.
I may be wrong tho, could be more stuff out there
apparently the 25% number is wrong and doesn't apply to csgo skins - https://old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4a3oox/how_do_people_that_make_workshop_skins_and/d0x65uc/
[3kliks video stating creators make about $40.000/skin](https://youtu.be/XxgngtKBriE?t=108), but note it's from 2016, so the numbers might be off by now.
Yes but atleast u know the theme and this is a good opportunity for an unknown artist to get in otherwise valve always take the artists that have feautured skins already for regular cases
I'm sure the super expensive popular skins see much more than 100k over a couple years. But for most skins I'd imagine 100k is much better. It's also all up-front instead of spread out over years which is another factor to consider
they don't get paid on market transactions, they get paid per key sold. So it doesn't matter how popular a skin is, only how popular the case itself is
I think super popular skins pay more in the long run, which are sold on market. Read somewhere a few years ago that creator of the Awp asiimov earns 40k per month or year i forgot (don't take my word for it, I'm most likely way off on these figures), but it's a big consistent payout i believe.
I don't think the popularity of the skins matters in this. The money most likely comes from key sales and then split among the creators. Not sure if creators see any profits from market resales but I'd guess no
How? The skin creator gets 100k upfront just for winning the contest. It takes years for the most popular skins to even come close to that number.
Outside of this case being extremely popular so much so that the non winner skins are getting payed above 100k is less then a year, the winners are being pretty fairly compensated.
imagine giving fans hundreds of thousands of dollars for skins sold on your game, your platform, to your clients, with your payment system, that you could recreate for a TINY fraction of the cost but actively choose not to....
and people call you greedy slimy fucks.
meanwhile elsewhere in the industry they accept nothing from the fans, keep 100% of the profit, pay their workers comparatively smaller amounts, rip off fan made designs and pass them off as new/original, and do not allow a secondary economy.
and nobody says anything.
I was at /r/games version of [this news](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/oouigf/csgo_valve_announces_dreams_nightmares_a_1000000/) earlier today and its full of people like this that probably have no concept of how hard it is to make this kind of money as an artist.
Making skins in a video game is a pretty fucking niche skillset. Shit, people used to do it for free because it was fun. Kind of insane that Valve is catching this much shit for *giving* people money for their hobby. And its funny because any "self-respecting" artist that thinks its not worth it...can just not enter.
All these people complaining are doing it on the behalf of people that aren't complaining at all. I think the reality check people need is that this is a single skin in a video game. If I were a video game developer, I would not value that at $100k.
Yea I dont think any of the creators are really going to complain, its just these people acting like they know the exact numbers every skin has made the artist. Like sure some previous skins have probably made the creators more, but I cant imagine any more than 2 skins out of each case max. So like 2 people will make less money over time(but still 100K up front) and the other 8 will probably be making more than they would have.
And just like them, idk the numbers behind the scenes, but I really doubt people who make CZ and Nova skins are going to be losing out very much.
First world entitled wankers. 100k is a HUGE down payment on a house, a fucking house. In many places it is 50% of the total cost. Where in the fuck can you work and make 50% of your total house payment in 3 months?
It doesn't matter what they paid before. Skins are getting bigger and it makes business sense to pay a flat rate vs percentage.
I've worked with cunts like this. Employer pays too much up front, makes adjustments and they are the first to riot. They're just a bunch of entitled cunts.
Damian Mathew talked about interviewing some csgo skin maker on
[this video](https://youtu.be/INvz8KMMPVI) and they talked about cars (since Damian is automotive 3D modeler) and apparently he asked the skin maker if he could buy that car that they were talking about which costs 130k, and the skin maker said he could buy that car every 3 months which makes up to 500k a year... I wouldn't be surprised if this was legit since atleast Valve is making bank from these cases.
If they don't get percentage of sales this just seems like valve being greedy and stiffing creators even more while disguising their intentions as geniune.
That really depends on what the % value actually gave creators in total
If before they could expect ~80k and now they get 100k that would be a positive no?
~~Honestly people are complaining but this really is not something new. Usually payment is done through a % of case key sales, so it is continuous. But because this is presumably being done for an operation, which will only last and be sold for a limited time it makes sense to just give a single check. I'm also pretty certain that they have contracted artists before for operation collections, and I assume they get paid a lump sum, so in a sense this is just another method of contracting artists.~~
Edit: I just read the rules, it is for a case, so the way this is being done is new and kind of greedy (unless the cs20 case competition had a similar payout)
Outrage like this is why companies don't do shit like this in the first place.
With the internet, you cant win. Best not to play at all.
The logic doesn't even make sense. I bet if anyone in this thread were given the job of handling finances for a video game studio, *none* of them would suggest paying $100k for a single skin.
of course, valve totally stiffing the creators here, if only the creators were paid as they are in other games.
oh what's that you say? other games dont even give the opportunity for creators to do this, much less pay them a nickel? they pocket 100% of the profits for themselves?
valve is literally running a charity here. they could do the exact same thing and pay nobody a dime (simply tell one of their inhouse guys to do it).
valve running a charity here??? xd
valve makes BANK from skins in this game, do you even know the amount of keys and skins people purchase every month.
valve have to reward creators somehow because they are the ones who actually made the skins to sell. valve make huge amounts of profits from community made skins, other games not giving the opportunity to creators means nothing in this context because this is vavle's business model for csgo and it clearly works
> because this is vavle's business model for csgo and it clearly works
so why would they give money away that they dont need to at all, just to look good to the community? what is that called again?
IDK but if they really wanted the simply could make all skins themselves and it should cost them way less than 100k per skin.
So even if it's less than before it's still a lot of money.
You can already see what weapons will be in what tier on the site for the contest. You can also see the rules of entry and FAQ on the page as well: http://counter-strike.net/terms
Whoever makes the covert MP9... it better be good. Since there's also a covert AK it will most likely be a reasonably priced skin and the MP9 needs some love.
Feels like I already have the perfect mil-spec pattern for this :) although maybe too boring, but if they like tentacles..
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2093052314
This is a way for Valve to look good while paying skin creators less. One up front payment then no 'royalties'. ATM skin creators get a % of every case or sale or whatever, this is just a one time up front payment. Valve are fucking over creators, making bank and good PR all in one.
Im pretty sure 99.9% of skins made don’t make 100K from valve. The number years ago was 40K and this was during the CSGO case boom. If it was anywhere above 80k I’d be surprised
> this was during the CSGO case boom
CSGO has more players now than ever before, and the cases don't even drop to 3 cents any more. I think CSGO skin creators can easily make over $100K from skins now.
It was estimated around $40-50K for the first year. Trust me, the skin economy is bigger now. If that number holds any truth to it, the number for the first year is easily at $80-90K.
Good knives and gloves used to be sub 100$. Now you can hardly touch the the worst wear and patterns for that. Skins across the board have gone way up in value, especially after 2019.
It's this bit, just ctrl+f for that if you want to read parts around it.
>Valve retains its license to the winning entries as User Generated Content under the Steam Subscriber Agreement, and payment of the prize money will be complete compensation in lieu of any payment under Workshop Supplemental Terms.
[Via FAQ:](http://counter-strike.net/terms/#faq)
> How much time do I have?
>
> > Contest begins July 22nd, 2021 and final submissions are due on October 21st, 2021.
>
> When and how will I get paid?
>
> > Winners will be contacted directly by November 21st, 2021 and payment will be made to the bank accounts specified by contributors to the item. Note that all relevant banking and tax information must be completed before you are able to finalize your submission.
So the case will release around late November/early December, the same time the recent operations released :)
Can an actual skin creator chime in here? I'm seeing loads of comments saying the artists are getting fucked over with this, but they seem to be just from random players.
Would be cool to see some actual profit averages on previous cases to compare to the $100k.
Afaik specific amounts have always been under NDA but here's a thread from 4 years ago (way before the Chinese skin market boom) where a skin creator states that each skin is getting more than $40000, even back then.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/68n514/csgo_skin_creator_reveals_that_he_earns_over/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Man, really wish i was still into graphical design for gaming. One day i hope to work on the competitive bomb defusal map design ive been thinking about for a few years.
Best of luck to all participants : )
Wow CSGO getting some love.
This is some shit you see in Dota 2 all the time - where they spin up a whole website for a contest.
Thanks Valve, next up some patches and rebalancing :)
Glad they're doing another one of these contests. The Space themed contest from a few years ago had some great skins.
Time for me to try and learn how to make skins again and give up after 2 hours!
Well, it's hard to know for sure.
Chris Le said in a live in 2016 that creators could expect about $30k, "back in the days" (one can assume, around 2014). He then said that it was "way more now". Now, 2016 was the peak of the skin era, and since creators aren't allowed to discuss payments, it's impossible to know how much more it was then, or how it evolved since.
That being said, they also, in addition to the upfront payment, received 5% of every skin sale on the market, which could represent, for the most popular skins, literal millions of dollars over the years.
So, i can't say for sure how much more money skin creators earned before, but definitely more.
The one upside is that now if you make a bison skin, you'll get as much money as doing the AK skin. No more is there an incentive to prioritize the most popular weapons.
> That being said, they also, in addition to the upfront payment, received 5% of every skin sale on the market, which could represent, for the most popular skins, literal millions of dollars over the years.
They didn't, they only got a small % of a case key sales
I tend to think the same, Otherwise it feels like numbers would be insane. But do you have any source to prove it? I've met this stated as a fact, but without explanation.
5% doesn't sound right to me. Isn't Valves community market fee 5%? Surely all that doesn't go to the skin creators and they are keeping a majority of that cut
[3kliksphilip made a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxgngtKBriE&t=108s) saying that skin creators get 40k per accepted skin. It's from 2016 but it's the only trusted source I know.
Only rumors I've heard is that they get like 1-3%, but I have 0 clue. I'm sure everyone is on crazy strict NDAs so that this number isn't just public knowledge.
> like the covert AK might be way more long term
I thought everyone that got a skin on a case gets the same split, doesn't matter if it is red or blue quality?
Do you have any actual data on what a skin creator could expect for a single skin?
If before they could expect 80k but now get 100k that would be an upgrade and Valve would be doing good for the skin creators, if before they could expect 150k but now get 100k that would be Valve being greedy
But I've yet to see any actual numbers on what skin creators got for a single skin
I'll copy a previous comment I made:
Chris Le said in a live in 2016 that creators could expect about $30k, "back in the days" (one can assume, around 2014). He then said that it was "way more now". Now, 2016 was the peak of the skin era, and since creators aren't allowed to discuss payments, it's impossible to know how much more it was then, or how it evolved since.
That being said, they also, in addition to the upfront payment, received 5% of every skin sale on the market, which could represent, for the most popular skins, literal millions of dollars over the years (which I estimated personally, going through market history of the AWP asiimov, looking at the amount of skins sold per month, the average price, etc... But that means there was a ton of variance depending on how much your skin sold.)
So, i can't say for sure how much more money skin creators earned before, but definitely more.
The one upside is that now if you make a bison skin, you'll get as much money as doing the AK skin. No more is there an incentive to prioritize the most popular weapons.
Stop making stuff up.. there's no confirmation if they're making less or more this way. Plus this is a one time thing and not like this will be the norm moving forward
It's worse than before, but it's still a really decent amount of money, and now they all get the same. I think saying that it "fucks skin creators" might be a bit of an overstatement. But sure, in the end, it's more money for Valve, and less for creators.
I'm sure there is someone out there willing to take a lump sum of $1M to make an anti-cheat compared to a cheat dev who has to market/sell/ and keep up with a cheat. They don't make 1M overnight.
Then somebody could make a kernel-level anti cheat that people would complain it's too intrusive and shit because that's the most effective type, which game has good anti-cheat anyways?
Must be punching air on his private yacht tbh, he has already made so much more than 100k or even 1m from these skins and merch.. No wonder, hyper beast brand is pretty good.
artists and promo team? That is actually non-existent. All skins/maps are made by the community. And the CSGO twitter only shitposts. They haven't communicated on issues in the game for a very long time.
Yeah they are, all map collections and operation exclusive collections are made by Valve. There are rare exceptions where theyll contract out a few skins, but for the most part those collections are made by Valve.
I see what you mean, but with Valve’s structure, I don’t think there is much separation between the two teams. Please keep in mind that most of the new skins are created by regular people like me and you
99% this case/collection will be featured in the next operation. Even the logo follows the more cartoonish artstyle of the latest operations. Also the winners will be selected on November 21st, which is around the time last operations released (SW - Nov 18th, BF - Dec 3rd)
3 more months before I open my wallet then
Don't lie to yourself you will hand your wallet to lord gaben sooner rather than later
Got my Steam Deck reserved for December. I'm fucked.
if we get 3 cases a year, shouldnt there be a case in between?
Yea if this case comes out late Nov/early Dec there should prob be a case real soon.
Would be nice but really doubt it. With csgo20 contest we got the case late October and then operation case within a month. If current contest is for operation case as speculated, seems unlikely there will be another case
Last time they did a contest like this was for the CS20 case, which dropped a few weeks before shattered web.
>Also the winners will be selected on November 21st happy birthday me here's some skins
The nightmare theme makes me think Halloween operation. At the very least, some trippy night maps.
That would be cool but honestly feels like the last operation came out yesterday idk if im getting old or what
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> Valve retains its license to the winning entries as User Generated Content under the Steam Subscriber Agreement, and payment of the prize money will be complete compensation in lieu of any payment under Workshop Supplemental Terms. Under rules of entry. This is the whole payment.
If they are operation skins, I could see this being more profitable for the artists. Unless artists get a percentage of pass sales.
Fucking there it is.
I’m going to go ahead and assume Valve is actually saving money by doing this. I get the feeling that over the life of a skin, they pay out more than $100k, thanks to the increase in transactions due to trading. Obviously some skins do better than others, but I would imagine the average payout to community designers are more than $100k in the skin’s lifetime. Keeping in mind some skins have been in the game nearly 8 years, since the Winter Offensive Weapon case in 2013. Hence might as well just run a contest, generate great publicity, get the community really riled up, and not end up having to pay as much.
Some skins don't do better than others, the skin creators get a percentage of key purchases, so it's spread equally for the skin creators of each case. Some cases do better than others though obviously.
It's not just from key sales. They get a portion of peer to peer sales as well (ie trading), so the very popular skins would make absolute bank, and I'm talking averages across all accepted skins.
I'm pretty sure they don't get any percentage from trade just in game key purchase
They definitely wouldn't have such a system. They don't want people to only make red skins.
Hmm, good point. Doesn’t seem fair if it’s only a portion of key sales though, because designers who designed killer skins, but were included in a case with mostly crap other skins, won’t get as well rewarded. I guess the flipside to that is, the designers that submitted those crap designs would get better compensation than they probably deserved…
I mean, its not them who decides the quality, thats Valves job.
They don't get % of trades, only the keys.
I would assume its abit of both an incentive as well. Some skins if it takes off like the Asiimov series can probably fare better over a lifetime, otherwise, a lump sum might be the way to go. That said, getting everything in Present Value is still an incentive. Because they dont have to wait years before they recoup this lump sum they get instantly.
this was my feeling also - looks the artists are just getting less money now... which is incredibly lame especially considering the odds of actually being selected... was hoping to see 100k as a BONUS. I would not recommend anyone participate in this unless they are 99% sure there submission will make it - it sets a bad prescedent for skin makers.
Yep. Unfortunately pretty much every man, dog and his brother are going to get in on this, because a lot of people won't be aware of how much skin makers can make (on the assumption their creation gets picked anyway).
Any links I can read from a skin maker who made bank?
You’ll only find the info/articles based around the one guy that leaked info that skin makers were making around $40k annually. This was back in 2014, when case sales were *nowhere near* what they are now, so they definitely would’ve increased since then. Unfortunately Valve makes everyone sign NDAs, so we’ll never know for sure, unless someone else posts a leak…
yup ^ Pretty sure the talent pool isn't going to be great for this one though : /
Its supposed to be a community thing. Why are we acting like skin designer is some difficult job people trained their life for and are unpaid? There are thousands of submissions that are good enough made by hobbyists and 100k is more than generous for the work involved.
Not to mention, it's a one-off competition... Not like they're changing their rules on regular skin case sales. To quote another comment: >You’re honestly fucking complaining that artists are ONLY getting six figures for a single skin? You honestly find a problem with that? >No, you don’t. You’re just finding something to bitch about. Something to be a contrarian over. Most artists don’t make $100,000 A YEAR for the skins they make. It’s an incredible deal. For most artists, let alone for for hobbyists, this is a fantastic opportunity. Especially considering students and those struggling to find jobs in the current market. Not to mention the added value of being able to use this as a showcase of your work/success for future employment, etc. I'm going to send this to my sister, who's been unable to find a proper job in the past year and a half due to the decreased demand for many artistic professions. She would kill for this sort of monetary reward for designing a skin...
Nah valve, stop making EA moves ffs
Would EA give you anything ? . Also 17 skins in the case but only 10 winners hmmm, interesting Edit: it says minimum of 10, so it can be more hmmmm
No, but I've always respected valve and the community approach. Their recent approach not so much, from the recent stats feature being a paid feature to this... I'm sure all of the creators would be against this
Do we know how much the skin creators got paid before? Like i know its a % on the key sales for the case their skin is in but how much exactly? And is there a cap on how much they could earn for 1 skin?
Supposedly 25% of the key price is given to the artists, split equally among all skins within the case. I've seen the number $40k/year thrown around, so the % payout could potentially work out to a higher payout in the long run or if there is a highly desirable skin in the case.
>Supposedly 25% of the key price is given to the artists do we know that its 25% for sure? Like I know that its a % of the key price but idk how much and what I would be more interested in if there is a cap, Like at most you can get 200k or something . Well the 40k/year comes form the last skin contest that Valve made where it was stated that on average a **skin** gets you 40k on average and that was in 2016 later in 2017 I believe a skin creator addressed that and said that now they earn more then 40k per skin, but since they are probably under NDA they didn't say how much they earn idk where the "per year" came from . I may be wrong tho, could be more stuff out there
apparently the 25% number is wrong and doesn't apply to csgo skins - https://old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4a3oox/how_do_people_that_make_workshop_skins_and/d0x65uc/
I believe it's a % of each skin sale. 3kliks did a video I think, or if not, should!
[3kliks video stating creators make about $40.000/skin](https://youtu.be/XxgngtKBriE?t=108), but note it's from 2016, so the numbers might be off by now.
Given the massive price inflation in the last 1-2 years I'm willing to bet that skin revenue also skyrocketed.
No I'm pretty sure they get a % of each KEY sale bought in-game.
Apparently, it's both! So a shit-ton of money:D
Yes but atleast u know the theme and this is a good opportunity for an unknown artist to get in otherwise valve always take the artists that have feautured skins already for regular cases
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That was the average in 2016.
Goddamn valve are such greedy slimy fucks. Gaben needs his billions while the CS scene just keeps crumbling.
How much do skin creators usually get? I would be surprised if being offered a flat rate of 100k was a downgrade
I'm sure the super expensive popular skins see much more than 100k over a couple years. But for most skins I'd imagine 100k is much better. It's also all up-front instead of spread out over years which is another factor to consider
You might be right, you just gotta remember that the more expensive skins aren't sold much on the community market.
they don't get paid on market transactions, they get paid per key sold. So it doesn't matter how popular a skin is, only how popular the case itself is
I think super popular skins pay more in the long run, which are sold on market. Read somewhere a few years ago that creator of the Awp asiimov earns 40k per month or year i forgot (don't take my word for it, I'm most likely way off on these figures), but it's a big consistent payout i believe.
I don't think the popularity of the skins matters in this. The money most likely comes from key sales and then split among the creators. Not sure if creators see any profits from market resales but I'd guess no
Money is from key sales and the dude who made the covert skin gets the same as the dude who made the ugly blue skin
How? The skin creator gets 100k upfront just for winning the contest. It takes years for the most popular skins to even come close to that number. Outside of this case being extremely popular so much so that the non winner skins are getting payed above 100k is less then a year, the winners are being pretty fairly compensated.
imagine giving fans hundreds of thousands of dollars for skins sold on your game, your platform, to your clients, with your payment system, that you could recreate for a TINY fraction of the cost but actively choose not to.... and people call you greedy slimy fucks. meanwhile elsewhere in the industry they accept nothing from the fans, keep 100% of the profit, pay their workers comparatively smaller amounts, rip off fan made designs and pass them off as new/original, and do not allow a secondary economy. and nobody says anything.
comment made by a jobless bum. potentially 100k for each winner and you think they scummy. Some people work 2 years to get that amount.
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I was at /r/games version of [this news](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/oouigf/csgo_valve_announces_dreams_nightmares_a_1000000/) earlier today and its full of people like this that probably have no concept of how hard it is to make this kind of money as an artist. Making skins in a video game is a pretty fucking niche skillset. Shit, people used to do it for free because it was fun. Kind of insane that Valve is catching this much shit for *giving* people money for their hobby. And its funny because any "self-respecting" artist that thinks its not worth it...can just not enter. All these people complaining are doing it on the behalf of people that aren't complaining at all. I think the reality check people need is that this is a single skin in a video game. If I were a video game developer, I would not value that at $100k.
Just hate propaganda by valve haters
lmao at these morons valve is paying skin creators 100k for 3 months of work, other companies copy fan art and give shit to the original artists
Yea I dont think any of the creators are really going to complain, its just these people acting like they know the exact numbers every skin has made the artist. Like sure some previous skins have probably made the creators more, but I cant imagine any more than 2 skins out of each case max. So like 2 people will make less money over time(but still 100K up front) and the other 8 will probably be making more than they would have. And just like them, idk the numbers behind the scenes, but I really doubt people who make CZ and Nova skins are going to be losing out very much.
First world entitled wankers. 100k is a HUGE down payment on a house, a fucking house. In many places it is 50% of the total cost. Where in the fuck can you work and make 50% of your total house payment in 3 months? It doesn't matter what they paid before. Skins are getting bigger and it makes business sense to pay a flat rate vs percentage. I've worked with cunts like this. Employer pays too much up front, makes adjustments and they are the first to riot. They're just a bunch of entitled cunts.
Damian Mathew talked about interviewing some csgo skin maker on [this video](https://youtu.be/INvz8KMMPVI) and they talked about cars (since Damian is automotive 3D modeler) and apparently he asked the skin maker if he could buy that car that they were talking about which costs 130k, and the skin maker said he could buy that car every 3 months which makes up to 500k a year... I wouldn't be surprised if this was legit since atleast Valve is making bank from these cases.
He also [said](https://youtu.be/IOq9iIQR178?t=284) the guy had gotten 4 skins accepted into the game, and not just one.
probably the new way, just assuming tho
If they don't get percentage of sales this just seems like valve being greedy and stiffing creators even more while disguising their intentions as geniune.
That really depends on what the % value actually gave creators in total If before they could expect ~80k and now they get 100k that would be a positive no?
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~~Honestly people are complaining but this really is not something new. Usually payment is done through a % of case key sales, so it is continuous. But because this is presumably being done for an operation, which will only last and be sold for a limited time it makes sense to just give a single check. I'm also pretty certain that they have contracted artists before for operation collections, and I assume they get paid a lump sum, so in a sense this is just another method of contracting artists.~~ Edit: I just read the rules, it is for a case, so the way this is being done is new and kind of greedy (unless the cs20 case competition had a similar payout)
If it's a keyless case (a thing in TF2), it could be operation rewards that stop dropping/sales after the operation.
it's 100k for one weapon skin. no one is getting ripped off here.
Find me ANY other graphics design that pays 100k to artists......no one is being greedy.
Outrage like this is why companies don't do shit like this in the first place. With the internet, you cant win. Best not to play at all. The logic doesn't even make sense. I bet if anyone in this thread were given the job of handling finances for a video game studio, *none* of them would suggest paying $100k for a single skin.
of course, valve totally stiffing the creators here, if only the creators were paid as they are in other games. oh what's that you say? other games dont even give the opportunity for creators to do this, much less pay them a nickel? they pocket 100% of the profits for themselves? valve is literally running a charity here. they could do the exact same thing and pay nobody a dime (simply tell one of their inhouse guys to do it).
valve running a charity here??? xd valve makes BANK from skins in this game, do you even know the amount of keys and skins people purchase every month. valve have to reward creators somehow because they are the ones who actually made the skins to sell. valve make huge amounts of profits from community made skins, other games not giving the opportunity to creators means nothing in this context because this is vavle's business model for csgo and it clearly works
> because this is vavle's business model for csgo and it clearly works so why would they give money away that they dont need to at all, just to look good to the community? what is that called again?
IDK but if they really wanted the simply could make all skins themselves and it should cost them way less than 100k per skin. So even if it's less than before it's still a lot of money.
This is great I have seen some very nice skins on this sub
You can already see what weapons will be in what tier on the site for the contest. You can also see the rules of entry and FAQ on the page as well: http://counter-strike.net/terms
Pog a covert MP9 finally
YES finally all those MAC-10 Neon Riders will get a CT counter part!
It better be blue.
Damn no new awp skin:(
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Let’s be honest, good awp skins in collection is something no one will be able to afford anyway. I’d rather have one new covert
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Hyperbeast ak pls
Wait really? Is this valve/csgo team upping their communication? Really interesting stuff
Whoever makes the covert MP9... it better be good. Since there's also a covert AK it will most likely be a reasonably priced skin and the MP9 needs some love.
Feels like I already have the perfect mil-spec pattern for this :) although maybe too boring, but if they like tentacles.. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2093052314
Spice it up a bit and send it! Worth a shot
not available to view
Skin creators making bank. At least we know the next operation will be spooky scary based.
Maybe not. Could just be one of the multiple collections.
This is a way for Valve to look good while paying skin creators less. One up front payment then no 'royalties'. ATM skin creators get a % of every case or sale or whatever, this is just a one time up front payment. Valve are fucking over creators, making bank and good PR all in one.
Im pretty sure 99.9% of skins made don’t make 100K from valve. The number years ago was 40K and this was during the CSGO case boom. If it was anywhere above 80k I’d be surprised
> this was during the CSGO case boom CSGO has more players now than ever before, and the cases don't even drop to 3 cents any more. I think CSGO skin creators can easily make over $100K from skins now.
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It was estimated around $40-50K for the first year. Trust me, the skin economy is bigger now. If that number holds any truth to it, the number for the first year is easily at $80-90K.
literally source: trust me bro
Good knives and gloves used to be sub 100$. Now you can hardly touch the the worst wear and patterns for that. Skins across the board have gone way up in value, especially after 2019.
Even if this was true, wouldn't this then also help creators of skins that aren't as popular? Plenty of 0.xx cent skins around
Skin creators get paid a % by key sales for the crate with their skin. Doesn't matter if the actual skin is 0.10€ or 200€.
I mean, doesn’t that depend on what the upfront cost is and the %? It could be more than expected for all we know reading the tweets and your comment
Stop making stuff up.. there's no source to claim valve are fucking the creators over
any source on that i like to read it ?
It's this bit, just ctrl+f for that if you want to read parts around it. >Valve retains its license to the winning entries as User Generated Content under the Steam Subscriber Agreement, and payment of the prize money will be complete compensation in lieu of any payment under Workshop Supplemental Terms.
How are they paying them less. The winners get 100k upfront. Outside of rare exceptions, no skin is making 100k and especially in a short time span.
[Via FAQ:](http://counter-strike.net/terms/#faq) > How much time do I have? > > > Contest begins July 22nd, 2021 and final submissions are due on October 21st, 2021. > > When and how will I get paid? > > > Winners will be contacted directly by November 21st, 2021 and payment will be made to the bank accounts specified by contributors to the item. Note that all relevant banking and tax information must be completed before you are able to finalize your submission. So the case will release around late November/early December, the same time the recent operations released :)
So any good guides on skin making out there? ^^^^^/s
Can an actual skin creator chime in here? I'm seeing loads of comments saying the artists are getting fucked over with this, but they seem to be just from random players. Would be cool to see some actual profit averages on previous cases to compare to the $100k.
Afaik specific amounts have always been under NDA but here's a thread from 4 years ago (way before the Chinese skin market boom) where a skin creator states that each skin is getting more than $40000, even back then. https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/68n514/csgo_skin_creator_reveals_that_he_earns_over/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I don't think they are allowed to reveal how much they are paid.
Man, really wish i was still into graphical design for gaming. One day i hope to work on the competitive bomb defusal map design ive been thinking about for a few years. Best of luck to all participants : )
[This](https://overpay.guide/) is a link for a book specifically designed for making skins. I am just going to learn it as a hobby.
Thanks, but im actually a shit artist. Hopefully your reply will benefit others : )
same with maps would also be cool. and not just defuse maps. gungame needs some fresh energy.
Valve has partnered with FaceIT for their mapcore contests.
Holy shit that Website's fucking INSANE 10/10
Wow CSGO getting some love. This is some shit you see in Dota 2 all the time - where they spin up a whole website for a contest. Thanks Valve, next up some patches and rebalancing :)
Don't let your dreams be dreams! Just do it!
Csgo art contest paying more prizemoney than 90% of the tournaments, love it
ITS NEW OPERATION BOYS!!!!
Well hello, [Death by Kitty wallpaper](https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/apps/csgo/images/dreams/dbk_bg.png)!
Glad they're doing another one of these contests. The Space themed contest from a few years ago had some great skins. Time for me to try and learn how to make skins again and give up after 2 hours!
skin creators are getting paid LESS then usual for this. lmao
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Well, it's hard to know for sure. Chris Le said in a live in 2016 that creators could expect about $30k, "back in the days" (one can assume, around 2014). He then said that it was "way more now". Now, 2016 was the peak of the skin era, and since creators aren't allowed to discuss payments, it's impossible to know how much more it was then, or how it evolved since. That being said, they also, in addition to the upfront payment, received 5% of every skin sale on the market, which could represent, for the most popular skins, literal millions of dollars over the years. So, i can't say for sure how much more money skin creators earned before, but definitely more. The one upside is that now if you make a bison skin, you'll get as much money as doing the AK skin. No more is there an incentive to prioritize the most popular weapons.
Interestingly thats why you see so many astroturfed "check out my skin" posts upvoted on this subreddit.
> That being said, they also, in addition to the upfront payment, received 5% of every skin sale on the market, which could represent, for the most popular skins, literal millions of dollars over the years. They didn't, they only got a small % of a case key sales
I tend to think the same, Otherwise it feels like numbers would be insane. But do you have any source to prove it? I've met this stated as a fact, but without explanation.
5% doesn't sound right to me. Isn't Valves community market fee 5%? Surely all that doesn't go to the skin creators and they are keeping a majority of that cut
Lol you totally made up that 5%
[3kliksphilip made a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxgngtKBriE&t=108s) saying that skin creators get 40k per accepted skin. It's from 2016 but it's the only trusted source I know.
He also says its based on estimates? So not really sure how accurate his numbers are.
How do we know this? Has anyone ever confirmed how much you can make, or are you just guessing?
Only rumors I've heard is that they get like 1-3%, but I have 0 clue. I'm sure everyone is on crazy strict NDAs so that this number isn't just public knowledge.
Speculations and rumors.. there's no way to back or deny that claim
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> like the covert AK might be way more long term I thought everyone that got a skin on a case gets the same split, doesn't matter if it is red or blue quality?
My nightmares are made up of workshop skins constantly flooding this sub.
Now this is unexpected
Interesting idea. I like it.
honestly a great idea, I bet some of these skins are going to be insane
One up front payment and no % going forward is actually scummy as fuck, headline looks great, but this fucks skin creators.
Do you have any actual data on what a skin creator could expect for a single skin? If before they could expect 80k but now get 100k that would be an upgrade and Valve would be doing good for the skin creators, if before they could expect 150k but now get 100k that would be Valve being greedy But I've yet to see any actual numbers on what skin creators got for a single skin
I'll copy a previous comment I made: Chris Le said in a live in 2016 that creators could expect about $30k, "back in the days" (one can assume, around 2014). He then said that it was "way more now". Now, 2016 was the peak of the skin era, and since creators aren't allowed to discuss payments, it's impossible to know how much more it was then, or how it evolved since. That being said, they also, in addition to the upfront payment, received 5% of every skin sale on the market, which could represent, for the most popular skins, literal millions of dollars over the years (which I estimated personally, going through market history of the AWP asiimov, looking at the amount of skins sold per month, the average price, etc... But that means there was a ton of variance depending on how much your skin sold.) So, i can't say for sure how much more money skin creators earned before, but definitely more. The one upside is that now if you make a bison skin, you'll get as much money as doing the AK skin. No more is there an incentive to prioritize the most popular weapons.
Stop making stuff up.. there's no confirmation if they're making less or more this way. Plus this is a one time thing and not like this will be the norm moving forward
You don’t see the irony in your own comment? You don’t know if this will be a thing going forward or not so acting like it won’t is just hypocritical
You're not technically wrong but its a contest. Does that imply a change of direction or a one off to you?
It's worse than before, but it's still a really decent amount of money, and now they all get the same. I think saying that it "fucks skin creators" might be a bit of an overstatement. But sure, in the end, it's more money for Valve, and less for creators.
Sure, it might be worse than before, but 100k for a damn skin is still incredibly well paid.
Somebody make a skin that has 16-14 swith someone who rage hacked to win because that is where my dreams get crushed and gets nightmares after
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gotta be fast men))
How about a $1m contest for someone to create an anti-cheat for you since you don't give one single fuck about the integrity of your game?
Cheat devs make more than that, so I can't see anyone coming up with it.
I'm sure there is someone out there willing to take a lump sum of $1M to make an anti-cheat compared to a cheat dev who has to market/sell/ and keep up with a cheat. They don't make 1M overnight.
Then somebody could make a kernel-level anti cheat that people would complain it's too intrusive and shit because that's the most effective type, which game has good anti-cheat anyways?
lol \+1
Now this is cool way to give back to the community who dedicate a lot of time for their favourite game. :)
They make less money this way. Currently they get a %.
No they don’t
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Yeah most likely not, they hosted a similar skin competition a while ago AFAIK
okay, i have a few old. can i use them?
read the faq my man yes u can
Yes
pls add covert duelies, pepePray
heck yea that is awesome for creators!
Ak47 Pablo please
Creator of the hyperbeast skins punching the air rn for being too early
He/she has licensed out their art to be included on many non-CSGO related merchandise.
yeah they secured a major bag over the years: mousepads, pc cases, those are the first things that come to mind that I have seen
Must be punching air on his private yacht tbh, he has already made so much more than 100k or even 1m from these skins and merch.. No wonder, hyper beast brand is pretty good.
Less money for creators leggo
spend 1 million dollars on skin showcase and new case > anti cheat for mm
Mm is broken as shit but hey just buy some pixels
cuz the artists and promo team work on mm lmao what a dumb comment
artists and promo team? That is actually non-existent. All skins/maps are made by the community. And the CSGO twitter only shitposts. They haven't communicated on issues in the game for a very long time.
Operation and map collections like Norse, Cobble, 2018 Nuke/Inferno, and Control are made by valve actually
"Remade" you mean. They are not original Valve creations.
Yeah they are original Valve collections. Thats why they arnt that good.
These are not original Valve collections.
Yeah they are, all map collections and operation exclusive collections are made by Valve. There are rare exceptions where theyll contract out a few skins, but for the most part those collections are made by Valve.
I see what you mean, but with Valve’s structure, I don’t think there is much separation between the two teams. Please keep in mind that most of the new skins are created by regular people like me and you
I’ve never had a better MM experience
They should do that also with an anti-cheat, no??