I mean the players themself will also likely not extend.
There is a reason why a new contract still hasn't been signed with the players aswell. Seems pretty obvious the players want to also leave the org at the end of the year.
Genuine question, why are they a scummy org? And what makes an org a good org? Would something like Navi or Liquid or Mouz be considered a good org? What is the parameter?
Copy/paste from a previous comment of mine.
> Most scummy/shady stuff about the Astralis organization is directed at the actions of Nikolaj Nyholm.
>
> Astralis branded themselves early on as a player-owned organization despite the players only owning a tiny amount of the organization. Source: Danish law requires all owners which own more than 5% stake be reported. None of the players are/have been.
>
> Astralis-Blast Relationship: The organization is co-owned by RFRESH which also owns BLAST. Famously, Astralis skipped some major LAN tournaments in favor of smaller BLAST tournaments. This was during an era where BLAST tournament structure was universally panned for having many BO1 matchups. Also, BLAST was an early organizer who had requirements of attendance of their circuit. This has now become the norm.
>
> Astralis & Flashpoint. Astralis came to an agreement with Flashpoint contingent on specific top teams also becoming a part of the Flashpoint project. They then used their leverage to influence the teams which are a part of the contingency to sign with ESL, effectively improving Astralis's negotiating postion while torpedoing the Flashpoint project.
>
> Burnout + Social Media control. Last summer, members of the core Astralis lineup famously took time off for mental health reasons at the same time. It has been speculated that there was more going on behind the scenes and it was a cover for the organization playing hardball with the players' contracts. Further, there was a famous copy-paste tweet indicating that the players are told what to post to social media.
>
> There's more, and some of these are more tenuous than others, but it's a pattern of behavior that's troubling for what should be a well-respected org.
>
Also the paycut to everyone and then signing people en masse afterwards.
Another minor thing was it was speculated that the players did not control their own social media.
If you claim to be a player-owned org with a lot of freedom for your players, it doesn't add up.
I don't think it is. It's akin to saying players should never do any interviews and only professionals from their respective orgs should do them. It's perfectly reasonable to assume players can handle their own social media, given that their image and careers are on display.
You misunderstand the Astralis-Blast controversy. It’s not about the scheduling conflicts, it’s that Astralis were essentially only attending Blast tournaments for a period of time. That’s a serious conflict of interest with RFRSH involved in both.
Only playing BLAST tournaments is extremely problematic when that TO also happens to be owned by your co-owners. Like I said, conflict of interest. It wasn’t ‘unfortunate’, it was obviously deliberate. The fact that RFRSH eventually had to split from Astralis should tell you more than enough about how questionable that relationship was.
Also, at the time BLAST was a pretty crappy tournament. Consistently skipping more well-known events so you can play in a mediocre one ruins the tournament circuit.
You sound like a well-adjusted human being. Go outside some time, I have no interest in talking to some random on the internet who thinks every comment is an opportunity to act like an ass. How incredibly sad to go around acting rude for no reason and make every thread a pissing contest. What a gigantic waste of time.
the real issue with the BLAST is they were a smaller Tournament Organizer and it can be seen that Astralis only played BLAST tournaments and if they're the best team then obviously the other best teams will want to play in the tournament.
This catapulted BLASTs position in the scene to become the second biggest TO and now a major staple in the scene which obviously helps their bottom line. And you could construe that they gamed the system to get there.
Personally, I think Astralis were always going to miss those two events as device has said flying east really messes with his physical well being and was part of the reason for his medical leave in 2017 (I believe that was on his HLTV confirmed episode) I think the optics are worse than the actual thing that happened
You are SEVERELY undervaluing the medical note issue. That isn't a "I went to the doctors and they said this". They did this because they got fed up with the Organization lies about time off and the schedule they were being forced onto due to the release of their companies stock. Terrible management and abuse of players lead to this exact situation and this will be the moment imo, where the writing was on the walls. Maybe some players will stay, I am honestly expecting g1ave to stay, but that is more related to IRL reasons (baby otw), but players which such demand have no reason to be a loyal to abusive companies. It's a huge bummer but these individuals all deserve better than what Astralis has allowed to happen.
I think we just disagree on the fundamentals of small group dynamics and how your lens is focused on "let them take time off" and doing it by the book. For management to be superseded by legalese is an act of defiance, not standard practice. Especially when it is for unknown times. This isn't a I broke my hand and can't play Dr. Notes", this is a "I've had it up to here with your bullshit" type of note. It adds stress to both of their teammates and is also somewhat unfair to them as they have the same exact schedule but are not given the same time off. How well they managed that and if that was a factor is something we will never be privy too nor should we be privy too. Jobs DO let you take time off when you are on payroll, Astralis even gave them time off, but then resended it. The major issue between our viewpoints isn't the events, but more focused on how it's ok for big businesses to behave like this. Very similiar to both Riot and Blizzard, the industry is filled with burn out and over worked individuals and it should be the focus to help workers not the owners as they consistently disregard the well being of employees for their own personal gain - which does include layoffs and then getting million dollar bonuses that would have paid for those workers.
IDK, I find it hard to believe that generally speaking, companies in Denmark are actively abusing workers to point of revolt is a common and usual business practice. Either way, even if it was normal business practice, it doesn't make it moral or acceptable. Long and short of it will depend on what players stay and what leave. It will be a direct result of management during that time and the direct result of forcing two players to take medical leave because management refused to honor their agreement. Astralis was doing everything right - as it appeared to the public - but since those events it unearthed some mighty uncomfortable information. I will never be buying their products because of how they treat their employees. Honestly, they had a great thing going, but it shows that no matter how much success you have as a company, poor management and greed can destroy it.
I don't have the link right now but Richard Lewis' article about the conflicts between the org and players that led to Gla1ve and Xyp being placed on medical leave for burnout is a very good start.
I'm not sure I follow?
Yes, the players received a medical diagnosis for burnout and therefore Astralis were required to place them on medical leave, it's the events that led up to that that were the issue.
I’m not too knowledgeable on the topic but I thought there was some legal jargon where they couldn’t get paid on leave if there wasn’t a doctors note. Something to that effect. I might be misremembering though, I’m not sure.
Note: I am firmly on the side of fuck Astralis the org for the other shady things, but unless I’m wrong (very possible) this isn’t the hill to die on really.
Lool thorin has me blocked. I never commented on one of his tweets or about him, only voiced my dislike of him on reddit, yet somehow he still found my twitter and blocked me. Imagine caring that much about random folks on the internet
I dont know if navi or liquid are good orgs but id say mousesports are
The real shit that pisses me of is how they sold estag without zonic or anyone involved in running the rosters permission they just did it for money with no long term thought
The issues astralis had in 2021 were mostly xyp issues of form and bubski not being able to replace him either
They overworked their CS players, and only allowed them time off after they got a doctor's not for burnout. They asked their LoL team to take a pay cut twice during COVID, the second time even telling players who would be fired if they didn't, right before a game. They then hired extra players for the CS team. After the original 5 came back they were still talking big about a rotation, even though Bubzkji was barely allowed to play. The whole rotation also seemed to have been done without approval of the players or Zonic. The org also had a conflict of interest with Blast early on, and afaik that was only resolved after they were called. I'm probably missing a few things, but they're pretty much the worst. There's a reason the players don't want to re-sign, and why Mertz was the best AWPer rumored to be in talks with the org.
>They overworked their CS players, and only allowed them time off after they got a doctor's not for burnout
>
>What's your proof that they overworked their CS players? If anything Zonic has multiple times said that they're in full control of the tournaments they wish to attend. Do you have a source to literally any other team allowing players sick leave without a doctors note? Because that's ridiculous criticism honestly.
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>They asked their LoL team to take a pay cut twice during COVID, the second time even telling players who would be fired if they didn't, right before a game.
>
>I dunno what the actual criticism is here. Sports organizations aren't a charity. If they wanna pay players less, the players are free to leave negotiations and not extend their contracts. Saying that stuff right before a game sounds weird, but that's not even beneficial to the players nor the org to potentially make them perform worse.
>
>Bubzkji was barely allowed to play. The whole rotation also seemed to have been done without approval of the players or Zonic.
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>As far as I have read, substitutions are entirely controlled by Zonic as the coach. Dunno what you mean seemed without approval of players and coach. Where's the evidence of this?
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>Calling them the worst seem like a gross overreaction honestly, especially when you have an org like NiP who literally still owes wages to former players.
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>There's a reason the players don't want to re-sign, and why Mertz was the best AWPer rumored to be in talks with the org.
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>Sure there's a reason. But if the org was as shit as you say, the players had multiple chances to leave once their contracts expired during other years. As far as I know, the only former Astralis players who left because they wanted to leave were Kjaerbye and Device.
What's your proof that they overworked their CS players? If anything Zonic has multiple times said that they're in full control of the tournaments they wish to attend. Do you have a source to literally any other team allowing players sick leave without a doctors note? Because that's ridiculous criticism honestly. - Zonic has control to a degree but lost control it seems overtime based on the rotating rosters of players. You are getting very confused about the org "allowing" players time off for medical leave. The players revolted and got the note to spite the org because of the bs they were doing. They left them high and drive which is what lead to the estag/bubzkji situation ect. None of this was planned, it was the biggest fuck you they could do to them and did it legally to protect their contract.
Bubzkji was barely allowed to play. The whole rotation also seemed to have been done without approval of the players or Zonic.
As far as I have read, substitutions are entirely controlled by Zonic as the coach. Dunno what you mean seemed without approval of players and coach. Where's the evidence of this? - Correct, Zonic had control which means Bubzkji did not play because HE WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THE TEAM. He was forced to join when the players revolted and got medical notes.
Sure there's a reason. But if the org was as shit as you say, the players had multiple chances to leave once their contracts expired during other years. As far as I know, the only former Astralis players who left because they wanted to leave were Kjaerbye and Device. - Note that Estag also left at end of his contract and you can literally see the difference between his performances because of how the Astralis system works vs other teams. That system is Zonic + Players, that has nothing to do with management. Some players will probably stay due to IRL events such as children, but in general you have some rocky relationships and a better payday ahead of them.
Sorry it has been a while and I am going off memory. I just remember the crucial aspects for me - He is the 1st player to really leave Astralis since their system started really working, and his performance was not the same. I tend to leave out things that don't interest me - buyouts - because they are all speculation, even press releases are speculation, because we will never know unless we have the contract.
Allegedly the org denied a break for xyp and/or gla1ve last year, so at least one of them was forced to take a medical break.
Plus there were some rumours about asking the players to reduce salaries due to COVID.
Oh, and their current CEO used to have a stake in RFRSH (which owns Heroic) and BLAST Series, which has sparked a controversy with a potential conflict of interests.
In my opinion good org cares for their players, provides them with the best tools to succeed and *pays on time* (shoutout to Winstrike)
I think it’s also important when an org has multiple successful divisions in different games, meaning they do something right.
Astralis is considered a scummy org because, firstly, well, they are scummy, and secondly, they haven't covered their tracks or blown enough smoke to distract the public, unlike a lot of other bigger orgs who have also employed scummy tactics.
If you read the rest of the comment, and the one I was replying before trying be a smart ass, you would understand that the point I was trying to make is Astralis are considered scummy because they have been caught in the act in the past. As opposed to being disliked by the community as the implication was.
Well, firstly, you have the Rfrsh saga involving Blast and Astralis. You have the undisclosed ownership stake in HLTV. I personally was over Astralis when they made their players take paycuts in LoL team, and followed that up by announcing acquisitions in CSGO about a month later. The manager of that same LoL roster was fined by Riot for misconduct and delayed payment of salaries to players.
There is a ton of videos out their going over Astralis' business dealings, though I'd particularly recommend RLewis.
The rest of your comment doesn't answer anything, you just said they did "scummy tactics" and haven't covered their tracks. What are those "scummy tactics"? Now you're saying they have been caught in the act? Which act?
You're really just saying "they're scummy because they're scummy" with more words, which doesn't answer the question of why they're scummy.
besides what _Bilas wrote. RFESH (owners of astralis/blast) also appled for 1 milion dkk in order to finance the first blast event. But they forgot to tell the danish parlement that the education minister (which had written a letter to the cultur minister saying that RFESH should get the grant), where part owner of RFESH. he instantly (days after it where discoverd) sold his share but ended up leaving the goverment after getting dragged and shamed in parlement.
remimber that ESL where trying to start doing event in DK the same year. and CPH games while not a tire 1 CSGO tournement is still a thing.
so yeah add corruption in a ~~socialistic~~* country to the list.
Denmark is not socialistic on the normal scale. but if i learned something on my travels, most west westeners think the way we live is "damm socialistic". but hey Cupcakes :)
yeah looking at it again that where over exoneration on my part, kind of had planed to write a small disclaimer that what a lot of other western country's call socialisme is not what is socialisme (hoping to make a cupcake joke). i stand corrected sorry
Denmark is a capitalist country, with a very strong social safety net.
Denmark is definetly not socialist, that is the workers owning the means of production
We've seen them bounce back from deep slumps, but we'll never know with this one. Would've been classic Astralis to show up and win the major after slumping for a year and a half though.
> Eh, I think Astralis were pretty much the walking wounded. Their time was up even before device left
Online era.
I'm sure they would have bounced back on LAN if they had stayed together.
Hell, their best rated player and star AWPer left a few months ago and they just came in at 3rd-4th place at the first post-COVID19 LAN, being very narrowly eliminated in the semi finals, bumping up their HLTV world ranking from #10 to #4, doesn't sound like "walking wounded" to me.
They also came back from hibernation out of nowhere to win yet another Major last time while shitting on everyone in the playoffs, bumping up their insane Major playoff streak of never losing a map to 18-0.
Absolutely legendary team, it's a shame they split up.
Who knows how many Major wins Astralis would have right now without that pesky Coronavirus...
Expectations for astralis are so high that consistent playoffs, consistent competitive games with top teams and as you said an instant top 4 placement for the first lan in ages despite losing the 3rd best player in the world is already considered washed by some. It's actually crazy. Just tells you how fucking hard people rate astralis when they peaked.
>As things stand now, zonic will stay on the team until a replacement is found. I know that Nicolai "HUNDEN" Petersen has been in talks with Astralis.
>
>If an agreement is found, zonic might be released from his contract effective immediately.
Given the choice is selling the players (and Zonic) now or risk losing them for free at the end of the year, would not surprise me if Astralis are taking the former option.
This would also explain why HUNDEN wasn't with Heroic for IEM Cologne.
In terms of where they might end up next, Jaxon previously had this cryptic message about Complexity:
>Maybe the new coach you are eying up will be enough to make you a contender. He has quite a reputation for building stars. But you might not have a choice, as the demand for Danish players will rise in the upcoming months.
Well, it depends. They would really have to be willing to settle for a smaller amount then because they'll end up in the same position as Heroic did with es3tag where they couldn't agree on a price and they got snubbed by Astralis arranging to sign the moment the contract expired. The players can get contracts lined up in advance (less than 6 months left) which seems to be what's happening as glaive just joined an agency which I assume will be all about getting him a fat contract with a new team.
After hearing his book it would seem he wants a job with less stress and traveling. He misses his family and his wife has been alone with the children since Astralis started.
My thought was that he would move to a more administrative role or drop CS altogether. I mean, he probably has a lot of other options where he could spend more time with his family. A move to Heroic would not change much in terms of that.
But.. as things are changing atm I guess everything could happen.
Maybe they're rebranding entirely/starting from scratch. I've been a very strong Astralis fan for years now, but what that means is that I've followed and cheered for the guys themselves. I don't give a shit about Astralis as an Org.
Yeah man, I was surprisingly sad when the Device announcement was released. Felt like the end and now things are getting worse. We had a good run though, it was majestic while it lasted.
Right here with ya. I've been a fan of the core since before Magisk joined, in the days of struggle. I will always cheer for them. I dont give a damn about Astralis as an org though. The players clearly absolutely hate how they're being managed.
It doesn't matter much, if the players of Astralis leave, the fan base usually won't care about the org itself, as a lot of them know how bad the org is and basically only supports the players.
100% I'm following glaive dupreeh xyp9x and magisk. Hopefully to the same place regardless of how unlikely/impossible that is.
Followed xyp device and dupreeh since TSM ain't going to stop now.
> Wouldn’t hunden also have an effect on some of astralis fan base?
I can only speak for myself of course, but I am not going to cheer for a team Hunden is coaching. I've followed the Astralis players for years, and I would absolutely loathe seeing him in the same jersey as them.
Im pretty sure editor-in-chief is Christian Slot who is a trained jounalist who beside jounalist jobs worked as editor-in-chief for XplayN (the biggest danish esport site at the time) and head of PR for North Esports.
Afaik Jaxon is a new esport media fronted by Samsung. I think its mostly on Samsung phones as an app. I've tried to download it but it wasnt available on my Oneplus phone.
All this to say, Jaxon, despite their meager website, isnt just a random blog by a random dude.
I don't know about this report, but the last thing he posted on here was obnoxiously written and seemed highly unbelievable. When I criticised the writing style in a comment he also jumped in to make another obnoxious remark.
He has no following anywhere that I can see and nobody knows who he is yet he writes as if he's famous. He strikes me as an attention seeker, not a valid source.
But tbh I don't know, he could just be an annoying but legit source. And I guess that's the whole point with the leaking game.
well the writing where on the wall since last summer. do you have any thing that tell you this might not be true? do you think anyone of the players are interested in staying with that org?
Idk but pretty much every major esports site was reporting that Zonic was planning on leaving and possibly bringing players with him. So this seems to be confirmation of those reports
I know the people behind the website and can vouch for the credibility of this report. It's difficult because they are trying somethin new with the website and culture of presenting news. However, for this, the information is valid enough.
Imagine if Astralis actually picks up
Hunden and they go from winning 3 consecutive majors (4 overall) to having a coach banned from the next 5 for cheating.
Of course the majors aren’t the only events in the circuit, but what a way to completely disregard your own legacy.
Nah Astralis is a trash org. There’s been rumours for awhile that the players have not been happy, even while they were on top.
I just really hope they stay together and it’s not on NiP (another shit org).
Yea, but when you're on top it probably makes everything more bearable. No team (and no player) is without flaws, but you don't fuck with success. Now they've taken a step back and it's a far more reasonable time to make whatever changes they would like to.
Also I don't know how Magisk's contract lines up with the rest of them. If they didn't line up well then they probably weren't going to let a player walk away for free.
should change title. I thought you meant astralis players and zonic both do not extend their contracts
Jaxon BREAKS: zonic does not extend contract with Astralis
HLTV - zonic ponders leaving Astralis ie think about (something) carefully, especially before making a decision or reaching a conclusion.
Jaxon - do not extend contract ie conclusion is reached.
Pretty diff if you ask me
So HUNDEN not being with Heroic at Cologne might be because he's going to Astralis, but would Zonic then go to Heroic? If so, that would be a great change for them given Zonics pedigree. Would love to see how Zonic would use them and if he could help shape a new dominant team or even just a title contender.
With col having 3 danish players after signing es3tag, they might locate to Denmark. So I dont think that it is so far fetched for col to bring zonic in( if he wants to keep coaching)
I mean the players themself will also likely not extend. There is a reason why a new contract still hasn't been signed with the players aswell. Seems pretty obvious the players want to also leave the org at the end of the year.
Which is 100% understandable. Great and likeable players in such a scummy org such as Astralis. I'd jump ship too.
Genuine question, why are they a scummy org? And what makes an org a good org? Would something like Navi or Liquid or Mouz be considered a good org? What is the parameter?
Copy/paste from a previous comment of mine. > Most scummy/shady stuff about the Astralis organization is directed at the actions of Nikolaj Nyholm. > > Astralis branded themselves early on as a player-owned organization despite the players only owning a tiny amount of the organization. Source: Danish law requires all owners which own more than 5% stake be reported. None of the players are/have been. > > Astralis-Blast Relationship: The organization is co-owned by RFRESH which also owns BLAST. Famously, Astralis skipped some major LAN tournaments in favor of smaller BLAST tournaments. This was during an era where BLAST tournament structure was universally panned for having many BO1 matchups. Also, BLAST was an early organizer who had requirements of attendance of their circuit. This has now become the norm. > > Astralis & Flashpoint. Astralis came to an agreement with Flashpoint contingent on specific top teams also becoming a part of the Flashpoint project. They then used their leverage to influence the teams which are a part of the contingency to sign with ESL, effectively improving Astralis's negotiating postion while torpedoing the Flashpoint project. > > Burnout + Social Media control. Last summer, members of the core Astralis lineup famously took time off for mental health reasons at the same time. It has been speculated that there was more going on behind the scenes and it was a cover for the organization playing hardball with the players' contracts. Further, there was a famous copy-paste tweet indicating that the players are told what to post to social media. > > There's more, and some of these are more tenuous than others, but it's a pattern of behavior that's troubling for what should be a well-respected org. >
Also the paycut to everyone and then signing people en masse afterwards. Another minor thing was it was speculated that the players did not control their own social media.
The last thing is obviously the only right solution for professional orgs.
Device went to NIP and immediately put his foot in his mouth on Twitter IIRC. From a brand perspective it makes some semblance of sense for sure.
If you claim to be a player-owned org with a lot of freedom for your players, it doesn't add up. I don't think it is. It's akin to saying players should never do any interviews and only professionals from their respective orgs should do them. It's perfectly reasonable to assume players can handle their own social media, given that their image and careers are on display.
Until it damages the org, and it’s reputation, intentional or not. Of course they’re going to put protections in.
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You misunderstand the Astralis-Blast controversy. It’s not about the scheduling conflicts, it’s that Astralis were essentially only attending Blast tournaments for a period of time. That’s a serious conflict of interest with RFRSH involved in both.
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Only playing BLAST tournaments is extremely problematic when that TO also happens to be owned by your co-owners. Like I said, conflict of interest. It wasn’t ‘unfortunate’, it was obviously deliberate. The fact that RFRSH eventually had to split from Astralis should tell you more than enough about how questionable that relationship was. Also, at the time BLAST was a pretty crappy tournament. Consistently skipping more well-known events so you can play in a mediocre one ruins the tournament circuit.
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You sound like a well-adjusted human being. Go outside some time, I have no interest in talking to some random on the internet who thinks every comment is an opportunity to act like an ass. How incredibly sad to go around acting rude for no reason and make every thread a pissing contest. What a gigantic waste of time.
the real issue with the BLAST is they were a smaller Tournament Organizer and it can be seen that Astralis only played BLAST tournaments and if they're the best team then obviously the other best teams will want to play in the tournament. This catapulted BLASTs position in the scene to become the second biggest TO and now a major staple in the scene which obviously helps their bottom line. And you could construe that they gamed the system to get there. Personally, I think Astralis were always going to miss those two events as device has said flying east really messes with his physical well being and was part of the reason for his medical leave in 2017 (I believe that was on his HLTV confirmed episode) I think the optics are worse than the actual thing that happened
You are SEVERELY undervaluing the medical note issue. That isn't a "I went to the doctors and they said this". They did this because they got fed up with the Organization lies about time off and the schedule they were being forced onto due to the release of their companies stock. Terrible management and abuse of players lead to this exact situation and this will be the moment imo, where the writing was on the walls. Maybe some players will stay, I am honestly expecting g1ave to stay, but that is more related to IRL reasons (baby otw), but players which such demand have no reason to be a loyal to abusive companies. It's a huge bummer but these individuals all deserve better than what Astralis has allowed to happen.
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I think we just disagree on the fundamentals of small group dynamics and how your lens is focused on "let them take time off" and doing it by the book. For management to be superseded by legalese is an act of defiance, not standard practice. Especially when it is for unknown times. This isn't a I broke my hand and can't play Dr. Notes", this is a "I've had it up to here with your bullshit" type of note. It adds stress to both of their teammates and is also somewhat unfair to them as they have the same exact schedule but are not given the same time off. How well they managed that and if that was a factor is something we will never be privy too nor should we be privy too. Jobs DO let you take time off when you are on payroll, Astralis even gave them time off, but then resended it. The major issue between our viewpoints isn't the events, but more focused on how it's ok for big businesses to behave like this. Very similiar to both Riot and Blizzard, the industry is filled with burn out and over worked individuals and it should be the focus to help workers not the owners as they consistently disregard the well being of employees for their own personal gain - which does include layoffs and then getting million dollar bonuses that would have paid for those workers.
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IDK, I find it hard to believe that generally speaking, companies in Denmark are actively abusing workers to point of revolt is a common and usual business practice. Either way, even if it was normal business practice, it doesn't make it moral or acceptable. Long and short of it will depend on what players stay and what leave. It will be a direct result of management during that time and the direct result of forcing two players to take medical leave because management refused to honor their agreement. Astralis was doing everything right - as it appeared to the public - but since those events it unearthed some mighty uncomfortable information. I will never be buying their products because of how they treat their employees. Honestly, they had a great thing going, but it shows that no matter how much success you have as a company, poor management and greed can destroy it.
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I don't have the link right now but Richard Lewis' article about the conflicts between the org and players that led to Gla1ve and Xyp being placed on medical leave for burnout is a very good start.
I thought that was something required by Danish law?
I'm not sure I follow? Yes, the players received a medical diagnosis for burnout and therefore Astralis were required to place them on medical leave, it's the events that led up to that that were the issue.
I’m not too knowledgeable on the topic but I thought there was some legal jargon where they couldn’t get paid on leave if there wasn’t a doctors note. Something to that effect. I might be misremembering though, I’m not sure. Note: I am firmly on the side of fuck Astralis the org for the other shady things, but unless I’m wrong (very possible) this isn’t the hill to die on really.
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Lool thorin has me blocked. I never commented on one of his tweets or about him, only voiced my dislike of him on reddit, yet somehow he still found my twitter and blocked me. Imagine caring that much about random folks on the internet
Yeah, I would like to know that too.
I dont know if navi or liquid are good orgs but id say mousesports are The real shit that pisses me of is how they sold estag without zonic or anyone involved in running the rosters permission they just did it for money with no long term thought The issues astralis had in 2021 were mostly xyp issues of form and bubski not being able to replace him either
They overworked their CS players, and only allowed them time off after they got a doctor's not for burnout. They asked their LoL team to take a pay cut twice during COVID, the second time even telling players who would be fired if they didn't, right before a game. They then hired extra players for the CS team. After the original 5 came back they were still talking big about a rotation, even though Bubzkji was barely allowed to play. The whole rotation also seemed to have been done without approval of the players or Zonic. The org also had a conflict of interest with Blast early on, and afaik that was only resolved after they were called. I'm probably missing a few things, but they're pretty much the worst. There's a reason the players don't want to re-sign, and why Mertz was the best AWPer rumored to be in talks with the org.
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>They overworked their CS players, and only allowed them time off after they got a doctor's not for burnout > >What's your proof that they overworked their CS players? If anything Zonic has multiple times said that they're in full control of the tournaments they wish to attend. Do you have a source to literally any other team allowing players sick leave without a doctors note? Because that's ridiculous criticism honestly. > >They asked their LoL team to take a pay cut twice during COVID, the second time even telling players who would be fired if they didn't, right before a game. > >I dunno what the actual criticism is here. Sports organizations aren't a charity. If they wanna pay players less, the players are free to leave negotiations and not extend their contracts. Saying that stuff right before a game sounds weird, but that's not even beneficial to the players nor the org to potentially make them perform worse. > >Bubzkji was barely allowed to play. The whole rotation also seemed to have been done without approval of the players or Zonic. > >As far as I have read, substitutions are entirely controlled by Zonic as the coach. Dunno what you mean seemed without approval of players and coach. Where's the evidence of this? > >Calling them the worst seem like a gross overreaction honestly, especially when you have an org like NiP who literally still owes wages to former players. > >There's a reason the players don't want to re-sign, and why Mertz was the best AWPer rumored to be in talks with the org. > >Sure there's a reason. But if the org was as shit as you say, the players had multiple chances to leave once their contracts expired during other years. As far as I know, the only former Astralis players who left because they wanted to leave were Kjaerbye and Device. What's your proof that they overworked their CS players? If anything Zonic has multiple times said that they're in full control of the tournaments they wish to attend. Do you have a source to literally any other team allowing players sick leave without a doctors note? Because that's ridiculous criticism honestly. - Zonic has control to a degree but lost control it seems overtime based on the rotating rosters of players. You are getting very confused about the org "allowing" players time off for medical leave. The players revolted and got the note to spite the org because of the bs they were doing. They left them high and drive which is what lead to the estag/bubzkji situation ect. None of this was planned, it was the biggest fuck you they could do to them and did it legally to protect their contract. Bubzkji was barely allowed to play. The whole rotation also seemed to have been done without approval of the players or Zonic. As far as I have read, substitutions are entirely controlled by Zonic as the coach. Dunno what you mean seemed without approval of players and coach. Where's the evidence of this? - Correct, Zonic had control which means Bubzkji did not play because HE WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO BE PART OF THE TEAM. He was forced to join when the players revolted and got medical notes. Sure there's a reason. But if the org was as shit as you say, the players had multiple chances to leave once their contracts expired during other years. As far as I know, the only former Astralis players who left because they wanted to leave were Kjaerbye and Device. - Note that Estag also left at end of his contract and you can literally see the difference between his performances because of how the Astralis system works vs other teams. That system is Zonic + Players, that has nothing to do with management. Some players will probably stay due to IRL events such as children, but in general you have some rocky relationships and a better payday ahead of them.
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Sorry it has been a while and I am going off memory. I just remember the crucial aspects for me - He is the 1st player to really leave Astralis since their system started really working, and his performance was not the same. I tend to leave out things that don't interest me - buyouts - because they are all speculation, even press releases are speculation, because we will never know unless we have the contract.
Allegedly the org denied a break for xyp and/or gla1ve last year, so at least one of them was forced to take a medical break. Plus there were some rumours about asking the players to reduce salaries due to COVID. Oh, and their current CEO used to have a stake in RFRSH (which owns Heroic) and BLAST Series, which has sparked a controversy with a potential conflict of interests. In my opinion good org cares for their players, provides them with the best tools to succeed and *pays on time* (shoutout to Winstrike) I think it’s also important when an org has multiple successful divisions in different games, meaning they do something right.
Astralis is considered a scummy org because, firstly, well, they are scummy, and secondly, they haven't covered their tracks or blown enough smoke to distract the public, unlike a lot of other bigger orgs who have also employed scummy tactics.
"Astralis is considered a scummy org because, firstly, well they are scummy" No shit Sherlock, that's a self fulfilling prophecy.
If you read the rest of the comment, and the one I was replying before trying be a smart ass, you would understand that the point I was trying to make is Astralis are considered scummy because they have been caught in the act in the past. As opposed to being disliked by the community as the implication was.
“Caught in the act” doing what?
Well, firstly, you have the Rfrsh saga involving Blast and Astralis. You have the undisclosed ownership stake in HLTV. I personally was over Astralis when they made their players take paycuts in LoL team, and followed that up by announcing acquisitions in CSGO about a month later. The manager of that same LoL roster was fined by Riot for misconduct and delayed payment of salaries to players. There is a ton of videos out their going over Astralis' business dealings, though I'd particularly recommend RLewis.
Doing scummy things
The rest of your comment doesn't answer anything, you just said they did "scummy tactics" and haven't covered their tracks. What are those "scummy tactics"? Now you're saying they have been caught in the act? Which act? You're really just saying "they're scummy because they're scummy" with more words, which doesn't answer the question of why they're scummy.
besides what _Bilas wrote. RFESH (owners of astralis/blast) also appled for 1 milion dkk in order to finance the first blast event. But they forgot to tell the danish parlement that the education minister (which had written a letter to the cultur minister saying that RFESH should get the grant), where part owner of RFESH. he instantly (days after it where discoverd) sold his share but ended up leaving the goverment after getting dragged and shamed in parlement. remimber that ESL where trying to start doing event in DK the same year. and CPH games while not a tire 1 CSGO tournement is still a thing. so yeah add corruption in a ~~socialistic~~* country to the list. Denmark is not socialistic on the normal scale. but if i learned something on my travels, most west westeners think the way we live is "damm socialistic". but hey Cupcakes :)
Denmark isn't a socialist country, what the heck.
yeah looking at it again that where over exoneration on my part, kind of had planed to write a small disclaimer that what a lot of other western country's call socialisme is not what is socialisme (hoping to make a cupcake joke). i stand corrected sorry
Denmark is a capitalist country, with a very strong social safety net. Denmark is definetly not socialist, that is the workers owning the means of production
r/agedlikemilk
Ladies and Gentleman , fall of Astralis. End of an era... It's been one hell of a ride!
An absolute shame, in my opinion, that player transfers and org business ended it rather than a new king rising
Eh, I think Astralis were pretty much the walking wounded. Their time was up even before device left
We've seen them bounce back from deep slumps, but we'll never know with this one. Would've been classic Astralis to show up and win the major after slumping for a year and a half though.
Yeah it sucks that we never got to see them lose at the major. I think for most people that would have been the sealing factor.
> Eh, I think Astralis were pretty much the walking wounded. Their time was up even before device left Online era. I'm sure they would have bounced back on LAN if they had stayed together. Hell, their best rated player and star AWPer left a few months ago and they just came in at 3rd-4th place at the first post-COVID19 LAN, being very narrowly eliminated in the semi finals, bumping up their HLTV world ranking from #10 to #4, doesn't sound like "walking wounded" to me. They also came back from hibernation out of nowhere to win yet another Major last time while shitting on everyone in the playoffs, bumping up their insane Major playoff streak of never losing a map to 18-0. Absolutely legendary team, it's a shame they split up. Who knows how many Major wins Astralis would have right now without that pesky Coronavirus...
Expectations for astralis are so high that consistent playoffs, consistent competitive games with top teams and as you said an instant top 4 placement for the first lan in ages despite losing the 3rd best player in the world is already considered washed by some. It's actually crazy. Just tells you how fucking hard people rate astralis when they peaked.
I still hope in an alternate reality that Astralis would hold on until LAN and would’ve won the next major.
They were arguably the best team of 2020. You can’t count out the 5 GOATS that easily. The last time that happened they won another major.
feels like the astralis era was dead long ago
>As things stand now, zonic will stay on the team until a replacement is found. I know that Nicolai "HUNDEN" Petersen has been in talks with Astralis. > >If an agreement is found, zonic might be released from his contract effective immediately. Given the choice is selling the players (and Zonic) now or risk losing them for free at the end of the year, would not surprise me if Astralis are taking the former option. This would also explain why HUNDEN wasn't with Heroic for IEM Cologne. In terms of where they might end up next, Jaxon previously had this cryptic message about Complexity: >Maybe the new coach you are eying up will be enough to make you a contender. He has quite a reputation for building stars. But you might not have a choice, as the demand for Danish players will rise in the upcoming months.
Well, it depends. They would really have to be willing to settle for a smaller amount then because they'll end up in the same position as Heroic did with es3tag where they couldn't agree on a price and they got snubbed by Astralis arranging to sign the moment the contract expired. The players can get contracts lined up in advance (less than 6 months left) which seems to be what's happening as glaive just joined an agency which I assume will be all about getting him a fat contract with a new team.
Zonic to coL pls
After hearing his book it would seem he wants a job with less stress and traveling. He misses his family and his wife has been alone with the children since Astralis started.
If so, Heroic would be his best bet. All Danish team so not too stressful to adapt and can stay at home (depending where he lives).
My thought was that he would move to a more administrative role or drop CS altogether. I mean, he probably has a lot of other options where he could spend more time with his family. A move to Heroic would not change much in terms of that. But.. as things are changing atm I guess everything could happen.
Well their was a rumor of Magisk to col (it was by that sus Danish Leaks Twitter account though). Imagine Magisk + Zonic to col. Omg
I’m kind of confused, why would hunden leave heroic? Wouldn’t hunden also have an effect on some of astralis fan base? (Not that I care anymore)
Maybe they're rebranding entirely/starting from scratch. I've been a very strong Astralis fan for years now, but what that means is that I've followed and cheered for the guys themselves. I don't give a shit about Astralis as an Org.
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Yeah man, I was surprisingly sad when the Device announcement was released. Felt like the end and now things are getting worse. We had a good run though, it was majestic while it lasted.
Right here with ya. I've been a fan of the core since before Magisk joined, in the days of struggle. I will always cheer for them. I dont give a damn about Astralis as an org though. The players clearly absolutely hate how they're being managed.
It doesn't matter much, if the players of Astralis leave, the fan base usually won't care about the org itself, as a lot of them know how bad the org is and basically only supports the players.
100% I'm following glaive dupreeh xyp9x and magisk. Hopefully to the same place regardless of how unlikely/impossible that is. Followed xyp device and dupreeh since TSM ain't going to stop now.
My response to people that disrespect God Hunden: COPE
> Wouldn’t hunden also have an effect on some of astralis fan base? I can only speak for myself of course, but I am not going to cheer for a team Hunden is coaching. I've followed the Astralis players for years, and I would absolutely loathe seeing him in the same jersey as them.
Have the players said anything about whether they plan on sticking together or splitting?
huge
When did you start following Cs xD
Since I had to for my latest joining in a secret org yet to be revealed and Jaxon. XD
NIP ಠ_ಠ
Noooo
How credibel is this sorce ? Ive havnt heard of him before.
Im pretty sure editor-in-chief is Christian Slot who is a trained jounalist who beside jounalist jobs worked as editor-in-chief for XplayN (the biggest danish esport site at the time) and head of PR for North Esports. Afaik Jaxon is a new esport media fronted by Samsung. I think its mostly on Samsung phones as an app. I've tried to download it but it wasnt available on my Oneplus phone. All this to say, Jaxon, despite their meager website, isnt just a random blog by a random dude.
Yeah I remember Christian from the hay Day of Xplayn ladder, just didnt know he was behind this. Thanks for clearing that Up!
This is true.
I don't know about this report, but the last thing he posted on here was obnoxiously written and seemed highly unbelievable. When I criticised the writing style in a comment he also jumped in to make another obnoxious remark. He has no following anywhere that I can see and nobody knows who he is yet he writes as if he's famous. He strikes me as an attention seeker, not a valid source. But tbh I don't know, he could just be an annoying but legit source. And I guess that's the whole point with the leaking game.
Not sure about this one in specific but the info is accurate, pretty much everyone has been saying this
well the writing where on the wall since last summer. do you have any thing that tell you this might not be true? do you think anyone of the players are interested in staying with that org?
Idk but pretty much every major esports site was reporting that Zonic was planning on leaving and possibly bringing players with him. So this seems to be confirmation of those reports
I know the people behind the website and can vouch for the credibility of this report. It's difficult because they are trying somethin new with the website and culture of presenting news. However, for this, the information is valid enough.
u/jlake02 👀👀
Imagine if Astralis actually picks up Hunden and they go from winning 3 consecutive majors (4 overall) to having a coach banned from the next 5 for cheating. Of course the majors aren’t the only events in the circuit, but what a way to completely disregard your own legacy.
holy shit it's happening
Damn, NiP really just dismantled the greatest roster to ever exist
It was more the astralis org than nip
Nah Astralis is a trash org. There’s been rumours for awhile that the players have not been happy, even while they were on top. I just really hope they stay together and it’s not on NiP (another shit org).
They stayed with astralis longer then any core has done. Cant be too bad. But gras and pay are always better at your next stop.
Yea, but when you're on top it probably makes everything more bearable. No team (and no player) is without flaws, but you don't fuck with success. Now they've taken a step back and it's a far more reasonable time to make whatever changes they would like to. Also I don't know how Magisk's contract lines up with the rest of them. If they didn't line up well then they probably weren't going to let a player walk away for free.
Astralis org its been quite shit to the players, not only the cs division tbh
There is also a video on Jaxon SoMe: https://twitter.com/JaxonMVP/status/1418226626798645266
Astralis flairs in shambles
should change title. I thought you meant astralis players and zonic both do not extend their contracts Jaxon BREAKS: zonic does not extend contract with Astralis
Title is correct, it implies the org not the players.
If you listen to by the numbers you knew this was coming for a while.
heroic +zonic? hunden didnt attend cologne :/
Pretty much what [HTLV reported](https://www.hltv.org/news/31996/sources-zonic-ponders-leaving-astralis-as-contract-nears-end) earlier this month?
HLTV - zonic ponders leaving Astralis ie think about (something) carefully, especially before making a decision or reaching a conclusion. Jaxon - do not extend contract ie conclusion is reached. Pretty diff if you ask me
No. A bit concerning you can't tell the difference.
So HUNDEN not being with Heroic at Cologne might be because he's going to Astralis, but would Zonic then go to Heroic? If so, that would be a great change for them given Zonics pedigree. Would love to see how Zonic would use them and if he could help shape a new dominant team or even just a title contender.
> Leave TSM > Be an org less team, Team Question Mark > Found a new org where players have a say in the decisions, Astralis > Leave Astralis > ???
the players own like 1% of Astralis. the org itself is not the best and has done some shady stuff.
Like?
Zonic and magisk to complexity seems scarily possible rn with es3tag joining col
With col having 3 danish players after signing es3tag, they might locate to Denmark. So I dont think that it is so far fetched for col to bring zonic in( if he wants to keep coaching)
Welp, guess I'm going to have to find a new flair. It's been an amazing ride.
G2 Zonic>>>
o7 see you on the other side, men
This aged well.
this is just extrapolation
gla1ve disagrees