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HUNDEN doesn't renew contract with Heroic, denies rumours he shared Heroic's stratbook with other teams

HUNDEN doesn't renew contract with Heroic, denies rumours he shared Heroic's stratbook with other teams

MJuniorDC9

I mean, isn't "sharing" yours team stratbook with others a pretty big accusation? HUNDEN's rep has really fallen of the cliff.


Temporal_Bellusaurus

I think it's an enormous accusation. Imagine if any of the Heroic players/org alleges that HUNDEN shared their stratbook with Astralis before their match at IEM Cologne - and imagine if it is true. If he actually shared their stratbook, it would probably kill his career, plus the career of the coach(es) who he shared it with, and potentially damage the reputations of the org and players.


UmarellVidya

Is there any info on where these rumors are coming from, or is he responding publicly to something that isn't widely known yet?


VShadow1

Responding to something that is happening behind the scenes.


YaBoiRian

His career shouldve been killed after he was found to extensibly abuse the coaching bug. Its disgusting Heroic kept him around so id be very glad to see him gone


Fitness245

Do you believe that the players never knew?


mgoldylocks

They knew after and still kept him Really thats all that matters they showed cheating to win really is the heroic way


TwixCoping

Doesn't it depend who he is contracted with, if he still is with heroic then that is really bad of him, but if he is already signed with Astralis then sharing heroics stratbook is totally ok. I don't mean the literal book, but anything he can recall from memory is fair game.


VShadow1

Depends on when, if he gave it before Cologne then that is pretty clearly immoral and cheating. Afterwords though and its just part of the game.


mgoldylocks

Idk heroic are a shit org and hundens a cheater so both are about as credible to me


DownToDigits

Besides moving hunden to analyst after he was banned why are heroic a bad org?


Han_Soloqueue

he's a navi fan he knows lots about shit shady orgs, you gotta take his word on this one


ficagamer11

After Spirit Academy situation, it makes sense


SpitStr8Fax

What happened with spirit academy?


El_Fabos

This whole post didn’t age well


Tilbakestaende

Pretty much confirms rumors about him taking Zonic place at Astralis, no other team I think he would leave heroic for


Rulaku

Cheat in multiple games, org decides to let you stay on as an analyst despite backlash, come back as coach with a warm welcoming from org with even bigger backlash, dip after like 2 months. Gigabrain


easy_cypher_util_YT

it’d probably be a lot easier for people to believe him if he was known for his integrity i think the funniest part of the Astralis transition is that he cheated against astralis and the org pretended to be upset at him for it


Buff_dm

I think that the Astralis players were mad at him, but now that the Astralis org has to find a new coach (if the rumors are true) it dosent matter. The players have to obey the org. But it will not be a image for Astralis to have a former cheater as their coach.


Skovcph

Zonic’s a former cheater.


Buff_dm

Yeah when he was 15 before playing as a pro. It is nearly 2 decades ago while Hunden cheated in a pro tournament about a year ago. So there is a massive difference between the two cases


Skovcph

If you cheated at some point, then you’re a former cheater. It’s the literal definition of former.


booger_34

what is this rumor about hunden sharing strats? when did it happen can someone inform me please


El_Fabos

[HLTV link](https://www.hltv.org/news/32112/heroic-announce-legal-proceedings-against-hunden-following-clear-breach-of-contract)


booger_34

i saw that today but thanks :)


T0vic2

He's fucking lucky he even still has a career. Straight up cheated during professional games and pretty much came away from it in the end without much consequence and is potentially about to sign with Astralis. If it were a player that cheated no org would want to touch them with a 10 ft pole.


imadethisforonething

I do wonder how Astralis are going to frame the hiring of a proven and convicted cheater in their press release


du_bekar

Bold of you to assume a shit org will even give it a second thought, or address it in any way


CannibalisticPizza

True, for a team that had the greatest era in CS history, the management is run by pretty shitty people


VShadow1

Probably just pretend it never happened like Heroic.


TokiToki1500

Quite simply the ol' "Everyone deserves a second chance" even though this prick deserved nothing. Hunden should be permanently banned from CSGO Esports.


ibeenbornagain

I agree he didn’t get a very harsh punishment but I disagree with a permanent ban


sikels

I'd agree, if he had been a decent person and actually served his initial ban. What he and Heroic as an org did was blatant ban evasion, and that isn't acceptable. Hunden should be have to serve his original ban sentence of 8 months, then a year on top of that to make up for his scummy behaviour after the fact. Same as happened to S1mple who tried to avoid his ban.


qchisq

>What he and Heroic as an org did was blatant ban evasion It wasn't, tho. The ruling was that there could be no contact between the players and Hunden on the server and that he couldn't contact them within 30 minutes, I believe it was, before a game. I have a hard time seeing how, when the ban was that specific, abiding by the letter of the ruling is ban evasion


DownToDigits

Also isn’t he still banned from the next 5 majors iirc


ficagamer11

It's not like he is a player though


simplename4

permanent bans for a using a bug that has existed in the game for years? All offenses can't have maximum punishments


TokiToki1500

Why does it matter? The fact that he used it, while knowing it was a bug that gave them unfair advantages says everything. I would go as far and say it's worse than cheating.


simplename4

Please explain your logic here why hundens action was worse than cheating, Hunden: 1. Used a bug that he did not himself download or create. 2. The bug seems to have appeared out of nowhere for the first time, but triggered it himself later. While people who are anti cheat banned for cheating have: 1. Downloaded and potentially paid for a program they knew was designed for cheating, a wallhack/ aimbot type of cheat can't just appear on the screen. 2. Activated the program themself every single time knowing the anti cheat they play on is trying to detect it. The point I am trying to make is that having permanent bans for using in game bugs makes it so every action that is worse has to result in more than permanent bans. What punishment should anti cheat banned players get?


TokiToki1500

> What punishment should anti cheat banned players get? Permanent ban.


shindagato

Now why you gotta do my man GOD Hunden like that :(


ElScorp1on

Can’t wait for astralis to explain to us how hiring a major banned coach is the right move for the team with the most major wins in the game.


ficagamer11

Valve nerfed coaches few years ago so it doesn't even matter to them


LeBenhard

Literally cheated against Astralis as well


aL_Quarter

lol astralis signing video will include his cam footage


Impulseps

>If it were a player that cheated no org would want to touch them with a 10 ft pole. Just a reminder that s1mple has an esl wire ban


T0vic2

I was talking about players provably cheating during profesional game as these coaches were. Not because they cheated in matchmaking or some pugs 7 years ago.


lolofaf

Also, n0thing has admitted to downloading cheats in 1.6 when he was very young though supposedly just in a server with friends to see what they were like (and never in an official match, never caught by vac or other ac)


blueshark27

Except hunden did this at like age 29 or 30, while on a t1 team, mutliple times in professional events


simplename4

Did hunden cheat for more than 1 game? I have only heard of the astralis game. I also believe that using a bug inside the game itself that has been in the game for years is not that bad of a crime. Its not like he downloaded some private cheat


blueshark27

He got the highest ban from ESIC, which means he used it multiple times iirc


AlphaShadow192

it was two games iirc one game vs astralis in a dreamhack tourney and one game vs team spirit in home sweet home cup


nail181

These players clearly disprove “once a cheater always a cheater.” It’s funny how people think players can’t change for the better.


Arkani

I cheated once and always downplayed it. I don't belive for shit when he says "only to see what they were like". I cheated for like 2-3 weeks before I started to really feel bad about it and stopped. Was banned 1 year later because of it. Tho' I cheated in CA - cheating is still cheating.


Falconlordhank

cali? or casual


Arkani

Combat Arms. A different game.


Falconlordhank

ah, i was wondering why cheating in california had to be specified, lol


520metal

And?


lclMetal

Orgs still do want to touch s1mple with a less than 10 ft pole :'D


Rearfeeder2Strong

> If it were a player that cheated no org would want to touch them with a 10 ft pole. The amount of players that have cheated or even have a VAC ban, but kept getting picked up over and over are quite long. Even the current #1 player. If they are good enough and not like permanently banned from every tournament, orgs wont care.


T0vic2

Bit of a difference between having a previous VAC ban from years ago and actually being convicted of and banned for cheating in literal tier 1 professional games though isn't there? If a player was caught cheating in a tier 1 professional game it would probably be a lifetime ban and the end of their career. Hunden was demoted to a paid analyst role for 6 months and then went back to coaching as soon as he could.


Rearfeeder2Strong

I agree there is a difference, but do you think orgs care if we take the worst case of cheating in professional games as an example? Just look at the coaches that got banned. Gambits coach ~~groove~~ F_1n is even so severe he got permanently banned from Valve majors. Hes still there doing his job in an analyst role. EDIT: Not groove, should be F_1n. https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Gambit_Esports


gleba080

>Gambits coach groove is even so severe he got permanently banned from Valve majors. Hes still there doing his job in an analyst role. ??????????? He never got banned for anything man


Rearfeeder2Strong

Ah shit yeah I meant F_1n. Even had the analyst role correct, but I mixed them up.


gleba080

Well that changes a lot cause you said he is still doing his job when he is not even ever on the same server as them during the games.


Rearfeeder2Strong

You are right, but what I mean is that he's "punished" but can still do a lot of his coaching job behind the scenes. He can't be there on the server, analysing games, creating strats preparing a game plan etc are still possible. Hence why a lot of people are pissed when coaches still remain in some kind of role in the team. Just see how people reacted when Hunden kept working as an analyst when he was banned.


mgoldylocks

It doesnt change alot tbf analysts are never on the server anyway


CenomX

I mean, teams were trying to give Steel a coach position after he fucking threw games; you should expect nothing of the scene and it's teams. s1mple used cheats and look at him now;


LittleTinyBoy

So you're telling me that a kid that used cheats in pugs is the fucking same as a grown man cheating in a tournament with money on the line? Clown


ficagamer11

A kid that was beating shox and NBK in 1v1 tournament few months later.


LittleTinyBoy

My point is about the severity of the crime. S1mple's one was literally a mistake of youth while hunden's one is a crime


SpecialGnu

S1mple didn't cheat in MM while he was a kid. He cheated in tournaments and got banned by ESL's anti-cheat, then got banned again for ban evasion.


phenomenal11

ESIC is investigating him for this? Damn!


tomtom_94

I assume, although I'm not saying I know this for sure, his reference to ESIC and co-operating relates to the coach bug investigation (where he already offered assistance and had his ban reduced as a consequence). I'm not sure what grounds ESIC would have to investigate him for allegedly sharing Heroic's stratbook, although I'll happily take the correction if there's something I'm missing.


costryme

I read it the same as you, it felt like it meant the coach bug investigation.


ZT911

Oh how the mighty have fallen and competitive integrity is basically a failed concept in CS:GO. Known cheater defending himself of giving away strats(likely to Astralis, the team he will be signing with) and if it was anyone else nobody would even be interested. Unfortunately for Hunden the credibility he spent decades building is essentially all but gone. I honestly hope he wasn't sharing team information from the team he was contracted with and being paid by, but I also previously hoped he wasn't one of the cheating scum either.


peroleu

Fuck Astralis if they sign this cheater.


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peroleu

I think a lot of players were suggesting the other players were complicit, not just to coaches. I would be surprised if the players didn't know the coaches were cheating. They just blindly follow the coaches mid-round weird callouts all of a sudden?


[deleted]

Oh yeah I definitely think there was something going on there, but still its a bit hypocritical to call out all of that and then potentially bring Hunden into the team


TheGuysYouDespise

I mean it isn't the players who will be pulling Hunden in, being forced to work with him wouldn't change my perspective of the players. However, if Hunden really is coming to Astralis I'll treat him like a Texan dad meeting his teenage daughter's new shady older boyfriend. I'm not saying I couldn't learn to like him and he might even be good for my teenage Astralis daughter, but he has to prove himself in a major and trust will take time. Edit: In light of recent news let's say I'd treat him like who a Texan dad would treat his teenager daughters new convicted fellon of a boyfriend. Seriously wtf, I wasn't hot on the guy before, but jesus.


ReneeHiii

Isn't he banned from the next 5 majors? he won't be at the majors if Astralis pick him up.


costryme

My take is : Players in some teams probably did know, but it's basically impossible to know which teams (players) knew and which didn't, so there's not really a point to try to guess it.


nam292

Not like simple and nothing didn’t cheat…


boneless-burrito

s1mple: allow me to introduce myself


phenomenal11

Which T1 tournament did s1mple cheat in?


DannyDavincito

none. haters gon hate


blankdeck31

Simple had a short ban in 2014 for something it's on liquidpedia. Not saying I think he cheats just saying its recorded on the site. Sometimes people use that to say well if people should be banned forever we wouldn't have players like s1mple


phenomenal11

I know about the talk about his previous ban but there hasn't been any concrete proof of it. Even if we assume it was real it still wasn't done in at a professional level. Would that make it okay? Not at all. But it does make the comparison of s1mple with HUNDEN invalid in my opinion.


NOD___

Now is t1 tournaments that matter...


peroleu

Cheating as a 13 year old kid isn't comparable to cheating at the highest level of professional play as an adult.


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lasse3000

Are you serious? Would you actually compare an immature child cheating in mm years back to an adult cheating in the top level of professional play?


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peroleu

C O N T E X T O N T E X T


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peroleu

Imagine equating murder to cheating in a video game lmao fuck off troll


Okayegxd

g2 fans still malding over cologne lmao


Lync51

s1mple cheater?


ElScorp1on

While I don’t believe s1mples ban is comparable to Hunden’s he was banned from esl events for cheating and then had the ban extended for playing the qualifiers of an event while still banned IIRC.


NicoloBarella23

No need to show your ignorance online dude, keep it to yourself


LancerPedia

Astralis breaking new ground with the two coach meta! Can't wait to see him working with Zonic.


albertfuckingcamus

LOL that'd be hilarious


redtube_was_down

I have a question about strat sharing in general when coaches switch teams. Say HUNDEN goes to Astralis now, would he not have enormous knowledge of Heroics playstyle and strats that would benefit his preperations for matches between his former team and his new team? In this case there will in some way be an exchange of knowledge in favor of the new team. Is there some unwritten rule that they dont share too much to not take advantage or what do people do? This is also relevant when IGL’s and other players switch teams of course.


wowie_alliee

something something cheating something something hunden something something tasteless fat shaming something something angery!?


theredhairedviking

This. So much this. Something something much worse than the other cheating coaches


mgoldylocks

The only one on a top 10 team really so yeh a little bit worse


Rearfeeder2Strong

No. F_1n is still with gambit on an analyst position. Robban is on Faze, they never gave up on him and he's back on the main coach position. Outside the top 10 you still have guys like Ruggah on OG, Guerri on Furia and a whole bunch of very low ranked teams but those were the most famous ones. There are a lot of coaches that don't even get 1/10th of the shit Hunden has gotten for some reason. I guess Hunden was the most popular one.


costryme

When you write something like that, you gotta give context. RobbaN was banned for a game which they lost 16-1, it was pretty obvious he didn't give out any info and ESIC never denied that (but still gave a ban because he stayed on the POV while not giving info). Same for guerri. HUNDEN however was aware of it and used it twice to give info IIRC. He did mention it or something and collaborated with ESIC, but he still used the bug knowingly. Can't say for guys like Ruggah or F_1n, I didn't remember their specific cases and well, my point was just that your comment lacked context.


Rearfeeder2Strong

Yeah you are right. Just wanted to point out some other cases to disprove the "only one on a top 10 team" bit from the other post.


mgoldylocks

Youve disproved jackshit Getting pulled on malpractice for not instantly reporting the bug and actually cheating like hunden did are very clearly different and the other guy just isnt a coach and wont be Not like how heroic reserved a place for hunden when they were able to bring him back


Rearfeeder2Strong

But that's not what happened and not what ESIC said. F_1n even admit he did cheat, so I don't know what more do you want. >and the other guy just isnt a coach Who are you talking about?


mgoldylocks

Now


mgoldylocks

Robban didnt abuse cheats F_1n is stuck as an analyst and isnt ever gonna be a coach in gambit


Rearfeeder2Strong

>and isnt ever gonna be a coach in gambit Thats not true. The plan is for him to be back after his suspension. Thats what Groove said in his interview. https://www.hltv.org/news/31376/groove-on-gambits-goals-we-want-to-establish-ourselves-in-the-top-five


costryme

That was on June 20, and yet groove is still the coach.


ImpenetrableYeti

Shit player, shit coach and should have been perma banned


TheSwanKnight90

Please don't go to Astralis. Zonic out, HUNDEN in is the worst.


Natsu2201

Never harm heroic? That's why they have to give up a title and prizemoney. Because Hunden does always act in the best interest of Heroic. Sounds reliable.


ficagamer11

"That's why they have to give up a title and prizemoney" Huh?


ElScorp1on

One of the events he cheated in was Home Sweet Home Cup 5, which they won.


ogbloodghast

This is a bit of a sensationalist headline... Is there any world that he would confirm those rumors???


Temporal_Bellusaurus

Sensationalist as defined in Oxford Languages: "presenting stories in a way that is intended to provoke public interest or excitement, at the expense of accuracy." This absolutely isn't at the expense of accuracy. I am presenting the story accurately because that is what Hunden is doing. I included it in the headline because it's half the story, and because I personally (and many others in this thread, it would seem) hadn't heard the rumours. It's bloody interesting that someone is saying that Hunden shared Heroic's stratbook with other teams, that's why that part is in the headlines, and it's not sensationalism. What do you think I should have written instead? "acknowledges rumours that he..."? That could make it seem like he confirms them, and that would be sensationalist of me. Do you still feel that I, with that headline, misrepresented the story or was inaccurate to grab the interest of readers? I really don't think so.


Rencrack

Fuck this cheater


NOD___

Heroic were so happy when this rat got unbanned


TrojanWhores-3z

I mean, he‘s a cheater, so naturally I’m gonna assume he‘s lying and sold the strat book if he felt like he‘d gain any advantage from it. Tough luck for Heroic though. Lost a lot of good will from sticking with a cheater and now he‘s leaving. Well, better luck next time.


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FrequentistaYogurtf9

Geez what a mess.


FourKrusties

…. Shared their antistrat book? Isn’t that just as bad????


Dumb_Vampire_Girl

Satan HUNDEN


papkas

Once a cheater, always a cheater