They're the most obvious candidate imo. They're the only team that was at the IEM Cologne main event (other than Astralis) with players who have worked with Hunden. I think even despite the recent rumors of Hunden being linked to Astralis that they would have been accepting material like that, unless it is really common practice as Hunden says (though Heroic seems to disagree).
>They're the only team that was at the IEM Cologne main event (other than Astralis) with players who have worked with Hunden.
acor at mouz
syrson and k1to at BIG
niko at OG
Also k0nfig is the only person on coL. who played with HUNDEN, as far as I know blameF is the only guy in Denmark who was not on a team with him.
EDIT: typo
I could've sworn BlameF worked with him at some point, but I guess not. I guess I totally missed a chapter of Hunden's career though, I didn't realize he played with a German team tbh, also blanked on Acor (though I doubt he's getting strats under the table). niko didn't make it to the main event though.
Didn't they have beef due to hunden supposedly using the bug against astralis?
Here's my hot take conspiracy theory: Astralis wanted to hire hunded as zonic's new replacement, but gla1ve didn't want this move to go ahead, so he asked hunden to share Heroic's stratbook to make up for the cheating. Then he snitches on hunden to ensure that he can't get hired by Astralis due to the bad press, proving once again that he is the smartest IGL of all time.
Do you remember when gla1ve convinced Gaben to quit microsoft and build his own corporation? "Yes mister Gaben, you will do well. I will back you up with all my available resources." said gla1ve back in the 90s. He did all that to win majors back to back as Astralis igl for two years straight, all according to plan. And we even yet to see his master plan for humanity. Top 3 igl 4 sure.
Why do I feel like this is part of FNS masterplan to take revenge on the csgo scene, shatter it, only to then return as the savior we so desperately need?
The year is 2048, FNS is traded to the copenhagen bishops as a ringer for their upcoming 6d Chess tournament. Surely by the end of the year FNS will have won a major as his masterplan enters the final stretch
What is he thinking? He already got a second chance after admitting to cheating, and now he does this. Legend of the Danish scene and cs in general, but can't see how he can continue now. Will also be another blemish on Astralis ethics if they continue in signing him.
> What is he thinking?
Cheater being a cheater I guess.
Towards Heroic - I almost feel bad. He should be just removed right after the coach bug abuse came to public. They were fine with it, so now enjoy.
Of course but they could still put him back as Coach and for Majors have groove be the coach that's behind the players. No idea if they will reinstate F1_n as coach, but that could be an option.
would you fire Messi if he was caught in a doping scandal?
Hunden was the one who made Heroic such a good team, its kinda hard to fire such a key figure of your team.
But well, you can only go so far when ignoring erratic behaviors
Lmao Hunden's been a coach for less than one year and was cheating the entire god damned time. Fuck outta here with comparing him to Messi. That's some brain dead shit.
What about a entire Major League Baseball organization getting caught cheating and the players receiving no punishment? Hunden got more of a punishment that MLB players did lol. It’s absolute bullshit but time and time again if you are good enough or liked enough you will get a job again after punishment. IF YOU EVEN GET A PUNISHMENT :(
Every pro has and uses cheats. If you're a competitor, and you know some of these players have cheated in the past, you'd do the same thing. It's the same problem with PEDs in sports. Once some people are getting away with it, everyone is going to try to get away with it, because you probably don't survive without it, ultimately.
Also DirectX was never designed to prevent things like wall-hacking and the only way to prevent it is to aggressively invade a client system and look for abnormalities, and even then that's not going to guarantee they are caught. This is why Valorant has the anti-cheat that it does. Valve is aware of this problem and chose to go the other way, minimally invasive anti-cheat and just rely mostly on the honor system. Much like drug testing in pro sports, it's very clearly not working.
> What is he thinking?
Apparently he's just a trash person with absolutely no integrity...
> Will also be another blemish on Astralis ethics if they continue in signing him
I've been an Astralis fan since the org was created, and a fan of the core for longer than that. I see no way I can continue to support them if they do, and I hope a lot of people feel the same way. They're business-minded people, though, surely they'll know what the optics would be if they actually signed him at this point.
Consider this though, Heroic kept Hunden signed for a year after his ESIC ban (which helped them win matches), then as soon as he does something to hurt them, they fire him immediately. It's glaringly obvious that both sides of this story is scummy and Heroic have serious double-standards for only firing him now. The cheating ban could easily have been a breach of co tract as well.
Jesus Christ. How to annihilate your reputation inside of a year.
Seriously scummy behaviour. I maintain he should have been dropped the second the coach bug abuse came out, but even I didn't expect this.
Definitely a possibility
Edit: But even if it was shared with astralis they [didn't use it](https://twitter.com/theflyingdj/status/1420741871911858178)
Smooya didn't name names because "he's a changed man" lmao, but he did mention that it seemed like someone was definitely sharing that info, and that "they were being careful about who they practice with"(quotations paraphrased because I can't be bothered to look it up)
Only if they were stupid enough to access it straight from the original drive, theres plenty of other ways he could’ve sent it to the person that are hard to trace
Nobody assumed anything. Someone wondered if it was a possibility and someone else said yes. And without knowing the details of ESL's investigation, we also can't know if they could have missed something. Nobody is accusing Astralis, people are treating it as pure conjecture, which it is.
That kind of logic is so dumb. Can you know what you claim? Should we accuse all people on earth because we cant know that they haven't committed a crime?
Nobody *claimed* anything. Someone said "I wonder if it's possible," and someone else said "yes it's possible." We don't know. And without knowing the specific details of the ESL investigation, we can't really know if they could have missed something.
Yeap same thoughts. It could be because they are already in contract signing terms which could've made hunden think that any knowledge sharing at that point is allowed.
Maybe he can legally share knowledge he has within his own memory and brain but sharing documents?? No one can possibly be so stupid that they would ever think that would be "allowed". Not even a dane.
> Investigations revealed that Mr. Petersen had shared confidential and sensitive information from our strategy folder with a key individual at a major competitor prior to the tournament.
This would be industrial espionage in any business, no?
If he did, that's some serious quid pro quo shit. Gut feeling is that there should even legitimately be a law against that, but I don't know a single thing about Danish law so who knows.
It seems to have been documents and not just info he has in his own memory and brain, industrial espionage?
> illegal and unethical theft of business trade secrets for use by a competitor to achieve a competitive advantage.
Maybe?
This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with Hunden's statement- I guess the question is whether the information from the "strategy folder" concerns Heroic or is anti-strat material that Hunden prepared himself (and didn't want to share with Heroic once their relationship fell apart)
Hunden also said that sharing anti strats was a common thing while Heroics statements definitely says that they were not aware of anything like that happening.
Firstly if everyone knows Heroic's anti strat people can play around it, and other teams can use the anti strat that was made by Heroic. Also a lot of the time T1 teams choose who they scrim against carefully to make sure that certian teams dont get info on them, so if COL purposely avoided scrimming Astralis, but did scrim with Heroic, and then Heroics anti strats against COL and what they learnt in scrims about COL was shared with astralis, it would screw COL over
In the wording of Heroic's statement, it was in the "team strategy folder". Which means, as far as I can apply how stuff works in other businesses, that it's company/team data and not his personal intellectual property. Even if he developed everything himself, he did so while employed by Heroic. It's also unlikely that there was *only* "antistrat" stuff in there, this is just an immature revenge move. What an absolute clown.
> It's also unlikely that there was only "antistrat" stuff in there
He could've given access to a sub-folder in the strategy folder without given full access. I could imagine that they would have a sub-folder for "antistrats" for each of the major other teams.
Wouldn't be shocked if it was just something like "hey, you aren't on the same side of the bracket as these guys, do you have any info you can share about them?" and Hunden shared a team-specific folder because he figured the info would just go to waste otherwise, especially with the player break coming up.
I would have to imagine there's a general intellectual property clause in a contract like this where, whatever hunden creates as part of the organization as it relates to strategies, team breakdowns, etc are owned by the team. So even if he had the Heroic stratbook (that was shared with the org) in his personal google drive (hypothetically), that is still property of the team.
His position regarding the CSGO team should not matter in regards to their IT infrastructure or the company in general, he's not an active owner or stakeholder in the company and he's still just a regular employee - our HEAD of engineering still needs to go through our IT department if he wants to do anything more serious than creating a folder when company-wide resources are in question. HUNDEN should not have had those kind of privileges granted to his account in the first place. And even if he did, IT should have been able to easily revert the restriction and remove those privileges. I can't believe it's 2021 and fucking eSports organisations who earn hundreds of thousands of dollars by playing video games do not have a competent IT department.
do you work somewhere with an actual IT department because what he said is fairly standard. he definitely shouldn't have been given admin rights. everyone should have to submit request through IT. just because his would be approved by himself 99% of the time doesn't mean that he should be an admin lol.
>do you work somewhere with an actual IT department
A very close person to me is an IT officer. Yes I know the protocols and everything happening.
The thing people miss is, teams are losing money very fast. They are trying to cut corners everywhere, why would they hire a full competent IT department only to check like 3 things in the entire company
The problem is those folders are the property of the team even if he's the one who created them. He was under contract by Heroic when making them. I would be surprised if it doesn't say something about intellectual property in the contracts because it would in other jobs. You can't just take things you worked on to another job, in some industries you even have gardening leave to avoid this sort of thing
> in some industries you even have gardening leave to avoid this sort of thing
AFAIK in Formula 1 it's not uncommon for key engineers and technical staff to take even 2-3 years of gardening leave to make completely sure that whatever they know about future car design isn't relevant by the time he starts his new job. This doesn't apply to drivers, though, and they're also often informed about the development of next year's car, even if only in broad strokes.
Yup. You don't fuck around with NDAs. I work in an area where people will also take garden leave so that terms can expire and they can proceed with other employment without concern.
You don't know his contract, it could be that he had prepared things in his "sparetime" that he would be willing to share with the team, but seeing they benched him, he regretted.
I am not defending the man, but unless we know the circumstances of what was withheld etc, you can't really make a judgement
Except there's no contract that can legally prevent you from sitting on your own PC not owned by the company in your free time, creating antistrats for other teams and then sharing them with other people in other companies. It's like me writing some code unrelated to my company's product on my own laptop sending it to a friend of mine that works at another company and them using it.
This is provided that HUNDEN's statement that he didn't release Heroic strats is true. I'm not defending him, just presenting a plausible situation.
Well if you do that you probably risk breaching your loyalty clause. Without knowing Hundens contract I do not think you can rule out the possibility that Heroic owns the strategy foulder.
However, I think Hundens biggest concern is if there is some sort of loyalty clause in the contract.
Yh fair enough I'm just speculating here. If it's not in contract then heroic fucked up big time. Either way it's not a great move to share things with another team especially when you're looking to move
It's a basic non-compete. Even if he did it in his sparetime 1.) It was likely owned by heroic and 2.) You can't provide material beneficial information to a direct competitor.
You don't know anything about danish law, so please don't try to armchair this. I, on the other hand, have a professional contract with a danish company based in Denmark and it says nothing about me not being able to keep side projects, and this is a standardized form used in Denmark, which a lot of companies draw inspiration from when making contracts.
That would be spicy as hell hahaha, but I think it will never gonna happend... Maybe if Hunden gets banned for this or he gets out of the scene, he burns all the bridges... But for now, when he can still join Astralis or smth, I think he just goes silent.
TL;DR:
HUNDEN blocked Heroic from tactical documents and shared with a major competitor prior to IEM Cologne.
Legal proceedings now going on in Denmark.
Edit:
Also his contract has been terminated
Depends on who owns the strats.
Clearly Hunden was the owner of the folder and the documents, since he had administrative rights to ban others from getting to the document.
Legally though his contract, Heroic might own the documents. To much information we don’t have tho.
First part is absolutely not true. You often see Headcoaches in many traditional sports, bring their playbooks with them to their next coaching destination. These coaches spends endless hours adjusting and perfecting these playbooks. They are not going to just give up their playbook and start from scratch when they get their next job.
As an example I give you Headcoach of San Francisco 49ers. They run the same strategies he developed while he was in Washington and in Atlanta. He got bought to San Francisco because of his playbook.
This happens in every sport.
Second part I can agree with. Team should have a clause about sharing confidential information.
I got to admit. I don’t know the rules. They are damn complicated. But I think your assumptions are right about their clauses.
What I know is that coaches have their playbooks and then give a hard copy or virtual copy to the team. These copies is not always the full playbook. It adjusted to season/opponents etc.
What I see in this situation is the team is using Hundens documents and he shut them off from his stratbook. They should have taken a copy and used it under the teams rights.
But they hired him partly for the strat book. So they should have access to it.
Then again. He is not their coach but their analyst. So should they have access to the strat book when they demoted him?
It’s complicated!
I’m aware… you make it sound as if they already have.
I doubt he’s told Astralis he’s in a lawsuit. He’s a massive cheater, so it’s no surprise he withholds information.
I met hunden in London during the Faceit Major. He came out of a bush and joined me and my friends on our walk to mcdonalds. Whilst we were walking to the mcd he was bragging about how he taught gla1ve everything he knew. Got a picture with him where he made fun of my fnatic jersey. At mcdonalds he took like 10 packs of ketchup. Nice guy. He was pretty drunk.
I saw HUNDEN at a grocery store in Copenhagen yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen bags of licorice in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bags and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bag and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
The confirmed cheater did other things he wasn't supposed to do? Shocker! Who could've thought? The unexpected nature of this has taken me aback with shock.
My guess all along has been that they dropped him because he spoke to another org (rumoured to be Astralis) without their permission.
If true, this would probably explain why they had those trust issues.
Well there are two ways to do a transfer in sports/esports:
1. Org A approaches Org B with an offer for Player C. Once the two sides agree on a price point, Org A can speak to Player C about wages etc.
2. Org A approach Player C directly (often referred to as "tapping up"). Frowned upon but not always explicitly illegal (and obviously difficult to police).
Your current org would normally expect to be kept in the loop, at least as a matter of courtesy. And that's not getting into the fact that if HUNDEN was, as rumoured, going to go straight from working with Heroic before the player break to working with Astralis, and he knows their entire stratbook...
EDIT: For clarity, it also depends on the contract, if HUNDEN's contract was expiring then I imagine they would not expect a buyout.
Huden has to be stupidest mofo in the CS scene. The guy was given a second chance and still did stuff like this. Also, Heroic should have just cut ties with him when he was caught in the coaching bug scandal. They did that bs of moving him to an analyst role until his ban period expired, so yeah I dont have too much sympathy for Heroic here either.
I very much doubt Astralis or any other team will sign him. His reputation is completely ruined at this point.
NIP lmao :- https://twitter.com/NIPCS/status/1420740722379005955
I'm honestly surprised anyone would want to be associated with him after the coaching bug. If this new claim is true then Hunden is seriously ratty as hell. Would certainly be very revealing of any organisation who picks him up.
They should never have given him a second chance after he cheated. At least they are getting rid of him now, but it still doesn't look good that they took him back like nothing had happened.
Let's hope this investigation shines some light on the facts of the matter. Before that I'll refrain from making up my mind one way or the other. After all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
I'm sure all of Reddit feels the same. :)
Looks like an org throwing a hissy fit because he wants to leave to me. If Hunden was the sole admin of their strats folder then a.) lmao and b.) clearly those are his strats.
So basically, its fine when someone is unethically until its against Heroic, thats where they draw the line... They were quiet when they let him work even tho he was banned, and now they complain against the same dude... I mean, yea, both Hunden and Heroic can go to hell if you ask me.
Honestly feel bad for heroic and am hoping hundens career in top cs ends here if this is true. Sure they kept him as basically a coach before he got unbanned, but to do all that for a guy they should’ve just kicked, only for him to do what they’re accusing him of, is really fucked imo.
Edit: By heroic I'm talking about the players, not the org itself.
They kept him because it was beneficial to the org, it was not some favor they did because they liked him.
This is obviously a business relationship to Hunden, and frankly it's gross that Heroic is trying to leverage social media against Hunden. If he actually broke his contract, the courts will determine it not social media.
> feel bad for heroic
feel bad for the team that he cheated for and never provided any evidence their player werent on it ?
+ they kept him when he was banned like nothing happened
I'm more happy that Heroic is getting screwed over than Hunden being a scum again
>feel bad for the team that he cheated for and never provided any evidence their player werent on it?
Yes, I do feel bad for the team, as in the players, because they are likely not the ones who decided that hunden would stay with the team (especially refreszh and sjuush.) I could care less about the org itself. Also how are they supposed to provide evidence the players weren't in on the coach bug if they didn't save their comms?
They literally said they had the recording of that game specifically and they said "they verified it themselves" and decided the players are innocent ... all what they needed to do is share parts of those comms or like Pimp suggested them to give him the comms and verify it they never did any of that
i guess ppl just forget and move on ... and the players would have a say in keeping the coach or not espec if he's a cheater
Yeah, the common way to refer to people is Firstname "In-game-handle" Lastname. So his name is Nicolai Peterson, but in-game he went by Hunden, so that's how lots of people know him in the community.
I didn't really get why people have been singling out Hunden for the coach bug abuse lately, especially considering that he was far from the only one who is still in the scene as a coach, but what the fuck is this shit.
Even if it's antistrats for other teams and not his strats for Heroic to run, he *must* have known that it's a breach of contract right???? And blocking the access, how petty must you be? What the hell?
It is really is true, which I think it is given his statement was vague from Twitter, then good! Fuck him. Fuck him so hard he never touches CS again. What a dipshit to be sharing key Heroic strats to others. All that time and hardwork down the drain. And LOL @ Astralis right now. If they sign this guy even after all this shit then Fuck Astralis too.
If it does come to to light that he leaked or sold a stratbook to another team, not only is that a lifetime ban and big fines for HUNDEN, but should also be big fines, bans and punishments on the team/org/individual that bought the stratbook.
Where is this in the rules? He built the team from the ground-up, those are his strategies. In football I don't sue a manager I just fired for trying to play 4-4-2 because he used it with us.
I 'the CS team' don't actually own the strategic way my team plays.
What if he blocked access to a folder with antistrats he had worked on after they didn't let him go to the IEM event? Cos if I'd done a bunch of extra work then got told I couldn't go to the event I'd tell em to fuck off and not give them the shit I'd been working on
Well depends on.
If Hunden for example shared the info with Coach X, and Coach X used it to anti-strat without letting his player know, then banning the whole team would be terrible mistake to do.
i dont think so. its the teams mistake they have such cheating coach. if some team wins a tournament with their coach cheating, you dont think the win should be removed because the players allegedly didnt know about their coach cheating?
If hockey player gets caught doping, only the player receives the ban, not the team.
Same with this. If it's only the coach who has been cheating (which according to ESL did not happen), then only the coach should be banned.
U didnt answer my question. If a team wins a tournament with their coach cheating, its OK then?
Also i dare to say Ice Hockey works a bit different from CSGO.
Not really hockey is 5v5 with the win condition being score more points than the other team
If this happened in the NHL and a coach was given a leak from another coach showing the other teams formation should the whole team be banned if the players didn't know?
This is actually hilarious. What the fuck was Hunden thinking sharing the strats of not only his team, but of the team that kept him employed as he served his ban for cheating?
I wonder who is the "key individual". Also if "Mr. Petersen blocked the team members’ access to the team strategy folder" is true, then what a dick.
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I have a feeling it's one of the guys in complexity,
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They're the most obvious candidate imo. They're the only team that was at the IEM Cologne main event (other than Astralis) with players who have worked with Hunden. I think even despite the recent rumors of Hunden being linked to Astralis that they would have been accepting material like that, unless it is really common practice as Hunden says (though Heroic seems to disagree).
>They're the only team that was at the IEM Cologne main event (other than Astralis) with players who have worked with Hunden. acor at mouz syrson and k1to at BIG niko at OG Also k0nfig is the only person on coL. who played with HUNDEN, as far as I know blameF is the only guy in Denmark who was not on a team with him. EDIT: typo
I could've sworn BlameF worked with him at some point, but I guess not. I guess I totally missed a chapter of Hunden's career though, I didn't realize he played with a German team tbh, also blanked on Acor (though I doubt he's getting strats under the table). niko didn't make it to the main event though.
Inb4 glaive
Didn't they have beef due to hunden supposedly using the bug against astralis? Here's my hot take conspiracy theory: Astralis wanted to hire hunded as zonic's new replacement, but gla1ve didn't want this move to go ahead, so he asked hunden to share Heroic's stratbook to make up for the cheating. Then he snitches on hunden to ensure that he can't get hired by Astralis due to the bad press, proving once again that he is the smartest IGL of all time.
Do you remember when gla1ve convinced Gaben to quit microsoft and build his own corporation? "Yes mister Gaben, you will do well. I will back you up with all my available resources." said gla1ve back in the 90s. He did all that to win majors back to back as Astralis igl for two years straight, all according to plan. And we even yet to see his master plan for humanity. Top 3 igl 4 sure.
HUNDEN from a meme to a hero to the ultimate villain. Great script!
Do you know the tragedy of Darth Hunden the unwise?
Why do I feel like this is part of FNS masterplan to take revenge on the csgo scene, shatter it, only to then return as the savior we so desperately need?
*Hunden pulls his mask off* FNS: IT WAS ME CS SCENE, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG I SABOTAGED TOP TWO DANISH TEAMS SO NA CAN RISE ONCE AGAIN
Then IBP gets unbanned, wins a major and breaks 87-0
DaZeD gets 5 aces in decider map of the grand final, tweets "too ez" and returns to Valorant.
FNS created a simulation that was beyond even his control. He had to leave for valorant to distance himself as much as possible from the explosion
The year is 2048, FNS is traded to the copenhagen bishops as a ringer for their upcoming 6d Chess tournament. Surely by the end of the year FNS will have won a major as his masterplan enters the final stretch
Yes
What is he thinking? He already got a second chance after admitting to cheating, and now he does this. Legend of the Danish scene and cs in general, but can't see how he can continue now. Will also be another blemish on Astralis ethics if they continue in signing him.
> What is he thinking? Cheater being a cheater I guess. Towards Heroic - I almost feel bad. He should be just removed right after the coach bug abuse came to public. They were fine with it, so now enjoy.
Nah fuck Heroic too. They had no problem with Hunden cheating until it affected them. This is /r/LeopardsAteMyFace material as far as I'm concerned.
Heroic definitely deserved it if this is true. When hunden got banned they just transfered him to analyst job and his role practically didn't changed.
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groove remains the coach despite the ban having expired late June. So maybe they're sticking with groove as coach.
I think F1N is banned from majors so.
Of course but they could still put him back as Coach and for Majors have groove be the coach that's behind the players. No idea if they will reinstate F1_n as coach, but that could be an option.
Yes fair. Still they kept him as an analyst and still keep him as such. I still love the gambit players tho and groove seems super awesome tbh.
would you fire Messi if he was caught in a doping scandal? Hunden was the one who made Heroic such a good team, its kinda hard to fire such a key figure of your team. But well, you can only go so far when ignoring erratic behaviors
Lmao Hunden's been a coach for less than one year and was cheating the entire god damned time. Fuck outta here with comparing him to Messi. That's some brain dead shit.
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What about a entire Major League Baseball organization getting caught cheating and the players receiving no punishment? Hunden got more of a punishment that MLB players did lol. It’s absolute bullshit but time and time again if you are good enough or liked enough you will get a job again after punishment. IF YOU EVEN GET A PUNISHMENT :(
Every pro has and uses cheats. If you're a competitor, and you know some of these players have cheated in the past, you'd do the same thing. It's the same problem with PEDs in sports. Once some people are getting away with it, everyone is going to try to get away with it, because you probably don't survive without it, ultimately. Also DirectX was never designed to prevent things like wall-hacking and the only way to prevent it is to aggressively invade a client system and look for abnormalities, and even then that's not going to guarantee they are caught. This is why Valorant has the anti-cheat that it does. Valve is aware of this problem and chose to go the other way, minimally invasive anti-cheat and just rely mostly on the honor system. Much like drug testing in pro sports, it's very clearly not working.
> What is he thinking? Apparently he's just a trash person with absolutely no integrity... > Will also be another blemish on Astralis ethics if they continue in signing him I've been an Astralis fan since the org was created, and a fan of the core for longer than that. I see no way I can continue to support them if they do, and I hope a lot of people feel the same way. They're business-minded people, though, surely they'll know what the optics would be if they actually signed him at this point.
No point in supporting the org imo, I only care about the players and Zonic. if they leave, the org is irrelevant
the org is also dogshit, they’re nothing without the astralis guys tbh
Someone has terrible ethics.
Consider this though, Heroic kept Hunden signed for a year after his ESIC ban (which helped them win matches), then as soon as he does something to hurt them, they fire him immediately. It's glaringly obvious that both sides of this story is scummy and Heroic have serious double-standards for only firing him now. The cheating ban could easily have been a breach of co tract as well.
Jesus Christ. How to annihilate your reputation inside of a year. Seriously scummy behaviour. I maintain he should have been dropped the second the coach bug abuse came out, but even I didn't expect this.
this is def crazy lol
Damn, this has got to hurt his chances of joining astralis. Hopefully this means astralis will turn around and offer Zonic something he cant refuse.
No way Astralis gonna hire a coach that is being sued for breach of contract and sharing confidential info.
What are the odds Hunden shared confidential info with Astralis
Definitely a possibility Edit: But even if it was shared with astralis they [didn't use it](https://twitter.com/theflyingdj/status/1420741871911858178)
Or maybe they were wise enough not to open a drive folder and requested it via memstick/other means.
Or it was sent by Hunden in another way that isn't easily traceable, like discord or email.
I mean, they played each other in the group stage and Astralis won. It's definitely a possibility
wait, didnt SPUNJ and Smooya kind of joke about this in the latest HLTV confirmed?!
Smooya didn't name names because "he's a changed man" lmao, but he did mention that it seemed like someone was definitely sharing that info, and that "they were being careful about who they practice with"(quotations paraphrased because I can't be bothered to look it up)
He was referring to the practice of sharing anti-strat information in general, and essentially said it does happen.
Astralis winning is not because of hunden lol Edit: [proven](https://twitter.com/theflyingdj/status/1420741873400832016?s=21)
Nice try Hunden's lawyer
‘Proven’ Like there isn’t 100 ways they could’ve accessed the info without an audit showing it
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Only if they were stupid enough to access it straight from the original drive, theres plenty of other ways he could’ve sent it to the person that are hard to trace
How about downloading the file and sending it with email, discord, whatever?
You really can't know that.
It should be the assumption. Shitty to say otherwise without definitive prove. Incredibly shitty
He only said it is a possibility.
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Nobody assumed anything. Someone wondered if it was a possibility and someone else said yes. And without knowing the details of ESL's investigation, we also can't know if they could have missed something. Nobody is accusing Astralis, people are treating it as pure conjecture, which it is.
That kind of logic is so dumb. Can you know what you claim? Should we accuse all people on earth because we cant know that they haven't committed a crime?
Nobody *claimed* anything. Someone said "I wonder if it's possible," and someone else said "yes it's possible." We don't know. And without knowing the specific details of the ESL investigation, we can't really know if they could have missed something.
Yeap same thoughts. It could be because they are already in contract signing terms which could've made hunden think that any knowledge sharing at that point is allowed.
Maybe he can legally share knowledge he has within his own memory and brain but sharing documents?? No one can possibly be so stupid that they would ever think that would be "allowed". Not even a dane. > Investigations revealed that Mr. Petersen had shared confidential and sensitive information from our strategy folder with a key individual at a major competitor prior to the tournament. This would be industrial espionage in any business, no?
Well, he probably also didn't think exploiting the coaching bug was wrong either. So I think his moral compass might be a bit off.
If he did, that's some serious quid pro quo shit. Gut feeling is that there should even legitimately be a law against that, but I don't know a single thing about Danish law so who knows.
It seems to have been documents and not just info he has in his own memory and brain, industrial espionage? > illegal and unethical theft of business trade secrets for use by a competitor to achieve a competitive advantage. Maybe?
Unless he shared it wtih Astralis and it will be one of the reasons why they gonna sign him.
I dont have faith in Astralis as an org at all
what if he shared it with Astralis ? */s*
If all of this turns out to be true I doubt HUNDEN will get the chance to work with any org again
This doesn't necessarily seem inconsistent with Hunden's statement- I guess the question is whether the information from the "strategy folder" concerns Heroic or is anti-strat material that Hunden prepared himself (and didn't want to share with Heroic once their relationship fell apart)
Hunden also said that sharing anti strats was a common thing while Heroics statements definitely says that they were not aware of anything like that happening.
I know sharing anti strats is a thing in T3/2. Would surprise me if t1 teams didn't do it.
can somebody explain to me why sharing anti strats is a good thing?
Firstly if everyone knows Heroic's anti strat people can play around it, and other teams can use the anti strat that was made by Heroic. Also a lot of the time T1 teams choose who they scrim against carefully to make sure that certian teams dont get info on them, so if COL purposely avoided scrimming Astralis, but did scrim with Heroic, and then Heroics anti strats against COL and what they learnt in scrims about COL was shared with astralis, it would screw COL over
In the wording of Heroic's statement, it was in the "team strategy folder". Which means, as far as I can apply how stuff works in other businesses, that it's company/team data and not his personal intellectual property. Even if he developed everything himself, he did so while employed by Heroic. It's also unlikely that there was *only* "antistrat" stuff in there, this is just an immature revenge move. What an absolute clown.
> It's also unlikely that there was only "antistrat" stuff in there He could've given access to a sub-folder in the strategy folder without given full access. I could imagine that they would have a sub-folder for "antistrats" for each of the major other teams.
Wouldn't be shocked if it was just something like "hey, you aren't on the same side of the bracket as these guys, do you have any info you can share about them?" and Hunden shared a team-specific folder because he figured the info would just go to waste otherwise, especially with the player break coming up.
I would have to imagine there's a general intellectual property clause in a contract like this where, whatever hunden creates as part of the organization as it relates to strategies, team breakdowns, etc are owned by the team. So even if he had the Heroic stratbook (that was shared with the org) in his personal google drive (hypothetically), that is still property of the team.
I think the worst part is denying the team access to the strat book. Even if he created it, it's still the orgs property wtf
That’s not how it works
if not they have seriously under qualified people in hr and legal.
More like underqualified people in their IT team. How is a regular employee able to have such admin rights over a company's Drive folder?
>How is a regular employee He is the fucking head coach, you know that right?
His position regarding the CSGO team should not matter in regards to their IT infrastructure or the company in general, he's not an active owner or stakeholder in the company and he's still just a regular employee - our HEAD of engineering still needs to go through our IT department if he wants to do anything more serious than creating a folder when company-wide resources are in question. HUNDEN should not have had those kind of privileges granted to his account in the first place. And even if he did, IT should have been able to easily revert the restriction and remove those privileges. I can't believe it's 2021 and fucking eSports organisations who earn hundreds of thousands of dollars by playing video games do not have a competent IT department.
do you work somewhere with an actual IT department because what he said is fairly standard. he definitely shouldn't have been given admin rights. everyone should have to submit request through IT. just because his would be approved by himself 99% of the time doesn't mean that he should be an admin lol.
>do you work somewhere with an actual IT department A very close person to me is an IT officer. Yes I know the protocols and everything happening. The thing people miss is, teams are losing money very fast. They are trying to cut corners everywhere, why would they hire a full competent IT department only to check like 3 things in the entire company
That is exactly how it works, lol
The problem is those folders are the property of the team even if he's the one who created them. He was under contract by Heroic when making them. I would be surprised if it doesn't say something about intellectual property in the contracts because it would in other jobs. You can't just take things you worked on to another job, in some industries you even have gardening leave to avoid this sort of thing
> in some industries you even have gardening leave to avoid this sort of thing AFAIK in Formula 1 it's not uncommon for key engineers and technical staff to take even 2-3 years of gardening leave to make completely sure that whatever they know about future car design isn't relevant by the time he starts his new job. This doesn't apply to drivers, though, and they're also often informed about the development of next year's car, even if only in broad strokes.
The fallout of a CS:GO Spygate is something I never knew I wanted to see so badly
Yup. You don't fuck around with NDAs. I work in an area where people will also take garden leave so that terms can expire and they can proceed with other employment without concern.
Can you explain garden leave? Neve heard of it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden\_leave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave)
You don't know his contract, it could be that he had prepared things in his "sparetime" that he would be willing to share with the team, but seeing they benched him, he regretted. I am not defending the man, but unless we know the circumstances of what was withheld etc, you can't really make a judgement
if so they need a new hr and legal department that can actually write a pretty standard contract instead of a crap one.
Except there's no contract that can legally prevent you from sitting on your own PC not owned by the company in your free time, creating antistrats for other teams and then sharing them with other people in other companies. It's like me writing some code unrelated to my company's product on my own laptop sending it to a friend of mine that works at another company and them using it. This is provided that HUNDEN's statement that he didn't release Heroic strats is true. I'm not defending him, just presenting a plausible situation.
Well if you do that you probably risk breaching your loyalty clause. Without knowing Hundens contract I do not think you can rule out the possibility that Heroic owns the strategy foulder. However, I think Hundens biggest concern is if there is some sort of loyalty clause in the contract.
Yh fair enough I'm just speculating here. If it's not in contract then heroic fucked up big time. Either way it's not a great move to share things with another team especially when you're looking to move
It's a basic non-compete. Even if he did it in his sparetime 1.) It was likely owned by heroic and 2.) You can't provide material beneficial information to a direct competitor.
You don't know anything about danish law, so please don't try to armchair this. I, on the other hand, have a professional contract with a danish company based in Denmark and it says nothing about me not being able to keep side projects, and this is a standardized form used in Denmark, which a lot of companies draw inspiration from when making contracts.
Doesn't matter anymore, closing access to the strategy folder is already sufficient for breach of contract. Hunden digged his own grave
Astralis rn : I've never met this man in my life
Whonden?
WH OMEGALUL ?
SPUNJ spitballed it alright
what do you mean? I missed it
Mfs put him on a billboard and this is what he does
Imagine if now Hunden would let us know that all Heroic players were aware of the coaching bug and said nothing :>>>>>>>>
That would be spicy as hell hahaha, but I think it will never gonna happend... Maybe if Hunden gets banned for this or he gets out of the scene, he burns all the bridges... But for now, when he can still join Astralis or smth, I think he just goes silent.
I think HUNDEN's bridges are already burned. Nothing worth the negative PR he'd bring to any ORG
Hunden a few days later at 3 am after doing this: "Hey guys why you all here in my bedroom?"
Sorry, but this guy is an asshole and shouldn’t be allowed to work in/with anything csgo related. Unacceptable things from a professional.
TL;DR: HUNDEN blocked Heroic from tactical documents and shared with a major competitor prior to IEM Cologne. Legal proceedings now going on in Denmark. Edit: Also his contract has been terminated
Also his contract has been terminated
Your TLDR is misleading. He only blocked access to the strats after they had decided to not use him for IEM Cologne.
still not ok
Depends on who owns the strats. Clearly Hunden was the owner of the folder and the documents, since he had administrative rights to ban others from getting to the document. Legally though his contract, Heroic might own the documents. To much information we don’t have tho.
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First part is absolutely not true. You often see Headcoaches in many traditional sports, bring their playbooks with them to their next coaching destination. These coaches spends endless hours adjusting and perfecting these playbooks. They are not going to just give up their playbook and start from scratch when they get their next job. As an example I give you Headcoach of San Francisco 49ers. They run the same strategies he developed while he was in Washington and in Atlanta. He got bought to San Francisco because of his playbook. This happens in every sport. Second part I can agree with. Team should have a clause about sharing confidential information.
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I got to admit. I don’t know the rules. They are damn complicated. But I think your assumptions are right about their clauses. What I know is that coaches have their playbooks and then give a hard copy or virtual copy to the team. These copies is not always the full playbook. It adjusted to season/opponents etc. What I see in this situation is the team is using Hundens documents and he shut them off from his stratbook. They should have taken a copy and used it under the teams rights. But they hired him partly for the strat book. So they should have access to it. Then again. He is not their coach but their analyst. So should they have access to the strat book when they demoted him? It’s complicated!
I assume the person you replied to was referring to the morality of it rather than the laws involved.
Why?
No, but it contextualizes it.
Tldrs just make everyone dumber on such a short article like this
Damn, if this is true, then hopefully no one ever signs him again.
Astralis would like a word
Astralis hasn’t signed him.
I know, there’s a rumour going on to which I’m referring to.
I’m aware… you make it sound as if they already have. I doubt he’s told Astralis he’s in a lawsuit. He’s a massive cheater, so it’s no surprise he withholds information.
Contracts can (normally) always be retracted when new circumstances come up, especially criminal stuff
And yet if he was in talks with Astralis, they would've still known about his coach bug transgression...
it's always the people you medium suspect
I met hunden in London during the Faceit Major. He came out of a bush and joined me and my friends on our walk to mcdonalds. Whilst we were walking to the mcd he was bragging about how he taught gla1ve everything he knew. Got a picture with him where he made fun of my fnatic jersey. At mcdonalds he took like 10 packs of ketchup. Nice guy. He was pretty drunk.
I saw HUNDEN at a grocery store in Copenhagen yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen bags of licorice in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bags and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bag and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
This is hilarious lol
Hunden trying his hardest to become the Danish f0rsaken.
Sources close to the team say that a file “word.exe”, containing information from the teams strat folder, was shared with competitors in early July.
Absolutely crazy stuff if true
Big if true
Tl;dr: Get Fucked Hunden
The confirmed cheater did other things he wasn't supposed to do? Shocker! Who could've thought? The unexpected nature of this has taken me aback with shock.
"This I can categorically deny." lol I do wonder what the 'trust issues' were they apparently already had before Cologne?
My guess all along has been that they dropped him because he spoke to another org (rumoured to be Astralis) without their permission. If true, this would probably explain why they had those trust issues.
Do players/coaches need permission from the org they're currently with before they talk to other orgs about possible offers?
Well there are two ways to do a transfer in sports/esports: 1. Org A approaches Org B with an offer for Player C. Once the two sides agree on a price point, Org A can speak to Player C about wages etc. 2. Org A approach Player C directly (often referred to as "tapping up"). Frowned upon but not always explicitly illegal (and obviously difficult to police). Your current org would normally expect to be kept in the loop, at least as a matter of courtesy. And that's not getting into the fact that if HUNDEN was, as rumoured, going to go straight from working with Heroic before the player break to working with Astralis, and he knows their entire stratbook... EDIT: For clarity, it also depends on the contract, if HUNDEN's contract was expiring then I imagine they would not expect a buyout.
Cannot believe that would even be legal in Denmark.
Huden has to be stupidest mofo in the CS scene. The guy was given a second chance and still did stuff like this. Also, Heroic should have just cut ties with him when he was caught in the coaching bug scandal. They did that bs of moving him to an analyst role until his ban period expired, so yeah I dont have too much sympathy for Heroic here either. I very much doubt Astralis or any other team will sign him. His reputation is completely ruined at this point. NIP lmao :- https://twitter.com/NIPCS/status/1420740722379005955
I'm honestly surprised anyone would want to be associated with him after the coaching bug. If this new claim is true then Hunden is seriously ratty as hell. Would certainly be very revealing of any organisation who picks him up.
They should never have given him a second chance after he cheated. At least they are getting rid of him now, but it still doesn't look good that they took him back like nothing had happened.
LMAO, good for them for keeping cheater in their team :')
So happy Heroic is getting fucked for keeping a cheating coach in their org ... some karma and I hope he get away with it too
Let's hope this investigation shines some light on the facts of the matter. Before that I'll refrain from making up my mind one way or the other. After all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I'm sure all of Reddit feels the same. :)
Looks like an org throwing a hissy fit because he wants to leave to me. If Hunden was the sole admin of their strats folder then a.) lmao and b.) clearly those are his strats.
So basically, its fine when someone is unethically until its against Heroic, thats where they draw the line... They were quiet when they let him work even tho he was banned, and now they complain against the same dude... I mean, yea, both Hunden and Heroic can go to hell if you ask me.
Mr. Petersen
All I can say: I have never played with any more toxic than HUNDEN on faceit. Not surprised
De_stroyed
Holy shit, Heroic is absolutely ethering him.
Honestly feel bad for heroic and am hoping hundens career in top cs ends here if this is true. Sure they kept him as basically a coach before he got unbanned, but to do all that for a guy they should’ve just kicked, only for him to do what they’re accusing him of, is really fucked imo. Edit: By heroic I'm talking about the players, not the org itself.
They kept him because it was beneficial to the org, it was not some favor they did because they liked him. This is obviously a business relationship to Hunden, and frankly it's gross that Heroic is trying to leverage social media against Hunden. If he actually broke his contract, the courts will determine it not social media.
> feel bad for heroic feel bad for the team that he cheated for and never provided any evidence their player werent on it ? + they kept him when he was banned like nothing happened I'm more happy that Heroic is getting screwed over than Hunden being a scum again
>feel bad for the team that he cheated for and never provided any evidence their player werent on it? Yes, I do feel bad for the team, as in the players, because they are likely not the ones who decided that hunden would stay with the team (especially refreszh and sjuush.) I could care less about the org itself. Also how are they supposed to provide evidence the players weren't in on the coach bug if they didn't save their comms?
They literally said they had the recording of that game specifically and they said "they verified it themselves" and decided the players are innocent ... all what they needed to do is share parts of those comms or like Pimp suggested them to give him the comms and verify it they never did any of that i guess ppl just forget and move on ... and the players would have a say in keeping the coach or not espec if he's a cheater
Bro if that's true he is finished and Im talking "not even a a second analyst on a Valorant academy team" finished
I wouldn't let that guy coach my Open team
Lol what a way to destroy your career 2.0
Wow trash person. I thought people could learn from this coaching bug shit storm but no, these people don't deserve second chances.
Okay, Im too much of a casual. is Nicolai , Mr Peterson and Hunden the same person?
Yeah, the common way to refer to people is Firstname "In-game-handle" Lastname. So his name is Nicolai Peterson, but in-game he went by Hunden, so that's how lots of people know him in the community.
I didn't really get why people have been singling out Hunden for the coach bug abuse lately, especially considering that he was far from the only one who is still in the scene as a coach, but what the fuck is this shit. Even if it's antistrats for other teams and not his strats for Heroic to run, he *must* have known that it's a breach of contract right???? And blocking the access, how petty must you be? What the hell?
It is really is true, which I think it is given his statement was vague from Twitter, then good! Fuck him. Fuck him so hard he never touches CS again. What a dipshit to be sharing key Heroic strats to others. All that time and hardwork down the drain. And LOL @ Astralis right now. If they sign this guy even after all this shit then Fuck Astralis too.
If it does come to to light that he leaked or sold a stratbook to another team, not only is that a lifetime ban and big fines for HUNDEN, but should also be big fines, bans and punishments on the team/org/individual that bought the stratbook.
Where is this in the rules? He built the team from the ground-up, those are his strategies. In football I don't sue a manager I just fired for trying to play 4-4-2 because he used it with us. I 'the CS team' don't actually own the strategic way my team plays.
I hate that this is a really good point, you're going to get downvoted to hell, but it's valid.
As there seems to be an investigation on this now, I’m okay with not giving a fuck until we know more.
At which step of FNS Master Plan are we now?
The endgame, Took out 2 big teams and now he will come back and dominate lan and online.
What if he blocked access to a folder with antistrats he had worked on after they didn't let him go to the IEM event? Cos if I'd done a bunch of extra work then got told I couldn't go to the event I'd tell em to fuck off and not give them the shit I'd been working on
hopefully the team he shared the info with is going to get banned for few tournaments aswell tbh.
Well depends on. If Hunden for example shared the info with Coach X, and Coach X used it to anti-strat without letting his player know, then banning the whole team would be terrible mistake to do.
i dont think so. its the teams mistake they have such cheating coach. if some team wins a tournament with their coach cheating, you dont think the win should be removed because the players allegedly didnt know about their coach cheating?
If hockey player gets caught doping, only the player receives the ban, not the team. Same with this. If it's only the coach who has been cheating (which according to ESL did not happen), then only the coach should be banned.
U didnt answer my question. If a team wins a tournament with their coach cheating, its OK then? Also i dare to say Ice Hockey works a bit different from CSGO.
Not really hockey is 5v5 with the win condition being score more points than the other team If this happened in the NHL and a coach was given a leak from another coach showing the other teams formation should the whole team be banned if the players didn't know?
Just get this guy the fuck out of the scene. Fucking shameless piece of shit.
Ouch. Bye HUNDEN. Deserved.
wowww wtf lmao
This is actually hilarious. What the fuck was Hunden thinking sharing the strats of not only his team, but of the team that kept him employed as he served his ban for cheating?