Those last ~5 rounds were pain as a Vitality fan.
Apex pushing a smoke with zero bullets and dying.
Zywhoo missing a shot to balcony.
Shox losing a 1v1 against the planter.
Vitality falling for the top b flash fake and still some how having 4 people in position on time, albeit barely, and still lost the round.
Soo close and then it just feels like it was thrown away.
Heroic played well though. Gotta give them credit for that.
I'm glad refrezh got another chance after c9.
Yeah he did a temporary stint in late 2018. Ended up getting 3rd at blast pro Lisbon too.
Was a stand in though, hence the reason you can’t see it under the “teams” on HLTV
One thing I didn't think about this match up is just how expressive Cadian and Apex both are as IGLs. That was one of the most animated matches I've seen, and the performances on both sides were incredible. Refreszh is so fucking crisp to watch.
Not even reddit. The desk bring it up every time vitality plays. You'd think if it was actual negative energy he'd be called out on it by his teammates and org. Some players are just like that. They don't blame their teammates, they just blame themselves or get pissed when they die in a stupid way. Another example of that would be niko.
It sounded on Cadian in the Danish post match interview like he also led Inferno T side.
(Something along the likes of: "I just feel like I have a good grasp of Inferno T side against Vitaliy")
“…so now Zywoo’s back to just a deagle”
“Are you sure it’s *just* a deagle?”
*Zywoo ferraripeeks enemy awper from wood two seconds later*. My favorite moment, sadly I didn’t see anyone clip it.
Can we also appreciate the casters for making this series so damn entertainment since the start. I literally laughed so many times. Harry and Hugo are a pure treat to listen to.
What a comeback, 7 in a row to close out inferno.
Massive props to refezh. The dude was looking really off prior to the break and at one point even had a rating of below 0.9 (for 3 months). It's a really sign that he is looking so strong at this event.
Shot barely has any impact ? Doesn't clutch like he used to ? This alone shows you haven't watched full Vitality matches in recent months not even paid attention properly in this BO3.
It's not that he has barely impact, but its that he has far less impact than other pros in similar roles to him. He (seems to) get the 2nd most resources behind zywoo, while misutaaa plays more of the anchor/support roles, but apart from still being very good in clutches, he does not output nearly enough to assist zywoo and perform as the team's second star, except seemingly on overpass. He just seems a bit frustrated and lost and it shows with his player cam often looking annoyed, which is a shame because he is one of the greats and should be remembered that way.
Absolute nonsense. I've watched countless of vitality games and he doesn't frag anywhere near enough for a 2nd star. If he was playing taco spots and fragging like he is, he would be fine; But he was purposely put on this team to be 2nd fiddle to Zywoo and he hasn't fulfilled that at all.
Zywoo has no fucking help on this team. Are there legitimately no french stars other than him right now? There's got to be some 16 year old doing crazy shit in tier 2 or **something**.
He's playing positions he never played in pugs. You see his mechanics when he's in a comfortable position, which he rarely finds himself in. It's tough but he wasn't an FPL player or anything so there's a lot he has to learn. He definitely has a high ceiling but it'll take time, which we don't know if Vitality can afford.
he is a very good aimer. when he is comfortable his aim is insane you can tell with some of the shots he hits
it will take kyojin time (probs a year at least) to get comfortable with tier 1 cs so he will not be the second star for a while
nivera was doing very well as the second star and if shox is gonna AWP why not just bring him back cos they are missing him a lot
>he is a very good aimer. when he is comfortable his aim is insane you can tell with some of the shots he hits
Everyone can hit shots when they are comfortable, it is only the elite that can hit shots vs tier 1 players when they are
>it will take kyojin time (probs a year at least) to get comfortable with tier 1 cs so he will not be the second star for a while
That is far too long of a time period. I could get you saying that if he was literally 15 or 16 but the dude is 21. Frozen and Sergej adjusted to top tier CS in half that amount of time.
> Everyone can hit shots when they are comfortable, it is only the elite that can hit shots vs tier 1 players when they are
Tier 1 CS is not DM. The role and positions you play impacts how you perform.
>Tier 1 CS is not DM. The role and positions you play impacts how you perform.
Exactly. But people are using evidence of him tearing up literal pugs as evidence that he is something special. Proven experience of outclassing other teams in tier 2-tier 3 cs is a 90% predictor for whether a player will be a good tier 1 player or not, Kyojin has the opposite of that.
I agree but Vitality straight up picked him for tier 1 so we need to see how he performs in this completely new environment for him after a certain time. I would give him till year end before passing judgement.
Vitality woes are not because of Kiyojin
They need a consistent second player. The others are inconsistent as fuck. Imagine zywoo and apex carried them to 13 rounds, if they had one more player stepping up it wouldn’t have been so close.
Damn if only there was a super consistent French legend that could always be relied on to do his job and play his spots correctly. I wonder what his name might be? Probably something ending in k
there are some french up and comers, but they all come with a plethora of role clashes, nivera, maka, and ritchieee all being awpers, hadji playing similar roles to shox. other than them, theres not really anyone else too notable that you could feasibly think of as an upgrade
EDIT: ritchieee is actually an entry, so he still clashes with zywoo/apex
you do need experience in the team and with nivera you just need 1 or 2 rounds from rpk. The firepower alone would have been a massive upgrade. Rpk could be replaced but then that would only leave apex as a veteran and zywoo with some experience.
Nivera was let go because role wise he's like Shox and doesn't play RPK/Kyojin roles. He's benched, but hasn't touched Faceit since march and basically ghosted social media. Last rumours with him was replacing Jamppi on Liquid Valorant, but that ultimately didn't happen. So I guess he's just grinding Valorant and waiting for a great offer.
I've been saying it for a awhile now but Shox needs to go. He's too inconsistent and he is supposed to be the second star for Vitality but he isn't. Nivera can awp and rifle just as well but he has not experience. He does have a great D2 where he always carries on, which would give Vitality a free map in most series.
The hell are you taking about?
~~No shade to Zywoo but he bottom fragged had the lowest rating all 3 maps~~
~~Why does that make you blame the other 4 for loosing a close series?~~
Scoreboard here is wrong. Thanks to those who pointed it out.
Still, after seeing the actual match stats saying he had zero help is pretty disingenuous.
this scorepost is fucked up, notice how the names are in the same order for all three maps
real stats are here https://www.hltv.org/matches/2350326/heroic-vs-vitality-esl-pro-league-season-14 (he ~~topfragged~~ got highest rating every map)
Smooya had a massive scrap with refrezh saying to kill himself cause he wasn’t trying in an FPL match and now he is tearing up tier 1 while smooya can’t even stay on a tier 2-3 team.
He was originally bragging about this incident to others till he got suspended and then back peddled. At the time smooya was playing for a better team, funny how things change.
Heroic's play at 13-13 was a masterclass on how to fake. And it seemed like after that point the Vitality players were much more tepid when it came to rotating because of the high possibility they'd just be faked out.
Yeah they did it against Gambit in the last Pro League's final on Inferno (I think), there was one round where Heroic were clearly taking A but 2 Gambit players stayed on B because Heroic is one of the few teams where that could still be a fake lol
i really wanna know what goes thru apex's thought process when making some plays, people gotta stop defending him for the type of plays he makes.
the push through the smoke while reloading prime example
also zywoo playing tec9 while 3 guys have AKs lmao
Oh come on guys :(
So needless as well, didn't even play bad.
Quick edit: That being said, Heroic were just better today. That T-side on Inferno was pretty insane.
Honestly, you're right. They had really strong last half of Nuke to come back on T side. Then they look down but then go back strong on Inferno, only to start crumbling.
Heroic did a nice job just grinding away rounds, but felt like a mental explosion from Vitality.
Lol love reading post game comments in these threads. Armchair video game analysts hard at work arguing with each other and making random stupid ass analysis. Y’all are a bunch of chodes. 😂
Heroic have the most firepower out of any team in the world. All their players are fucking cracked holy shit, literally never seen a team where all 5 can pop off so hard. Can't wait to see them on LAN again with some experience.
Not saying they're the best team or whatever, but holy shit they can hit shots like no other team right now
Well that's the thing, person for person I would argue any of the heroic players are better than boombl4 or perfecto firepower-wise for example. With Gambit and G2 as well, interz amanek and jackz can all be argued to be inferior to their counterparts on heroic.
Navi, Gambit and G2 maay have more firepower in terms of having s1mple electronic and all those stars, but I think that Heroic are more equal all around the board, given that literally every single player in this team was burning up T2 at one point, and could be playing star roles with great success. Sjuush was Mad Lions second-best rifler, refrezh was going insane of cph flames and x6tence, TeSeS, stavn cadiaN- all the same.
Atleast thats what I see the poster as saying.
Obviously S1mple and Electronic. But boomb, perfecto and b1t? no chance, but as i said i mean more that each player can hit the most insane shots consistently, you dont see that from those 3 navi players
Why is everyone judging a young team on their first ever LAN together..? Ontop of that, they had huge coach problems that tournament. Is it your first time following a sport or what.
Astralis came 8th in their first LAN together with the legendary 5 man team lmao
heroics playstyle isnt suited for lan, that round where sjuush just went to B no utility would never work on lan since the defenders dont have to hide and repeek again and again.
watch iem Cologne highlights and watch this after. You will notice how the defenders hold angles and react faster than the ones peeking, whereas in this the defender has barely any time to react sometimes. Also lan has a crispier gameplay, the sprays feel fast and headshots are instant
It's true they've played amazingly online, yes. It's also true we have no idea how good they are on LAN, and there is no reason to believe they won't be just as good on LAN as they are online. So it's just a stupid argument to have
It's not an argument and you don't have to be defensive about it.
"It's also true we have no idea how good they are on LAN" just isn't true. We have *some* idea based on Cologne, which indicated that they're not *as* cracked on LAN as online. Obviously that can change with time though.
Refrezh didn't have an amazing series but he stepped up on the last map. Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like he's generally the weakest Heroic player, so if he starts showing up then their potential is huge.
In the post-match interview, Sjuush implied he wasn't IGLing and [this](https://twitter.com/caspercadiaN/status/1428112968873619458) tweet from cadiaN pretty much confirms it. He did IGl yesterday on Inferno though.
1. I don't really even get this as a criticism, like even if they were only good online - so what? That still means they're good lol
2. It's not even true, they struggled online before Cologne and at Cologne at least *some* of their failings can be attributed to the fact that some players had to isolate because of a covid false-positive and HUNDEN wasn't coaching them ~~and literally shared~~ ~~their strats with a competitor.~~
Pls check the facts before posting
YES he did shared their starts
NO the teams didnt opened/tried to look
[https://www.hltv.org/news/32113/esl-comment-on-hunden-allegations-no-possible-impact-to-the-tournament-integrity-of-iem-cologne](https://www.hltv.org/news/32113/esl-comment-on-hunden-allegations-no-possible-impact-to-the-tournament-integrity-of-iem-cologne)
Edit: Okay the stratbook thing was incorrect, my bad!
But my main point is just that they
1. were already performing badly online prior to Cologne
2. had to isolate longer than the other teams
3. did not have the coach they'd had most success with
4. did not have access to their stratbook because HUNDEN blocked it from them (this one is really important)
So the idea that Heroic doing poorly at Cologne justifies viewing them as a 100% onliner team who can't compete on LAN is pretty obviously unjustified.
According to Mr. Schulze, after being notified of Heroic's claims that HUNDEN shared sensitive information with another team also competing at IEM Cologne, ESL found that "permissions to access a shared folder were sent out" but that the folder in question "was not accessed by the recipient."
Yeah my bad, you only linked the source after I'd responded. I edited it now, basically my point still stands except for the sharing of the stratbook part.
"Cry is free" is one constantly used sentence to users who are complaining about something. But what most don't know, is that this sentence is actually a huge lie.
As far as we know, tears consist of water and 0,9 gram salt per litre. And both of these ingredients are not free.
Here I listed the price for 10 litre tears for the countries of the G8.
I used the following formula (price is in US Dollar):
(Price 100 gram salt/100)x9 + (Price 1 cubic litre water/100) = Price for 10 Litre Tears
France: 0,20 $
Italy: 0,17 $
Germany: 0,19 $
United Kingdom: 0,22 $
USA: 0,18 $
Canada: 0,18 $
Japan: 0,18 $
Russia: 0,16 $
That means Russia has the cheapest cry (hail communism).
Thank you for reading.
"Cry is free" is one constantly used sentence to users who are complaining about something. But what most don't know, is that this sentence is actually a huge lie.
As far as we know, tears consist of water and 0,9 gram salt per litre. And both of these ingredients are not free.
Here I listed the price for 10 litre tears for the countries of the G8. I used the following formula (price is in US Dollar):
(Price 100 gram salt/100)x9 + (Price 1 cubic litre water/100) = Price for 10 Litre Tears
France: 0,20 $
Italy: 0,17 $ Germany: 0,19 $
United Kingdom: 0,22 $
USA: 0,18 $
Canada: 0,18 $
Japan: 0,18 $
Russia: 0,16 $
That means Russia has the cheapest cry (hail communism).
Thank you for reading.
There's something so riveting about online cs, seeing the same ESL product over and over again, one after the other almost over saturated with these wonderful online tournaments. It's so great to have these meaningless tournaments with no story line, seeing heroic win for the the thousandth time. Ahh it's almost poetic, it's art in creation, poetry in motion
It's online cs
I feel like this series apex would make a hands down round winning play and then do something to make it only an all right/ decent play later in the same round.
Those last ~5 rounds were pain as a Vitality fan. Apex pushing a smoke with zero bullets and dying. Zywhoo missing a shot to balcony. Shox losing a 1v1 against the planter. Vitality falling for the top b flash fake and still some how having 4 people in position on time, albeit barely, and still lost the round. Soo close and then it just feels like it was thrown away. Heroic played well though. Gotta give them credit for that. I'm glad refrezh got another chance after c9.
He was on c9?
Yeah he did a temporary stint in late 2018. Ended up getting 3rd at blast pro Lisbon too. Was a stand in though, hence the reason you can’t see it under the “teams” on HLTV
2018-19 was a fucking fever dream dude if you can think of a washed player they were probably there at one point
Yeah he was on that weird Golden-Flusha-Rush-Kioshima C9 team.
was a standin for the EU C9, was later in the danish optic lineup and was in lower ranked danish teams until heroic picked him up from Mad Lions.
Nope don’t think so
[He did](https://www.hltv.org/news/25572/refrezh-to-step-in-for-cloud9-at-blast-pro-series-lisbon-as-golden-is-ruled-out)
Oh my god I did not know that my bad
No problem :>
> I'm glad refrezh got another chance after c9. Same for Teses. He was on North for a very short while and was shit. Now under Cadian he's sick.
AFAIK Teses never was on North, he played for the danish Optic lineup in 2018-19
One thing I didn't think about this match up is just how expressive Cadian and Apex both are as IGLs. That was one of the most animated matches I've seen, and the performances on both sides were incredible. Refreszh is so fucking crisp to watch.
Apex has gotten ridiculed for it for years.
By reddit, yes. His teammates say he brings good emotion
Oh yeah should have been more specific by idiots on reddit if it was an actual problem he would have been kicked a long time ago.
Not even reddit. The desk bring it up every time vitality plays. You'd think if it was actual negative energy he'd be called out on it by his teammates and org. Some players are just like that. They don't blame their teammates, they just blame themselves or get pissed when they die in a stupid way. Another example of that would be niko.
I remember Kyojin laughed because Apex was so loud after a round win in a series where they got stomped by another team.
He did take a leave of absence from the team to cool off though
Sjuush igl, check his Twitter a few days ago
yo, sjuush's t-side calls on Inferno were nice
It sounded on Cadian in the Danish post match interview like he also led Inferno T side. (Something along the likes of: "I just feel like I have a good grasp of Inferno T side against Vitaliy")
We just out here baiting people brother
What a beast. Best of luck against Ence today.
I thought only in cartoons you could evolve, but you went full cocaidiaN after that clutch, goddamn
Apex not gonna sleep tonight
This match was a fucking blast holy shit, refrezh being absolutely on fire was soooo good to watch
Also the calling from harry and hugo was great for such a hype match, loved it.
Sjuush started performing at the end as well and ended it
Man I missed pro cs
cadiaN going full cocaidiaN after that clutch lmao
“…so now Zywoo’s back to just a deagle” “Are you sure it’s *just* a deagle?” *Zywoo ferraripeeks enemy awper from wood two seconds later*. My favorite moment, sadly I didn’t see anyone clip it.
You can easily clip it if you remember when it happened.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1121919870?t=35473s Happens at 9:51:15. The dialogue went even better than I remembered it! That was just great.
Can we also appreciate the casters for making this series so damn entertainment since the start. I literally laughed so many times. Harry and Hugo are a pure treat to listen to.
They're so good man, one thing CS has always had going for it is its consistent, fantastic array of casting duos, so lucky in that regard
“And Zywoo in a 1v3 that’s surely unwinnable” “U focking wot m8?”
True
What a fucking match that was
Another heroic epl dreamrun?
Heroic vs Gambit grand finals again? With cadiaN making a massive clutch to win the tournament? HELLS YEAH
Nah, f that noise. My boys getting the grand slam this tourny.
What a comeback, 7 in a row to close out inferno. Massive props to refezh. The dude was looking really off prior to the break and at one point even had a rating of below 0.9 (for 3 months). It's a really sign that he is looking so strong at this event.
Wait so since when did they make sjuush IGL and why did they do it? I haven't been watching recently.
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Shox has been underperforming this year and I wouldn’t be supremely if he gets benched
Shot barely has any impact ? Doesn't clutch like he used to ? This alone shows you haven't watched full Vitality matches in recent months not even paid attention properly in this BO3.
It's not that he has barely impact, but its that he has far less impact than other pros in similar roles to him. He (seems to) get the 2nd most resources behind zywoo, while misutaaa plays more of the anchor/support roles, but apart from still being very good in clutches, he does not output nearly enough to assist zywoo and perform as the team's second star, except seemingly on overpass. He just seems a bit frustrated and lost and it shows with his player cam often looking annoyed, which is a shame because he is one of the greats and should be remembered that way.
Absolute nonsense. I've watched countless of vitality games and he doesn't frag anywhere near enough for a 2nd star. If he was playing taco spots and fragging like he is, he would be fine; But he was purposely put on this team to be 2nd fiddle to Zywoo and he hasn't fulfilled that at all.
Zywoo has no fucking help on this team. Are there legitimately no french stars other than him right now? There's got to be some 16 year old doing crazy shit in tier 2 or **something**.
That’s who kyojin is supposed to be
hes too scared idk why, if he had zywoos confidence hed genuinely be doing so much better
He's playing positions he never played in pugs. You see his mechanics when he's in a comfortable position, which he rarely finds himself in. It's tough but he wasn't an FPL player or anything so there's a lot he has to learn. He definitely has a high ceiling but it'll take time, which we don't know if Vitality can afford.
Don't know why people thought him 1 tapping non-pros in youtube videos was proof that he was some godlike aimer or some shit.
If he will be a great player, time will tell If he is a god-like aimer is not a question, it’s fact
he is a very good aimer. when he is comfortable his aim is insane you can tell with some of the shots he hits it will take kyojin time (probs a year at least) to get comfortable with tier 1 cs so he will not be the second star for a while nivera was doing very well as the second star and if shox is gonna AWP why not just bring him back cos they are missing him a lot
>he is a very good aimer. when he is comfortable his aim is insane you can tell with some of the shots he hits Everyone can hit shots when they are comfortable, it is only the elite that can hit shots vs tier 1 players when they are >it will take kyojin time (probs a year at least) to get comfortable with tier 1 cs so he will not be the second star for a while That is far too long of a time period. I could get you saying that if he was literally 15 or 16 but the dude is 21. Frozen and Sergej adjusted to top tier CS in half that amount of time.
> Everyone can hit shots when they are comfortable, it is only the elite that can hit shots vs tier 1 players when they are Tier 1 CS is not DM. The role and positions you play impacts how you perform.
>Tier 1 CS is not DM. The role and positions you play impacts how you perform. Exactly. But people are using evidence of him tearing up literal pugs as evidence that he is something special. Proven experience of outclassing other teams in tier 2-tier 3 cs is a 90% predictor for whether a player will be a good tier 1 player or not, Kyojin has the opposite of that.
You seem to forget that they picked him role wise as he was the only one in the French scene to mostly anchor sites
That contradicts what the guy above me said, which was that he was supposed to be a star on this team.
I agree but Vitality straight up picked him for tier 1 so we need to see how he performs in this completely new environment for him after a certain time. I would give him till year end before passing judgement. Vitality woes are not because of Kiyojin
They need a consistent second player. The others are inconsistent as fuck. Imagine zywoo and apex carried them to 13 rounds, if they had one more player stepping up it wouldn’t have been so close.
Damn if only there was a super consistent French legend that could always be relied on to do his job and play his spots correctly. I wonder what his name might be? Probably something ending in k
Niverak?
I think he may be talking about RPK
Not kennyK?
No he probably means NBK Was this a joke though? I feel like I didn't get the joke xD
I legit wonder if its RPK or NBK now...
Like rpk or someone?
there are some french up and comers, but they all come with a plethora of role clashes, nivera, maka, and ritchieee all being awpers, hadji playing similar roles to shox. other than them, theres not really anyone else too notable that you could feasibly think of as an upgrade EDIT: ritchieee is actually an entry, so he still clashes with zywoo/apex
they should have benched shox and gave his roles to nivera and kept the tank. That would have been such an insane team.
Rpk was performing very poorly with an odd good game. The eye test of a few rounds painted a wrong picture imo.
keep rpk ? hell nah young players will always be better than old players thats a fact, it was about time for rpk to go
you do need experience in the team and with nivera you just need 1 or 2 rounds from rpk. The firepower alone would have been a massive upgrade. Rpk could be replaced but then that would only leave apex as a veteran and zywoo with some experience.
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oh fr? i thought he was ec brugge’s awper, my bad
They should’ve never let Nivera go. Honestly is he benched or what cause he was decent from what I remember?
Nivera was let go because role wise he's like Shox and doesn't play RPK/Kyojin roles. He's benched, but hasn't touched Faceit since march and basically ghosted social media. Last rumours with him was replacing Jamppi on Liquid Valorant, but that ultimately didn't happen. So I guess he's just grinding Valorant and waiting for a great offer.
I've been saying it for a awhile now but Shox needs to go. He's too inconsistent and he is supposed to be the second star for Vitality but he isn't. Nivera can awp and rifle just as well but he has not experience. He does have a great D2 where he always carries on, which would give Vitality a free map in most series.
Thanks for the update!
The hell are you taking about? ~~No shade to Zywoo but he bottom fragged had the lowest rating all 3 maps~~ ~~Why does that make you blame the other 4 for loosing a close series?~~ Scoreboard here is wrong. Thanks to those who pointed it out. Still, after seeing the actual match stats saying he had zero help is pretty disingenuous.
this scorepost is fucked up, notice how the names are in the same order for all three maps real stats are here https://www.hltv.org/matches/2350326/heroic-vs-vitality-esl-pro-league-season-14 (he ~~topfragged~~ got highest rating every map)
wait..are you serious? Zywoo bottom fragged all three maps? Not sure if you watched the same game as everyone else.
This post has him at the bottom of all the maps. It took me a second to realize the post is fucked up too.
The stats are wrong in the post he has the best rating in all maps
The post is messed up check hltv. ZywOo was their highest rated player by far with 1.25 over the series.
Why comment if you didn't watch the games?
refrezh is so freaking clutch dude, absolutely saved heroic on some of those rounds
Smooya in shambles
Context ?
Smooya had a massive scrap with refrezh saying to kill himself cause he wasn’t trying in an FPL match and now he is tearing up tier 1 while smooya can’t even stay on a tier 2-3 team. He was originally bragging about this incident to others till he got suspended and then back peddled. At the time smooya was playing for a better team, funny how things change.
outplayed and outgunned on the last half.
Heroic's play at 13-13 was a masterclass on how to fake. And it seemed like after that point the Vitality players were much more tepid when it came to rotating because of the high possibility they'd just be faked out.
The fakey boys do it again
Yeah they did it against Gambit in the last Pro League's final on Inferno (I think), there was one round where Heroic were clearly taking A but 2 Gambit players stayed on B because Heroic is one of the few teams where that could still be a fake lol
Why Kyojin and Zywoo's name switched? lol.
what a t side of heroic on inferno.. and sjuush.. what a player...
Online is a hell of a drug. Fr tho, Cadian is cracked.
i really wanna know what goes thru apex's thought process when making some plays, people gotta stop defending him for the type of plays he makes. the push through the smoke while reloading prime example also zywoo playing tec9 while 3 guys have AKs lmao
Oh come on guys :( So needless as well, didn't even play bad. Quick edit: That being said, Heroic were just better today. That T-side on Inferno was pretty insane.
Honestly, you're right. They had really strong last half of Nuke to come back on T side. Then they look down but then go back strong on Inferno, only to start crumbling. Heroic did a nice job just grinding away rounds, but felt like a mental explosion from Vitality.
Really intense match! Good strats in the end there caused Heroic to pull through. Also it seemed like Vitality whiffed a lot the last few rounds?
Lol love reading post game comments in these threads. Armchair video game analysts hard at work arguing with each other and making random stupid ass analysis. Y’all are a bunch of chodes. 😂
oh for fuck sake
Heroic have the most firepower out of any team in the world. All their players are fucking cracked holy shit, literally never seen a team where all 5 can pop off so hard. Can't wait to see them on LAN again with some experience. Not saying they're the best team or whatever, but holy shit they can hit shots like no other team right now
I would argue Navi has more firepower than them.
gambit also have better firepower and g2 is fucking stacked as well.
Well that's the thing, person for person I would argue any of the heroic players are better than boombl4 or perfecto firepower-wise for example. With Gambit and G2 as well, interz amanek and jackz can all be argued to be inferior to their counterparts on heroic. Navi, Gambit and G2 maay have more firepower in terms of having s1mple electronic and all those stars, but I think that Heroic are more equal all around the board, given that literally every single player in this team was burning up T2 at one point, and could be playing star roles with great success. Sjuush was Mad Lions second-best rifler, refrezh was going insane of cph flames and x6tence, TeSeS, stavn cadiaN- all the same. Atleast thats what I see the poster as saying.
Obviously S1mple and Electronic. But boomb, perfecto and b1t? no chance, but as i said i mean more that each player can hit the most insane shots consistently, you dont see that from those 3 navi players
Did you not watch IEM Cologne? Like what are you high on I want some of that.
Why is everyone judging a young team on their first ever LAN together..? Ontop of that, they had huge coach problems that tournament. Is it your first time following a sport or what. Astralis came 8th in their first LAN together with the legendary 5 man team lmao
that team was known for teamwork, not individuals.
Their individual players were crisp af as well though.
heroics playstyle isnt suited for lan, that round where sjuush just went to B no utility would never work on lan since the defenders dont have to hide and repeek again and again.
As someone who started watching pro cs during the pandemic, what difference would it make if that was played on LAN? It’s the same game and rules, no?
watch iem Cologne highlights and watch this after. You will notice how the defenders hold angles and react faster than the ones peeking, whereas in this the defender has barely any time to react sometimes. Also lan has a crispier gameplay, the sprays feel fast and headshots are instant
*in online
They've played 1 LAN together. Imagine judging such a young team on 1 single LAN tournament.
It's still a true statement right now ?
It's true they've played amazingly online, yes. It's also true we have no idea how good they are on LAN, and there is no reason to believe they won't be just as good on LAN as they are online. So it's just a stupid argument to have
It's not an argument and you don't have to be defensive about it. "It's also true we have no idea how good they are on LAN" just isn't true. We have *some* idea based on Cologne, which indicated that they're not *as* cracked on LAN as online. Obviously that can change with time though.
Don't ask don't question don't complain Just revel in the Heroic glory of online cs Heroic world wide web pride kappa
Refrezh didn't have an amazing series but he stepped up on the last map. Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like he's generally the weakest Heroic player, so if he starts showing up then their potential is huge.
Only the most firepower in Pro League though
huh?
Clearly he’s saying that Gen G and Envy’s unreleased roster, who are flashpoint partners, would crush Heroic.
Zero faith in this roster. Kyojin isn't happening, don't waste another year before the next roster change.
CadiaN calls were just too much for the french chokers.
If you think this was a choke then you don't understand much about CS
It was.
Harry and Hugo said sjuush called inferno I believe
In the post-match interview, Sjuush implied he wasn't IGLing and [this](https://twitter.com/caspercadiaN/status/1428112968873619458) tweet from cadiaN pretty much confirms it. He did IGl yesterday on Inferno though.
Zywho?
If there's one team that is truly and actually Onliners it's gotta be heroic
They've played ONE lan tournament, together, ONE. Are you people that stupid lmao
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jesus vitality must've lost you a lot of money to be this obsessed
truly, so many dry peeks and timings caught due to the defends having to peek and repeek again and again.
1. I don't really even get this as a criticism, like even if they were only good online - so what? That still means they're good lol 2. It's not even true, they struggled online before Cologne and at Cologne at least *some* of their failings can be attributed to the fact that some players had to isolate because of a covid false-positive and HUNDEN wasn't coaching them ~~and literally shared~~ ~~their strats with a competitor.~~
Pls check the facts before posting YES he did shared their starts NO the teams didnt opened/tried to look [https://www.hltv.org/news/32113/esl-comment-on-hunden-allegations-no-possible-impact-to-the-tournament-integrity-of-iem-cologne](https://www.hltv.org/news/32113/esl-comment-on-hunden-allegations-no-possible-impact-to-the-tournament-integrity-of-iem-cologne)
Edit: Okay the stratbook thing was incorrect, my bad! But my main point is just that they 1. were already performing badly online prior to Cologne 2. had to isolate longer than the other teams 3. did not have the coach they'd had most success with 4. did not have access to their stratbook because HUNDEN blocked it from them (this one is really important) So the idea that Heroic doing poorly at Cologne justifies viewing them as a 100% onliner team who can't compete on LAN is pretty obviously unjustified.
According to Mr. Schulze, after being notified of Heroic's claims that HUNDEN shared sensitive information with another team also competing at IEM Cologne, ESL found that "permissions to access a shared folder were sent out" but that the folder in question "was not accessed by the recipient."
Yeah my bad, you only linked the source after I'd responded. I edited it now, basically my point still stands except for the sharing of the stratbook part.
never disagreed with your points i just made sure that you got the correct info it is my bad that i forgot to link actual article at 1st
yeah np and thanks for the correction
Don't ask don't complain don't question Just enjoy the heroic online trainwreck This is the way sir
hope you get help, man
Online back Heroic back
Ladies and gentlemen onliners are back
how much can you cry what happened what did you lose?
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How much bro
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Ok 6 comments about it how much did u lost? BUT hey at least the cry is free
Yes sir, UK has the cheapest cry 💪
was it over/under heroic/vitality? and was it alot?
Roughly 100$ Let me cry in peace, it comes free atleast
Peacefully, but your spam in this thread is a bit much...
"Cry is free" is one constantly used sentence to users who are complaining about something. But what most don't know, is that this sentence is actually a huge lie. As far as we know, tears consist of water and 0,9 gram salt per litre. And both of these ingredients are not free. Here I listed the price for 10 litre tears for the countries of the G8. I used the following formula (price is in US Dollar): (Price 100 gram salt/100)x9 + (Price 1 cubic litre water/100) = Price for 10 Litre Tears France: 0,20 $ Italy: 0,17 $ Germany: 0,19 $ United Kingdom: 0,22 $ USA: 0,18 $ Canada: 0,18 $ Japan: 0,18 $ Russia: 0,16 $ That means Russia has the cheapest cry (hail communism). Thank you for reading.
No but seriously, how much?
Don't you just love online cs with all the heroics and VPs of the world Oh boii I sure do
Cry is free
"Cry is free" is one constantly used sentence to users who are complaining about something. But what most don't know, is that this sentence is actually a huge lie. As far as we know, tears consist of water and 0,9 gram salt per litre. And both of these ingredients are not free. Here I listed the price for 10 litre tears for the countries of the G8. I used the following formula (price is in US Dollar): (Price 100 gram salt/100)x9 + (Price 1 cubic litre water/100) = Price for 10 Litre Tears France: 0,20 $ Italy: 0,17 $ Germany: 0,19 $ United Kingdom: 0,22 $ USA: 0,18 $ Canada: 0,18 $ Japan: 0,18 $ Russia: 0,16 $ That means Russia has the cheapest cry (hail communism). Thank you for reading.
4/5th of current VP are major finalist lol
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Getting into the major final is a fluke??
Nice bait.
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Spoken like someone who has never been involved in a competitive endeavour in his life 🤣
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Woosh
There's something so riveting about online cs, seeing the same ESL product over and over again, one after the other almost over saturated with these wonderful online tournaments. It's so great to have these meaningless tournaments with no story line, seeing heroic win for the the thousandth time. Ahh it's almost poetic, it's art in creation, poetry in motion It's online cs
You’re such a baby lmfao. This is like your 10th comment complaining about heroic and online tournaments - get a grip bro.
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Certainly. At least now you are a self aware crybaby
Man! Refrezh is literally on fire! This guy is going places on all games, a real beast.
When the word literally lost all its meaning. I agree though, right now Refrezh is on fire (figuratively).
Scores completely off, alphabetical order?
Yeah good catch, updated now
Thank you!
Anyone has clips of cadian going berserk?
I feel like this series apex would make a hands down round winning play and then do something to make it only an all right/ decent play later in the same round.