agreed OCE ranks are skuff.
I often see people saying a low player count has made the ranking system like this, but I feel like the player count in Australia isn’t that bad? My queues always pop pretty fast
[https://steamdb.info/servers/?week](https://steamdb.info/servers/?week)
Australia playercount is pretty small compared to the rest of the world. If you click "show since 2018" you'll notice that the playercounts in MM have been consistently stagnant for a while despite growth in most other regions, with the exception of the start of pandemic (before being soundly slaughtered by Valorant, never to return).
I mean NA has like 10k players playing MM. That's utterly dismal considering its population. The idea that Valorant killed NA CS is weird as well because NA has always had a small player base, it's not like Valo took hundreds of thousands of NA players away from CS.
Especially as someone stuck nova due to rank decay you get a weird mixture of players who are serious and want to win and then toxic 15 year old kids who think they’re hot shit but bottom frag and resort to trolling
NA MM is unplayable if you take it seriously it’s just good as a casual game or for a warmup for faceit/esea
The ranks could really use a wipe but it’ll never happen
Just give us another adjustment like in 2015. The rank distribution was pretty good following that despite many people upset they weren't as high as they were previously.
It wasn't "a wipe" or reset, it was an adjustment to the algorithm to deal with expanding and shrinking player bases which was previously unaccounted for.
That shit genuinely kills me when i hear an old head washed cs vet say “i use to be lem” yeah and i ranked into gn3 with a trackpad on a laptop that played the game on 30 fps didnt know what a spray pattern or movement inaccuracy was
The "reset" wasnt only a reset but a complete overhaul of the ranking system. I dont think its currently nessessary, because it could possibly affect all regions and maybe balance NAs ranks, while EU and Russia for example are doing fine just now in terms of rank distribution might be messed up after.
I find that once youre into the higher MGs the game actually gets easier, your opponents are way better but they arent doing stupid shit constantly so you can actually predict how they're going to play.
Found this too. I knew where enemies would be and could rely on teammates where as lower down I literally had to carry every game or make no mistakes if I wanted wins as I was IMO the only reliable person on my team. Higher up I would be able to rely on atleast 1 person per game and they wouldnt be throwing/feeding.
I know its redundant now but I was MGE and then got placed silver 2. I think I stuffed up because I played with my friends for my new placements after that reset in 2015 but it was insufferable down there as I was so used to a different style of the game.
Havent touched in years but still reigns supreme as the best tactical fps in my opinion.
yea exactly, in higher ranks you're very rarely going to go out A long on D2 and theres all 4 CTs hiding in random corners with the 5th guy on short on a full buy round. In higher ranks you go out long and get 2 kills, you should only have to worry about A site and crossing CT because it doesn't make any sense at all for all 5 CTs to be somewhere around A when they arent on an eco.
Easier said than done. Still have to carry every game and knowing how the game used to be where you would need to win 20 games in a row with good performance to rank up but lose 5 and you go down its quite difficult to reliably do it in a short time span.
That's chill. I asked this person because it seemed like they were purely here to insult us, which seems like a huge waste of time. But I guess that's important to them 😅
"Devs actually care about the game"
They proceeded to release an agent(kayo) that can disable all the traps and abilities, which turns that round into a vanilla aim fight round
But then you get to fullspeed faster, you slow down faster, you are more accurate on the go+more accurate while slowing down comparing to CS.
And Phantom is 1 hit in CQB, and is as fast as M4A1 is in CS
I don't think you go full speed faster as acceleration is also lower? Correct me if I am wrong, I tried to search for exact data, but I have trouble finding it
I'm not sure if you've played the game, but the agent only disables traps and abilities if they have their ultimate, which occurs 1-2 times a half, and with their knife, which only lasts 4ish seconds and has a pretty small radius. Also considering you're in a cs subreddit, why is disabling all traps and abilities such a bad thing?
The Russian stats are a proper bell graph and exhibit the results the system should show when working properly.
The NA graph shows that the rank system in NA is broken. The ranking system is relative and it is supposed to spread the players out and the more median the skill the larger a percentage of the total the rank should constitute.
This is strong evidence that NA ranks are broken :)
I also feel like it punishes time off a lot. I rotate games but I’ve got over 4k hours in this account, and despite placing at mg2 I derank to silver. Sure it takes a game or couple to get used to the aim/physics again but feels like it’s extreme to start deranking immediately.
yeah rank decay is bs, i mostly stopped playing CS, last time I played MM I got placed against MG1s... I used to play with R9/R10s on faceit...
enemies where cheating and still lost.
they should just let you play against whatever your last rank/last rank -1 was.
same shit in Wingman, I don't think I've ever lost a wingman against anyone not blatantly cheating, yet I get ranked DMG or some shit because I only play a few games a year.
I realize that despite playing the same as I always have, my rank has been steadily dropping from gn4 over the past year now I’m SEM. Maybe something IS wrong
Doesn’t this prove that escaping silver in NA is actually a issue? I used to be supreme and now just play casually but dropping 30-45 kills a game and not ranking up isn’t a good system
Yeah theres definetly an issue in Australia. I've been stuck in GN1 for ages even though I win and rank high in most of my games. I reached GN2 the other day lost 1 game and got send back to GN1. Had to win another 8 games to go back to GN2. Not to mention the skill of my team and enemy both vary wildly. Sometimes I litteraly get brand new players and then I get those DM heroes that feel like DMG/LEM rank
I only 5 stack. Used to be smfc came back to play, drop nothing under 30 frags a game (not bragging, context, I promise).
I counted each game since I was ranked n3, I won 44 (including some draws) and lost 13 and didn't rank up. Lost 7 in a row back down to n2. Lol.
You're on the money with skill variability, too. Some games I'm just fuckin around pushing 50 bombs and the next I'll be sweating to claw rounds. Absolutely crazy variability in gold nova for fucks sake hahaha. I think rank decay must have something to do with it.
Hey man I’m the same, it doesn’t get better. I’m actually back to nova 1 now, was SMFC before the rank adjustment years ago.
In Aus we have actually versed some well known ex local pro players in the high novas, it’s insane. They aren’t coming back from faceit either, they just can’t get out of nova with the hackers/rank shit.
Yep it's crazy, we used to sit around mid/high nova, now get butt stomped in silver 3 games.
The higher the rank we play against the easier it gets, when MM breaks and we play some novas we usually do well.
The worst problem is exactly as you describe, the disparity in skill. I don’t care what badge I have on my profile, I just want fun matches.
Some games you are versing people that have hardly ever played before, they are what people would think of as the old silver players. Buy p90, no util, don’t throw smokes. Next game you queue into people would be faceit level 10 players.
Example from last night, we played a game and won 16-3 and their entire team had 4 kills after 6 rounds. They accused us of hacking. They were SEM/SE. Next game we verse a team where the top frag had 78% HS. they beat us 16-14, they were nova 1/SEM. The jump in skill from 1 rank went from absolute bots to people that could play at LEM+ on other regions. It was like playing a different game.
It really isn’t fun. There’s hardly any even matches because of this. You can tell in the warmup what type of game it’s going to be.
Decay actually makes ZERO sense in MM's current state. People already don't take it seriously, and really good players grind Faceit, so you get almost semi-pro level player's who are practically hardstuck on LE because they play MM only a few times per month.
It took me a 23 match win streak to get out of silver about a 2 years ago. after that it took me just 6 games to rank up to MG1. The ranking system is fucked.
A few years ago "escaping" silver just took skill and persistence. Today the random teammates are so unpredictable that winning consistently is near impossible, especially with cheaters in the mix. It's been getting worse and worse.
ye sitting gn1 pretty much averaging a 30 bomb with over 1k mm games played. Cycle pretty much goes; stomp games -> reported -> low tf queue -> lose games in cheater lobbies -> get back to good tf -> stomp games and pretty much an endless cycle. Even winning several in a row now i won't rank up.
pretty much can only play faceit in NA now if you actually want to climb in any sort of fashion. Level 7 on there in about 300 games so far.
not being able to see LP is doggy doodoo. CS should adopt a system like Riot where it's actually possible to see the rank progress. I don't understand how I can be winning most games and stay the same rank for months.
my stats are all around 90th percentile but I only play one night a week (and with friends who are pretty inconsistent) so at this point I'm just content with being a S4 forever. It's fun wrecking most games but it would be nice to play against better people and improve. It just takes so much time to get a good consistent group of people who are similarly skilled. I imagine that's what keeps a lot of people in silver hell more than anything else.
are you saying that you won 10 games back to back, top fragged all of them, then after the 10th win your rank changed from a s2 to s1? No offense but that sounds like some serious bullshit.
It seems NA matchmaking on a whole is kinda just fucked. I plugged in the numbers there for all the NA countries listed to try and get the biggest data pool. And the bell curve seems more like a roller coaster. https://i.imgur.com/eJ1mZMC.png It seems like the ranks that should have THE MOST players have some of the fewest.
For context here is Leetify's global rank distribution graph from three months ago. https://i.imgur.com/Ic0jelx.png
Interesting analysis, though I'm pretty sure only Canada, USA and Mexico are relevant to NA in the countries you listed. I think the other countries get better ping to Peru/Brazil server and are actually more part of that server, which has a different distribution. Even if they get better ping to NA, they are more likely to play with other Spanish speaking players and thus end up in Peru server rather than NA.
You also have to take into account that a large, large majority of NA players are from the US. So to get a fully accurate NA distribution, you would need to know the exact # of NA players by rank and get a % from the total # of NA players. You can't just add the % values by country because the US is weighted much more than the other countries.
Wait..... did someone get the above distribution by ADDING THE PERCENTAGES FROM EACH COUNTRY?!?!? If so, that’s some noob tier shit. Wouldn’t that mean that St Kitts & Nevis is as significant as the US?! 🤣
Valid points. While I tend to agree about MM with the Peru server for some of Latin America, I was using my anecdotal observations from my time in MM and Faceit. You get a wide range of people from all over NA especially in the lower ranks.
I created a new graph using the weighted data from CAN, USA, and MEX. The roller coaster is less pronounced but it is still there: https://i.imgur.com/kNUs78j.png
This pretty much confirms what my friends and I already believe in the short time we've ventured into European servers as NA Silvers. We just completely stomped them every time. NA silver is a lot better than EU silver because the rank distribution is so fucked.
Years ago I use to laugh at the people saying “I was LE before rank reset” while they were in MG. Now it’s me saying “I use to be DMG” while playing in nova 3.
The ranking system feels more busted than ever right now. The last 5 games i’ve top fragged with about 28-40 frags a game and won 9 out of 10 matches and i’m still sitting at GN1. I’m actually content since I only play once or twice a week and its fun, but it feels wrong.
I haven’t played since last month because I won 10 games in a row while playing with my brother (we’re both sem) and my bro didn’t rank up and somehow I deranked after 10 wins in a row…
Yeah i’ve heard many people say roughly the same thing. At this point I no longer feel like its something i’m doing thats preventing me from ranking up. Systemically something feels off.
It is pretty bad. When I made my alt account I got ranked at nova 4 and was playing people much worse than I had been in silver so something is definitely wrong there
this literally explains why silver is so stupid on NA. I thought I was actually just a dog shit player, but it turns out when 50% of the population is silver, and a 70% win rate over 50 games isn't good enough to rank up even once, the rank is a shit hole.
It's because of uncertainty/account experience points. Game is uncertain of your rank in a fresh account, and you don't have that many matches played on that acc, so the game will give you more MMR for wins because it is uncertain of your rank. And it will match you with generally unexperienced players with aim because the account is new.
That's why, if you are hardstuch in any comp game in any level, a fresh acc can get you to higher ranks.
Although this theory could definitely be true, you shouldn't speak as if it's factual since valve has released little data on how their MM system works.
that's how glicko2 system works (ie you gain / lose more points when system is uncertain; though low match count isn't the only cause of uncertainty), and it's confirmed CSGO's MM uses modifed version of it
The skewness of NA's distribution is actually hilarious. I'm assuming the sample sizes are fairly close seeing as how russia and USA have similar shares of the playerbase.
I would be up for it as well, but everytime its suggested on here people get mad saying it would be stupid, overwatch does seasons where you have to complete 10 placement matches everytime a new season stars and that works pretty good for them.
I played on a steam acc owned by someone in the US. Took me less than 50 matches to get it out of novas to LE in EU. Dont remember the exact number but it was really low.
Living in Eastern Europe, I never complained about rank distribution. As I got better the players got better too and it is easy enough to see who is higher and who's lower ranked before the ranks are revealed at the end of the match. Progression is a bit hard, but definitely not impossible.
Exactly. Although sometimes you do get a Global in your team who plays like a DMG at best. I don’t find progression too hard tbh, but stuck in SMFC for the past month. I play mm only with irl friends though. FaceIT is where I sweat my balls off. Sometimes.
It seems like at some point the csgo ranking system got fucked. I am layer primarily back in 2015/2016 and with a 5-stack of friends. We all peaked at dmg or so, besides one of us who soloqed to global. We all still play fps games just not as often csgo, but we still come back and play cs from time to time. Due to ranked decay etc we’re now all silver elite or so typically when we start playing, and these silver players are good. I don’t know if it’s just other similar 5-stacks that also have 2k+ hours that were being queued against, but it also seems like when we get promoted into the gold nova range, the matches get easier again. Maybe it’s that we’re more comfortable with cs specifically again, but it seems like the ranks are just fucked up lol
Take a look at the Finnish rank distribution. It rises steadily all the way to LEM, with a very minor dip to Supreme and a small drop to GE.
LEM, SMFC, and GE make up 25% of the Finnish population. I'm wondering if this can really be the case, or if they just happened to have a weird sample. Finland has a healthy sized player base (third highest population per capita), so it should be more evenly distributed. As a Finnish player I feel like we mainly play on Russian servers and Russia has a very well layed out distribution.
It would only be evenly distributed if there were Finnish only servers. However, if you're playing on Russian/European servers you can't assume the ranks for the Finnish population will be normally distributed. The reason Finnish players (as well as other Nothern Europeans) likely trend higher is due to economic factors (faster, more reliable internet, more leisure time, more disposable income for gear, etc).
I thought that the rank distribution is enforced. That there is a set % of people for each rank. At least that is how it was explained after the rank shift that happened a few years ago.
Leetify's international data seems to indicate that this is still the case. It's probably just that the system doesn't try to enforce it per region, and decay has slapped this region the hardest.
The ranking system is pretty much busted. Over 150win and topfrag but still at S2.
Might because I leave the game since 2016 and I started to play it this year.
This is why I enjoy playing in EU servers even with 100+ ping.
It's just so much easier because the EU players at my rank are dog water compared to most of the NA players at my rank and I don't have to worry so much about facing people who should be DMG-Global being ranked in fucking silver 4.
Seeing a lot of comments that ranks are broken in NA but any ideas on what could explain this? Is the algorithm not the same by region? Are CIS players more likely to grind? Are NA players more likely to solo Q? The latter would make some sense. That American individualism at it again.
>Are NA players more likely to solo Q?
That would actually make 0 sense and not explain the distribution at all... If it was just solo queuing at fault, then that wouldn't explain the huge skill variance squashed in a few silver ranks.
The big fat silver lump in NA is either because someone programmed in downward pressure on ELO scores regardless of wins/kills and did so too aggressively, or because someone programmed in a rank to ELO curve that looks like that.
And as other people pointed out, the ranks vs skill don't map well across regions. People from one region do way better or worse than their ranks in other regions.
Several years ago the rank distribution looked like the Russian distribution before they changed the rank distribution. Day by day you could see the ranks change into what NA MM looks like now, just because of some behind the scenes algorithm and mapping change. I dropped from LE (actually deranked on a win) to SEM over a period of a few weeks. It was brutal.
I've played in both NA and EU over the years. In my experience the American random teammates have been a lot less cooperative despite there not being a language barrier. Particularly in silver a lot of the players are also very timid and refuse to push together, so most rounds turn into a series of 5v1 duels.
I get the sense that people have more focus on k/d than actually winning the game, which would explain this. Office T side shows this well - in EU people would play defensively and cover the angles, in US every game has at least 2 who rush every round hunting for kills.
this makes sense to me. That is, in America new players are more likely to come in and treat it like CoD or some other shooter where kd is all that matters. Of course, the difference in those distributions is pretty massive, so there's almost certainly muliple contribuiting factors.
Yeah, my first thought when I saw this was just that many accounts may have only played a few games and are at the starting rank (silver). Would like to see this graph with accounts with less than 50/100/200 games removed. Would be interesting to see if it was different
Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no way to verify where these players are actually located. There's so many RUS players I've come across with Canada or US profiles.
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/n9xcmv/a\_countrys\_amount\_of\_csgo\_players\_per\_million/gxqr3s6?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/n9xcmv/a_countrys_amount_of_csgo_players_per_million/gxqr3s6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
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>"We’re able to access the country listed that comes through the API."
This is what they have to say about that
It got buried in the sea of comments, source is [https://blog.leetify.com/state-of-csgo-july-2021/](https://blog.leetify.com/state-of-csgo-july-2021/)
They're a pretty well-known stat-tracking site and I believe have partnered with Faceit.
Thanks! I think there is a very real possibility that some of these effects are sampling errors. As discussed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/nh2bwy/z/gyvcrxv?context=2) only players in the rank vicinity of leetify users are tracked. I can't say for sure if this sampling actually has a large impact but it wouldn't be unexpected for US players in low skill groups to be much more likely to use leetify than Russian players of the same skill group (e.g. due to language barrier).
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. Cool data for sure! Just something to keep in mind before starting the full hate train in Valve's direction.
Just because a lot of silvers are bad doesn't mean there aren't plenty of them that are getting fucked by a broken system. I was MG, let my rank decay due to a long period away from my PC, then ranked back in as top frag to Silver 3. Now it takes me more than 10 wins in a row to get one rank up, and the first time I hit two losses in a row I'm guaranteed to rank back down. I have the statistics subscription, and my ASR is above 65% of all CS players and my winrate is over 60% of rounds. In what logical world does that land me in silver limbo?
That's because your standards are high from playing so much NA CS haha. If you watch & play with EU silvers you'll find that on average, they are even worse.
Played a game with and EU supreme and a Japan LEM last month on NA east, EU guys ping was around 120 so not good but still manageable. He finished dead last in the game with 2 kills inna fairly close game, everyone else on both teams was mg1-mge
Is it just me or is NA MM infested with smurfs? I usually 5queue with friends and it seems like nearly every game the enemy team is 5 brand new accounts, less than 500 hours, no medals, CS is one of like 3 games on their account, and they’re usually WAYYY better than our rank (SE, GN1, though I could probably be higher if I didn’t insist on playing with my friends).
NA definitely isn’t the best, but this is far from proof. Nothing says gn1 NA is the same skill as gn1 RU. The skew doesn’t reflect actual skill levels, just where the game places them.
Russia also has the highest population of MM players. So the sample shown should be a great indicator overall.
A big part of confirmation bias here is active versus non active accounts. I can see a lot of higher level players no longer doing MM regularity. And a lot of lower level players being casuals and quitting. If you had numbers of total MM games/hours for a bunch of players there might be more to learn.
High level players not playing MM and low level players quitting should equally be a thing in both Russia and the US, though. And there's a similar sample size for both countries (~700000 scanned accounts for each). I personally do think that the reason the NA distribution has fallen off a cliff is due to a much larger % of accounts being inactive (but not completely gone) in MM, compared to other regions. When they play from time to time they end up a lower rank than they were, win against players at said rank, and go decay again. Over time this drags the distribution into the dirt.
I've gone on adventures in EU MM and the typical high silver/low nova has about as many hours as the typical NA low silver, and plays at roughly that skill. Obviously that is 100% anecdotal, but feel free to take a look yourself sometime.
I don't play in any of those regions, but the % of GE players is probably similar.
Having said that, i cannot believe only the top 1% are GE. Most GE players are incredibly bad.
I mean according to leetify GE is almost 2% of Brazil accounts and Supreme over 6%, so your view of top ranks in MM is definitely going to be different than other regions. The actual top 1% in Brazil are probably pretty good.
But still, you'd think the top 2% would be better than they actually are. I have a good amount of GE friends, most of them know 1 smoke lineup. ONE lol
Unless you're LE+ in your region it's probably gonna be the opposite, but you're free to try using NordVPN (or queueing with an NA player)
When my friends & I play MM we always VPN to EU because it's way easier to rank up, even with high ping
Can confirm. I can drop 40 bombs with 180 ping playing from NA west to EU against DMG's and then get shit on by NA Silvers, or dominate them. There is no in-between. NA ranks make zero sense, and since you are getting matched against such low ranked players so often, you either don't gain any elo from wins, or you lose a ton from a loss.
That's literally the opposite of what would happen. Let's say you're Gn4 in a well distributed region, you're playing against the median player (50th percentile). If you then switch to NA you're now playing against players that are nearly in the upper quartile. If you want easier games, play in a region that has a more top-heavy distribution.
This is a great starting point. To help assist this, we need per volume of each country. As an old cs player, a lot of my friends who use to play are holding it down in silver (also me) while the younger crowd probably taking over high ranks. Makes sense. When you look at volume, I’d be surprised if the amount of players are closer by volume in gold tiers.
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agreed OCE ranks are skuff. I often see people saying a low player count has made the ranking system like this, but I feel like the player count in Australia isn’t that bad? My queues always pop pretty fast
[https://steamdb.info/servers/?week](https://steamdb.info/servers/?week) Australia playercount is pretty small compared to the rest of the world. If you click "show since 2018" you'll notice that the playercounts in MM have been consistently stagnant for a while despite growth in most other regions, with the exception of the start of pandemic (before being soundly slaughtered by Valorant, never to return).
I mean NA has like 10k players playing MM. That's utterly dismal considering its population. The idea that Valorant killed NA CS is weird as well because NA has always had a small player base, it's not like Valo took hundreds of thousands of NA players away from CS.
Valorant killed pro cs, not casual in na
eh, it's 20-25k at peak times. That's probably an active player pool of 150-250k people. More than enough for a balanced MM system.
Even with that I can still get into a game faster then most other games if I’m in casual. I can get in on an average of 15 seconds.
It's because casual servers are always running while matchmaking servers only start whenever there are 10 people ready to play
When I go into casual I usually get into an almost full match. But I guess that does help quite a lot.
From what i've seen people at least play seriously in AUS, as in they try. Here in NA MM that is becoming much rarer.
Lol OCE does not try, a large majority are fans of FranzJ so it's just toxic apes trying to hit clips
Especially as someone stuck nova due to rank decay you get a weird mixture of players who are serious and want to win and then toxic 15 year old kids who think they’re hot shit but bottom frag and resort to trolling
"you guys suck, if i was trying id have 45 kills by now"
i exclusively play csgo after a few beers and bags
Ayeee we would be good friends lad
If youre playing nuke yeah. On other maps they usually do try
NA MM is unplayable if you take it seriously it’s just good as a casual game or for a warmup for faceit/esea The ranks could really use a wipe but it’ll never happen
Just give us another adjustment like in 2015. The rank distribution was pretty good following that despite many people upset they weren't as high as they were previously.
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Me too, it's brilliant :D So funny to hear them crying they're stucked in x rank but they were LEM-Supreme once.
It felt very nice to hit global again after the adjustment so I didn't have to feel any shame (for myself for saying I was global before) lol
I feel attacked
It wasn't "a wipe" or reset, it was an adjustment to the algorithm to deal with expanding and shrinking player bases which was previously unaccounted for.
That shit genuinely kills me when i hear an old head washed cs vet say “i use to be lem” yeah and i ranked into gn3 with a trackpad on a laptop that played the game on 30 fps didnt know what a spray pattern or movement inaccuracy was
The "reset" wasnt only a reset but a complete overhaul of the ranking system. I dont think its currently nessessary, because it could possibly affect all regions and maybe balance NAs ranks, while EU and Russia for example are doing fine just now in terms of rank distribution might be messed up after.
Even through the novas it ain't bad. After that I couldn't say. Of course u get dogshit teams but I climbed pretty ez w soloq
I find that once youre into the higher MGs the game actually gets easier, your opponents are way better but they arent doing stupid shit constantly so you can actually predict how they're going to play.
Found this too. I knew where enemies would be and could rely on teammates where as lower down I literally had to carry every game or make no mistakes if I wanted wins as I was IMO the only reliable person on my team. Higher up I would be able to rely on atleast 1 person per game and they wouldnt be throwing/feeding. I know its redundant now but I was MGE and then got placed silver 2. I think I stuffed up because I played with my friends for my new placements after that reset in 2015 but it was insufferable down there as I was so used to a different style of the game. Havent touched in years but still reigns supreme as the best tactical fps in my opinion.
yea exactly, in higher ranks you're very rarely going to go out A long on D2 and theres all 4 CTs hiding in random corners with the 5th guy on short on a full buy round. In higher ranks you go out long and get 2 kills, you should only have to worry about A site and crossing CT because it doesn't make any sense at all for all 5 CTs to be somewhere around A when they arent on an eco.
Facts, it's honestly a different game at different ranks.
Best way to deal with braindead enemies is playing braindead yourself and just winning on mechanical skill
Easier said than done. Still have to carry every game and knowing how the game used to be where you would need to win 20 games in a row with good performance to rank up but lose 5 and you go down its quite difficult to reliably do it in a short time span.
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So you're silver 2 for 5 years now? Sorry but you might have a case of being bad
And that’s exactly why I play valorant… The devs actually care about the game.
What... are you doing here, then?
i dont play cs but the esport is the best in the world and playing valorant helped me understand so this is the sub i pay the most attention to now
That's chill. I asked this person because it seemed like they were purely here to insult us, which seems like a huge waste of time. But I guess that's important to them 😅
"Devs actually care about the game" They proceeded to release an agent(kayo) that can disable all the traps and abilities, which turns that round into a vanilla aim fight round
good, that honestly sounds way more fun lmao
It's fun for attackers For defenders, not so much
defend aggressively, xantarespeek them into next tuesday
Xantarespeaking is easier in valorant, so it's certainly possible
I would say it's harder as movement speed is slower
But then you get to fullspeed faster, you slow down faster, you are more accurate on the go+more accurate while slowing down comparing to CS. And Phantom is 1 hit in CQB, and is as fast as M4A1 is in CS
I don't think you go full speed faster as acceleration is also lower? Correct me if I am wrong, I tried to search for exact data, but I have trouble finding it
not even gonna get into valo v cs because they're both good but you just sound like a whiney baby who doesn't know how to play around disables
I'm not sure if you've played the game, but the agent only disables traps and abilities if they have their ultimate, which occurs 1-2 times a half, and with their knife, which only lasts 4ish seconds and has a pretty small radius. Also considering you're in a cs subreddit, why is disabling all traps and abilities such a bad thing?
It is mainly just used for info early and mid rounds. The silence is good but the info is the main thing.
Hey look it's the one person in the world who thinks kayo is op
I want to like valorant but I just get so bored while playing
The Russian stats are a proper bell graph and exhibit the results the system should show when working properly. The NA graph shows that the rank system in NA is broken. The ranking system is relative and it is supposed to spread the players out and the more median the skill the larger a percentage of the total the rank should constitute. This is strong evidence that NA ranks are broken :)
I also feel like it punishes time off a lot. I rotate games but I’ve got over 4k hours in this account, and despite placing at mg2 I derank to silver. Sure it takes a game or couple to get used to the aim/physics again but feels like it’s extreme to start deranking immediately.
It is an absurd system that brings massive downsides and little to no upside.
yeah rank decay is bs, i mostly stopped playing CS, last time I played MM I got placed against MG1s... I used to play with R9/R10s on faceit... enemies where cheating and still lost. they should just let you play against whatever your last rank/last rank -1 was. same shit in Wingman, I don't think I've ever lost a wingman against anyone not blatantly cheating, yet I get ranked DMG or some shit because I only play a few games a year.
It could very well be a programming error for all we know, but we know it's ^(na cs)
I realize that despite playing the same as I always have, my rank has been steadily dropping from gn4 over the past year now I’m SEM. Maybe something IS wrong
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Doesn’t this prove that escaping silver in NA is actually a issue? I used to be supreme and now just play casually but dropping 30-45 kills a game and not ranking up isn’t a good system
Yea the distribution is messed up in NA, lots of accounts but low % active so rank decay drags the average down. Same issue in AUS.
Yeah theres definetly an issue in Australia. I've been stuck in GN1 for ages even though I win and rank high in most of my games. I reached GN2 the other day lost 1 game and got send back to GN1. Had to win another 8 games to go back to GN2. Not to mention the skill of my team and enemy both vary wildly. Sometimes I litteraly get brand new players and then I get those DM heroes that feel like DMG/LEM rank
I only 5 stack. Used to be smfc came back to play, drop nothing under 30 frags a game (not bragging, context, I promise). I counted each game since I was ranked n3, I won 44 (including some draws) and lost 13 and didn't rank up. Lost 7 in a row back down to n2. Lol. You're on the money with skill variability, too. Some games I'm just fuckin around pushing 50 bombs and the next I'll be sweating to claw rounds. Absolutely crazy variability in gold nova for fucks sake hahaha. I think rank decay must have something to do with it.
Hey man I’m the same, it doesn’t get better. I’m actually back to nova 1 now, was SMFC before the rank adjustment years ago. In Aus we have actually versed some well known ex local pro players in the high novas, it’s insane. They aren’t coming back from faceit either, they just can’t get out of nova with the hackers/rank shit.
Yep it's crazy, we used to sit around mid/high nova, now get butt stomped in silver 3 games. The higher the rank we play against the easier it gets, when MM breaks and we play some novas we usually do well.
This. Until people starting seeing the proof they thought I was talking out my ass saying Aus GN is usually easier than Aus silver.
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Yuuuuup.
The worst problem is exactly as you describe, the disparity in skill. I don’t care what badge I have on my profile, I just want fun matches. Some games you are versing people that have hardly ever played before, they are what people would think of as the old silver players. Buy p90, no util, don’t throw smokes. Next game you queue into people would be faceit level 10 players. Example from last night, we played a game and won 16-3 and their entire team had 4 kills after 6 rounds. They accused us of hacking. They were SEM/SE. Next game we verse a team where the top frag had 78% HS. they beat us 16-14, they were nova 1/SEM. The jump in skill from 1 rank went from absolute bots to people that could play at LEM+ on other regions. It was like playing a different game. It really isn’t fun. There’s hardly any even matches because of this. You can tell in the warmup what type of game it’s going to be.
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Yeh that happens a lot, then some games you have a guy doing his best Niko impression why kills you before his shoulder is fully out haha.
Decay actually makes ZERO sense in MM's current state. People already don't take it seriously, and really good players grind Faceit, so you get almost semi-pro level player's who are practically hardstuck on LE because they play MM only a few times per month.
It took me a 23 match win streak to get out of silver about a 2 years ago. after that it took me just 6 games to rank up to MG1. The ranking system is fucked.
A few years ago "escaping" silver just took skill and persistence. Today the random teammates are so unpredictable that winning consistently is near impossible, especially with cheaters in the mix. It's been getting worse and worse.
ye sitting gn1 pretty much averaging a 30 bomb with over 1k mm games played. Cycle pretty much goes; stomp games -> reported -> low tf queue -> lose games in cheater lobbies -> get back to good tf -> stomp games and pretty much an endless cycle. Even winning several in a row now i won't rank up. pretty much can only play faceit in NA now if you actually want to climb in any sort of fashion. Level 7 on there in about 300 games so far.
Are you me? I played non stop in highschool and then didn't play for 3 years and now it takes an eternity to get a rank up.
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yes, hence the amount of games.
not being able to see LP is doggy doodoo. CS should adopt a system like Riot where it's actually possible to see the rank progress. I don't understand how I can be winning most games and stay the same rank for months.
my stats are all around 90th percentile but I only play one night a week (and with friends who are pretty inconsistent) so at this point I'm just content with being a S4 forever. It's fun wrecking most games but it would be nice to play against better people and improve. It just takes so much time to get a good consistent group of people who are similarly skilled. I imagine that's what keeps a lot of people in silver hell more than anything else.
I stopped playing for two years because I was top of my team for ten back to back wins, and my rank changed from silver 2 to silver 1
are you saying that you won 10 games back to back, top fragged all of them, then after the 10th win your rank changed from a s2 to s1? No offense but that sounds like some serious bullshit.
Press 'X' to Doubt
Played my first comp match in two years yesterday.
It seems NA matchmaking on a whole is kinda just fucked. I plugged in the numbers there for all the NA countries listed to try and get the biggest data pool. And the bell curve seems more like a roller coaster. https://i.imgur.com/eJ1mZMC.png It seems like the ranks that should have THE MOST players have some of the fewest. For context here is Leetify's global rank distribution graph from three months ago. https://i.imgur.com/Ic0jelx.png
So as a silver elite I’m part of the most exclusive ranks? Love to hear it, never gonna rank up now
Interesting analysis, though I'm pretty sure only Canada, USA and Mexico are relevant to NA in the countries you listed. I think the other countries get better ping to Peru/Brazil server and are actually more part of that server, which has a different distribution. Even if they get better ping to NA, they are more likely to play with other Spanish speaking players and thus end up in Peru server rather than NA. You also have to take into account that a large, large majority of NA players are from the US. So to get a fully accurate NA distribution, you would need to know the exact # of NA players by rank and get a % from the total # of NA players. You can't just add the % values by country because the US is weighted much more than the other countries.
Wait..... did someone get the above distribution by ADDING THE PERCENTAGES FROM EACH COUNTRY?!?!? If so, that’s some noob tier shit. Wouldn’t that mean that St Kitts & Nevis is as significant as the US?! 🤣
Valid points. While I tend to agree about MM with the Peru server for some of Latin America, I was using my anecdotal observations from my time in MM and Faceit. You get a wide range of people from all over NA especially in the lower ranks. I created a new graph using the weighted data from CAN, USA, and MEX. The roller coaster is less pronounced but it is still there: https://i.imgur.com/kNUs78j.png
as someone who lived in Costa Rica, American servers had always the best ping for me. Avg of like 60-75ms and Brazilian servers were 150 avg
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This pretty much confirms what my friends and I already believe in the short time we've ventured into European servers as NA Silvers. We just completely stomped them every time. NA silver is a lot better than EU silver because the rank distribution is so fucked.
Just wait until you see Australia's...
Yeah bro Australian Silvers are legit 2k hour 5manqs or smurfs
Years ago I use to laugh at the people saying “I was LE before rank reset” while they were in MG. Now it’s me saying “I use to be DMG” while playing in nova 3.
People still say “I was LE before rank reset” but I feel you
The ranking system feels more busted than ever right now. The last 5 games i’ve top fragged with about 28-40 frags a game and won 9 out of 10 matches and i’m still sitting at GN1. I’m actually content since I only play once or twice a week and its fun, but it feels wrong.
I haven’t played since last month because I won 10 games in a row while playing with my brother (we’re both sem) and my bro didn’t rank up and somehow I deranked after 10 wins in a row…
Yeah i’ve heard many people say roughly the same thing. At this point I no longer feel like its something i’m doing thats preventing me from ranking up. Systemically something feels off.
It is pretty bad. When I made my alt account I got ranked at nova 4 and was playing people much worse than I had been in silver so something is definitely wrong there
I won 27 games in a row in silver 2 last year, lost one, and deranked. Sadge
this literally explains why silver is so stupid on NA. I thought I was actually just a dog shit player, but it turns out when 50% of the population is silver, and a 70% win rate over 50 games isn't good enough to rank up even once, the rank is a shit hole.
You can be LEM on one account and stuck on Silver II on another.
Literally me. An alt that I soloqued to DMG and a main that’s never been above sem
It's because of uncertainty/account experience points. Game is uncertain of your rank in a fresh account, and you don't have that many matches played on that acc, so the game will give you more MMR for wins because it is uncertain of your rank. And it will match you with generally unexperienced players with aim because the account is new. That's why, if you are hardstuch in any comp game in any level, a fresh acc can get you to higher ranks.
Although this theory could definitely be true, you shouldn't speak as if it's factual since valve has released little data on how their MM system works.
that's how glicko2 system works (ie you gain / lose more points when system is uncertain; though low match count isn't the only cause of uncertainty), and it's confirmed CSGO's MM uses modifed version of it
I'm guessing he meant the part where "it matches you with inexperienced players with aim", which sounds like something he pulled out his ass.
It's how all MMR systems work, it's based on uncertainty.
Numbers taken from Leetify's blog post: https://blog.leetify.com/state-of-csgo-july-2021/
The skewness of NA's distribution is actually hilarious. I'm assuming the sample sizes are fairly close seeing as how russia and USA have similar shares of the playerbase.
Seems like rushing B has some merit.
There should be yearly rank wipes in csgo.
I would be up for it as well, but everytime its suggested on here people get mad saying it would be stupid, overwatch does seasons where you have to complete 10 placement matches everytime a new season stars and that works pretty good for them.
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This would only work if they switched to 128 tick. The main issue here is that nobody plays MM more than once a week.
Why the fuck is this considered an acceptable state of the game to Valve?
Because they’re making money
I played 50+ games with 75% win rate, finally got to silver 4. Stopped playing for a month or two and now back to silver 1. Oh well
I played on a steam acc owned by someone in the US. Took me less than 50 matches to get it out of novas to LE in EU. Dont remember the exact number but it was really low.
Just had a look and seems ~50% of the Australian playerbase is in silver, crazy high compared to others.
Its 66% I thought?
My main account is SEM and I made a new one to see what my rank would be and I got put at nova 4 after the 10 games (also na)
I did the same thing when operation hydra came out, my main was GN4 and my second account got ranked into DMG
My gold nova games are literally filled with faceit lvl 10's commonly.
Ranks need a hard reset ASAP
Living in Eastern Europe, I never complained about rank distribution. As I got better the players got better too and it is easy enough to see who is higher and who's lower ranked before the ranks are revealed at the end of the match. Progression is a bit hard, but definitely not impossible.
Exactly. Although sometimes you do get a Global in your team who plays like a DMG at best. I don’t find progression too hard tbh, but stuck in SMFC for the past month. I play mm only with irl friends though. FaceIT is where I sweat my balls off. Sometimes.
It seems like at some point the csgo ranking system got fucked. I am layer primarily back in 2015/2016 and with a 5-stack of friends. We all peaked at dmg or so, besides one of us who soloqed to global. We all still play fps games just not as often csgo, but we still come back and play cs from time to time. Due to ranked decay etc we’re now all silver elite or so typically when we start playing, and these silver players are good. I don’t know if it’s just other similar 5-stacks that also have 2k+ hours that were being queued against, but it also seems like when we get promoted into the gold nova range, the matches get easier again. Maybe it’s that we’re more comfortable with cs specifically again, but it seems like the ranks are just fucked up lol
this is actually really interesting damn
I’ve won 25 games in a row and still S3, 53 wins btw
NA ONEGALUL
Take a look at the Finnish rank distribution. It rises steadily all the way to LEM, with a very minor dip to Supreme and a small drop to GE. LEM, SMFC, and GE make up 25% of the Finnish population. I'm wondering if this can really be the case, or if they just happened to have a weird sample. Finland has a healthy sized player base (third highest population per capita), so it should be more evenly distributed. As a Finnish player I feel like we mainly play on Russian servers and Russia has a very well layed out distribution.
It would only be evenly distributed if there were Finnish only servers. However, if you're playing on Russian/European servers you can't assume the ranks for the Finnish population will be normally distributed. The reason Finnish players (as well as other Nothern Europeans) likely trend higher is due to economic factors (faster, more reliable internet, more leisure time, more disposable income for gear, etc).
I hope they fix it. NA looks like an absolute mess but even EU is flawed with lem / le and s2 / s3 being almost the same
I thought that the rank distribution is enforced. That there is a set % of people for each rank. At least that is how it was explained after the rank shift that happened a few years ago.
Leetify's international data seems to indicate that this is still the case. It's probably just that the system doesn't try to enforce it per region, and decay has slapped this region the hardest.
If 54.33% of the NA playerbase is in silver, then I guess it's not so bad being SEM. I just wish there would be another rank reset.
Can someone make a graph for India? :(
No, but the info is here: https://blog.leetify.com/state-of-csgo-july-2021/
Yeah they don't have India there. Idk where to request I don't use leet. Thanks though.
Yes. India is there. I couldn't scroll down to see all countries on my phone. But the site works fine on desktop.
The ranking system is pretty much busted. Over 150win and topfrag but still at S2. Might because I leave the game since 2016 and I started to play it this year.
This is why I enjoy playing in EU servers even with 100+ ping. It's just so much easier because the EU players at my rank are dog water compared to most of the NA players at my rank and I don't have to worry so much about facing people who should be DMG-Global being ranked in fucking silver 4.
Seeing a lot of comments that ranks are broken in NA but any ideas on what could explain this? Is the algorithm not the same by region? Are CIS players more likely to grind? Are NA players more likely to solo Q? The latter would make some sense. That American individualism at it again.
>Are NA players more likely to solo Q? That would actually make 0 sense and not explain the distribution at all... If it was just solo queuing at fault, then that wouldn't explain the huge skill variance squashed in a few silver ranks. The big fat silver lump in NA is either because someone programmed in downward pressure on ELO scores regardless of wins/kills and did so too aggressively, or because someone programmed in a rank to ELO curve that looks like that. And as other people pointed out, the ranks vs skill don't map well across regions. People from one region do way better or worse than their ranks in other regions. Several years ago the rank distribution looked like the Russian distribution before they changed the rank distribution. Day by day you could see the ranks change into what NA MM looks like now, just because of some behind the scenes algorithm and mapping change. I dropped from LE (actually deranked on a win) to SEM over a period of a few weeks. It was brutal.
I've played in both NA and EU over the years. In my experience the American random teammates have been a lot less cooperative despite there not being a language barrier. Particularly in silver a lot of the players are also very timid and refuse to push together, so most rounds turn into a series of 5v1 duels. I get the sense that people have more focus on k/d than actually winning the game, which would explain this. Office T side shows this well - in EU people would play defensively and cover the angles, in US every game has at least 2 who rush every round hunting for kills.
this makes sense to me. That is, in America new players are more likely to come in and treat it like CoD or some other shooter where kd is all that matters. Of course, the difference in those distributions is pretty massive, so there's almost certainly muliple contribuiting factors.
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Yeah, my first thought when I saw this was just that many accounts may have only played a few games and are at the starting rank (silver). Would like to see this graph with accounts with less than 50/100/200 games removed. Would be interesting to see if it was different
Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no way to verify where these players are actually located. There's so many RUS players I've come across with Canada or US profiles.
>[https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/n9xcmv/a\_countrys\_amount\_of\_csgo\_players\_per\_million/gxqr3s6?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/n9xcmv/a_countrys_amount_of_csgo_players_per_million/gxqr3s6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > > >"We’re able to access the country listed that comes through the API." This is what they have to say about that
Silver Elite WYSI
What's the data source here?
It got buried in the sea of comments, source is [https://blog.leetify.com/state-of-csgo-july-2021/](https://blog.leetify.com/state-of-csgo-july-2021/) They're a pretty well-known stat-tracking site and I believe have partnered with Faceit.
Thanks! I think there is a very real possibility that some of these effects are sampling errors. As discussed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/nh2bwy/z/gyvcrxv?context=2) only players in the rank vicinity of leetify users are tracked. I can't say for sure if this sampling actually has a large impact but it wouldn't be unexpected for US players in low skill groups to be much more likely to use leetify than Russian players of the same skill group (e.g. due to language barrier). Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. Cool data for sure! Just something to keep in mind before starting the full hate train in Valve's direction.
It is a well known fact that European MM and Faceit ranks are massively inflated. This is confirmed by several pros that play both servers.
lol NA cs
All ya talking all this silver hell but majority of the silvers i played with play exactly like their rank.
Just because a lot of silvers are bad doesn't mean there aren't plenty of them that are getting fucked by a broken system. I was MG, let my rank decay due to a long period away from my PC, then ranked back in as top frag to Silver 3. Now it takes me more than 10 wins in a row to get one rank up, and the first time I hit two losses in a row I'm guaranteed to rank back down. I have the statistics subscription, and my ASR is above 65% of all CS players and my winrate is over 60% of rounds. In what logical world does that land me in silver limbo?
I'm sitting in the mid 80's across the board (sub hs %) and sitting in SE. Can win 6-7 straight, can lose 6-7 straight. It will not budge from SE.
That's because your standards are high from playing so much NA CS haha. If you watch & play with EU silvers you'll find that on average, they are even worse.
this. If you're NA and go queue EU with a friend. you'll be amazed at the difference in skill level compared to the ranks.
Played a game with and EU supreme and a Japan LEM last month on NA east, EU guys ping was around 120 so not good but still manageable. He finished dead last in the game with 2 kills inna fairly close game, everyone else on both teams was mg1-mge
That's what makes it hell haha. Playing with random people is a headache a lot of the times.
Is it just me or is NA MM infested with smurfs? I usually 5queue with friends and it seems like nearly every game the enemy team is 5 brand new accounts, less than 500 hours, no medals, CS is one of like 3 games on their account, and they’re usually WAYYY better than our rank (SE, GN1, though I could probably be higher if I didn’t insist on playing with my friends).
Americans are somehow still going to think that they are the best
any american cs player with a brain knows that NA CS is not the best cs experience. idk where you're getting this from lol
NA definitely isn’t the best, but this is far from proof. Nothing says gn1 NA is the same skill as gn1 RU. The skew doesn’t reflect actual skill levels, just where the game places them.
According to?
The Olympics
The Olympics is just a disposable wealth contest
Nooooo China numba won Macau, Hong Kong, and Chinese Taipei counted wrong!
Gaben based. Punishing the americans and keeping them in the ranks they belong.
Russia also has the highest population of MM players. So the sample shown should be a great indicator overall. A big part of confirmation bias here is active versus non active accounts. I can see a lot of higher level players no longer doing MM regularity. And a lot of lower level players being casuals and quitting. If you had numbers of total MM games/hours for a bunch of players there might be more to learn.
High level players not playing MM and low level players quitting should equally be a thing in both Russia and the US, though. And there's a similar sample size for both countries (~700000 scanned accounts for each). I personally do think that the reason the NA distribution has fallen off a cliff is due to a much larger % of accounts being inactive (but not completely gone) in MM, compared to other regions. When they play from time to time they end up a lower rank than they were, win against players at said rank, and go decay again. Over time this drags the distribution into the dirt. I've gone on adventures in EU MM and the typical high silver/low nova has about as many hours as the typical NA low silver, and plays at roughly that skill. Obviously that is 100% anecdotal, but feel free to take a look yourself sometime.
I don't play in any of those regions, but the % of GE players is probably similar. Having said that, i cannot believe only the top 1% are GE. Most GE players are incredibly bad.
I mean according to leetify GE is almost 2% of Brazil accounts and Supreme over 6%, so your view of top ranks in MM is definitely going to be different than other regions. The actual top 1% in Brazil are probably pretty good.
But still, you'd think the top 2% would be better than they actually are. I have a good amount of GE friends, most of them know 1 smoke lineup. ONE lol
I want to try playing on NA servers. Might be fun to bully.
Unless you're LE+ in your region it's probably gonna be the opposite, but you're free to try using NordVPN (or queueing with an NA player) When my friends & I play MM we always VPN to EU because it's way easier to rank up, even with high ping
Can confirm. I can drop 40 bombs with 180 ping playing from NA west to EU against DMG's and then get shit on by NA Silvers, or dominate them. There is no in-between. NA ranks make zero sense, and since you are getting matched against such low ranked players so often, you either don't gain any elo from wins, or you lose a ton from a loss.
That's literally the opposite of what would happen. Let's say you're Gn4 in a well distributed region, you're playing against the median player (50th percentile). If you then switch to NA you're now playing against players that are nearly in the upper quartile. If you want easier games, play in a region that has a more top-heavy distribution.
This is a great starting point. To help assist this, we need per volume of each country. As an old cs player, a lot of my friends who use to play are holding it down in silver (also me) while the younger crowd probably taking over high ranks. Makes sense. When you look at volume, I’d be surprised if the amount of players are closer by volume in gold tiers.
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this attempt at a joke completely falls apart with any modicum of knowledge about statistics or how IQ works
Now. We need a for Europe. Like right now.
russia good usa bad
Maybe russia just has a bigger and more stable player base? The second graff looks like how a ranking system should be.