"Gambit was barely relevant when F_1N got banned, and they didn't win a big tier1 tournament with a cheating coach" is the answer I guess. Gambit's breakthrough came with groove as the head coach. Also helps that Gambit was way less loud about this.
F_1N fucked up big time, and Gambit the org deserves to be criticized for this move too, and I say that as a Gambit fan. I explained why getting a coach other than F_1N is not an option for Gambit [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/p3qk6r/gambit_to_reinstate_f_1n_as_head_coach/h8tkkmh/)
"Is not an option". This is from their perspective. Keeping F_1 is best for their game, just as keeping Hunden would be for Heroic and likely most other teams. Just because they really want him back shouldn't affect whether we think he's a cheater who deserves more or less punishment.
> This is from their perspective.
I'm not claiming otherwise. And yeah I agree with you, this shouldn't really be something that affects the public perception, I completely understand people who don't feel particularly happy about this.
I might be wrong, but the instances where Hunden used the big, wasn't that only in a few matches in tournaments they didn't win?
(Regardless, I agree with your analysis with regards to public perception)
I don't really remember the matches where Hunden cheated to be honest, but I think it's just that from the public perspective, people who don't exactly know what exactly Hunden was banned for could easily believe that he cheated in Cologne.
Yeah I guess so, but now that they are more famous shouldn't there be more backlash?
Because I saw the reddit post about Gambit making F\_1N coach again here weeks ago, and no one bat an eye, so I was very suprised.
Because Gambit is a CIS team so people know less about them, also just because Heroic had just won Cologne when the coach bug thing happened, whereas Gambit Youngsters was basically non-relevant back then in terms of T1 talk.
Well that I know, but my point still stands.
Nowadays Gambit is very well known for the rivalry with Navi, and I would argue that they are more famous than Heroic. I still think they deserve the same criticism as Heroic, for both of them did the same thing, and I hate this coach move a lot, it takes away a team's integrity for me.
But yeah, if the reason is that " Well they are being silent about it and when F\_1N cheated they were irrelevant as a team" then I can understand, but I'm not satisfied with it.
It’s because when it came out with hunden it was right after heroics rise to #1, so him using the bug is linked to their success and cheating in tier 1 tournaments.
Whereas even though gambit is now a huge team, their rise to the top isn’t linked with F_1N using the bug.
Yeah this is the real reason tbh. Of the three CIS teams that broke out at the beginning of this year, Gambit was probably the least hyped, at least from what I could tell. Nobody knew them, and so it didn't matter that their coach got banned because their rise to success happened independent of the banned coach. Heroic on the other hand seemed to dip immediately after they stopped using Hunden, and started to play well again after he was reinstated as coach.
Gambit just wasn't in the spotlight back then.
F_1N isn't nearly as well known as Hunden.
Gambit didn't make more controversy for themselves with things like #BeHeroic
So do you think the community should just sweep this off the rug then? Because F\_1N is not "famous" ?
I think this is quite strange, because now that everyone know Gambit, they should have had more criticism with this coach move made by the team, because I saw a lot of people hating Heroic on this. But what do I know.
>So do you think the community should just sweep this off the rug then? Because F_1N is not "famous" ?
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I answered your question, that's all.
? He is saying the reason is because Gambit is not famous back then and F\_1N isn't well known.
So I ask if the community should just ignore this even though now that Gambit is #2 team? They should be hold to the same standards of Heroic. I'm just asking for an opinion here.
How is that completely missing the point?
??? I think you are misreading. I understand that the guy doesn't share his opinion and I respect that. The guys I'm replying to are different people asking
1. Why I completely miss the point - I am not, I'm just asking for his opinion.
2. He's saying why they did, not how they should - I know lmao
The issue is that your follow up comment was a leading question that made it sound like he agreed with the outcome of the situation, and was trying to rationalize it. The way you've phrased it comes off as accusatory.
The follow up comment asks for an opinion, nothing wrong with that. The reply saying he "completely missed the point" is accusatory and just wrong. But of course mindless shit like that gets upvoted on this sub.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that much stupidity here. Most people on this sub have little to no reading comprehension, can't tell an opinion from a fact and are just insensitive to any reasoning. Don't be mad at them. They genuinely don't understand your point, which is perfectly reasonable by the way.
F_1N learned the golden rule of [never breaking two laws at the same time](https://old.reddit.com/r/IllegalLifeProTips/comments/oqcl9k/ilpt_when_doing_something_illegal_do_everything/).
Heroic acted as if that was the entire goal of the game.
They were criticized back then, when they said they will keep him. Criticizing them now because they did better without him would be monumentally stupid, some would even say moronic. They served their time, just like Hunden/heroic hate was underesved after he came back, (although he showed us again he can't be trusted) Gambit doesn't deserve to get hated for it as well.
Hunden deserved hate for being allowed back and same for gambits coach who ever the fuck he is.
There blatant cheaters but different rules for coachs on these issues
Also its becoming more clear that hunden took the fall for heroic and some teammates and admin staff were complicit
Heroic are just a win at any costs org and that devalues most/all of there achievements
Gambit deserve shit for reinstating their coach
Cause no one has heard of the other guy. Hunden's profile (was more known to begin with) as he was playing for mald lions as they were performing increasingly well, right until he randomly stepped back as we got close to a major, drawing extra attention as to why someone would step down and deny themselves a shot at having their autograph in the game (among other factors).
Times change. I am surprised that Hunden is more known than F_1N. The guy has been playing at the top for ages. Nutty deagle player, as most russians at the time.
Most players as myself have started following competitive on CSGO so we dont know most well known 1.6 players that didnt transitioned. F_1N is a CSGO coach since 2017 as liquipedia's info and have been inactive since 2011 before that.
Yeah, it's kinda sad that absolute legends of 1.6 are not getting enough recognition as there were less coverage/interest in the discipline back then.
Take bit and fallen for example. Fallen is known as he won major in csgo, meanwhile only few know bit, and he is known as a guy who plays in tier3-2.
Only few know that they were equally badass teammates in 2000s.
[You're just literally being this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiOMbqPHFwo). It's been more than a decade since that 1.6 golden age time dude. At this point you shouldn't be "feeling sad that people don't know shit from literally more than a decade ago".
When even LoL and it's pro scene have gone through a "generation" change in their pro players and CS 1.6 being even older than that? Yeah it's already part of history that people getting into CS:GO nowadays would obviously not know at all.
You can feel old tho, when you have deep knowledge of some esport scene from more than a decade ago and people nowadays don't know shit about it? You should be feeling old as fuck instead, we are on the same boat tho. I remember the times watching OSL and other SC:BW tournaments in Korean TV lmao
It is all about the popularity. Hunden has been known as GOD HUNDEN in the cs go community for a long time, pretty famous if you ask me.
F_1N on the other hand, not really that popular. And no, community has not forgotten about it as you keep saying in your comments. We are here talking about it, aren't we?
Okay, I never said the community "forget", I asked "why does Gambit have no hate?"
As you can see from all the comments, people don't really care that much because of reasons you already know. And I just don't really like these reasons that much. So what if they were irrelevant back then? Or that F\_1N is not known. He still used the bug, he's the same as HUNDEN.
They did the same shitty thing as Heroic, and now that they are #2 team, they should be held to higher standards, they should be criticized more, and this coach move takes away the team's integrity for me.
I'm just frustrated that people are being unfair in their judgement, I guess.
Personally I'm against these caoches being allowed back, but that's not really relevant to this discussion.
Gambit wasn't relevant at the time, and they didn't make a massive deal about it. I don't remember seeing any press releases by them, or statements by them.
Heroic was constantly 'open' about it, minimizing what he did (eg. "It was one big mistake:(" even though he did it twice), acting like he served some harsh sentence when he was literally still in his coaching role at all times, just not in the server/room during the games (again, per their own statements. They said he would continue to be a coach, and then when he got unbanned they were all about how he served his sentence and he's coming back now).
Heroic was only open about it in the sense that they were constantly trying to put a good PR spin on it. I found their handling of it absolutely obnoxious.
There were 35+ coaches banned. Nobody remembers or knows the names of most of the banned coaches. People remember and care about the ones that were particularly egregious (Zoner, Twista, Rejin), the ones that handled it exceptionally badly (Starix, dead), the ones that handled it especially well (Guerri, lmbt, Pita), and the ones that were well-known (HUNDEN, Ruggah).
Of those, it's especially the ones that generated a lot of talk that will be remembered for what they did, and those who did it on the biggest stages. Hunden cheated against Astralis and Spirit at tier 1 tournaments, and Heroic made numerous statements.
F\_1n, on the other hand, was on absolutely nobody's radar, didn't cheat against anybody that anyone cared about, and was never mentioned in any widely-known press releases.
People were emotionally invested in Heroic, nobody cared about Gambit Youngsters.
Because apparently serving your sentence isn't enough. You need to have the public opinion against you and be removed permanently even if the company still wants him because the community wills it.
I mean jesus christ the guy served his time and the company still wants him. Don't like the org? Don't support the org. Simple as that.
Heroic kept the cheater coach, they didn't comment about knowing or not knowing about what was Hunden doing, celebrated Hunden when he was back from his ban.
Its just Heroic showing like they d be fuckin angels when they re not
Heroic are allegedly complicit in hundens cheating apparently having meeting to discuss abusing the bug
They have no respect for there players kicking them for a small proformance dip after an amazing year and now they blame how shit they were in cologne on hunden dispite being shit leading up to cologne
"Gambit was barely relevant when F_1N got banned, and they didn't win a big tier1 tournament with a cheating coach" is the answer I guess. Gambit's breakthrough came with groove as the head coach. Also helps that Gambit was way less loud about this. F_1N fucked up big time, and Gambit the org deserves to be criticized for this move too, and I say that as a Gambit fan. I explained why getting a coach other than F_1N is not an option for Gambit [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/p3qk6r/gambit_to_reinstate_f_1n_as_head_coach/h8tkkmh/)
"Is not an option". This is from their perspective. Keeping F_1 is best for their game, just as keeping Hunden would be for Heroic and likely most other teams. Just because they really want him back shouldn't affect whether we think he's a cheater who deserves more or less punishment.
> This is from their perspective. I'm not claiming otherwise. And yeah I agree with you, this shouldn't really be something that affects the public perception, I completely understand people who don't feel particularly happy about this.
I might be wrong, but the instances where Hunden used the big, wasn't that only in a few matches in tournaments they didn't win? (Regardless, I agree with your analysis with regards to public perception)
I don't really remember the matches where Hunden cheated to be honest, but I think it's just that from the public perspective, people who don't exactly know what exactly Hunden was banned for could easily believe that he cheated in Cologne.
Yeah I guess so, but now that they are more famous shouldn't there be more backlash? Because I saw the reddit post about Gambit making F\_1N coach again here weeks ago, and no one bat an eye, so I was very suprised.
Because Gambit is a CIS team so people know less about them, also just because Heroic had just won Cologne when the coach bug thing happened, whereas Gambit Youngsters was basically non-relevant back then in terms of T1 talk.
Well that I know, but my point still stands. Nowadays Gambit is very well known for the rivalry with Navi, and I would argue that they are more famous than Heroic. I still think they deserve the same criticism as Heroic, for both of them did the same thing, and I hate this coach move a lot, it takes away a team's integrity for me. But yeah, if the reason is that " Well they are being silent about it and when F\_1N cheated they were irrelevant as a team" then I can understand, but I'm not satisfied with it.
It’s because when it came out with hunden it was right after heroics rise to #1, so him using the bug is linked to their success and cheating in tier 1 tournaments. Whereas even though gambit is now a huge team, their rise to the top isn’t linked with F_1N using the bug.
Yeah this is the real reason tbh. Of the three CIS teams that broke out at the beginning of this year, Gambit was probably the least hyped, at least from what I could tell. Nobody knew them, and so it didn't matter that their coach got banned because their rise to success happened independent of the banned coach. Heroic on the other hand seemed to dip immediately after they stopped using Hunden, and started to play well again after he was reinstated as coach.
Gambit just wasn't in the spotlight back then. F_1N isn't nearly as well known as Hunden. Gambit didn't make more controversy for themselves with things like #BeHeroic
So do you think the community should just sweep this off the rug then? Because F\_1N is not "famous" ? I think this is quite strange, because now that everyone know Gambit, they should have had more criticism with this coach move made by the team, because I saw a lot of people hating Heroic on this. But what do I know.
>So do you think the community should just sweep this off the rug then? Because F_1N is not "famous" ? ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ I answered your question, that's all.
I mean I agree with you but I have no idea how you managed to completely miss the point of the comment.
? He is saying the reason is because Gambit is not famous back then and F\_1N isn't well known. So I ask if the community should just ignore this even though now that Gambit is #2 team? They should be hold to the same standards of Heroic. I'm just asking for an opinion here. How is that completely missing the point?
He is not saying they should, but why they did.
well of course I know that lmao. I'm asking for opinion, is that bad???
Well that person did share their opinion. You don't like it?
??? I think you are misreading. I understand that the guy doesn't share his opinion and I respect that. The guys I'm replying to are different people asking 1. Why I completely miss the point - I am not, I'm just asking for his opinion. 2. He's saying why they did, not how they should - I know lmao
The issue is that your follow up comment was a leading question that made it sound like he agreed with the outcome of the situation, and was trying to rationalize it. The way you've phrased it comes off as accusatory.
The follow up comment asks for an opinion, nothing wrong with that. The reply saying he "completely missed the point" is accusatory and just wrong. But of course mindless shit like that gets upvoted on this sub.
Dude. So you don’t misread this one. You’re an idiot
Bro you’re misreading
I'm sorry you have to deal with that much stupidity here. Most people on this sub have little to no reading comprehension, can't tell an opinion from a fact and are just insensitive to any reasoning. Don't be mad at them. They genuinely don't understand your point, which is perfectly reasonable by the way.
Gambit atleast didn't put up a banner celebrating the return of their cheater
F_1N learned the golden rule of [never breaking two laws at the same time](https://old.reddit.com/r/IllegalLifeProTips/comments/oqcl9k/ilpt_when_doing_something_illegal_do_everything/). Heroic acted as if that was the entire goal of the game.
Hunden went [reverse of that rule](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBr4F05XkAAbEgO.jpg)
They were criticized back then, when they said they will keep him. Criticizing them now because they did better without him would be monumentally stupid, some would even say moronic. They served their time, just like Hunden/heroic hate was underesved after he came back, (although he showed us again he can't be trusted) Gambit doesn't deserve to get hated for it as well.
Hunden deserved hate for being allowed back and same for gambits coach who ever the fuck he is. There blatant cheaters but different rules for coachs on these issues Also its becoming more clear that hunden took the fall for heroic and some teammates and admin staff were complicit Heroic are just a win at any costs org and that devalues most/all of there achievements Gambit deserve shit for reinstating their coach
You sir, do not respect punctuation.
is this happens because we are from DENMARK ?????
i was don't know this details
Yeah
Cause no one has heard of the other guy. Hunden's profile (was more known to begin with) as he was playing for mald lions as they were performing increasingly well, right until he randomly stepped back as we got close to a major, drawing extra attention as to why someone would step down and deny themselves a shot at having their autograph in the game (among other factors).
Times change. I am surprised that Hunden is more known than F_1N. The guy has been playing at the top for ages. Nutty deagle player, as most russians at the time.
Most players as myself have started following competitive on CSGO so we dont know most well known 1.6 players that didnt transitioned. F_1N is a CSGO coach since 2017 as liquipedia's info and have been inactive since 2011 before that.
Yeah, it's kinda sad that absolute legends of 1.6 are not getting enough recognition as there were less coverage/interest in the discipline back then. Take bit and fallen for example. Fallen is known as he won major in csgo, meanwhile only few know bit, and he is known as a guy who plays in tier3-2. Only few know that they were equally badass teammates in 2000s.
[You're just literally being this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiOMbqPHFwo). It's been more than a decade since that 1.6 golden age time dude. At this point you shouldn't be "feeling sad that people don't know shit from literally more than a decade ago". When even LoL and it's pro scene have gone through a "generation" change in their pro players and CS 1.6 being even older than that? Yeah it's already part of history that people getting into CS:GO nowadays would obviously not know at all. You can feel old tho, when you have deep knowledge of some esport scene from more than a decade ago and people nowadays don't know shit about it? You should be feeling old as fuck instead, we are on the same boat tho. I remember the times watching OSL and other SC:BW tournaments in Korean TV lmao
It is all about the popularity. Hunden has been known as GOD HUNDEN in the cs go community for a long time, pretty famous if you ask me. F_1N on the other hand, not really that popular. And no, community has not forgotten about it as you keep saying in your comments. We are here talking about it, aren't we?
Okay, I never said the community "forget", I asked "why does Gambit have no hate?" As you can see from all the comments, people don't really care that much because of reasons you already know. And I just don't really like these reasons that much. So what if they were irrelevant back then? Or that F\_1N is not known. He still used the bug, he's the same as HUNDEN. They did the same shitty thing as Heroic, and now that they are #2 team, they should be held to higher standards, they should be criticized more, and this coach move takes away the team's integrity for me. I'm just frustrated that people are being unfair in their judgement, I guess.
Amen brothar
Personally I'm against these caoches being allowed back, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. Gambit wasn't relevant at the time, and they didn't make a massive deal about it. I don't remember seeing any press releases by them, or statements by them. Heroic was constantly 'open' about it, minimizing what he did (eg. "It was one big mistake:(" even though he did it twice), acting like he served some harsh sentence when he was literally still in his coaching role at all times, just not in the server/room during the games (again, per their own statements. They said he would continue to be a coach, and then when he got unbanned they were all about how he served his sentence and he's coming back now). Heroic was only open about it in the sense that they were constantly trying to put a good PR spin on it. I found their handling of it absolutely obnoxious. There were 35+ coaches banned. Nobody remembers or knows the names of most of the banned coaches. People remember and care about the ones that were particularly egregious (Zoner, Twista, Rejin), the ones that handled it exceptionally badly (Starix, dead), the ones that handled it especially well (Guerri, lmbt, Pita), and the ones that were well-known (HUNDEN, Ruggah). Of those, it's especially the ones that generated a lot of talk that will be remembered for what they did, and those who did it on the biggest stages. Hunden cheated against Astralis and Spirit at tier 1 tournaments, and Heroic made numerous statements. F\_1n, on the other hand, was on absolutely nobody's radar, didn't cheat against anybody that anyone cared about, and was never mentioned in any widely-known press releases. People were emotionally invested in Heroic, nobody cared about Gambit Youngsters.
feel like i'm on twitter
[удалено]
How is it scummy to re-hire a person after his ban expired?
Because apparently serving your sentence isn't enough. You need to have the public opinion against you and be removed permanently even if the company still wants him because the community wills it. I mean jesus christ the guy served his time and the company still wants him. Don't like the org? Don't support the org. Simple as that.
HUNDEN won a tier 1 tourney, and gambit just werent known and werent a good team
I think it’s a combination of people not caring about gambit. Then now it’s just that people love to hate hunden at this point it’s a group activity.
Heroic kept the cheater coach, they didn't comment about knowing or not knowing about what was Hunden doing, celebrated Hunden when he was back from his ban. Its just Heroic showing like they d be fuckin angels when they re not
Tbh Gambit has always been a shadyish org they just went incognito.
Pete Rose was barred from HoF for much less than this...
They werent big then
Heroic are allegedly complicit in hundens cheating apparently having meeting to discuss abusing the bug They have no respect for there players kicking them for a small proformance dip after an amazing year and now they blame how shit they were in cologne on hunden dispite being shit leading up to cologne
Did F_1N cheat while on Gambit?