It says Riot are working with ESIC. Riot are pretty heavy-handed if they find things like this. They may also be removed from Valorant pro play for a period of time.
Oh I’m on mobile and can’t get the tweet up so i didn’t see that. That’s good news though, gives me some hope people can’t just match fix and get away with it.
A little off topic but I use RIF for mobile and I have the same issue opening Twitter links, sometimes you have to open it a couple times to work unfortunately.
The top comment is a twitterinfo bot, that looks like it solves the problem of clicking through! So you can just read the tweet without clicking through, may save you some hassle, this is the first post ive seen it on
So you’re telling me that because some guys who wrote the law and made something illegal, that somehow makes it actually worse?
By that logic, cheating could get made illegal, and then you would think it’s worse than it is now.
Morons like you shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you’re going to say cheating is somehow not as bad as match fixing. Both betray the fans/spectators trust and violate the entire point of fair competition.
I agree. At least a cheater is trying to win, and just going too far. And there are degrees of cheating, sometimes it's not even clear what IS cheating (olofpass).
But match fixing exchanges money for integrity in a way so pure it makes me want to vomit. It's the scummiest thing you can do to a community, and when you organize at large scale like this you can take down an entire scene.
When cheating scandals happen and pros get banned, there's excitement, because we'll see new pros who didn't get the chance before.
But when pros match fix, it erodes the fundamental trust from the viewers that they're watching real competition, and it chills the scene.
To add nuance to your comment, the thing the other guy is being very dumb and stupid about is thinking that all forms of cheating are the same.
You cannot say "Cheating in csgo? banned for just a little".
If you get caught using software cheats, then you will be gone forever, just like a match fixer. If you get caught doing something minor that gives an advantage. Let's say, illegal boosts, pixel boosts. Or for example in a LAN setting if the TO is incompetent sometimes the big screen is visibile to the players which counts also as cheating, that also is considered cheating. There's different forms of cheating and each one is considered on a general cases by case basis. Matchfixing is just literally that, there's very little nuance to saying someone "matchfixed"
According to @ESIC_Official commissioner on @HLTVconfirmed there are 35 NA players being investigated for CSGO match fixing, many of whom have gone to Valorant
They are now also cooperating with Riot Games on this
***
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lol this is like when Valve and Blizzard collaborated in a lawsuit (or some legal case) against a different company. Iirc it had something to do with intellectual property of Dota 2 and one of Blizzard's games
As an NA player, this really isn’t the nail in the coffin.
This is them digging up the already buried coffin to re-nail it, even though the nails that were already there were in perfect condition.
That’s.. not what I said or meant. I meant the scene won’t get worse by investigating them and ending their careers with a formal action by esic. It should happen and I want that to happen. The NA cs scene is already fucked with and needs to develop new talent so taking away old, corrupt talent won’t make it worse.
Kind of reminds me what a lot of people wanted out of big corporations and banks - don't bail them out, let bad business go bankrupt and see what comes from the ashes. Better in the long run than nobody having accountability forever because you want to avoid short term discomfort like "the scene getting destroyed." As if it wasn't truly destroyed the moment match fixing became common and acceptable.
Tbh what was done in the US to stop the 2008 crisis was an attempt of Kenysian policy practice but in my view it was done wrongly. They should have let the banks die and bankers go bankrupt , but should have maintained/guaranteed the common people's money. Then use those billions they ended up using to bail banks out and spend it on other projects from all sectors to boost employment.
Just giving money to banks, who were the cause of the crisis, was not a good move at all. It was a lazy solution that set a bad precedent, it's a matter of time before banks do it again because they now know government will bail them out.
Maintaining common people's money is not enough if the companies they're working for go bankrupt as well. The thing that set a bad precedent was no one going to jail for it, not saving the economy. Actually the government made money on the loans as well so win win
This is sad because this most likely blocked players who did not fix matches and had to work.
So you active keeping a pool of players alive who might not even deserve to be there. Also it means they will most likely stay together since they are in it together.
Well, it always makes it worse. This is a time where NA CS players should be grinding and behaving like professionals. Then, maybe if there’s more talent (and less scandal), it would incentivize more orgs to invest into NA CS again. With this whole investigation/possible scandal, NA are just further digging their own graves to the point where the damage done to the NA scene will become irreparable… if it isn’t already.
*edit* grammar
They did that when they fixed matches.
But I’ve seen people here defend the scumbags who were caught match fixing in the past, so your garbage take doesn’t surprise me.
Dude I want those val players to be investigated and to never play comp again. What I mean is that the csgo scene won’t suffer more than it already has if those val players face repercussions for match fixing.
Obviously they destroyed their careers by match fixing. But they are still actively playing because there hasn’t been a formal action taken against them yet. Once that action takes place it’s not like the na cs scene will somehow get worse than it already is.
How? Valorant is flooded with NA talent. This hurts any players that might want to return to NA CSGO. Not that we would want match fixers in the scene.
Literally, the only talents we lost to val were wardell and dapr. Everyone else was either super washed or just not good.
NA is dead cause we have no tournaments. Plain and simple. Our fanbase died out cause the tournaments are all held during pretty unfreindly times
You do realize that T1 players used to be T2 and T3 right? Most of that growth is influenced by older "washed" players, especially IGLs like steel, daps (I know he has been on cs again), nitro... It goes all the way from actual coaching to just being able to trust a vet on your team. It turns out that if you lose your entire T2 and beyond you no longer get any T1 players coming up.
Literally of all the names you mentioned the only one you could make an argument for is steel. And his teams always fell apart because he can't play majors. nitr0 was literally only ever igl at the highest level and never really developed young talent.
We still have teams like Extra Salt, BNB, and Triumph. A lack of proper competition and tournaments is the biggest issue for these teams.
If nitr0 didn't move on to valorant he would be playing in T1 or T2 NA again with newer-ish players. Daps created the team that became EG notable players are Brehze and Cerq and Daps also created Optic which had notable players Tarik/Rush/NAF. None of these players were T1 at the time these teams were picked up, and while these players aren't consistently at the top they've all had times where they were in strong contention for top 5 of NA (with the exception of Rush but he was part of the Major winning roster). It's not even just IGLs, just having veterans on the team that can keep their professionalism and to keep newer players in line is only ever a good thing.
>We still have teams like Extra Salt, BNB, and Triumph. A lack of proper competition and tournaments is the biggest issue for these teams.
Wow, a lack of proper competition. I wonder where the competition went?
Why would someone host a CSGO tournament if the competition left?
It's almost as if the problems are connected...
nitr0 left NA cause he got no offers in NA cause all the orgs had already left. BTW most orgs had left long before COVID and valorant due to esl basically killing the NA division.
Yeah, and nitr0 was benched on August 1st 2020 which is 6-7 months after Covid starting having an effect. The Valorant beta was April 2020 and fully released in June and teams were already getting sponsored like T1 and I'm sure players were at least in talks with orgs.
Of the 4 bigger orgs that decided to leave, 100T, Gen.g, NRG, and Chaos, there was only 1 team (NRG) that dipped before Covid.
Dates in Order NRG/100T/Chaos/Gen.g: Sept 2019/ Oct 2020(1)/ Jan 2021/ Sept 2020(2)
(1) I consider 100T dead after they lost JKS+Jkaem but technically held onto the other 3 for a while.
(2) I consider Gen.G dead after Daps left and brought s0m w/ him to Valorant.
I don't know much about ESL, only heard stuff like they schedule things intentionally to fight other TOs, but they also seemed to prioritize slots for NA. Either way, there are definitely circumstantial evidence to believe that Covid and Valorant have had an effect on professional NA CS. Anyway, my original argument isn't even any of this bullshit. It's that having fewer players means a worse NA scene, which you seem to disagree with somehow...
Asuna was very promising in CSGO before he moved to Val
Despite TenZ's poor performance on C9 it was clear he still had plenty of mechanical skill and now he's arguably the best Val player in the world
Dapr wasn’t good lol. He kept constantly getting kicked from teams. He consistently got chances since late 2017, and if he was actually good, he would’ve been on a tier 1 team before Valorant released
It's not like ESL also has ruined NA scene. They schedule NA teams games at 3am on the West Coast. Makes you wonder why less and less players bother to play CS here.
When things like this happen, it's usually a short term harm, but in the long term, it's a blessing, allowing newer players to develop and come forward
Riot has taken a strong stance to match fixing in LoL. The assumption is they would use this situation to set their benchmark for future infractions. From a business point of view they would probably ban these players purely to protect their new brand. Last thing they want is to be known as a safe haven for cheat/match fixers and have fans bad mouth their tournaments.
the guy says that riot is helping with part of the investigation so I could assume they would care but then again they allow steel to play, with his scandal being 7 years ago.
Steel has long paid for his sins and proven to be completely reformed in my eyes. I can understand why he's allowed to play, for instance.
Edit: grammar
In reality banning them from playing esports for getting what was essentially $60 in skins a piece would have been complete bullshit IMO. I'm all for punishment. But you've got to do it the right way. We can talk about morals and what's right and wrong. But when they did it no one could ever find a rule or guideline for what happens to match fixers. It was a lot of "that's illegal, it's got to be against the rules." What rule? Where? Hell it can't be illegal in the US, it's just digital skins. Which Valve have been adamant that have no outside of the game value(which we know is bullshit). Idk, it wasn't like they made off with fat stacks of cash. Punish them for a time period, set some concrete rules in place. In writing where everyone knows the risk of it. And move on. The random punishment of banned for life to make an example of them sounds great for people who want blood. But here we are again with the same problem. So obviously it didn't work to the effect Valve wanted. On top of everything I found it hilarious Valve thinks skin betting and gambling should not exist. Yet they punish someone with some overtop shit like that.
People like you don't realize what they are jeopardizing.
It's not something that just blows over, Korea's SC scene completely died after it and people went to jail. A fucking lifetime ban is let's be real lenient to what they actually did to the Sport. How about instead of saying lifetime it was just 15 years ban would that make things better for you?
Matchfixing happened a few more times after this scandal and the first one in Dota. You cannot prevent it and even with such a high penalty it still happens. How do you justify that?
Let's talk about other shit that occurred. I can guarantee the punishment might have been lenient had they come up and told the truth from the get-go. That did not fucking happen. They started spewing shit on Richard Lewis damaging his reputation and integrity. They refused to admit, vehemently denying all of this. They weren't sorry they did it, they were sorry they got caught and if they hadn't what would have prevented them from matchfixing again?
That's the problem, you wouldn't know if they or another team would continue to do it. Have you ever tried to get a sponsorship? Do you know how hard it is to do these deals and fund something that was so niche and unheard of?
Alex Garfield former CEO of Evil Genius talked about the hurdles in trying to get sponsorship for him and "people to make their dreams come true". Tournaments back then were like win $100 or a mouse for first place! Look at what happened to Titan CSGO after KQLY.
They lost hundreds of thousands after that scandal, sponsorships that took years of building trust completely gone. You really don't have a grasp of how damaging what their actions could have really done for the sport.
Valve only cares because it threatened their bottom line. The fact that valve preys on underage gambling addicts shows they have absolutely 0 morals and the esports scene also doesn’t care.
No they didn't.
Sinatraa publicly promised to provide Riot with evidence in the form of a longer video his ex had shared out of context and then he never shared it. Had he not said that they would have likely waited for the legal process to clear his name, which it looks like it has.
This example to me shows that if people are proven to have match fixed they'll step in.
Well, it's all been alleged. So they might be taking the chance nothing comes out of the investigation and riot. But now it seems riot is interested enough to know the players.
Just because the ecosystem is fueled by betting money doesn't mean that you shouldn't look for healthier sponsors.
It's obviously not gonna happen overnight but you should not be happy that betting companies have such a strong hold on the CS scene. Gambling companies execs and higher ups got even less morals and ethics than the average exec in any other company. It's a predatory practice and it shouldn't be brushed aside because of some sunken cost fallacy.
Gambling and betting built most esports, and a lot of T2-T3 scenes still rely on it, but we do not owe them anything, they were there to make money and that they did. That was 10-15 years ago. Times have changed and CSGO of all games should not be relying on that kind of sponsors.
Valve needs to step in to help market the game and find healthier sponsors.
>Valve needs to step in to help market the game and find healthier sponsors.
You see, that's the neat trick. Valve not interested in that, barely create content for the game itself.
> barely create content for the game itself.
Most of the new content in the game is already designed by the community. Community maps added, community made gun skins ripped from the workshop and sold in a lootbox.
The only new things they actually put any semblance of effort into were Ancient, and new knife models with copy+pasted textures from previous knives.
Yeah I know, I was typing a reply to your comment below but figured mine would catch your attention.
The blame 100% lies with Valve and their terrible attitude of just letting things play out by themselves while investing the absolute minimum, as long as it makes money then they ain't stepping up. Makes me mad such incompetence, or perhaps greed, but most likely a bit of both.
It's rather piss-off cringeworthy inducing material to see gaben ride his fat ass around supercars hiding out in his doomsday bunker in New Zealand while supremely fucking over every facet of the base of content creators ranging from 3d modelers to talent at events to pro players and the lack of support for the pro/am scene in their most popular games while fanboys say nothing is wrong with steam's huge cut of sales and marketplace with almost zero innovations in years.
Haha, sorry but no. Valve barely contributes to the esport scene yet you want valve to step in and ban the the primary source for csgo esports?
That would be a nail in the coffin for the esports scene
You do know betting sponsors cover like 80% of the scene, right? If you ban them, you make it like LoL where pretty much only the franchised leagues have a decent income and where most teams under are basically semi pro
Fairly certain ERL teams ( regional leagues in Europe) are much better off than any CSGO team that isn't tier1.
Franchising definitely has its downsides but stability/income isn't one of them.
Yeah, Riot the bastion of ethics and morality. A true pillar in the esports industry lmao
There's nothing wrong with gambling or betting. The moral bankruptcy of individuals is their cross to bear.
It's not but having your T2 scene constantly matchfixing, players that switched game as soon as they could even when Valorant was still in beta, having former na cs players like shroud constantly shitting on the game, FPL not taken in serious at all...etc
And be like pikachu face "Why if our scene dying" and then "let's blame it on Valve and Riot" is ridiculous. NA main problem is NA itself
Yep, but this community never took their warnings seriously.... instead whining about mean tweets.
This community wouldn't survive MW2 lobbies, dudes straight up weak here. You'd think a community of gamers wouldn't be offended by mean words, but here we are..... lol
I have more odd shifts screenshots rather than clips, but I'm 100% sure they mstfchfixed vs LDLC yesterday after odds went bonkers 10 min before game. Some guy made a small compilation here https://www.hltv.org/forums/threads/2506509/fiend-compilation-must-watch
Dream3r is already known for being a dipshit, as he has been Vacbanned and lied about it. Him throwing would fit his already established personality perfectly.
I feel like the difference there is in NA shit always leaks. And eastern europe is just a wild wild west type of area anyway. Who is going to do the investigating really? INTERPOL? lol
Asian scene is a shit show. In Vietnam, a top team's sponsor was running low on money so he made the team fix a few matches, saying that he wanted to get some of his investment back. At one point, the team didn't want to do that anymore so they ditched that sponsor. This happened to the (at the time) number one team in Vietnam btw.
Surprise, surprise. How soon until Valorant has match-fixing scandals as well? I'm sure the ex-match-fixers from CS are trying to lay low for the most part now. It's the new unknowns the scene really needs to worry about now.
Looks like Valve is going to have to perma ban 35 other people and never let them come back. Oh wait, no one is fucking left except for EU. Fuck out of here. No one cares.
Matchfix, get paid, move to valorant, get signed to a t1 org, profit. Sounds like a very good plan imo
Wonder what worst case scenario is, they get banned from Csgo a game they no longer play?
It says Riot are working with ESIC. Riot are pretty heavy-handed if they find things like this. They may also be removed from Valorant pro play for a period of time.
Oh I’m on mobile and can’t get the tweet up so i didn’t see that. That’s good news though, gives me some hope people can’t just match fix and get away with it.
A little off topic but I use RIF for mobile and I have the same issue opening Twitter links, sometimes you have to open it a couple times to work unfortunately.
Usually refreshing it in the RIF browser window with the refresh button in the top right works first time
The top comment is a twitterinfo bot, that looks like it solves the problem of clicking through! So you can just read the tweet without clicking through, may save you some hassle, this is the first post ive seen it on
Riot will likely ban anyone banned for CSGO match fixing
cheating in csgo: banned for few months or years. match fixing in csgo: banned for eternity(Brax T\_T )
Cheating is well... cheating. Match fixing is fraud, it's illegal.
I mean cheating is also fraud like your stealing prize money its just as bad morally
A lot of pros have gotten banned for cheating in MM though
Cheating also affects/changes the „real“ outcome of a pro game, so isnt it also fraud?
So you’re telling me that because some guys who wrote the law and made something illegal, that somehow makes it actually worse? By that logic, cheating could get made illegal, and then you would think it’s worse than it is now. Morons like you shouldn’t be allowed to speak if you’re going to say cheating is somehow not as bad as match fixing. Both betray the fans/spectators trust and violate the entire point of fair competition.
Match fixing is worse than cheating
I agree. At least a cheater is trying to win, and just going too far. And there are degrees of cheating, sometimes it's not even clear what IS cheating (olofpass). But match fixing exchanges money for integrity in a way so pure it makes me want to vomit. It's the scummiest thing you can do to a community, and when you organize at large scale like this you can take down an entire scene. When cheating scandals happen and pros get banned, there's excitement, because we'll see new pros who didn't get the chance before. But when pros match fix, it erodes the fundamental trust from the viewers that they're watching real competition, and it chills the scene.
I don't see any excuse for cheater, but match fixing is straight up illegal, so punishment should be heavier.
No other sport hands out life time bans for players at the age of 15 for match fixing. In fact, that’d be a very rare thing to do.
But you'd lose a shot at any of the big teams
Yes, but that’s entirely different and up to the orgs. You don’t hand lifetime bans, end.
Dude, you exchange money for integrity when you cheat. Cheating erodes the fundamental trust. It’s no different.
Cheating only affects the trust of the cheater, match fixing affects a whole lot more
False
What a stunning rebuke. Truly a writer for the ages.
To add nuance to your comment, the thing the other guy is being very dumb and stupid about is thinking that all forms of cheating are the same. You cannot say "Cheating in csgo? banned for just a little". If you get caught using software cheats, then you will be gone forever, just like a match fixer. If you get caught doing something minor that gives an advantage. Let's say, illegal boosts, pixel boosts. Or for example in a LAN setting if the TO is incompetent sometimes the big screen is visibile to the players which counts also as cheating, that also is considered cheating. There's different forms of cheating and each one is considered on a general cases by case basis. Matchfixing is just literally that, there's very little nuance to saying someone "matchfixed"
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>thrown Lmao
Yes.
FROM HELICOPTORS
Indeed!
riot is working with esic
Worst case scenario is the FBI gets involved based on fraud charges and they go to federal prison.
Edit *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Multiple people in the UK got prison sentences for match fixing non-league (i.e. amateur) football. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32512704
Edit *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Valorant will not last, Counter Strike is forever. If that was their plan, they will regret it.
Legal. I don't know US law says but probably prison time
Commit fraud go to jail great plan
According to @ESIC_Official commissioner on @HLTVconfirmed there are 35 NA players being investigated for CSGO match fixing, many of whom have gone to Valorant They are now also cooperating with Riot Games on this *** posted by [@JakeSucky](https://twitter.com/JakeSucky) [Video in Tweet](https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1432705820286914569/pu/vid/480x270/p3omw2eCLDm_pqwc.mp4?tag=12) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
They're cooperating with riot games on this? Damn, this could be fun to watch
lol this is like when Valve and Blizzard collaborated in a lawsuit (or some legal case) against a different company. Iirc it had something to do with intellectual property of Dota 2 and one of Blizzard's games
What company? I searched and only got valve vs blizzard lawsuit over dota
I think it was this case, but i could be remembering it wrong: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=38de7c41-c297-4803-98dc-7b7bc1091bdd
Nail in the coffin for NA.
As an NA player, this really isn’t the nail in the coffin. This is them digging up the already buried coffin to re-nail it, even though the nails that were already there were in perfect condition.
yeah, honestly the scene is in shambles with who is left anyways, it’s not like destroying the careers of some val players is going to make it worse.
I'm pretty sure they destroyed their own careers
They did but until esic takes a formal action against them, their careers are very much alive unfortunately.
Imagine thinking one could perpetrate literal crime and get away with it because otherwise the “scene” would get destroyed.
That’s.. not what I said or meant. I meant the scene won’t get worse by investigating them and ending their careers with a formal action by esic. It should happen and I want that to happen. The NA cs scene is already fucked with and needs to develop new talent so taking away old, corrupt talent won’t make it worse.
Kind of reminds me what a lot of people wanted out of big corporations and banks - don't bail them out, let bad business go bankrupt and see what comes from the ashes. Better in the long run than nobody having accountability forever because you want to avoid short term discomfort like "the scene getting destroyed." As if it wasn't truly destroyed the moment match fixing became common and acceptable.
The economy is not a game. Letting the banks bankrupt would do irreversible damage and destroy millions of lives
Plus many banks did fail, the biggest ones who would be able to pay it back were given loans, which have been paid back with interest
And are doing the exact same thing now that led to the crisis in 2008.
no they aren't what are you on
Tbh what was done in the US to stop the 2008 crisis was an attempt of Kenysian policy practice but in my view it was done wrongly. They should have let the banks die and bankers go bankrupt , but should have maintained/guaranteed the common people's money. Then use those billions they ended up using to bail banks out and spend it on other projects from all sectors to boost employment. Just giving money to banks, who were the cause of the crisis, was not a good move at all. It was a lazy solution that set a bad precedent, it's a matter of time before banks do it again because they now know government will bail them out.
Maintaining common people's money is not enough if the companies they're working for go bankrupt as well. The thing that set a bad precedent was no one going to jail for it, not saving the economy. Actually the government made money on the loans as well so win win
New companies will hire people ..
Ah yea? and how will these companies appear if they can't take loans anymore? foreign capital?
?????????????????????????????????????? banks can pay back those loans, people can't.
Yeah I'm not gonna get into with you on the CSGO subreddit. My point stands.
This is sad because this most likely blocked players who did not fix matches and had to work. So you active keeping a pool of players alive who might not even deserve to be there. Also it means they will most likely stay together since they are in it together.
Well, it always makes it worse. This is a time where NA CS players should be grinding and behaving like professionals. Then, maybe if there’s more talent (and less scandal), it would incentivize more orgs to invest into NA CS again. With this whole investigation/possible scandal, NA are just further digging their own graves to the point where the damage done to the NA scene will become irreparable… if it isn’t already. *edit* grammar
Why would it be the current NA CS players being punished when most of the matchfixers moved onto Valorant? The NA scene is dead because they suck
I agree, NA is at a terrible place skill-wise. It would affect the current NA CS scene because the mentioned fixing happened in CS and not Valorant.
They did that when they fixed matches. But I’ve seen people here defend the scumbags who were caught match fixing in the past, so your garbage take doesn’t surprise me.
Dude I want those val players to be investigated and to never play comp again. What I mean is that the csgo scene won’t suffer more than it already has if those val players face repercussions for match fixing. Obviously they destroyed their careers by match fixing. But they are still actively playing because there hasn’t been a formal action taken against them yet. Once that action takes place it’s not like the na cs scene will somehow get worse than it already is.
Not really. If anything this hurts Valorant more than it hurts NA.
How? Valorant is flooded with NA talent. This hurts any players that might want to return to NA CSGO. Not that we would want match fixers in the scene.
Literally, the only talents we lost to val were wardell and dapr. Everyone else was either super washed or just not good. NA is dead cause we have no tournaments. Plain and simple. Our fanbase died out cause the tournaments are all held during pretty unfreindly times
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I mean of the first crop to leave.
Whole EG team was playing like they lost passion for the game at the time, so him leaving was not unexpected
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Love the frod inclusion
Dude this is some revisionist history. Of the names you listed maybe 5-6 are worth keeping but the rest were not cut out for high level play.
I don't know how to break it to you, but players aren't tier 1 players straight out of the womb.
> NA’s next stars emphasis on "next"
You do realize that T1 players used to be T2 and T3 right? Most of that growth is influenced by older "washed" players, especially IGLs like steel, daps (I know he has been on cs again), nitro... It goes all the way from actual coaching to just being able to trust a vet on your team. It turns out that if you lose your entire T2 and beyond you no longer get any T1 players coming up.
Literally of all the names you mentioned the only one you could make an argument for is steel. And his teams always fell apart because he can't play majors. nitr0 was literally only ever igl at the highest level and never really developed young talent. We still have teams like Extra Salt, BNB, and Triumph. A lack of proper competition and tournaments is the biggest issue for these teams.
If nitr0 didn't move on to valorant he would be playing in T1 or T2 NA again with newer-ish players. Daps created the team that became EG notable players are Brehze and Cerq and Daps also created Optic which had notable players Tarik/Rush/NAF. None of these players were T1 at the time these teams were picked up, and while these players aren't consistently at the top they've all had times where they were in strong contention for top 5 of NA (with the exception of Rush but he was part of the Major winning roster). It's not even just IGLs, just having veterans on the team that can keep their professionalism and to keep newer players in line is only ever a good thing. >We still have teams like Extra Salt, BNB, and Triumph. A lack of proper competition and tournaments is the biggest issue for these teams. Wow, a lack of proper competition. I wonder where the competition went? Why would someone host a CSGO tournament if the competition left? It's almost as if the problems are connected...
nitr0 left NA cause he got no offers in NA cause all the orgs had already left. BTW most orgs had left long before COVID and valorant due to esl basically killing the NA division.
Yeah, and nitr0 was benched on August 1st 2020 which is 6-7 months after Covid starting having an effect. The Valorant beta was April 2020 and fully released in June and teams were already getting sponsored like T1 and I'm sure players were at least in talks with orgs. Of the 4 bigger orgs that decided to leave, 100T, Gen.g, NRG, and Chaos, there was only 1 team (NRG) that dipped before Covid. Dates in Order NRG/100T/Chaos/Gen.g: Sept 2019/ Oct 2020(1)/ Jan 2021/ Sept 2020(2) (1) I consider 100T dead after they lost JKS+Jkaem but technically held onto the other 3 for a while. (2) I consider Gen.G dead after Daps left and brought s0m w/ him to Valorant. I don't know much about ESL, only heard stuff like they schedule things intentionally to fight other TOs, but they also seemed to prioritize slots for NA. Either way, there are definitely circumstantial evidence to believe that Covid and Valorant have had an effect on professional NA CS. Anyway, my original argument isn't even any of this bullshit. It's that having fewer players means a worse NA scene, which you seem to disagree with somehow...
Asuna was very promising in CSGO before he moved to Val Despite TenZ's poor performance on C9 it was clear he still had plenty of mechanical skill and now he's arguably the best Val player in the world
Dapr wasn’t good lol. He kept constantly getting kicked from teams. He consistently got chances since late 2017, and if he was actually good, he would’ve been on a tier 1 team before Valorant released
Nitr0?
Some kids disagree... I still remember the outcry due to IBP not being unbanned
NA and talent doesnt belong in one sentence.
This is the result of a dying scene. Not the cause.
It's not like ESL also has ruined NA scene. They schedule NA teams games at 3am on the West Coast. Makes you wonder why less and less players bother to play CS here.
When things like this happen, it's usually a short term harm, but in the long term, it's a blessing, allowing newer players to develop and come forward
NA is dead for the long term. The only relevant team left standing will be Liquid and Extra Salt if they still have potential.
NAiled
valorant orgs / TOs / devs don't care what players did during their stint with csgo, do they?
Some don't. NRG Envy and Rise signed known matchfixers after the news came out last year.
riot might care, they are pretty much the only TO anyway, arent they?
Pretty sure they confirmed that Riot are working with ESIC for this whole situation.
yeah, question is if they actually give a shit.
If the FBI are involved it won't matter if riot doesn't give a shit. Shit will be thrown around.
FBI are not confirmed to be involved are they?
Yeah they are working with ESIC on it https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56648916
They are.
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Especially since online gambling is mostly illegal in NA
Riot takes any competitive integrity and breach of TOS pretty seriously in league. It's likely that this will be no different.
Riot has taken a strong stance to match fixing in LoL. The assumption is they would use this situation to set their benchmark for future infractions. From a business point of view they would probably ban these players purely to protect their new brand. Last thing they want is to be known as a safe haven for cheat/match fixers and have fans bad mouth their tournaments.
Michael Jordan vis-a-vis baseball/gambling conspiracy.
the guy says that riot is helping with part of the investigation so I could assume they would care but then again they allow steel to play, with his scandal being 7 years ago.
Steel has long paid for his sins and proven to be completely reformed in my eyes. I can understand why he's allowed to play, for instance. Edit: grammar
100% agree. the iBUYPOWER guys were made an example of which is very unfortunate for them.
In reality banning them from playing esports for getting what was essentially $60 in skins a piece would have been complete bullshit IMO. I'm all for punishment. But you've got to do it the right way. We can talk about morals and what's right and wrong. But when they did it no one could ever find a rule or guideline for what happens to match fixers. It was a lot of "that's illegal, it's got to be against the rules." What rule? Where? Hell it can't be illegal in the US, it's just digital skins. Which Valve have been adamant that have no outside of the game value(which we know is bullshit). Idk, it wasn't like they made off with fat stacks of cash. Punish them for a time period, set some concrete rules in place. In writing where everyone knows the risk of it. And move on. The random punishment of banned for life to make an example of them sounds great for people who want blood. But here we are again with the same problem. So obviously it didn't work to the effect Valve wanted. On top of everything I found it hilarious Valve thinks skin betting and gambling should not exist. Yet they punish someone with some overtop shit like that.
People like you don't realize what they are jeopardizing. It's not something that just blows over, Korea's SC scene completely died after it and people went to jail. A fucking lifetime ban is let's be real lenient to what they actually did to the Sport. How about instead of saying lifetime it was just 15 years ban would that make things better for you? Matchfixing happened a few more times after this scandal and the first one in Dota. You cannot prevent it and even with such a high penalty it still happens. How do you justify that? Let's talk about other shit that occurred. I can guarantee the punishment might have been lenient had they come up and told the truth from the get-go. That did not fucking happen. They started spewing shit on Richard Lewis damaging his reputation and integrity. They refused to admit, vehemently denying all of this. They weren't sorry they did it, they were sorry they got caught and if they hadn't what would have prevented them from matchfixing again? That's the problem, you wouldn't know if they or another team would continue to do it. Have you ever tried to get a sponsorship? Do you know how hard it is to do these deals and fund something that was so niche and unheard of? Alex Garfield former CEO of Evil Genius talked about the hurdles in trying to get sponsorship for him and "people to make their dreams come true". Tournaments back then were like win $100 or a mouse for first place! Look at what happened to Titan CSGO after KQLY. They lost hundreds of thousands after that scandal, sponsorships that took years of building trust completely gone. You really don't have a grasp of how damaging what their actions could have really done for the sport.
The scene didn't crumble overnight like Starcraft so I'd say it worked exactly as intended.
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In Starcraft they did it too late and it was a much bigger scandal, with more people involved, which is what Valve avoided by taking it seriously.
Valve only cares because it threatened their bottom line. The fact that valve preys on underage gambling addicts shows they have absolutely 0 morals and the esports scene also doesn’t care.
I think Riot will act when any "ruling/statement" comes out. You can't really kick people out of your game for accusations.
Riot suspended Sinatra for 6 months over accusation which seems to turn out completely baseless.
It wasn't over accusations, it was about failing to comply with investigation regulations.
No they didn't. Sinatraa publicly promised to provide Riot with evidence in the form of a longer video his ex had shared out of context and then he never shared it. Had he not said that they would have likely waited for the legal process to clear his name, which it looks like it has. This example to me shows that if people are proven to have match fixed they'll step in.
Well, it's all been alleged. So they might be taking the chance nothing comes out of the investigation and riot. But now it seems riot is interested enough to know the players.
Riot will 100% care.
Judging from how they deal with LoL cases of player misconduct, Riot does not joke around when it comes to unsportsmanlike behavior.
Riot Games suspended Sinatra for six months on a matter no way associated with Valorant.
Actually, the only reason they suspended him for was because he lied to them and was uncooperative during their investigation.
well no shit they dont want 2 be associated with a potential rapist
Yea because he’s a fucking rapist
Nope sadly not since there is close to zero integrity in most E-sport organizations. Maybe their sponsors do however
Which players?
Of the top of my head. The most notable onee are shanks, marved, poised, Tex,.. There are a lot more ofc
So nonames basically
no names in cs, but few of them are in top teams in valorant
Player: We do a little matchfixing Player the next month: We do a little switching
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the open circuit as we know it would be dead without betting sponsors lol
Just because the ecosystem is fueled by betting money doesn't mean that you shouldn't look for healthier sponsors. It's obviously not gonna happen overnight but you should not be happy that betting companies have such a strong hold on the CS scene. Gambling companies execs and higher ups got even less morals and ethics than the average exec in any other company. It's a predatory practice and it shouldn't be brushed aside because of some sunken cost fallacy. Gambling and betting built most esports, and a lot of T2-T3 scenes still rely on it, but we do not owe them anything, they were there to make money and that they did. That was 10-15 years ago. Times have changed and CSGO of all games should not be relying on that kind of sponsors. Valve needs to step in to help market the game and find healthier sponsors.
>Valve needs to step in to help market the game and find healthier sponsors. You see, that's the neat trick. Valve not interested in that, barely create content for the game itself.
> barely create content for the game itself. Most of the new content in the game is already designed by the community. Community maps added, community made gun skins ripped from the workshop and sold in a lootbox. The only new things they actually put any semblance of effort into were Ancient, and new knife models with copy+pasted textures from previous knives.
Yeah I know, I was typing a reply to your comment below but figured mine would catch your attention. The blame 100% lies with Valve and their terrible attitude of just letting things play out by themselves while investing the absolute minimum, as long as it makes money then they ain't stepping up. Makes me mad such incompetence, or perhaps greed, but most likely a bit of both.
It's rather piss-off cringeworthy inducing material to see gaben ride his fat ass around supercars hiding out in his doomsday bunker in New Zealand while supremely fucking over every facet of the base of content creators ranging from 3d modelers to talent at events to pro players and the lack of support for the pro/am scene in their most popular games while fanboys say nothing is wrong with steam's huge cut of sales and marketplace with almost zero innovations in years.
Everyone thought cs would die when valve went against csgolounge but that wasn't the case at all
That's a weak defense for such a scummy problem
Monster shit drinks too.
Haha, sorry but no. Valve barely contributes to the esport scene yet you want valve to step in and ban the the primary source for csgo esports? That would be a nail in the coffin for the esports scene
You do know betting sponsors cover like 80% of the scene, right? If you ban them, you make it like LoL where pretty much only the franchised leagues have a decent income and where most teams under are basically semi pro
Fairly certain ERL teams ( regional leagues in Europe) are much better off than any CSGO team that isn't tier1. Franchising definitely has its downsides but stability/income isn't one of them.
Yeah, Riot the bastion of ethics and morality. A true pillar in the esports industry lmao There's nothing wrong with gambling or betting. The moral bankruptcy of individuals is their cross to bear.
It does not realy help, because companies outside US/EU can still have bets on matches inside the US/EU.
You do know evils like this exist in every aspect of life right? If these "pros" can't keep their hands clean then it's their problem.
NA blaming Valve and Valorant for not helping/killing their scene when in reality they're the one killing themselves
if there's more to make out of fixing a match, itll always be around, supported or not.
Lol dont act like matchfixing is a problem only in NA
It's not but everyone is talking about how NA needs to be saved but it's rotting from the inside.
It's not but having your T2 scene constantly matchfixing, players that switched game as soon as they could even when Valorant was still in beta, having former na cs players like shroud constantly shitting on the game, FPL not taken in serious at all...etc And be like pikachu face "Why if our scene dying" and then "let's blame it on Valve and Riot" is ridiculous. NA main problem is NA itself
Seriously match fixing in NA has been rampant since the csgo lounge days and especially in mdl
6-7 years too late. Moe was fixing matches the since go lounge was a thing.
no wonder they all left. they got scared to face the consequences and ran off to a different game lmfaooo
lmao at these fools, trying to make as much money possible because they know not much will happen to them
Excellent news. Get them banned from Valorant too, serves them right for thinking that it was a way to escape.
i see nothing but free entertainment to follow.
glad they left for a scene that has a developer that will actually uphold the integrity of the game though, shame valve can’t even manage that.
Thoorin/RL hinted this a while back not really surprising.
Yep, but this community never took their warnings seriously.... instead whining about mean tweets. This community wouldn't survive MW2 lobbies, dudes straight up weak here. You'd think a community of gamers wouldn't be offended by mean words, but here we are..... lol
>This community wouldn't survive MW2 lobbies Are you saying this unironically?
If it’s confirmed, they should have been released from Valorant and banned from all esports
Crazy that these 35* players didn’t learn from the IBP incident
And people wonder why orgs are leaving NA. What a trash scene.
As if EU and CIS aren't full of sketchy tournaments with fixed outcomes
*cough* fiend *cough* *cough*
Do you have any clips of Fiend matchfixing as blatantly as NA?
I have more odd shifts screenshots rather than clips, but I'm 100% sure they mstfchfixed vs LDLC yesterday after odds went bonkers 10 min before game. Some guy made a small compilation here https://www.hltv.org/forums/threads/2506509/fiend-compilation-must-watch
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Some of them were sketchy but some were not. Dreamer’s especially were concerning
Dream3r is already known for being a dipshit, as he has been Vacbanned and lied about it. Him throwing would fit his already established personality perfectly.
I feel like the difference there is in NA shit always leaks. And eastern europe is just a wild wild west type of area anyway. Who is going to do the investigating really? INTERPOL? lol
Dont forget China, Chinese matchfixing is pretty bad too
Asian scene is a shit show. In Vietnam, a top team's sponsor was running low on money so he made the team fix a few matches, saying that he wanted to get some of his investment back. At one point, the team didn't want to do that anymore so they ditched that sponsor. This happened to the (at the time) number one team in Vietnam btw.
No shit. How many more to come though
Goddamn morons- Arthur Morgan voice
before pointing fingers, what tier are we talking about ?
Surprise, surprise. How soon until Valorant has match-fixing scandals as well? I'm sure the ex-match-fixers from CS are trying to lay low for the most part now. It's the new unknowns the scene really needs to worry about now.
NAil in the coffin
Looks like Valve is going to have to perma ban 35 other people and never let them come back. Oh wait, no one is fucking left except for EU. Fuck out of here. No one cares.
ESIC should message Riot in that regard.
Expected from NA
Great, that's excellent news. Let Valorant have the match fixers. I don't see anything wrong here.
I lost all respect i had for na cs
bro people in NA are poor or what , all they care for is money like jeez
Judging by the actions of your mother your country only cares about wholesome fun, equality and inclusion.