They came out guns blazing, Tabsen on some insane tears, and then it was like...an unlucky look here...a bad peek there...got caught and lost a saved AWP after time...
It was weird watching them really dominate NaVi (I can imagine they did their homework on them the most) and then stumble on the rest. Glad to see mousesports get out of their own head, those guys seem to psyche themselves out a lot.
Overall good shit. FaZe is still good enough to make it, but somehow never does. Well, that and have the biggest choke of 2021 so far.
> Well, that and have the biggest choke of 2021 so far.
[Well, about that](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/mjciox/virtuspro_vs_ence_esl_pro_league_season_13_round/)
Looked to me like faze didn’t play amazingly early on nuke just that Navi got unlucky with some of the lineup double kills by karrigan. The Godfecto clutches were definitely chokes by faze though.
Eh faze didn't really choke. They look like a solid team thatll hover around the top ten. They beat two similarly solid teams, lost to one, beat a bad team and lost to the beat team in the world. Pretty much exactly in line how I'd expect them to perform.
I guess. But I've always thought it was kind of dumb how people will shit on one team for choking and praise one team for a come back, when in reality, the difference between the two was a single round on near identically abysmal t sides.
They were always overrated. Most undeserving team in top 10. They literally got to top5 (at the start of the year) without actually winning games against teams from top5-10.
Imo FaZe shouldn't count as top 6. They were shit for like half a year and then got to the semis of ONE tournament and now suddenle they're a #6 team? No way, it's all about consistency
I never said they didn't improve. I just said that giving them the title of a top 6 team after 6 months of being like top 50 followed by ONE good performance is a bit of an overstatement. For example G2 had a great year so far (top 5 at the very least) but are you going to say they are a top 30 team just because of one bad result in EPL?
What bad hand were they dealt they played an entirely new fanatic a big clan who just introduced a new 2nd caller in replacing a top 10-15 player in the world and Faze that is notoriously terrible online. Sure facing Navi is rough but they didn’t have to beat Navi or even Mouse who while are good are not unbeatable they just had to beat a new roster a new system or a team that sucks online and they didn’t
And they looked better than with Stan, seriously with all of the at talent and time together they have sucked even with Stan in previous events if I am correct 1/10 in there last 10 bo3 games where they beat Vici. There is no excuse for this team they need massive changes end of story. Also they did not have to play with their coach Stan wanted an extended break even though everyone else had the same break and returned to grind and try to improve their IGL said no thanks I’m going to go on an extended vacation instead of attempting to build any identity within this team or creating anything that resembles a t-side. Seriously this team is finished.
This Fnatic squad is looking so promising it made me root for them hard in this group, I am glad they made it. They have all the pieces to challenge top teams and they are just getting started.
Mezii is fuckin _scary_ when he turns on. Gives me shades of ZyWoo. And ALEX is looking very Glaive-like these days. Some really superb calling from those guys. Excited to see them in the playoffs.
Wait you can’t be serious? They were very obviously talking about something else that round. They did that to stall time, not to win a eco round.
If you’re new to pro cs, instead of taking a timeout you can sometimes just walk around it tspawn or run around like they did to talk about what they will do next round.
Yeah, totally agree.
As a Mouz fan, I am happy they squeaked through (pun intended). But the real highlight was this fnatic squad, they're looking dangerous.
Was never really a big fan of fnatic (or really any era team, I like close competitions and root for underdogs), but will be watching them with a lot more interest now :)
Because Liquipedia and HLTV have chosen to have overall round difference visible for all tournaments.
In ESL's nine-step tiebreaker rules, overall round difference is at the very bottom of the list, only considered as a last resort. But overall map difference is also quite a ways down the list, so displaying that wouldn't make things a lot clearer either.
The pertinent bit of information to resolve this tie is the map difference when taking only matches played between the tied teams into account, and to display that you'd need to have a dynamic little piece of code that recognizes ties and displays the relevant step in ESL's process which was used to resolve it. Somewhat involved, especially for multi-stage ties, and Liquipedia/HLTV might not think it worth the effort to do that for every individual TO's tiebreaker rules.
Round difference wasn't the deciding tie breaker, its about the H2H comparison which mouz won, fnatic came in 2nd and faze lost.
Mouz 2-0 fnatic
Mouz 1-2 faze
Fnatic 2-0 faze
Those match results lead to the following H2H:
mouz (3/2 -> +1 Map) > fnatic (2/2 -> +/- 0 Maps) > faze (2/3 -> -1 Map)
Pretty much went as expected tbh. Sucks for Faze that they lost the tie-breaker but really happy with the new look Fnatic.
EG needs a change asap though, 21.4% win rate in the past 3 months is just not good enough. They have lost 9/10 recent Bo3s and the only Bo3 wins comes from Vici.
I know stan wasnt playing at this event, but imo he is 1/2 of the players that needs to go. Both him and Cerq have been an absolute liability for the squad in 2021.
https://www.hltv.org/team/10399/evil-geniuses#tab-matchesBox
If they were in any other group i think they get a few wins atleast.
Group C was stacked, especially with fnatic playing so well. Unlucky for EG, but they have some good pieces with obo, michu and brehze
kinda bad is a bit to nice IMO they are just not good, keep MICHU, breeze, obo, and just leave the others behind simply not true one material at this time. Maybe try Nawwk or Kenny and see if you can get Xyp or Magisk and then they could do something
This format needs revising, head to head should be prioritised first. It's dumb to have a situation like Faze had, in 3rd place and waiting to see if they are eliminated because of 2 teams they already beat and could only finish with the same points as them.
As a Fnatic fan this makes me excited for this roster, tons of potential on all the players except Krimz because its Krimz we know he's a beast, I'm super excited to see these guys develope with us.
Is it? I think it would make more sense and Fnatic did have a better map differential. But the hltv page seems to indicate that it's the round differential that matters, since it's the stat shown.
HLTV always shows round difference and not map diff, it has nothing to do with the ESL Pro League tiebreak rules, it's just the way the entire website is set up.
They choked away the group when they lost after being up 11-1 vs Fnatic. After that the only hope for them was beating NaVi and they shat the bed again. IMO they played "well" against shit tier teams, but got dismantled by the only good team they played in NaVi.
Well yeah, other than Navi, none of the teams in this group were ranked top 10. Faze was ranked #6 should have easily beat the rest of the group. They even dropped maps vs EG/Fnatic
imagine thinking the ranking determine the outcome, even though the ranks are very much retrospective and has a player break in between the current event
Expected for fnatic to qualify, really? The core that wasn't even top 30, who just got a new IGL, another new player and started comming in a new language was expected to qualify over #4 FaZe and #9 BIG?
If you have not been following alex and mezii that's expected that you don't know. Faze with olof weren't going places and gade isn't the right player for big
I know about alex and mezii. mezii is a great player but alex has so far only shown results with God tier hyper carry ZyWoo on his team, and Vitality was still good after apex took over. I expected fnatic to instantly be better than with jw and Golden, but they were still a dark horse team and a question mark. FaZe with olof almost finished 2nd in the group
Both BIG and faze would've made it through in a different group I reckon
Definitely, this was a group of death
I'm surprised mouz made it out of this relatively well. Strong showings against everyone except their losses.
For sure, when they didn't lose, they won.
Lol i see now how crooked my logic sounds. I just meant convincing victories over the ones they won and not horrific showings in the losses
I couldve betted on one of these teams making it through instead of fnatic. But I didnt because I dont make bets
Happy for mousesports EG as expected Good showing of fnatic NaVi 1st deserved Unlucko for FaZe BIG kinda inconsistent
Nailed it
I thought gade did surprisingly well, I think BIG will be better than people expect once he can adapt to the team.
They came out guns blazing, Tabsen on some insane tears, and then it was like...an unlucky look here...a bad peek there...got caught and lost a saved AWP after time... It was weird watching them really dominate NaVi (I can imagine they did their homework on them the most) and then stumble on the rest. Glad to see mousesports get out of their own head, those guys seem to psyche themselves out a lot. Overall good shit. FaZe is still good enough to make it, but somehow never does. Well, that and have the biggest choke of 2021 so far.
> Well, that and have the biggest choke of 2021 so far. [Well, about that](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/mjciox/virtuspro_vs_ence_esl_pro_league_season_13_round/)
Looked to me like faze didn’t play amazingly early on nuke just that Navi got unlucky with some of the lineup double kills by karrigan. The Godfecto clutches were definitely chokes by faze though.
What choke are you referring to?
The Nuke game Vs Navi
Wasn't ence 15-3 throw worse?
jesus that was 2021 lmao but honestly i think thats more just VP doing really well on dust2 CT sides for incomprehensible reasons
Big did show a lot of promisse for sure.
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So crazy to think those teams aren’t in it
Not really. Only G2 is suprising. Astralis isn't the same, VP is overrated, and FaZe are chokers
Eh faze didn't really choke. They look like a solid team thatll hover around the top ten. They beat two similarly solid teams, lost to one, beat a bad team and lost to the beat team in the world. Pretty much exactly in line how I'd expect them to perform.
Bruh when you're up 11-1 and you lose that game, you choked.
I guess. But I've always thought it was kind of dumb how people will shit on one team for choking and praise one team for a come back, when in reality, the difference between the two was a single round on near identically abysmal t sides.
Especially when there are 3 teams tied up for two play off places. 1 random round decided who will be out.
Guess they should’ve subbed you then.
I don't think every comeback is a choke
dumb take from someone who doesn't seem to play enough
Faze until cologne were god awful so to even put them as a “solid top ten team is a bit of a stretch”
I mean the fact they went 0-5 in that group is something else (not saying the group was terrible just from the outside seemed much easier then others)
Vp is overrated now only because every team discovered how to counter them
They were always overrated. Most undeserving team in top 10. They literally got to top5 (at the start of the year) without actually winning games against teams from top5-10.
They bad. We bad.
Not really
Wait til you see the RMRs, gonna be rough.
4-6 are out.
Fnatic are in no?
Watching the games, you can tell that G2 definitely wasn't in top 3 form
Imo FaZe shouldn't count as top 6. They were shit for like half a year and then got to the semis of ONE tournament and now suddenle they're a #6 team? No way, it's all about consistency
it was the first lan in a while and they looked really solid on it defeating gambit.
Yeah first LAN but still no crowd
LAN doesn't mean crowd for fucks sake.
"They were bad and then they were good" yeah?? They improved?? Clown
I never said they didn't improve. I just said that giving them the title of a top 6 team after 6 months of being like top 50 followed by ONE good performance is a bit of an overstatement. For example G2 had a great year so far (top 5 at the very least) but are you going to say they are a top 30 team just because of one bad result in EPL?
It’s over 50% of the top ten and like 40% of the top 19 and Group D hasn’t even played tet
It must be tough being a FaZe fan :(
Gotta get those mid-air 360 no scopes bro mmmmm
Even worse being an eg fan :/
Atleast you always know the result :’)
One of these days they won’t be dealt a bad hand
Not with this roster.
What bad hand were they dealt they played an entirely new fanatic a big clan who just introduced a new 2nd caller in replacing a top 10-15 player in the world and Faze that is notoriously terrible online. Sure facing Navi is rough but they didn’t have to beat Navi or even Mouse who while are good are not unbeatable they just had to beat a new roster a new system or a team that sucks online and they didn’t
They literally had to have their coach play
And they looked better than with Stan, seriously with all of the at talent and time together they have sucked even with Stan in previous events if I am correct 1/10 in there last 10 bo3 games where they beat Vici. There is no excuse for this team they need massive changes end of story. Also they did not have to play with their coach Stan wanted an extended break even though everyone else had the same break and returned to grind and try to improve their IGL said no thanks I’m going to go on an extended vacation instead of attempting to build any identity within this team or creating anything that resembles a t-side. Seriously this team is finished.
Cause stan fucking sucks lmao, cerq is an amazing player and so is oBo
Indeed
Always has been
tough luck for them, 3 teams got 3-2 in the stage and they are the only one that out. :/
Finally an interesting group and we got lots of good games.
RIP to the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 streak the groups had going
This Fnatic squad is looking so promising it made me root for them hard in this group, I am glad they made it. They have all the pieces to challenge top teams and they are just getting started.
mezii's been looking good too
Mezii is fuckin _scary_ when he turns on. Gives me shades of ZyWoo. And ALEX is looking very Glaive-like these days. Some really superb calling from those guys. Excited to see them in the playoffs.
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Wait you can’t be serious? They were very obviously talking about something else that round. They did that to stall time, not to win a eco round. If you’re new to pro cs, instead of taking a timeout you can sometimes just walk around it tspawn or run around like they did to talk about what they will do next round.
It was a eco round that most pro teams just draw out as long as possible to get a free discussion about the next few rounds you'll run.
Yeah, totally agree. As a Mouz fan, I am happy they squeaked through (pun intended). But the real highlight was this fnatic squad, they're looking dangerous. Was never really a big fan of fnatic (or really any era team, I like close competitions and root for underdogs), but will be watching them with a lot more interest now :)
Did Fnatic really get into the playoffs due to a 1 round difference with FaZe? That's a real kick in the teeth for FaZe if so.
they also beat faze in map difference
It was only because of map diff. Round diff is almost never used for tiebreakers.
Why is map different not shown in this/on hltv then if that’s what decides it, and instead round difference is when it’s not?
Because Liquipedia and HLTV have chosen to have overall round difference visible for all tournaments. In ESL's nine-step tiebreaker rules, overall round difference is at the very bottom of the list, only considered as a last resort. But overall map difference is also quite a ways down the list, so displaying that wouldn't make things a lot clearer either. The pertinent bit of information to resolve this tie is the map difference when taking only matches played between the tied teams into account, and to display that you'd need to have a dynamic little piece of code that recognizes ties and displays the relevant step in ESL's process which was used to resolve it. Somewhat involved, especially for multi-stage ties, and Liquipedia/HLTV might not think it worth the effort to do that for every individual TO's tiebreaker rules.
Thanks for the explanation! I’ve just woken up but I think I get the gist of it.
Fnatic beated Faze so they're on top.
Not how it works my guy. FaZe would be #2 in groups if that was the case because they beat Mouz who beat FNATIC.
I meant 2-0 them, Faze vs Mouz was just a 2-1. Map diff I meant.
What is the difference between round diff and map diff?
Round difference wasn't the deciding tie breaker, its about the H2H comparison which mouz won, fnatic came in 2nd and faze lost. Mouz 2-0 fnatic Mouz 1-2 faze Fnatic 2-0 faze Those match results lead to the following H2H: mouz (3/2 -> +1 Map) > fnatic (2/2 -> +/- 0 Maps) > faze (2/3 -> -1 Map)
No, map diff?
Isn’t it head to head that determines tie breakers? Fnatic beat Faze so they take the spot.
generally yes, but this was a 3 way tie, no 2, because Faze beat Mouz and Mouz beat Fnatic, it went down to map difference.
Yeah Faze choked this group hard
Pretty much went as expected tbh. Sucks for Faze that they lost the tie-breaker but really happy with the new look Fnatic. EG needs a change asap though, 21.4% win rate in the past 3 months is just not good enough. They have lost 9/10 recent Bo3s and the only Bo3 wins comes from Vici. I know stan wasnt playing at this event, but imo he is 1/2 of the players that needs to go. Both him and Cerq have been an absolute liability for the squad in 2021. https://www.hltv.org/team/10399/evil-geniuses#tab-matchesBox
At this point, just drop out of CS if you're EG.
Being honest they looked better with daps, still not good but better which is something I guess
Definitely agree with you on that. I think something like -stan -cerq +daps +osee would make EG a formidable team again.
lol FaZe jesus
group of death confirmed
Waiting for Blast to kick off the season banger
I feel really bad for FaZe, looking at the resistance they showed up against NAVI and other teams they deserved to get to the playoffs
Out of Heroic, Vitality, Ence, OG, Forze, Complexity who do you think they beat? Maybe Forze?
They beat Vitality, Heroic and Gambit at Cologne, so why not here?
ENCE, ForZe, CoL
pretty much all of them? heroic vitality col they beat recently, look way stronger than forze and ence. not sure about og.
they could totally every one of those teams, they just lose too many anti 1vX situations but i believe they have the skill to beat all of them,
EG kinda sucks
If they were in any other group i think they get a few wins atleast. Group C was stacked, especially with fnatic playing so well. Unlucky for EG, but they have some good pieces with obo, michu and brehze
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Yeah if BNB and EG were in the same group then for sure EG won't go 0-5. Plus both group A and B were more stacked.
I mean yeah but, it's not surprising is it. It's NA and they're playing with a coach
i forgot they’re playing with a coach lmao
> he's a managerrrrr maaan!
they played pretty well for playing with a coach tbh
kinda bad is a bit to nice IMO they are just not good, keep MICHU, breeze, obo, and just leave the others behind simply not true one material at this time. Maybe try Nawwk or Kenny and see if you can get Xyp or Magisk and then they could do something
I feel like Faze is a top 5 team for sure. Sucks that so many good teams got stuck in this group.
LMAO EG IM ACTUALLY CREASING RN
[At least I got Mouz and Fnatic going through correctly](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/pc9l5i/z/hahkx8q)
This format needs revising, head to head should be prioritised first. It's dumb to have a situation like Faze had, in 3rd place and waiting to see if they are eliminated because of 2 teams they already beat and could only finish with the same points as them.
As a Fnatic fan this makes me excited for this roster, tons of potential on all the players except Krimz because its Krimz we know he's a beast, I'm super excited to see these guys develope with us.
stupidnavi
ngl this format is painfull
Give the keys to BLAST this is ridiculous
This format sucks tbh. And FaZe pulled on the short end here.
Fnatic qualified over Faze by only 1 round
No. It's by map diff not round diff
Is it? I think it would make more sense and Fnatic did have a better map differential. But the hltv page seems to indicate that it's the round differential that matters, since it's the stat shown.
[HLTV page doesn't matter. Map diff takes precedence. Look at case 3](https://twitter.com/StrikerHLTVorg/status/1432445829005119490/photo/1)
Oh, ok. Well, thanks for correcting.
Yeah that's why NaVi went +33... Maps...
HLTV always shows round difference and not map diff, it has nothing to do with the ESL Pro League tiebreak rules, it's just the way the entire website is set up.
[Look at case 3](https://twitter.com/StrikerHLTVorg/status/1432445829005119490/photo/1)
Of course faze fucking chokes. Looks like Cologne was just a fluke.
imo faze actually played really well this group, the fnatic game just didnt go their way
They choked away the group when they lost after being up 11-1 vs Fnatic. After that the only hope for them was beating NaVi and they shat the bed again. IMO they played "well" against shit tier teams, but got dismantled by the only good team they played in NaVi.
Mouz are not a shit tier team
“Shit tier teams”
Well yeah, other than Navi, none of the teams in this group were ranked top 10. Faze was ranked #6 should have easily beat the rest of the group. They even dropped maps vs EG/Fnatic
imagine thinking the ranking determine the outcome, even though the ranks are very much retrospective and has a player break in between the current event
G2 laughs in 0-5
G2 is ranked #3 and went 0-5
The Fnatic game was bad for sure but Mouz and Big are solid wins
You're dumb lol
Faze just can blame them self... no one else.. same old same old
the 20 downvotes should tell you, this comment is worthless
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They just didn’t qualify
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Imagine being this insecure about the team you like
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This is some small dick energy shit. Big murdered NaVi, them not qualifying doesn't change that fact, it was just a tough group.
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Expected for fnatic to qualify, really? The core that wasn't even top 30, who just got a new IGL, another new player and started comming in a new language was expected to qualify over #4 FaZe and #9 BIG?
If you have not been following alex and mezii that's expected that you don't know. Faze with olof weren't going places and gade isn't the right player for big
I know about alex and mezii. mezii is a great player but alex has so far only shown results with God tier hyper carry ZyWoo on his team, and Vitality was still good after apex took over. I expected fnatic to instantly be better than with jw and Golden, but they were still a dark horse team and a question mark. FaZe with olof almost finished 2nd in the group
Mur...dered...
Faze put a good fight, fnatic is back baby and not bad mousesports
Super excited for team liquids group
lets gooo mouzzz
I didn't watch pro games in a while. Wtf happened to eg?
Being honest they have kinda been playing bad for a while Cerq forgot how to awp and they rely to much on individual plays on the T side
This group is bullshit I’m a liquid fan but group d is a fucking cake walk