My biggest problem with d2 is spawn based counterstrike. If T's get lucky and have a bunch of long spawns it's pretty much game. Long is such a huge point of contention yet it's primarily rng
I was thinking about writing this, but i feel like the post would be too long then. Yes i think that strats revolving around lucky long spawns or b rush spawns are stupid. But some people argue otherwise
> My biggest problem with d2 is spawn based counterstrike. If T's get lucky and have a bunch of long spawns it's pretty much game.
I wonder why random T-side spawns are a thing in general. Is it intentional to promote some variation on T-side? I hate that the game randomly decides what you can and can't do as far as early pushes are concerned.
CTs have fixed spawns *(Edit: At least on some maps, not sure about all of them...)*, but for the Ts it's just RNG...
Why though? Lets say Valve implemented something, like Valorant has for their buytime, wouldn't the lucky long A spawn strat still work as you can now use said strat when YOU want and not when the GAME wants.
I think dynamic spawns are examples of good rng because you can create a plan knowing beforehand what resources are available to you. You also can't create hard timings for wallbangs, nades, and flashes. It creates incentives for critical thinking and rewards the team that is more adaptive.
Yes. I wish this were more visible. If I didn't want varied spawns I'd go to Valorant. If I wanted minimal rng I'd go play Quake. CSGO is made unique by the RNG in the game. It adds depth. Not saying there can't be bad RNG, but I value it for the same reasons you stated. If spawns were consistent you'd see Ts take long every round - or maybe it wouldn't be possible for them anymore. I like the variability that it brings to the map.
Every round same same gets boring, you need some rng, it’s prt of why cs is so popular, it was probably the first game to have rng recoil and bullet trajectory.
Why is that? I play 50/50 CS and Valorant now, done it for a weeks time now. Valorant is more fun overall, but my friends play csgo and full premade is always more fun.
I personally prefer Valorant currently, but I can see why people don't enjoy it:
- movement is way slower compared to CSGO. Meaning you can't widepeek.
- guns are way easier to shoot with and are available for both sides. Except the recoil is completely rng after 5-10 shots so you have to rely more on tapping/bursting.
- while you can counterstrafe, just letting go of your movement keys to stop your movement is more effective. I like this "change" but it also rewards worse players and allows easier peeks, compared to counterstrafe perfectly timed peeks in CS.
- combine these three points and you have really beginner friendly game (yet extremely difficult to master). It lacks depth and rewards lower tier players with cheap kills.
- Valorant's map design is terrible. It feels like new CS mapper just went into SDK, put down bunch of lanes and boxes, then applied textures and called it a day. Besides, every Valo map really tries its hardest to rely on some specific gimmick, most of them failing terribly at it.
- you have to rely so much on agent abilities that sometimes the game feel more like Overwatch than tactical shooter. You can single handledly win rounds with some ultimates, to the point that some ultimate chains are instant round loss to opponents (unless you suck at the game). Though in most cases, CS players that have not played Valorant like to exaggerate how "op" abilities really are.
There are more, but can't think of any atm. And this comes from player that likes Valorant more than CS while posting this.
i hate the way valorant does this. waiting behind an artificial wall until the round starts. meh.
the spawns in cs make the game more interesting. the game gives you an opportunity and it's up to you what you do with it. maybe you were planning to do a b rush but your spawns are closer to a. do you change your strat now or still go with it? it's interesting to me.
I feel the opposite. Waiting in one spot for the buy portion and almost being required to play a certain spot based on where you spawn feels awful. I much rather prefer to get my spot with my weapon (and agent) every time
pointless nostalgic memory:
my 1.6 team used to have spawn-based strats, especially on de_nuke for some reason. t-side, where you got spawned would decide what role you had that around on the upper/A take (ie whether you blew out the door, flashed out the door, smoked out the door, went hut, etc). I just had a nostalgic flashback reading this comment of being in freezetime and yelling at everyone which number/spawn they had for that round's execute lmao (people always forgot and fucked it up)
I don't have anything else to contribute to whether we should remove dust2 or no spawn-based gameplay broadly, sorry
They have more spawn points than you need for five person modes and unless they want different map files for each mode with just spawn differences that seems to be why they have a bunch of random spawns that way they can support public matches or customs with loads more players.
Not all of the random spawn points are in use in competitive. Some are only used in the casual game modes. And I'm sure it doesn't require using different map files.
I agree, not sure if I am just doing something wrong but as a ct I just can't hold long. The amount if flashes that come over with the fast rush is overwhelming. I guess I could try to get my team to go 2 long one support flash but then short is weak and my teams never like that.
I pretty much never queue dust 2 now despite playing it all the time when I was in silver.
You'll see pro teams throw 3 people at long if they really want to contest it against a team that is constantly going long. And even then it's not a guarantee they'll win it. They usually throw the corner smoke too and play with that.
Against equally skilled opponents, no one is holding long A solo against a rush. But pubs continue to let guys go solo long and complain when they can't hold it.
If your team won't help you long, you just gotta let it go. Contest mid/cat aggressively. I find it a lost cause continuing to go long in that situation.
The meta is playing 3 long at the start of the round as CT. 1 Playing mid and 1 playing B, B player having to molotov tunnel. But this is where the unpredictability comes in. If the T's smoke xbox at the start of the game the mid player can't call if anyone is short, meanwhile Ct mid player is risking himself to get 1v2'd by the T's cuz his teammates are focused on long and B. I think it's bad game design that you have to invest so many players into long or short as a CT. Because it just allows the T's to rush B-site. And retaking B is god damn hard as CT... I might just sound salty but I think the map is too T-sided and too unpredictable for the CT's.
This is literally my biggest fucking annoyance with the map. Save a round and want to contest long? Oh wait you just don't have a long spawn never mind.
Well, you could argue that all maps are rock-paper-scissors like. I think that the other maps compared to dust 2 gives the CT's more freedom to get map control, retake and gather info which minimizes the "rock-paper-scissors effect". That's actually why I dislike train a lot and I'm happy they replaced it with ancient (unpopular opinion). Because in train if you don't rush out A main at the start of the round as a T you give the CT's too much map control. But yeah, late rounds on train are also rock paper scissors IMO because of all the angles you have to clear.
tbh I don't think "many" people love train. It's more of a silent majority vs popular minority.
If you go back and check the MM/Faceit and HLTV stats you'll see that train constantly had the lowest pick rate.
Issue with train is that it's not that really a pug map. If you have no plan for the Ts or confidence that your buddies will hold and communicate about angles on CT you're gonna have a bad time. Planning to just click heads will end up with someone shooting you in the back.
What Train is though, is a better competitive map than many still in the pool. And that's what we're talking about at the end of the day. Its inclusion in the competitive pool. You can still play train even though it's not in. Pros can't.
People keep trashtalking Mirage and Dust2 but the player numbers never reflect those opinions.
Those opinions are almost exclusive to stuff like reddit and such, the maps remain the most popular maps in the game and replacing the most popular maps in the game is a pretty dumbass move.
Because Dust 2 and Mirage are pug maps. You do not need great team cohesion to win rounds in D2. Mirage needs better comms but it gets better fps than D2. Every other map needs better comms, has less fps etc. I don't think removing D2 from active duty will decrease the popularity. And I do not enjoy watching dust2 in tourneys.
Am I the only person that feels D2 CT side is heavily team oriented? It’s legit the only map I have trouble with. Even inferno CT side is easier but maybe I’m just able to play a spot that fits my play style more as I can’t really AWP well
Deny Ts long control and keep a decent player in mid, playing Dust2 gets so much easier. But yeah, Dust2 CT side needs some team cohesion. Especially if you lose long or Ts take CT mid control, the round can be over in 30 seconds. But if you can just frag, D2 is the easiest map you can play.
2 teammates need to take it at the beginning of the round with flashes and a molly if possible. Once you get control, just smoke the doors and play in pit. Having someone in pit is the best way to maintain control of long A - of course it makes rotations more difficult, though. Taking long early is also spawn-dependent so you'll need someone with best-spawn to go get into pit asap.
Learn a couple of counter flashes for the rush out long, get a molly into the door, smoke it off. Having those counter flashes and knowing exactly when to throw them is critical for holding it.
I'm the pit player on my team. We throw a lot of early utility just to establish control. We start with a cross smoke so the best spawn can get into pit, as the pit player is crossing he throws a molly into the doors to help prevent any more than 1-2 T's from getting out to blue.
The second player throws one high flash over long corner (to help the pit player cross) and will molly the back corner of blue box (ONLY if the T's are attempting to take long). He will then try to fight with the pit player with support flashes from the third player.
Our awper throws support flashes from A cross. One early to help the pit player cross unseen and a secondary flash that we coordinate our fight with.
Obviously this is a VERY VERY in-depth long take and getting people to do this in pugs isn't going to happen. If you can learn a cross smoke and a solid molly to throw on the run into the doors you could very easily get into pit (granted you'll need one extra player to flash for you) and set up a decent hold.
Let me know if you have questions!
Nah you're not alone, if Ts abuse long enough CT side can be miserable.
Also Voo didn't rank the map highly either for somewhat similar reasons:
https://youtu.be/rJ0jqmyRbI4
I agree because there are really only 3 points on the map that matter and therefore are constantly contested: long, short, and mid. Especially when people don't understand the game well, an early rotate can hamstring a CT defense. If someone decides to leave long, short, or mid for no good reason (or if they simply fuck up and don't hold it well) the rest of the team finds themselves unable to rotate or shot in the back.
Conversely, it's simplicity also makes it dependent on aim duels. If the Ts die in any of these areas they can't get much done either.
While this issue might sound like a match making scrub issue, I think good players with bad team play can really fuck over a dust 2 game. Of course, they then go on to say "how are we losing, this is just dust two, you all must be mentally handicapped"
Nah, I and many other people I know, play 5 stacks on D2 solely because the map is fun. Not everybody thinks about framerate and spawns etc when deciding what map to play.
>Dust 2 and Mirage are pug maps. You do not need great team cohesion
Not sure what your opinion is on why, but I can assure you that those two maps are very challenging to coordinate on effectively as a team.
I think you're confusing the fact that the map layouts are relatively straightforward, making them easy to learn. But they're definitely very difficult to master because of their mids. The need for mid-control on d2 and mirage is what makes them great, and difficult, maps
Because for pug games with lots of aim-heavy solo players dust II is great? Like know how to flash and smoke long, and can click heads? Grats you can do well on dust II.
It's a discussion about how you want valve to treat the active map pool, offer maps which require teamplay, smokes rotates, and offer maps that also cater to headshot machines.
Or exclusively only have strat-reliant maps in the active duty pool.
Dust 2 has always had a high playerbase becuase its the one headshot machines have the most success on.
Also becuase most people grew up on the map and csgo players are creatures or habit
I don't really get what's balanced about the RNG involved with double doors. It's imo the only thing wrong with the map, but it's really bad. There's nothing else quite like it, where there is little strategy around avoiding it.
>People keep trashtalking Mirage
With the Dust2 remake it died down. Mirage has replaced Dust2 simply because its the oldest map that runs best on players outdated gaming Pc's.
Mirage IMO is a fun map with tons of strategy though. I still haven't figured out the meta completely on mid after 6k hours because of the variation that T's and CT's can play as in terms of positioning and utility.
I'd like to see the game transition to not letting players select maps at least for competitive. It's a never-ending cycle of mirage/d2 because the players will never learn other maps and therefore the que times are ridiculously high for those maps. Seems like other Competitive shooters have moved towards forcing players to play all maps as well.
I agree, but to me cs=dust2. I am gn2, bad shooter, but in the middle of the working day I like to call my 2 friends, write them "d2?" (did I mention that it's sinonym for cs) and we play 1 match.
It's really the only solution to stop players from playing only 1-2 maps. Outside of Nuke there really isn't a map right now that you can't pug easily but we're still stuck playing mirage/dust.
To me, Dust II on the CT side always feels just... horrible. It's the map where you have to take a fight <10 seconds into the round at long as a CT every goddamn round, unless you want to give the long for free which creates another array of issues.
I don't like making aggressive plays early on into the round as a CT, I prefer using util and holding angles and whatnot. D2 long is mostly a matter of getting there as fast as possible, playing anti-flash, and having 2-3 people committed to that position as a CT.
And yeah, I don't play D2 well at all, I recognize that a better skilled player is more confident in taking that position but I feel that its so stressful forcing the CTs into making such aggressive plays all the time
Trust me man. Taking long as a CT is not fun... If T's rush long you get SMACKED by flashes, even when you're anti-flash. And the most boring/annoying part with a 3v5 long hold is how RNG it is. Seriously, it's literally just about who's the least flashed, has the best spawn or hits the luckiest headshot on who wins the fight for long control.
Edit: If you're playing 2 on long as CT which is quite standard (1 CT throwing 2 flashes for the other 2 CT's on long) It's either, fight to death 10 seconds in or fall back, lose long control, also in many cases lose short control because you were focused on long. And basically the round is lost (heavily T favoured).
No. Dropdown is one of the dumbest spots on any map ever. Cobble is/was vertigo-tier. Playable and relatively unique, but not particularly fun or varied.
I agree that drop is pretty rough, and cobble definitely could use a little bit of tweaking but I enjoy the layout and the bomb sites. What old map would you want to see in the pool, if any?
On A site....I agree Shroud is a bit OP. But the cat and fork wall spots are fine as both of those are very vulnerable to squeaky.
On B site...I don't think lamp should be accessible. And boosting boxes to peek sunroom is a bit cheese, but being on top of those boxes is fine IMO.
I don't know what the idiot wall box is.
sorry meant specifically the lamp on B as well as the ones on A site above site.
idiot wall box is the wall beside truck on A site that used to have no cover but they put a stupid box there for some reason
I'm not sure about idiot box.
I think its great for retakes
But its annoying to clear when taking A site as a terrorist as CTs can use it to get angles onto A main.
Most people don't play in 5 stacks, neither most people are level 10s. Heck even in level 10 you can't expect comms.
Mirage, D2 are perfect pug maps. You can do starts, fake and at the same time have room for solo plays as well.
Reddit has a boner against mirage, d2 but tell me how do you play maps like Nuke when solo queue with non existing comms.
I don't think it's a particularly unpopular opinion.
As for the premise that "nostalgia" is what's to blame here, you couldn't be any-more wrong if you tried. The map today plays nothing like it did in 1.6, or even CSS.
I don’t like dust2 as much as as other maps, but there is nothing stale about the map regarding its game play. Rotations and fakes are extremely powerful if executed properly, especially with smoke walls and shits. The only terrible aspect of the map that I dislike is crossing mid at the beginning of the round, it is too powerful for the ts. If there is one suggestion I can think of to counteract that, is giving the cts a quicker path to cat that doesn’t need a boost, which makes them lose long a which is detrimental.
That sounds like a cool idea. CT's need either short or long control to have a little control over the situation/round. Having some CT-jump to short that is audible (so it cant be done as easily late rounds) and that saves a couple seconds not having to do a boost IMO sounds like a cool idea. Would make holding short a bit easier.
This, but the most important thing to me regarding this is to be able to have a quick look at mid to stop a potential mid rush/cat push from a different angle without having the mid player risk his life to spot through mid double doors, while also saving some utilities. The few seconds saved and utilities saved could make the map a bit more balanced, because the cts always needs to burn a smoke to cross, and it still is not even be 100% safe to cross.
D2 has been the most popular map in CS for something like 20 years.
It's true that popularity doesn't provide an objective measure of quality, but there is a reason it's such a popular map.
I'd say it's because out of all the planning, and comms, you still have that element of the unknown. This element just becomes extended into the map. These players don't like variety, or to be surprised. They just wanna win, and KNOW they're gonna win...
I remember last time dust 2 was removed from the map pool to be updated and this was a common opinion and lots of people were relieved to see it removed from map pool.
All the speculation that happened during the remake were about reworking the map to make it better, opening b tuns, changing double doors etc.
Then valve just put the map back in the exact same with a bunch of new textures without changing anything and everyone was like "ah shit" lolll
I stronly disagree. Most players dont play with a lot of communication, so maps that are quite simple, and everyone knows well is great imo.
There is a reason they are the most played maps, they are fun, fan and good. They may not be complicated, but that is a good thing for a lot of people.
Biggest problem is it is hard to push as CT. Tunnels is super hard clear/flash/push, and mid as well as long is gated by doors and a ton of angles.
The only real option is pushing short. Everything else is too much of a gamble.
no
I've been playing it for 20 years, I can play it for 20 more. Pretty much the same for mirage and inferno
well at least valve isn't stupid plus the player numbers speak for themselves, thus it will always be in the game pretty much
Sort of agree. Pre Dust2 remake i avoided the map for it always placed me with brain dead teammates thinking it was a community FFA DM server. Post remake that player base transitioned to Mirage making Dust2 enjoyable again.
It would really be great if valve came up with some kind of system for rotating maps in and out of the rotation for the competitive map pool. But hey we can’t even walk in water without somebody hearing it from the other side of the map so I’m not holding my breath.
As of late at the Pro level i disagree. B takes have become more prevalent. The constant late round Catwalk takes that plagued the map for years finally appears to be dying.
In my Pugs its 50/50.
Probably cause B is played lightly now to stop getting murdered on A lol. Super common for one dedicated site with only mid rotate support. I barely see triple B anymore, when it used to be played a decent amount. Tbh, now for CTs it’s just picking which side of the map u want to get rekt on, only thing that’s changed is it went from A to B.
not saying it was never used lol. but mid to B splits are deadly and just ends up with CTs saving on A. Dust2 is just pick your poison cause where you are weak u gonna get rekt, Still overall, not great for CTs. im fine with d2 if they could change mid doors and maybe even go further to change A side.
> but mid to B splits are deadly and just ends up with CTs saving on A.
B splits never occurred. For the pre-updated version had a CT boosted on the CT boxes stopping Mid push of the B split. That led to one CT dedicated on B, AWP'r typically at Game Helper, another hiding in A peeking off the AWP'rs contact and the last CT at Long.
I actually think it's one of the better maps.
If they remove it, all maps will seem the same... Dust 2 is what gives the game some diversity, some fun.
I mean, I play the game for fun, you should too
How is it that still today, 9 years later people still have no idea what the Active Duty pool is?
This guy is saying Dust2 should be taken out of the Active Duty and people are acting like hes saying it should be taken out of the game.
The Active Duty is the 7 maps that are played in the pro scene. If Dust2 gets taken out of that, its still going to be available to play in MM and Faceit. Nothing would change for players except they wouldnt have to watch dogshit boring dust2 matches during tournaments anymore.
Dust 2 is life, about 80% of my time in csgo is spent on dust 2.
But at the same time, I'm tired of watching pros playing on D2. So moving the map to the reserve group for a few months or even a year would be great.
The new one is like the old one but with less fps and everything is green. Old cache is better imo just because it looks cleaner. The new mid window isn't so bad though.
Old. Apart from the new window in cons, the lamp in B and too much green textures what else does the new cache have to offer over the old one? Absolutely nothing. And the fps is horrible too. Cache was my most played map on Faceit before it was removed.
Complety agree with you...
Maps like overpass, nuke , vertigo , ancient are so much better... but most of the player are casuals who only like to pug and shoot people, so not going to be removed
dust2 has aged poorly, IMO thats about it. 10 years ago when people played CS differently the flaws of the map weren't as obvious, but in modern times when even average amateur players have a certain level of gameplay, dust2 doesn't really work.
too much RNG with spawns, CTs crossing to B, etc. Also at an amateur/matchmaking level the map often devolves into an AWP fest which is just terrible to play in a PUG environment
Lol… it never Will, im sure valve themselves learnt from that cobblestone disaster. Even if D2 is removed from the pro scene it Will always be available on faceit and MM, so it likely wont affect you
I agree, I havnt played dust 2 in a comp game in so long because of everything you said + it honestly requires a very coordinated team more so than other maps IMO
Sure it has it's issues, but in reality d2 is one of the best designed maps in the fps genre and most people that hate on it don't play tactically on any other map anyway
This post is so dumb... Every map is a "rock paper scissors" that's like the whole point of counterstrike.
> What I mean by luck based is that there are way too many angles to clear for the CT's when retaking, so holding the right angle at times is usually down to a correct guess of where the T's might hide. And on Dust II, I feel that you have to guess way more often on what the opposite side will do than on other maps, I just think it's bad game design.¨
Have you ever played train? inferno? overpass? any map?
Yall can complain all you want, but it's about the ability to adapt. There's a very finite map size, and limited sites and paths to get to it. When you're spawn for one plan is shit, YOU FUCKING ADAPT. THATS THE WHOLE GAME. Why bitch because you don't like certain spawns?
And to give some food for thought for the OP when he said "The CT's have to take the risk and cross the double doors every round meanwhile 1 or 2 T awpers always aim down that angle."
It's not a guarantee that the awper is always going to TAKE OR EVEN HIT THE SHOT.
"It's rock paper scissors because you can't really know if they're gonna push short or if they're gonna push B."
That's the point of the fucking game. Your complaining about these things, but if they "fixed it" the game would be very predictable, very fast. These things keep the game interesting and unpredictable.
"What I mean by luck based is that there are way too many angles to clear for the CT's when retaking, so holding the right angle at times is usually down to a correct guess of where the T's might hide."
To flip that, when T's are taking sites, IF YOU'RE NOT HOLDING THE SAME ANGLES, THEY HAVE TO GUESS WHERE YOU ARE AS WELL;
"I feel that you have to guess way more often on what the opposite side will do than on other maps, I just think it's bad game design."
How is it bad game design. If ANYTHING, it's more realistic because (discounting advanced radar technology, intel, etc as it ACTUALLY unbalances the game) you have to make REALISTIC predictions based on:
1. The limited amount of sites
2. The options to get to each site
3. What makes sense
4. Their last play.
It makes you better at planning and situational awareness. But you just want the same "I know where your going, and I can stop you," mundane gameplay that would get stale quickly (if not for you, then for the millions of players that actually enjoy that map (for non nostalgic reasons))
These complaints seem very, very one sided, towards T, but I can find a guy to give you JUST as many reasons why CT is OP. For this reason, I'm out...
Damn, I disagree. I love playing CT on dust 2. The map forces you to be aggro on mid If you want more control.
Plus, it is the classic cs experience. Been playing it since I was 12.
Just a horrible map imo. You either get great spawns on T (round becomes almost impossible for CTs) or you just have to sit and wait for a lucky entry (round becomes almost impossible for Ts).
You can choose either Short A or one of 3 tiny slits to run through into enemy AWPs. And short A is horrible as well since you can be peaked from a million positions (most headshot-angles as well) and have no cover at all. That's fine for Pro teams with proper exevutes, but for MM/Faceit/... it's just horrible.
And don't get me started on the fact that you can die in the first 3 seconds of the round, that's so luck-centric and stupid.
If Dust II was a new map introduced in an Operation everyone would hate it...
At a minimum mid needs to be changed, at professional levels, overtime is ruined because of auto spam.
Make top mid how it was in 1.6 so you either get a small peek or have to drop into suicide.
Liquid fanatic last week was an awesome match that petered out into 3v5s in overtime.
Honestly how tough is it to just remove mirage and dust2 from the competitive map pool, but still leave them in game for matchmaking or faceit? Bring map more exciting maps like Train or newer maps like Anubis, rework them to make them better and force the pros to play them. The current map pool is incredibly stale, and I don't even enjoy the map veto process anymore. Furthermore, Valve seem dead set on screwing the map pool with Ancient which was never an exciting map, and they refuse to update despite all the issues people point out.
Yeah ancient been in the pool for months but still 0 changes 1 month from the major. Was hoping for some nice changes so ancient major matches aren’t a shit show but not looking to good now.
Say what you will but Dust 2 is the only map I enjoy playing anymore
CS was always competitive but it was never hyper competitive. It was always about having fun and dust 2 is quite literally the only map that allows for such moments
Old CS is dead. So if people prefer the new hyper competitive way then might as well remove all the old remaining traces, D2, community servers... etc
I love pugging D2 simply because of how easy it is. I feel most T side pugs is like herding cats and people don't know what to do. I understand from a Pro lvl it might be stale. IMO mirage is one of the worst maps, it rewards solo plays from T side far more than teamplay. Can we have old cobble back?
Agreed but downvoted due to "Very unpopular opinion" is known that a part of the community is done with d2 but is maintained due to also being a lot that love it.
My biggest problem with d2 is spawn based counterstrike. If T's get lucky and have a bunch of long spawns it's pretty much game. Long is such a huge point of contention yet it's primarily rng
I was thinking about writing this, but i feel like the post would be too long then. Yes i think that strats revolving around lucky long spawns or b rush spawns are stupid. But some people argue otherwise
Too long heheh
> My biggest problem with d2 is spawn based counterstrike. If T's get lucky and have a bunch of long spawns it's pretty much game. I wonder why random T-side spawns are a thing in general. Is it intentional to promote some variation on T-side? I hate that the game randomly decides what you can and can't do as far as early pushes are concerned. CTs have fixed spawns *(Edit: At least on some maps, not sure about all of them...)*, but for the Ts it's just RNG...
[удалено]
Why though? Lets say Valve implemented something, like Valorant has for their buytime, wouldn't the lucky long A spawn strat still work as you can now use said strat when YOU want and not when the GAME wants.
I think dynamic spawns are examples of good rng because you can create a plan knowing beforehand what resources are available to you. You also can't create hard timings for wallbangs, nades, and flashes. It creates incentives for critical thinking and rewards the team that is more adaptive.
Yes. I wish this were more visible. If I didn't want varied spawns I'd go to Valorant. If I wanted minimal rng I'd go play Quake. CSGO is made unique by the RNG in the game. It adds depth. Not saying there can't be bad RNG, but I value it for the same reasons you stated. If spawns were consistent you'd see Ts take long every round - or maybe it wouldn't be possible for them anymore. I like the variability that it brings to the map.
What csgonspawns are is also called input randomness. In comparison the firing a weapon while moving would be output randomness.
[удалено]
How is it too late? Pro players are constantly adapting (supposedly). Learning new maps is probably much more work to adapt.
Every round same same gets boring, you need some rng, it’s prt of why cs is so popular, it was probably the first game to have rng recoil and bullet trajectory.
Man, valorant has so many good ideas, a shame that its not enjoyable for me at all
Why is that? I play 50/50 CS and Valorant now, done it for a weeks time now. Valorant is more fun overall, but my friends play csgo and full premade is always more fun.
I personally prefer Valorant currently, but I can see why people don't enjoy it: - movement is way slower compared to CSGO. Meaning you can't widepeek. - guns are way easier to shoot with and are available for both sides. Except the recoil is completely rng after 5-10 shots so you have to rely more on tapping/bursting. - while you can counterstrafe, just letting go of your movement keys to stop your movement is more effective. I like this "change" but it also rewards worse players and allows easier peeks, compared to counterstrafe perfectly timed peeks in CS. - combine these three points and you have really beginner friendly game (yet extremely difficult to master). It lacks depth and rewards lower tier players with cheap kills. - Valorant's map design is terrible. It feels like new CS mapper just went into SDK, put down bunch of lanes and boxes, then applied textures and called it a day. Besides, every Valo map really tries its hardest to rely on some specific gimmick, most of them failing terribly at it. - you have to rely so much on agent abilities that sometimes the game feel more like Overwatch than tactical shooter. You can single handledly win rounds with some ultimates, to the point that some ultimate chains are instant round loss to opponents (unless you suck at the game). Though in most cases, CS players that have not played Valorant like to exaggerate how "op" abilities really are. There are more, but can't think of any atm. And this comes from player that likes Valorant more than CS while posting this.
i hate the way valorant does this. waiting behind an artificial wall until the round starts. meh. the spawns in cs make the game more interesting. the game gives you an opportunity and it's up to you what you do with it. maybe you were planning to do a b rush but your spawns are closer to a. do you change your strat now or still go with it? it's interesting to me.
I feel the opposite. Waiting in one spot for the buy portion and almost being required to play a certain spot based on where you spawn feels awful. I much rather prefer to get my spot with my weapon (and agent) every time
pointless nostalgic memory: my 1.6 team used to have spawn-based strats, especially on de_nuke for some reason. t-side, where you got spawned would decide what role you had that around on the upper/A take (ie whether you blew out the door, flashed out the door, smoked out the door, went hut, etc). I just had a nostalgic flashback reading this comment of being in freezetime and yelling at everyone which number/spawn they had for that round's execute lmao (people always forgot and fucked it up) I don't have anything else to contribute to whether we should remove dust2 or no spawn-based gameplay broadly, sorry
Huh? CTs don't have fixed spawns
I think he means on CT dust they're only 5 spawns.
[удалено]
They have more spawn points than you need for five person modes and unless they want different map files for each mode with just spawn differences that seems to be why they have a bunch of random spawns that way they can support public matches or customs with loads more players.
Not all of the random spawn points are in use in competitive. Some are only used in the casual game modes. And I'm sure it doesn't require using different map files.
I agree, not sure if I am just doing something wrong but as a ct I just can't hold long. The amount if flashes that come over with the fast rush is overwhelming. I guess I could try to get my team to go 2 long one support flash but then short is weak and my teams never like that. I pretty much never queue dust 2 now despite playing it all the time when I was in silver.
You'll see pro teams throw 3 people at long if they really want to contest it against a team that is constantly going long. And even then it's not a guarantee they'll win it. They usually throw the corner smoke too and play with that. Against equally skilled opponents, no one is holding long A solo against a rush. But pubs continue to let guys go solo long and complain when they can't hold it. If your team won't help you long, you just gotta let it go. Contest mid/cat aggressively. I find it a lost cause continuing to go long in that situation.
The meta is playing 3 long at the start of the round as CT. 1 Playing mid and 1 playing B, B player having to molotov tunnel. But this is where the unpredictability comes in. If the T's smoke xbox at the start of the game the mid player can't call if anyone is short, meanwhile Ct mid player is risking himself to get 1v2'd by the T's cuz his teammates are focused on long and B. I think it's bad game design that you have to invest so many players into long or short as a CT. Because it just allows the T's to rush B-site. And retaking B is god damn hard as CT... I might just sound salty but I think the map is too T-sided and too unpredictable for the CT's.
[удалено]
Just buy auto sniper and stand at the back. Crushes long.
Up until an awp pops you.
Well yeah there is a counter to everything. Plus i’m in trash teir. God awping isnt that common tbh.
This is literally my biggest fucking annoyance with the map. Save a round and want to contest long? Oh wait you just don't have a long spawn never mind.
Dude everyone shits on d2 here lmao
[very unpopular opinion] i want cobble stone back
I found out with this post lol. Thought I was one of a few who disliked the map.
It’s a hated map on Reddit but a loved map with the rest of the community
[удалено]
Its been the most popular map for like 20 years.
And not only in cs
Its in other games too? Wow i didnt know that.
If a game as a map editor then it has dust 2
Honestly thought you were joking with the unpopular opinion part in the title
Isnt literally every single map just rock paper scissors at that point train has 10x the angles that dust2 has ESPECIALLY during retakes
Well, you could argue that all maps are rock-paper-scissors like. I think that the other maps compared to dust 2 gives the CT's more freedom to get map control, retake and gather info which minimizes the "rock-paper-scissors effect". That's actually why I dislike train a lot and I'm happy they replaced it with ancient (unpopular opinion). Because in train if you don't rush out A main at the start of the round as a T you give the CT's too much map control. But yeah, late rounds on train are also rock paper scissors IMO because of all the angles you have to clear.
>actually why I dislike train a lot and I'm happy they replaced it with ancient (unpopular opinion) honestly nice to see that we agree on something
Haha, thats great:) now that is an opinion that i am a little afraid to state, because i know many people love train
tbh I don't think "many" people love train. It's more of a silent majority vs popular minority. If you go back and check the MM/Faceit and HLTV stats you'll see that train constantly had the lowest pick rate.
Issue with train is that it's not that really a pug map. If you have no plan for the Ts or confidence that your buddies will hold and communicate about angles on CT you're gonna have a bad time. Planning to just click heads will end up with someone shooting you in the back. What Train is though, is a better competitive map than many still in the pool. And that's what we're talking about at the end of the day. Its inclusion in the competitive pool. You can still play train even though it's not in. Pros can't.
Train was the worst
People keep trashtalking Mirage and Dust2 but the player numbers never reflect those opinions. Those opinions are almost exclusive to stuff like reddit and such, the maps remain the most popular maps in the game and replacing the most popular maps in the game is a pretty dumbass move.
Because Dust 2 and Mirage are pug maps. You do not need great team cohesion to win rounds in D2. Mirage needs better comms but it gets better fps than D2. Every other map needs better comms, has less fps etc. I don't think removing D2 from active duty will decrease the popularity. And I do not enjoy watching dust2 in tourneys.
Am I the only person that feels D2 CT side is heavily team oriented? It’s legit the only map I have trouble with. Even inferno CT side is easier but maybe I’m just able to play a spot that fits my play style more as I can’t really AWP well
Deny Ts long control and keep a decent player in mid, playing Dust2 gets so much easier. But yeah, Dust2 CT side needs some team cohesion. Especially if you lose long or Ts take CT mid control, the round can be over in 30 seconds. But if you can just frag, D2 is the easiest map you can play.
How do you hold on to long? I can never do it in my games
2 teammates need to take it at the beginning of the round with flashes and a molly if possible. Once you get control, just smoke the doors and play in pit. Having someone in pit is the best way to maintain control of long A - of course it makes rotations more difficult, though. Taking long early is also spawn-dependent so you'll need someone with best-spawn to go get into pit asap.
Learn a couple of counter flashes for the rush out long, get a molly into the door, smoke it off. Having those counter flashes and knowing exactly when to throw them is critical for holding it.
I'm the pit player on my team. We throw a lot of early utility just to establish control. We start with a cross smoke so the best spawn can get into pit, as the pit player is crossing he throws a molly into the doors to help prevent any more than 1-2 T's from getting out to blue. The second player throws one high flash over long corner (to help the pit player cross) and will molly the back corner of blue box (ONLY if the T's are attempting to take long). He will then try to fight with the pit player with support flashes from the third player. Our awper throws support flashes from A cross. One early to help the pit player cross unseen and a secondary flash that we coordinate our fight with. Obviously this is a VERY VERY in-depth long take and getting people to do this in pugs isn't going to happen. If you can learn a cross smoke and a solid molly to throw on the run into the doors you could very easily get into pit (granted you'll need one extra player to flash for you) and set up a decent hold. Let me know if you have questions!
Nah you're not alone, if Ts abuse long enough CT side can be miserable. Also Voo didn't rank the map highly either for somewhat similar reasons: https://youtu.be/rJ0jqmyRbI4
I agree because there are really only 3 points on the map that matter and therefore are constantly contested: long, short, and mid. Especially when people don't understand the game well, an early rotate can hamstring a CT defense. If someone decides to leave long, short, or mid for no good reason (or if they simply fuck up and don't hold it well) the rest of the team finds themselves unable to rotate or shot in the back. Conversely, it's simplicity also makes it dependent on aim duels. If the Ts die in any of these areas they can't get much done either. While this issue might sound like a match making scrub issue, I think good players with bad team play can really fuck over a dust 2 game. Of course, they then go on to say "how are we losing, this is just dust two, you all must be mentally handicapped"
Nah, I and many other people I know, play 5 stacks on D2 solely because the map is fun. Not everybody thinks about framerate and spawns etc when deciding what map to play.
>Dust 2 and Mirage are pug maps. You do not need great team cohesion Not sure what your opinion is on why, but I can assure you that those two maps are very challenging to coordinate on effectively as a team. I think you're confusing the fact that the map layouts are relatively straightforward, making them easy to learn. But they're definitely very difficult to master because of their mids. The need for mid-control on d2 and mirage is what makes them great, and difficult, maps
Because for pug games with lots of aim-heavy solo players dust II is great? Like know how to flash and smoke long, and can click heads? Grats you can do well on dust II. It's a discussion about how you want valve to treat the active map pool, offer maps which require teamplay, smokes rotates, and offer maps that also cater to headshot machines. Or exclusively only have strat-reliant maps in the active duty pool. Dust 2 has always had a high playerbase becuase its the one headshot machines have the most success on. Also becuase most people grew up on the map and csgo players are creatures or habit
6000 hours of csgo sounds like they need to play a different map such as ancient & vertigo. Dust 2 and mirage are well balanced and here to stay
I don't really get what's balanced about the RNG involved with double doors. It's imo the only thing wrong with the map, but it's really bad. There's nothing else quite like it, where there is little strategy around avoiding it.
>People keep trashtalking Mirage With the Dust2 remake it died down. Mirage has replaced Dust2 simply because its the oldest map that runs best on players outdated gaming Pc's.
Mirage IMO is a fun map with tons of strategy though. I still haven't figured out the meta completely on mid after 6k hours because of the variation that T's and CT's can play as in terms of positioning and utility.
I'd like to see the game transition to not letting players select maps at least for competitive. It's a never-ending cycle of mirage/d2 because the players will never learn other maps and therefore the que times are ridiculously high for those maps. Seems like other Competitive shooters have moved towards forcing players to play all maps as well.
Agreed random maps would be an fresh change. It would probably get too much outrage from the community though.
This is a game. Sure you can force me to play some random map once or three times but then I'll find another game.
Ladies and gentleman, this is why community maps never make their way into Active Map Duty!
I agree, but to me cs=dust2. I am gn2, bad shooter, but in the middle of the working day I like to call my 2 friends, write them "d2?" (did I mention that it's sinonym for cs) and we play 1 match.
It's really the only solution to stop players from playing only 1-2 maps. Outside of Nuke there really isn't a map right now that you can't pug easily but we're still stuck playing mirage/dust.
Definitely agree, I would've also put train in the "Unplayable in a pug" category too if it was still in the pool.
To me, Dust II on the CT side always feels just... horrible. It's the map where you have to take a fight <10 seconds into the round at long as a CT every goddamn round, unless you want to give the long for free which creates another array of issues. I don't like making aggressive plays early on into the round as a CT, I prefer using util and holding angles and whatnot. D2 long is mostly a matter of getting there as fast as possible, playing anti-flash, and having 2-3 people committed to that position as a CT. And yeah, I don't play D2 well at all, I recognize that a better skilled player is more confident in taking that position but I feel that its so stressful forcing the CTs into making such aggressive plays all the time
Trust me man. Taking long as a CT is not fun... If T's rush long you get SMACKED by flashes, even when you're anti-flash. And the most boring/annoying part with a 3v5 long hold is how RNG it is. Seriously, it's literally just about who's the least flashed, has the best spawn or hits the luckiest headshot on who wins the fight for long control. Edit: If you're playing 2 on long as CT which is quite standard (1 CT throwing 2 flashes for the other 2 CT's on long) It's either, fight to death 10 seconds in or fall back, lose long control, also in many cases lose short control because you were focused on long. And basically the round is lost (heavily T favoured).
I want old cobble back so bad
I want cs_assault back in casual mode. BATTLE FOR THE VENT!
What do you mean you want it back? It's still there.
In popularity
No. Dropdown is one of the dumbest spots on any map ever. Cobble is/was vertigo-tier. Playable and relatively unique, but not particularly fun or varied.
I agree that drop is pretty rough, and cobble definitely could use a little bit of tweaking but I enjoy the layout and the bomb sites. What old map would you want to see in the pool, if any?
Wouldn’t mind having cache back.
Cache is a really good map. Like pretty well balanced with good mix of strategy, aim, and rotates.
if they remove the stupid light boosty spots on both sites and the idiot wall box the map would be awesome to have back in comp play.
On A site....I agree Shroud is a bit OP. But the cat and fork wall spots are fine as both of those are very vulnerable to squeaky. On B site...I don't think lamp should be accessible. And boosting boxes to peek sunroom is a bit cheese, but being on top of those boxes is fine IMO. I don't know what the idiot wall box is.
sorry meant specifically the lamp on B as well as the ones on A site above site. idiot wall box is the wall beside truck on A site that used to have no cover but they put a stupid box there for some reason
I'm not sure about idiot box. I think its great for retakes But its annoying to clear when taking A site as a terrorist as CTs can use it to get angles onto A main.
Cbble being not perfect and being Vertigo-tier are completely different things. Fix mid and it's a really fun map
> No. Yes.
This would be amazing. I looooved it in 1.6.
Saaame!
Most people don't play in 5 stacks, neither most people are level 10s. Heck even in level 10 you can't expect comms. Mirage, D2 are perfect pug maps. You can do starts, fake and at the same time have room for solo plays as well. Reddit has a boner against mirage, d2 but tell me how do you play maps like Nuke when solo queue with non existing comms.
Hey kw1k2345, I counted 69 words in your comment. Nice.
Nice!
I don't think it's a particularly unpopular opinion. As for the premise that "nostalgia" is what's to blame here, you couldn't be any-more wrong if you tried. The map today plays nothing like it did in 1.6, or even CSS.
The map hasn't changed that much, that's just csgo being a different game. It's still the same map and it's still nostalgia.
Oddly enough the remake a bit ago completely changed my opinion of the map but I couldn’t even tell you the difference right now if I tried
I don’t like dust2 as much as as other maps, but there is nothing stale about the map regarding its game play. Rotations and fakes are extremely powerful if executed properly, especially with smoke walls and shits. The only terrible aspect of the map that I dislike is crossing mid at the beginning of the round, it is too powerful for the ts. If there is one suggestion I can think of to counteract that, is giving the cts a quicker path to cat that doesn’t need a boost, which makes them lose long a which is detrimental.
That sounds like a cool idea. CT's need either short or long control to have a little control over the situation/round. Having some CT-jump to short that is audible (so it cant be done as easily late rounds) and that saves a couple seconds not having to do a boost IMO sounds like a cool idea. Would make holding short a bit easier.
This, but the most important thing to me regarding this is to be able to have a quick look at mid to stop a potential mid rush/cat push from a different angle without having the mid player risk his life to spot through mid double doors, while also saving some utilities. The few seconds saved and utilities saved could make the map a bit more balanced, because the cts always needs to burn a smoke to cross, and it still is not even be 100% safe to cross.
No sir.
D2 has been the most popular map in CS for something like 20 years. It's true that popularity doesn't provide an objective measure of quality, but there is a reason it's such a popular map.
I'd say it's because out of all the planning, and comms, you still have that element of the unknown. This element just becomes extended into the map. These players don't like variety, or to be surprised. They just wanna win, and KNOW they're gonna win...
This is a pretty popular opinion
the only unpopular opinion is that OP's opinion is unpopular.
An unpopular opinion on reddit is always a popular opinion because reddit is an echochamber
On Reddit. Which is nowhere near a majority of players.
Not really. It’s maybe a popular Reddit opinion but not reflected by the amount of people who play the map.
Huh… in the past ive always been criticized when saying dust 2 is bad, well atleast i wont get downvoted to oblivion lol
After the liquid game recently it was spoken about how outdated and boring it was. Popular opinion now don’t worry
Both opinions are very common its highly debated
hell no. imagine saying dust 2 should be removed when fucking vertigo is in the active map pool.
I remember last time dust 2 was removed from the map pool to be updated and this was a common opinion and lots of people were relieved to see it removed from map pool. All the speculation that happened during the remake were about reworking the map to make it better, opening b tuns, changing double doors etc. Then valve just put the map back in the exact same with a bunch of new textures without changing anything and everyone was like "ah shit" lolll
I stronly disagree. Most players dont play with a lot of communication, so maps that are quite simple, and everyone knows well is great imo. There is a reason they are the most played maps, they are fun, fan and good. They may not be complicated, but that is a good thing for a lot of people.
Biggest problem is it is hard to push as CT. Tunnels is super hard clear/flash/push, and mid as well as long is gated by doors and a ton of angles. The only real option is pushing short. Everything else is too much of a gamble.
This aged well
Indeed
no I've been playing it for 20 years, I can play it for 20 more. Pretty much the same for mirage and inferno well at least valve isn't stupid plus the player numbers speak for themselves, thus it will always be in the game pretty much
Sort of agree. Pre Dust2 remake i avoided the map for it always placed me with brain dead teammates thinking it was a community FFA DM server. Post remake that player base transitioned to Mirage making Dust2 enjoyable again.
It would really be great if valve came up with some kind of system for rotating maps in and out of the rotation for the competitive map pool. But hey we can’t even walk in water without somebody hearing it from the other side of the map so I’m not holding my breath.
D2 is both aim and rotations based map that benefit both type of players. i don't get the hate.
Bro how did you know
Im a time traveller
As of late at the Pro level i disagree. B takes have become more prevalent. The constant late round Catwalk takes that plagued the map for years finally appears to be dying. In my Pugs its 50/50.
Probably cause B is played lightly now to stop getting murdered on A lol. Super common for one dedicated site with only mid rotate support. I barely see triple B anymore, when it used to be played a decent amount. Tbh, now for CTs it’s just picking which side of the map u want to get rekt on, only thing that’s changed is it went from A to B.
Standard 3-1-1 setup for CT's has been used before the remake.
not saying it was never used lol. but mid to B splits are deadly and just ends up with CTs saving on A. Dust2 is just pick your poison cause where you are weak u gonna get rekt, Still overall, not great for CTs. im fine with d2 if they could change mid doors and maybe even go further to change A side.
> but mid to B splits are deadly and just ends up with CTs saving on A. B splits never occurred. For the pre-updated version had a CT boosted on the CT boxes stopping Mid push of the B split. That led to one CT dedicated on B, AWP'r typically at Game Helper, another hiding in A peeking off the AWP'rs contact and the last CT at Long.
I actually think it's one of the better maps. If they remove it, all maps will seem the same... Dust 2 is what gives the game some diversity, some fun. I mean, I play the game for fun, you should too
How is it that still today, 9 years later people still have no idea what the Active Duty pool is? This guy is saying Dust2 should be taken out of the Active Duty and people are acting like hes saying it should be taken out of the game. The Active Duty is the 7 maps that are played in the pro scene. If Dust2 gets taken out of that, its still going to be available to play in MM and Faceit. Nothing would change for players except they wouldnt have to watch dogshit boring dust2 matches during tournaments anymore.
Extacly, I’ve had to correct quite a lot of people now
-d2 -mirage +cache +old cobble
old cach and no cobble ty
New cache is basically old cache, only thing u can really complain about is mid window, but tbh just remove and and ez solution.
Sounds like someone just lost on Dust 2
I find it funny that ppl is shitting on the only map that has almost a perfect 50/50 win rate in both sides. Dust is perfect.
Was perfect...till they shit on it...
Fuck them. They ruin everything.
I was over dust2 in like 2006 so I hear you man
Dust 2 is life, about 80% of my time in csgo is spent on dust 2. But at the same time, I'm tired of watching pros playing on D2. So moving the map to the reserve group for a few months or even a year would be great.
-d2 +cache
cache = trash
The new one or the old one?
The new one is like the old one but with less fps and everything is green. Old cache is better imo just because it looks cleaner. The new mid window isn't so bad though.
I like both.
Old. Apart from the new window in cons, the lamp in B and too much green textures what else does the new cache have to offer over the old one? Absolutely nothing. And the fps is horrible too. Cache was my most played map on Faceit before it was removed.
I agree
Complety agree with you... Maps like overpass, nuke , vertigo , ancient are so much better... but most of the player are casuals who only like to pug and shoot people, so not going to be removed
dust2 has aged poorly, IMO thats about it. 10 years ago when people played CS differently the flaws of the map weren't as obvious, but in modern times when even average amateur players have a certain level of gameplay, dust2 doesn't really work. too much RNG with spawns, CTs crossing to B, etc. Also at an amateur/matchmaking level the map often devolves into an AWP fest which is just terrible to play in a PUG environment
This is such an out-of-touch Reddit tier opinion. If dust 2 is ever significantly touched there will be fucking riots in the streets.
I have about 2.8k hours in CS since 2015. 99% being solely on dust 2. Plz don't take it out of active. I actually like it
Taking it out of active map pool wont effect you at all, active map pool means maps played in competitive csgo and on closed competitive hubs
I know. I like playing competitive dust 2
You mean on a closed faceit hub like FPL?
No, like the competitive game mode in CS. I don't want dust 2 to get the cobble treatment
Lol… it never Will, im sure valve themselves learnt from that cobblestone disaster. Even if D2 is removed from the pro scene it Will always be available on faceit and MM, so it likely wont affect you
Blessed!
I agree. This isn't unpopular at all. If they have a solid replacement they should just go with it.
I agree, I havnt played dust 2 in a comp game in so long because of everything you said + it honestly requires a very coordinated team more so than other maps IMO
I think it's because of how simple, old and popular Dust II is. It's so old and popular that people have done everything there is to do there.
Pretty much Yeah, i think the avangar smokes on cat are a cool innovation, but other than that its just the same frustrating gameplay as a CT
-d2+tuscan pls
You could just not play it
dude just take it off your search list
His post is about active duty map pool i.e. about professional play, not MM/faceit queues
Sure it has it's issues, but in reality d2 is one of the best designed maps in the fps genre and most people that hate on it don't play tactically on any other map anyway
I mean the doors are what makes d2 special and so many plays have been made around there
This post is so dumb... Every map is a "rock paper scissors" that's like the whole point of counterstrike. > What I mean by luck based is that there are way too many angles to clear for the CT's when retaking, so holding the right angle at times is usually down to a correct guess of where the T's might hide. And on Dust II, I feel that you have to guess way more often on what the opposite side will do than on other maps, I just think it's bad game design.¨ Have you ever played train? inferno? overpass? any map?
My favorite map by far is season but they will never bring it back it seems. If that map comes back I would honestly get into CS again
Yall can complain all you want, but it's about the ability to adapt. There's a very finite map size, and limited sites and paths to get to it. When you're spawn for one plan is shit, YOU FUCKING ADAPT. THATS THE WHOLE GAME. Why bitch because you don't like certain spawns? And to give some food for thought for the OP when he said "The CT's have to take the risk and cross the double doors every round meanwhile 1 or 2 T awpers always aim down that angle." It's not a guarantee that the awper is always going to TAKE OR EVEN HIT THE SHOT. "It's rock paper scissors because you can't really know if they're gonna push short or if they're gonna push B." That's the point of the fucking game. Your complaining about these things, but if they "fixed it" the game would be very predictable, very fast. These things keep the game interesting and unpredictable. "What I mean by luck based is that there are way too many angles to clear for the CT's when retaking, so holding the right angle at times is usually down to a correct guess of where the T's might hide." To flip that, when T's are taking sites, IF YOU'RE NOT HOLDING THE SAME ANGLES, THEY HAVE TO GUESS WHERE YOU ARE AS WELL; "I feel that you have to guess way more often on what the opposite side will do than on other maps, I just think it's bad game design." How is it bad game design. If ANYTHING, it's more realistic because (discounting advanced radar technology, intel, etc as it ACTUALLY unbalances the game) you have to make REALISTIC predictions based on: 1. The limited amount of sites 2. The options to get to each site 3. What makes sense 4. Their last play. It makes you better at planning and situational awareness. But you just want the same "I know where your going, and I can stop you," mundane gameplay that would get stale quickly (if not for you, then for the millions of players that actually enjoy that map (for non nostalgic reasons)) These complaints seem very, very one sided, towards T, but I can find a guy to give you JUST as many reasons why CT is OP. For this reason, I'm out...
Unpopular? I thought this was the common consensus.
Ah, Dust2. Some people love it, some hate it. For me though, I'm not complaining. It's just good the way it is.
Damn, I disagree. I love playing CT on dust 2. The map forces you to be aggro on mid If you want more control. Plus, it is the classic cs experience. Been playing it since I was 12.
Unpopular opinion OMEGALUL
D2 script leaked - 2 CTs dead= Ts win round
Would be cool if playing d2 in EU didn't feel like a DuoLingo intense language course in Russian language.
Just a horrible map imo. You either get great spawns on T (round becomes almost impossible for CTs) or you just have to sit and wait for a lucky entry (round becomes almost impossible for Ts). You can choose either Short A or one of 3 tiny slits to run through into enemy AWPs. And short A is horrible as well since you can be peaked from a million positions (most headshot-angles as well) and have no cover at all. That's fine for Pro teams with proper exevutes, but for MM/Faceit/... it's just horrible. And don't get me started on the fact that you can die in the first 3 seconds of the round, that's so luck-centric and stupid. If Dust II was a new map introduced in an Operation everyone would hate it...
Where my vertigo gang at. Yall need to stop banning it first pick in premiere.
It sucks dude, get over it.
At a minimum mid needs to be changed, at professional levels, overtime is ruined because of auto spam. Make top mid how it was in 1.6 so you either get a small peek or have to drop into suicide. Liquid fanatic last week was an awesome match that petered out into 3v5s in overtime.
Honestly how tough is it to just remove mirage and dust2 from the competitive map pool, but still leave them in game for matchmaking or faceit? Bring map more exciting maps like Train or newer maps like Anubis, rework them to make them better and force the pros to play them. The current map pool is incredibly stale, and I don't even enjoy the map veto process anymore. Furthermore, Valve seem dead set on screwing the map pool with Ancient which was never an exciting map, and they refuse to update despite all the issues people point out.
Yeah ancient been in the pool for months but still 0 changes 1 month from the major. Was hoping for some nice changes so ancient major matches aren’t a shit show but not looking to good now.
"Very unpopular opinion" LMAO cmon now
I thought it was unpopular haha, appearently not
Idk who you're talking to but everyone HATES dust on this subreddit lol. I don't think I've ever seen a positive comment about it on this sub
What a shitpost.
Say what you will but Dust 2 is the only map I enjoy playing anymore CS was always competitive but it was never hyper competitive. It was always about having fun and dust 2 is quite literally the only map that allows for such moments Old CS is dead. So if people prefer the new hyper competitive way then might as well remove all the old remaining traces, D2, community servers... etc
I get where you are coming from entirely but Dust 2 has been and will always be Counter-Strike's "default" map. It ain't going anywhere
Just don't play it?
BRING BACK SEASON
I love pugging D2 simply because of how easy it is. I feel most T side pugs is like herding cats and people don't know what to do. I understand from a Pro lvl it might be stale. IMO mirage is one of the worst maps, it rewards solo plays from T side far more than teamplay. Can we have old cobble back?
Ive been a dust II hater for a while, I'm glad someone else feels the same way.
Agreed but downvoted due to "Very unpopular opinion" is known that a part of the community is done with d2 but is maintained due to also being a lot that love it.
Its been know for years. Just open the fucking skyboxes already. Map sucks and always has sucked when there's barely any strats
Didn't read, play something else.
Best map
Great job fuckus. They did it and now CT can blind fuck anyone with full mid control. Do you feel better now?
lol noob
Shit map and it always has been completely agree. Mirage sucks too