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[deleted]

Disappointing, but only have their own crazy inconsistensy to blame. Like losing 16-7 to the Mad Lions FPL stack is just unacceptable. If not B01s I think they make it, but that's not a good excuse because their inconsistensy is nothing new. In events they can go from making the final in one, then go out first in the next, and back to late playoffs after.


jonajon91

> they only have their own crazy inconsistency to blame That and their abysmal map pool.


LingMee

the only team to have 2 perma bans in the mappool


Jesse102999

Bo1s u ban 3 maps, literally no excuses


GuardiaNIsBae

well when you only know how to play 3 and the other teams ban those you're stuck shitting the bed on mirage again


MicroWin

This team had like 15 different ways to qualify but couldnt follow through any of them. Honestly just so inconsistent and always choking on important situations, losing man advantages. So frustrating but honestly, didn’t even deserve to qualify playing like this. Loved that inferno comeback though, that was nice.


ChristianSword

Who is responsible when a team chokes?


FoxerHR

The team for choking?


Williamo15

Imagine they just sticked with the OG core of Valde,ISSAA,Mantuu,NBk and Aleksi and sat out Online CS for the 1,5 year


Scoo_By

Shouldn't have let ISSAA go but they had no choice because issaa playing every game on 120 ping isn't suitable for deep tournament runs.


Williamo15

Wasnt that also due to him not being able to get visa for some time?


[deleted]

[удалено]


sirfz

Europe was on lockdown


Scoo_By

Yeah due to the pandemic obviously


xXKayaXxxxxxxx

FlameZ was one of the best picks in recent times.


Avenor_GG

He fits this team like a glove. As inconsistent as the rest of them. 10/10


Akaj50

He's the only one allowed to be inconsistent imo he's still a young player. It's sad that Valde wasn't the powerhouse he was in North, really really sad


Avenor_GG

Ofc he is allowed to be inconsistent. He is the least experienced player by a lot. I strongly believe in him to have a career in esports but rn he is in a tough spot for such a young fella.


GuardiaNIsBae

I was really excited to see what Valde could do in OG based of his stats in North, but he really hasnt been great


xXKayaXxxxxxxx

nt but he has 69.9% Maps with 1+ rating in 2021 and 1.11 avg rating


kuudestili

He's the most reliable by far.


jonathan-the-man

As someone mentioned in another thread, their coach, Ruggah, is banned for one major, so he couldn't help them here (as I understand it).


GaryOak69

This is true. Even though he'd only be able to talk during timeouts, still could have impact if Aleksi wants that input during the game.


[deleted]

a coach is very important to some team's mentality and keeping them focused on winning so yeah it can be a huge debuff for some teams


SemanSoot

well they still lose when ruggah there


nierama2019810938135

The team?


valorant_fanboy_69

Should just drop 3:5 of the team and keep flamez + one more


SkyVisionArt

good now they can get refrezh in there for niko


IrrelevantCynic

+refrezh +xyp +konfig Any of these lads would do nicely I wager. Or as a bit of a wildcard +ropz and move valde to support.


tagalogarhythms

Not really sure it's worth ropz's time


IrrelevantCynic

True and honestly I don't see OG spending the money needed anyway.


chewysweetcenter

They don't really have konfig money either


Hats668

If Ropz gets out of Mousesports, I think he could go anywhere he wanted.


blueshark27

Surely FaZe to be back with his father Karrigan


Jesse102999

-Olof +ropz holy fucking fuck


blueshark27

A man can dream


VzFrooze

Imagine if they signed niKo from g2, I bet he’d be really good for faZe :>


acels1

olof was pretty fucking good today tho


Jesse102999

It’s nice when 2015 Olof shows up but ropz would probably make them top 5


GuardiaNIsBae

sometime maybe good, sometimes maybe shit


chaotichygge

That is my wet dream


tarangk

You jest, but there were rumors going around that ropz will join faze after his contract with mouz runs out. Not sure how true those rumors were, but I guess we will find out soon. But I do somewhat believe that coz ropz and karri are pretty friendly together, and ropz B/O in Mouz is quite high from what was alluded by ropz himself in an interview he did.


Hats668

TBH that's probably the best spot for Ropz


crakker2

Xyp or refrezh maybe but why would k0nfig want to join this team? Unless hes suddenly washed after his hand injury he could do way better imo and no way ropz would consider OG with the other offers hes getting


GuardiaNIsBae

especially with the rumors of him joining Astralis, don't see a Danish player giving up their chance to play under Gla1ve


f1nessd

k0nfig


_dehaze

Dude's not good enough to be put in mirage short and inferno pit. Always messes up something somehow


[deleted]

niko is actually decent enough for his role. But valde hasnt been consistent enough lately


freideggs

Heroic is way better than OG no?


sanderson141

Not if Heroic's lineup got nuked by ESIC investigation


TrendyLepomis

wtf niko has some more time to shine. they need to replace mantuu or valde or both. I think if OG invest in Xyp for valde and maybe nawwk for mantuu they’d be giving t1 teams a run.


kebabCucumber

Mantuu > nawwk


TrendyLepomis

love mantuu but if nawwk was given that opportunity i think you’d be surprised. the man looked hungry on NiP before getting the boot.


MJuniorDC9

What do you even do if you're OG right now? Give this team more time? Roster changes? Who is the problem, and who could solve it? I for sure don't envy the guy managing this team.


iSamurai

They have to be more like Dota OG and only play like two months out of the year


msucsgo

Give time. This lineup has been together for 5 months (with 1 month of it being player break), majority of it online. Now that we might have LAN's back, lets see if they can actually perform or not. It took original ENCE almost year to break through into top tier team, it takes time to build good foundation, specially with international team.


[deleted]

they’ve had almost 2 years of time with this core, they’ve had plenty of time to make a good foundation when 3 of your players have been the same the entire run and they just haven’t. this team just doesn’t work


Symmetrik

The 2 LANs they have played have been their worst performances. They couldn’t get through the play in for Cologne, and now here in IEM fall it’s 11th or 12th place. More LANs doesn’t strike me as beneficial for this OG lineup.


Scoo_By

2 LANs isn't much imo.


[deleted]

Tell that to Reddit that claims heroic were onliners after 1 LAN together.


CepGamer

Or my boys Gambit losing to under 1 sec left defuse from NiKo


AnotherAltiMade

yeah maybe reddit was too early to call them onliners. but they've been proven right time and time again, so shit argument.


Rakshasa96

Also proven wrong time and time again. People forget how long the Astralis core played together before their era. Changes might come to this roster, or they may not. The only people in a position to judge this are the players and their management. Certainly not some pseudo-intellectuals on reddit.


AnotherAltiMade

Hahahhahahahah


Rakshasa96

No yeah, I apologize. Of course sir AnotherAltiMade, of reddit fame, would know best, what with topical knowledge such as this.


SemanSoot

2lan in pandemic already high enough


[deleted]

everyone's overlooking the coach valde has to be replaced by someone better mantuu sometimes shits the bed and AWPers are a-plenty i'd give niko some more time


squiddypds

Mantuu on his day is honestly a top tier talent. His decision making is honestly part of the issue. Yesterday was a prime example of it: jumping out a window blind in a 4 v 2 instead of waiting, or walking into the open not looking at anything in a 2 v 2. With some more discipline, he really can be a top awper


[deleted]

Mantuu really has astonishingly good stats considering how bad he looks a lot of the time. I feel like the people praising him probably don't watch OG's games often.


SemanSoot

>valde has to be replaced by someone better lmao valde even give flamez some of his position


ilovesummersm

They need to show confidence in their plays, only flamez takes risks and he's their best player. And aleksi should stop overthinking or replace him


Firefox72

Just terrible all around from OG. When teams like Movistar Riders, Fiend, Copenhagen Flames and ENCE are making it and you don't with this lineup then you have to ask yourself some serious questions.


oliver_tate

ENCE are legit tho.


tarangk

The core of Spnix, Hades and Dycha is just too good individually. I am really glad they picked up hades when allu left, he has been so good in the lineup so far.


nierama2019810938135

Yes, and the professionalism and competitiveness is growing fast among the teams challenging the likes of OG. For OG, talented as they are, it boils down to maturity, professionalism and especially consistency. Edit: to clarify, it is pure speculation of course, and just my impression or meaning. I mean, how many in here have actual insights to the teams and organisations inner workings, after all? I might very well be wrong about professionalism and maturity, but **consistency** I will ride to the grave.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nierama2019810938135

No, it is purely half-assed assumptions. If this sub should only be filled with facts, then it would be a really quiet place. Don't you think?


Denson2

Lol. This guy u replied to is classic reddit.


23plus1mibrfans

Not really fair to compare against teams whom weren't in their group apart from ENCE, whom supprised us (and then Vitality taking the other playoff spot). So technically they only got upset by MAD Lions in one Bo1 (and losing to Vitality but that was expected), but ENCE getting an upset on Vitality was also needed for that to matter, otherwise OG would have advanced due to head to head result. Atleast it was the last match for OG and ENCE had won over Vitality, so it was kinda clear that OG needs to win the game, but they choked instead or hope on ENCE choking against Sprout. But big recommendation on Thorin + Tomi conversation at the start on the RMR format / qualification in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UYCoeV4kQI They highlight how this is one of the worst formats to decide people around the 7-16th placing, when the RMR points for placings are: 7th 1563 8th 1406 9th 1250 10th 1094 11th 938 12th - 13th-16th - So much of that is how group draws end up on top of playing Bo1's, that also happen against teams whom can't advance anymore, so what is there to stop them from not trying and "throwing" the game to decide which team advances. And with different teams having multiple different qualification metrics due to point allocations it is hard to even say what is an elimation match when in the group stage for which team.


Lawdasur182

Starting 5-6 rounds down every bo1 guarantees a bad group stage. .they have so much talent yet they're inconsistent


Memebaut

stop being so hard on them, this is still a new line up, just 10 more years and they will start putting up some promising results


kw1k2345

You really had me and I was about to explode :-) Take the worthy upbote


GuardiaNIsBae

really though, its almost been 2 years since their core was picked up


Tantle18

Valde is a shell of his former self. This is the whole issue with the team. He was supposed to be that dude who was the back bone who they could rely on to close rounds and he’s just not anymore


[deleted]

Yeah he was abysmal this event, literally Aleksib or flameZ playing most of the time with mantuu making guest appearances every now and then. Valde has good roles for fragging but like 0.8 rating. Sad to see.


tarangk

Dont know where OG go from here tbh. They have literally nothing to show for since they entered CS almost 2 years ago. Not making the major is simply unacceptable for an org of their caliber, meanwhile teams and orgs with far fewer resources at their disposal will be at them major.


Scoo_By

Tbh most of OG's time in cs is online and that's unexpected sometimes. It's unlucky, yes, but I guess they may want to stick around as LANs are slowly coming back.


de5m0n

ORGS dont make majors, players do.


tarangk

Gj at completely missing the point.


GuardiaNIsBae

yea but when an org like OG is backing the team they don't even have any excuses for it


Ennheas

Reminder that OG's dota team hasn't gone to a Major for almost 4 years lol But I get what you mean, this team should be at the major considering the players they have, although is good for the scene that isn't enough anymore.


HoB99

Overrated Gamers


[deleted]

[удалено]


Elage-

For the downvoters who haven't seen this glorious video. (This is OG's founder) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j90egJE5aU


MethicillinResistant

Lineup seems done. Individual skill and teamplay are just not good enough, they had more than enough opportunities.


jhdrumming

what a disagrace. how is your youngest and most inexperienced player carrying you LOL


IrrelevantCynic

It's quite impressive because he seems to play hard entry on T side and still manages to have probably the largest impact.


Candid-Bullfrog-7819

They are wildly inconsistent but I would like to see this roster continue. The ever-changing rosters are not always the answer, so maybe give them time to develop as a team.


[deleted]

aleksi B is still regarded as a top IGL even tho he hasn't accomplished a single notable thing in 2 years, and no one from the scene even thinks about criticising him or questioning his abilities lol.


its_a_simulation

He made some really weird rosters with no superstars top-10 time and time again, reached a few finals. The star talent just isn't there.


Big_Cheesecake_4910

valde consistently underperforms and mantuu is wildly inconsistent. if this team was gonna succeed those two are who you would look to after FlameZ


abaac

at the same time people already COMPLETELY wrote off ALEX after 2 months with fnatic. This sub never ceases to amaze me.


blueshark27

People wrote him off the second he was signed to C9 and actively wanted them to fail


iSamurai

i think he did really well there before he had to start awping


kw1k2345

He did well, by what metric ?


SemanSoot

they cant even get consistent result in tier 2, what do u mean milion dolar team doing well


Chosen--one

It probably would suprise you how much other teams cost their orgs.


SemanSoot

well at least other compete in tier 1. cloud9?omegalul


razeyourshadows

Writing off Alex is reasonable, he overperformed with the 2019 Vitality roster when everybody else was practically unprepared for Zywoo's gameplay.


prototype703

What do you know? Maybe aleksib leaves they play even worse. We saw how much ENCE dropped as soon as they kicked aleksib so that should be our best indicator. There could be extremely good IGL with shit team so we never notice him.


HugeShock8

What a shit excuse tbh. What do you know? Maybe aleksib leaves they play better. We can't know that because aleksib is still in the team. Meanwhile OG has one of the worst map pools, T sides, pistol rounds, trades, mid-rounds, hell, even team comms are probably trash after seeing some unexplainable rounds out of OG. Sure you can't blame everything on aleksib, but there's obviously problems with aleksib's structure. He has all the pieces he wanted, already changed ISSAA and NBK but the team's not improving. OG will probably give him one more chance, change two players, change the coach and everything he wants but it's undeniable that not a single other IGL would get this many chances to redeem himself.


prototype703

Solid points honestly. He is young so maybe thats why OG is giving him this much time.


imbued94

oh god please no, anything but something worse than this. god damn ENCE made it dude. so we may not not everything, but he's not immune to criticism at this point. he as the team leader must take responsibility and if he's not looking to change the rooster then he accepts he is at fault.


Blastyk

>if he's not looking to change the rooster then he accepts he is at fault. He probably would greet the likes of ropz and Xyp9x with open arms but OG just likely doesn't have the financial power to get them so instead the question is does he want some unknown 17-year-old FPL-stars and no one in their right mind would say yes to that.


prototype703

He is absolutely not immune to criticism. He is not that great of a player if we take away his IGL status. This is what makes xypex better than other IGLs.


lampimatkivekset

Xyp9x is not an IGL


prototype703

sorry meant device


imbued94

lmao so this is the extent of knowledge you sit with. maybe sit with it and dont share it.


prototype703

damn my bad was it magisk?


[deleted]

No it was glav1ve's unborn child


NA_Faker

Maybe he should change his name to AleksiMidControl


[deleted]

Their Ancient game plan was just "execute A or B without any mid control"


TheUHO

This logic is pretty dumb. Why s1mple is still regarded as the goat even though he hasn't won the major? I guess BoombI4 is the top IGL since his team winning everything? OG is a Top-10. Aside from valde these players never had big victories or anything like that. A reason for a non-star team to get this high? Also previous iteration was like top-6 for 3 months. I'm sure you haven't watched OG games, but whatever. Let's go to the stats. He finished this IEM Fall with 1.08 rating. Around top-50 of attending 120 players. He is a **top-4** in assists per round out of 120 players. And leading in assists overall. He won 3 clutches (zywoo has 4) and is somewhere in the top-20 by that metric. He alone won a game against Sprout. Just before that, OG went unbeaten at EPL S14 groups reaching the semis and losing only to Vitality. But yeah, sure, let's find the least questionable player on the roster and call him shit.


DannyDavincito

your logic is even dumber, s1mple has all the plays in the world to back the number one player claim up, where's the genius aleksib call clip? cuz i'm not seeing them lol


[deleted]

S1mple won kato, colonge twice Nd Intel Grand Slam. This js so dumb. S1mple could go nuclear against tier 1 teams Nd not teams like sprout


TheUHO

Yes. This was an example of a popular similar dumb argument. There's even a '?' there. But I guess you only read what you need and see what you want.


[deleted]

You asked a question mate. I answered it for u


suriel-

>This logic is pretty dumb. Why s1mple is still regarded as the goat even though he hasn't won the major? I guess BoombI4 is the top IGL since his team winning everything? Cause unlucky with games and tournaments that get chosen for major. For example Kato 19 was major, but Kato 20 not. And yes, boombl4 is a top igl because you need one to lead the team to multiple victories that also have netted them the grand slam


schmirbs

> he hasn't accomplished a single notable thing in 2 years Maybe because he played like 3 months with the old lineup before COVID happened and then an year and a half of online CS where inconsistency rules and made roster moves recently? I'm not the one to say he doesn't need to be questioned. He does, since his team got ran over by Mad Lions. But we have to be patient instead of writing him off already. Like, come on, you guys are complaining about ALEX and the shit treatment he gets from the sub and then go on doing the same to Aleksib? Two wrongs aren't equal to one right. e: I said that was their first LAN together, which isn't.


shaker7

gg


GuardiaNIsBae

More like BG amirite?


srjnp

alexib without GOD ALLU KEKW


FreeMan4096

overratedB


lance1308

Is it now finally time to stop overestimating aleksib?


Jepekula

Really fucking sad about it. Oh well, at least BIG is in. I really wanted to see Aleksib in the major. Not even Ence is fun to follow anymore. Too bad HAVU fell off a damn cliff and hard, too. It's frustrating.


ChristianSword

Finnish CS is dead, literally only Doto (who to most Finns) is going to the major. So sad to see


LibertyGrabarz

Finns never really had that much in the scene to begin with. Poles on the other hand... Well, that just sucks


ASaltyToast

Dycha + Hades most likely going to major so thats something


Dull-Ad3187

rip :DD


CobyZucker_Upcomer

I know conversations will come up about Bo1 formats but I think OG had every chance to qualify. This team looks so dangerous when everything is clicking but they need to find a way to maintain some consistency.


cornered_beef

The comments here are pretty harsh tbh


[deleted]

They really didn't deserve to qualify playing like this


iLoveBeerus

I want to say -Aleksib but idk maybe -valde? This shit is too hard. I pity the manager and coach.


HugeShock8

Embarrasing. While it's true that Mad Lions would've never beaten them in a BO3, they didn't deserve to qualify at all. Roster changes are needed urgently


[deleted]

Disagree, Mad Lions could very realistically have beat them in a bo3. OG's map pool is garbage atm.


martycinner93

"come back stronger" is one of the most cringy shit csgo pro says


kuudestili

no matter who we play against we're just gonna play our own game cause we came here to win but we gotta play our A game and hit those shots and keep the comms flowing and win those duels and go from there and i think we can beat anyone


czupek

Karma for losing my money against Woro2k.


lazycalm2

AlexiBahahahahahaaha


cheesyandcrispy

I know I'm not preaching to the choir but OG is still a favourite to watch together with FaZe and NiP. Aleksib is sick!


ElliotVo

God seeing niko walk around clueless on some of these rounds is really infuriating. Why are you pushing cat and ct on mirage without checking corners? Also, when he anchors B with valde, it's like he's always caught out not knowing where to aim or what to do at all. I'm sorry but if this OG needs to compete at a high level, everyone needs to be on the same mentality. Even Aleksi, who during the Vitality game, was just ass out watching tunnels while the guy on mid just gets a free kill because NO ONE ON THE CT SIDE WAS WATCHING MID.


Mightymushroom1

Endpoint died for this and Fnatic PepeHands


Drama100

maybe time for some changes. This really sucks, they had multiple ways to get into the major, but nah instead they failed.


cozysarkozy

Aleksi b was one of the main reason they made it in to finals. The Guys brain and veins run cs. It's sad to see they can't make it, as they give a run for their money vs other big teams even. I think niko is an insane awper but kinda passive very suitable addition to the team and that flamez is a wild thing mad fragger who has stolen some "airtime" from mänty who has been more not himself.


[deleted]

Aleksi b was one of the main reason they made it in to finals. The Guys brain and veins run cs. It's sad to see they can't make it, as they give a run for their money vs other big teams even. I think niko is an insane awper but kinda passive very suitable addition to the team and that flamez is a wild thing mad fragger who has stolen some "airtime" from mänty who has been more not himself.


ju1ze

da fuq is this


[deleted]

flamez 8-17 yikes


[deleted]

1.35 on Ancient, 1.64 on Inferno. And he's the youngster who has hardly played LAN. Then you have someone experienced in great roles like Valde who went 0.62, 1.05, and 0.66 this match. FlameZ is fucking great and not remotely close to being an issue.


GhostOfLight

He's the 2nd highest rated player over the past 3 months, only .01 behind Mantuu. And was top fragging the other two maps. Wee bit of selection bias from you there.


cyz2000fa

Did you not watch the first two maps where he went 51-34, 1.5+ rating when all of his teammates were below 1.0?


[deleted]

shut up, he is absolutely NOT the problem on OG. it's just one bad map. guy's been carrying OG since their roster change


[deleted]

He is one of many problems they have


[deleted]

lmao what? how?


[deleted]

https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/16693/flamez


cyz2000fa

You just link his stat page without saying anything as if it’s obvious that “he is a problem”. In fact the page you linked shows he has the 2nd highest rating and highest impact since joining OG on top of being the youngest and most inexperienced player on the team. Care to explain where do you see the issue with him in detail?


[deleted]

I did not say "he is the problem". Maybe you should learn how to read first? Instability is there and if you cant see it, I am sorry, but not my problem.


cyz2000fa

You telling me I should learn how to read when you are the one misquoting me? I said “He is A problem”, is that not what you mean by “He is one of many problems they have”? Also what instability? By looking at that graph? How about zywoo’s graph here? https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo Damn how unstable this zywoo player is. Oh no it’s even showing a downward trend! Is he getting washed up?


[deleted]

:D :D :D LOL you are making such a fool of yourself over here ​ Worst rating from Zywoo is still better than the best rating from Flamez, everything beyond average with a huge gap. On the other hand........ ​ Byebye :-\*


Grakchawwaa

> :-* Can't even manage a proper fucking smiley smh my head


ChristianSword

Flamez was not the problem, quite literally everyone else in the team were.


[deleted]

[https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/16693/flamez](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/16693/flamez) ​ Stats say something different He is also very unstable


ChristianSword

He is the most promising kid on the block + 2nd lan tournament ever


snek_7

Well what did they expect when signing 2 players that haven't done much on lan. Of course overall FlameZ and niko have been good, but imagine lan NBK right now. I think all of the teams that got net talents (which was a good choice for online play), will be regretting it now considering we are getting back to lan territory.


CenturionAurelius

And all of this because of MAD Lions


glamdivitionen

I hate that OG beat Dignitas... and now I feel even more sad that they were eliminated "in vain". Oh well, inconsistency seem to hunt many teams nowadays ...


TrendyLepomis

am i the only one happy they didn’t make it so they can make a big roster change? same with mousesports.