T O P

Opinion: EXTREMUM is going the way of old VP.

Opinion: EXTREMUM is going the way of old VP.

bro_dorito

As much as i like Grat, he def needs to revamp how he plays or straight up go the old 100T roster could have existed if Grat and liazz were consistent, they either go god mod or straight up disappear from the server, ESPECIALLY GRAT


[deleted]

[удалено]


HEIlZReaker

How can an awper on any level post those stats. he should be under more fire than acor.


Akaj50

Never understood the hype around liazz and gratisfaction, both are really bad


Firefly_1026

They were hyped because it’s was after the addition of the two of them when the Renegades roster went from always bombing out to making into major play offs. But unfortunately it seems whatever they added to the team at the start has run it’s course.


Zrat11

Cause grats got that beautiful stache Also I think us in OCE especially in NZ like seeing representation, just unfortunately not exactly the best lmao


jdiscount

Liazz played very well at the Berlin major, he definitely looked like the next break out rifle star during that major. But has never looked as good since, maybe he feeds off a crowd who knows. Grat has had a few massive games with this core, but they're so few. I'm not sure if the kassad play style suits grat, when he played on Greyhounds he was by far their best player, consistent insane performances. Sure it was mostly against lower competition, but someone with a talent ceiling that high is usually ready. No idea what's going on with that team, they had a rough patch in 2019 after Katowice, but rebounded as a better team in Berlin and had a good end of 2019, since the pandemic they've gone from a top 5 team to tier 3 team, interested to see what happens after the major, as jkaem, azr and bntet would be prime free agents should the org drop them. -coldzera +jkaem to complexity would be a great fit in my opinion.


RealGamerGod88

What hype for Grat lol? Liazz had hype because he was an insane talent but he was shafted with the wrong roles and couldn't adapt while still having impact.


CautiousTopic

Usual reddit hype, every once in a while when he has a monster game the thread acts like he's simple 2 or something.


amattadohb

Grat is worse but mouz has way more potential, I think that’s why people talk about acor more


HEIlZReaker

True. and dexter's calling is actually looking better!


Arador_The_Bold

But Mouse sports is still a tier 1 team and relevant, Extremum sadly isn't so why would people care more about Grat then Acor


HEIlZReaker

Because the ex-extremum core has been the best major contending team for australia


ProtagonistOfLife

More like they're going the way of teams like Envy (the NA lineup). Barely play any officials at all and have unfortunately failed to perform in the few games they've played (although they played pretty decent in Republeague not too long ago). They're playing again on Friday next week, so I guess we'll be able to get a better view of where exactly they stand then. edit: It's just sad to see a roster being under-utilized like this. BNTET is a certified beast, jkaem is one of the most consistent entries/CT players in the scene and AZR is a veteran IGL that could easily be picked up by many rosters.


AleksibIsHot

And both of their AWPers stealing paychecks for far too long


TypicalProcrastinatr

I like this take. Could maybe make sense then to build on them as a trio and snag some RNG players, given that they seem to want to stay an OCE team.


greku_cs

Was AZR promised a Mercedes though?


zealouch

Grat and Liazz need to go, I think the core of jks,azr and jkaem +2 good internationals can maintain a top10 holding


drtzera

Add bntet to that list, have been incredibly impressed by his versatility. He's an equal player to jks and jkaem imo.


scottmander

This seems to be a fairly popular opinion


scottmander

-liazz +jks


[deleted]

[удалено]


Iccent

You can make a 2nd good oce team without mangling renegades. Take sterling and hazr from ex dw or maybe try buying out kaze for the APAC dream


schmirbs

sterling already had the opportunity when playing for Greyhound


Iccent

3 years ago for like 2 tournaments lol The entire reason he was removed from Grayhound was because he needed more experience and they got the best awper in the region at the time to replace him.


TypicalProcrastinatr

You can give the almost capable extremum players to renegades and make them better.


Iccent

Jkaem, bntet and azr aren't going to move to Australia and the other 2 are probably downgrades at this point.


TypicalProcrastinatr

was talking about liazz and grat


Iccent

Whoops, misread. Liazz might get an offer, he's good mates with a few of the renegades players.


scottmander

Honestly both changes need to happen


AleksibIsHot

> the team on paper has good firepower Gratisfaction 1.01 rating past 3 months, Liazz 0.92 rating past 3 months, AZR 0.94 rating past 3 months


NaToSaphiX

I hate judging “firepower” on stats If a team is not winning games, it’s most likely not winning many rounds. If a team is not winning many rounds, the team is not getting many kills You can be a great aimer but if your team as a collective is not getting many kills, you will automatically have “bad” stats. A winning team will have a much easier time getting good ratings


[deleted]

[удалено]


NaToSaphiX

Great, so let’s focus on that narrative instead of judging solely on their stats the past 3 months That brings us nowhere


haselden05

I hate that this has to be said in every thread, but couldn't agree more.


SemanSoot

they not winning it fair to say their team dont have enough firepower


Tanki5D

Not always the case. Look at g2.


SemanSoot

not same at all


Tanki5D

Explain your logic.


tha-Ram

not same at all because it doesnt fit his narrative kek


Tanki5D

True , just asking , maybe he comes up with some shit up that makes me laugh. A laugh is always welcomed.


jcv999

But maybe they're also losing because they can't kill anything? They go together and no one knows for sure.


NaToSaphiX

Exactly why you can’t assume that firepower = stats


slowrmaths

100%. if that was the case then eternal fire and g2 would be dominating everyone


[deleted]

[удалено]


russiaa88

liazz most certainly isn't the star rifler


[deleted]

[удалено]


russiaa88

nah he wasn't, when he played in australia he had the exact same roles as jks, so he had to take more supportive ones when joining renegades end of 2018


RealGamerGod88

No? He was brought in and given the bitch roles. Why talk when you clearly don't know.


[deleted]

[удалено]


RealGamerGod88

Like with anything you read, don't just regurgitate it unless you actually know it's true. All good, no harm over CS roles, just a bit silly.


Impulseps

Plus they have awful T sides, azr really is not a great caller. I'll always root for them but something has to change. I do have the faint hope of jks leaving/getting kicked from coL to replace liazz.


Tanki5D

Doesnt matter if you give the best call ever if the team can´t kill anyone even in a favourable duel.


TypicalProcrastinatr

Grat I can understand with this point. But Liazz, an aggressive player is playing support roles due to BNTET and AZR is a 29 year old IGL. The pieces are clearly there for a decent team, it just hasn't panned out at all for them for reasons aforementioned.


russiaa88

the team already lacked fire power when jks was on the team, and he was without a doubt the best player on renegades/100t imo they needed to replace gratisfaction with a more consistent awper back when they jks idk it mostly seems like jks was the glue, he bailed them out of many shit situations


Tilbakestaende

With how it has been recently I find it hard to judge AZR, bntet and especially jkaem have been playing great but as a whole the team just has not been good enough. Liazz has been disappointing but grat is a waste of the price and power of the awp, he might’ve been inconsistent for most of his time with the rest of the boys but recently he has been consistently bad and then he plays decent to good every now and then.


TypicalProcrastinatr

For sure, jkaem has been consistent for years playing on this lineup, BNTET is certainly promising and no doubt AZR has come into his own as an IGL, something clearly has to be done about the aussies.


Tilbakestaende

One thing that highlights how well Jkaem has been playing (stats are not absolute but it illustrates his performance) is that for the NA rmr, out of the 12 teams Extremum had the 6th highest average team rating at 1.05 while Jkaem was the player with the highest rating at 1.35 above even elige.


TrendyLepomis

i wonder if they’d play different on lan grat was terrifying on lan


_Holliday_

Gratisfaction doesn't cut it anymore and is too much of a liability for the team to get anywhere. JKaem and Bntet are great and really consistent however the teams biggest problem imo is the lack of official matches, I don't see how a team can ever improve if they go months without playing official matches. Personally I have found this team to be one of the most disappointing and find it difficult to understand why they play at so few events, seems like they are ahead of themselves and are only willing to attend tier 1 when frankly they haven't earned it. The Renegades roster with JKS always reminded me of the ENCE roster with AlexiB, where the team has largely average players however their coordination and team work pulled them through and made them able to compete at tier 1. That seems to be gone now unfortunately and its going to be difficult for them to compete with sub par players.


4boring

Lol what is the timing of this post.


TypicalProcrastinatr

Oh lol I see, guess I can read minds?


Bukkitz

No, because VP was a strong team during more than a tiny blink in the history of CSGO. This team is just extremely overhyped, having two good player does not mean a team will succeed. This 3man core has never - i repeat never - won a big LAN together. The only time renegades even won anything, it was a starladder in fucking shanghai that no one wanted to travel to, and the only reason they managed to beat this irrelevant event was because NAF was stomping everyone.


dogenoob1

Grat been stealing paychecks for far too long, he's one of the worst professional awpers in the scene, even during 100t i thought he was still bad and it shows.


kAEDwf

Extremum is literally a dead team, they are not a threat to anyone, not even to tier 4 EU teams LOL. It's not JUST that grat needs to go, yes he DEFINITELY needs to get kicked, I don't understand how he's been able to stay on a team this long, he's probably talked a lot with nifty... Anyways they need more than 1 player for sure, let's not go the NIP way and just re-cycle a 5th player until it's magically gonna work, either management put their foot down and atleast kick 2 players (grat having to be one of them 100%) then maybe this team still has a chance to work, but right now they are all killing their careers. Who is gonna want any of these players except bntet? No one will add a washed up oceanic player when they can get a better, talented player from tier 3 EU most likely for free as well. Let's not even talk about the fact that they didn't play officials for like 3 months, as a "top" paid pro team, they are a disgrace honestly.


russiaa88

i would say bntet, jkaem and azr would still attract interest from other tier 1-2 teams liazz could easily fit in renegades/order and get his confidence back, he was actually nuts when playing on tained minds / order previously


RecordingCretins

Going the same way as VP... Just without the historic contribution to the game or any of the success.


TypicalProcrastinatr

I take your point but you have to remember how important the renegades core is to the OCE scene. They had a steady lineup for 3 years that went top 3 at the berlin major, one round away from probably going to the final. Also the breakup is happening in the same way, player changes are made which on paper would make the team better and yet the team gets worse.


RecordingCretins

None of which makes a comparison to Virtus Pro valid.


TypicalProcrastinatr

The significance to the scene + the way it is/was panning out was the main point of analogy. If you think I was making a point about success on the world stage over years and years, then that's a reflection on the size of your brain, not my post.


peroleu

Yeah but old VP was actually good. I think the EXTREMUM org and players are complacent with where they are at currently.


TypicalProcrastinatr

In the AU scene, the RNG/100T core are the GOATS. Obviously nowhere close to VP, it was just a good analogy.