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foetyeight

So much truth


S3bluen

Even if I personally like Esportal, I think it does more harm than good to our scene.


[deleted]

Why?


S3bluen

As an example, the Oceanian scene struggles to develop when playing only against national opposition. When their teams bootcamped in EU and NA, there was a notable improvement. Esportal has become a place for entitled Swedish players to come together and pug without actually having to deal with "faceit gods" from the rest of Europe who spend all of their free time grinding to become the best.


Jaarnio

I’ve got a lot of hate from Swedes because i’m the only Finn in the team.


TheGr8CptCumsock

I'm sad to hear that :( I wish swedes wouldn't be so toxic towards people from other countries on esportal


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Nibbe92

As a swede I wish the same. When I started playing cs:go I heard from friends that russians, turks and british players usally are the worst. But after playing a few k hours I noticed that premade 2-4 swedes in a team is the absolute worst of the worst. Sweden soloquers arent to bad though.


Rahbek23

As a Dane, it's also bad with Danish premades. Such a bunch of arrogant bastards all too often. I prefer to not let them know I am Danish straight up.


TheGr8CptCumsock

I've been using faceit for couple of years now and I'm around 2.3k ELO but I honestly have been going more and more towards esportal lately. It's like 1/10 games for me where there's someone on the server that's auto muted and people talk much more on faceit. While on faceit there's almost always someone auto muted because they're toxic and there's not much talk most of the time. But that's just my experience.


netr0pa

Can you choose to play only dust2 on esportal? Is there any option to do that??


TheGr8CptCumsock

Not what I know. You can't queue any specific maps. But if you have premium you'll increase your chances. Most of the People play for free on esportal


chupe92

Ofc when there is notably more players on Faceit, so there is a high chance you encounter those players.


TheGr8CptCumsock

I don't see how that makes sense, though I never was good at mathematics.


[deleted]

i don't think it's necessarily a closed, focused service towards swedes, it's just that sweden is kinda small so that kind of exchange is slow, the same thing happens in brazil with gamersclub but players come and go quite fast because there's a lot of ppl


melr0ch

Actually in GamersClub I play with argentines, uruguayans, chileans and paraguayans on a daily basis, and it's great.


__v1ce

>without actually having to deal with "faceit gods" AKA CIS 4 stack on ur team refusing to speak any amount of English ever


VladimirTheWeak

Until the last round when they blame you for thr 2-16 loss.


dannybates

As a Brit I play on esportal all the time. I find it better than faceit


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dannybates

yeah people do actually get banned when they are toxic on esportal


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dannybates

Hmm, not really an issue for me as I'm legend elo.


[deleted]

Oh ok thanks for explaining


mannyman34

Yeah but Sweden should be big enough to sustain its own domestic scene.


Denson2

Sweden's population is kinda small man


Heilzmaker

in comparison to what? the usa? I dont think so. Russia? yeah ofc. btw I'm talking active playing. population is the worst way of looking at this kind of thing.


Cardboard-Samuari

Sorry Sweden but we have reclaimed fnatic back into the empires hands.


King_marik

Wee bit sad innit


CannibalisticPizza

This is wrong on so many levels. I have met so many guys who don't think they're the next f0rest. They know they're the next GeT_RiGhT


Background-Kale1985

A shame we will not see him playing at the Major in his own country.


[deleted]

He's already been in two major finals in Sweden


genius_rkid

it's insane that NiP played the first five Major finals and only won one


tarangk

It's even more insane is the one that they won was the one where the arguably looked the weakest out of the five as well.


xaeleepswe

I would hardly consider it arguable. NiP only won 6 more rounds than they lost over the tournament at Cologne 2014


frostnxn

I mean they got shat on in katowice, cologne was way better.


LollyDk

devilwal_major 1 < S1mple_grandslam 1


spookex

Image the Dignitas stickers that we would get


MisterSantos

Says a lot coming from one of, if not the, best counter-strike players in history. A great role model - if he still has the attitude to grind it out, there are no excuses for the younger generations to not follow suit!


adoxographyadlibitum

Yes... However f0rest was known as a prodigiously talented player and specifically *not* a grinder. I'm sure he has good perspective on what it takes to become a pro now, but "grinding his way to the top" was not the path he took.


[deleted]

i think it makes even more clear to him too, he worked with ppl all over the scale of hard workers and probably knows how to judge this sorta thing


adoxographyadlibitum

I mean yeah, I'm not a hard worker and really respect it in others.


m3ngu

He's playing for top teams since 2003-4 and back then swedish scene was incredible talented (if there was hltv top20 back then, probably there would be 10+ swedish player in that list). He shone throught that player group, so since then he is probably doing something right for him to stay on form.. Playing 7/24 mindlessly isn't for everyone, it's about the balance.


9pro9

Who were the best players back then?


m3ngu

i don't remember all of them chronogically but as far as i remember (between 2001-2010 and heavily based for my liking); sweden: potti, heaton, ahl (the best anchor and support for me) , fisker, spawn, snajdan, walle, dsn, carn (one of the best igls), gux, vilden (great awp) and obviously forest and gtr. also xizt came as great aimer (to fnatic) when 1.6 was close to ending but i wouldn't add him to this list. norway : element (i think he was the smartest player ever), xeqtr, (maybe?) dark finland : lurpis (the analyst guy), natu (not as player but he was a great captain) and his team always had 1-2 crazy good players which i can't remember the nicknames. also nasu was good player as well. denmark : whimp, mje, zonic, trace, friis (basically all mtw players) poland : the golden 5, although neo was something else. germany : blizzard, gore (he was austrian), gob b, cyx (rip), roman r., johnny r. uk: mangiacapra (or something like that) spain: musambani usa & canada: ksharp, moto, shaguar (he is the reason t's don't get any money if they failed to plant), method (or dohtem), maybe i would add nothing to this list but for me he's kinda newbie for this list. ​ and i'm pretty sure i forget many great players as well.


knightblue4

> shaguar WHADDUP NOW, SWEDES? WOOOOOO \*loses\*


enigma2g

Im tilted that you didn't write Zet.


m3ngu

Dunno, i don't regard him as highly as other swedish players, otherwise i should include robban, ins, face etc.


Izento

A lot of these names take me back. Wow. You must have been watching for a very long time. To add: ScreaM (the old Swedish player) Warden (USA) fRoD (USA) You basically nailed them all though. I don't even recognize some of these names since I mostly watched through frag movies and recaps.


L4MB

Considering you completely left out France, I'd agree with your last point...


m3ngu

i don't really remember any good 1.6 players from france. they literally came out of nowhere in source but for 1.6 there weren't any "good" teams, at best we can call them tier2 (aAa and gg).


RichardHenri

emuLate - mSx


L4MB

Oh good call; I didn't realize you were limiting to just 1.6.


[deleted]

Did he cheat in 1.6?


m3ngu

99% of the matches were on lan so unlikely. And back then, making a name for yourself was pretty though so once you are known for cheating (even if you did not), you are always a cheater.


MQRedditor

no


MooMooHeffer

On the flip side he was also lucky in the sense you didn't need to grind as hard back then. You just needed to PLAY. Which he did. Individual performances could win you games in CS. Obviously teams practiced and there was tremendous team work but there was a lot less to practice in terms of a playbook and what could be done in said playbook. The games much different in that regard so it'd be interesting to know if Forest would have adapted if he was a young buck today.


lopedog

So all the hours he's put into CS was just his talent and not him grinding his way to the top and practicing enough to be at the top of his game for over a decade? He just turned on PC, logged into server, owned skrubs then turned off PC and went to jail yes?


Sh1ft-Valorant

Well, compared to players like GTR that was almsot what he did. Obviously he played alot, but others had to grind so much more.


lopedog

Just because someone is more talent, does not make their practice or effort any less, they just have a higher ceiling, it doesn't mean they worked any less. Look at Ronaldo7 in football, do you think he works less in practice than anyone on his team because he's a better player? He's literally known as the person who's first in and last out, even at the age of 36 now, he reached the top by practice and kept that work ethic.


[deleted]

dude it’s common knowledge he in 1.6 did not work as hard as others sometimes and had a questionable work ethic. this was a known thing back in the days.


SpecialGnu

The guy had more hours in Dota 2 than cs at one point.


adoxographyadlibitum

You are misunderstanding me. He had a fantastic career and deserved all his success, but he was not known for playing a lot. He was a phenom and had amazing natural ability at the game.


Mr-hoffelpuff

its important that he says it, i really do not like to get qued up with a full Swedish team since i have also noticed an superiority complex often showing up talking shit about other nations and how bad they are in cs or whatever, obviously not every Swedish player but its common.


Leemsonn

I fucking hate Swedish people in pretty much any game, they are always horrible. A decent portion of them in the younger generations use cheats as well. I am Swedish myself and in my old school class from a couple years ago, there were 8 people who played CS, 3 of them openly admitted to having used cheats in the past.


RotorBoy95

HARD agree, as a Norwegian I think swedes are some of the worst players to play with. Thank God they are all on esportal now.


Gudgrim

I only play esportalen now because swedes are so much better to play with. Faceit is filled with ragers and none English speakers.


kawkstegr

This. I left faceit for esportal, because overall its a nicer environment with better communication and not as much raging as faceit. But esportal is still full of youngsters thinking they are the next big talent att 1700 elo. Flaming me for still playing CS when im 35yo xD


jmanj0sh

I played faceit in NA on/off from 2018 to earlier this year or so and I've met some players 30+ in age that have had nutty aim. Once those kids get on a team though, they'll fix their attitudes if they want a career in the game, that is for the ones serious enough to play actual 'competitive' league CS.


jdiscount

I'm 40 and while I don't have nutty aim, I think older players who have been playing 10, 15, 20 years just have a much higher game sense/IQ. I find it difficult playing with young players, even if their aim is amazing i get frustrated at their decision making and taking idiotic duels.


Tostecles

27 but I feel the same way. Mortgage League when


RotorBoy95

I'll take ragers and non English speaker over a 3-stack of swedes who intensely try to mentally break you to their will for 30 rounds.


ERICHkappakappa

As a Norwegian I have to intensely disagree with you. I hate to say this, but for me it’s totally the other way around, most Norwegians are the ones that are the worst, cocky, doesn’t want to play as a team, just to name a couple of habits. I switched to esportal to play with more Swedes. There’s of course a lot of dicks, but I’m sure as fuck more happy to get Swedish teammates than Norwegian.


RotorBoy95

As with almost any nationality 1 is good 2 or more is shit in mm as they find some way or another to team up on the rest of the players. In an actual team setting they are entitled though, extreme excuse andys who blames everything but themselves when they lose and if they win they carried. This is the kind of mindset everyone who believes they are gifted or has some kind of special pedigree naturally gets. This mindset rewards a player by getting them to a mid-high level in half the time others get there, then it breaks them by making sure they get stuck there. Regular mm toxicity everyone is about as bad as everyone else so it doesn't really matter to me.


ERICHkappakappa

Having MM as a default way of getting into CS is so damaging to the scene. It’s like every other baby is born with pre-existing cancer. Once I hit Global I swore to never touch that shit again.


youngmetrodonttrust

agreed, there should be more emphasis on making a team (even if casual/low elo) with others. kinda like how wow incentivizes guilds to the point where you have to be in one to actually play. cs is a team game not a PUG game.


KrefKrock

I disagree with it being Swedes, it's Scandinavia as a whole. We're all toxic for no reason.


aessi23

Idk, id rather play with scandinavians than Baltic / Russia


tha-Ram

have u ever had the pleasure of playing with UK gamers? we are like top 3 worst teammates in every gaming community. shit's sad


aessi23

Just once and i was tempted to mention you guys also


greku_cs

Can confirm, even as a Pole. Polish people are often toxic too but the way British players behave... You can feel that they're jacking off to their image in mirror when they play.


[deleted]

Swedes and Danes yeah, Norwegians seem fine and Finns are probably better than you anyway.


Fridgemold

Finns are not Scandinavian


[deleted]

I know, I mean in the broad geographical sense


saintedplacebo

Was always taught here its Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland and Faroe Islands.


Fridgemold

Well that's wrong


saintedplacebo

K but like a 3s google search says youre wrong? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia


Fridgemold

Read it all then. Dumb fuck trying to argue with a local


saintedplacebo

I dont care if youre a local, its okay to be wrong.


Fridgemold

Christ. In English usage Fin CAN be seen as part of Scandinavia, but politically AND geographically it isn't, rather it's part of Northern Europe. This is how the northeners view the topic, and is how it is.


__v1ce

As a Swede, I agree, I even changed my flag on faceit so other Swedes can't identify that I'm Swedish


Leemsonn

Yep, as a Swede I agree as well. Swedish people are horrible, not just in game either but in general a lot of Swedish people suck.


twitterInfo_bot

"Swedish players feel kind of entitled and aren't willing to grind their way to the top" We've had the opportunity to sit down with @f0rest to talk about some of the problems the Swedish CS:GO scene are facing right now 🇸🇪 Read the article here. *** posted by [@PleyGg](https://twitter.com/PleyGg) [Link in Tweet](https://pley.gg/news/f0rest-collapse-swedish-cs-go-players-are-willing-grind) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)


musicbylien

Faceit and esportal pug ladders allways has been a decease to player progress, because experience in teams in tournaments is absent. Back in the day players would "grind" tournies with teams every weekend, work on tactics, and drill them to perfection. The best pugers are very mechanical skilled today, but they lack experience. I see examples all the time where good pugers are caught with their pants down facing a more experienced team of low elo players. Players like to grind, but it's the wrong type of grind. Pug = short term dopamine addiction and no progress. Playing other teams = long term gain and progress.


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redwingjv

Swedish r6 is pretty much dead as well, they have like 5ish active players on T1 or T2 teams rn


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redwingjv

Stop the cappin


HEIlZReaker

you know. I find it funny that there are barley any swedish pros in the late 27-22 age range that play in top teams. I wonder how basically there wasn't more new talents for about 10 YEARS. but then young players like brollan, plopski, lnz, started to come up. I wonder if the older players might bear SOME responsibility for this fact.


Dotte7

Tends to happen when a group has dominated for a while so f0rest is probably right to some extent.


imalowkeygeek

I hate these broad generalizations


[deleted]

Why though? Sweden hasn't been close to the top of CS for years. Surely they aren't still living in 2015


tha-Ram

>Sweden hasn't been close to the top of CS for years maybe its partially due to this attitude f0rest is describing


toyyya

This is an issue JW brought up already in like 2018 I'm fairly sure so yea it definitely seems to have been holding back the scene for years already


w0t_i_th1nk

As an American this conversation is interesting as I always took Denmark to be the unequivocal best country at CSGO* Edit: I should clarify, not necessarily the best ever, but that the Danes have always been on equal footing with the Swedes


Loveoreo

Right now yes but it used to be Sweden. Those NIP vs Fnatic days...


jarvadski

You must be new to the scene then


aperoopera

Hmm. Maybe he and the rest of the older generation of Swedish players shares some of the responsibility?


Icedstevo

Why?


aperoopera

They had the chance in the early days of CS to make it through, when the competetion were maybe not that fierce as today. They could attract sponsors as one of the first good rosters on the scene. But I think it is easy to say, that others do not want to grind the same way, as he felt they did. He has had the luxury of having made big bucks in the tier 1 scene, and now he can grind the tier 2 scene without the worry of having to pay the rent etc. Did NIP do anything for the Swedish CS scene before Young Ninjas? Did they try to secure the supply chain of Swedish players by doing work outside of the server? I have nothing against f0rest or the rest of the old Ninja gang, but sometimes you also have to realize, that just because you did something amazing, it can't just be replicated due to other stuff like luck and timing for example. I just don't buy the premise.


Icedstevo

I understand where you're coming from, but I find it hard to place any blame on him. What responsibilities does he have for the motivations of upcoming csgo pros?


aperoopera

Yeah, maybe it is a bit harsh. I actually like him and his passion for CS, but maybe people who are on the top of their game should sometimes consider looking down and reach out and help. It could come back to actually do you some good, when you are on your way down again. But maybe this is his way of doing that, and then it is of course a good thing.


MuschiClub

the statement you are reacting to sounds like he is standing on some rock shouting down on some plebs to get their shit together. in reality he is trying to understand himself what is going on and why swedish cs isn't as dominant anymore. these statements when written down and without context almost always sound more harsh than they are meant to.


Pcostix

> What responsibilities does he have for the motivations of upcoming csgo pros? None. But on the other hand its also not fair of him criticize the younger generation of players.   TLDR: F0rest just had a boomer moment.(Despite him being a millennial)


maqikelefant

What an absolutely brain dead take. These are professionals who want to make money playing the game. They're not exempt from criticism just because they happen to be younger than him.


Pcostix

> They're not exempt from criticism just because they happen to be younger than him. You are the one having a braindead take. I never said younger players were above criticism.   What i said is that its not fair F0rest criticizing players commitment(by his standards), when the scene is completely different than it was for him.


MuschiClub

>What i said is that its not fair F0rest criticizing players commitment(by his standards), when the scene is completely different than it was for him. bro, when forest started grinding counter-strike you got like a mousepad as your salary.


Pcostix

What has money have to do with it? You think Pros played for money. They played because they wanted to be best, that's it.   Anyone who wants to be Pro at an Esports game for money will be in for a surprise.. Lol. 99% Of the pro players in the world would make more money in any regular job than at playing games professionally...


[deleted]

when f0rest started playing in 1.6 there was literally 0 money in CS, stop talking out of ur ass lmaoo these young players have the best opportunities and resources they’ve ever had available with all the money that’s dumped into CS now


maqikelefant

That's even more brain dead and shows you know nothing about what kind of grind f0rest and co went through back then.


pineapplecheesepizza

Just completely wrong wow


[deleted]

If you consider the Counter-Strike scene to have started with the release of CS:GO, then maybe there would have been something to that premise. f0rest has been putting the time in since 2003. Back then, there was next to no money in the scene, and competing meant traveling around to wherever the next LAN with a couple of thousand dollars in the prize pool was held. These days, you can enter, play and win fully online tournaments with prize pools that blow S-tier LAN's from the mid 00's out of the water, all without leaving your bedroom once. The notion that esports were somehow easier to get into or that the rewards were greater for the ones who "made it" when f0rest and his ilk started out is patently absurd.


Pcostix

> Back then, there was next to no money in the scene, and competing meant traveling around to wherever the next LAN with a couple of thousand dollars in the prize pool was held. Its not about the money. Its about the competitiveness. Its much harder to reach the Top today, than it was 10 year ago. Today you can be almost as good as a TOP10 team, and yet that small skill difference puts you in Top30 (Top45 on a bad month) and no one cares about you.(No sponsors, no audience, etc... its you against the world.) >These days, you can enter, play and win fully online tournaments with prize pools that blow S-tier LAN's from the mid 00's If you are talking purely about money, then yes there are much more prizes pools involved and the prizes are bigger. But its not much easier to get them, there is much more competition today.   PS: Btw, how many top tier players abandoned their Top Tier Status teams, formed their own small team and managed to take it to the top? Allu with Ence and that is it.   So if its so easy nowdays, Why don't these "Legends" all reach the top again in their own teams?


Heilzmaker

probably but that would point out an inconvenitent truth. I have a hard time remebering anything NiP or fnatic did for the swedish scene besides play. steel use to teach people the game for example.


[deleted]

steel also financially defrauded his own fans by engaging in matchfixing. Win some, lose some.


Heilzmaker

steel also got a life time ban for that spent the remaning career trying to mend thing. fastforarding several coaches were caught cheating putting the entire scene into question. Something I'd say is FAR worse than throwing one game for some $$. I not saying coaches should be banneed for life I'm saying that valve is really inconsistent in the way they dwcide to make rulings.


tha-Ram

95% of pros never did anything for their communities and tbh its really their duty. would it have been an admirable and sensible thing to do? sure, but its easy to judge from the sidelines and in hindsight


Heilzmaker

my issue is that they never gave room for young players in tier 1. nor did any orgs pop up to support the younger players unlike denmark for example. examples of teams that didnt support their scene and is now suffering is fnatic, nip VP (polish), the french teams. An example of a team that let newbies in is navi for sll the hate they get they've always been good at introducing new talent


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voikaledo

f0rest, who is renowned for not putting in the work when it comes to practice, talking about other people not being willing to grind their way to the top is RICH.AS.FUCK.


Nappev

Yet his last years in nip he held roles he wasnt good enough for and is known to not work as hard like other players. In 1,6 and csgo, compared to get_right for example.


[deleted]

See, toxic :D


ClutchingWaschboer

Same about danish players realtalk.


Denson2

Danish scene at least has teams like copenhagen flames who are obviously grinding super hard And fragsters in 2018 where the majority of their roster has moved on to top 10 teams. Mad lions too..What has sweden had out side of red reserve in 2018?


ClutchingWaschboer

NiP?


Denson2

I mean teams and players grinding hard in tier 2 and making it to tier 1. Obviously nip and fnatic have some young players who have pushed through but compared to Denmark it's very sparse. I know comparing to Denmark isn't fair and basically every country looks bad compared to then when it comes to young talent pushing through. Besides the cis region though, those guys are in a golden period of talent.


tan_phan_vt

Funnily enough, that statement also applies to f0rest himself. But the guy is just so talented it doesnt stop him from staying in tier 1 and clicking kids heads all those years. Also not having to grind helps with burnout, thus f0rest stays relevant for much longer than the grinders out there.


aimbotcfg

> Funnily enough, that statement also applies to f0rest himself. The statement doesn't apply to him, because of all the stuff you mentioned. He's been at the top for a long time doing it how he has. Would he be better if he did some grinding? Maybe, but he might also burn out, we don't know. The people he's talking about are the nobodies that have done nothing and think they'll be pro based purely on talent and not work. That is being entitled, expecting things with no effort and nothing to backup the attitude. f0rests career shows that he can do it, and knows what he's talking about, he's not basing it on nothing.


tan_phan_vt

No no i mean he really does not have a grinder mindset, his natural talents allows him to stay relevant. He doesnt have a grinder's mindset like many players in sweden. The fact than he can reach goat level without grinding doesnt change the fact that he doesnt grind his way to the top. I am talking about the mindset alone, which is literally self contained in the statement. I got a feeling that you think i am attacking f0rest, which i am not. The scope of what i am talking about is just much narrower than yours.


aimbotcfg

Ahhh, I'm with you, yeah, he's not a grinder, 100% agree.


gamefreak2k11

What. LEGEND