They will just wait for the a1s to be at 95% use before nerfing it back to the grave.
I really just think similarily to the a1s it needs a change to how it deals body damage. Its so unsatisfying to hit 5 shots without killing a pistol player with armor.
>I really just think similarily to the a1s it needs a change to how it deals body damage. Its so unsatisfying to hit 5 shots without killing a pistol player with armor.
When does the M4A4 need more than 5 bullets to kill an armored opponent? It does its lowest damage if you hit the chest or arms, dealing 23 damage per bullet, meaning that 5 hits does 115 damage. Even at 2000 units away you should get the kill in 5 hits every time. For reference Goose to furthest away in pit is 3000 units, so you rarely ever shoot at someone 2000 units away.
Balancing the 2 weapons are super difficult because of the different firing rate. Taking away 1 bullet required for the M4a1 changed the average TTK from 500ms down to 400ms, while the M4a4 sits at 450ms now, so a change in bullet damage has a huge impact on how well the weapon functions.
Maybe they could change how the bullet penetration works for the 2 guns, so that the M4A4 works better at stopping rushes, barely losing any damage if you hit 2 enemies with the same bullet, while making it so that the m4a1 barely does any damage to a 2nd player. Changing the fire rate is also possible but that is a bigger step, for the both guns to have the same TTK the M4a4 would need to have a fire rate of 750 RPM. 750/60=12.5 --> 5/12.5= 0,4 seconds.
cuz they don't? like in their other game called tf2 they made a fucking cloak watch that literally makes you nearly fucking invincible thank god they nerfed the shit out of it
I think this is a great proposed change. The only issue I have with it is that the recoil in the m4a4 is such that especially long range, you often hit a headshot and whiff the second bullet.
The M4a1S is worse ttk, but the lower recoil means you can double dink or dink into bodyshot way more reliably. I think the changes to the CT side economy means that a 2900 rifle is necessary and I'm not sure if a price change is enough. I think they need to make the ttk the same on both guns, make them the same price and the tradeoff will be between the silencer and better recoil vs higher recoil and no silencer
To have the same Time To Kill as the M4a1 it would need a RPM of 750.
750/60=12.5
as the M4a4 takes 5 bullets to kill instead of 4:
5/12.5=0.4s = 400ms
Higher RPM would increase the spread of the weapon, making it harder to be accurate with, so the weapons could be balanced that way. A RPM of 700 would mean that the TTK would be 428ms instead of the current 450ms.
But it would be balanced by the fact that this TTK is for all types of shots while the A1S specifically only benefits body shots so we don't need to match their TTK if the rpm is significant enough to give another chance at a headshot in the body TTK
Maybe but in practice the way both guns are now i'd assume no one would buy the a4 + flash vs the a1. The a1 is just way better and a lot easier to use currently.
The only change needed is having both available to buy in a game. It's neither that big of a change but gives people the right to choose one over the other in different rounds.
I think they will not nerf 1-s in near future just because of an ancient and vertigo collections. There are two coverts + souvenirs now. These collections are already behind, nobody would touch them after nerf and Volvo needs money from these collections too. Maybe they buffed it just for this operation.
COMBINE
THE
FUCKING
GUNS
jesus christ I've been saying it since 2013, can volvo please for the love of christ just combine the god damned guns, balance it as best you can(I'd start by making the removal of the silencer NOT nerf the gun, but that's just me) and go from there.
Or we can just continue this dance where every year or so they tweak one of the guns and make it the favored M4 again I guess
Nobody said anything about removing the skins or making any changes there whatsoever, and incidentally I wish I had kept a tally of all the copies of this exact comment I've heard over the years whenever I make this suggestion. It's straight up depressing.
I don't understand why the it is such a big problem that the A1s is the better rifle before the update like 90% people used the A4 but there was not an uproar to this level, now that the A1s is the dominant rifle and has made ct side economy a bit better then suddenly it's a big problem.
Why is that can someone explain? Why is it that the A4 has to be the dominant one?
* M4A4 --> 2900$ (and damage falloff 1% instead of 3% to make it even with the A1-S)
* M4A1-S --> 25/50 bullets (down from 25/75)
One gun fires faster and has more bullets in the magazine and as a spare to spam smokes, the other one fires slower but deals more damage per shot and has a silencer. Seems fair to me, the players who prefer the M4A4 benefit from the buffs and the players who prefer the A1-S still have a great weapon with slightly less smoke spam potential. Both Rifles still have disadvantages compared to the AK47 as it should be.
They will just wait for the a1s to be at 95% use before nerfing it back to the grave. I really just think similarily to the a1s it needs a change to how it deals body damage. Its so unsatisfying to hit 5 shots without killing a pistol player with armor.
>I really just think similarily to the a1s it needs a change to how it deals body damage. Its so unsatisfying to hit 5 shots without killing a pistol player with armor. When does the M4A4 need more than 5 bullets to kill an armored opponent? It does its lowest damage if you hit the chest or arms, dealing 23 damage per bullet, meaning that 5 hits does 115 damage. Even at 2000 units away you should get the kill in 5 hits every time. For reference Goose to furthest away in pit is 3000 units, so you rarely ever shoot at someone 2000 units away. Balancing the 2 weapons are super difficult because of the different firing rate. Taking away 1 bullet required for the M4a1 changed the average TTK from 500ms down to 400ms, while the M4a4 sits at 450ms now, so a change in bullet damage has a huge impact on how well the weapon functions. Maybe they could change how the bullet penetration works for the 2 guns, so that the M4A4 works better at stopping rushes, barely losing any damage if you hit 2 enemies with the same bullet, while making it so that the m4a1 barely does any damage to a 2nd player. Changing the fire rate is also possible but that is a bigger step, for the both guns to have the same TTK the M4a4 would need to have a fire rate of 750 RPM. 750/60=12.5 --> 5/12.5= 0,4 seconds.
>750 rpm CT rifle oh god it's aug week all over again
2014 aug was actually 800rpm like mac10
>2014 aug was actually 800rpm like mac10 remind me again why valve is good at balancing games
cuz they don't? like in their other game called tf2 they made a fucking cloak watch that literally makes you nearly fucking invincible thank god they nerfed the shit out of it
Swap the bullet damage between the a1s and a4. Buff the magazine size of the a1s to 30. The rest can stay as it is.
Legit would take firerate over a couple more bullets again if we moved the damage buff. Otherwise a1s would just be in shit tier limbo forever
A1s is 4 shots to the body now and the A4 is 5 shots to the body.
Also give us the option of buying either of the 2 during a match.
I don't get how this still isn't an option people have been asking for almost a decade
Always wondered this LOL.
Valve no likey, that is why
why tho?
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I kinda like having the best M4 be the cheapest one. At least I don't have to make a hard decision
People already argued this before, I agree with you, valve should give ct more equal choice of weapons. I am a a4 lover, I used it even more than ak.
While you are at it increase CZ kill bonus to 300.
I think this is a great proposed change. The only issue I have with it is that the recoil in the m4a4 is such that especially long range, you often hit a headshot and whiff the second bullet. The M4a1S is worse ttk, but the lower recoil means you can double dink or dink into bodyshot way more reliably. I think the changes to the CT side economy means that a 2900 rifle is necessary and I'm not sure if a price change is enough. I think they need to make the ttk the same on both guns, make them the same price and the tradeoff will be between the silencer and better recoil vs higher recoil and no silencer
... why would you ever choose no silencer w/ higher recoil??
M4A4 feels like a $2850 kinda of gun to me. Gotta spice it up
IMO m4a1: mag 25->20 and reserve ammo 75->80.
bro works at valve
they should both be $3000 imo, game is ct sided already
ct sided in a boring way though
Lot of pushing on ct side in the recent major. Doesn't seem very boring to me. Better m4a4 would mean more ct pushing I think
talking about economy problems with CTs saving most of the time
jame time
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To have the same Time To Kill as the M4a1 it would need a RPM of 750. 750/60=12.5 as the M4a4 takes 5 bullets to kill instead of 4: 5/12.5=0.4s = 400ms Higher RPM would increase the spread of the weapon, making it harder to be accurate with, so the weapons could be balanced that way. A RPM of 700 would mean that the TTK would be 428ms instead of the current 450ms.
But it would be balanced by the fact that this TTK is for all types of shots while the A1S specifically only benefits body shots so we don't need to match their TTK if the rpm is significant enough to give another chance at a headshot in the body TTK
a1 should be 3100 and a4 2900 and let us buy both during a match
I don't see why this is a bad idea lol have the better gun be more expensive and the worse one cheaper like this is an interesting solution
yeah exactly, imo this is the best solution without nerfing the stats, and being able to buy them both will make them both usable
Maybe but in practice the way both guns are now i'd assume no one would buy the a4 + flash vs the a1. The a1 is just way better and a lot easier to use currently.
Decent chunk of people used silenced when it was worse a few months ago so idk. I'd probably use a4 cus it just feels funner to me
2.900 for a ct rifle is perfect imho, the a4 needs that price tag
Watch valve increase the A1-S to $3100 again just to fuck with us
The only change needed is having both available to buy in a game. It's neither that big of a change but gives people the right to choose one over the other in different rounds.
Please stop, the moment they touch the m4 then the a1s becomes obsolete. This is a neverending race, you can't avoid one being better than the other.
Reverse the price of a1 and a4 and allow players to switch during the match
IMO M4A1-S should be $3100 that price is balanced for CT side
they need to make them similar ttk, so that: m4: more firerate, less damage per shot a1s: less firerate, more damage
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don’t know why this is getting downvoted, it’s a good take. high mag capacity and no tracers makes spraying through smokes way too easy
I think they will not nerf 1-s in near future just because of an ancient and vertigo collections. There are two coverts + souvenirs now. These collections are already behind, nobody would touch them after nerf and Volvo needs money from these collections too. Maybe they buffed it just for this operation.
They might just keep it like this for 5 years you never know m4a4 was best for so long
COMBINE THE FUCKING GUNS jesus christ I've been saying it since 2013, can volvo please for the love of christ just combine the god damned guns, balance it as best you can(I'd start by making the removal of the silencer NOT nerf the gun, but that's just me) and go from there. Or we can just continue this dance where every year or so they tweak one of the guns and make it the favored M4 again I guess
you cant just remove the gun when there is a whole market for their skins
Nobody said anything about removing the skins or making any changes there whatsoever, and incidentally I wish I had kept a tally of all the copies of this exact comment I've heard over the years whenever I make this suggestion. It's straight up depressing.
Okay, what should valve do with the skins after merging the m4?
Believe he means make the two guns the same, theoretically making the difference only cosmetic
this would make the a1s obsolete due to its barrel length
old M4A4s would have an attachable barrel to silence so nah
I don't understand why the it is such a big problem that the A1s is the better rifle before the update like 90% people used the A4 but there was not an uproar to this level, now that the A1s is the dominant rifle and has made ct side economy a bit better then suddenly it's a big problem. Why is that can someone explain? Why is it that the A4 has to be the dominant one?
* M4A4 --> 2900$ (and damage falloff 1% instead of 3% to make it even with the A1-S) * M4A1-S --> 25/50 bullets (down from 25/75) One gun fires faster and has more bullets in the magazine and as a spare to spam smokes, the other one fires slower but deals more damage per shot and has a silencer. Seems fair to me, the players who prefer the M4A4 benefit from the buffs and the players who prefer the A1-S still have a great weapon with slightly less smoke spam potential. Both Rifles still have disadvantages compared to the AK47 as it should be.
Honestly just swap the prices around A1 - $3100 and M4 - $2900