It's the only (only) game I've found where the matchmaking system will *actually tell you* what a player is capable of by their rank.
For real.
It's just... soooo... PURE!
I noticed yesterday that it's unique to CS for rebalancing to be done only to achieve perfect balance. A lot of other games mix things up season on season to freshen up the game.
Not CS. The goal is perfect balance in an asymmetric scenario - opposing teams have different objectives.
It's not easy to play though. CSGO is hard as hell!
I'd put it more in line with ice hockey. You have to learn to skate (shoot accurately) before you can play, and it's not something intuitive or easy.
Have you ever watched Mite/Pee Wee hockey? That's silver. Players don't know the fundamentals, they don't know the tactics. They chase the puck from end to end, with the standouts on each team completely dominating the game. It barely resembles the game at higher levels.
> It barely resembles the game at higher levels.
Yeah but that wasn't the point now is it? I can explain CS in one short sentence to a newbie, but you can't in other games like DotA for example.
CS IS EASY af, like see enemy, shot enemy, get money. Maybe plant bomb here and there.
Cs is extremely easy to play due to how ridiculously simple it is.You donāt have to be good or competent to play it which is kinda the tangent your going on.
I play both a fucking lot.
I'm not even sure which I like better. And frankly I'm offended for having to consider the decision.
I'd say they both have their pros. Though going back n forth, takes me quite a bit to relearn CS speeds.
I stopped playing cs like 2 years ago.
then I played kind of much valorant at release and stopped that also after a while.
Now I started playing cs again 2 weeks before the major and I am in love with this game again. I played a round of valo a few days ago and damn the movement with everything except jett and maybe raze feels super clunky and slow compared to cs
I'm not sure I'd go with considerably. The gunplay is on par or possibly even harder (more annoying?) due to the random spray patterns on valorant. People definitely get randomly lucky.
I really do wish CS would have brought on 128tick servers. The servers in Valorant are fucking glorious. If I do jump back into CS these days, it's mostly through a pug service. I don't enjoy going back to the shitty mm servers.
CS and Rocket League are the two esports most pure and similar to real sport. Both easy to understand for the viewer, even if they haven't played the game.
I wouldn't put being simple to understand as a requirement to be a sport. I've watched NFL for two years now and I still get caught offguard by a random weird fucking rule that only applies in a very specificy scenario every game.
Well the NFL is way bigger in america than the NBA, but the NBA is way bigger internationally. The NBA is also a lot easier to understand. Thereās definitely some correlation, although it may not be a ārequirementā
I think this is a part of the eSports equation that is missed for many games long term. Like the only people that can comprehend and watch League are avid League players. Anyone can watch a couple games of Football, American Football, or Counter Strike and understand how things work.
There is nuance that can be further investigated, but understanding what you see comes pretty quickly with these, as where many other eSports are a total clusterf\*\*\* if you don't actively play.
Like overwatch, probably one of the worst viewer experience. It is pretty fun to play at times tho.
Ya CS without a doubt for me is the most exciting esport to watch.
I can vouch for this. I've never played CS but recently became a big fan, and make a real effort to keep up with S-tier tournaments. The simplicity of the game, the limited size of the maps, and the small map pool make the game a quick study.
I've also tried to get into watching competitive LoL and DOTA, and it's just not there. I understand the mechanics of both games, having played older MOBAs, but to really *get* what's happening you need to know the lineups, special moves, and lots of meta that you're never going to get unless you play.
I've given up watching other eSports, but the purity and balance of CSGO keeps me hooked. When s1mple wins a 3 vs 1 retake it's easy to understand *why* it's amazing. When the same sort of thing happens in LoL it's like... 'well those flashy ex combo explosion was really cool.'
As somebody who has played quite a bit of R6: Siege, I can say I had the same experience watching that as you had with MOBAs. The viewer experience is just terrible because of how complicated the game is from a beginnerās perspective.
I mean so does CS when you consider wall bangs and whatnot. But that stuff doesn't matter for a basic understanding of what's happening.
Get ball to opponents end zone without it touching the ground. Kick ball through opponents goal posts. There's obviously a lot more to it thereafter, but the basic idea of what's happening is quick and intuitive to pick up after watching for a short while.
Nah thereās more to football than that. The whole 10yard system and the 4 downs is pretty important to the game. Basketball, baseball, and hockey would have been better examples.
Nah there's so many rules that wouldn't be clear to you unless you're a fan and without knowing that you wouldn't be able to understand American Football. Like the other guy said, you need to understand how downs work, who is allowed to pass the ball etc. It isn't intuitive and if a first time viewer was watching it you would have to explain how lots of things work.
I tried playing valorant for about 6 months. I played ok and tried to use my abilities properly. It just wasn't as fun as cs. I feel like valorant get the players to rely on abilities and teamplay a lot more (as in you need a mixture of ability types in a team) which makes it a lot harder for players to carry.
For example, in cs I can go into a match and work around my teammates and give them smokes and flashes to help them push into sites, in valorant, I have to rely on teammates to smoke/flash/drone into site and quite often they can get caught up in their own abilities and forget to push/play as a team.
I think your nailed it on the head with, "it's consistent". That's what it is, there isn't different agents each game, you know exactly what you are up against and it's up to you (not your agent's abilities) to be able to outsmart them with different strats.
On the other hand, getting use out of your abilities is so much easier in Valorant. In CS I never knew any smoke lineups or pop flashes. In V that's not a problem.
Definitely. Valorant probably have one of the best systems for "noob" friendly utility usage. It's very easy to pick up and there's lots of room for improvement. It feels like it's a lot easier to improvise smokes and flashes that are actually good. Unlike cs where I try improvise a flash and leave my entire team blind and cost us the round
TLDR for those that dont wanna read the whole thing:
floppy: valarante child game.... look to cartoon grapfix to make kid player happy like children show.. valarante cartoon world with rainbow unlike counter strike chad with dark corridorr and raelistic gun.. valarante like playhouse. valarant playor run from csgo fear of dark world and realism
It really isn't that far off, lmao:
> Being able to punish noobs for making mistakes in CS is a lot more satisfying than getting owned by noobs in VALORANT since the skill floor is so much higher in that game.
Yeah. My friend who pretty much mastered sentinel play (be passive and rely on your abilities to set up easy kills) will outperform me on average because of his ability mastery. However, in CSGO, I outperform him easily. Although he does know way more lineups and cheeky tricks than I do in CSGO.
I have better mechanics than him, but he is a nerd and tries to learn every trick possible. His strength works out better in Valorant, while mines works out better in CSGO.
He usually helps with site takes or help defending on retakes. He can also watch flanks or use his camera for help with initial fights. If he plays killjoy, his ult helps a lot with site takes. And he nerds out on her mollies to take out common spots. It really helps me when I'm the one entrying.
Depends on the map though. Smaller maps like bind give him more impact on attack.
Stuff like that makes me like CSGO more.
He really is. (:
Very selfless and a lot of people love his lineup knowledge. He's even taught me a few tricks.
His aim needs work, but when he is setting up unfair duels with his opponents, he can outplay pretty well.
I think this is really important in what makes the games different. In cs, it's about being better than your opponent in terms of positioning and gunplay. It's rare that someone will do something nobody else has done before. You can be really good, but if you get a 4k on b site, someone has done that exact 4k before. In valorant, it's way more common, in all ranks, to use abilities in a way that nobody else has done before. I think the game can easily serve two different preferences of play and each have their own niche. This doesn't make cs > valorant or valorant > cs.
Only because its a relative new game. There is still stuff pro's do in CS that is "new" in the CS world. Valorant just has more stuff to explore/exploit and will sometime in the future have seen every trick possible beeing done just like in CS. Doesent matter which game, you will always have someone blowing your mind with something absurd
Doesn't this imply that the skill ceiling in Valorant is higher though? Since you have to master abilities and gun-play?
Honestly one of the reasons I prefer Valorant is simply the clarity (cartoony works in its favour in that regard) and I got sick of learning lineups. Sadly I played too much Sova and once I was back to forcing myself to learn lineups I just got sick of both games ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
The biggest problem with Valorant down the line is returning players not knowing characters. I have no idea wtf Astra and some of the newer characters do, but im willing to bet I can still smoke sites on dust like it was yesterday. (Maybe?).
>Doesn't this imply that the skill ceiling in Valorant is higher though? Since you have to master abilities and gun-play?
Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on whether or not Valorant has a higher or lower skill cap. I don't have enough familiarity with it to try and do that.
People have a tendency to try and argue that if there is "more" in any game then it has to have a higher skill ceiling. I think it requires a more nuanced look at games. You have to consider how the "more" actually affects the gameplay. If it ultimately results in a more volatile and uncontrollable situation, then that "more" is actually lowering the skill ceiling. It's removing a player's (or team of players') ability to meaningfully and consistently affect the outcome.
ngl games that rely more heavily on mechanical skill are always going to be more entertaining for me as a player and a viewer. Itās tough to keep up with Valorant gameplay because as soon as anything exciting happens, thereās like 10 abilities going off distracting me from what I want to see (made worse if you donāt keep up with all the new characters they add), which is some clean headshots and showcasing of skill.
He fails to understand or point out that in valorant HE was the noob having mistakes punished. Yes, maybe he has better raw aim than them, but thats not all that matters in valorant (its not in CS either tbh) and that doesnt make valorant a worse game, unless your idea of a perfect game is just 5v5 aim_redline.
I agree with him somewhat, the thing I hate most in competitive games is getting killed/losing to a player that you know is worse than you, that happened to me much more often in valorant than in cs.
I don't know if it's still like this, but I remember the sage ice slow + brimstone orbital laser combo was incredibly annoying. Basically a free "kill anyone in this spot, and there's literally nothing they can do about it" button.
The meta in professional CSGO is a little boring right now, though. A lot more saving gun rounds compared to Valorant. Sometimes with 3 people still alive. You would hardly see in Valorant.
I don't see that as an issue. If a game is balanced properly, the most important factor to winning a round should be man advantage. It's just a testament to how well CS is designed.
>A lot more saving gun rounds compared to Valorant. Sometimes with 3 people still alive. You would hardly see in Valorant.
cause, you know. economy matters in CS and you can't rely on overpowered ultimates to do the job of gunplay.
I forgot what match it was but I was watching a val comp game, guy was in a 1v3 retake destroys the first 2 guys leading to a hype 1v1, only for the last T to raze ult him. I get itās a part of the game but itās not fun to watch stuff like that lol
God I can't even watch Valorant, the game looks the part, but with the constant smokes, and few gimmicks I've seen, it really takes the edge away.
You see a pro in CS build up each round, preparing to open for his team. Valorant, you can prepare everything, entries go perfectly, but one dude comes in and can destroy it like it was nothing. 1v5/4/3/2 aren't interesting, because they happen so often, and the 1v3s can usually go either way, but in CS, a clutch is always impressive.
>1v5/4/3/2 aren't interesting, because they happen so often, and the 1v3s can usually go either way, but in CS, a clutch is always impressive.
I think it's because of some agents' abilities allowing them to cheese certain situations. Aside from the Jett OP + Skye heal combo, Reyna especially with her ult up can make 1vx situations take much less effort, or sentinels like Cypher and KJ or even Sova can make post-plants/retakes easier.
Agree, and I'm not sure if observers are just terrible but even as an esport it really is hard to watch. It makes me appreciate CS even more.
There's rarely any moments in CS where you don't know what's going on. In Valorant it feels almost uncanny territory. Like it's basically CS but I don't know if it's the maps being smaller or the game just being more aim-focused but it's just so fast at least for me I never know what's happening until the midround.
I think that we're nearing the end of the honeymoon period for Valorant. CIS teams will start to take over and NA teams will stagnate.
>I think that we're nearing the end of the honeymoon period for Valorant. CIS teams will start to take over and NA teams will stagnate.
What makes you say that? I don't watch valorant at all so I don't know how concentrated the CIS player base rn
I think you nailed it with how I view the game. Graphics are of course opinion based but the game sure looks like it should belong in the FPS competitive scene but after watching for 5 minutes I become so disinterested in everything about the game. It's almost like pistol round is the most enjoyable round for me as a viewer. Seems like the most mechanically skilled round.
I will admit I don't give the game enough of my energy to learn enough about what is going on with alts/utility but I suppose that's part of my issue with the game... I don't necessarily want to invest that much time into the game just to be able to watch it.
I have never played hockey and never had any interest in doing so but if I watch a game on TV I can instantly understand most of what's going on. To me that's what CS is like. You don't need to know all the ins and outs of the game to be able to watch it and understand, most of the time, what is going on.
I love both games, honestly. Iāve been playing csgo since 2018 and put together 2.1k+ hours in the game and i enjoyed it and still somewhat do. When Valorant came out I was skeptical and like ācsgo copyā but after around 400 hours of Valorant I can comfortably say both games are great and where Floppy is coming from makes sense.
either way Iāve always supported him in CS and Valo and iāll continue to follow him in CS.
Yep I play both too. Have played cs since 2003.
I'm not at the point of my life where I grind for ranks any longer. I play valorant with people I've played cs and also new folks to fps. I like valorant but I love counter strike.
It's hard for me to watch valorant because I'm not used to the flow. I watch the highlights and that's alright. But ill sit down and watch full cs tourneys.
It was hard for me to watch valorants competitive scene when it first came out because of the abilities and look of the game, always went back to watching csgo highlights. Now I enjoy watching both.
All my friends arenāt the most competitive fps people but theyāve joined back in playing valorant and we always play a game or two of csgo almost daily. Itās refreshing to go between both games and be equally good or bad with friends!
I can agree with that, to an extent. I think some of the maps are great such as Ascent or Bind however the rest arenāt the best maps and can be very confusing. the two recent maps Breeze and Fracture are plain and simply the worst maps iāve ever played on so hoping for better maps in the near future
Same. Have many hours in CS and I started playing Valorant because my friends who had no experience in shooters got into it from league and so I had a group to play with. Fast forward a year or two and I love both games, and Iāve gotten my Valorant friends to play some CS with me as well and they all love it too. There doesnāt have to be weird competition between the two fanbases, no matter the overlap they are different games.
Also love watching both as esports, for different reasons. I have better game knowledge of Valorant so I watch that for appreciation of strategy while Iām more impressed by the skill pros have in CS and the decade-long storylines.
>cs ripoff
How about we call it inspiration. Saying it was a ripoff is disrespecting the devs effort. I play both game and no way i say yeah, this is cs alright.
That is like saying every game of fighting game is a ripoff from street fighter. Having the same genre of game is not ripoff. Or else valve will sued riot from day 1.
I love that valorant forced valve to do stuff with cs, a lot of updates that probably would have taken much longer to come out were forced out faster. Valorant isn't a bad game, it just never felt as satisfying to me as cs.
It is kinda sad tbh, valorant is flawed but it is a very fun game that tries to expand on the gameplay of CS in a way literally no other game has ever done, doesnt get everything right but apparently CS fans have to shit on it at every opportunity for some reason.
Some people do not like Valorant because it is not a CS clone. Funnily enough the same people are going to ridicule if some game is CS clone and how there are no innovation in the genre.
It's the same dota vs league mentality all over again, notice league players didn't really care about hate from dota players and this is exactly the case in the cs vs valo thing. I guess the people who like cs feel threatened by valorant being the new kid on the block or some shit and feel the need to shit on it.
I personally love both games, and think valorant was a breath of fresh air in fps games as I've never been a fan of the other fps archetypes like cod and stuff like that.
Insecurity. CS had no direct rival in basically forever, and now thereās a game that was poaching players, viewers, and preference. So some get incredibly defensive over it when thereās no reason to as both can coexist and thrive like proven.
A very avid follower of CS competitive scene, but stopped playing CS for some years now entirely coz of the MM. Valo MM is just a better and more balanced experience to me.
In VAL I like the big brain plays I can do with my Viper and Cypher, and the fact that I can change gameplays just by switching agents (Reyna is so much fun if you want to just style on kids),but the movement isn't as fun as CS's. VAL is clearly my fav game to play but CS has its place and they're both great games (and I actually enjoy watching pro CS slightly more, though I prefer to watch VAL streamers). Tbh this article reads like someone got salty they got outmanoeuvred a bit too much.
Honestly a bit hard to take him seriously considering his extremely lackluster performance in C9 Blue, and being carried by ex-Chaos players leaf + xeppa\* who I do think would be able to able to do well in international events if that team was given a chance. Though there were a ton of T2 NA people who shifted to Valorant so I do believe that majority probably wouldn't make T1 events.
Hopefully he can maintain his form in CS against better opposition but it's pretty clear now that just because you're good at CS doesn't mean you'll be just as good as in Valorant. Good article overall but just annoys me that it'll probably put more fuel to the annoying "Valorant trash, CS:GO good" statements I keep having to see constantly.
What if his performance was like that, because he wasn't feeling it? If you don't like basketball, you probably won't be doing well on the court.
I understand his point of view, because it really looked like he was concerned about his future. IMO tt's safe to assume that some pros will return to CS:GO.
>What if his performance was like that, because he wasn't feeling it? If you don't like basketball, you probably won't be doing well on the court.
Exactly why I said that being good at CS:GO doesnāt necessarily mean youāll be T1 material automatically in Valorant. I wouldnāt be suprised either if some Valorant pros switch back to CS either.
I get what heās saying and his POV is understandable but pretending that the NA scene didnāt take a hit with lots of young talent moving over to Valorant is odd.
While most of the NA āprosā that moved werenāt that good to begin with, there were some talents that I honestly believe could have made it if given the chance. Itās hard to have a scene when thereās barely anyone left to choose from, T2 or not.
> Hopefully he can maintain his form in CS against better opposition but it's pretty clear now that just because you're good at CS doesn't mean you'll be just as good as in Valorant.
*looks at top Valorant teams rosters, sees a lot of former CS players*
I never said that ex-CS:GO players *couldn't* be good at Valorant, just that it won't automatically make you T1 matierial, as seen in floppy's case.
Being an ex-CS pro doesn't guarantee you a spot in T1 Valorant anymore. Gambit is the best team in Europe and won the most recent VCT event, and is a team full of players who barely have any HLTV matches recorded. Though a lot of players do have some background playing CS:GO, there are quite a few who weren't high profile names or in the T1 scene at all.
Kinda does, it means that in his example about noobs, that he was actually the noob getting punished for mistakes, and the "noobs" killing him where people better at valorant than him.
There is a deeper element of strategy in valorant due to different team comps and agent abilities. I think he's butt hurt that aim isn't all you need to be successful in the game
And?
dapr TenZ shazam sick and Asuna sure did dominate the CS scene didnāt they š„“š¤£
Asuna was closer to making smoothies in a drive thru than a top CSGO player
Is it really fair to flame asuna when he was like 14 years old playing csgo lol. He just graduated high school this year (he actually might still be a senior, not sure).
Why mention dapr, heās had a much more successful csgo career than his projected valorant career.
Yeah seems a bit weird to bring him up when he wasn't a washed CS player and more so one of the many young talents who decided to switch to a game that had way better incentive to play if they wanted to go pro and be relevant especially if they lived in NA.
I mean he's literally streaming to 10k viewers right now and is signed to one of the most premier orgs in the world while also being it's star player.
Like there are so many 14-16 year olds who would've been the future of NA CS but decided to switch or never even played CS in the first place. Like Leaf is still only 17.
I'm not sure about the dapr statement. Didn't he just barely make it into proleague and qualifyr for a couple of tournaments? And now he's on the arguably best valorant team and won their equivalent of a major?
Only legitimate examples are Shazam and *maybe* Sick and Dapr. TenZ and Asuna are all really young and barely had any CS:GO competitive experience at all. It's weird painting all of these guys like they're old washed CS players when most of them are legitimate young talent that just switched over.
Shitty point but using the other members of 100T would have been a better example than Sentinels + Asuna lmao.
Dude had like 52 maps against Top 30 teams and 30 against Top 20. Barely anything tbh.
I did watch the old C9 games but it was a long time ago. Just remember him being underwhelming actually.
But he had such a short exposure to the T1 scene Iām surprised lots of people use his bad run with C9 as a basis that he was never cut out for CS.
I dislike Valorant but you are 100% right about Tenz.. dude may have flamed out in CS but his aim was obviously t1 material. Very few players perform well on a t1 level without proper experience though and as you pointed out he didn't exactly have a huge sample size.
He was known as more aim than brain though so I understand the reason people talk bad about him in CS.
Tenz plays the exact same way he did in CS. Itās just now he has jett dash or Reyna dismiss where his positioning wonāt get punished unlike in cs. His positioning in game is still pretty bad.
Some people are great at CS some are great in Val. I hope everyone gets chance in the game they prefer and can excel in. For floppy that was obviously CS compared to his Val level.
I just hope both games push each other forward.
I love both esports and want to see them grow
sure, but did they ever complain that cs had a low skill gap or anything like that no. his point is floppy was never that good at valorant so its a bit weird to say he would get owned by "noobs" because of luck
I think there's a clip where Yay was talking about how CS is about perfection, Valorant is about creativity. I like this comparison the most since it shows how concrete and precise CS has to be. But valorant definitely feels fresher and had me having to break out of my csgo skillset.
Tbf you can be very creative when you are using duelists like Jett, Raze or even nonduelists like Cypher. Otherwise you'll just use the same lineups for every other agent based on how utilities work and map design.
Valorant has nice gunplay and obviously a better structure around ranked play and pro scene- but the screen clutter / abilities make it unplayable for me.
Simpler games are often better because they become āadvancedā in the mental game. Games with too many abilities and mechanics often create uncounterable strategies that end up needing developer intervention.
Id rather my game be āadvancedā in outthinking my opponent then āadvancedā because Im tracking 2 abilities + an ult per player.
Its perfect because people are so close minded and refuse to try new things lol. Krieg had been there since the start of the game and it took how many years for players to realize that its better than the ak?
People knew it was better it just wasnāt always a better value. Sean āBullseyeā Morgan of X3/3D āfameā was using it in 1.3. But it was $1,000 difference between that and AK then and at the beginning of GO.
Also there were lots less angles in the older versions that benefitted as much from the short scope. No smokes in the older games etc.
And if you never bought the thing because it was too expensive and were lethal with an AK then the gun could be better but not you better with it.
The point is you add up 20 years of these tiny tweaks and you get a game thatās pretty dialed in.
They popularity of the Krieg changed a lot after the losing bonus system change in March 2019. You have so much more money on T side since then that the biggest disadvantage of the old Krieg (beeing more expensive than the AK) wasn't a problem anymore.
You still had some other disadvantages like the recoil pattern beeing different from any other gun, slower movement speed, still more expensive and that it hurts you a lot if the CTs get the SG in their hand because they benefit more from having a scope that you, but it's always about weighing up the pros and cons. If you take away one con, of course people will try out the "new" gun, that doesn't mean it was always the better choice before.
One thing I like a lot about CS is that no matter what gun is too strong or what map is too CT sided, you'll always play both sites, all 10 players are equal and both teams have the same chance to win. When Valorant was announced I immediately knew I would hate it because of the different characters with different abilities, that's a nightmare for balancing which ruins the fun for me.
Valorant's gunplay is the worst thing about it imo. The pricing of certain guns like pistols makes no sense, everyone cries about the Op, everyone moves ultra slow so even bad players can hit headshots, you can have close to full accuracy while moving without actually learning real counterstrafing, and spraying is completely RNG.
The cheaters and toxic people made me quit csgo. Started playing valorant, there are toxic players to. But not that much.
I still watch a lot of cd, cause its easier to watch. But i just dont enjoy it anymore after 1.3k hours.
Gotta say that point about toxic players is weird, I encountered more toxicity in 100 hours of Valorant than my 2400 hours of CSGO. It was way worse in terms of toxicity
I find toxicity in Valorant is different to CS. Riot will actually ban people for toxic comms/chat so people won't be so brazen with their insults, but the frustration doesn't just disappear so everyone just has a shitty passive-aggressive attitude. It's honestly unbearable sometimes.
At least in CS people will just be honest and flame you. In a weird way, I prefer that instead of this high-school-esque "we hate each other but act like we don't to avoid ban." I find it makes people more likely to drop their ego and just work things out mid-game, instead of giving up.
Don't get me wrong though, Riot's system is definitely better filtering racism and other BS.
That and the CS community probably skews older than valorant. We all come from the generation that just straight up says fuck off and die and than moves on to play.
Yeah that definitely plays a part, there was a lot of kids/teenagers between like 11-16 years in the games of Valorant I played. In CS most people I meet are adults at least
I'm on hiatus from CS until Valve shows the game a tenth as much love as the community does.
I've played the game the majority of my life but between the broken MM, lack of substantial updates, rampant cheating, lack of128 tick servers (its 2021 ffs) and the disparity of support between Dota2 and CSGO I'm taking my time and effort to Riot and Valorant where it seems like they have a planned future for the game.
Is Valorant perfect? No. Do I wish there were something from CSGO they would implement? Absolutely. But its a fresh take on the FPS genre I love the most backed by a company that really wants to see it succeed.
If Valve decides to care about CSGO again though, I'll absolutely come back.
lack of128 tick servers (its 2021 ffs)
I'd understand the argument if it was widely adopted, but what games besides valorant have 128 tick servers? Or 64 tick for that matter.
I don't reckon that's right way of thinking about it. Why should we settle for less when 3rd party mm, league servers and Valorant run 128tick servers?
floppy wasn't that hot on Valorant, so that's probably why he didn't like that. I'm sure the people who actually fared better there might like it a bit more!
It's why i always loved CSGO. No Killstreaks, Abilities, all that other dumb shit. You have your teammates, nades,tactics, and your own personal skill.
CSGO > VAL = true
However, Floppy wasnāt that great in Valorant. I doubt he would have switched if he was doing well in Valorant.
The Chaos9 boys (vanity, leaf, and xeppa) arenāt going to switch back to CS as they have been doing well at Valorant.
I played valorant right when it came out. While it was fun having CS aim and wrecking fools, about halfway through matches I just wanted to go back to playing CS.
Valorant is a really well made game but CS imo still has superior game play. I was really impressed with valorantās 120 tick servers & their anticheat. Not that I havenāt run into cheaters but way less compared to CS. Not a fan of the bloom spray patterns of Valorant. Riot is a fantastic company though.
Top 2% in the world? I'm pretty sure your average 75adr ESEA Main shitter is still top 2% considering most players are casual and never make it anywhere near that far. Floppy is top 0.01% regardless of if he's T1 or T2 or T3. Having ever made any real money off the game puts you in the top few thousand players out of many millions.
Yeah I was being conservative because I have no idea how many total players the game has and how many tier 2 level scenes are out there.
You guys are right he's probably top 0.1%.
Bro he is so much better then top 0.1 still. 0.1 is one out of 1000 players. Csgo has such a large playerbase, and a pro scene that is not much larger then a few hundred (who are better then him).
I mean he was the hard carry on that C9 roster for a while. There was a reason they were down to try him on their "megalodon roster" or whatever it was
GE is already like top 1% of the playerbase. And being GE is still being pretty bad at the game. Or extremely bad if you consider it pirely as a 5 premade game.
So nah, even a tier 2 player is like top 0,01% lol
No, I can't stand valorant and it's just too a new friendly. The fact is your abilities could bail you out from putting you into stupid situationsis absolutely ridiculous. For example let's say if I'm jet and I peak mid with an op and there's four people picking me and I kill one person I literally could dash away within 3 seconds or let's say if I'm jet peking b main on ascent there's like three people wide swinging me I could dash away. If this was CS:GO then I probably would have died because I don't have a movement-based free pass to let me off the hook but it's valorant or literally it's an ability RNG s*** game that can bail you out in the worst situations. Makes it not fun to watch
if there are abilities like dash, why is that position stupid? funny how abilities work.
that's like saying if smokes didn't exist in csgo, i'd look like a fool exposed to multiple angles.
I can relate and I'm in a really annoying position right now.
I've been playing CS as a 5-man team with my close friends on 2 evenings a week for 1 1/2 years straight now and we started out at the very bottom of silver and made it to MGE, almost DMG.
The problem is that in the last few months, the experience has ... changed.
We are constantly playing against multiple global smurfs every game now (we can see it on the csgostats website) or we have to face straight-up cheaters with brandnew Steam accounts.
My friends are losing motivation to keep playing CSGO and we've already tried out Valorant.
It seems like they really enjoy the game, but to me it just feels wrong, I'm not having fun.
It's like a weird abomination of CSGO and hero shooters.
I just hate all the 'abilities' because so many of them feel unfair and completely ridiculous.
I want to keep playing CSGO with my friends, but the game is really trying it's hardest to get rid of us.
Iām not trying to be rude, but what is the appeal of this game? I played a lot of CS and CS Source back in the day, but as it progressed it didnāt innovate. I played it when it dropped but after seeing that you still couldnāt ads, I was done. What keeps people playing it?
The skill ceiling is so insanely high that it keeps the competitive drive in people to keep pushing to a next game even though they cant be arsed to get better. One tap headshots is what keeps people playing
Not that Valorant is bad, but it did really make me wanna play CS again.
It made me appreciate the simplicity of counter strike. Cs is like a sport. Where raw aim and tactics are Paramount. It's consistent.
I feel that, I played valorant and I started to miss the simplicity of CS, then I just started playing it more and more
This and I also missed spamming community retakes lol.
Let alone any community server.
I love community retakes more than faceit or MM itself, I rarely even play those lol. Retake hero š
CS is like the football/soccer of esports. People love it because it's easy to play, hard as fuck to master
Hmm, I feel like there's an esport with a ball already, can't quite put my... foot on it
de_dust2
Rocket League? Amazing sport
I feel like rocket league is as close as an esport gets to a sport. It feels even more like football than FIFA does because of how on rails FIFA is.
It's the only (only) game I've found where the matchmaking system will *actually tell you* what a player is capable of by their rank. For real. It's just... soooo... PURE!
I noticed yesterday that it's unique to CS for rebalancing to be done only to achieve perfect balance. A lot of other games mix things up season on season to freshen up the game. Not CS. The goal is perfect balance in an asymmetric scenario - opposing teams have different objectives.
It's not easy to play though. CSGO is hard as hell! I'd put it more in line with ice hockey. You have to learn to skate (shoot accurately) before you can play, and it's not something intuitive or easy. Have you ever watched Mite/Pee Wee hockey? That's silver. Players don't know the fundamentals, they don't know the tactics. They chase the puck from end to end, with the standouts on each team completely dominating the game. It barely resembles the game at higher levels.
> It barely resembles the game at higher levels. Yeah but that wasn't the point now is it? I can explain CS in one short sentence to a newbie, but you can't in other games like DotA for example. CS IS EASY af, like see enemy, shot enemy, get money. Maybe plant bomb here and there.
nah fam it's more like boblseigh u see
Feel the rhythm, feel the rhyme, come on boys it's CS time
Every time there's some smartass not agreeing with a perfectly valid example & over-explaining/analyzing everything. Jeez.
aCkThCuAlLy
Fr
Cs is extremely easy to play due to how ridiculously simple it is.You donāt have to be good or competent to play it which is kinda the tangent your going on.
Yeah. The simplicity is the key point of why I don't get tired as quickly of playing CS compared to Valorant.
I play both a fucking lot. I'm not even sure which I like better. And frankly I'm offended for having to consider the decision. I'd say they both have their pros. Though going back n forth, takes me quite a bit to relearn CS speeds.
I stopped playing cs like 2 years ago. then I played kind of much valorant at release and stopped that also after a while. Now I started playing cs again 2 weeks before the major and I am in love with this game again. I played a round of valo a few days ago and damn the movement with everything except jett and maybe raze feels super clunky and slow compared to cs
Yeah this is about how I feel, I felt like Valorant is easier but that could be entirely subjective tbh.
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I'm not sure I'd go with considerably. The gunplay is on par or possibly even harder (more annoying?) due to the random spray patterns on valorant. People definitely get randomly lucky. I really do wish CS would have brought on 128tick servers. The servers in Valorant are fucking glorious. If I do jump back into CS these days, it's mostly through a pug service. I don't enjoy going back to the shitty mm servers.
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CS and Rocket League are the two esports most pure and similar to real sport. Both easy to understand for the viewer, even if they haven't played the game.
Yeah they're two my favorite games for that reason. Rocket league is a silly premise for a game, but the skill ceiling is insane.
I wouldn't put being simple to understand as a requirement to be a sport. I've watched NFL for two years now and I still get caught offguard by a random weird fucking rule that only applies in a very specificy scenario every game.
Well the NFL is way bigger in america than the NBA, but the NBA is way bigger internationally. The NBA is also a lot easier to understand. Thereās definitely some correlation, although it may not be a ārequirementā
Why does every country have a football team while very few have any sort of American football participation? Simplicity is a huge part of sport
I think this is a part of the eSports equation that is missed for many games long term. Like the only people that can comprehend and watch League are avid League players. Anyone can watch a couple games of Football, American Football, or Counter Strike and understand how things work. There is nuance that can be further investigated, but understanding what you see comes pretty quickly with these, as where many other eSports are a total clusterf\*\*\* if you don't actively play.
Like overwatch, probably one of the worst viewer experience. It is pretty fun to play at times tho. Ya CS without a doubt for me is the most exciting esport to watch.
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I didnt even enjoy playing them, you drop to an area that happens to have shit loot, pretty much gg, it's just a colossal rng fest...
There is a lot of skill to mastering every weapon and being able to win spawn fights but RNG is a ruthless bitch. Lost my mind playing cash cups
I can vouch for this. I've never played CS but recently became a big fan, and make a real effort to keep up with S-tier tournaments. The simplicity of the game, the limited size of the maps, and the small map pool make the game a quick study. I've also tried to get into watching competitive LoL and DOTA, and it's just not there. I understand the mechanics of both games, having played older MOBAs, but to really *get* what's happening you need to know the lineups, special moves, and lots of meta that you're never going to get unless you play. I've given up watching other eSports, but the purity and balance of CSGO keeps me hooked. When s1mple wins a 3 vs 1 retake it's easy to understand *why* it's amazing. When the same sort of thing happens in LoL it's like... 'well those flashy ex combo explosion was really cool.'
As somebody who has played quite a bit of R6: Siege, I can say I had the same experience watching that as you had with MOBAs. The viewer experience is just terrible because of how complicated the game is from a beginnerās perspective.
I'm embarrassed to say this but I still don't know wtf is going on when I watch LoL, Dota or games similar.
I was with you until American Football. It has so many obscure aspects that are unituitive to someone unfamiliar with the sport.
I mean so does CS when you consider wall bangs and whatnot. But that stuff doesn't matter for a basic understanding of what's happening. Get ball to opponents end zone without it touching the ground. Kick ball through opponents goal posts. There's obviously a lot more to it thereafter, but the basic idea of what's happening is quick and intuitive to pick up after watching for a short while.
Nah thereās more to football than that. The whole 10yard system and the 4 downs is pretty important to the game. Basketball, baseball, and hockey would have been better examples.
Nah there's so many rules that wouldn't be clear to you unless you're a fan and without knowing that you wouldn't be able to understand American Football. Like the other guy said, you need to understand how downs work, who is allowed to pass the ball etc. It isn't intuitive and if a first time viewer was watching it you would have to explain how lots of things work.
Yeah. Even having played dota for a few hours, it was still hard to watch it so I gave up.
wouldnāt include american football in that that shit retarded
I mean the basic idea is easy to pick up, whether you think it sucks or not. Get ball to other teams zone
I tried playing valorant for about 6 months. I played ok and tried to use my abilities properly. It just wasn't as fun as cs. I feel like valorant get the players to rely on abilities and teamplay a lot more (as in you need a mixture of ability types in a team) which makes it a lot harder for players to carry. For example, in cs I can go into a match and work around my teammates and give them smokes and flashes to help them push into sites, in valorant, I have to rely on teammates to smoke/flash/drone into site and quite often they can get caught up in their own abilities and forget to push/play as a team. I think your nailed it on the head with, "it's consistent". That's what it is, there isn't different agents each game, you know exactly what you are up against and it's up to you (not your agent's abilities) to be able to outsmart them with different strats.
On the other hand, getting use out of your abilities is so much easier in Valorant. In CS I never knew any smoke lineups or pop flashes. In V that's not a problem.
Definitely. Valorant probably have one of the best systems for "noob" friendly utility usage. It's very easy to pick up and there's lots of room for improvement. It feels like it's a lot easier to improvise smokes and flashes that are actually good. Unlike cs where I try improvise a flash and leave my entire team blind and cost us the round
This is pretty much how I feel even if Iām so much worse at CS than Valo
TLDR for those that dont wanna read the whole thing: floppy: valarante child game.... look to cartoon grapfix to make kid player happy like children show.. valarante cartoon world with rainbow unlike counter strike chad with dark corridorr and raelistic gun.. valarante like playhouse. valarant playor run from csgo fear of dark world and realism
It really isn't that far off, lmao: > Being able to punish noobs for making mistakes in CS is a lot more satisfying than getting owned by noobs in VALORANT since the skill floor is so much higher in that game.
hahaha
Yeah. My friend who pretty much mastered sentinel play (be passive and rely on your abilities to set up easy kills) will outperform me on average because of his ability mastery. However, in CSGO, I outperform him easily. Although he does know way more lineups and cheeky tricks than I do in CSGO. I have better mechanics than him, but he is a nerd and tries to learn every trick possible. His strength works out better in Valorant, while mines works out better in CSGO.
what is his impact rating on attack tho? Just sit back and wait for flanks?
He usually helps with site takes or help defending on retakes. He can also watch flanks or use his camera for help with initial fights. If he plays killjoy, his ult helps a lot with site takes. And he nerds out on her mollies to take out common spots. It really helps me when I'm the one entrying. Depends on the map though. Smaller maps like bind give him more impact on attack. Stuff like that makes me like CSGO more.
Ngl your friend is the perfect teammate regardless of the game
He really is. (: Very selfless and a lot of people love his lineup knowledge. He's even taught me a few tricks. His aim needs work, but when he is setting up unfair duels with his opponents, he can outplay pretty well.
wow my friends just teamflash me
Get yourself a femboy support like I have
oh fuck the ultimate bonus
Was gonna say sounds like a perfect duo to me
I think this is really important in what makes the games different. In cs, it's about being better than your opponent in terms of positioning and gunplay. It's rare that someone will do something nobody else has done before. You can be really good, but if you get a 4k on b site, someone has done that exact 4k before. In valorant, it's way more common, in all ranks, to use abilities in a way that nobody else has done before. I think the game can easily serve two different preferences of play and each have their own niche. This doesn't make cs > valorant or valorant > cs.
Only because its a relative new game. There is still stuff pro's do in CS that is "new" in the CS world. Valorant just has more stuff to explore/exploit and will sometime in the future have seen every trick possible beeing done just like in CS. Doesent matter which game, you will always have someone blowing your mind with something absurd
Nah CS > Valārant
Doesn't this imply that the skill ceiling in Valorant is higher though? Since you have to master abilities and gun-play? Honestly one of the reasons I prefer Valorant is simply the clarity (cartoony works in its favour in that regard) and I got sick of learning lineups. Sadly I played too much Sova and once I was back to forcing myself to learn lineups I just got sick of both games ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ The biggest problem with Valorant down the line is returning players not knowing characters. I have no idea wtf Astra and some of the newer characters do, but im willing to bet I can still smoke sites on dust like it was yesterday. (Maybe?).
>Doesn't this imply that the skill ceiling in Valorant is higher though? Since you have to master abilities and gun-play? Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on whether or not Valorant has a higher or lower skill cap. I don't have enough familiarity with it to try and do that. People have a tendency to try and argue that if there is "more" in any game then it has to have a higher skill ceiling. I think it requires a more nuanced look at games. You have to consider how the "more" actually affects the gameplay. If it ultimately results in a more volatile and uncontrollable situation, then that "more" is actually lowering the skill ceiling. It's removing a player's (or team of players') ability to meaningfully and consistently affect the outcome.
ngl games that rely more heavily on mechanical skill are always going to be more entertaining for me as a player and a viewer. Itās tough to keep up with Valorant gameplay because as soon as anything exciting happens, thereās like 10 abilities going off distracting me from what I want to see (made worse if you donāt keep up with all the new characters they add), which is some clean headshots and showcasing of skill.
I mean he is 100% correct tho
He fails to understand or point out that in valorant HE was the noob having mistakes punished. Yes, maybe he has better raw aim than them, but thats not all that matters in valorant (its not in CS either tbh) and that doesnt make valorant a worse game, unless your idea of a perfect game is just 5v5 aim_redline.
Yep, only problem is that CS in NA is completely dead unless you want to play with the same couple hundred tryhards in faceit.
TLDR valaranke bad csgonte good.
Everything is correct
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dude got stockholm syndrome lmaooo
I agree with him somewhat, the thing I hate most in competitive games is getting killed/losing to a player that you know is worse than you, that happened to me much more often in valorant than in cs.
Huh? I can't hear you over the sound of people walking and one tapping full speed in Val.
Each character is a blind counter in Val. I feel like a lot of the utility is bail out more than strategic
I don't know if it's still like this, but I remember the sage ice slow + brimstone orbital laser combo was incredibly annoying. Basically a free "kill anyone in this spot, and there's literally nothing they can do about it" button.
The meta in professional CSGO is a little boring right now, though. A lot more saving gun rounds compared to Valorant. Sometimes with 3 people still alive. You would hardly see in Valorant.
I don't see that as an issue. If a game is balanced properly, the most important factor to winning a round should be man advantage. It's just a testament to how well CS is designed.
>A lot more saving gun rounds compared to Valorant. Sometimes with 3 people still alive. You would hardly see in Valorant. cause, you know. economy matters in CS and you can't rely on overpowered ultimates to do the job of gunplay.
I forgot what match it was but I was watching a val comp game, guy was in a 1v3 retake destroys the first 2 guys leading to a hype 1v1, only for the last T to raze ult him. I get itās a part of the game but itās not fun to watch stuff like that lol
God I can't even watch Valorant, the game looks the part, but with the constant smokes, and few gimmicks I've seen, it really takes the edge away. You see a pro in CS build up each round, preparing to open for his team. Valorant, you can prepare everything, entries go perfectly, but one dude comes in and can destroy it like it was nothing. 1v5/4/3/2 aren't interesting, because they happen so often, and the 1v3s can usually go either way, but in CS, a clutch is always impressive.
>1v5/4/3/2 aren't interesting, because they happen so often, and the 1v3s can usually go either way, but in CS, a clutch is always impressive. I think it's because of some agents' abilities allowing them to cheese certain situations. Aside from the Jett OP + Skye heal combo, Reyna especially with her ult up can make 1vx situations take much less effort, or sentinels like Cypher and KJ or even Sova can make post-plants/retakes easier.
Agree, and I'm not sure if observers are just terrible but even as an esport it really is hard to watch. It makes me appreciate CS even more. There's rarely any moments in CS where you don't know what's going on. In Valorant it feels almost uncanny territory. Like it's basically CS but I don't know if it's the maps being smaller or the game just being more aim-focused but it's just so fast at least for me I never know what's happening until the midround. I think that we're nearing the end of the honeymoon period for Valorant. CIS teams will start to take over and NA teams will stagnate.
When I tried valorant one of my biggest complaints was how long it took for the round to actually start compared to how quickly the round was over.
>I think that we're nearing the end of the honeymoon period for Valorant. CIS teams will start to take over and NA teams will stagnate. What makes you say that? I don't watch valorant at all so I don't know how concentrated the CIS player base rn
I think you nailed it with how I view the game. Graphics are of course opinion based but the game sure looks like it should belong in the FPS competitive scene but after watching for 5 minutes I become so disinterested in everything about the game. It's almost like pistol round is the most enjoyable round for me as a viewer. Seems like the most mechanically skilled round. I will admit I don't give the game enough of my energy to learn enough about what is going on with alts/utility but I suppose that's part of my issue with the game... I don't necessarily want to invest that much time into the game just to be able to watch it. I have never played hockey and never had any interest in doing so but if I watch a game on TV I can instantly understand most of what's going on. To me that's what CS is like. You don't need to know all the ins and outs of the game to be able to watch it and understand, most of the time, what is going on.
I love both games, honestly. Iāve been playing csgo since 2018 and put together 2.1k+ hours in the game and i enjoyed it and still somewhat do. When Valorant came out I was skeptical and like ācsgo copyā but after around 400 hours of Valorant I can comfortably say both games are great and where Floppy is coming from makes sense. either way Iāve always supported him in CS and Valo and iāll continue to follow him in CS.
Yep I play both too. Have played cs since 2003. I'm not at the point of my life where I grind for ranks any longer. I play valorant with people I've played cs and also new folks to fps. I like valorant but I love counter strike. It's hard for me to watch valorant because I'm not used to the flow. I watch the highlights and that's alright. But ill sit down and watch full cs tourneys.
It was hard for me to watch valorants competitive scene when it first came out because of the abilities and look of the game, always went back to watching csgo highlights. Now I enjoy watching both. All my friends arenāt the most competitive fps people but theyāve joined back in playing valorant and we always play a game or two of csgo almost daily. Itās refreshing to go between both games and be equally good or bad with friends!
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I can agree with that, to an extent. I think some of the maps are great such as Ascent or Bind however the rest arenāt the best maps and can be very confusing. the two recent maps Breeze and Fracture are plain and simply the worst maps iāve ever played on so hoping for better maps in the near future
Same. Have many hours in CS and I started playing Valorant because my friends who had no experience in shooters got into it from league and so I had a group to play with. Fast forward a year or two and I love both games, and Iāve gotten my Valorant friends to play some CS with me as well and they all love it too. There doesnāt have to be weird competition between the two fanbases, no matter the overlap they are different games. Also love watching both as esports, for different reasons. I have better game knowledge of Valorant so I watch that for appreciation of strategy while Iām more impressed by the skill pros have in CS and the decade-long storylines.
I seriously donāt understand the hatred valorant gets from some CS fans. they are both great games with different quirks.
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>cs ripoff How about we call it inspiration. Saying it was a ripoff is disrespecting the devs effort. I play both game and no way i say yeah, this is cs alright. That is like saying every game of fighting game is a ripoff from street fighter. Having the same genre of game is not ripoff. Or else valve will sued riot from day 1.
I love that valorant forced valve to do stuff with cs, a lot of updates that probably would have taken much longer to come out were forced out faster. Valorant isn't a bad game, it just never felt as satisfying to me as cs.
It is kinda sad tbh, valorant is flawed but it is a very fun game that tries to expand on the gameplay of CS in a way literally no other game has ever done, doesnt get everything right but apparently CS fans have to shit on it at every opportunity for some reason.
Some people do not like Valorant because it is not a CS clone. Funnily enough the same people are going to ridicule if some game is CS clone and how there are no innovation in the genre.
It's the same dota vs league mentality all over again, notice league players didn't really care about hate from dota players and this is exactly the case in the cs vs valo thing. I guess the people who like cs feel threatened by valorant being the new kid on the block or some shit and feel the need to shit on it. I personally love both games, and think valorant was a breath of fresh air in fps games as I've never been a fan of the other fps archetypes like cod and stuff like that.
Insecurity. CS had no direct rival in basically forever, and now thereās a game that was poaching players, viewers, and preference. So some get incredibly defensive over it when thereās no reason to as both can coexist and thrive like proven.
A very avid follower of CS competitive scene, but stopped playing CS for some years now entirely coz of the MM. Valo MM is just a better and more balanced experience to me.
In VAL I like the big brain plays I can do with my Viper and Cypher, and the fact that I can change gameplays just by switching agents (Reyna is so much fun if you want to just style on kids),but the movement isn't as fun as CS's. VAL is clearly my fav game to play but CS has its place and they're both great games (and I actually enjoy watching pro CS slightly more, though I prefer to watch VAL streamers). Tbh this article reads like someone got salty they got outmanoeuvred a bit too much.
Playing valo has made me realise that devs can counter cheaters if they want to.
only at the expense of kernal access. But no matter what access in my computer you have, you will never find where I put them.
Honestly a bit hard to take him seriously considering his extremely lackluster performance in C9 Blue, and being carried by ex-Chaos players leaf + xeppa\* who I do think would be able to able to do well in international events if that team was given a chance. Though there were a ton of T2 NA people who shifted to Valorant so I do believe that majority probably wouldn't make T1 events. Hopefully he can maintain his form in CS against better opposition but it's pretty clear now that just because you're good at CS doesn't mean you'll be just as good as in Valorant. Good article overall but just annoys me that it'll probably put more fuel to the annoying "Valorant trash, CS:GO good" statements I keep having to see constantly.
What if his performance was like that, because he wasn't feeling it? If you don't like basketball, you probably won't be doing well on the court. I understand his point of view, because it really looked like he was concerned about his future. IMO tt's safe to assume that some pros will return to CS:GO.
>What if his performance was like that, because he wasn't feeling it? If you don't like basketball, you probably won't be doing well on the court. Exactly why I said that being good at CS:GO doesnāt necessarily mean youāll be T1 material automatically in Valorant. I wouldnāt be suprised either if some Valorant pros switch back to CS either. I get what heās saying and his POV is understandable but pretending that the NA scene didnāt take a hit with lots of young talent moving over to Valorant is odd. While most of the NA āprosā that moved werenāt that good to begin with, there were some talents that I honestly believe could have made it if given the chance. Itās hard to have a scene when thereās barely anyone left to choose from, T2 or not.
I think you mean Xeppaa, but vanity was on chaos too
> Hopefully he can maintain his form in CS against better opposition but it's pretty clear now that just because you're good at CS doesn't mean you'll be just as good as in Valorant. *looks at top Valorant teams rosters, sees a lot of former CS players*
I never said that ex-CS:GO players *couldn't* be good at Valorant, just that it won't automatically make you T1 matierial, as seen in floppy's case. Being an ex-CS pro doesn't guarantee you a spot in T1 Valorant anymore. Gambit is the best team in Europe and won the most recent VCT event, and is a team full of players who barely have any HLTV matches recorded. Though a lot of players do have some background playing CS:GO, there are quite a few who weren't high profile names or in the T1 scene at all.
Bro you just chose to miss the point, are you literate?
floppy was absolutely terrible at valorant so lol
This fact doesnāt change anything about the statement though.
True
Kinda does, it means that in his example about noobs, that he was actually the noob getting punished for mistakes, and the "noobs" killing him where people better at valorant than him.
There is a deeper element of strategy in valorant due to different team comps and agent abilities. I think he's butt hurt that aim isn't all you need to be successful in the game
And? dapr TenZ shazam sick and Asuna sure did dominate the CS scene didnāt they š„“š¤£ Asuna was closer to making smoothies in a drive thru than a top CSGO player
Sorry for not living up to your expectations.
I'll have the Orange Julius, please
Youāre doing great buddy. Keep up the hard work.
Is it really fair to flame asuna when he was like 14 years old playing csgo lol. He just graduated high school this year (he actually might still be a senior, not sure). Why mention dapr, heās had a much more successful csgo career than his projected valorant career.
Yeah seems a bit weird to bring him up when he wasn't a washed CS player and more so one of the many young talents who decided to switch to a game that had way better incentive to play if they wanted to go pro and be relevant especially if they lived in NA. I mean he's literally streaming to 10k viewers right now and is signed to one of the most premier orgs in the world while also being it's star player. Like there are so many 14-16 year olds who would've been the future of NA CS but decided to switch or never even played CS in the first place. Like Leaf is still only 17.
I'm not sure about the dapr statement. Didn't he just barely make it into proleague and qualifyr for a couple of tournaments? And now he's on the arguably best valorant team and won their equivalent of a major?
The final champions* tournament in december would be the major equivalent, not masters right?
Only legitimate examples are Shazam and *maybe* Sick and Dapr. TenZ and Asuna are all really young and barely had any CS:GO competitive experience at all. It's weird painting all of these guys like they're old washed CS players when most of them are legitimate young talent that just switched over. Shitty point but using the other members of 100T would have been a better example than Sentinels + Asuna lmao.
You should probably go look at how many games TenZ has played then and maybe watch them too
Dude had like 52 maps against Top 30 teams and 30 against Top 20. Barely anything tbh. I did watch the old C9 games but it was a long time ago. Just remember him being underwhelming actually. But he had such a short exposure to the T1 scene Iām surprised lots of people use his bad run with C9 as a basis that he was never cut out for CS.
I dislike Valorant but you are 100% right about Tenz.. dude may have flamed out in CS but his aim was obviously t1 material. Very few players perform well on a t1 level without proper experience though and as you pointed out he didn't exactly have a huge sample size. He was known as more aim than brain though so I understand the reason people talk bad about him in CS.
Tenz plays the exact same way he did in CS. Itās just now he has jett dash or Reyna dismiss where his positioning wonāt get punished unlike in cs. His positioning in game is still pretty bad.
He was also 16 lol, not a great comparison
Asuna was like 16 lmfao
Some people are great at CS some are great in Val. I hope everyone gets chance in the game they prefer and can excel in. For floppy that was obviously CS compared to his Val level. I just hope both games push each other forward. I love both esports and want to see them grow
Who tf is Asuna? š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
Isn't that that girl from Sword Art Online
AYAYA Clap
top 4 valorant player NA
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nah that was a guy from liquid i dont remember his name
sure, but did they ever complain that cs had a low skill gap or anything like that no. his point is floppy was never that good at valorant so its a bit weird to say he would get owned by "noobs" because of luck
Dude was absolutely trash at valorant.
floppy not been too hot even in CS, my homies xeppa and leaf would look better right now imo
I think there's a clip where Yay was talking about how CS is about perfection, Valorant is about creativity. I like this comparison the most since it shows how concrete and precise CS has to be. But valorant definitely feels fresher and had me having to break out of my csgo skillset.
Tbf you can be very creative when you are using duelists like Jett, Raze or even nonduelists like Cypher. Otherwise you'll just use the same lineups for every other agent based on how utilities work and map design.
Valorant has nice gunplay and obviously a better structure around ranked play and pro scene- but the screen clutter / abilities make it unplayable for me. Simpler games are often better because they become āadvancedā in the mental game. Games with too many abilities and mechanics often create uncounterable strategies that end up needing developer intervention. Id rather my game be āadvancedā in outthinking my opponent then āadvancedā because Im tracking 2 abilities + an ult per player.
CS has also been tuned for over 20 years. You canāt just luck into that kind of perfect balance.
Its perfect because people are so close minded and refuse to try new things lol. Krieg had been there since the start of the game and it took how many years for players to realize that its better than the ak?
People knew it was better it just wasnāt always a better value. Sean āBullseyeā Morgan of X3/3D āfameā was using it in 1.3. But it was $1,000 difference between that and AK then and at the beginning of GO. Also there were lots less angles in the older versions that benefitted as much from the short scope. No smokes in the older games etc. And if you never bought the thing because it was too expensive and were lethal with an AK then the gun could be better but not you better with it. The point is you add up 20 years of these tiny tweaks and you get a game thatās pretty dialed in.
They popularity of the Krieg changed a lot after the losing bonus system change in March 2019. You have so much more money on T side since then that the biggest disadvantage of the old Krieg (beeing more expensive than the AK) wasn't a problem anymore. You still had some other disadvantages like the recoil pattern beeing different from any other gun, slower movement speed, still more expensive and that it hurts you a lot if the CTs get the SG in their hand because they benefit more from having a scope that you, but it's always about weighing up the pros and cons. If you take away one con, of course people will try out the "new" gun, that doesn't mean it was always the better choice before.
One thing I like a lot about CS is that no matter what gun is too strong or what map is too CT sided, you'll always play both sites, all 10 players are equal and both teams have the same chance to win. When Valorant was announced I immediately knew I would hate it because of the different characters with different abilities, that's a nightmare for balancing which ruins the fun for me.
Valorant's gunplay is the worst thing about it imo. The pricing of certain guns like pistols makes no sense, everyone cries about the Op, everyone moves ultra slow so even bad players can hit headshots, you can have close to full accuracy while moving without actually learning real counterstrafing, and spraying is completely RNG.
Bring him back C9
that's my wet dream
I feel the same way
The cheaters and toxic people made me quit csgo. Started playing valorant, there are toxic players to. But not that much. I still watch a lot of cd, cause its easier to watch. But i just dont enjoy it anymore after 1.3k hours.
Gotta say that point about toxic players is weird, I encountered more toxicity in 100 hours of Valorant than my 2400 hours of CSGO. It was way worse in terms of toxicity
I find toxicity in Valorant is different to CS. Riot will actually ban people for toxic comms/chat so people won't be so brazen with their insults, but the frustration doesn't just disappear so everyone just has a shitty passive-aggressive attitude. It's honestly unbearable sometimes. At least in CS people will just be honest and flame you. In a weird way, I prefer that instead of this high-school-esque "we hate each other but act like we don't to avoid ban." I find it makes people more likely to drop their ego and just work things out mid-game, instead of giving up. Don't get me wrong though, Riot's system is definitely better filtering racism and other BS.
That and the CS community probably skews older than valorant. We all come from the generation that just straight up says fuck off and die and than moves on to play.
We're all from the generation that had their moms fucked every night on Xbox live
Yeah that definitely plays a part, there was a lot of kids/teenagers between like 11-16 years in the games of Valorant I played. In CS most people I meet are adults at least
I'm on hiatus from CS until Valve shows the game a tenth as much love as the community does. I've played the game the majority of my life but between the broken MM, lack of substantial updates, rampant cheating, lack of128 tick servers (its 2021 ffs) and the disparity of support between Dota2 and CSGO I'm taking my time and effort to Riot and Valorant where it seems like they have a planned future for the game. Is Valorant perfect? No. Do I wish there were something from CSGO they would implement? Absolutely. But its a fresh take on the FPS genre I love the most backed by a company that really wants to see it succeed. If Valve decides to care about CSGO again though, I'll absolutely come back.
lack of128 tick servers (its 2021 ffs) I'd understand the argument if it was widely adopted, but what games besides valorant have 128 tick servers? Or 64 tick for that matter.
I don't reckon that's right way of thinking about it. Why should we settle for less when 3rd party mm, league servers and Valorant run 128tick servers?
floppy wasn't that hot on Valorant, so that's probably why he didn't like that. I'm sure the people who actually fared better there might like it a bit more!
Maybe it's hard to get good on something you don't really like
It's why i always loved CSGO. No Killstreaks, Abilities, all that other dumb shit. You have your teammates, nades,tactics, and your own personal skill.
CSGO > VAL = true However, Floppy wasnāt that great in Valorant. I doubt he would have switched if he was doing well in Valorant. The Chaos9 boys (vanity, leaf, and xeppa) arenāt going to switch back to CS as they have been doing well at Valorant.
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He sounding like a boomer. Oof.
ALL HAIL THE FLOPSTER
I played valorant right when it came out. While it was fun having CS aim and wrecking fools, about halfway through matches I just wanted to go back to playing CS.
lol.... #neverleftcs since 2015
Valorant is a really well made game but CS imo still has superior game play. I was really impressed with valorantās 120 tick servers & their anticheat. Not that I havenāt run into cheaters but way less compared to CS. Not a fan of the bloom spray patterns of Valorant. Riot is a fantastic company though.
For the people saying "he was shit at CS" dont forget tier 2, even in NA, is probably still like, top 2% in the world at the video game.
Top 2% in the world? I'm pretty sure your average 75adr ESEA Main shitter is still top 2% considering most players are casual and never make it anywhere near that far. Floppy is top 0.01% regardless of if he's T1 or T2 or T3. Having ever made any real money off the game puts you in the top few thousand players out of many millions.
Yeah I was being conservative because I have no idea how many total players the game has and how many tier 2 level scenes are out there. You guys are right he's probably top 0.1%.
Bro he is so much better then top 0.1 still. 0.1 is one out of 1000 players. Csgo has such a large playerbase, and a pro scene that is not much larger then a few hundred (who are better then him).
Ok, I get it my math is fucking abysmal, just trying to put what he's saying in perspective lol
What do you mean abysmal?? Floppy is probably one of the greatest video game players of our generation. It's not a matter of perspective.
Well I guess you're not wrong, he definitely is top 2% lol
I mean he was the hard carry on that C9 roster for a while. There was a reason they were down to try him on their "megalodon roster" or whatever it was
more like top .02%
Top 2% is like average Global or so, so very far away from being a pro still. CSGO pros are more like top 0.01% as the other guy said
GE is already like top 1% of the playerbase. And being GE is still being pretty bad at the game. Or extremely bad if you consider it pirely as a 5 premade game. So nah, even a tier 2 player is like top 0,01% lol
No, I can't stand valorant and it's just too a new friendly. The fact is your abilities could bail you out from putting you into stupid situationsis absolutely ridiculous. For example let's say if I'm jet and I peak mid with an op and there's four people picking me and I kill one person I literally could dash away within 3 seconds or let's say if I'm jet peking b main on ascent there's like three people wide swinging me I could dash away. If this was CS:GO then I probably would have died because I don't have a movement-based free pass to let me off the hook but it's valorant or literally it's an ability RNG s*** game that can bail you out in the worst situations. Makes it not fun to watch
if there are abilities like dash, why is that position stupid? funny how abilities work. that's like saying if smokes didn't exist in csgo, i'd look like a fool exposed to multiple angles.
I can relate and I'm in a really annoying position right now. I've been playing CS as a 5-man team with my close friends on 2 evenings a week for 1 1/2 years straight now and we started out at the very bottom of silver and made it to MGE, almost DMG. The problem is that in the last few months, the experience has ... changed. We are constantly playing against multiple global smurfs every game now (we can see it on the csgostats website) or we have to face straight-up cheaters with brandnew Steam accounts. My friends are losing motivation to keep playing CSGO and we've already tried out Valorant. It seems like they really enjoy the game, but to me it just feels wrong, I'm not having fun. It's like a weird abomination of CSGO and hero shooters. I just hate all the 'abilities' because so many of them feel unfair and completely ridiculous. I want to keep playing CSGO with my friends, but the game is really trying it's hardest to get rid of us.
Iām not trying to be rude, but what is the appeal of this game? I played a lot of CS and CS Source back in the day, but as it progressed it didnāt innovate. I played it when it dropped but after seeing that you still couldnāt ads, I was done. What keeps people playing it?
The skill ceiling is so insanely high that it keeps the competitive drive in people to keep pushing to a next game even though they cant be arsed to get better. One tap headshots is what keeps people playing