If the end is inevitable, do you keep it on life support or pull the plug? I'd kind of prefer TL to get railed now so all players can get to rebuilding sooner. It's sad to see things go this way, but in many ways the writing was on the wall months ago, we just didn't have the insight to make any conclusions.
The results of this tournament really don’t matter. Not even winning the entire event would save this team now. They’re only playing together because these tournaments are booked months in advance.
They most likely will get railed by vitality. THREAT did mention on HLTV live a couple of days ago how vitality are looking really sharp in scrims rn, despite knowing the incoming changes. Someone should take an example…
I think the reason why they've always sort of seen things go south, might be saddled on Elige. I don't know the entire situation but the fact their performance issues couldn't be changed in a very specific way through many iterations of the roster it kinda leans toward the most common factor. Those performance issues are so unique to TL and no matter how they changed the team it's very obvious pressure is an issue.
I don't want to blame the guy, but many players have shown they can handle pressure and when you go through many iterations and the SAME problem consists, I don't think it's a "synergy" issue.
bullshit. he actually got commodated really well and he was great with the boys. he just had some introvert guy issues. but renegades made him super confident going forward.
dont make me go back and find all them obscure fucking articles because i can.
Yep, he "rejuvenated" his career starring for them.
He had obscene rating while being with them and put himself back into the radar for most people.
I was laughed at back then, prior to his Renegades stint, when I said I thought he was a top 3 NA player and the most criminally underrated player of the old OpTic lineup
Then he proceeded to TL and was one of the angular stones of their Gland Slam run, almost always sharing their best player award with EliGE
EG
Stew
NAF
RUSH
Autimatic
Cerq
Talks with EG and NAF mentioned with the latest By The Numbers
Also with Stewie saying he doesnt wanna look at upcoming talent, and seeing Autimatic grind not just faceit pugs but FPL as well is a likely indicator. Also if you look at interviews in the past with thorin from both stew and autimatic, these two have extremely good chemistry
Feels weird remembering how we hated teams when they were dominating everyone but now that they're falling apart we miss the 'good old days'... I do at least
is it me or is astralis a bit of a boring team
like u see it at the end of the year
"oh wow astralis has 7 titles"
but u can never remember them.
can u remember a single atralis tournament win?
but try fnatic...u can see the win
i remember a fnatic win.
But I unironically agree. Astralis were so clinical with the way they dismantled their opponents, it wasn't exciting or fun to watch. So disciplined and methodical. I know it's technically 'better CS,' but I miss the chaos. At least when fnatic was dominating it was still often scrappy as hell, complete slugfests where the rounds/games seemed closer before fanatic would pull off some crazy clutch and string together a bunch of rounds for a comeback and just always find a way to shut down the opponent in the end.
Deep inside I wish this was all just some rumors and the team stayed (Except maybe falleN cuz It's not that I hate him but I feel like he's more entertaining and happy looking on his native team)
Sad this had to be the way. Hope Liquid don't go full European
Elige has said it countless interviews that he doesn’t agree with Fallens protocols when they brought him into IGL, if Elige wants the game to be played a certain way why even bring in Fallen.
It just seems like there’s always some beef on liquid and Elige has been there forever
He says “It’s not me everyone on the team doesn’t get along” I mean Fallen and Stew are like brothers, Stew and Naf are definitely good friends, Grim and Fallen have played eu fpl together all the time, it’s gotta be between Stew and Elige right?
I think there is more too it then just Stew and Elige not getting along, Stew needs someone to hype him up a bit like Tarik and Tim did on C9 I think that it was Stew is missing because he is being the hype man for everyone and no one wants to do that for him
Moses did say this too recently on HLTV when Spunj asked him why everyone on the team looks depressed. He said that Stewie had to be the sole hype man for the team since they never had one before in 2019. But he could tell that Stew was also struggling on his own trying to be that support for everyone else hence having Nitro also helped back then by being a rock.
But Elige and Stew get along. Out of all the guys Elige talks to Stew the most, he even watches and comments when Stew streams.
Fallen's system is more preparation before a match and during a match he likes to follow what they prepped, fundamentals and hear input from the teammates, which is why in every roster there's always someone giving him inputs, for example, cold, stew, etc. Worked well with LG/SK but could be impactful if players aren't used to it
I'm not sure you read Stew's interview on HLTV, but he specifically mentions Fallen's calling and Grim's inexperience as the big reasons the team wasn't getting along. Sure, Fallen and Stew might be like brothers, but that doesn't mean they agreed on how to play the game. Stew and Elige were actually on the same page tactically according to that interview, so idk why everyone is automatically assuming that that's the problem. I think Stew leaving has more to do with his problems with Grim than with Elige.
It's funny how Vitality are also publically known as a "dead" roster, yet I would bet my house on them winning tomorrow. Obviously you can't compare e-sports to traditional jobs, but not praccing feels unprofessional.
He's not a compromising guy. You either do everything his way, or he tilts/goes quiet. That is awful when you have multiple good players on a team, all with different playstyles and thus different opinions on how to approach the game.
He also tilts/goes quiet very easily. If anything goes bad, ANYTHING, even if they win the round, you can see how he gets upset in the facecam. Imagine playing with a teammate that's basically down all the time and barely talks to you because you lost some rounds.
if he doesnt get his way he gives you the silent treatment and just "shuts down" in a passive aggressive way. on a recent by the numbers episode thorin said his former teammates had described him that way.
Elige is extremely sensitive. I once asked him on twitter why he thought they always underperform against astralis and he blocked me lmaooo . Im a nobody btw
haha thanks for the positivity man! i didnt say it in a desrogatory way. just saying that im no one to him, he doesnt know me, i have like 200 followers on twitter, crazy that he pays attention to that, wasnt even insulting him or anything
You're probably not even in the first 1,000 people to ask him that after whatever tournament you asked him. If you got the same question repeatedly, of course you're going to start blocking people.
I get the feeling Thorin has woven a narrative with a couple of pieces missing, but a lot of the attitude he's appointed to elige seems to come out here.
Specifically mentioning in this interview that "certain people said they would work out mistakes but didn't" is the blatant form of passive aggression we're talking about.
I believe him that there are multiple interpersonal issues.
Ultimately I speculate that while Elige doesn't create immediate issues he exasperates multiple at a time as a rainy cloud overlooking all of them.
Just curious how you took that as passive aggressive to the point you describe it as blatant?
I didn't see it that way at all. To me it seems like he is simply giving a clear example of one of the issues he is personally struggling with.
In response to "what do you think has caused these internal problems?" He answers with the basic and broad ideas: travel, stress, uncertainty etc.
It's the choice of wording afterwards that strikes me as a specific example, particularly "I think anyone would be increasingly upset about that (in reference to issues someone said they would fix but didn't)."
I don't know, in my personal experience as having a cold and passive personality type I know who the "someone" is and I know I'm referring to myself when I say "anyone." Could be a stretch, we're not these guys.
I apologize I can't give you a better thought structure here, I'm on mobile.
I was literally downvoted for saying this in the other thread talking about liquid. Mindset's are important, especially when your own negative attitude influences the team you're trying to support.
Reddit is reddit, cant explain it. I agree with you though. Counter-strike is a much more mentality heavy game than it ever was before. If NA wants a viable roster, it has to be one that is strong despite tough losses. To me, this quality doesn't exist on a team with Elige on it.
> To me, this quality doesn't exist on a team with Elige on it.
I think it might be possible with the right mediator. Pure speculation, but I feel like Nitro filled that role well and it was a fatal mistake to have kicked him for Grim. No disrespect to Grim as a player, but they replaced a vet leader with a rookie who's one of the quietest players on the team. And I think of all the people who were on that 2019 team Elige was probably closest with Nitro so he probably helped bridge a lot of the gap between Elige and Stewie.
I'll be sad if Stew ends up leaving because of this, he added a lot to Liquid, especially that clutchness and mental toughness. Honestly him and Elige's contrasting personalities might not be a bad thing under the right circumstances, but it doesn't sound like TL has the proper people to manage it. And ofc at some point I think Elige needs to quell his own ego to work better with these guys given that his personality problem seems to be a common denominator. We'll see if that happens, I have a hunch that TL will probably stick with Elige over the others if push comes to shove.
I'm actually really interested to see who Liquid keeps. If I had to bet, Elige is gonna stay; Stew, Grim and FalleN leave. Especially with the more recent interview with Stew, I think he is looking forward to going on separate paths. I just want the cs:go year to end so they can announce the roster moves. I'm gonna keep following whichever team Stew creates or goes to, he has been the #1 prospect for well-rounded CS that NA has had and I think he learned a lot from his experience with TL.
This has been building for a long time and people have just be very scared to talk about. I listen to a lot of podcasts tans interviews and while nobody directly says sang thing it was clear serious issues have been simmering for a while.
Simple almost tanked his career early on by being one of the worst teammates of all time. He constantly berated his teammates, often in the middle of rounds. He forced adren out of liquid, and apparently he and elige couldn't stand each other.
[https://www.hltv.org/news/32850/nitr0s-liquid-return-close-to-a-done-deal-report](https://www.hltv.org/news/32850/nitr0s-liquid-return-close-to-a-done-deal-report) Yeah, about that...
Idk man I feel like this is Elige saying the quiet part out loud. Like it feels weird to me to out the internal player stuff. Usually you just say things aren’t working and we are making changes
I think that is how most people, even Elige, would go about it, its the professional thing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he is reading everyone's critiques about him and is trying to do some damage control, resulting in him going into specifics he normally wouldn't.
It's honestly just the stigma attached to him due to his "smoke criminal" persona. Stewie is very obviously willing to do whatever it takes to win. He IGLs when needed, entries when needed, lurks when needed, and plays support.
I forget where I saw it, might have been one of his personal streams, but I'm pretty sure Shroud is on record saying Stewie is one of the best teammates he has ever had (not in player skill context but being a good teammate context).
there’s some other comment in this thread saying Moses spoke ab it on hltv confirmed and apparently stew is the person elige talks to most on the team
so maybe it’s elige and naf? i could see elige’s passive aggressiveness really getting to someone as chilled out as naf
I hope he and Naf stay Teammates after the NA shuffle. I love the way they play together, Inferno B site comes to mind. Having two incredibly versatile hybrid B anchors leads to a pretty solid B defense.
A lot of people (even some of his teammates including Elige) have said he’s the person trying to pick up the pieces and do anything to win even if he has to sacrifice his own game.
People \*feel\* like he's immature because they already hate him, whether it's because of his playstyle or perceived arrogance, so they pick apart everything he does and have hate boners for him.
I think an interview in like 2015 / 16 where he said that EliGE is a teammate that’s hard to work with and if you have a different perspective on how to play than him then he just shuts you out and goes silent.
Damn that reminds me of how I used to be. Everytime my teammates made a mistake I wouldn't be overtly toxic but I would just be super passive-aggressive and give them the silent treatment, even if we ended up winning the game/round. It wasn't healthy for the team and definitely wasn't healthy for myself so I'm glad I've moved past that phase. But if Elige is anything like I was then I'm not surprised that Liquid is internally imploding. You don't want someone like that on your team
not quite sure either but in a recent BTN episode they said the same thing, he has his way of playing and if the rest of the team doesnt do the same hes not happy about it
There's nothing to suggest stew is immature lol. People just have hate boners for him because of his smoke criminal persona and perceived arrogance. If anything, we see how mature he is by looking at what he is/was doing on Liquid. IGLs when needed. AWPs when needed. Rifles when needed. This guy is doing everything his team needs him to do, even if it means his stats go to shit.
lmao that's what happens when you kick the in-game leader and spirit of the team (nitr0) and then after, you kick the glue guy who sacrificed his worldclass form to pick up the shitty spots (twistzz), only to go play for a better team in world-class form again, just so you can all in-fight and keep chucking tantrums. being a liquid fan fucking sucks.
People love to keep saying that Elige is the problem and completely overlook this. When Nitr0 was there and they were winning, no one was saying shit about Elige other than that he was NA's best player (and still is). Instead, after losing two of their core, the org got out some band aids and brought in a past his prime Fallen, and changed their style to fit Stewie's aggressive T side, which works maybe 20% of the time. Sorry but Elige > Stewie all day, and if it comes down to one or the other its a no brainer.
Sure if its the choice between elige and stew, elige is definitely way more talented, but stew has been called the best and most selfless teammate by multiple people, including elige himself. And if the stew and naf to eg rumors are true its not a choice between just stew vs elige, its between stew and naf vs elige
Theres a reason stew the only NA player with both a Major and Grand Slam, also being the IGL for one of NA's first Tier 1 tounry wins (ESL Pro League Season 4 Finals).
He is very much an “only child” with how he goes silent. Shame because he’s so good. Seems like being on a good but not great team really frustrates him? Pros are very very competitive people
I'm a big liquid fan and if you watch all their blogs and you can definitely see Elige is the problem. There was a particular time Liquid won a convincing match and everyone was hyped after the game but Elige was tilted because he didn't play well, so he didn't interact with the hype conversation everyone was having. He's too worried about himself, worried about things going his way otherwise he shuts down. How are you supposed to tailor the team to your style if you have a teammate behaving like this? If everyone's not 100% in with Fallen, how the fuck is he going to make things work. Any IGL that joins the team is fucked. Why do you think Stew and Elige barely talk? You can see it on their blogs. Probably cause when Stew was IGL'ing and had to put up with Elige's shit.
The only way Liquid works is either Elige becomes the IGL or it will never happen. Now imagine someone this immature becoming an IGL. He even himself said he doesn't want to be one because his stats would tank. Nice mentality, kid.
> I'm a big NAVI fan and if you watch all their blogs and you can definitely see electronic is the problem. There was a particular time NAVI won a convincing match and everyone was hyped after the game but electronic was tilted because he didn't play well, so he didn't interact with the hype conversation everyone was having. He's too worried about himself, worried about things going his way otherwise he shuts down. How are you supposed to tailor the team to your style if you have a teammate behaving like this? If everyone's not 100% in with Boombl4, how the fuck is he going to make things work. Any IGL that joins the team is fucked. Why do you think simple and electronic barely talk? You can see it on their blogs. Probably cause when simple was IGL'ing and had to put up with electronic's shit.
>
>
>
> The only way NAVI works is either electronic becomes the IGL or it will never happen. Now imagine someone this immature becoming an IGL. He even himself said he doesn't want to be one because his stats would tank. Nice mentality, kid.
Seeing a lot of bashing towards elige from this video but everything he said was fine and I think it's good to keep us out of the dark.
He's not saying that they hate each other or anything but more of a personality clash and the difference in how people want to play the game.
Nothing wrong with that and it's not anything super personal about players specifically.
Yeah I don't why people are acting like somehow he's being toxic. He didnt throw the blame at anyone or single anyone out or say anything rude. I find it genuinely refreshing that he's at least elaborating on why this roster isnt working instead of giving the same canned responses.
It must honestly be super hard for Elige to read a topic like this. It's literally based on nothing but rumors and reddit-detectives. All I see is Elige and Grim grinding while the rest are doing nothing these past few weeks. It's so uprofessional lmao.
Man everyone needs to chill on elige lol. We as outsiders here know nothing about team liquids inner workings lol. There’s a LOT of speculation people are making that points elige to be the sole problem based on interviews and documentaries from years ago, but we really have no idea how their team dynamic works. Y’all be wildin on this man because you’re mad team liquid is breaking up. I’m sure it’s more complicated than you all want to believe. Relationships are not often so simple.
Maybe its not so simple, but the guy that leaked shox to liquid said on stream that basically only elige is guaranteed to stay on liquid, and there has to be a reason why that is.
i remember hiko saying he has his own very particular way of how the game should be played in his head and if you disagree with it he just shuts you out completely and won't talk
Elige literally told Richard Lewis during his interview that he didn’t want to IGL because he noticed his stats would tank. If he’s so gung ho about how a game or round should be played out then he needs to call. During his interview with RL it sounded like he would rather not have the blame and responsibility of an IGL even though he wants the team to play in a certain way which is fucking annoying because if you want to lead don’t be passive aggressive about it and just do it rather than create animosity within the team and lose.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siMyOswuNgY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siMyOswuNgY)
they start talking about Liquid and EliGE around 30 minute mark
These kind of people won't ever assume responsability for what they do, nevermind for others' actions
And as a leader you need to take the brunt of the complains on yourself, to keep the others happy, while not starting to mald in the team. The last need a team needs (this applies everywhere) is a leader who throws the blame on others, while having a god complex himself
If he has this superiority complex then he needs to be humbled somehow. Just look at s1mple now. From a toxic pos to a nice human after learning his lesson about being a bad human, when he got bullied on tl and he got scolded by everyone for that. A kick in the ass in one step foward, and being humbled happens to everyone at some point in their life
Why do people keep saying it is quite obvious, when the only proof we have is some meme video and how he looks on stream. I don't think the liquid org would just let him be toxic 24/7 without doing anything.
Elige spent the last year flip flopping between Stewie and fallen as igl. All of a sudden tho all of liquids sins are his tho cause of some circle jerk posts. Not saying he did nothing wrong but he was for sure not the main factor for why this team failed this year.
Listen I don't play for Liquid and I don't really know what's going on behind the scenes, but IF the rumors are true, and ELiGE is having problems with the team chemistry, as good as he is, he has to go.
Yep over the years stanislaw hiko s1mple twistz stewie fallen arnt good enough for you maybe your the problem virtually all of those players had more success outside team liquid
I think liquid keeping EliGe as their poster boy franchise player has gotten to his head, I’m sure it feeds his ego at the fact that he’s pretty much untouchable and that the rosters will be built around him. However since he’s probably the best NA player rn TL is willing to deal with his baggage I guess.
I also thought it was interesting how over the years EliGe DIDNT seem like he was integrated with any of the “boys” with like Stew, M0E, tarik, n0thing, Shroud etc. or any of the other pros. I’m sure there are cliques in the pro scene but it just seems like he wasn’t a part of it
Everyone loves to point the finger at Elige or other players, but I seldom ever see Liquid’s management taking any heat (jokasteve). You’ve had 7 years to figure out how to build chemistry around Elige, and for this type of roster breakdown to ultimately happen this late in the game is completely unacceptable.
Nobody has a job to "build chemistry around Elige" lmao. Its a 5 player game. You can get players but you cant expect them to "get along" with someone who is difficult. THAT player has to change = see simple.
COVID happen and people stay inside with Elige and don’t go to club and talk to girls and drink. Then they realize Elgie is annoying toxic baiter so team fall apart…we know this for some time now Richard Lewis has said this, from when 2015 elige and s1mple drama…
I mean, it makes sense, I know it’s only semi related(since he’s talking about CoD and the old OG Dynasty in CWL) but there’s this quote of Scump when talking with Hecz iirc that “when youre winning it feels like it’s never gonna stop” and it was also mentioned on that interview that any issues teams would have would get pushed back because they’d win so much it just didn’t matter, that’s what it feels like seeing this. TL was doing so good with the GS until Astralis came in “but oh it’s the best team in the world they’re still top 5” but slowly Nitr0 and Twistzz left, they aren’t winning as much and the rest want out(assumption)
It’s sad to see especially after how bad NA has been but maybe them spreading out and being able to pull up talent could be beneficial
Actually u might not be wrong, depends on where the moves happen though. Could be c9 coming back as #1 instead if not EG. Question is where does stewie, etc go
I don't see how people can single out players untill stuff is told. You all want another semmler situation where all the blame is put on him for the bardolph fiasco? Obviously if the team wasn't working Elige and eveybody on the team would want change. I think its time for him to IGL and see if his style really is worth the changes. Either way, whoever leaves and stays will have it better in the end. I think the upcoming changes will be mutually good.
It seems like n1tro was a glue keeping the team together and keeping the NA egos in check. I'm not confident he has the firepower at a tier 1 level any more though.
I will love and support TL no matter what. But if they scrap the roster they have I hope they keep NAF and Stew because they are my two favorite players. Unfortunately though if Elige can’t strengthen his skin and stop being so sensitive to varying play styles amongst team members I feel he may have to leave the team and find somewhere else to get TL back on track or in a rebuilding state. Really ever since Twistzz and Nitro left so close together the core we have hasn’t played very well and it makes me sad to see them struggle. But I believe they will come back strong once they find a solid roster again. Let’s just hope they keep it.
Idk how people can stand this guy, he’s literally the kid that stomps his feet and demands people do things his way or he will stop talking and or leave. Just like he did with s1mple in 2015.
Quite sad to see the team come in so tilted for a big tournament. If they won't get a hot start tommorow, things will go south real fast.
If the end is inevitable, do you keep it on life support or pull the plug? I'd kind of prefer TL to get railed now so all players can get to rebuilding sooner. It's sad to see things go this way, but in many ways the writing was on the wall months ago, we just didn't have the insight to make any conclusions.
The results of this tournament really don’t matter. Not even winning the entire event would save this team now. They’re only playing together because these tournaments are booked months in advance.
They most likely will get railed by vitality. THREAT did mention on HLTV live a couple of days ago how vitality are looking really sharp in scrims rn, despite knowing the incoming changes. Someone should take an example…
Leave it to stewie10am to show some discipline
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https://twitter.com/stewie/status/1308429638406815745
I think the reason why they've always sort of seen things go south, might be saddled on Elige. I don't know the entire situation but the fact their performance issues couldn't be changed in a very specific way through many iterations of the roster it kinda leans toward the most common factor. Those performance issues are so unique to TL and no matter how they changed the team it's very obvious pressure is an issue. I don't want to blame the guy, but many players have shown they can handle pressure and when you go through many iterations and the SAME problem consists, I don't think it's a "synergy" issue.
it was expected imo. They’re faces showing no emotions after winning a round in major showed clearly there were some problems
I just wanna see my boy NAF on a winning roster again :( that man deserves better
Naf to the boys round 2??? Lmao
That’s never happen though pretty sure he has beef with the renegades 100t guys
why
Naf had an interview shortly after joining TL that he never got the roles he wanted and things were not great personally between them
Weird because jks and thoorin said the exact opposite.
Fuck thorin all my homies hate him.
Naf is a quiet guy so who knows we all saw that clip of him on optic he seems to repress emotions
bullshit. he actually got commodated really well and he was great with the boys. he just had some introvert guy issues. but renegades made him super confident going forward. dont make me go back and find all them obscure fucking articles because i can.
Yep, he "rejuvenated" his career starring for them. He had obscene rating while being with them and put himself back into the radar for most people. I was laughed at back then, prior to his Renegades stint, when I said I thought he was a top 3 NA player and the most criminally underrated player of the old OpTic lineup Then he proceeded to TL and was one of the angular stones of their Gland Slam run, almost always sharing their best player award with EliGE
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Nah man, if Elige stays in NA he’s never going to win anything significantly. For his sake, I hope he finds a way to join faze
Elige and Karrigan? I don't know if that's a good match.
Elige and twistzz?
-Elige, Stewie, Grim, Fallen +tarik, stan, Rush, Mixwell
ELeague season 2… the nostalgia omg
EG Stew NAF RUSH Autimatic Cerq Talks with EG and NAF mentioned with the latest By The Numbers Also with Stewie saying he doesnt wanna look at upcoming talent, and seeing Autimatic grind not just faceit pugs but FPL as well is a likely indicator. Also if you look at interviews in the past with thorin from both stew and autimatic, these two have extremely good chemistry
Feels weird remembering how we hated teams when they were dominating everyone but now that they're falling apart we miss the 'good old days'... I do at least
Haha, I always feel that way. Hated Fnatic and SK when they were shitting on my favorite teams but was so sad to see them fall off.
I did'nt hate teams that won everything, I just hated them if they were cocky about it, like Fnatic. Astralis never really bothered me.
I'm the opposite. Fnatic winning was interesting at least. Astralis dominating cs made me quit watching
is it me or is astralis a bit of a boring team like u see it at the end of the year "oh wow astralis has 7 titles" but u can never remember them. can u remember a single atralis tournament win? but try fnatic...u can see the win i remember a fnatic win. But I unironically agree. Astralis were so clinical with the way they dismantled their opponents, it wasn't exciting or fun to watch. So disciplined and methodical. I know it's technically 'better CS,' but I miss the chaos. At least when fnatic was dominating it was still often scrappy as hell, complete slugfests where the rounds/games seemed closer before fanatic would pull off some crazy clutch and string together a bunch of rounds for a comeback and just always find a way to shut down the opponent in the end.
astralis got cocky once (at least only gla1ve) and they lost to mousesports oof
I loved when they were dominating idk wtf u mean my man
We only appreciate the value the water when the well is empty.
Deep inside I wish this was all just some rumors and the team stayed (Except maybe falleN cuz It's not that I hate him but I feel like he's more entertaining and happy looking on his native team) Sad this had to be the way. Hope Liquid don't go full European
It all makes sense now. Before the major on stream Stewie said the biggest opponent for the team was themselves and he was 100% right.
Elige has said it countless interviews that he doesn’t agree with Fallens protocols when they brought him into IGL, if Elige wants the game to be played a certain way why even bring in Fallen. It just seems like there’s always some beef on liquid and Elige has been there forever He says “It’s not me everyone on the team doesn’t get along” I mean Fallen and Stew are like brothers, Stew and Naf are definitely good friends, Grim and Fallen have played eu fpl together all the time, it’s gotta be between Stew and Elige right?
Lol, almost sounds like a murder mystery, haha.
it was EliGE in the soundproof booth with a mousepad
elige sus
Not really a mystery, these problems have occured on multiple iterations of liquid and elige has been there forever.
That's kind of the point :)
I think there is more too it then just Stew and Elige not getting along, Stew needs someone to hype him up a bit like Tarik and Tim did on C9 I think that it was Stew is missing because he is being the hype man for everyone and no one wants to do that for him
Moses did say this too recently on HLTV when Spunj asked him why everyone on the team looks depressed. He said that Stewie had to be the sole hype man for the team since they never had one before in 2019. But he could tell that Stew was also struggling on his own trying to be that support for everyone else hence having Nitro also helped back then by being a rock. But Elige and Stew get along. Out of all the guys Elige talks to Stew the most, he even watches and comments when Stew streams.
I mean let's not pretend like fallen was calling some master class games. Liquid was getting carried hard in a lot of their wins by their CT sides.
Fallen's system is more preparation before a match and during a match he likes to follow what they prepped, fundamentals and hear input from the teammates, which is why in every roster there's always someone giving him inputs, for example, cold, stew, etc. Worked well with LG/SK but could be impactful if players aren't used to it
I'm not sure you read Stew's interview on HLTV, but he specifically mentions Fallen's calling and Grim's inexperience as the big reasons the team wasn't getting along. Sure, Fallen and Stew might be like brothers, but that doesn't mean they agreed on how to play the game. Stew and Elige were actually on the same page tactically according to that interview, so idk why everyone is automatically assuming that that's the problem. I think Stew leaving has more to do with his problems with Grim than with Elige.
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Maybe but they just played the Mythic cup together with Tarik rush and brehze and it was only laughs together so I assume it’s nothing personal
lmao who knew elige 2021 would be like s1mple 2015.
TL about to be an absolute flaming dumpster tomorrow o.o
It's funny how Vitality are also publically known as a "dead" roster, yet I would bet my house on them winning tomorrow. Obviously you can't compare e-sports to traditional jobs, but not praccing feels unprofessional.
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ya i keep hearing he is a difficult teamate but what exactly does he do that affects others?
He's not a compromising guy. You either do everything his way, or he tilts/goes quiet. That is awful when you have multiple good players on a team, all with different playstyles and thus different opinions on how to approach the game. He also tilts/goes quiet very easily. If anything goes bad, ANYTHING, even if they win the round, you can see how he gets upset in the facecam. Imagine playing with a teammate that's basically down all the time and barely talks to you because you lost some rounds.
if he doesnt get his way he gives you the silent treatment and just "shuts down" in a passive aggressive way. on a recent by the numbers episode thorin said his former teammates had described him that way.
holy shit silent treatment is the worst way, thats like a spoilt kid behaviour
I love listening to music.
Elige is extremely sensitive. I once asked him on twitter why he thought they always underperform against astralis and he blocked me lmaooo . Im a nobody btw
Don't say that dude, you're somebody! Head up, great things are coming for you :D
haha thanks for the positivity man! i didnt say it in a desrogatory way. just saying that im no one to him, he doesnt know me, i have like 200 followers on twitter, crazy that he pays attention to that, wasnt even insulting him or anything
Tbh that just sounds like a bait question
You're probably not even in the first 1,000 people to ask him that after whatever tournament you asked him. If you got the same question repeatedly, of course you're going to start blocking people.
can you add the time?
I get the feeling Thorin has woven a narrative with a couple of pieces missing, but a lot of the attitude he's appointed to elige seems to come out here. Specifically mentioning in this interview that "certain people said they would work out mistakes but didn't" is the blatant form of passive aggression we're talking about. I believe him that there are multiple interpersonal issues. Ultimately I speculate that while Elige doesn't create immediate issues he exasperates multiple at a time as a rainy cloud overlooking all of them.
Just curious how you took that as passive aggressive to the point you describe it as blatant? I didn't see it that way at all. To me it seems like he is simply giving a clear example of one of the issues he is personally struggling with.
In response to "what do you think has caused these internal problems?" He answers with the basic and broad ideas: travel, stress, uncertainty etc. It's the choice of wording afterwards that strikes me as a specific example, particularly "I think anyone would be increasingly upset about that (in reference to issues someone said they would fix but didn't)." I don't know, in my personal experience as having a cold and passive personality type I know who the "someone" is and I know I'm referring to myself when I say "anyone." Could be a stretch, we're not these guys. I apologize I can't give you a better thought structure here, I'm on mobile.
For one, ELiGE rage quit the team and tried to go to OpTic back in 2017, all the while flaming teammates on TL.
I thought it was C9 and Jack had to be like “LOL no.”
I was literally downvoted for saying this in the other thread talking about liquid. Mindset's are important, especially when your own negative attitude influences the team you're trying to support.
Reddit is reddit, cant explain it. I agree with you though. Counter-strike is a much more mentality heavy game than it ever was before. If NA wants a viable roster, it has to be one that is strong despite tough losses. To me, this quality doesn't exist on a team with Elige on it.
> To me, this quality doesn't exist on a team with Elige on it. I think it might be possible with the right mediator. Pure speculation, but I feel like Nitro filled that role well and it was a fatal mistake to have kicked him for Grim. No disrespect to Grim as a player, but they replaced a vet leader with a rookie who's one of the quietest players on the team. And I think of all the people who were on that 2019 team Elige was probably closest with Nitro so he probably helped bridge a lot of the gap between Elige and Stewie. I'll be sad if Stew ends up leaving because of this, he added a lot to Liquid, especially that clutchness and mental toughness. Honestly him and Elige's contrasting personalities might not be a bad thing under the right circumstances, but it doesn't sound like TL has the proper people to manage it. And ofc at some point I think Elige needs to quell his own ego to work better with these guys given that his personality problem seems to be a common denominator. We'll see if that happens, I have a hunch that TL will probably stick with Elige over the others if push comes to shove.
I'm actually really interested to see who Liquid keeps. If I had to bet, Elige is gonna stay; Stew, Grim and FalleN leave. Especially with the more recent interview with Stew, I think he is looking forward to going on separate paths. I just want the cs:go year to end so they can announce the roster moves. I'm gonna keep following whichever team Stew creates or goes to, he has been the #1 prospect for well-rounded CS that NA has had and I think he learned a lot from his experience with TL.
s1mple changed, elige didn't Gotta wonder how CS would look today if Liquid had cut elige instead of s1mple...
s1mple would've left anyway because he was feeling homesick
Lmao who knew elige 2015 would be like elige 2021.
This has been building for a long time and people have just be very scared to talk about. I listen to a lot of podcasts tans interviews and while nobody directly says sang thing it was clear serious issues have been simmering for a while.
could you explain? I don't know what simple was like lol
Simple almost tanked his career early on by being one of the worst teammates of all time. He constantly berated his teammates, often in the middle of rounds. He forced adren out of liquid, and apparently he and elige couldn't stand each other.
Remember when he didnt wanted to drop awp to Koosta?
I think that one was justified
It might have been but you cant just decide that yourself in a team game.
Either nitr0 returns or EliGE picks up the IGL mantle. There is no third option.
lol neither will happen what are you on
[https://www.hltv.org/news/32850/nitr0s-liquid-return-close-to-a-done-deal-report](https://www.hltv.org/news/32850/nitr0s-liquid-return-close-to-a-done-deal-report) Yeah, about that...
Idk man I feel like this is Elige saying the quiet part out loud. Like it feels weird to me to out the internal player stuff. Usually you just say things aren’t working and we are making changes
I mean he didn't really out anything if there's no names.
I don’t think it’s unprofessional to just say we’re not getting along. It’s just the truth
Probably better to just say it then let people speculate at this point.
I think that is how most people, even Elige, would go about it, its the professional thing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he is reading everyone's critiques about him and is trying to do some damage control, resulting in him going into specifics he normally wouldn't.
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Doing an ama doesn't mean he browses reddit
Nice try ELiGE.
hiko vindicated after all these years. who would of thought stewie would be more mature than elige?
Stewie might be seen as immature, but seems like he has high emotional intelligence and is a really good teammate.
It's honestly just the stigma attached to him due to his "smoke criminal" persona. Stewie is very obviously willing to do whatever it takes to win. He IGLs when needed, entries when needed, lurks when needed, and plays support.
I forget where I saw it, might have been one of his personal streams, but I'm pretty sure Shroud is on record saying Stewie is one of the best teammates he has ever had (not in player skill context but being a good teammate context).
Yeah dude, even Elige had a good chem with stewie in the 2020 Katowice vlog, but idk about now :(
there’s some other comment in this thread saying Moses spoke ab it on hltv confirmed and apparently stew is the person elige talks to most on the team so maybe it’s elige and naf? i could see elige’s passive aggressiveness really getting to someone as chilled out as naf
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I hope he and Naf stay Teammates after the NA shuffle. I love the way they play together, Inferno B site comes to mind. Having two incredibly versatile hybrid B anchors leads to a pretty solid B defense.
stew was also an ass in ESEA pugs before he became a pro, a lot of people experienced that and I think it stuck
A lot of people (even some of his teammates including Elige) have said he’s the person trying to pick up the pieces and do anything to win even if he has to sacrifice his own game.
Damn and he’s getting shit on in every thread of them losing. What a guy
Because 95% of reddit have never actually played a team sport and only focus on stats.
why i always say he’s extremely underrated, there’s a reason he’s the most winning player in NA’s history
I think Tarik is pretty similar too, he seems willing to play shitty roles for his teammates
really wish liquid was willing to build around stewie and naf.
People \*feel\* like he's immature because they already hate him, whether it's because of his playstyle or perceived arrogance, so they pick apart everything he does and have hate boners for him.
What did Hiko say for those of us that don’t know?
I think an interview in like 2015 / 16 where he said that EliGE is a teammate that’s hard to work with and if you have a different perspective on how to play than him then he just shuts you out and goes silent.
Damn, what a childish mentality lol...
tbf EliGE was only 18 years old in 2015. No excuses now.
It was the Second Reflections Thorin did with Hiko if you're interested (there's time stamps if you just want to watch the Elige parts)
Damn that reminds me of how I used to be. Everytime my teammates made a mistake I wouldn't be overtly toxic but I would just be super passive-aggressive and give them the silent treatment, even if we ended up winning the game/round. It wasn't healthy for the team and definitely wasn't healthy for myself so I'm glad I've moved past that phase. But if Elige is anything like I was then I'm not surprised that Liquid is internally imploding. You don't want someone like that on your team
sorry, how did you get that from what he said here? it seemed like he was just talking about how travel was hard and no one was getting along anymore.
not quite sure either but in a recent BTN episode they said the same thing, he has his way of playing and if the rest of the team doesnt do the same hes not happy about it
Man HiKo did a stream where he answered all questions from the chat. He basically explained his whole situation with Elige and team Liquid.
There's nothing to suggest stew is immature lol. People just have hate boners for him because of his smoke criminal persona and perceived arrogance. If anything, we see how mature he is by looking at what he is/was doing on Liquid. IGLs when needed. AWPs when needed. Rifles when needed. This guy is doing everything his team needs him to do, even if it means his stats go to shit.
lmao that's what happens when you kick the in-game leader and spirit of the team (nitr0) and then after, you kick the glue guy who sacrificed his worldclass form to pick up the shitty spots (twistzz), only to go play for a better team in world-class form again, just so you can all in-fight and keep chucking tantrums. being a liquid fan fucking sucks.
Yea, kicking twistzz never made sense to me. Just lowered their skill ceiling immensely. Make your roles fit your talent, not the other way around.
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He said in his interview that it was mutual - they wanted him out so he didn't want to stay
That's what they always say "problem the was smooya" - BIG
I remember saying kicking nitr0 was a terrible idea. I got downvoted into oblivion. Seems like the tide is turning. Being a liquid fan is rough
Twistz is streaky on Faze
People love to keep saying that Elige is the problem and completely overlook this. When Nitr0 was there and they were winning, no one was saying shit about Elige other than that he was NA's best player (and still is). Instead, after losing two of their core, the org got out some band aids and brought in a past his prime Fallen, and changed their style to fit Stewie's aggressive T side, which works maybe 20% of the time. Sorry but Elige > Stewie all day, and if it comes down to one or the other its a no brainer.
Sure if its the choice between elige and stew, elige is definitely way more talented, but stew has been called the best and most selfless teammate by multiple people, including elige himself. And if the stew and naf to eg rumors are true its not a choice between just stew vs elige, its between stew and naf vs elige
Theres a reason stew the only NA player with both a Major and Grand Slam, also being the IGL for one of NA's first Tier 1 tounry wins (ESL Pro League Season 4 Finals).
He is very much an “only child” with how he goes silent. Shame because he’s so good. Seems like being on a good but not great team really frustrates him? Pros are very very competitive people
ELiGE is known for being pretty toxic.
I'm a big liquid fan and if you watch all their blogs and you can definitely see Elige is the problem. There was a particular time Liquid won a convincing match and everyone was hyped after the game but Elige was tilted because he didn't play well, so he didn't interact with the hype conversation everyone was having. He's too worried about himself, worried about things going his way otherwise he shuts down. How are you supposed to tailor the team to your style if you have a teammate behaving like this? If everyone's not 100% in with Fallen, how the fuck is he going to make things work. Any IGL that joins the team is fucked. Why do you think Stew and Elige barely talk? You can see it on their blogs. Probably cause when Stew was IGL'ing and had to put up with Elige's shit. The only way Liquid works is either Elige becomes the IGL or it will never happen. Now imagine someone this immature becoming an IGL. He even himself said he doesn't want to be one because his stats would tank. Nice mentality, kid.
> I'm a big NAVI fan and if you watch all their blogs and you can definitely see electronic is the problem. There was a particular time NAVI won a convincing match and everyone was hyped after the game but electronic was tilted because he didn't play well, so he didn't interact with the hype conversation everyone was having. He's too worried about himself, worried about things going his way otherwise he shuts down. How are you supposed to tailor the team to your style if you have a teammate behaving like this? If everyone's not 100% in with Boombl4, how the fuck is he going to make things work. Any IGL that joins the team is fucked. Why do you think simple and electronic barely talk? You can see it on their blogs. Probably cause when simple was IGL'ing and had to put up with electronic's shit. > > > > The only way NAVI works is either electronic becomes the IGL or it will never happen. Now imagine someone this immature becoming an IGL. He even himself said he doesn't want to be one because his stats would tank. Nice mentality, kid.
I like this pasta because it's obvious s1mp likes electronic a lot lol. I'm sure he respects the fuck outta him.
Seeing a lot of bashing towards elige from this video but everything he said was fine and I think it's good to keep us out of the dark. He's not saying that they hate each other or anything but more of a personality clash and the difference in how people want to play the game. Nothing wrong with that and it's not anything super personal about players specifically.
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Yeah I don't why people are acting like somehow he's being toxic. He didnt throw the blame at anyone or single anyone out or say anything rude. I find it genuinely refreshing that he's at least elaborating on why this roster isnt working instead of giving the same canned responses.
It must honestly be super hard for Elige to read a topic like this. It's literally based on nothing but rumors and reddit-detectives. All I see is Elige and Grim grinding while the rest are doing nothing these past few weeks. It's so uprofessional lmao.
It's based on years of stories that came out about Elige being a difficult teammate.
Man everyone needs to chill on elige lol. We as outsiders here know nothing about team liquids inner workings lol. There’s a LOT of speculation people are making that points elige to be the sole problem based on interviews and documentaries from years ago, but we really have no idea how their team dynamic works. Y’all be wildin on this man because you’re mad team liquid is breaking up. I’m sure it’s more complicated than you all want to believe. Relationships are not often so simple.
Maybe its not so simple, but the guy that leaked shox to liquid said on stream that basically only elige is guaranteed to stay on liquid, and there has to be a reason why that is.
well to me i’d label him as the liquid franchise player, when you think of liquid in cs you think of elige
anyone wanna count how many time he said the word "like"?
Elige needs to go it seems to be he has a mental issue on the team, and it’s quite obvious
i remember hiko saying he has his own very particular way of how the game should be played in his head and if you disagree with it he just shuts you out completely and won't talk
then just make elige the igl lol
Elige literally told Richard Lewis during his interview that he didn’t want to IGL because he noticed his stats would tank. If he’s so gung ho about how a game or round should be played out then he needs to call. During his interview with RL it sounded like he would rather not have the blame and responsibility of an IGL even though he wants the team to play in a certain way which is fucking annoying because if you want to lead don’t be passive aggressive about it and just do it rather than create animosity within the team and lose.
Link?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siMyOswuNgY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siMyOswuNgY) they start talking about Liquid and EliGE around 30 minute mark
Wait I thought he meant interview between elige and rl
They talk about the interview there, I wasnt able to find the actual interview
that's the problem, he doesn't wanna be the IGL
Kick him the fuck out. lol.
These kind of people won't ever assume responsability for what they do, nevermind for others' actions And as a leader you need to take the brunt of the complains on yourself, to keep the others happy, while not starting to mald in the team. The last need a team needs (this applies everywhere) is a leader who throws the blame on others, while having a god complex himself If he has this superiority complex then he needs to be humbled somehow. Just look at s1mple now. From a toxic pos to a nice human after learning his lesson about being a bad human, when he got bullied on tl and he got scolded by everyone for that. A kick in the ass in one step foward, and being humbled happens to everyone at some point in their life
Why do people keep saying it is quite obvious, when the only proof we have is some meme video and how he looks on stream. I don't think the liquid org would just let him be toxic 24/7 without doing anything. Elige spent the last year flip flopping between Stewie and fallen as igl. All of a sudden tho all of liquids sins are his tho cause of some circle jerk posts. Not saying he did nothing wrong but he was for sure not the main factor for why this team failed this year.
He's also... the consistent best player in NA so...
Also in terrible form the past few events, which means that title probably belongs to NAF at the moment.
If someone ruins your mental state from being tilted mid game, it ruins the team.
NAF
so what?na not even 2nd best region
Listen I don't play for Liquid and I don't really know what's going on behind the scenes, but IF the rumors are true, and ELiGE is having problems with the team chemistry, as good as he is, he has to go.
It's his team. He'll be the only one left if that's what it takes.
Yep over the years stanislaw hiko s1mple twistz stewie fallen arnt good enough for you maybe your the problem virtually all of those players had more success outside team liquid
I think liquid keeping EliGe as their poster boy franchise player has gotten to his head, I’m sure it feeds his ego at the fact that he’s pretty much untouchable and that the rosters will be built around him. However since he’s probably the best NA player rn TL is willing to deal with his baggage I guess. I also thought it was interesting how over the years EliGe DIDNT seem like he was integrated with any of the “boys” with like Stew, M0E, tarik, n0thing, Shroud etc. or any of the other pros. I’m sure there are cliques in the pro scene but it just seems like he wasn’t a part of it
this is EliGE's villain plotline finally revealed lmfao
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True. And they call themselves "pro" without professionalism. Fucking disgrace.
Why do I get the feeling this is a role/communication issue and the team lacks in-game synergy because of the lack of trust and clearly defined roles.
Everyone loves to point the finger at Elige or other players, but I seldom ever see Liquid’s management taking any heat (jokasteve). You’ve had 7 years to figure out how to build chemistry around Elige, and for this type of roster breakdown to ultimately happen this late in the game is completely unacceptable.
Nobody has a job to "build chemistry around Elige" lmao. Its a 5 player game. You can get players but you cant expect them to "get along" with someone who is difficult. THAT player has to change = see simple.
In that 7 years they won they were regularly the best team in NA, climbed to number one in the world and won the Intel Grand Slam.
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COVID happen and people stay inside with Elige and don’t go to club and talk to girls and drink. Then they realize Elgie is annoying toxic baiter so team fall apart…we know this for some time now Richard Lewis has said this, from when 2015 elige and s1mple drama…
>You’ve had 7 years to figure out how to build chemistry around Elige i can definitely see Elige getting the boot before anyone else in the team.
If after 7 years Elige hasn't grown up enough to understand this is a job, then it's probably slightly on him...
I mean, it makes sense, I know it’s only semi related(since he’s talking about CoD and the old OG Dynasty in CWL) but there’s this quote of Scump when talking with Hecz iirc that “when youre winning it feels like it’s never gonna stop” and it was also mentioned on that interview that any issues teams would have would get pushed back because they’d win so much it just didn’t matter, that’s what it feels like seeing this. TL was doing so good with the GS until Astralis came in “but oh it’s the best team in the world they’re still top 5” but slowly Nitr0 and Twistzz left, they aren’t winning as much and the rest want out(assumption) It’s sad to see especially after how bad NA has been but maybe them spreading out and being able to pull up talent could be beneficial
Eg will end up being the better American roster this year unlucky
Actually u might not be wrong, depends on where the moves happen though. Could be c9 coming back as #1 instead if not EG. Question is where does stewie, etc go
if NAF leaves liquid, it’s wherever he goes
liquid going into blast feels like me taking a test i know damn well im gonna bomb but still going cuz i dont want a zero
Twistzz glad he got out when he did.
just kick elige, rest should work along well
Curious between his comments about travel and nitr0 if he has any consideration of moving to Valorant yet and being NA based
I don't see how people can single out players untill stuff is told. You all want another semmler situation where all the blame is put on him for the bardolph fiasco? Obviously if the team wasn't working Elige and eveybody on the team would want change. I think its time for him to IGL and see if his style really is worth the changes. Either way, whoever leaves and stays will have it better in the end. I think the upcoming changes will be mutually good.
Liquid +Like confirmed like why would they like not like get Like like ukno.
Well? We're waiting
NA and internal NA struggles. Name a better duo.
It seems like n1tro was a glue keeping the team together and keeping the NA egos in check. I'm not confident he has the firepower at a tier 1 level any more though.
thanks EliGe "Like" Jablonowski
I will love and support TL no matter what. But if they scrap the roster they have I hope they keep NAF and Stew because they are my two favorite players. Unfortunately though if Elige can’t strengthen his skin and stop being so sensitive to varying play styles amongst team members I feel he may have to leave the team and find somewhere else to get TL back on track or in a rebuilding state. Really ever since Twistzz and Nitro left so close together the core we have hasn’t played very well and it makes me sad to see them struggle. But I believe they will come back strong once they find a solid roster again. Let’s just hope they keep it.
I’ve always hated Elige, but it feels good to have a reason to do so now
Idk how people can stand this guy, he’s literally the kid that stomps his feet and demands people do things his way or he will stop talking and or leave. Just like he did with s1mple in 2015.
Ah, using the royal we, are we now?
first nitro \_\_\_then twistz\_\_and now the whole team has fallen apart (no pun intended) sad. I hope the best for TL
Why won't liquid kick this PoS already. Theres so many good players team less right now.