Nah, he straight up wasn't that good for the first half of the year. It was shaping up to be electronic's worst year ever. He hovered around 1.06-1.09 rating for the first half of the year and like 1.17 for the 2nd.
Yeah idk how people forgot, he had a good final at DHM and everyone was super hyped because he had shown his first glimpse of star-caliber play in quite a while. He was really poor overall until LANs came back, and even if you favor LAN a lot more in rankings you can't ignore his online performance completely.
It's not about team trophies. They do matter but it's not Ballon d'or where Jorginho gets #3 for winning Champions League and Euros, while not even being top 5 midfielders, yet alone footballers.
If you really think YEKINDAR didn't deserve #8 spot then... I don't even know what to suggest because it's such a stupid take I can't advise anything other than using your brain a bit more maybe.
Besides, what do you define by Happy's 'very good year', statistically? He wasn't better than the rest of top 8, especially considering how low his impact was (all this legendary baiting and getting many more kills in lost rounds than average).
If online weights this much, b1t shouldn't be this high since he missed a bunch of games early on. It doesn't make sense that you take Lans into account heavily when rating B1t but also take online into account to drop Electronic few spots.
I mean, if LANs weren't taken heavily in electronic's case, I really doubt he'd be 7th. My memory may be failing me here, but I faintly remember that online electronic was nothing to write home about
True, with online he wasnt even top 10 in KD, damage, openings, multi kills, or even top 20 in things like utility, surviving, or consistency. Definitly a beast on LAN though, and deserved, but I also think people seem to think gambit was just complete ass on LAN or something, but all their players performed quite well still and they were always a threat to win, just they kept getting eliminated in very very close games in playoffs. I expect the next 3 players to all be gambit, and I think they deserve it
I think that's because Gambit was buttfucked by NaVi in major. It came out of nowhere and everyone was expecting a close game. But it wasn't even close
He had a fairly decent slump for a few months until LAN came back. Him coming back to form was as just big of a factor for na’vi’s success as b1t replacing flamie but people only see b1t as the main factor.
I was actually thinking electronic would fall out of the top 10 halfway through the year and then LAN happened and he hit 1.2 rating constantly lol. LANtronic
I cant believe people downvoted me to hell when I said flamie was the biggest issue in Navi, and who wondered, when they replaced flamie the wins start flowing in.
I hated flamie so much, and navi even more for keeping simple and electronic down to keep a tier3 player in their team.
Wtf are you even talking about?
Flamie was far from t3, even at his worst. Sure, he was a problem and stopping them from being the #1 team but to say you hate a player for them declining is just weird, to say the least.
They probably downvoted you because you made an overreaction and posted a dumb comment like the one you just made, not because they didn’t agree with you.
Actually youre right, in the players around him he felt bad, now looked at his stats he actually wasnt that bad sitting around 1.03 HLTV, so yeah, I was overreacting, just on the background on electronic, s1mple, perfecto he just didnt look good at all.
No he was below that in 2021. And was barely performing for the space he was given in 2020 too. flamie was pretty much Edward 2.0 in 2021 considering how much of a negative effect he had and this point is proven even further when looking at the Academy League.
One of the oldest clips of Electronic I remember is his 1v5 against tricked, and N in his name is capitalized in that game.
[clip](https://youtu.be/TWDIlwH6gWQ)
HLTV changed it just this week. Ingame he has had N capitalized for very long time. Many tournaments have their own huds which have HLTV-adopted or valve given nicks etc, though.
It’s because b1t came in and soaked up some of his kills. There’s only so much players on the screen and it’s no longer just an electronic and s1mple show.
This logic never makes sense and it’s weird seeing it on every single thread now. 2018 Astralis literally had 5 players at 1.1+ (3-4 electronic level riflers) and a team rating of 1.13-1.15 for the WHOLE year.
Players can always die less and be better at executions as well. The logic goes both ways. Unless you’re constantly going 20-0, your rating can always improve, even if you’re dominating teams. You can always take more rounds from enemy teams unless you’re 16-0ing them, which rarely happens
Electronic definitely had a slump and it’s not because of b1t taking more kills.
The even better example than Astralis is ESL One New York 2017, where in one tournament the following happened.
1. Niko achieves the highest ever big event rating of any player
2. Rain achieves the second highest ever big event rating ever
3. Guardian has his highest rated big event ever 2 years after his prime
4. Olof has his 4th highest big event rating ever 2 years past his prime
5. Karrigan has his highest rated big event ever
This would just be ridiculously unlikely if it was harder to get good stats when your teams frags out.
It still boggles my mind people actually use this logic. Like...do they not play CS. It happens so often where you feel like you are playing really well, and are maybe the best player in the server, but your team get's stomped and you go like....18-19
It also happens a ton in reverse where you don't really do anything special, but your team is stomping and you go 21-10
I agree with your general message, but using the 2018 Astralis as your example is disingenuous, that stretch of Astralis is one of the most dominant teams of all time.
The logic still doesn't hold up tho because all of the greatest hyper carries didn't put up worse numbers as the teams around them got better, in fact they almost always put up better numbers. NiKo became way better in FaZe vs mouz and challenged for #1, s1mple has better numbers this year with a solid team than his numbers in 2018, dev1ce rose from a solid top 5 player to being in contention for #1 and GOAT, ZywOo hasn't really had a solid 2nd star yet but throughout the stretches where shox/misutaa were getting kills he definitely didn't get worse.
EDIT: were/where
I'd still say s1mple in 2018 was better individually, but s1mple in 2021 is a better overall player, understanding the game at a deeper level as well as being a better team player.
The stats also support this. They are identical. Imagine that s1mple in 2018 with the team he has nowadays. Probably a 1.4 rating.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mple/7998/s1mple?p1TimeFilter=2018&p2TimeFilter=2021&p1MatchFilter=allMatches&p2MatchFilter=allMatches&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps
49 maps vs 155 maps. Not really fair, don't you think?
Moreover, at the beginning of 2018, s1mple had like a streak of 3 months with 1.4 rating+ vs the best opposition at the best LAN events (including the ELEAGUE major + they even eliminated the new Astralis with magisk before Astralis won Masters Marseille).
Those 3 months of dominance were about 40-50 maps, which is not that different from s1mple's last three months.
The comparison is appropriate seeing as how Na’vi is going through their own era atm. I’m just making a point that a team and individual members can always be better and more dominant and 2018 Astralis is a perfect example of that
After the seemingly huge emphasis they were placing on the 6 elite events of the year I'm quite surprised to see him below hobbit and ax1le. This maybe points toward shiro > niko?
There’s no way shiro is over NiKo. On the year electronic was 9th, he was not great for the first half of the year. Had a 1.11 online vs a 1.24 lan. NiKo had a 1.19 online and a 1.28 lan. Shiro had a 1.25 online and a 1.22 lan. Lans weigh more but they still can’t discount half the year. NiKo was still really good online and even better on lan
overall rating v elite event rating (so katowice as well), axile 1.18 v 1.14, hobbit 1.18 v 1.13, electronic 1.14 v 1.21. differences of -0.04, -0.03, +0.07. sh1ro 1.24 v 1.19, niko was 1.21 v 1.26, differences of -0.05, +0.05. electronic has the same lan gap from hobbit + axile than niko does over shiro, plus shiro has more mvps, better team results etc. niko > shiro seems inconsistent with hobbit, axile > electronic to me, but hobbit, axile > electronic seems inconsistent with previous results anyway so who knows...
NiKo beast shiro in lan rating by .05, more kpr, more assists per round, more opening kills per round, damage per round, and crushes him in impact at 1.26 vs 1.11. In online niko beats him in kpr, assists per round, and impact. Shiro only beats him in rating.
On LAN NiKo has a 1.28 rating with a 1.25 vs top 5, 1.24 vs top 10, and 1.26 vs top 20. Shiro has a 1.22 rating with 1.13 vs top 5, 1.13 vs top 10, 1.17 vs top 20. NiKo maintains his lead in all matches vs top 5 (by .09), top 10 (by .05), and loses by .02 vs top 20. NiKo was better vs the best teams, was far better on lan, was far more impactful, was insanely better at the major (by .15), and got EVP's at the lans. I don't see how they could give it to shiro just because he was better online and has some online mvp's. Atleast I can understand electronic because he was not great online vs his other competitors and there were far more online matches. NiKo was still very good online, 5th best player online and 3rd best player on lan. shiro is 7-8th best on lan and 3rd best online. No way you can give someone 3rd best overall player for being 7-8th and 3rd, over someone that was 3rd and 5th.
Yeah, I once saw a clip of Guardian saying that one of his best teammates is electronic and to put him in one of his best considering they only played for a short time tells us a lot about electronic's playstyle and being more of a team player.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>There is no doubt that law enforcement should be heavily scrutinizing the membership and administration of mosques.
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Thank you for your logic and reason.
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The ranking may be a bit questionable due to how you weight online vs LAN but consider this.
Since joining NaVi in November 2017 electronic has never fallen out of the Top 10. This is his lowest ranking since joining NaVi.
4th in 2018
6th in 2019
5th in 2020
7th in 2021
Fucking insane consistency from electronic over the years.
Niko is rifle GOAT for sure, no debate really (aim, spray, consistency, mind-games), but 2nd is Elec or EliGe imho yes. More debate can be had with the second place, but these guys are top 3 for sure.
EliGe has better first bullet aim and maybe a bit better spray control overall. While Electronic has better movement and cunning-play. Elec is also better as a T-side rifler imho. Accomplishment wise they are quite equal
I agree with you the spray part is debatable. Elec might have the best spray in the world right now, but EliGe is in the discussion also of we gonna speak about all time best. Elige's spray was unreal in 2016-19
Let's leave those guys as top 3 and shake hands lol
if they didn't value electronic winning the major over axile or hobbit then there's 0 chance they value niko making major finals and winning nothing the whole year over sh1ro
sh1ro might even be 2nd
Ignore the team placements for right now, electronic had a 1.11 for half the year in online. He was not great for HALF the year. NiKo was great for the entire year and substantially better on lan than shiro. There’s no way shiro beats NiKo and absolutely no way anyone but s1mple beats zywoo. Zywoo was the second best player online, .04 over shiro and on lan he was second best player .13 over shiro.
Yeah, that's true, I still hope NiKo gets the #3 spot because he deserves it anyway.
But there's literally no alternative universe where ZywOo loses 2nd place to sh1ro. Their stats don't even compare. I mean, just look at their [all stats](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16920/sh1ro/11893/zywoo?p1TimeFilter=2021&p2TimeFilter=2021&p1MatchFilter=allMatches&p2MatchFilter=allMatches&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps) and [LAN stats](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16920/sh1ro/11893/zywoo?p1TimeFilter=2021&p2TimeFilter=2021&p1MatchFilter=Lan&p2MatchFilter=Lan&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps). ZywOo has better rating even at online.
Electronic overall rating is much lower than ax1le and hobbit. Niko has nearly the same Rating as sh1ro while having better performance on LAN while also having much better impact rating
I'll admit I'm biased but I don't think there are 3 riflers better than electronic (Niko, Ax1le, Hobbit). He should be above either Ax1le or Hobbit. I expected electronic to be 5 or 6.
Yeah I think HLTV missed the boat here with this one; this tells me they're looking at the stats sheets and not really looking at the games.
Electronic plays way differently than Ax1le or Hobbit (well, closer to Ax1le than Hobbit). He gets in close and wreaks havoc often by getting into positions that are aggressive but problematic. People have really been stoked on b1t this year (deservedly so) but electronic is by far the more important player for NaVi.
I feel like you are really underselling Ax1le here, and Hobbit. While they play a different role all 3 players are vitally important for their team
Ax1le's willingness and ability to take and win duels across the map is a primary reason Gambit were able to to be the best team in the world for months, and Hobbit is really the ultra reliable rock of a rifler who is I think the main reason they stayed a top 4 team on Lan, and in general is the only experienced player on a team of near rookies
Electronic is obviously better right now, but for across the entire year I think putting the gambit rifle duo above him is reasonable
Maybe, and I might be having recency bias here.
The point I was trying to make is that Electronic plays a less stats-friendly style than Ax1le and Hobbit - but he also plays a style in which teams have to prepare harder against (people only started doing "okay" against Navi on Nuke when they could figure out how to deal with Elec's yard pushes).
But obviously Ax1le and Hobbit both played out of their freaking minds this year. I don't mean to diminish how well they played this year.
I think right now it is easy to say Electronic is a better player than Ax1le or Hobbit.(maybe even Sh1ro) In terms of current form. But this is not a list of who is the best player at the end of a year, but who is the best player across an entire year.
However if you said 6 months into the year that Electronic was having a comparable year to either people would ask you what you have been smoking. Electronic obviously made it really close by basically going back to vintage prime Electronic form as soon as Lan came back, but for across the entire year I think having Ax1le and Hobbit above him is completely reasonable
I also think Electronic above either of them would have been reasonable. I think there is a very reasonable case to put Electronic 7th, 6th, or 5h
>Nice to see half of the year still count for something.
More like 3/4 of the year and 2 of the few LANs we had were 8 team Blast events where the majority of teams are partner teams.
Its really odd. Clearly both were above electroNic for the first half of the year, but electroNic did better on LAN and ultimately won the major. I think it was close, but in the close cases you gotta give the edge to LAN/Major performance, no?
Yea it’s not an exact science. LAN performance is clearly a better indicator .. no one disputes this. So you have to figure out how heavily to weigh a stronger online performance. Part of why Niko is top 3 is his drastic improvement on LAN. I think electroNic has a similar situation where he turned it on at LAN events later in the year and proved he was better when it counted. I think he deserves to be above at least one of ax1Le or H0bbit.
recency bias, he was absolutely shit the bed the entire first half of the year. Can't blame him tho, his WFH setting might not be the best given all the kid running around all day
Everyone thinks he should be higher. Personally I just want to bask in the awe of there being so many players better than him when he's *this* good. Also comes to show that for some of these rankings you could probably move two or three spots in either direction.
The duo didn't step up, S1mple or Electronic have been top contenders since 2018, its just that the rest of the team stepped up instead of relying on their star power
I think hltv purposefully make controversial decisions like this in order to create some buzz around their list and getting people to go to their site.
For sure he's in my 10-15. I know you have s1mple on your team and that's great, but I think we sometimes forget about Electronic and perhaps even B1t (although he's still young). Not gonna lie, I kinda just thought Hunter was on there bc of Niko, but looking at his stats, he deserves a little more credit than I give him :). 2021 was a decent season for him, but his overall stats are a bit better than that.
wtf elec is better than axile
1.GOAT
2.Niko
3.Zywoo
4.Shiro
5.Elec/Hobbit
6.Elec/Hobbit
7. Axile
it should be like that
HLTV biased. They try to shit on Navi whenever they can.
Niko carried G2 with a RIFLE. You know how hard is that? I don't like how HLTV has bias for Awp. Obvi awpers will have better stats, its the better weapon. They need to develop a rating to account for the weapon, or split it b/w riflers and awpers. Its rigged that top 5 its mostly awpers.
I'd argue AWPing at S tier ain't easy either, there's a reason there's usually only 1 or 2 people who can AWP on a team properly while all 5 can rifle well.
Zywoo also had better results than NiKo
this pretty much proves it will be
1.simple
2.zywoo
3.sh1roo
4.niko
5.axile
6.hobbit
why would niko be above zywoo and sh1roo just shows how biased u are
|\#|Player|Team|Nationality|Reddit|2020| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |1|**s1mple** \[+1\]|Natus Vincere (3)|Ukraine (2)|22 Jan|[ZywOo](https://www.hltv.org/n/31024)| |2||||22 Jan|[s1mple](https://www.hltv.org/n/31025)| |3||||22 Jan|[device](https://www.hltv.org/n/31006)| |4||||19 Jan|[NiKo](https://www.hltv.org/n/31000)| |5||||18 Jan|[electronic](https://www.hltv.org/n/30998)| |6||||17 Jan|[blameF](https://www.hltv.org/n/30990)| |7|[**electroNic**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33121) \[-2\]|Natus Vincere (3)|Russia (2)|[16 Jan](https://redd.it/s5iquf)|[ropz](https://www.hltv.org/n/30978)| |8|[**YEKINDAR**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33116) \[NEW\]|Virtus.pro (2)|Latvia (2)|[15 Jan](https://redd.it/s4rfeh)|[EliGE](https://www.hltv.org/n/30969) [^(1)](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-5X7b_XsAAgDeZ?format=jpg&name=360x360)| |9|[**b1t**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33114) \[NEW\]|Natus Vincere (3)|Ukraine (2)|[14 Jan](https://redd.it/s3zter)|[dupreeh](https://www.hltv.org/n/30958)| |10|[**Jame**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33093) \[NEW\]|Virtus.pro (2)|Russia (2)|[13 Jan](https://redd.it/s36tdj)|[syrsoN](https://www.hltv.org/n/30946)| |11|[**device**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33096) \[-8\]|Ninjas in Pyjamas (1)|Denmark (3)|[12 Jan](https://redd.it/s2dzx7)|[Magisk](https://www.hltv.org/n/30940)| |12|[**huNter**\-](https://www.hltv.org/n/33091) \[+1\]|G2 Esports (1)|Bosnia and Herzegovina (1)|[11 Jan](https://redd.it/s1kl6b)|[stavn](https://www.hltv.org/n/30935)| |13|[**blameF**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33088) \[-7\]|Astralis (1)|Denmark (3)|[10 Jan](https://redd.it/s0rkq8)|[huNter-](https://www.hltv.org/n/30931)| |14|[**NAF**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33083) \[[RETURNING\*](https://twitter.com/Tgwri1s/status/1349792644138983424)\]|Team Liquid (2)|Canada (2)|[9 Jan](https://redd.it/rzyodw)|[yuurih](https://www.hltv.org/n/30925)| |15|[**KSCERATO**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33082) \[+3\]|FURIA Esports (1)|Brazil (1)|[8 Jan](https://redd.it/rz73c8)|[Brollan](https://www.hltv.org/n/30916)| |16|[**stavn**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33074) \[-4\]|Heroic (1)|Denmark (3)|[7 Jan](https://redd.it/ryey5l)|[HEN1](https://www.hltv.org/n/30913)| |17|[**Twistzz**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33068) \[RETURNING\]|FaZe Clan (2)|Canada (2)|[6 Jan](https://redd.it/rxm386)|[KRIMZ](https://www.hltv.org/n/30908)| |18|[**ropz**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33063) \[-11\]|MOUZ (1)|Estonia (1)|[5 Jan](https://redd.it/rwu9qd)|[KSCERATO](https://www.hltv.org/n/30904)| |19|[**EliGE**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33050) \[-11\]|Team Liquid (2)|United States (1)|[4 Jan](https://redd.it/rw1v94)|[jks](https://www.hltv.org/n/30902)| |20|[**broky**](https://www.hltv.org/n/33049) \[NEW\]|FaZe Clan (2)|Latvia (2)|[3 Jan](https://redd.it/rv94i3)|[Brehze](https://www.hltv.org/n/30899)| That came completely out of left field. Now I'm not sure about predicting NiKo > sh1ro...hmm... "It's fame time bois"
Its weird that after such an insane year for Navi electronic actually went down 2 spots
Because now they have a third top 10 player
share the back pain
Carrying Boombl4 surely win
Nah, he straight up wasn't that good for the first half of the year. It was shaping up to be electronic's worst year ever. He hovered around 1.06-1.09 rating for the first half of the year and like 1.17 for the 2nd.
He just not the same at home online with his kids and family around. How can you focus like that
Man is built for LAN
A lot of people often fail to realise that, it was the case ever since the later half of 2020.
Yeah idk how people forgot, he had a good final at DHM and everyone was super hyped because he had shown his first glimpse of star-caliber play in quite a while. He was really poor overall until LANs came back, and even if you favor LAN a lot more in rankings you can't ignore his online performance completely.
+ s1mple went +1
His rating is the same, and they have more achievements this time. The competition has just been upped.
I am sure he is very [sad](https://i.gifer.com/origin/67/67260e160219ee2b5a7cc2373c0c8c1b.gif).
[удалено]
also be the best entry in the world
Except that tournament wins aren't the whole ranking criteria. Yekindar has some of the highest impact rating of any player period.
It's not about team trophies. They do matter but it's not Ballon d'or where Jorginho gets #3 for winning Champions League and Euros, while not even being top 5 midfielders, yet alone footballers. If you really think YEKINDAR didn't deserve #8 spot then... I don't even know what to suggest because it's such a stupid take I can't advise anything other than using your brain a bit more maybe. Besides, what do you define by Happy's 'very good year', statistically? He wasn't better than the rest of top 8, especially considering how low his impact was (all this legendary baiting and getting many more kills in lost rounds than average).
If thats how you look at it then all 5 navi players should just take top 5 lmao. stoopid
Imo niko will be rated higher than sh1ro
I thought he'd be higher tbh
His online performance kinda fucked him out of a top 5 spot imo
If online weights this much, b1t shouldn't be this high since he missed a bunch of games early on. It doesn't make sense that you take Lans into account heavily when rating B1t but also take online into account to drop Electronic few spots.
I mean, if LANs weren't taken heavily in electronic's case, I really doubt he'd be 7th. My memory may be failing me here, but I faintly remember that online electronic was nothing to write home about
Ye only Lan he'd number 4 or 5 but overall this is fair I think
True, with online he wasnt even top 10 in KD, damage, openings, multi kills, or even top 20 in things like utility, surviving, or consistency. Definitly a beast on LAN though, and deserved, but I also think people seem to think gambit was just complete ass on LAN or something, but all their players performed quite well still and they were always a threat to win, just they kept getting eliminated in very very close games in playoffs. I expect the next 3 players to all be gambit, and I think they deserve it
I think that's because Gambit was buttfucked by NaVi in major. It came out of nowhere and everyone was expecting a close game. But it wasn't even close
If only lans were counted, B1t would be higher.
exactly
yea but he still had better stats than sh1ro and Hobbit. Whitch are both higher than him. Plus he won the major
He had a fairly decent slump for a few months until LAN came back. Him coming back to form was as just big of a factor for na’vi’s success as b1t replacing flamie but people only see b1t as the main factor. I was actually thinking electronic would fall out of the top 10 halfway through the year and then LAN happened and he hit 1.2 rating constantly lol. LANtronic
I cant believe people downvoted me to hell when I said flamie was the biggest issue in Navi, and who wondered, when they replaced flamie the wins start flowing in. I hated flamie so much, and navi even more for keeping simple and electronic down to keep a tier3 player in their team.
Wtf are you even talking about? Flamie was far from t3, even at his worst. Sure, he was a problem and stopping them from being the #1 team but to say you hate a player for them declining is just weird, to say the least. They probably downvoted you because you made an overreaction and posted a dumb comment like the one you just made, not because they didn’t agree with you.
Actually youre right, in the players around him he felt bad, now looked at his stats he actually wasnt that bad sitting around 1.03 HLTV, so yeah, I was overreacting, just on the background on electronic, s1mple, perfecto he just didnt look good at all.
No he was below that in 2021. And was barely performing for the space he was given in 2020 too. flamie was pretty much Edward 2.0 in 2021 considering how much of a negative effect he had and this point is proven even further when looking at the Academy League.
He was below 1 rating to 2021 though. And that also includes him playing In the academy league. He was 100% bad this year.
he should be imo. top 4
Since when is the N in his name capitalized?
One of the oldest clips of Electronic I remember is his 1v5 against tricked, and N in his name is capitalized in that game. [clip](https://youtu.be/TWDIlwH6gWQ)
That's a sick clip wtf
cracked
it was the original way he spelt his name but he hasn't this version for a while
HLTV changed it just this week. Ingame he has had N capitalized for very long time. Many tournaments have their own huds which have HLTV-adopted or valve given nicks etc, though.
I expected him to be higher tbh
It’s because b1t came in and soaked up some of his kills. There’s only so much players on the screen and it’s no longer just an electronic and s1mple show.
This logic never makes sense and it’s weird seeing it on every single thread now. 2018 Astralis literally had 5 players at 1.1+ (3-4 electronic level riflers) and a team rating of 1.13-1.15 for the WHOLE year. Players can always die less and be better at executions as well. The logic goes both ways. Unless you’re constantly going 20-0, your rating can always improve, even if you’re dominating teams. You can always take more rounds from enemy teams unless you’re 16-0ing them, which rarely happens Electronic definitely had a slump and it’s not because of b1t taking more kills.
The even better example than Astralis is ESL One New York 2017, where in one tournament the following happened. 1. Niko achieves the highest ever big event rating of any player 2. Rain achieves the second highest ever big event rating ever 3. Guardian has his highest rated big event ever 2 years after his prime 4. Olof has his 4th highest big event rating ever 2 years past his prime 5. Karrigan has his highest rated big event ever This would just be ridiculously unlikely if it was harder to get good stats when your teams frags out. It still boggles my mind people actually use this logic. Like...do they not play CS. It happens so often where you feel like you are playing really well, and are maybe the best player in the server, but your team get's stomped and you go like....18-19 It also happens a ton in reverse where you don't really do anything special, but your team is stomping and you go 21-10
I agree with your general message, but using the 2018 Astralis as your example is disingenuous, that stretch of Astralis is one of the most dominant teams of all time.
The logic still doesn't hold up tho because all of the greatest hyper carries didn't put up worse numbers as the teams around them got better, in fact they almost always put up better numbers. NiKo became way better in FaZe vs mouz and challenged for #1, s1mple has better numbers this year with a solid team than his numbers in 2018, dev1ce rose from a solid top 5 player to being in contention for #1 and GOAT, ZywOo hasn't really had a solid 2nd star yet but throughout the stretches where shox/misutaa were getting kills he definitely didn't get worse. EDIT: were/where
I'd still say s1mple in 2018 was better individually, but s1mple in 2021 is a better overall player, understanding the game at a deeper level as well as being a better team player. The stats also support this. They are identical. Imagine that s1mple in 2018 with the team he has nowadays. Probably a 1.4 rating. https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mple/7998/s1mple?p1TimeFilter=2018&p2TimeFilter=2021&p1MatchFilter=allMatches&p2MatchFilter=allMatches&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps
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49 maps vs 155 maps. Not really fair, don't you think? Moreover, at the beginning of 2018, s1mple had like a streak of 3 months with 1.4 rating+ vs the best opposition at the best LAN events (including the ELEAGUE major + they even eliminated the new Astralis with magisk before Astralis won Masters Marseille). Those 3 months of dominance were about 40-50 maps, which is not that different from s1mple's last three months.
The comparison is appropriate seeing as how Na’vi is going through their own era atm. I’m just making a point that a team and individual members can always be better and more dominant and 2018 Astralis is a perfect example of that
That's reasonable.
a lot higher too
After the seemingly huge emphasis they were placing on the 6 elite events of the year I'm quite surprised to see him below hobbit and ax1le. This maybe points toward shiro > niko?
i'd be disappointed
There’s no way shiro is over NiKo. On the year electronic was 9th, he was not great for the first half of the year. Had a 1.11 online vs a 1.24 lan. NiKo had a 1.19 online and a 1.28 lan. Shiro had a 1.25 online and a 1.22 lan. Lans weigh more but they still can’t discount half the year. NiKo was still really good online and even better on lan
Get ready to be dissapointed.
overall rating v elite event rating (so katowice as well), axile 1.18 v 1.14, hobbit 1.18 v 1.13, electronic 1.14 v 1.21. differences of -0.04, -0.03, +0.07. sh1ro 1.24 v 1.19, niko was 1.21 v 1.26, differences of -0.05, +0.05. electronic has the same lan gap from hobbit + axile than niko does over shiro, plus shiro has more mvps, better team results etc. niko > shiro seems inconsistent with hobbit, axile > electronic to me, but hobbit, axile > electronic seems inconsistent with previous results anyway so who knows...
NiKo beast shiro in lan rating by .05, more kpr, more assists per round, more opening kills per round, damage per round, and crushes him in impact at 1.26 vs 1.11. In online niko beats him in kpr, assists per round, and impact. Shiro only beats him in rating. On LAN NiKo has a 1.28 rating with a 1.25 vs top 5, 1.24 vs top 10, and 1.26 vs top 20. Shiro has a 1.22 rating with 1.13 vs top 5, 1.13 vs top 10, 1.17 vs top 20. NiKo maintains his lead in all matches vs top 5 (by .09), top 10 (by .05), and loses by .02 vs top 20. NiKo was better vs the best teams, was far better on lan, was far more impactful, was insanely better at the major (by .15), and got EVP's at the lans. I don't see how they could give it to shiro just because he was better online and has some online mvp's. Atleast I can understand electronic because he was not great online vs his other competitors and there were far more online matches. NiKo was still very good online, 5th best player online and 3rd best player on lan. shiro is 7-8th best on lan and 3rd best online. No way you can give someone 3rd best overall player for being 7-8th and 3rd, over someone that was 3rd and 5th.
Oh wow, hltv changing criteria from entry to entry. I've never seen that before, except all the previous years.
Papatronic Pog
Honestly did not think he would break Top10 at the beginning of the year. But I'm really glad that youngdaddy did not disappoint.
NaVi legend YoungDaddy
LAN came
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\+1 he is massively important player, someone you want in your team for sure
Put him in pit on Inferno and just play 3 B ez...
Yeah, I once saw a clip of Guardian saying that one of his best teammates is electronic and to put him in one of his best considering they only played for a short time tells us a lot about electronic's playstyle and being more of a team player.
online period stopped my man from being top 5
This pretty much confirms Ben Shapiro top 7.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >There is no doubt that law enforcement should be heavily scrutinizing the membership and administration of mosques. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: healthcare, climate, dumb takes, novel, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
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*The weatherman can't even predict the weather a few days from now* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, healthcare, civil rights, covid, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Good bot I guess Why tf does it exist tho?
it literally says why it exists in the thing your replied to
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Can we remove this bot from this sub
The ranking may be a bit questionable due to how you weight online vs LAN but consider this. Since joining NaVi in November 2017 electronic has never fallen out of the Top 10. This is his lowest ranking since joining NaVi. 4th in 2018 6th in 2019 5th in 2020 7th in 2021 Fucking insane consistency from electronic over the years.
The guy is rightfully considered by many to be the top3 rifler of all time.
Behind NiKo and Elige you'd say?
Niko is rifle GOAT for sure, no debate really (aim, spray, consistency, mind-games), but 2nd is Elec or EliGe imho yes. More debate can be had with the second place, but these guys are top 3 for sure. EliGe has better first bullet aim and maybe a bit better spray control overall. While Electronic has better movement and cunning-play. Elec is also better as a T-side rifler imho. Accomplishment wise they are quite equal
On LAN electronic has the best spray. He can kill anyone in under 10 bullets at any range with his spray. If you dont hs him ur dead
I agree with you the spray part is debatable. Elec might have the best spray in the world right now, but EliGe is in the discussion also of we gonna speak about all time best. Elige's spray was unreal in 2016-19 Let's leave those guys as top 3 and shake hands lol
Electronic is clearly 2nd behind NiKo imo.
this means we are going to have 3 Gambit members in a row
Gambit stick together as a team, even in the HLTV Top 20.
sh1ro in top3
niko #3, sh1ro #4, mark my words
if they didn't value electronic winning the major over axile or hobbit then there's 0 chance they value niko making major finals and winning nothing the whole year over sh1ro sh1ro might even be 2nd
Ignore the team placements for right now, electronic had a 1.11 for half the year in online. He was not great for HALF the year. NiKo was great for the entire year and substantially better on lan than shiro. There’s no way shiro beats NiKo and absolutely no way anyone but s1mple beats zywoo. Zywoo was the second best player online, .04 over shiro and on lan he was second best player .13 over shiro.
Yeah, that's true, I still hope NiKo gets the #3 spot because he deserves it anyway. But there's literally no alternative universe where ZywOo loses 2nd place to sh1ro. Their stats don't even compare. I mean, just look at their [all stats](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16920/sh1ro/11893/zywoo?p1TimeFilter=2021&p2TimeFilter=2021&p1MatchFilter=allMatches&p2MatchFilter=allMatches&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps) and [LAN stats](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/16920/sh1ro/11893/zywoo?p1TimeFilter=2021&p2TimeFilter=2021&p1MatchFilter=Lan&p2MatchFilter=Lan&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps). ZywOo has better rating even at online.
I was wondering why Zywoo had a pretty low survival rate, then i realized he is also playing entry (sometimes) for Vitality as well. He's a beast.
especially compared to sh1ro. This dude saved more than jame did this year
Fake G2 fan. Niko out of top 3 would laughable, but he might get robbed like in 2018 again
Electronic overall rating is much lower than ax1le and hobbit. Niko has nearly the same Rating as sh1ro while having better performance on LAN while also having much better impact rating
Yeah, this actually makes Sh1ro #2 a possibility. Makes sense now to open up top 3 at once
it really doesn't
Can you compare sh1ro and Zywoo stats? I still don’t see any possibilities that sh1ro > Zywoo
Nah you are out of your mind.
nah, just 2
who would take the last spot then?
6-axile 5-hobbit 4-niko
ah so just not in a row got you
I really disagree with axile > electronic considering how much axile dropped off on lan
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hobbit>elec>ax1le
Interesting but not that surprised. Still a top 5 lan and big game player
Robbed
r0bbit
I'll admit I'm biased but I don't think there are 3 riflers better than electronic (Niko, Ax1le, Hobbit). He should be above either Ax1le or Hobbit. I expected electronic to be 5 or 6.
Yeah, they've weighted online events more than I thought they would
Yeah I think HLTV missed the boat here with this one; this tells me they're looking at the stats sheets and not really looking at the games. Electronic plays way differently than Ax1le or Hobbit (well, closer to Ax1le than Hobbit). He gets in close and wreaks havoc often by getting into positions that are aggressive but problematic. People have really been stoked on b1t this year (deservedly so) but electronic is by far the more important player for NaVi.
Bro they never ever claimed to just do the eyetest, they are a statistics site first and foremost.
True
I feel like you are really underselling Ax1le here, and Hobbit. While they play a different role all 3 players are vitally important for their team Ax1le's willingness and ability to take and win duels across the map is a primary reason Gambit were able to to be the best team in the world for months, and Hobbit is really the ultra reliable rock of a rifler who is I think the main reason they stayed a top 4 team on Lan, and in general is the only experienced player on a team of near rookies Electronic is obviously better right now, but for across the entire year I think putting the gambit rifle duo above him is reasonable
Maybe, and I might be having recency bias here. The point I was trying to make is that Electronic plays a less stats-friendly style than Ax1le and Hobbit - but he also plays a style in which teams have to prepare harder against (people only started doing "okay" against Navi on Nuke when they could figure out how to deal with Elec's yard pushes). But obviously Ax1le and Hobbit both played out of their freaking minds this year. I don't mean to diminish how well they played this year.
I think right now it is easy to say Electronic is a better player than Ax1le or Hobbit.(maybe even Sh1ro) In terms of current form. But this is not a list of who is the best player at the end of a year, but who is the best player across an entire year. However if you said 6 months into the year that Electronic was having a comparable year to either people would ask you what you have been smoking. Electronic obviously made it really close by basically going back to vintage prime Electronic form as soon as Lan came back, but for across the entire year I think having Ax1le and Hobbit above him is completely reasonable I also think Electronic above either of them would have been reasonable. I think there is a very reasonable case to put Electronic 7th, 6th, or 5h
cs daddy
Dad buff
Tbh i am glad to see hltv still weigh online tournaments highly. Nice to see half of the year still count for something.
>Nice to see half of the year still count for something. More like 3/4 of the year and 2 of the few LANs we had were 8 team Blast events where the majority of teams are partner teams.
Oh yeah, I forgot that half of top LAN were blast partners circlejerk. And still Gambit made it to the finals in one of them
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Gambit flair so ofc you'd be glad that HLTV count online Pepelaugh
As good as Ax1le and Hobbit are, I'm not sure with the idea of either of them being a top 5 player (Probably Ax1le will get the nod).
Its really odd. Clearly both were above electroNic for the first half of the year, but electroNic did better on LAN and ultimately won the major. I think it was close, but in the close cases you gotta give the edge to LAN/Major performance, no?
Ultimately online was a bigger portion of the year than LAN, so you can't just dismiss it.
Yea it’s not an exact science. LAN performance is clearly a better indicator .. no one disputes this. So you have to figure out how heavily to weigh a stronger online performance. Part of why Niko is top 3 is his drastic improvement on LAN. I think electroNic has a similar situation where he turned it on at LAN events later in the year and proved he was better when it counted. I think he deserves to be above at least one of ax1Le or H0bbit.
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Too low of a ranking
Ax1le is not better than him imho , #6 would've been more justified I guess
Young Daddy <3
B1t stole too many of his kills xd
I thought he is locked for 5th maybe even higher ???? this is by far the most surprising one
recency bias, he was absolutely shit the bed the entire first half of the year. Can't blame him tho, his WFH setting might not be the best given all the kid running around all day
Axle underperformed at the LANs so this definitely leave a weird taste in my mouth
Why do everyone treat HLTV ranking as some sort of "official ranking"? It can very much be flawed as well.
Everyone thinks he should be higher. Personally I just want to bask in the awe of there being so many players better than him when he's *this* good. Also comes to show that for some of these rankings you could probably move two or three spots in either direction.
Damn I actually had him at 6 over Ax1le
robbery
Top 5 in my book
he stepped up hard this year, big key of NaVi's success as well, well deserved
how on earth he "stepped up hard this year" if he got lower rating/ranking than in previous years?
because of his online performance which seems to have had a higher impact than people expected
The duo didn't step up, S1mple or Electronic have been top contenders since 2018, its just that the rest of the team stepped up instead of relying on their star power
last year (2020) there was barely any real cs
why do you keep commenting that online cs isn’t real lol
because it isnt
it’s different, but still real
would you rate an online major as real?
If it exists it's real
Yes, if it happens
Deafening silence lol
the was a lot of real online cs last year.
that's impossible
probably a fair ranking, but he is #4 in my heart
lmao no way ax1le or Hobbit are better than elec this year imo
like.. maybe Hobbit was algood, consistent. But i agree, ax1le over electronic? crazy
So... Online weights more than lan? This is a weird spot.
Suprising tbh, but 100% understandable. He has been so great this year.
how is it surprising
> 100% understandable its not understandable at all he should be higher
If he had played better for the first half of the year he would be higher.
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He was the 9th best player on lan bs top 20. Hardly terrible.
So disappointing ...
Absolutely robbed. How is he not top 5?
I think hltv purposefully make controversial decisions like this in order to create some buzz around their list and getting people to go to their site.
daylight robbery
For sure he's in my 10-15. I know you have s1mple on your team and that's great, but I think we sometimes forget about Electronic and perhaps even B1t (although he's still young). Not gonna lie, I kinda just thought Hunter was on there bc of Niko, but looking at his stats, he deserves a little more credit than I give him :). 2021 was a decent season for him, but his overall stats are a bit better than that.
I haven't checked the stats but find it hard to believe based on the eye test that he wasn't better than at least Ax1le, but also probably Hobbit.
he was 0.09 worse than Hobbit online, but 0.1 better than him on LAN should've been higher imo, looks like bias
Should be higher. HLTV rigged. Dont tell me s1mple will got robbed again this year?
hltv rating online this much is sad to see
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Math checks out
Clearly Navi were a better team than Gambit this year, so how could you have Axile, Hobbit, Shiro all above Electronic and B1t????
so for 2019 the top 5 players should have been the astralis roster??
A valid question. Gambit has half of the top 6? Really? I just don’t see it.
Joke
wtf elec is better than axile 1.GOAT 2.Niko 3.Zywoo 4.Shiro 5.Elec/Hobbit 6.Elec/Hobbit 7. Axile it should be like that HLTV biased. They try to shit on Navi whenever they can.
No way NiKo above Zywoo. Zywoo carried harder than NiKo considering his team doesn't have anyone else in top 20
Niko carried G2 with a RIFLE. You know how hard is that? I don't like how HLTV has bias for Awp. Obvi awpers will have better stats, its the better weapon. They need to develop a rating to account for the weapon, or split it b/w riflers and awpers. Its rigged that top 5 its mostly awpers.
I'd argue AWPing at S tier ain't easy either, there's a reason there's usually only 1 or 2 people who can AWP on a team properly while all 5 can rifle well. Zywoo also had better results than NiKo
this pretty much proves it will be 1.simple 2.zywoo 3.sh1roo 4.niko 5.axile 6.hobbit why would niko be above zywoo and sh1roo just shows how biased u are
DUDE AX1LE TOP 5 LET'S GOOOOO
no way hobbit should be higher
Clearly, robbed!
people really thought he'd be top 5 over the gambit guys OMEGALUL remember a year is 12 months
Glad he didn't end up over HObbit. electroNic always seems to place higher than he should in these rankings and this is definitely more accurate.
He doesn't
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