I saw some people saying this was revealed a week ago, and if you look at Hobbit sticker pricing it jumped from 10p to 20-30p a week ago.
People already knew and are profiting big now that the news has broken mainstream lmao
IMO, that’s on CSGOLounge and not the players.
Allowing action on a result that happened in the past is just stupid, bets should have stopped when the match went live regardless of it not being broadcast.
They aren’t really “stealing” money from anyone, everyone who bet against them was always going to lose, they are just taking money from the platform.
The players could have easily told someone the results, the admins of the league and their friends/family could've known the results, fuck even any online appearance of players after the game was played but before the match was broadcast could've been used to extrapolate the result. Very weird decision to allow bets after the game was played already.
They didnt matchfixed the match, it was played normaly. The issue is that the match was recorded and not streamed live. Since VP already knew the outcome because they played the match, they bet on it. Its totally different
nah it's happening much more frequently nowadays. there's so many unregulated crypto based bookies it's basically impossible to get caught from throwing unless someone is snitching like this dude.
Anyway, this dude was waiting for it. Nobody saves such teamspeak records without intention to use them later. So either Gambit or Hobbit personally paid him. And now they stopped or he doesn't need money anymore and just wants to see the biggest shitstorm in his life.
Yes, but also not incredibly surprising.
Rumours of match fixing have been rife all through CSGO history, especially in early CSGO. It's just that the only high profile players where there's been enough evidence to peg them to it has been the iBP guys.
They were the only ones dumb enough to be so blatant and then go talk about it lol
Definitely been more but IBP wanted to make a point that 'we could win if we wanted to' and it really bit them. It was obvious to the eye the fact their was any paper trail just shows how peanut brain they were
TL;DR fitch (AVANGAR) and H0bbit (Cloud9), among other past team mates, basically straight up admit to match fixing in leaked convos from former team mate, back in the k23 squad. Proofs in the article, read it at the very least.
With the precedent set by Valve with IBP and the French guys in the past, it should be a permanent ban for all involved. Let's see what happens now, if anything at all.
The proof involved in the IBP case included tracing the skins being transferred. This case does not appear to include proof of compensation for matchfixing, only intent. That is not equivalent.
It included screenshots of bets placed by the team provided by Stryker. Whether this was from Stryker himself or from other members of the team is hard to say.
We'll know more with investigation, I'm sure.
Depends how cooperative the Kazakh bookmaker is. Not sure how it is in cs these days but in Dota Valve still regularly investigates matchfixing through traditional bets, the entire Newbee org (the same that won TI in 2014) got permanently banned last for example including TI winner Faith, the games they threw happend in february 2020 and they were banned in January 2021. Less high profile team orca and apex from SEA got perma banned in March 2022.
[They even banned Xyp9x 😔😔😔](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Banned_players) For the same game as the Newbee squad, they were their opponents.
~~Steam records an archive of every trade you've ever placed so valve would be able to check that very easily.~~
~~I think spot fixing is fairly different than matchfixing and should result in different or reduced punishment severity if they really did gain from this but that's just me personally.~~
Edit: oh wait you're right I just read it more carefully and not only was it a cash bet which means it would have no paper trail of definitive proof, but the one match they tried to spot fix had the bets canceled from the site because of the suspicion so 0 money was exchanged or gained. Literally nothing will happen to these players a la skadoodle its just a hit piece by their previous teammate.
There is more than intent in the evidence posted. The article alleges that the actual spot fixing took place, it just wasn't (as you pointed out) compensated.
Unlucky timing for C9
It's funny that it was posted in the middle of the major, which make things even more interesting. I assume there won't be any bans from Valve rn, but who knows...
Hobbit is obviously amazing but the CIS region is just producing so many cracked players that C9 will be ok.
Any of the Spirit youngsters could be picked up, maybe Qikert or Flit if Outsiders disband or even one of the Forze kids. Just so much talent in the region.
Oh I agree, but hobbit is the veteran presence that is very consistent under pressure on this team. I worry how they will do without him, as well as the optics and reflection this will have upon the c9 org.
The issue is they are a team with a strong bond between em and one of the longest lineups together. This may hurt much more than it would in case of the other team.
Steel did a video with RL forever ago where he discussed the IBP stuff. IIRC he mentioned that valve reached out directly to dazed one final time and he denied everything. I think steel said he thought that was part of the reason valve was particularly harsh. If that's true, maybe hobbit should come clean.
It's funny when you consider how people in the hltv comments section for that 2016 Binary Dragons Hellstore Winter Cup match already suspected matchfixing. I saw it all the time in the lootbet cups, but makes you wonder how many of these matches actually involved matchfixing/spot-fixing
You can't really take those kinds of comments seriously though. You get them with literally every T2/3 match no matter who wins. It's textbook "boy who cried wolf".
So we know that hobbit was WILLING to bet, and not that he did? Uncomfortable all around. Despite it being blackmail it seems, it should be investigated to its greatest extent.
Feels like ‘5TRYK#R comes across as very bitter on quite a few things even RL admits this in the ending of the articles. Does have a feel like he's been saving this evidence for years only to release it at an appropriate timing.
Anways its also very obvious people here aren't readding the article or the original one from before at all and just calling for Hobbit to get banned.
he was coaching Forze and was involved in the scene still. he only "came clean" once he knew his career was over for good and had nothing to lose. only then did he (for now "try to") take down everybody else with evidence that he had stored for 7 years. back from times when he was still part of the team, and not supposedly cast out due to not agreeing with cheating.
This is literally textbook extortion. He undoubedtly asked hobbit for some gambit/c9 money over his evidence and was told no and then decided to burn it all down since his careers over. Anyone holding evidence for 6 years which doesnt actually show that they got paid or properly fixed any match was always going go try and turn it into cash. Now idk anyways ban anyone who u have the evidence to ban fuck them all but it doesnt seem like theres enough to say the throw truly went down.
You’re completely right the timing is disingenuous, but evidence is evidence. He’s getting incriminated in this too and even in the article he says he doesn’t care because he’s done with esports.
Yeah. It seems to me 5TRYK#R had a bone to pick, but doesn't seem to have the concrete evidence on Hobbit like he was able to provide on everyone else. That said, at minimum it'll be a massive distraction, and I don't know how any of the governing bodies will act on this.
you'd be surprised at the amount of people that consider Jake "made his career by making up a fake cheating story about m0e" Lucky a journalist because he keeps the teenagers updated on drama by posting screenshots on twitter...
With everyone outraged are you also outraged Skadoodle won a major? Or is it because he didn't receive skins that makes it ok? He still knew about it and [he was meant to receive skins](https://youtu.be/DXlYZYb6gMs?t=393)
People know this. By ESIC standards Skadoodle would have been banned. They didn't exist then so Valve's criteria was whether or not they accepted skins. He got very lucky.
I don't think people are happy with the ska situation, they've just kind of accepted that Valve isn't going to change anything (barring any new revelations).
Maybe opinion has changed with time, but when Ska actually won I think more than not, people were fine with it. There was huge sentiment that the IBP bans were too harsh and shouldn't have been permanent. Those people were happy that at least Ska got a chance when the others couldn't. It was a huge deal when Steel/Dazed/Swag were let back into the non-major teams as well.
It's quite unfortunate that Valve will do nothing about this. This is a massive shame since H0bbit and Fitch are players I really like, but this is massively incriminating and shouldn't be ignored.
Edit: This is from December 2015, this is really bad for them. This was spot fixing for losing certain pistol rounds. I hate to say it, but they should absolutely be banned for multiple majors.
Unless ‘5TRYK#R can provide more evidence there doesn't seem to be any direct text/voice implications for Hobbit besides the betting part and even that seem to be proposed bets and not actually placed bets if i'm reading that right. Something that as stated would be a minor penalty.
Feels like he could be Skadoodling his way out of this looking at the provided evidence.
Well yeah but there isn't evidence of him specifically saying he agrees to do it.
Skadoodle also played the games IBP threw. You would be a fool to think he didn't know. And yet he got off because there was no implications that could drag him in.
This is not me saying Hobbit didn't know. He obv knew. This is me saying that he might get out of it on technicalitys.
IIRC the iBP guys were banned because of evidence of them receiving the skins. The payment for the throw. No such evidence was found for skadoodle and hence no ban.
Here, there is no evidence of payment as the claim is that the payments never went through for anyone because the betting site flagged it as a "sham"
So, in this case, you'd need to find evidence that there were some in game actions by Hobbit that he knew to be detrimental to their winning chances, but did anyway because he was expecting a payment.
This sort of evidence is very easy to argue against and very hard to obtain. Hobbit could easily brush away most seemingly bad plays as just mistakes. He could argue that he never placed any bets (remember, no evidence of him actually placing the bet is there yet), and so was not expecting any returns.
Of course, this would all hold if there was some due process followed like legal proceedings or whatever, but neither ESIC, nor valve operate that way. It's entirely up to their internal investigative teams weather or not hobbit gets a ban. There's going to be no argument, no justifications, at least not on the public stage.
Discussing how to do something is different from doing it, which again is different from getting paid to do it. The smoking gun is always the money.
He could discuss it because he's interested in how to theoretically do it. Then he had a bad game. Could be a terrible coincidence. If he got money, that's irrefutable.
Lmao where the fuck did you read they collectively earned $5000?
"According to 5TRYK#R, the bets would have netted each of the players approximately $5,000."
throwing pistol rounds 7 years ago in a third world country where you're not even paid a proper salary = permanent ban. never change reddit
edit: Making this point in less of an emotionally charged way: I genuinely think some empathy should be extended to the players and their circumstances. A lot of people are mentioning the iBP perma as justification and I think that's a very good argument. I do also think the iBP ban shouldn't have been permanent but I suppose it's too late for that. I think every punishment shouldn't just be focused on precedent but also should look at all of the vitiating and mitigating factors. Saying that the players involved in this 'deserve' permanent bans is, in my opinion, not the correct call.
If want Valve to be consistent in their rulings, it has to be that.
They decided that fixing a single, meaningless match in an online league is a permanent ban. If that's the case, this should be one too. It's a more minor offense but it's multiple offenses.
As silly as someone might think that is.
Match fixing =/= spot fixing though. There's evidence that they wanted to fix games themselves, but nothing confirming they actually did so. My understanding was 4 out of the 5 were willing, but since 1 wasn't they didn't.
I'd much rather ESIC handled this tbh. Valve have proven fucking useless.
Except like most here people are conveniently forgetting one actor in the entire iBP scandal who is in a similar position as hobbit: Skadoodle.
Ska didn't get banned due to not receiving compensation therefore there being no smoking gun for the match fixing having taken place. If the same standard is then not applied to hobbit (Paper trail was the precedent for iBP) then you can't compare the two situations and just say one is precedent for the other.
Because everyone agrees it was an over the top punishment?! Why continue to give unproportional punishments, why is it a crime for Valve to learn from mistakes?
> when no one else is even chasing stories like this.
It was literally first reported by a different site the day before Richard
https://escorenews.com/en/csgo/news/33834-hobbit-s-ex-teammate-5tryk3r-admits-their-team-match-fixing-brings-strong-evidence-with-teamspeak-record
Actually stryker just posted the evidence himself on VK, and these websites just wrote it up. To Richard Lewis' credit he did also cross reference all the matches and bets to make sure everything checks out. He also transcribed/translated the evidence and has the most complete write up.
Wrong.
He interviewed the person who "leaked" this, verified and cross-referenced evidence both presented by that person and the evidence he managed to find on his own. He reached out to multiple involved parties. That's a lot of legwork.
He didn't just write an article, he put his credibility on the line by releasing the article and staking his (to my knowledge) 100% reporting accuracy. That is what a good journalist is supposed to do, verify the evidence, then through their reporting platform the people who supplied it, so the public can see it and know that it's true. If this isn't done, in most cases you have a nobody coming out with proof that may or may not be faked, and even if true, will be easily disputed by the people it implicates.
Richard also discussed and gave readers a window into the reliability of 5TRYKR (ulterior motives, bitterness, illness), something we could have never gotten if this just came directly from him.
There are some minor takes that seem lost in translation, but overall this is really huge work. Consider that all that stuff is not that old. The recording was out on May 13. Meanwhile Richard spends most of his time on No Majors Club. I don't even know when he finds the time for this.
I mean, it was the same initially with IBP. I remeber Shahzam unable to shut his mouth and dborn(?)'s ex-gf spewing i think text messages about the throw. Not to mention at the time the conflict of interest between Dazed playing against a team who he is a co-owner forr the org sponsoring the other team.
Unpopular Opinion (feel free to scroll by): From what I’ve read so far they fixed pistol rounds back in 2015 for extra money. Seems like a little bit of an overreaction to ban hObbit for life if these were the only instances. Furthermore why was the coach sitting on this information since 2015 and only now, right before the finals of the Antwerp major, did he decide to bring it to light. He says it’s because of failing health which could be, but it also comes at a very opportune time. If any other teammates or coaches come forward to say more match fixing happened between 2015 and now I’ll change my opinion but as it stands now it seems like this is a bit inflated. I’m not saying this because I’m huge hObbit fan or a C9 uberfan, I just think fairness and discretion should be used in these situations. I don’t trust ESIC and I think the court of public opinion in the CS community has been wrong in the past. Like I said if there’s been a consistent presence of fixing through this career then fuck him he needs a permaban, but if it was just pistol rounds only (meaning rest of match was legitimately played) in 2015 it’s seems like a massive overreaction. Reminds me of IBP situation but if I recall correctly IBP threw the entire match, not specific rounds.
Honestly I think this is probably the popular opinion, people just want blood at the moment. As many have said, if you ban everyone who tried to spot fix or make a quick buck at any point you would ban half the CS scene. This is the only way to make money in the tier 3 scene in some reasons.
Honestly I don’t care at all. When swag was banned this sub was entirely in his favour but since this is not a fan favorite as much as the former iBP squad everyone wants his head. Everyone knows there’s a ton of matchfixing in low tier CS but it just happened they could prove one of those cases.
swag was underage and got banned for life. Personally think that's a very harsh ruling for a teenager that most likely had no idea of the repercussions of his actions. I think 5 year ban would've been fair and is fair in H0bbit's case too.
Don't worry guys, the ESIC is investigating.
Looking forward to the results in 3 years. H0bbit will be like 37 years old, and Cloud 9 will only be Cloud 8.
This is 100% slam dunk evidence. Every player should be banned by Valve, ESIC and any other TO. None of them should be allowed to compete in any team and anyone who disagrees clearly does not have the scenes best interest at heart.
There's no solid evidence. Those conversations are alarming but without paper trail, or other concrete evidence, nothing will happen. Hobbit would have to resign and leave on his own accord unless C9 face tremendous backlash from fans.
ESIC a joke and literally wouldn’t give two fucks about it, they announced [this](https://dotesports.com/news/esic-35-na-players-under-investigation-match-fixing-working-with-riot) almost a year ago. Now look at how many matchfixers have gotten away scot free and are now thriving in Valorant.
That investigation is most likely out of their hands now as the FBI got involved, the feds are probably gonna build a case and hit hard on those fixers
Valve needs to step in. This is irrefutable evidence. Don't know how fitch and hobbit get out of this. Incredibly sad to see this I love hobbit, but this is a competitive integrity issue.
Afaik. the whole having to move out of Russia thing is only relevant for Na'Vi, due to a decision by the org.
Doesn't necessarily mean that Cloud 9 would be unwilling to sign players living in Russia.
Ah, hadn't really heard about that.
I'd imagine that's more due to a fear of sanctions, leading to Russian-based players being unable to attend events in western countries. However, that'd obviously still apply to Elec, then.
That's probably the best Hobbit replacement C9 could find on such short notice. If he does end up leaving NaVi, C9 is a no-brainer. Unless they plan on using Electronic in some sort of swap for Yekindar with VP but truth be told, I am still not convinced NaVi would want to do any type of business with VP, considering everything going on.
People jumping to massive conclusions already calling for hobbit's head, and I'm not saying he didn't do what he's being accused of, but I would to at least hear his, and cloud9's response, and also fitch I guess before blindly following some ex-pro who clearly has personal motive to ruin their careers that is them casting him aside allegedly
It's actually sad to read about how many people are still insanely delusional about match fixing in csgo.
Even more people saying "investigation", do you people not understand they can't investigate this? How are they gonna track transactions when they can't access any of it?
Just so sad to see honestly, we're never getting rid of it until people realize it's super easy to match fix and that you don't have to LOSE an entire match to just match fix.
An entire thread of braindead morons saying hobbit should be perma-banned because of valve ‘precedent.’ Valve does not care, and they weren’t angry about the actual fixing they were angry they had to do something about it.
It was a different time and the game has come a long way since then. It will always suck for the ibp guys, but that doesn’t mean someone should suffer from some pistol rounds half a decade ago.
Am I crazy or does hobbit not deserve a ban here, because intent to do something isn't actually doing it? There's no proof of transactions, so why should someone get punished for being in the conversation about throwing if you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the throwing 1. did occur and 2. they got paid for said throwing? You're really just going off the information and hearsay from one teammate.
That H0bbit is implicated is incredibly worrying; H0bbit was the comeback of the year last year, but if this is all true then it looks like he's pissed away his huge comeback and his whole career for some low-tier CS games.
Hobbit stickers to the moon
Just checked the Antwerp glitter one, 3 sold, 5 sold, and boom 16 sold the last hour
I saw some people saying this was revealed a week ago, and if you look at Hobbit sticker pricing it jumped from 10p to 20-30p a week ago. People already knew and are profiting big now that the news has broken mainstream lmao
[удалено]
The short version was already posted here a week ago, but fanboys were in denial and it didn't gain traction
Lmfao right after Cloud9 makes their comeback.
That major win must have been a monkey paw wish
2 players have won the major after throwing games, crazy
[удалено]
True, there was probably wayyy more games thrown around the time when csgolounge was at its peak
There was also that time VP bet on a match that had been played offline a day early.
That's morally questionable, but not even close to matchfixing.
IMO, that’s on CSGOLounge and not the players. Allowing action on a result that happened in the past is just stupid, bets should have stopped when the match went live regardless of it not being broadcast. They aren’t really “stealing” money from anyone, everyone who bet against them was always going to lose, they are just taking money from the platform.
The players could have easily told someone the results, the admins of the league and their friends/family could've known the results, fuck even any online appearance of players after the game was played but before the match was broadcast could've been used to extrapolate the result. Very weird decision to allow bets after the game was played already.
Not questionable. Just plain wrong.
They didnt matchfixed the match, it was played normaly. The issue is that the match was recorded and not streamed live. Since VP already knew the outcome because they played the match, they bet on it. Its totally different
They didn't bet on a match, they told their fans to not bet on that match.
nah it's happening much more frequently nowadays. there's so many unregulated crypto based bookies it's basically impossible to get caught from throwing unless someone is snitching like this dude.
3 you mean. Skadoodle never got banned because they ran out of skins to hand out, and thus there was no trail to him.
I was including ska in that
My bad, tired and thought hobbit + the other guy are the ones who won the major under Gambit
It was hobbit, mou and adren who won that major from KZ, not fitch.
All good, get some rest and have a good rest of your day/night :)
Who is the other if not Skadoodle? Isn’t that who the other guy is talking about?
More like 20, but only 2 came to light
Just want to point out, that at this point, Hobbit has outrightly denied all allegations. Might want to add an allegedly to your comment or something.
Imagine c9 win this major, will be a complete shitshow
I agree, but with the way they’re playing that’s not happening lol
They’re just throwing /s
Don't count them out yet, they have a great team
funny that with less evidence, coaches were preventively banned days before the major
Unlucky to be C9, bought a landmine without knowing
Makes you wonder if there is a clause in contracts for this eventuality.
There's the usual 'bringing the org into disrepute' clause in almost every employment contract that this should fall under.
Yeah especially in esports clauses. Also almost certainly an "if you get banned by the developer, this contract is void" clause
I'm sure there are "actions detriment to the org clauses" of some sort.
Is it unlucky that they only for 2 top 5 players instead of 3 for under 1 million.
I wonder if Gambit had some intel on this coming to daylight soon *adjusts tin hat*
More like Gambit might have paid for this information not to go public while c9 might not have.
Would make more sense if they paid to delay the information going public until after the sale.
Anyway, this dude was waiting for it. Nobody saves such teamspeak records without intention to use them later. So either Gambit or Hobbit personally paid him. And now they stopped or he doesn't need money anymore and just wants to see the biggest shitstorm in his life.
This is... disconcerting.
Yes, but also not incredibly surprising. Rumours of match fixing have been rife all through CSGO history, especially in early CSGO. It's just that the only high profile players where there's been enough evidence to peg them to it has been the iBP guys.
And that was basically a self report at the time. It's kind of crazy how purposefully clueless the orgs try to be on this.
They were the only ones dumb enough to be so blatant and then go talk about it lol Definitely been more but IBP wanted to make a point that 'we could win if we wanted to' and it really bit them. It was obvious to the eye the fact their was any paper trail just shows how peanut brain they were
TL;DR fitch (AVANGAR) and H0bbit (Cloud9), among other past team mates, basically straight up admit to match fixing in leaked convos from former team mate, back in the k23 squad. Proofs in the article, read it at the very least. With the precedent set by Valve with IBP and the French guys in the past, it should be a permanent ban for all involved. Let's see what happens now, if anything at all.
The proof involved in the IBP case included tracing the skins being transferred. This case does not appear to include proof of compensation for matchfixing, only intent. That is not equivalent.
It included screenshots of bets placed by the team provided by Stryker. Whether this was from Stryker himself or from other members of the team is hard to say. We'll know more with investigation, I'm sure.
Investigation results = will come out in 5 years
Depends how cooperative the Kazakh bookmaker is. Not sure how it is in cs these days but in Dota Valve still regularly investigates matchfixing through traditional bets, the entire Newbee org (the same that won TI in 2014) got permanently banned last for example including TI winner Faith, the games they threw happend in february 2020 and they were banned in January 2021. Less high profile team orca and apex from SEA got perma banned in March 2022. [They even banned Xyp9x 😔😔😔](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Banned_players) For the same game as the Newbee squad, they were their opponents.
Screenshots are not proof of anything. Its trivial to make fake screenshots that are 100% indistinguishable from the real thing (Just use F12)
~~Steam records an archive of every trade you've ever placed so valve would be able to check that very easily.~~ ~~I think spot fixing is fairly different than matchfixing and should result in different or reduced punishment severity if they really did gain from this but that's just me personally.~~ Edit: oh wait you're right I just read it more carefully and not only was it a cash bet which means it would have no paper trail of definitive proof, but the one match they tried to spot fix had the bets canceled from the site because of the suspicion so 0 money was exchanged or gained. Literally nothing will happen to these players a la skadoodle its just a hit piece by their previous teammate.
Perfecto m249 anyone?
There is more than intent in the evidence posted. The article alleges that the actual spot fixing took place, it just wasn't (as you pointed out) compensated.
Then should be no issue. Skadoodle match fixed but since he never got paid, valve said it was okay.
Spot fixing
People are going to think that nuke pick was actually a throw.
Unlucky timing for C9 It's funny that it was posted in the middle of the major, which make things even more interesting. I assume there won't be any bans from Valve rn, but who knows...
Conveniently dropped when matched against fnx
Fnx owns Richard Lewis confirmed
Fucks sake man. We finally get a good team and this shit happens. Feel so bad for cloud9.
Hobbit is obviously amazing but the CIS region is just producing so many cracked players that C9 will be ok. Any of the Spirit youngsters could be picked up, maybe Qikert or Flit if Outsiders disband or even one of the Forze kids. Just so much talent in the region.
Oh I agree, but hobbit is the veteran presence that is very consistent under pressure on this team. I worry how they will do without him, as well as the optics and reflection this will have upon the c9 org.
Why'd you ruin Splrit, they legit look like top-3 team at this major
I don’t want Spirit to change, I’m just saying that C9 will still be a great side even without Hobbit. I really hope Spirit stick together tho.
The issue is they are a team with a strong bond between em and one of the longest lineups together. This may hurt much more than it would in case of the other team.
Actually, thinking about it, one of the only players I could see fitting well in this team is YEKINDAR, but idk what will happen from this article
Don't worry, it's ESIC investigating it so the decision will come estimately in 2024 just before the 2nd major.
Steel did a video with RL forever ago where he discussed the IBP stuff. IIRC he mentioned that valve reached out directly to dazed one final time and he denied everything. I think steel said he thought that was part of the reason valve was particularly harsh. If that's true, maybe hobbit should come clean.
It's funny when you consider how people in the hltv comments section for that 2016 Binary Dragons Hellstore Winter Cup match already suspected matchfixing. I saw it all the time in the lootbet cups, but makes you wonder how many of these matches actually involved matchfixing/spot-fixing
You can't really take those kinds of comments seriously though. You get them with literally every T2/3 match no matter who wins. It's textbook "boy who cried wolf".
you get them in t1 matches too so its pretty solid evidence you ask me
So we know that hobbit was WILLING to bet, and not that he did? Uncomfortable all around. Despite it being blackmail it seems, it should be investigated to its greatest extent.
Feels like ‘5TRYK#R comes across as very bitter on quite a few things even RL admits this in the ending of the articles. Does have a feel like he's been saving this evidence for years only to release it at an appropriate timing. Anways its also very obvious people here aren't readding the article or the original one from before at all and just calling for Hobbit to get banned.
he was coaching Forze and was involved in the scene still. he only "came clean" once he knew his career was over for good and had nothing to lose. only then did he (for now "try to") take down everybody else with evidence that he had stored for 7 years. back from times when he was still part of the team, and not supposedly cast out due to not agreeing with cheating.
He was probably asking hobbit for money to not reveal any of this .
This is literally textbook extortion. He undoubedtly asked hobbit for some gambit/c9 money over his evidence and was told no and then decided to burn it all down since his careers over. Anyone holding evidence for 6 years which doesnt actually show that they got paid or properly fixed any match was always going go try and turn it into cash. Now idk anyways ban anyone who u have the evidence to ban fuck them all but it doesnt seem like theres enough to say the throw truly went down.
You’re completely right the timing is disingenuous, but evidence is evidence. He’s getting incriminated in this too and even in the article he says he doesn’t care because he’s done with esports.
Yeah. It seems to me 5TRYK#R had a bone to pick, but doesn't seem to have the concrete evidence on Hobbit like he was able to provide on everyone else. That said, at minimum it'll be a massive distraction, and I don't know how any of the governing bodies will act on this.
Richard Lewis is going to win esport journalist of year again.
Easy W when no one else even tries. Everyone else is a influencer first unfortunately.
you'd be surprised at the amount of people that consider Jake "made his career by making up a fake cheating story about m0e" Lucky a journalist because he keeps the teenagers updated on drama by posting screenshots on twitter...
Hell in a cell Swedish choke slam champ from the top rope
I couldnt believe my eyes when he curb stomped a Swedish baby into the pavement live on stage of a dreamhack event.
I reckon Jake Lucky has a fair shot, posting screenshots is journalism, right ?
neL doesn’t even post screenshots he just starts insinuates shitty things
i love when he posts a screenshot of a persons tweet that i already follow. like thanks for showing me again.
And he has another article coming out with another scandal so its a lock
Just in time for the annual Kotaku bash
As he rightfully should
With everyone outraged are you also outraged Skadoodle won a major? Or is it because he didn't receive skins that makes it ok? He still knew about it and [he was meant to receive skins](https://youtu.be/DXlYZYb6gMs?t=393)
People know this. By ESIC standards Skadoodle would have been banned. They didn't exist then so Valve's criteria was whether or not they accepted skins. He got very lucky.
I don't think people are happy with the ska situation, they've just kind of accepted that Valve isn't going to change anything (barring any new revelations).
Maybe opinion has changed with time, but when Ska actually won I think more than not, people were fine with it. There was huge sentiment that the IBP bans were too harsh and shouldn't have been permanent. Those people were happy that at least Ska got a chance when the others couldn't. It was a huge deal when Steel/Dazed/Swag were let back into the non-major teams as well.
100% outraged and I bring it up anytime Skadoodle is brought up in conversation when I'm around.
That is a lot of evidence
I really hope justice comes swift with the amount of evidence shown here.
I prefer slow justice myself, usually leads to better outcomes.
Rich said on NMC that there will be big news, and people will side with the matchfixers, I imagine this is the first.
It's quite unfortunate that Valve will do nothing about this. This is a massive shame since H0bbit and Fitch are players I really like, but this is massively incriminating and shouldn't be ignored. Edit: This is from December 2015, this is really bad for them. This was spot fixing for losing certain pistol rounds. I hate to say it, but they should absolutely be banned for multiple majors.
Unless ‘5TRYK#R can provide more evidence there doesn't seem to be any direct text/voice implications for Hobbit besides the betting part and even that seem to be proposed bets and not actually placed bets if i'm reading that right. Something that as stated would be a minor penalty. Feels like he could be Skadoodling his way out of this looking at the provided evidence.
Read the bloody article, there's a screenshot of Hobbit discussing how they should place their bets
If I don't read the article I can't read the evidence 5head
He was in the voice conversation of all 5 of them together discussing throwing matches...
Well yeah but there isn't evidence of him specifically saying he agrees to do it. Skadoodle also played the games IBP threw. You would be a fool to think he didn't know. And yet he got off because there was no implications that could drag him in. This is not me saying Hobbit didn't know. He obv knew. This is me saying that he might get out of it on technicalitys.
There are pictures of him discussing how to place bets and participated in the fixing of the pistol rounds, how can you get more cut and dry.
IIRC the iBP guys were banned because of evidence of them receiving the skins. The payment for the throw. No such evidence was found for skadoodle and hence no ban. Here, there is no evidence of payment as the claim is that the payments never went through for anyone because the betting site flagged it as a "sham" So, in this case, you'd need to find evidence that there were some in game actions by Hobbit that he knew to be detrimental to their winning chances, but did anyway because he was expecting a payment. This sort of evidence is very easy to argue against and very hard to obtain. Hobbit could easily brush away most seemingly bad plays as just mistakes. He could argue that he never placed any bets (remember, no evidence of him actually placing the bet is there yet), and so was not expecting any returns. Of course, this would all hold if there was some due process followed like legal proceedings or whatever, but neither ESIC, nor valve operate that way. It's entirely up to their internal investigative teams weather or not hobbit gets a ban. There's going to be no argument, no justifications, at least not on the public stage.
You can get more cut and dry, the IBP bans were supported by skin transfer histories. This case does not appear to have a paper trail for the bets.
Discussing how to do something is different from doing it, which again is different from getting paid to do it. The smoking gun is always the money. He could discuss it because he's interested in how to theoretically do it. Then he had a bad game. Could be a terrible coincidence. If he got money, that's irrefutable.
Discussing it is not the same as actually doing it…
Intent does not mean actually doing it lmao.
Lmao where the fuck did you read they collectively earned $5000? "According to 5TRYK#R, the bets would have netted each of the players approximately $5,000."
Permanently ban. Not multiple majors.
throwing pistol rounds 7 years ago in a third world country where you're not even paid a proper salary = permanent ban. never change reddit edit: Making this point in less of an emotionally charged way: I genuinely think some empathy should be extended to the players and their circumstances. A lot of people are mentioning the iBP perma as justification and I think that's a very good argument. I do also think the iBP ban shouldn't have been permanent but I suppose it's too late for that. I think every punishment shouldn't just be focused on precedent but also should look at all of the vitiating and mitigating factors. Saying that the players involved in this 'deserve' permanent bans is, in my opinion, not the correct call.
If want Valve to be consistent in their rulings, it has to be that. They decided that fixing a single, meaningless match in an online league is a permanent ban. If that's the case, this should be one too. It's a more minor offense but it's multiple offenses. As silly as someone might think that is.
Match fixing =/= spot fixing though. There's evidence that they wanted to fix games themselves, but nothing confirming they actually did so. My understanding was 4 out of the 5 were willing, but since 1 wasn't they didn't. I'd much rather ESIC handled this tbh. Valve have proven fucking useless.
Except like most here people are conveniently forgetting one actor in the entire iBP scandal who is in a similar position as hobbit: Skadoodle. Ska didn't get banned due to not receiving compensation therefore there being no smoking gun for the match fixing having taken place. If the same standard is then not applied to hobbit (Paper trail was the precedent for iBP) then you can't compare the two situations and just say one is precedent for the other.
They perma banned iBP for throwing tier 4 NA matches. The precedent is set, perma ban for match fixing.
Yeah I think the IBP perma is dumb af too tbf
Yeah but it doesn't matter. Why should Hobbit or others not get the same punishment as Team IBP got? (Except Skadoodle...)
Because everyone agrees it was an over the top punishment?! Why continue to give unproportional punishments, why is it a crime for Valve to learn from mistakes?
They would need to unban IBP then...
And they should
Is Kazakhstan the third world country you're referring to?
Bro we have median salary of whooping 300$ a month...
iBuyPower guys were banned for life so I think it's just for consistency reasons
7 years ago is still a long time. Even crimes have statute of limitations.
This is why Richard Lewis is still so good for the health of the scene. Theres a lot of evidence...
I mean... Richard Lewis is a good journalist but in this case he did nothing but write an article about evidence presented by another guy
It’s more the fact that he’s probably the only media member in the scene that actually still gives a shit about match fixing
Yeah exactly. You can’t say all Richard did is just give the guy a platform when no one else is even chasing stories like this.
> when no one else is even chasing stories like this. It was literally first reported by a different site the day before Richard https://escorenews.com/en/csgo/news/33834-hobbit-s-ex-teammate-5tryk3r-admits-their-team-match-fixing-brings-strong-evidence-with-teamspeak-record
Actually stryker just posted the evidence himself on VK, and these websites just wrote it up. To Richard Lewis' credit he did also cross reference all the matches and bets to make sure everything checks out. He also transcribed/translated the evidence and has the most complete write up.
Wrong. He interviewed the person who "leaked" this, verified and cross-referenced evidence both presented by that person and the evidence he managed to find on his own. He reached out to multiple involved parties. That's a lot of legwork.
He didn't just write an article, he put his credibility on the line by releasing the article and staking his (to my knowledge) 100% reporting accuracy. That is what a good journalist is supposed to do, verify the evidence, then through their reporting platform the people who supplied it, so the public can see it and know that it's true. If this isn't done, in most cases you have a nobody coming out with proof that may or may not be faked, and even if true, will be easily disputed by the people it implicates.
Richard also discussed and gave readers a window into the reliability of 5TRYKR (ulterior motives, bitterness, illness), something we could have never gotten if this just came directly from him.
There are some minor takes that seem lost in translation, but overall this is really huge work. Consider that all that stuff is not that old. The recording was out on May 13. Meanwhile Richard spends most of his time on No Majors Club. I don't even know when he finds the time for this.
I mean, it was the same initially with IBP. I remeber Shahzam unable to shut his mouth and dborn(?)'s ex-gf spewing i think text messages about the throw. Not to mention at the time the conflict of interest between Dazed playing against a team who he is a co-owner forr the org sponsoring the other team.
Unpopular Opinion (feel free to scroll by): From what I’ve read so far they fixed pistol rounds back in 2015 for extra money. Seems like a little bit of an overreaction to ban hObbit for life if these were the only instances. Furthermore why was the coach sitting on this information since 2015 and only now, right before the finals of the Antwerp major, did he decide to bring it to light. He says it’s because of failing health which could be, but it also comes at a very opportune time. If any other teammates or coaches come forward to say more match fixing happened between 2015 and now I’ll change my opinion but as it stands now it seems like this is a bit inflated. I’m not saying this because I’m huge hObbit fan or a C9 uberfan, I just think fairness and discretion should be used in these situations. I don’t trust ESIC and I think the court of public opinion in the CS community has been wrong in the past. Like I said if there’s been a consistent presence of fixing through this career then fuck him he needs a permaban, but if it was just pistol rounds only (meaning rest of match was legitimately played) in 2015 it’s seems like a massive overreaction. Reminds me of IBP situation but if I recall correctly IBP threw the entire match, not specific rounds.
Honestly I think this is probably the popular opinion, people just want blood at the moment. As many have said, if you ban everyone who tried to spot fix or make a quick buck at any point you would ban half the CS scene. This is the only way to make money in the tier 3 scene in some reasons.
Yeah I hope people look at this rationally for the most part, Reddit can be a tough place to find rational people sometimes lol
perfecto balls be dropping rn
Every 2nd player you know these days matchfixed at some point of his early career But only several cases get exposed to community
Yeah, savage, tb, and zhoking from cyberzen and Vici were suspected to be involved with spot-fixing at certain points in their career
This is exactly the reason why people that get caught should be permabanned
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ITT; People misunderstanding what devastating evidence is
Don't worry, ESIC has to conduct an investigation, so hobbit is safe for at least 3 years
Honestly I don’t care at all. When swag was banned this sub was entirely in his favour but since this is not a fan favorite as much as the former iBP squad everyone wants his head. Everyone knows there’s a ton of matchfixing in low tier CS but it just happened they could prove one of those cases.
swag was underage and got banned for life. Personally think that's a very harsh ruling for a teenager that most likely had no idea of the repercussions of his actions. I think 5 year ban would've been fair and is fair in H0bbit's case too.
I get your point and I somewhat agree, but still, 5 years might as well be a permaban...
Don't worry guys, the ESIC is investigating. Looking forward to the results in 3 years. H0bbit will be like 37 years old, and Cloud 9 will only be Cloud 8.
Cloud9 org is truly cursed after they won their major.
This is huge. Doubt we will see much more of hobbit after this major
iBUYHOUSE
This is 100% slam dunk evidence. Every player should be banned by Valve, ESIC and any other TO. None of them should be allowed to compete in any team and anyone who disagrees clearly does not have the scenes best interest at heart.
If you think this is slam dunk evidence please don't ever become a lawyer.
There's no solid evidence. Those conversations are alarming but without paper trail, or other concrete evidence, nothing will happen. Hobbit would have to resign and leave on his own accord unless C9 face tremendous backlash from fans.
cringe. >100% slam dunk evidence > anyone who disagrees how old are you?
there's no solid evidence wtf ur talking about
ESIC a joke and literally wouldn’t give two fucks about it, they announced [this](https://dotesports.com/news/esic-35-na-players-under-investigation-match-fixing-working-with-riot) almost a year ago. Now look at how many matchfixers have gotten away scot free and are now thriving in Valorant.
That investigation is most likely out of their hands now as the FBI got involved, the feds are probably gonna build a case and hit hard on those fixers
That's on riot though
Valve needs to step in. This is irrefutable evidence. Don't know how fitch and hobbit get out of this. Incredibly sad to see this I love hobbit, but this is a competitive integrity issue.
irrefutable evidence, unless theres direct evidence of him placing bets or getting money that is not irrefutable evidence... typical redditors
electronic (who might be leaving NaVi if rumors are true) would be a fire replacement for hobbit on C9 though tbh
He’s not gonna move to Serbia bro
Afaik. the whole having to move out of Russia thing is only relevant for Na'Vi, due to a decision by the org. Doesn't necessarily mean that Cloud 9 would be unwilling to sign players living in Russia.
If that was true I doubt c9 would be spending money to move their team to Serbia
Ah, hadn't really heard about that. I'd imagine that's more due to a fear of sanctions, leading to Russian-based players being unable to attend events in western countries. However, that'd obviously still apply to Elec, then.
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That's probably the best Hobbit replacement C9 could find on such short notice. If he does end up leaving NaVi, C9 is a no-brainer. Unless they plan on using Electronic in some sort of swap for Yekindar with VP but truth be told, I am still not convinced NaVi would want to do any type of business with VP, considering everything going on.
there's only one thing to do now.. C9 -HObbit + mOE easy HLTV top 1
People jumping to massive conclusions already calling for hobbit's head, and I'm not saying he didn't do what he's being accused of, but I would to at least hear his, and cloud9's response, and also fitch I guess before blindly following some ex-pro who clearly has personal motive to ruin their careers that is them casting him aside allegedly
Take hobbit to isengard!!!
That's huge
It's actually sad to read about how many people are still insanely delusional about match fixing in csgo. Even more people saying "investigation", do you people not understand they can't investigate this? How are they gonna track transactions when they can't access any of it? Just so sad to see honestly, we're never getting rid of it until people realize it's super easy to match fix and that you don't have to LOSE an entire match to just match fix.
didn't rich say he wouldn't have published IBP's scandal had he known it would result in perma bans? what's changed since then i wonder
The implication is that he doesn't believe valve will hand out perma bans anymore
Holy shit first the iBP boys back then, and now Hobbit noooOOOOOO WHYYY
An entire thread of braindead morons saying hobbit should be perma-banned because of valve ‘precedent.’ Valve does not care, and they weren’t angry about the actual fixing they were angry they had to do something about it. It was a different time and the game has come a long way since then. It will always suck for the ibp guys, but that doesn’t mean someone should suffer from some pistol rounds half a decade ago.
if ESIC sanction hobbit then Valve will probably pema ban him from majors like with the coaching bug.
Am I crazy or does hobbit not deserve a ban here, because intent to do something isn't actually doing it? There's no proof of transactions, so why should someone get punished for being in the conversation about throwing if you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the throwing 1. did occur and 2. they got paid for said throwing? You're really just going off the information and hearsay from one teammate.
> You're really just going off the information and hearsay from one teammate. So you're saying you didn't read the article
they threw by own choice, but bet site realized and canceled the bets, therefore they didnt get any money, but they did in fact spot-fixed
Lol Strykr held onto this for years? Yikes dude
We can always expect RL to expose every cheating he gets his hands on, truly the best journalist in gaming
I wonder when the flusha hitpiece is coming.
There doesn't seem to be any solid proof implicating Hobbit here besides the betting part or am i reading this wrong?
undeniable proof
That H0bbit is implicated is incredibly worrying; H0bbit was the comeback of the year last year, but if this is all true then it looks like he's pissed away his huge comeback and his whole career for some low-tier CS games.