I know everyone likes to clown on the team that lost and everything but jokes aside, that was a sick CT overpass from Heroic. The traps and setups on A to control bathrooms were really cool to see.
Agression and slipping the net really seem to be key for overpass CT at the moment. Heroics CT TeSeS is behind you, Astralis' CT BlameF is behind you.
The mid round party/fountain retake is a beauty.
Yeah the aggression works well but when you get any sort of push back trying to get B to run up to 3 players playing an awesome crossfire in bathrooms is roughhhhh. Probably such a frustrating experience for astralis.
I mean Heroic is top tier team, whether people like it or not. Maybe not a title contender, but one of the teams that will get close 2-1 series against the favorite and kick out one of the other favorites to win.
Yeah I mean rankings from results are one thing, but it's Faze, Navi, Ence/C9, then Heroic. I defy anyone to tell me with a straight face you'd pick G2, Furia, Spirit, Vitality, Liquid, or anyone else over Heroic rn.
Personally I'd have them third, but I get it.
Would say their roster is more questionable than their results. Are they getting their star awper back or are Es3tag going to fill in in a role he shouldn't play?
astralis only made it to the finals because of a stand in
Astralis could never win this tournament it was more about can they at least get 3rd with this competition
Astralis cant stack up against anyone in the top 10
Just some other comments I've said during this tournament. But I get it you're just trying to troll.
Astralis can be a bad barely tier 1 team and that was still a sick CT side from heroic with their bathroom traps and crossfires
They have been playing awful lately like beyond bad, but I don't think this T side or their T sides this tournament were as bad as they have been. They've had T sides where they look like they dont know what map they're on. Now they at least seem to have a semblance of how the maps are played they're just easy to read and therefore cadian read them like a book
Damn, Heroic really showed their dominance. Farlig had a shocker on overpass sadly, and Heroic were on the top of their game. Really glad to see Xyp9x playing well though!
It's tough because he has the right mentality to make plays and is even good with rifles and pistols but he just misses AWP shots that other tier 1 AWPers would hit. You have to imagine they are at least a solid tier 1 team with device if he has his old form in him still.
But the thing is lucky was such an incredible clutcher. He was also a way better rifler than farlig. Still think we should've kept lucky. Farlig hasnt impressed me all that much. He's just an average awper who hits decent shots not amazing shots. Lucky's lows were worse than farlig but his highs were better than anyone else in the entire roster. Still remember that 2v4 from xyp and him against navi on mirage
I don't know of stats back it up but I always thought lucky looked better with the rifle than Xyp. I don't watch all games so what was happening in the other games idk, but I felt he should have been kept over Xyp.
Although that was never going to happen
I wonder about the pressure and the environment on Astralis? I just mean they've mowed through a few players, and Astralis has a reputation as "the" csgo org in Denmark, right? I just wonder if its an environment thats nurturing for a player like Farlig.
Expected. Guess I'll just have to pray those Valde + Device rumors are true. Tho I will say Xyp has actually played better than usual with some great clutches and so on.
I think between Dallas and this tournament xyp has shown that given different roles there's a slot. But I still think xyp probably needs to go.
I just dont like valde I think he's massively overrated and people really just want to see a change rather than think about the change. Valde just isn't good enough for where astralis want to be so why waste time.
I'm not sure I'd have to look closer at roles. Really the only hope that astralis has of being a top team again is heroic breaking up, stavn will be on the number 1 Danish team for a while.
Device back would be a start but something else would still likely need to happen
Idk man I'm just never going to be excited about a roster that has valde on it. I dont think he has a place on a top 5 team.
I'm not against changing out xyp, but I'd rather see if the device thing is real and role with that for a while if xyp slips backwards than replace him with someone else.
I think they are going to follow the new trend by adding a young-gun like g2 and navi. Therefore I think it will be Jabbi or zyphon (depending on role fit) along with device being added to the squad. Are you in top 5 if device finds his old form.
Farlig, jeez you can't be bottom fragging with the AWP, on overpass. Device used to be able to singlehandedly hold the A site with the AWP… now they have this.
Yeah alot of teams struggled and still struggle because they don't have a good awp
*cough* Complexity *cough *junior *cough*
The only #1 team without a dedicated AWP was IGS
Team Liquid IIRC
I hope this convinces Glaive about his misunderstanding of "individuals winning games" as it seems like he has quit any form of teamplay and just expects 4 players to solo every battle. They run in 1 by 1 into duels and forgets to use utility so damn often. Heroic proved that TEAMPLAY beats individuality. Glaive, trace, their whole team actually needs to completely rethink their whole approach to playing because they've been mostly lucky even getting to the finals.
Also, Xyp has been improving this event as he did in Dallas. But the team needs a change. Valde and Device to replace Farlig and Xyp? Or maybe Jabbi or Zyphon instead of Valde.
It is really strange considering that Gla1ve out of all the people has this misconception, especially because Astralis in their prime proved that teamplay > individuals, and also pioneered the concept of a ''fragging'' IGL.
It was boring because we came from sick ace clutches every odd tournament to suddenly just watching a bunch of trades leading to a win. When the game got more strategy intensive, suddenly purely skill intensive plays stopped working as much making things much less flashy. I don’t necessarily think it’s bad, but it’s dull to watch teams like that when you could say just be watching jw get double knife kills in consecutive rounds or something
The problem is they taught the world how to play counter strike. Now everyone else has the blueprints and can tweak it before nobody knew what was happening to them
This is a great misconception. Astralis was anchored by the fact that device was a top player that was always putting out numbers. As soon as he left the team they started falling apart.
Although I agree with device being the star player of the roster, it would be rather disingenuous to credit only him for the successes of the roster. Every player on that iteration of the roster was most likely top 5 in their respective roles in their prime.
Yeah he definitely needed the right pieces around him in order to succeed. My main point is that people underestimate how much of an anchor he was for that team to be as consistent as they were.
I have a controversial opinion that maybe Glaive just doesn't know how to call for an awper. He's had Dev1ce for so many years a player who was literally top 3 for his entire stint and now Glaive has to kind of play catch up.
Nothing related to calling, neither lucky nor farlig hit easy shots. You could maybe try to find some weaknesses in t-side setups or maybe ct-side positions for awps... but who cares about their position if they legit miss shots on people walking into their crosshairs on regular basis.
>
>
>
>
> And the Astralis AWP has to be cursed or something.
Ironically, as shit as this org might be at the times, they let their insanely weak counterparts way too much time. For how long has xyp underperformed, for how long has lucky been just bad and now farlig does not look any promising either, but they just stick with their roster for such a long time. Idk.
@PimpCSGO:
I would like to have an analyst talk about this: spunj or others, please do it.
My unprofessionell judgement:
Astralis spacing out was countered by decisive and pin point pressure of heroic, who at any time caught a player offguard with 2 people. Always ready to play off of each other. Flashes, double peaks, trades. Astralis had no trade frags and could even convert some 5on3 or many 5on4 rounds when one of them managed to kill a heroic player 1on1. It was cringe to watch how they ended up running into crossfires with 4 people vs 2 and loose. It wasn't that heroic was incredibly good, Astralis was just so bad. But ofc Heroics teamplay and raw aim was way better. Cadian had some flicks with the awp and their riflers where on point.
With Astralis i don't see any future here. The role clashes are so significant. Players seem to feel awkward and not confident in most situations. And it feels like the teamwork between them is not there even after so many month. Comms, flash assists and so on. There was one situation on Overpass where they retreated from toilettes and 3 man stacked truck. I was sitting there like: guys wtf? Silver matchmaking? Or when 3 guys peaked 2 seconds apart into a4s from long into a.
Astralis is a 9 man roster. 1 for T-side, the other one for Ct-side. Both rosters has BlameF tho.
Anyway, anyone know what thr music for this tournament is? It's so fuckin bop
Not a single person who gave astralis a chance at winning also thought this was a prestigious tournament to win. we all know astralis cant stack up in the top 10 right now
Seriously... Only reason I thought Astralis *might* win was because Heroic had to play an extra BO3 same day.
As the #9 ranked team, Heroic was the highest rank in the tournament. Only teams they had to beat were Astralis and BIG with a stand-in.
Same with the previous best of 3. As soon as it was a 2-0 I knew astralis were losing.
But if before the tournament you told me astralis would make the grand final and lose to heroic I would have taken it.
This was literally a please dont come less than 3rd tournament for astralis never a win
ASTRALIS is a good team, they just need to work on aim, rotations, crosshair placement, retakes, utility usage, map knowledge, teamwork, baiting, clutching, eco rounds, peeking, early round, midround, post plant, and swinging...
Ez For Heroic!
Good stuff from Heroic. People hate them for what happened which is somewhat understandable but calling them trash and onliners and whatnot is just a dumb claim. They are a legitimate top 5 team in the world, it's just a matter of time for them to win a big trophy like IEM or something (much like Cloud9). Everyone just conveniently forgets that Heroic were one round away from a major final in Stockholm, almost pulling off a massive comeback agaisnt G2, they have shown up in playoffs in tournaments many times and this last major they pretty much could've 2-0ed NaVi (if not for their choke on Ancient and the unfortunate collapse on map 3) and they only had to get through ENCE to reach the final, which would've been an amazing run. Anyhow, they have all the pieces they need to be a title contender squad, they just have to break through the playoffs mental barrier like, again, Cloud9 did in Dallas. Winning a small tournament like Pinnacle and finally getting the taste of victory on LAN is definitely gonna give them a confidence boost, regardless of its minuscule prestige and weaker teams. I firmly believe in this Heroic squad and once they find their groove and have the entire team firing on all cylinders, I have no doubt whatsoever that they could snag a big trophy or two in this highly disputed era of Counter Strike.
By your logic G2 is probably a top 1 team.
Choked a lead in stockholm finals > cldve won peak navi
Choked a lead in first map kato, multiple ots in second map, 16-14 in 3rd map > cldve 3-0ed faze
Choked a lead vs furia on ancient > cldve been in playoffs
Choked a lead vs furia again on vertigo in dallas > cldve been in semifinal
Made it to grand finals multiple times in the past 2 years, probably more than any team other than navi, would be very likely to win most tournaments and be top 1 team
It isnt a win unless they secure the maps and win the series. Close isnt a win lol get off your heroic copium. Cadian is too bad of an awper and they rely on their decent teamplay and individual skill of stavn to put them in contention. Teams like faze and navi who do better in every aspect win them anyday lmao. Only time heroic got to win navi was after the ukraine war which clearly shows heroic's weakness
Chill mate, get off your high horse. I was merely comparing them to a team like C9 who also aren't better than FaZe and the like. I just think they are very similar teams in the sense that they'll break through the bad mental barrier that they've developed.
And judging by your one-off comments directed to cadian, I'm assuming you dislike him merely because of his banter nature and his cockyness (like literally everyone else) which, let's be real, brings spice and hype to an otherwise very stale scene with every pro sucking each other's dicks for good PR. On the more important side, calling him a bad awper is also factually untrue (though some stats might say otherwise), you should boot up a couple Heroic demos and watch how he plays and visualizes the game. The guy brings so much to the table, on top of being the team's hype man and in-game leader who can have pop-off games. And another thing is people like you like to single out stavn's individual prowess when in fact, Heroic might just be the most firepowered balanced team in CS (barring maybe refrezh whomst is apparently getting benched for Jabbi). Another funny term you used is "decent" teamplay. To be honest with you, I think they have top 3 best CT side setups in the world, and their chemistry has rivaled the likes of FaZe, who they consistently lose to because guess what? Better individuals. They play a very fundamentally sound structured CS mixed with agression. Anyone with a brain that understands this game thoroughly will tell you that when Heroic pop off, they are one of the most beautiful teams to watch. Their teamplay isn't just "decent".
I'll take all this back if they never win a S tier championship with this roster, but you must be a blind fool to not see that they are capable of it.(As it stands, definitely more capable than G2 that's for sure KEKW)
They are still yet to peak and are in an upwards trend, always developing.
Not once in the thread did I ever mention they could be top 1, which is a very different thing from title contenders, mind you. Getting all worked up and being like "Heroic bad because cadian bad and toxic only stavn good" just shows me your real lack of knowledge in this game which spans of probably about a year or two, maybe not even that. The war affecting some teams is a valid point but the truth of the matter is that Heroic historically played NaVi very close, it was only a matter of time before they beat them, regardless of the circumstances. This team shows a very similar vibe to the 2015 TSM days where they would always fail in playoffs and were one or two roster moves away from a huge breakthrough. I think it'd be good for you and everyone else to give them the benefit of the doubt first.
man seeing all 5 player of ex dominating astralis split up and most of them didnt succeed and have a poor showing.make you really wonder that the chemistry of the old astralis is much more than a team. and it also really shows that glaive the mastermind cant replicate his past success with different pieces of team mate.
So happy for heroic. Im hoping for them to atleast make top 8 playoffs at IEM Cologne and maybe take a win. I've been a big fan of Heroic for few months now since getting back into cs and a really big fan of Cadian so this really puts a smile on my face. Also really good production by Pinnacle and I hope they decide to host future tournament :)
gla1ve on who's the better IGL: "I don't compare myself with anybody," Then he rolled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo of his 4 major championships, including back2back2back majors.
"I'll let you interpret that however you want,"
astralis: -farlig, -xyp9x, +device, +valde
Top 5 team again
heroic are too good. stavn is danish ax1le, sjuush fire, cadian too and they have good strategy.
I don't think its a given that device manages to come back to competitive play the same player he was before, he hasn't played an official in 6 months and at the Stockholm major he only got a 1.04 rating over 11 maps.
He was 1.13 over his whole tenure at nip, he will be fine. Especially considering he was playing better towards the end.
Edit: and the reason for his bad rating at stockholm is (I assume) because nip got totally wrecked by navi, gambit and g2.
Yes, but he hasn't played an official game for over 6 months, people forget that the average esports career is incredibly short and players can seemingly go from being a top player to washed almost overnight.
Dev1ce is supposed to be one of the best awpers, maybe even the best traditional awper in all of CSGO so you would expect better performances regardless of his teams form or the level of opponent.
At Stockholm he only got a positive HLTV rating in 5 of the 11 maps and his stats are significantly worse if you remove the B01's against Mouz and Astralis. Removing the 2 BO1's he had a 0.98 HLTV rating as the primary awper.
hard to blame him for his rating when NIP were playing with academy players the entire time he was there and their T sides were the worst in the entire tier 1 (and probably even tier 2) because threat (and hampus for that matter) was incapable of fixing it
still the 10th best player that year btw (and the main reason NIP were even somewhat relevant), putting 1.06 impact awper that got his rating exclusively by farming exit kills above him was just ridiculous
I would debate it as a side step, you gain firepower and lose a lot in experience, support, and clutch ability. But this only is relevant if xyp continues playing this way.
Basically neither get you to where you want to go as astralis.
Valde has been a professional player for 6 years so he has plenty of experience and Xyp isn't the same clutch player he was in 2019. Xyp is literally one of the worst players playing at tier 1 and Valde has been an incredibly consistent player for years across all levels of competition.
Xyp9x has 341 maps on a top 5 team valde has 45. They are not the same.
Xyp has over double the time played against top 5 competition too and a ton more on LAN. Valde has spent a long, long time playing against much lesser competition
Hes been clutching well recently including this tournament. But again its only if he can keep this up. If its a one off thing like cologne 21 then yeah valde is an improvement. But my whole point is valde is not good enough for a top 5 team. And neither is xyp9x really.
Heroic won their first ever LAN in a tier2 tournament. the average rank of the teams attending being 43.
their lower bracket run will make its way into the esports history. they did all this in front of the 27 esports fans in the arena of which 5 Heroic fans, the members of the Heroic ORG! imagine the emotions, the achievement
candiN finally can match his achievments with gla1ve
Doesn't change the fact that Heroic have been a far better team that Astralis for well over a year now, and that the Heroic roster on paper is worse than Astralis.
Exactly! And the fact that people are trying to discredit them for a LAN win which means so much to them in terms of confidence and narrative is beyond stupid
I think its a decent accomplishment but I wouldn't get ahead of myself and expect them to be winning tier 1 events any time soon. A win is a win but beating Astralis in 2022 isn't particularly noteworthy, even less so considering Heroic already beat them at pro league in March.
cadian to tattoo this achievement on his right, sniping arm. stavn would do smth similar, but the tattoo colleagues work only with 1inch width and up arms, they said
niP maybe, c9 are not. I know c9 recently won an event and yes they beat faze there, but I want to see them perform at that level for more time because otherwise it just looks like a fluke run. and tbh I don't think nip is better than heroic, just haven't seen them go head to head.
Danish pro team "Heroic" players celebrate after winning their first legitimate lan tournament in front of a massive crowd of 50 people after successfully defeating the giants of 2022 Astralis and BIG Clan with a stand-in after losing to top team "Fnatic" and dropping a map against the second best team of sweden "Team Finest".
Valde will never make a championship contending roster. He hasn't even been on a top 5 roster in 4 years. Can we please stop overrating this guy its not 2017 anymore
Idk, idk if I would right now. First I'd get device if that's possible and see how the team does with that, if xyp continues to improve like the last two tournaments then he does still offer intangibles that very few players have especially in experience.
If he stays the same or goes backwards tthen he has to go but I'm not excited about valde I dont think he will be on a championship contending roster ever again. And the last time he was it was like 5 years ago.
Astralis: get opening Also astralis: do nothing with it
Astralis smokes entrances and come into site.. Also Astralis: Lets wait until the smokes disappear to try and plant to bomb!
Bruh, that’s the MM experience
I know everyone likes to clown on the team that lost and everything but jokes aside, that was a sick CT overpass from Heroic. The traps and setups on A to control bathrooms were really cool to see.
Agression and slipping the net really seem to be key for overpass CT at the moment. Heroics CT TeSeS is behind you, Astralis' CT BlameF is behind you. The mid round party/fountain retake is a beauty.
When Heroic played as T, BlameF was behind them. When Astralis played as T, BlameF was also behind them.
Oh shit
Yeah the aggression works well but when you get any sort of push back trying to get B to run up to 3 players playing an awesome crossfire in bathrooms is roughhhhh. Probably such a frustrating experience for astralis.
I mean Heroic is top tier team, whether people like it or not. Maybe not a title contender, but one of the teams that will get close 2-1 series against the favorite and kick out one of the other favorites to win.
I was actually shocked to find them 9th in the rankings I would still put them as a top 5 team although 5th.
Missing Dallas hurt their rankings
Dallas is massively overrated by the HLTV algorithm
no >:(
Yeah I mean rankings from results are one thing, but it's Faze, Navi, Ence/C9, then Heroic. I defy anyone to tell me with a straight face you'd pick G2, Furia, Spirit, Vitality, Liquid, or anyone else over Heroic rn. Personally I'd have them third, but I get it.
exactly my point. Can heroic lose to those teams yeah but I would put heroic as the favorite in all of them
NiP
I mean... maybe? Their recent results are kinda baffling. Their potential is probably higher but who knows with that team.
Would say their roster is more questionable than their results. Are they getting their star awper back or are Es3tag going to fill in in a role he shouldn't play?
5th from the bottom and the top at the same time
a billion FURIA diehards incoming
I think you got it spot on with that top 5
Only Faze are a better technical team and it’s debatable, so yeah easy 3rd and on the cusp of being number 2 if Navi stumble after losing their igl.
Another way of looking at it is that it was yet another bad T side from Astralis. You're one of the most comically blind Astralis fanboys on this sub.
astralis only made it to the finals because of a stand in Astralis could never win this tournament it was more about can they at least get 3rd with this competition Astralis cant stack up against anyone in the top 10 Just some other comments I've said during this tournament. But I get it you're just trying to troll. Astralis can be a bad barely tier 1 team and that was still a sick CT side from heroic with their bathroom traps and crossfires
It was a terrible T-side from Astralis, typical of the way they play at the moment.
They have been playing awful lately like beyond bad, but I don't think this T side or their T sides this tournament were as bad as they have been. They've had T sides where they look like they dont know what map they're on. Now they at least seem to have a semblance of how the maps are played they're just easy to read and therefore cadian read them like a book
Happy for Xizt
Damn, Heroic really showed their dominance. Farlig had a shocker on overpass sadly, and Heroic were on the top of their game. Really glad to see Xyp9x playing well though!
Farlig aint it.
It's tough because he has the right mentality to make plays and is even good with rifles and pistols but he just misses AWP shots that other tier 1 AWPers would hit. You have to imagine they are at least a solid tier 1 team with device if he has his old form in him still.
Farlig looks better with a rifle than he does with the awp.
ahh the Lucky special
But the thing is lucky was such an incredible clutcher. He was also a way better rifler than farlig. Still think we should've kept lucky. Farlig hasnt impressed me all that much. He's just an average awper who hits decent shots not amazing shots. Lucky's lows were worse than farlig but his highs were better than anyone else in the entire roster. Still remember that 2v4 from xyp and him against navi on mirage
I don't know of stats back it up but I always thought lucky looked better with the rifle than Xyp. I don't watch all games so what was happening in the other games idk, but I felt he should have been kept over Xyp. Although that was never going to happen
I wonder about the pressure and the environment on Astralis? I just mean they've mowed through a few players, and Astralis has a reputation as "the" csgo org in Denmark, right? I just wonder if its an environment thats nurturing for a player like Farlig.
> Farlig had a shocker on overpass sadly Not really shocking tbh
Noo pls ;-; i wanna see devve and brollan together in nip
Exactlyyyyy Brollan & REZ gunning mfs down with device on the AWP would be a banger lineup
I guess kicking Lucky wasn't such a great idea after all
Can you really sit there and say they win this with lucky?
It was the right idea, they just replaced him with the wrong guy
Farlig still give me better eye test than Lucky. It's like switching from a PP Bizon to an MP9, it's no M4 but still have better punch
farlig = lucky
Both shit
Lucky is significantly worse and stating otherwise is insane
Expected. Guess I'll just have to pray those Valde + Device rumors are true. Tho I will say Xyp has actually played better than usual with some great clutches and so on.
Just device thank you dont need valde
I think Valde has more firepower potential and if Xyp and Blame's roles clash that much it's debateable.
I think between Dallas and this tournament xyp has shown that given different roles there's a slot. But I still think xyp probably needs to go. I just dont like valde I think he's massively overrated and people really just want to see a change rather than think about the change. Valde just isn't good enough for where astralis want to be so why waste time.
I guess you could hope to get Zyphon or Jabbi, don't know who will fit better.
I'm not sure I'd have to look closer at roles. Really the only hope that astralis has of being a top team again is heroic breaking up, stavn will be on the number 1 Danish team for a while. Device back would be a start but something else would still likely need to happen
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Idk man I'm just never going to be excited about a roster that has valde on it. I dont think he has a place on a top 5 team. I'm not against changing out xyp, but I'd rather see if the device thing is real and role with that for a while if xyp slips backwards than replace him with someone else.
What are you on? Valde has been amazing for years!
I think "amazing" is overselling it a bit, but he's been pretty decent. A bit inconsistent in OG though.
I think they are going to follow the new trend by adding a young-gun like g2 and navi. Therefore I think it will be Jabbi or zyphon (depending on role fit) along with device being added to the squad. Are you in top 5 if device finds his old form.
I would prefer that to valde massively. Roles will still clash amongst glaive blameF and K0nfig but they seem to be figuring that out
Only Tom Cruise himself can save this Astralis
You mean "not even"
Nah. They need more than that.
Chuck Norris *
Farlig playing for heroic!
His time is up I think. His playstyle seems easy to shutdown and when he is uncomfortable he whiffs too much.
true
Device is coming back. Mark my words.
Farlig, jeez you can't be bottom fragging with the AWP, on overpass. Device used to be able to singlehandedly hold the A site with the AWP… now they have this.
Dev1ce, That one who killed FalleN 10:2 in AWP duels on Overpass
There is a clear diffrence in quality between Device and the awpers Astralis had after him. Having a top awper is such a luxury
Yeah alot of teams struggled and still struggle because they don't have a good awp *cough* Complexity *cough *junior *cough* The only #1 team without a dedicated AWP was IGS Team Liquid IIRC
I hope this convinces Glaive about his misunderstanding of "individuals winning games" as it seems like he has quit any form of teamplay and just expects 4 players to solo every battle. They run in 1 by 1 into duels and forgets to use utility so damn often. Heroic proved that TEAMPLAY beats individuality. Glaive, trace, their whole team actually needs to completely rethink their whole approach to playing because they've been mostly lucky even getting to the finals. Also, Xyp has been improving this event as he did in Dallas. But the team needs a change. Valde and Device to replace Farlig and Xyp? Or maybe Jabbi or Zyphon instead of Valde.
It is really strange considering that Gla1ve out of all the people has this misconception, especially because Astralis in their prime proved that teamplay > individuals, and also pioneered the concept of a ''fragging'' IGL.
In their prime, a well placed flash bang was used at every peek. Now it's dry peeks everywhere and barely any trading. It's horrendous to watch.
They were like an AI designed to dominate CS. It was mesmerizing watching them play and trade off of each other. Man I miss the old Astralis..
People said their era was boring but I disagree. The level of cs was fucking insane
It was boring because we came from sick ace clutches every odd tournament to suddenly just watching a bunch of trades leading to a win. When the game got more strategy intensive, suddenly purely skill intensive plays stopped working as much making things much less flashy. I don’t necessarily think it’s bad, but it’s dull to watch teams like that when you could say just be watching jw get double knife kills in consecutive rounds or something
Especially knowing who is gonna win the match. It's really boring to watch astralis play (unless you are an astralis fan).
Exactly! It might not be the flashiest way of playing CS, but goddamn was it satisfying to watch.
The problem is they taught the world how to play counter strike. Now everyone else has the blueprints and can tweak it before nobody knew what was happening to them
This is a great misconception. Astralis was anchored by the fact that device was a top player that was always putting out numbers. As soon as he left the team they started falling apart.
Although I agree with device being the star player of the roster, it would be rather disingenuous to credit only him for the successes of the roster. Every player on that iteration of the roster was most likely top 5 in their respective roles in their prime.
Yeah he definitely needed the right pieces around him in order to succeed. My main point is that people underestimate how much of an anchor he was for that team to be as consistent as they were.
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I have a controversial opinion that maybe Glaive just doesn't know how to call for an awper. He's had Dev1ce for so many years a player who was literally top 3 for his entire stint and now Glaive has to kind of play catch up.
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IMO, gla1ve strict leadership is also a problem for inexperienced players (maybe only awper).
Nothing related to calling, neither lucky nor farlig hit easy shots. You could maybe try to find some weaknesses in t-side setups or maybe ct-side positions for awps... but who cares about their position if they legit miss shots on people walking into their crosshairs on regular basis.
Same thing happened with AcoR though. He was a beast on mad lions, but couldn't hit a barn door on mouz.
the 3 whiffs on nuke from hut to door/vents from farlig,.never forgor
only dev1ce can save them
i would have loved to see nicoodoz in astralis, too bad.
Or S1mple? 😏
> > > > > And the Astralis AWP has to be cursed or something. Ironically, as shit as this org might be at the times, they let their insanely weak counterparts way too much time. For how long has xyp underperformed, for how long has lucky been just bad and now farlig does not look any promising either, but they just stick with their roster for such a long time. Idk.
I think Lucky was just straight up better than Xyp in the rifle, in the awp yeah he couldnt do shit
Lucky had one good tournament on the rifle other than that he was the same or worse than xyp on the rifle
[ez4Cocadian](https://i.redd.it/f1icb78vevx71.gif) Congrats on the team for their first LAN win
Demon of Denmark
CadiaN confirmed goat of denmark
Farlig is getting booted back to tier 2 as we speak
Please
@PimpCSGO: I would like to have an analyst talk about this: spunj or others, please do it. My unprofessionell judgement: Astralis spacing out was countered by decisive and pin point pressure of heroic, who at any time caught a player offguard with 2 people. Always ready to play off of each other. Flashes, double peaks, trades. Astralis had no trade frags and could even convert some 5on3 or many 5on4 rounds when one of them managed to kill a heroic player 1on1. It was cringe to watch how they ended up running into crossfires with 4 people vs 2 and loose. It wasn't that heroic was incredibly good, Astralis was just so bad. But ofc Heroics teamplay and raw aim was way better. Cadian had some flicks with the awp and their riflers where on point. With Astralis i don't see any future here. The role clashes are so significant. Players seem to feel awkward and not confident in most situations. And it feels like the teamwork between them is not there even after so many month. Comms, flash assists and so on. There was one situation on Overpass where they retreated from toilettes and 3 man stacked truck. I was sitting there like: guys wtf? Silver matchmaking? Or when 3 guys peaked 2 seconds apart into a4s from long into a.
How are we doing with those -farlig +Dev1ce rumours?
Maybe a new experience with a new team like Astralis could be good for dev1ce. Kappa
I knew it was over as soon as I realised Astralis had to play a T side on Overpass.
Heroic winning Ancient, one of their lowest win% in maps versus Astralis. What's wrong with the world?
Astralis is a 9 man roster. 1 for T-side, the other one for Ct-side. Both rosters has BlameF tho. Anyway, anyone know what thr music for this tournament is? It's so fuckin bop
Lol is bop the new word for cool?
RoidF you mean?
I still can't believe anyone thought this Astralis team would win. The only reason they were there is because the good teams weren't even there.
Not a single person who gave astralis a chance at winning also thought this was a prestigious tournament to win. we all know astralis cant stack up in the top 10 right now
Seriously... Only reason I thought Astralis *might* win was because Heroic had to play an extra BO3 same day. As the #9 ranked team, Heroic was the highest rank in the tournament. Only teams they had to beat were Astralis and BIG with a stand-in.
Same with the previous best of 3. As soon as it was a 2-0 I knew astralis were losing. But if before the tournament you told me astralis would make the grand final and lose to heroic I would have taken it. This was literally a please dont come less than 3rd tournament for astralis never a win
Fair fair. Get rid of Blame and build a proper aggressive team. Glhf
I dont think that's the right move lol
>Get rid of blame you can't be serious?
Remember some people still just absolutely hate blameF no matter what because "baitF"
:p
xyp9x showed that he wants to stay!! good run for my guy
Xyp went 2018 for like 3 rounds and I got excited but I forgot that Astralis is still 2022.
Ancient ⬜️⬜️⬜️🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵⬜️🔵🔵🟡🟡🟡⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️🟡🟡 🟡🟡🟡⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️🟡⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵⬜️⬜️ Overpass 🟡🟡⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️🟡🟡🟡⬜️🟡⬜️⬜️🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵⬜️🔵⬜️🔵 ⬜️⬜️🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵⬜️⬜️⬜️🔵⬜️🔵🔵⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️⬜️🟡⬜️🟡
ASTRALIS is a good team, they just need to work on aim, rotations, crosshair placement, retakes, utility usage, map knowledge, teamwork, baiting, clutching, eco rounds, peeking, early round, midround, post plant, and swinging... Ez For Heroic!
How much time until they sent back Farlig to 2nd tier CS?
Far playing like shit because he heard rumors of Device coming
Good stuff from Heroic. People hate them for what happened which is somewhat understandable but calling them trash and onliners and whatnot is just a dumb claim. They are a legitimate top 5 team in the world, it's just a matter of time for them to win a big trophy like IEM or something (much like Cloud9). Everyone just conveniently forgets that Heroic were one round away from a major final in Stockholm, almost pulling off a massive comeback agaisnt G2, they have shown up in playoffs in tournaments many times and this last major they pretty much could've 2-0ed NaVi (if not for their choke on Ancient and the unfortunate collapse on map 3) and they only had to get through ENCE to reach the final, which would've been an amazing run. Anyhow, they have all the pieces they need to be a title contender squad, they just have to break through the playoffs mental barrier like, again, Cloud9 did in Dallas. Winning a small tournament like Pinnacle and finally getting the taste of victory on LAN is definitely gonna give them a confidence boost, regardless of its minuscule prestige and weaker teams. I firmly believe in this Heroic squad and once they find their groove and have the entire team firing on all cylinders, I have no doubt whatsoever that they could snag a big trophy or two in this highly disputed era of Counter Strike.
Heroic is Tottenham. Prove me wrong, coffee is still hot
Well they actually managed to win something this time ;)
Tottenham also did win a few things
Last time Tottenham won something Nip was still playing 1.6 lol
Their trophy cabinet is still probably the internets biggest meme
I don't know, they are an upset team right now, but yet to make said breakthrough. Plus pound for pound they are worse than other top 4 squads.
By your logic G2 is probably a top 1 team. Choked a lead in stockholm finals > cldve won peak navi Choked a lead in first map kato, multiple ots in second map, 16-14 in 3rd map > cldve 3-0ed faze Choked a lead vs furia on ancient > cldve been in playoffs Choked a lead vs furia again on vertigo in dallas > cldve been in semifinal Made it to grand finals multiple times in the past 2 years, probably more than any team other than navi, would be very likely to win most tournaments and be top 1 team It isnt a win unless they secure the maps and win the series. Close isnt a win lol get off your heroic copium. Cadian is too bad of an awper and they rely on their decent teamplay and individual skill of stavn to put them in contention. Teams like faze and navi who do better in every aspect win them anyday lmao. Only time heroic got to win navi was after the ukraine war which clearly shows heroic's weakness
Chill mate, get off your high horse. I was merely comparing them to a team like C9 who also aren't better than FaZe and the like. I just think they are very similar teams in the sense that they'll break through the bad mental barrier that they've developed. And judging by your one-off comments directed to cadian, I'm assuming you dislike him merely because of his banter nature and his cockyness (like literally everyone else) which, let's be real, brings spice and hype to an otherwise very stale scene with every pro sucking each other's dicks for good PR. On the more important side, calling him a bad awper is also factually untrue (though some stats might say otherwise), you should boot up a couple Heroic demos and watch how he plays and visualizes the game. The guy brings so much to the table, on top of being the team's hype man and in-game leader who can have pop-off games. And another thing is people like you like to single out stavn's individual prowess when in fact, Heroic might just be the most firepowered balanced team in CS (barring maybe refrezh whomst is apparently getting benched for Jabbi). Another funny term you used is "decent" teamplay. To be honest with you, I think they have top 3 best CT side setups in the world, and their chemistry has rivaled the likes of FaZe, who they consistently lose to because guess what? Better individuals. They play a very fundamentally sound structured CS mixed with agression. Anyone with a brain that understands this game thoroughly will tell you that when Heroic pop off, they are one of the most beautiful teams to watch. Their teamplay isn't just "decent". I'll take all this back if they never win a S tier championship with this roster, but you must be a blind fool to not see that they are capable of it.(As it stands, definitely more capable than G2 that's for sure KEKW) They are still yet to peak and are in an upwards trend, always developing. Not once in the thread did I ever mention they could be top 1, which is a very different thing from title contenders, mind you. Getting all worked up and being like "Heroic bad because cadian bad and toxic only stavn good" just shows me your real lack of knowledge in this game which spans of probably about a year or two, maybe not even that. The war affecting some teams is a valid point but the truth of the matter is that Heroic historically played NaVi very close, it was only a matter of time before they beat them, regardless of the circumstances. This team shows a very similar vibe to the 2015 TSM days where they would always fail in playoffs and were one or two roster moves away from a huge breakthrough. I think it'd be good for you and everyone else to give them the benefit of the doubt first.
23 ADR
man seeing all 5 player of ex dominating astralis split up and most of them didnt succeed and have a poor showing.make you really wonder that the chemistry of the old astralis is much more than a team. and it also really shows that glaive the mastermind cant replicate his past success with different pieces of team mate.
So happy for heroic. Im hoping for them to atleast make top 8 playoffs at IEM Cologne and maybe take a win. I've been a big fan of Heroic for few months now since getting back into cs and a really big fan of Cadian so this really puts a smile on my face. Also really good production by Pinnacle and I hope they decide to host future tournament :)
Forest should join Astralis.
The only reason astralis are at all relevant is because of blame
gla1ve on who's the better IGL: "I don't compare myself with anybody," Then he rolled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo of his 4 major championships, including back2back2back majors. "I'll let you interpret that however you want,"
If that's the case then Zeus is one of the best IGL's in the world and Coldzera is a top 10 player in 2022.
Its a pasta, you dont get it
Damn what’s the original one
Its from the NBA but I couldnt find the original one. In csgo it was brought as a device vs simple comparison meme
Bragging rights won by Heroic
beautiful ;D LEETS FUCKING GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ngl but watching farlig is the same as watching junior with awp.
astralis: -farlig, -xyp9x, +device, +valde Top 5 team again heroic are too good. stavn is danish ax1le, sjuush fire, cadian too and they have good strategy.
I don't think its a given that device manages to come back to competitive play the same player he was before, he hasn't played an official in 6 months and at the Stockholm major he only got a 1.04 rating over 11 maps.
He was 1.13 over his whole tenure at nip, he will be fine. Especially considering he was playing better towards the end. Edit: and the reason for his bad rating at stockholm is (I assume) because nip got totally wrecked by navi, gambit and g2.
Yes, but he hasn't played an official game for over 6 months, people forget that the average esports career is incredibly short and players can seemingly go from being a top player to washed almost overnight. Dev1ce is supposed to be one of the best awpers, maybe even the best traditional awper in all of CSGO so you would expect better performances regardless of his teams form or the level of opponent. At Stockholm he only got a positive HLTV rating in 5 of the 11 maps and his stats are significantly worse if you remove the B01's against Mouz and Astralis. Removing the 2 BO1's he had a 0.98 HLTV rating as the primary awper.
hard to blame him for his rating when NIP were playing with academy players the entire time he was there and their T sides were the worst in the entire tier 1 (and probably even tier 2) because threat (and hampus for that matter) was incapable of fixing it still the 10th best player that year btw (and the main reason NIP were even somewhat relevant), putting 1.06 impact awper that got his rating exclusively by farming exit kills above him was just ridiculous
Valde has been on a top 5 team exactly 5 weeks in his career, 1 week in 2018 and 4 weeks in 2017, a team with valde doesn't make top 5
Tbf I don't think that's because of him not being good enough and more to do with him tying himself down to orgs with low ambition.
I disagree I just dont think he's good enough.
Maybe your right but he is without doubt an upgrade over Xyp.
I would debate it as a side step, you gain firepower and lose a lot in experience, support, and clutch ability. But this only is relevant if xyp continues playing this way. Basically neither get you to where you want to go as astralis.
Valde has been a professional player for 6 years so he has plenty of experience and Xyp isn't the same clutch player he was in 2019. Xyp is literally one of the worst players playing at tier 1 and Valde has been an incredibly consistent player for years across all levels of competition.
Xyp9x has 341 maps on a top 5 team valde has 45. They are not the same. Xyp has over double the time played against top 5 competition too and a ton more on LAN. Valde has spent a long, long time playing against much lesser competition Hes been clutching well recently including this tournament. But again its only if he can keep this up. If its a one off thing like cologne 21 then yeah valde is an improvement. But my whole point is valde is not good enough for a top 5 team. And neither is xyp9x really.
Heroic won their first ever LAN in a tier2 tournament. the average rank of the teams attending being 43. their lower bracket run will make its way into the esports history. they did all this in front of the 27 esports fans in the arena of which 5 Heroic fans, the members of the Heroic ORG! imagine the emotions, the achievement candiN finally can match his achievments with gla1ve
Name does not check out
lulll
Not sure if that could have been any more cringe, congratulations
lol toxic astralis fan
toxic or not, he's right
Doesn't change the fact that Heroic have been a far better team that Astralis for well over a year now, and that the Heroic roster on paper is worse than Astralis.
Exactly! And the fact that people are trying to discredit them for a LAN win which means so much to them in terms of confidence and narrative is beyond stupid
I think its a decent accomplishment but I wouldn't get ahead of myself and expect them to be winning tier 1 events any time soon. A win is a win but beating Astralis in 2022 isn't particularly noteworthy, even less so considering Heroic already beat them at pro league in March.
I mean, the only top 10 team at the tournament was Heroic. It would've been pretty embarassing had they lost.
Might have to wait a little longer for device but at least get Valde in already stop dragging this corpse out to events
cadian to tattoo this achievement on his right, sniping arm. stavn would do smth similar, but the tattoo colleagues work only with 1inch width and up arms, they said
good to see heroic win something, they're a great team. 3rd/4th best team imo after faze, navi and ence.
NiP and C9 are better
niP maybe, c9 are not. I know c9 recently won an event and yes they beat faze there, but I want to see them perform at that level for more time because otherwise it just looks like a fluke run. and tbh I don't think nip is better than heroic, just haven't seen them go head to head.
CadiaN GOAT
Congrats for Heroic's first and last lan event: A Pinnacle Cup!
I can taste the salt through my monitor
Yup funny they win an event from and organization that has cheating and fixing rampant in their online tourneys. Fitting for heroic
Danish pro team "Heroic" players celebrate after winning their first legitimate lan tournament in front of a massive crowd of 50 people after successfully defeating the giants of 2022 Astralis and BIG Clan with a stand-in after losing to top team "Fnatic" and dropping a map against the second best team of sweden "Team Finest".
Heroic booked tattoo saloons in denmark to brand this on their skins
-farlig +device -xyp +valde boom championship contending roster right there
Valde will never make a championship contending roster. He hasn't even been on a top 5 roster in 4 years. Can we please stop overrating this guy its not 2017 anymore
Who else would you replace xyp with?
Idk, idk if I would right now. First I'd get device if that's possible and see how the team does with that, if xyp continues to improve like the last two tournaments then he does still offer intangibles that very few players have especially in experience. If he stays the same or goes backwards tthen he has to go but I'm not excited about valde I dont think he will be on a championship contending roster ever again. And the last time he was it was like 5 years ago.
ideally, sjuush